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Author Topic: Knee turns hot! over 38 celcius  (Read 353 times)

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Offline Celina1989

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Knee turns hot! over 38 celcius
« on: March 28, 2022, 02:09:36 PM »
I am currently waiting for surgery (nr 5) to repair my bone and cartilage defect (Osteochondritis dissecans). My last surgery was 2 years ago and I got no inflammation. My knee turns warm / hot for almost a year now. It happens after activity (which I can understand by meaning of friction) but it also happens after a time of inactivity (sleep/ sitting without moving). I asked my PT (local PT not my knee rehab PT) but he doesn't know why this happens. Hottest temperature is 38.3 c, it looks like when the outside temperature is higher my knee gets hotter too. Can anybody explain this?

Offline SuspectDevice

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Re: Knee turns hot! over 38 celcius
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2022, 01:56:02 AM »
Google everything by Dr Scott Dye on loss of tissue homeostasis and Richard Bedards Saving My Knees book.

Their info was the key to solving my dual knee pain/hot/burning/discolouration/stiffness.  Surgery would have made it worse.

My main problem was chronic inflammation of the synovial lining for 5+ years.  Not one specialist diagnosed it, even when I suggested it.  And PTs were useless - in fact their exercise protocols made it worse - as were a whole raft of other witch doctors (e.g. kinesiologist).
L Medial menisectomy 2012
PFPS both knees 2012-2017
Pre-CRPS diagnosed 2014 (I think this was crap)
2017 - 90+% cured via Dr Dye's research
2018 - MTB crash, busted collarbone & ribs - easy compared to knees!
2021 - ride 3x/week, swim 2x/week, gym 2x/week, short runs 2x/week, back to short races

Offline Brandon123

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Re: Knee turns hot! over 38 celcius
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2022, 01:06:16 PM »
Celina, are you sure you have no inflammation in the knee? A red and hot knee is typically a result of some sort of inflammatory response, due to everything from cartilage defects to overuse/overload. I'm not talking now about severe inflammation with swelling and fluid etc. Just hottness and redness. I.e. the type of inflammation @Suspect is talking about (and I have the same experience as him with the specialists and PTs). If not inflammation, it could also be (at least I have been told) nerve related from the ongoing trauma of the knee, e.g. mild early CRPS. But I still think inflammation is much more likely.
RK sharp pain while running, diagnosis chondromalacia patellae 6/09
RK arthroscopic chondroplasty 9/09
RK rehab, recovery, 90% normal, started running again -> back to square one 5/15
RK diagnosis patellofemoral arthritis + LK diagnosis chondromalacia patellae 8/15 -> conservative treatment

Offline Celina1989

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Re: Knee turns hot! over 38 celcius
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2022, 06:55:34 AM »
Thank you both for your replies SuspectDevice and Brandon123. I think the loss of tissue homeostasis is definetly the case! Well the first thing dr Dye says is that is can be related to damage to the knee. I got a pretty large osteochondral defect that is aggravating my knee all the time. I think my priority is to heal my knee and to see if it recovers then over time or if I need to modify again to achieve normal tissue homeostasis. My PT actually said something related to this with that my knee is "programmed wrong" now. I think he got pretty close but it made me think that I needed to cool less which hurts even worse. So at least I know the icing isn't making anything worse. I had two MRI that didn't show any inflammation. It kinda looks like temporary inflammation, it comes and goes and the knee is red, warm and more sore then during the lets say non-inflammatory period.

I am still a bit confused that it reacts in rest. Might it be that it then got the time to react on the aggravation from earlier that day? It is both a blessing and a curse that my pain often has a delay. I can do activities but afterwards I will feel that I did too much so it is hard to know your limit. Well I learned over time for daily activities.

For who is interested I added my damage report, I think it is really cool they made something like this.


Offline Brandon123

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Re: Knee turns hot! over 38 celcius
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2022, 05:58:36 PM »
I got a pretty large osteochondral defect that is aggravating my knee all the time.

I think this is the cause of the continuous irritation/inflammation. I have had a cartilage defect for many years causing the same symptoms (warm, red, extra sore etc) without any swelling or inflammation visible on MRI.

For who is interested I added my damage report, I think it is really cool they made something like this.

Cool! :)
RK sharp pain while running, diagnosis chondromalacia patellae 6/09
RK arthroscopic chondroplasty 9/09
RK rehab, recovery, 90% normal, started running again -> back to square one 5/15
RK diagnosis patellofemoral arthritis + LK diagnosis chondromalacia patellae 8/15 -> conservative treatment

Offline Celina1989

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Re: Knee turns hot! over 38 celcius
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2022, 04:18:17 PM »
Thank you for replying. It is very nice for me to finally find someone who has experienced the same. After you had chondroplasty, did the loss of tissue homeostasis fade away on its own or did you need to do something extra for it?

Offline SuspectDevice

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Re: Knee turns hot! over 38 celcius
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2022, 10:24:11 PM »
Thank you both for your replies SuspectDevice and Brandon123. I think the loss of tissue homeostasis is definetly the case! Well the first thing dr Dye says is that is can be related to damage to the knee. I got a pretty large osteochondral defect that is aggravating my knee all the time. I think my priority is to heal my knee and to see if it recovers then over time or if I need to modify again to achieve normal tissue homeostasis. My PT actually said something related to this with that my knee is "programmed wrong" now. I think he got pretty close but it made me think that I needed to cool less which hurts even worse. So at least I know the icing isn't making anything worse. I had two MRI that didn't show any inflammation. It kinda looks like temporary inflammation, it comes and goes and the knee is red, warm and more sore then during the lets say non-inflammatory period.

I am still a bit confused that it reacts in rest. Might it be that it then got the time to react on the aggravation from earlier that day? It is both a blessing and a curse that my pain often has a delay. I can do activities but afterwards I will feel that I did too much so it is hard to know your limit. Well I learned over time for daily activities.

For who is interested I added my damage report, I think it is really cool they made something like this.

Interestingly, I have damage in that same area (left knee), but that was due to continuing to cycle hard for a month with a torn medial meniscus which chaffed that area on my femur.  Then I had my meniscus trimmed and so started 6+ years of dual-knee Hell.

I think I was actually on the way to dual-knee Hell before my meniscus tore due to quite severe chondromalacia and lots of intense triathlon training.  And I agree with you & Dr Dye - I think this damage which I'd lived with on and off for 35+ years eventually caused a loss of tissue homeostasis.

And like you, my flare-ups were often delayed so it was very hard to tell what caused them.

But I've had a massive improvement since the loss of homeostasis started in about June 2012 and am now back to triathlons (albeit at a much more relaxed level).  It required getting on top of the chronic inflammation with 5-6mths on Celebrex, combined with a lot of trial and error and gradual progression with core/hip/glute/calf/balance (NOT QUAD!) strengthening.  This also saw a lot of improvement in my chondromalacia which hardly exists any more.  However, the chaffed area on my femur can still flare a little so I have to watch that.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2022, 10:25:51 PM by SuspectDevice »
L Medial menisectomy 2012
PFPS both knees 2012-2017
Pre-CRPS diagnosed 2014 (I think this was crap)
2017 - 90+% cured via Dr Dye's research
2018 - MTB crash, busted collarbone & ribs - easy compared to knees!
2021 - ride 3x/week, swim 2x/week, gym 2x/week, short runs 2x/week, back to short races

Offline Celina1989

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Re: Knee turns hot! over 38 celcius
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2022, 11:30:08 AM »
wow the idea that this knee needs another 5 years of recovery is very scary.
After 4,5 years I really feel that I want a normal life again, just one more surgery and recovery please.
I really hope that after recovery from this surgery my knee turns back to normal.
My damage is maybe 5 years and Im not a sporter so just hoping it will recover faster.
You had a long recovery but glad you were able to go back to the Triathlons.
 
Why is it not allowed to do quad strengthening?

I read that the reaction from overuse (outside the envelop of function) can be delayed by 24 hours. I had physio/fitness yesterday and my knee is sore and hot now (14 h later). Did your knee often react to earlier activity at the moment you took rest as well?

Thanks for all the experiences, information and answers  :)
« Last Edit: April 08, 2022, 11:33:50 AM by Celina1989 »

Offline SuspectDevice

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Re: Knee turns hot! over 38 celcius
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2022, 09:40:20 PM »
wow the idea that this knee needs another 5 years of recovery is very scary.
After 4,5 years I really feel that I want a normal life again, just one more surgery and recovery please.
I really hope that after recovery from this surgery my knee turns back to normal.
My damage is maybe 5 years and Im not a sporter so just hoping it will recover faster.
You had a long recovery but glad you were able to go back to the Triathlons.
 
Why is it not allowed to do quad strengthening?

I read that the reaction from overuse (outside the envelop of function) can be delayed by 24 hours. I had physio/fitness yesterday and my knee is sore and hot now (14 h later). Did your knee often react to earlier activity at the moment you took rest as well?

Thanks for all the experiences, information and answers  :)

Quad strengthening exercises (e.g. squats) would over-load my knees and make them worse.  The notion that I needed to strengthen my quads was ridiculous anyway as I cycled up to 250kms per week.  How any 'expert' could think weak quads were the problem is beyond me.  In fact, muscle imbalance was a more likely problem (i.e. quads too strong relative to hips/glutes etc).

Yes, my knees often had delayed pain after activity.  Sometimes they felt not so bad during activity, but I'd pay for it afterwards.  That is very typical of the loss of tissue homeostasis problem.

The 'just one more surgery' situation is the thing my local OS warned me about.....which is rare among OS's who mostly think surgery is the answer to everything.

However, I did not have Osteochondritis Dissecans, so your situation is different to mine.  If you have a loose piece of bone floating around in your knee, then yes, I can understand why they'd want to remove that.
L Medial menisectomy 2012
PFPS both knees 2012-2017
Pre-CRPS diagnosed 2014 (I think this was crap)
2017 - 90+% cured via Dr Dye's research
2018 - MTB crash, busted collarbone & ribs - easy compared to knees!
2021 - ride 3x/week, swim 2x/week, gym 2x/week, short runs 2x/week, back to short races

Offline Celina1989

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Re: Knee turns hot! over 38 celcius
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2022, 01:08:40 PM »
I quit doing squats and lunges some time ago and at the moment for my quads I only do the leg extension machine. Until a month ago I did the leg press as well but I think it is better to stop with this machine until after surgery because it is slightly painful while using it. My pt always first focusses on the hips and glutes before doing squats anyway. But maybe that is also because many hip and glutes exercises are NWB.

My surgeon is definetly very careful. I really wanted a scope last may when my pain got worse and injection / rest / pt didn't help and it was unclear what was going on but he refused. Im glad he is careful but if he did back then I would have already have had the surgery I am currently waiting for. This Episealer surgery for my OCD lesion is definetly necessary but it should be the last one (till im old and need TKR anyway xD). 















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