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You could try Claire Robertson at Wimbledon Clinics (Parkside hospital). A physio but more a diagnostician, but recognised for her knowledge around PFS https://clairepatella.com/Nick Wirth is also a really good physio, this is his clinic (Sutton/Woking). Extremely experienced and knowledgeablehttps://msophysio.com/msk-physiotherapy/?gclid=CjwKCAjwx8iIBhBwEiwA2quaqylKHkBY8gGQwfkOSuYJURFigYyMp6bwYvRkLjI_6mJvaDW-hQa7nRoCiAQQAvD_BwEBoth private, Nick covered by private insurance, Claire self pay only (around £200 for initial assessment)Depends what you’re looking for. Presumably you’ve tried knee specialists before? Don’t know of any doctors, but you could try a sports physician (not a surgeon if there’s nothing damaged to fix)You can try the forum specialist database too, just filter on physio / non surgeon optionshttps://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEnotes/specialists
I followed the Dr Dye protocol without seeing anyone other than my local doctor, just figured it out from Dye's online videos/papers.I took a summary of all I'd been through, what others had said, what I'd tried, what Dr Dye suggests (long term anti-inflams & staying within your envelope of function, then gradually, very carefully expanding it) to my Dr and he agreed it was worth a try. And it worked (though not in a simple linear way - still many ups and downs).He was concerned about the anti-inflams, but we did liver & kidney function tests along the way and all good.There is also a woman who works with Doug Kelsey in the US. They both follow Dye-type protocols and she was offering online consultations. Can't recall her name though, you might be able to track her down on the internet.My main issue with all this is that there is no clear recipe. The Dr Dye approach is a philosophy to follow which definitely works, but within that, everyone is different so there is much trial and error to work out what you can do not to exceed your envelope. The anti-inflams for me however were the key to making progress. From there, my own experimentation with different excercises could proceed.Recently, I feel taking collagen powder every morning is also helping me improve further.
Quote from: SuspectDevice on August 17, 2021, 10:23:00 PMI followed the Dr Dye protocol without seeing anyone other than my local doctor, just figured it out from Dye's online videos/papers.I took a summary of all I'd been through, what others had said, what I'd tried, what Dr Dye suggests (long term anti-inflams & staying within your envelope of function, then gradually, very carefully expanding it) to my Dr and he agreed it was worth a try. And it worked (though not in a simple linear way - still many ups and downs).He was concerned about the anti-inflams, but we did liver & kidney function tests along the way and all good.There is also a woman who works with Doug Kelsey in the US. They both follow Dye-type protocols and she was offering online consultations. Can't recall her name though, you might be able to track her down on the internet.My main issue with all this is that there is no clear recipe. The Dr Dye approach is a philosophy to follow which definitely works, but within that, everyone is different so there is much trial and error to work out what you can do not to exceed your envelope. The anti-inflams for me however were the key to making progress. From there, my own experimentation with different excercises could proceed.Recently, I feel taking collagen powder every morning is also helping me improve further.Problem I'm having is getting a clear idea of what my 'envelope of function' is. When even walking leads to pain, bloody hard to know what limits to work in. The Celebrex did seem to do wonders last week and I'm carrying on taking one a day (checking blood pressure weekly) but the pain does seem to have crept back. I use a TENS machine to help with the pain in the afternoon/evening as I don't want to take anything other than the celebrex.As I am office based I think the office chair may be causing my knees to flare up.It's pretty much my 12 month anniversary of having this chronic pain and I still feel like I'm banging my head into a brick wall trying to find a way out.
Quote from: react2resist on August 18, 2021, 04:14:42 PMQuote from: SuspectDevice on August 17, 2021, 10:23:00 PMI followed the Dr Dye protocol without seeing anyone other than my local doctor, just figured it out from Dye's online videos/papers.I took a summary of all I'd been through, what others had said, what I'd tried, what Dr Dye suggests (long term anti-inflams & staying within your envelope of function, then gradually, very carefully expanding it) to my Dr and he agreed it was worth a try. And it worked (though not in a simple linear way - still many ups and downs).He was concerned about the anti-inflams, but we did liver & kidney function tests along the way and all good.There is also a woman who works with Doug Kelsey in the US. They both follow Dye-type protocols and she was offering online consultations. Can't recall her name though, you might be able to track her down on the internet.My main issue with all this is that there is no clear recipe. The Dr Dye approach is a philosophy to follow which definitely works, but within that, everyone is different so there is much trial and error to work out what you can do not to exceed your envelope. The anti-inflams for me however were the key to making progress. From there, my own experimentation with different excercises could proceed.Recently, I feel taking collagen powder every morning is also helping me improve further.Problem I'm having is getting a clear idea of what my 'envelope of function' is. When even walking leads to pain, bloody hard to know what limits to work in. The Celebrex did seem to do wonders last week and I'm carrying on taking one a day (checking blood pressure weekly) but the pain does seem to have crept back. I use a TENS machine to help with the pain in the afternoon/evening as I don't want to take anything other than the celebrex.As I am office based I think the office chair may be causing my knees to flare up.It's pretty much my 12 month anniversary of having this chronic pain and I still feel like I'm banging my head into a brick wall trying to find a way out.Yes I know. I was the same. And I'm not sure anyone else can tell you where your envelope is either. It was years of trial and error for me to work it out, and then some exercises which I'm sure were suspect, but seemed to go ok. I had pain that did not improve hardly at all for maybe 4-5 years, until I got on the Celebrex for 5-6 months, then gradually started to emerge from Hell.How long have you been on Celebrex? It was months for me before I got to a stage where I could feel confident I could do some harder exercise....and then I probably went a bit too hard with things like Sissy Squats. With trial & error however, I found some exercises that were better - deadlifts, kettlebell swings, crab walk with band around ankles.Walking also hurt me for years (though my knees basically hurt all my waking hours anyway), but I persisted with my slow flat 15-20min walks most mornings. And my swimming with ankles strapped & pull buoy helped keep some aerobic fitness & sanity.The TENS machine was also a Godsend for me. 45mins many evenings with legs up on the couch.I too am office based and as Vickster says, I put a box under my desk so could sit with legs straight. I could not really sit with knees bent anywhere.It's a bloody hard long road, but you can beat it. The fact that have an idea of what it is likely to be early (i.e. synovitis) puts you years ahead of me.
Have you tried proper physio led hydrotherapy, rather than trying to strengthen with weights?Works for me. Once you have a programme, you can just go to pool on own.Whereabouts in London are you actually based? I can only suggest places SW, not much use if you’re in North East!
Quote from: SuspectDevice on August 18, 2021, 09:58:11 PMQuote from: react2resist on August 18, 2021, 04:14:42 PMQuote from: SuspectDevice on August 17, 2021, 10:23:00 PMI followed the Dr Dye protocol without seeing anyone other than my local doctor, just figured it out from Dye's online videos/papers.I took a summary of all I'd been through, what others had said, what I'd tried, what Dr Dye suggests (long term anti-inflams & staying within your envelope of function, then gradually, very carefully expanding it) to my Dr and he agreed it was worth a try. And it worked (though not in a simple linear way - still many ups and downs).He was concerned about the anti-inflams, but we did liver & kidney function tests along the way and all good.There is also a woman who works with Doug Kelsey in the US. They both follow Dye-type protocols and she was offering online consultations. Can't recall her name though, you might be able to track her down on the internet.My main issue with all this is that there is no clear recipe. The Dr Dye approach is a philosophy to follow which definitely works, but within that, everyone is different so there is much trial and error to work out what you can do not to exceed your envelope. The anti-inflams for me however were the key to making progress. From there, my own experimentation with different excercises could proceed.Recently, I feel taking collagen powder every morning is also helping me improve further.Problem I'm having is getting a clear idea of what my 'envelope of function' is. When even walking leads to pain, bloody hard to know what limits to work in. The Celebrex did seem to do wonders last week and I'm carrying on taking one a day (checking blood pressure weekly) but the pain does seem to have crept back. I use a TENS machine to help with the pain in the afternoon/evening as I don't want to take anything other than the celebrex.As I am office based I think the office chair may be causing my knees to flare up.It's pretty much my 12 month anniversary of having this chronic pain and I still feel like I'm banging my head into a brick wall trying to find a way out.Yes I know. I was the same. And I'm not sure anyone else can tell you where your envelope is either. It was years of trial and error for me to work it out, and then some exercises which I'm sure were suspect, but seemed to go ok. I had pain that did not improve hardly at all for maybe 4-5 years, until I got on the Celebrex for 5-6 months, then gradually started to emerge from Hell.How long have you been on Celebrex? It was months for me before I got to a stage where I could feel confident I could do some harder exercise....and then I probably went a bit too hard with things like Sissy Squats. With trial & error however, I found some exercises that were better - deadlifts, kettlebell swings, crab walk with band around ankles.Walking also hurt me for years (though my knees basically hurt all my waking hours anyway), but I persisted with my slow flat 15-20min walks most mornings. And my swimming with ankles strapped & pull buoy helped keep some aerobic fitness & sanity.The TENS machine was also a Godsend for me. 45mins many evenings with legs up on the couch.I too am office based and as Vickster says, I put a box under my desk so could sit with legs straight. I could not really sit with knees bent anywhere.It's a bloody hard long road, but you can beat it. The fact that have an idea of what it is likely to be early (i.e. synovitis) puts you years ahead of me.Thank you both Vickster and SuspectDevice. It is strange how reassuring it is to have people willing to give their experiences and advise. It does help when I'm feeling like there's nothing I can do.Regarding Celebrex - I've only been taking it two weeks. I think after this prescription I will switch from 200mg to 2x100mg throughout the day. It has by far given the best results. Naproxen and Ibuprofen are a waste of time.Regarding exercises - I think everyone in the gym must think I'm wondering round like a lost puppy haha. I used to walk in with purpose and hit the solid routine, but now I'm just trying the different machines to see what can offer muscle fatigue without bringing on a lot of pain.Regarding the desk - I have got a block under my desk now to try and keep them straight. I also have a timer to go for regular small walks and have started standing as wellOne question which I've asked physios and never get a straight answer to:Should I exercise and push through the knee pain in order to strengthen? Or is that a complete waste of time and I should address the pain first?Obviously I don't mean thrashing my legs with squats and running. But gentle strengthening that still flares the knees up.
Quote from: react2resist on August 19, 2021, 10:38:49 AMQuote from: SuspectDevice on August 18, 2021, 09:58:11 PMQuote from: react2resist on August 18, 2021, 04:14:42 PMQuote from: SuspectDevice on August 17, 2021, 10:23:00 PMI followed the Dr Dye protocol without seeing anyone other than my local doctor, just figured it out from Dye's online videos/papers.I took a summary of all I'd been through, what others had said, what I'd tried, what Dr Dye suggests (long term anti-inflams & staying within your envelope of function, then gradually, very carefully expanding it) to my Dr and he agreed it was worth a try. And it worked (though not in a simple linear way - still many ups and downs).He was concerned about the anti-inflams, but we did liver & kidney function tests along the way and all good.There is also a woman who works with Doug Kelsey in the US. They both follow Dye-type protocols and she was offering online consultations. Can't recall her name though, you might be able to track her down on the internet.My main issue with all this is that there is no clear recipe. The Dr Dye approach is a philosophy to follow which definitely works, but within that, everyone is different so there is much trial and error to work out what you can do not to exceed your envelope. The anti-inflams for me however were the key to making progress. From there, my own experimentation with different excercises could proceed.Recently, I feel taking collagen powder every morning is also helping me improve further.Problem I'm having is getting a clear idea of what my 'envelope of function' is. When even walking leads to pain, bloody hard to know what limits to work in. The Celebrex did seem to do wonders last week and I'm carrying on taking one a day (checking blood pressure weekly) but the pain does seem to have crept back. I use a TENS machine to help with the pain in the afternoon/evening as I don't want to take anything other than the celebrex.As I am office based I think the office chair may be causing my knees to flare up.It's pretty much my 12 month anniversary of having this chronic pain and I still feel like I'm banging my head into a brick wall trying to find a way out.Yes I know. I was the same. And I'm not sure anyone else can tell you where your envelope is either. It was years of trial and error for me to work it out, and then some exercises which I'm sure were suspect, but seemed to go ok. I had pain that did not improve hardly at all for maybe 4-5 years, until I got on the Celebrex for 5-6 months, then gradually started to emerge from Hell.How long have you been on Celebrex? It was months for me before I got to a stage where I could feel confident I could do some harder exercise....and then I probably went a bit too hard with things like Sissy Squats. With trial & error however, I found some exercises that were better - deadlifts, kettlebell swings, crab walk with band around ankles.Walking also hurt me for years (though my knees basically hurt all my waking hours anyway), but I persisted with my slow flat 15-20min walks most mornings. And my swimming with ankles strapped & pull buoy helped keep some aerobic fitness & sanity.The TENS machine was also a Godsend for me. 45mins many evenings with legs up on the couch.I too am office based and as Vickster says, I put a box under my desk so could sit with legs straight. I could not really sit with knees bent anywhere.It's a bloody hard long road, but you can beat it. The fact that have an idea of what it is likely to be early (i.e. synovitis) puts you years ahead of me.Thank you both Vickster and SuspectDevice. It is strange how reassuring it is to have people willing to give their experiences and advise. It does help when I'm feeling like there's nothing I can do.Regarding Celebrex - I've only been taking it two weeks. I think after this prescription I will switch from 200mg to 2x100mg throughout the day. It has by far given the best results. Naproxen and Ibuprofen are a waste of time.Regarding exercises - I think everyone in the gym must think I'm wondering round like a lost puppy haha. I used to walk in with purpose and hit the solid routine, but now I'm just trying the different machines to see what can offer muscle fatigue without bringing on a lot of pain.Regarding the desk - I have got a block under my desk now to try and keep them straight. I also have a timer to go for regular small walks and have started standing as wellOne question which I've asked physios and never get a straight answer to:Should I exercise and push through the knee pain in order to strengthen? Or is that a complete waste of time and I should address the pain first?Obviously I don't mean thrashing my legs with squats and running. But gentle strengthening that still flares the knees up.2 weeks on Celebrex is nothing. Give it a few months.Yes Ibuprofen was useless for me too. Can't recall if I tried Naproxen. I did try something called Moxicam? which was not much use.Should you push through the pain? All my research & experience says definitely not if what you have is what I had (synovitis). But having said that, after maybe 2 months on Celebrex I did start pushing through the pain somewhat with Sissy Squats etc. However, strangely I found the first few reps were bad, then it improved somewhat. And it did hot give me flare-ups for days after, maybe only a bit the next day which I figured I could cope with. Again, the trial and error thing.Trying to get back to cycling was my biggest problem. After a few months on Celebrex, my knees could cope better with heavy loads/short time (e.g. weights) far better than lighter loads/long time (e.g. cycling, running). That was not Richard Bedards experience, but it was mine. I needed to use weights/strength work to build (not so much quads) but more glutes/core/hammies/balancing muscles before my knees would tolerate cycling again. Before the knee crap started, I used to ride 4-6x/week up to 200kms/week, including really hard 100km time trails. These days, 40kms (1.5-2hrs max) is my limit, but that's OK.
Hi Suspect Device,So for that 2 months before you were able to do sissy squats, kettle bells etc, did you just walk? Or did you compliment it with anything else?
