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Author Topic: Pain After Taping+Miserable Malalignment  (Read 578 times)

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Offline Tuggers1994

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Re: Pain After Taping+Miserable Malalignment
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2020, 01:39:07 PM »
So based on this envelope of function theory my envelope is empty?

I'm trying to build up to being able to do some sort of exercise but it just ends up in my being in so much pain it makes me cry. I thought swimming would be ok but I've tried it a few times now and it's really not ok.

I find scientific papers really hard to understand so if you have any key points you could put in easy to understand English that would be great SuspectDevice. From what I could understand he doesn't advocate being sedentary but I don't really know what else I can do - I need to be able to sleep and work so tend to try and avoid doing things that make the pain unbearable.

If I stand with my knees pointing forward my feet are sticking out at 45-50 so I'm guessing malalignment is most probably my issue and maybe it's just a case of just coping with it for the next few months.

Offline SuspectDevice

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Re: Pain After Taping+Miserable Malalignment
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2020, 08:58:56 PM »
So based on this envelope of function theory my envelope is empty?

I'm trying to build up to being able to do some sort of exercise but it just ends up in my being in so much pain it makes me cry. I thought swimming would be ok but I've tried it a few times now and it's really not ok.

I find scientific papers really hard to understand so if you have any key points you could put in easy to understand English that would be great SuspectDevice. From what I could understand he doesn't advocate being sedentary but I don't really know what else I can do - I need to be able to sleep and work so tend to try and avoid doing things that make the pain unbearable.

If I stand with my knees pointing forward my feet are sticking out at 45-50 so I'm guessing malalignment is most probably my issue and maybe it's just a case of just coping with it for the next few months.

The 'envelope of function' theory is basically about pushing your knees beyond a point they can cope with and recover from normally.

Once you have reached that point, there are biochemical changes in the knee (note - not structural changes) where various inflammatory proteins etc. become dominant and persistent = constant burning/ache/stiffness/fullness sensations.  It is absolutely miserable and feels like all your cartilage has disappeared in a very short time (which of course it has not, but the long-term biochemical changes can definitely accelerate cartilage degeneration).  The inflammation affects the synovial lining of the knee which is the most pain/sensation sensitive part of the knee.

I'm not sure about your feet being at an angle, if that is a mal-alignment problem that would cause pain or not.  There is a theory that many people have various mal-alignment problems, but because they've had them for years, their knees have adapted and they cause no problem.

My experience is that sorting out if you have a 'loss of envelope function' as opposed to something else is as follows:

Loss of envelope seems to have the following features:


it comes on quite suddenly (weeks or months not years) and following some particularly intense knee exercise or in my case after years of hard triathlon, but then really ramping up the training to do long course

Burning/heat/knee discoloration are key symptoms

The pain is not in a very specific location - it is more over much of the front of the knee & medial, but the focus of the pain moves around a lot

It is hard to identify activities which definitely flare the symptoms, and often there is a 1-2 day delay between an activity and worse symptoms

The pain may radiate up into the quad and down below the knee

Swimming also made mine worse, even gentle freestyle kicking.  Hence I did all my swimming with a pull buoy and ankles strapped together so zero kicking.  Mentally, this was great as I was able to maintain some aerobic fitness, get some exercise endorphins but not aggravate the knees

My envelope of function was very low - almost empty.  But I'm a stubborn bastard, so kept trying to get back to some exercise and failing.  The constant pain for years did my mood/personality no favours at all and for me, a long-term course of Celebrex to get on top of the chronic inflammation after 5 years of failing was probably the only option.  I had no ill-effects from Celebrex at all, but some people do.  As my pain levels improved (this took months) I was gradually able to introduce strength training which had another positive effect - but it was in no way a linear progression.  There were still many many many! ups and downs.  There still are.  I'm doing a short triathlon tomorrow and my knees are in a bit of a down phase atm, but I'm locked in  :o

The other route is the Richard Bedards/Paul Ingraham route of massively, massively modifying your lifestyle/activities and very very slowly building back up.  This works of course, but you need to be much more patient than me to do it.  However, I did go for a very slow 15-20min flat walk each morning which helped both mentally & physically. I still do this.  It is not exercise by any means, but it helps loosen things up at the start of the day.

L Medial menisectomy 2012
PFPS both knees 2012-2017
Pre-CRPS diagnosed 2014 (I think this was crap)
2017 - 90+% cured via Dr Dye's research
2018 - MTB crash, busted collarbone & ribs - easy compared to knees!
2020 - ride 3x/week, swim 2x/week, gym 2x/week, aiming to get back to short triathlons

Offline Freya

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Re: Pain After Taping+Miserable Malalignment
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2020, 11:35:25 PM »


This.



I just saw the sports doctor, he wasn't helpful. He looked at the imaging and said nothing was wrong and referred me to a pain management clinic :) He said maybe my nerves were irritated..

I went through that rubbish too.  CPRS diagnosis.

All the experts were wrong.  The problem was chronically inflamed synovial lining (and perhaps other structures in the knees).

I was sent to pain management as well...but the pain specialist didn't find any (nerve-related)problems.

Honestly that's what I'm expecting the pain specialist to tell me too. Either that, or he'll try to inject something that would cause more harm than good.

Offline Freya

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Re: Pain After Taping+Miserable Malalignment
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2020, 11:56:02 PM »



Burning/heat/knee discoloration are key symptoms

The pain is not in a very specific location - it is more over much of the front of the knee & medial, but the focus of the pain moves around a lot

It is hard to identify activities which definitely flare the symptoms, and often there is a 1-2 day delay between an activity and worse symptoms

The pain may radiate up into the quad and down below the knee




Omg it's like you're describing my pain, it's exactly like this!

I've stopped all exercise involving my legs and I'm still always in pain, even basic repetitive side to side movements made me miserable after. Should I start slow after finishing the course of Celebrex? (The doctor before last prescribed me 2 weeks worth) And by slow, do you mean walking?



I hope your knees weren't mad at you after the triathlon!