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Author Topic: 300 dollars..5 hrs..more pain..no help  (Read 7095 times)

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Offline Ron22

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300 dollars..5 hrs..more pain..no help
« on: September 24, 2004, 10:00:25 AM »
hi guys..hss doc no help spent 300 bucks and 5 hrs to stand in a hot x ray office...and then told they can reco me to their pain mgmt program...in three wks...for 450 bucks..and then more for each session.....of couse like the doc..they do not take insurance.. i begged pleaded the nurse when makin the appt...pl pls pls if he's gonna fob me off..skip it..i cannot afford several thou for this...thank god for my local guys..as i am flying next wk..said haven't slept..bad pain...nope we only give meds to surgical patients...what if i didn't have my local guys..thought he might try oxycont..somethin new...so for 3 bills got to spend 3 driving hrs round trip in city traffic.....hadda 12:30 appt..he saw me at 3:30....spent bulk of the time standing in a three chair x ray waiting rm...one tech on duty for 10 peeps....my knee is huge...severe pain from exam....and i would still have to wait three wks to have to shell out another 450......

i' m hurt..in bad pain and facing a diasaster in the office..scraeming vm's as i was expected back...nice huh?..so glad i went to this so called great guy.....got treated like an indigent fool at a city clinic..and 30 bucks for parking..


pls send hugs or pray for me..i cannot believe this

thanks

ronnie
Surgery #1 ACL/LR/Mdl Mesniscus
Surgery #2 Vascular Repair
Surgery#3 ACL/Ltl Mesniscus/MCL
Surgery#4 Vascular Repair
Surgery#5 Maquet/Bone Graft/Screw/LR/ACL
Arthritis/Knee/Hip
Necrosis/Hip
PFS/Chronomalacia
RSD
Vascular Issues
All on Right Leg

Offline Beth_T

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Re: 300 dollars..5 hrs..more pain..no help
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2004, 04:13:10 PM »
Hi Ron

Are you sure you weren't in an NHS office in the UK? - that's terrible treatment  ::)

I'm sorry you didn't get the answers you were hoping for - maybe your local guys can give you a little more help.

Hugs for a better w/end

I've got a 300 mile trip to my home town this w/end and my right knee is the excelator pedal - whoopie!!  (not literally  ;D     ICE ICE ICE

Take care
Monster hugs
Beth x
« Last Edit: September 24, 2004, 04:14:43 PM by Beth_T »
Had a not needed LR op due to a fall
Found out that nerve damage was causing the pain, acupuncture worked - all ok :)

Offline Holly

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Re: 300 dollars..5 hrs..more pain..no help
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2004, 09:46:10 PM »
Ron, my friend:

Is there anything I can do to help?  Can I send you the money for your awful and useless visit to that doctor?  I don't have much...but you sure as h*ll didn't need that!

Let me know what I can do, kiddo.  I know you would do the same for any one of us!

Hugs!

Holly
1998 run over by car;Rt knee lat menisc/med menisc tear, ACL/MCL tear, patella frx, tib frx, femur frx, 4 scopes repr menisc/repr lig/debride pat, open MCL rpr, dbl osteot3/04;MUA,lysis6/04;scope10/04

Offline Teresa_S

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Re: 300 dollars..5 hrs..more pain..no help
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2004, 09:58:18 PM »
Ron, AM So SORRY, but can't say it surprises me as no treatment from renowned specialist does. I think that maybe somehow, unsuspectingly, you, and I and maybe several others on this site, got chosen to TEST, and see how much we could take until we cracked. BUT THEN I am not sure what happens after that, so maybe that is why we just hang in there.Is there no pain management on your ins.plan? I know the limitations of insurance too well. I made a phone call to every office in the state and two others with no help. If I were to be treated like that,I would not pay out additional money for the privilege. I would find somebody else to see, and at least try it.But, If you have a dr. prescribing percocet, ask him to let  you try oxycontin, and use the percocet for breakthrough.pain.Maybe, you can talk him into at least giving you a months worth, and then see how it goes. IT does take at least a week to see if it will work, and it does make you nauseaus, or at least it has for most I know. Most pain meds take a gradual increaseto handle the side effects.It won't hurt to ask, and maybe things will turn out for the better. Does not sound like a very good pain managment practice, if there are no appts, and they don't understand that waiting is unbearable. MOSt have a built in phone message with somebody always on call 24/7 to answer questions, and refill meds, as the whole idea is for the pt. to be able to depend on that pain team to handle their pain. How did you end up with this dr. anyway, he referral? I know as I head towards another weekend I hope that I can grit my teeth and make it through, which is probably similar to you, and the weather here is to be beautiful. Hope I have the guts to at least make it good for my family and get out and do the things that weekends call for, and get the yard ready for fall, and the Halloween decorations in place. SO my hopes are for the best weekend you can honestly hope for. Teresa
On going instrumentation failure, chronic infection,
Arthroscopes Left 11 Right 2, MRSA, L TKR  ,  Revision, LR x5, Medial and lateral meniscus repair, Broken prosthesis
Osteochondral Fracture,untreated 6 mths. Revision new tkr 01-07 awaiting new hip and right knee
R TKR pending

Offline Heather M.

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Re: 300 dollars..5 hrs..more pain..no help
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2004, 11:52:01 PM »
Ron,

If you were so inclined, and were totally and utterly bored with lots of time and an internet connection, you could look up my posts from two years ago.  I hadn't been through the sheer volume of surgeries you had, but I'd done 5 procedures in 10 months and was still worse than when I started.  You have to keep going.  Of course, it's necessary to stop, take a deep breath, rest, and re-evaluate.  But you have to keep pushing in order to find a doctor with the courage to help you.  This one at the HSS obviously wasn't the guy.  So you'll have to move on.  Instead of continuing to rely on your well-intentioned and wonderful GP, I would strongly urge you to go to a pain management specialist.  PM is so much more than the meds.  It's titrating different levels, it's using complementary meds like neurontin and amytriptylline and even tylenol.  It's acupuncture, myo-fascial release, trigger point injections (unpleasant but SOOOOO helpful), and specialized physical therapy.  It's a doctor who understands utterly the domino effect on the rest of your body when your knee is out of whack.  There are sub-specialties within pain management that I think can be very helpful in your case, like Physical Medicine and Rehabilitaion (PM&R).  That's what my PM doctor specializes in, and their sole job is to keep the patient in one piece in the face of chronic musculo-skeletal conditions that orthopedic surgeons can't or won't help.  Their job is to pick up the pieces, and to work hard to achieve a quality of life that the patient was lacking before they heard of PM&R.

So I urge you to keep the PM appointment, but before you pay out the $$ find out what the specialty is of the doctor in question.  An anesthesiologist with a PM background can be helpful, but they don't have the training in human anatomy and musculo-skeletal structures that a PM&R doctor (aka physiatrist) has.  I know the right doctor can get you back to some kind of equilibrium, where things are not getting worse and hopefully getting better.  Your sleep is the top priority, and a PM&R doctor will focus on that first.

Once your situation is stabilized and you're not reeling from exhaustion and collapsing from pain, then you can calmly and rationally start the search for an OS.  Holly has one that is by all accounts a fantastic surgeon--and a courageous one, who took on her case and did a major surgery even though she'd had years of failed treatments.  That's the kind of doctor you need--one who has the courage to try and the knowledge to come up with a plan.  One who won't be scared away by your multiple surgeries.  And if your knee and hip need replacing, this surgeon will do it.  There's no reason to suffer now if there is help.

Finally, a PM doctor with a PM&R background can assess you for autonomic nerve damage.  RSD is often thrown out there when the OS has no idea what to do next.  It may be part of your problem, but if it is not then it's a red herring.  A good PM doctor will usually have a large % of patients who actually do have RSD, and will be able to tell the difference.  About a year ago I saw a 70 year old top OS in Phoenix, a man who gets the complicated referral cases and does the big open surgeries to correct PFS.  This man was a knee specialist and by all accounts a great surgeon with very good diagnostic skills.  He looked at my surgical history (not my knee, mind you) and my x-rays and said "You have to get nerve blocks, I think you have RSD.  Your pain is way out of proportion to the amount of damage I see in the x-ray and MRI.  I've seen much worse cases."  He said I had phantom pain and RSD.  He was so wrong that my PM doctor practically stormed out of my next appointment with her to call the OS and give him a piece of her mind.  What this big, hotshot doctor was really saying was "I don't want to take on your case.  Goodbye."  Fair enough--I don't want him to be my surgeon if he feels that way.  

So you've got to look at your most recent appointment in that light, okay?  It's hard, I know.  It's hard to keep getting knocked down and getting back up again.  But it is necessary.  You can't keep going on pecocet prescribed by a well-meaning GP and 2 hours of sleep a day.  Certainly your GP should be applauded for having the courage to help you where no one else has.  But unless he has specialized training in pain management, you would be better off seeing someone else who is better equipped to help.  Percocet, like Teresa said, is ideal for breakthrough pain, but it is not the best choice for primary medication for chronic, long-term issues.  Oxycontin is.  BTW, Oxycontin is just percocet in a different formulation, intended for slow release.  So it's not really that you would be changing meds, just the forumulations.  Once the worst of the pain is under control, and you can sleep again, your life will get better.  I promise.  So you have to be strong for just a little while longer, long enough to find a PM doctor who has a physical medicine and rehabilitation background.  

Heather
Scope #1: LR, part. menisectomy w/cyst, chondroplasty
#2-#5: Lysis of adhesions/scar tissue, AIR, patellar tendon debridement, infections, MUA, insufflation
#6: IT band release / Z-Plasty, synovectomy, LOA/AIR, chondroplasty
2006 Arthrofibrosis, patella baja
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Offline Ron22

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Re: 300 dollars..5 hrs..more pain..no help
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2004, 12:12:18 AM »
thank you heather teresa and holly..and anyone i've forgotten..haven't been this brain dead since sr. week..lol..need to reply in detail but can't now as i fear i may get too angry or sad at this whole deal and i'm struggling mightily to wrap things up so i can leave in a coupla hrs...

u guys are the best

god bless u..do not know hjow i can finish this work..but i have to..i will w/b from home with ice and meds and comfy clothes ensconsced..

hugs

ronnie
Surgery #1 ACL/LR/Mdl Mesniscus
Surgery #2 Vascular Repair
Surgery#3 ACL/Ltl Mesniscus/MCL
Surgery#4 Vascular Repair
Surgery#5 Maquet/Bone Graft/Screw/LR/ACL
Arthritis/Knee/Hip
Necrosis/Hip
PFS/Chronomalacia
RSD
Vascular Issues
All on Right Leg

Offline Sharon

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Re: 300 dollars..5 hrs..more pain..no help
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2004, 08:32:19 AM »
Ron,

I can't believe you had to deal with that at HSS! I know what you mean about the x-ray dept there though. I only had x-rays there once and it wasn't anywhere near as long as you had to wait but I did wait close to an hour...and there were only 4 or 5 people ahead of me. It is also terrible that the PM dept there doesn't accept insurance. I've been told that they are wonderful but the amount of money that they charge is ridiculous! When my old OS recommended me to a PM doctor he told me that they are really great there but due to the fact that I didn't want to have to drive an hour and a half into the city everytime I had a PM appt and they didn't accept my insurance, I went to a doc who's alot closer to me and he's great. Why pay all that money when I can just pay a $12 copay each visit, you know? You just have to do some research and maybe talk to your local docs and see who they recommend because I think right now a good PM doctor is really important for you. I'd recommend mine but I don't think you want to drive out to Long Island (Smithtown) for appts. Anyway, you take care of yourself and just keep pushing and you'll find a good OS who can help you as well as a good PM doc who can hopefully get you some relief from the pain so you can at least get some more sleep which is so important.

(((Hugs)))
Sharon
Left knee:
LR-5/99 & 9/01
Distal realignment and LR 7/02
TTT revision 6/03
screw removal/MUA 10/03
d/x with severe patella baja
7/05 patellar tendon replacement w/piece of quad tendon
4/07 OATS

Offline Ron22

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Re: 300 dollars..5 hrs..more pain..no help
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2004, 02:37:12 PM »
thanks all of u......holly.heather...teresa..sorry if i gorget anyone and i know i did...i took some naps last nite..and am lookig forward to a great wkend...will attend my first rugby match of my old mates as honorary capt.....it's time i know i'll never play again the game i love so much that is so much a part of who i am and how i express myself.....god bless u guys..u have offered so much support...so much of your won very painful and intimate details to help me..with u as hard as all of this has been....i know i can always come here for a hug or to vent..of just to share..thank u from deep in my heart and soul...

have a great weekend and hope your knees are behaving..

affectionately and greatfully

ronnie


i only wish we could have a knee geeks event where soe of us who were so inclined could met to share and hug in person only we know how hard this all can be..i would be more than willing to organize such a thing...but i realize most of u feel  much safer simply sharing via the board
 
Surgery #1 ACL/LR/Mdl Mesniscus
Surgery #2 Vascular Repair
Surgery#3 ACL/Ltl Mesniscus/MCL
Surgery#4 Vascular Repair
Surgery#5 Maquet/Bone Graft/Screw/LR/ACL
Arthritis/Knee/Hip
Necrosis/Hip
PFS/Chronomalacia
RSD
Vascular Issues
All on Right Leg

Offline Nettan

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Re: 300 dollars..5 hrs..more pain..no help
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2004, 04:07:14 PM »
Hey Man !!

You are truly a kind person careing for everyone else, though your own problems. I really appriciate getting mail and answers from you. Sending you a big weekend hug !!! HEY MAN SUN STILL SHINES ON ME;FOR REAL TODAY !!

HAVE A PAINLESS WEEKEND !!

Hugs nettan  ::)
Surgery 6 times left knee torn meniscus, RSDS,chondromalacia, nervdamage cause constant nervpain,chronic inflamm.
Spinaldamage wheeler 100%.
Right knee damaged aug-06, use brace surgery 4/9-07.LCL tear.

Offline Ron22

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Re: 300 dollars..5 hrs..more pain..no help
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2004, 10:02:10 PM »
hey man..thanks nettan u are the bomb..i was telling a friend about u this morning when she tried to feel sorry for me..no way i have too much to be thankful for....u are living proof that a physical challenge does not necessarily limit one to a bitter isolated life..

thanks for being there always with a kind and inspiring word..

your friend

ronnie
Surgery #1 ACL/LR/Mdl Mesniscus
Surgery #2 Vascular Repair
Surgery#3 ACL/Ltl Mesniscus/MCL
Surgery#4 Vascular Repair
Surgery#5 Maquet/Bone Graft/Screw/LR/ACL
Arthritis/Knee/Hip
Necrosis/Hip
PFS/Chronomalacia
RSD
Vascular Issues
All on Right Leg

Offline Nettan

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Re: 300 dollars..5 hrs..more pain..no help
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2004, 10:47:18 PM »
Hey Man !!

Thank you...try to do my best out of everything although sometimes is difficult. I feel better when beeing happy and I also laugh always. I'm that kind of person who can f.i. push the second botton on the bus (it's a botton if you need help off the bus) only cause the signal is so funny though I don't need the help !!!.Everything which makes me laugh is something I love. One of my assistants hate Sean Paul, my son's favourite so the days when she come I always sing a bite of one of his songs for her. But belivee me she always gives back on me. You are a nice friend !!

Hugs and sunny smiles nettan  ::)

Ps. HEY MAN SUN SHINES ON ME IN MY HEART !!!

It's eve around 21.00 and DARK
Surgery 6 times left knee torn meniscus, RSDS,chondromalacia, nervdamage cause constant nervpain,chronic inflamm.
Spinaldamage wheeler 100%.
Right knee damaged aug-06, use brace surgery 4/9-07.LCL tear.

Offline BuffettBarbie

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Re: 300 dollars..5 hrs..more pain..no help
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2004, 03:48:08 AM »
Nettan!  

You are an inspiration to all of us!  I love reading your posts- you are so full of life and fun!  You can take any bad situation and turn it into something funny!  You are truly a wonderful person!

Ron!

I hope you're feeling better!  Instead of shelling out $450 for bad medical advice, you should spend it at a day spa!  You need a massage!  Aromatherapy!  Get a wrap!  You will probably feel much better doing that instead!  And you'll still have a couple bucks left for cocktails!

Many hugs to you both!

Chris :)
Lateral Release- Left Knee (Feb 2001)
Lateral Release- Right Knee (April 2001)
Fulkerson's TTO, Lateral Release, & Scope- Right Knee (20 Aug 2004)

Offline Nettan

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Re: 300 dollars..5 hrs..more pain..no help
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2004, 06:19:22 PM »
Hey Chris !!

Thanks for your kind words, makes me SMILE !!
Well ,try to stay positive.
We have another sunny day here so life is getting better. 8)

Hugs nettan  ::)
Surgery 6 times left knee torn meniscus, RSDS,chondromalacia, nervdamage cause constant nervpain,chronic inflamm.
Spinaldamage wheeler 100%.
Right knee damaged aug-06, use brace surgery 4/9-07.LCL tear.

Offline Teresa_S

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Re: 300 dollars..5 hrs..more pain..no help
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2004, 07:27:51 AM »
Hey Ron, YOU know sometimes I start out reading posts by those of us that are ranting and raving, and temporarily feeling sorry for ourselves, but somewhere in the posts I will find a thread or word, or even a wish for somebody else that lets me know WE ALL ARE STILL HANGING IN THERE AND THINKING OF OTHERS LETS US FEEL BETTER OURSELVES> IF I would find one that didn't have some sprinkle of hope, or even disgust for all the crap we put up with, that lets us laugh, I would really worry. How was the weekend? Teresa
On going instrumentation failure, chronic infection,
Arthroscopes Left 11 Right 2, MRSA, L TKR  ,  Revision, LR x5, Medial and lateral meniscus repair, Broken prosthesis
Osteochondral Fracture,untreated 6 mths. Revision new tkr 01-07 awaiting new hip and right knee
R TKR pending

Offline Ron22

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Re: 300 dollars..5 hrs..more pain..no help
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2004, 06:14:06 PM »
thanks t..nettan..chris..and... chris i have been pondering a good massage..an old trapezius injury leaves my rt hand numb most of the time..the old trainers would call em stingers and shove us back out there..had a good full wkend..saw my old mates play...saw the good rats again and got onstage of a coupla covers...and took the client to the giants game yesterday and closed the deal finally!!!!..sleep is still hard to get but i am content that i am trying my hardest to live fully as if this knee gar-bage wasn't even there...

thanks to everyone...and heather yes i anm looking into local pmgmt sols here..that are covered

cheers everyone

hope your knees are behaving

ronnie  
Surgery #1 ACL/LR/Mdl Mesniscus
Surgery #2 Vascular Repair
Surgery#3 ACL/Ltl Mesniscus/MCL
Surgery#4 Vascular Repair
Surgery#5 Maquet/Bone Graft/Screw/LR/ACL
Arthritis/Knee/Hip
Necrosis/Hip
PFS/Chronomalacia
RSD
Vascular Issues
All on Right Leg















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