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Author Topic: Can't sleep, HELP!!!  (Read 2136 times)

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Offline 2soreknees

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Can't sleep, HELP!!!
« on: April 18, 2004, 05:26:00 AM »
OK you guys, instead of reading and replying I need your help this time.  I have grade four lesions under both patellas and my knees hurt most of the time but at night it can be UNBEARABLE.  But it is not just pain.  It feels like there is a burning sensation and they just won't settle down - it's like if I keep moving them they feel better.  Sometimes I have to get up and do laps around the kitchen/living room to get some relief. This is so frustrating because I am so tired at this point.  At times all I can do is cry.  I am on Mobic and can take Darvocet for pain but it doesn't help.  Sometimes if I ice them they will calm down but not always.
Anybody else have this problem???
Tery
2/02 (R)arthro. meniscus tear, microfractures, grade 4 chondro. under patella.
TTT/LR on (L) 3/03. 
11/04 Arthro (R) MF
4/06 (L) clean up and trim back scar tissue from LR
11/06 (R) HTO
8/08 (R) Hardware removalMFR
8/09 L microfactures
12/09 LTKR
11/11 R TKR and last knee surgery!

Offline Zocolo

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Re: Can't sleep, HELP!!!
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2004, 06:17:05 AM »
I don't know too much about lesions, but this helps me sleep sometimes.  I've got a torn meniscus and if I wind up sleeping in a position that makes the knee lock, the pain will wake me up.  So what I do is take a towel and roll it up, and then put it under the knee.  It keeps the knee in a slightly flexed position so that it doesn't lock up and hurt worse.  I don't know if it'll help with the lesions, and it makes ya have to sleep on your back, but it might be worth a shot.  Have you tried heat yet?  Like using a heat pad before bed?

I hope it feels better soon.

Offline sienna

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Re: Can't sleep, HELP!!!
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2004, 10:50:04 AM »
Hi Tery,

Heat might be a good thing to try.  You mentioned having to walk around to get your knees moving.  This is equivalent to warming them up and getting the blood flowing.  So perhaps using some heat pads may offer some relief.

Have you talked with your os about this?  Maybe s/he can suggest something else stronger for the pain and a mild sedative to help you stay asleep.  
Please ask your os or GP for some extrea help.  You can't go on not sleeping.  Good luck with this.

I hope good sleep is coming your way soon.

Take care.  8)
rk posterior meniscus tear. Successfully repaired 10 Sep,03. Now have nerve damage and cps which goes with it.  I want to slap the person who said 'It just takes time....'

Offline emma

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Re: Can't sleep, HELP!!!
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2004, 01:10:08 PM »
Hello 2soreknees

Its just awful when pain doesn't even seem to want to give you a break so that you can get some shut eye!

I'm not sure on your condition "grade four lesions under both patellas" but when you say that "it's like if I keep moving them they feel better" this sounds like me, I'm kept awake at night with my knees and leg pain and I know just how you feel so tired but the pain is tooo much :'(

It this time I am seeing my physio and I think that you really need to get intouch with who is best for you OS or physio??

Heres just a few things that my physio has sugguested to me maybe it will help you sleep :-/  you may want to check it out with your OS/physio first.

Massage, (not the knees) but both calf and quad areas.
Elevate leg even if they are just above your hip, higher if you can??
Ice bath :o :o :o I know!!  You mentioned that ice did calm down the pain - you talk about a burning sensation maybe immersing  both legs under ice cold water would bring much more relive!
I also keep a can of deep FREEZE on my bed side table so when I awake with pain I can get some quick relief!

Also you might already but I sleep (when I do!!) with a pillow between my legs it supports from knee to ankle, this maybe something you should try tonight!!

I really feel for you sweetie and make an appointment soon "monday" so that you can get some of that well derserved sleep!

Well keep us informed hun

Take care Emma :)
Spontaneous dislocations to both kneecaps for 20 years!
Bilateral Arthroscopies - Awaiting Op's Right knee on 23/9/05
Left knee in Jan 06

Offline 2soreknees

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Re: Can't sleep, HELP!!!
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2004, 03:23:13 AM »
Thanks guys!  I'll try heat tonight hopefully it will help.  I have talked to my OS about the pain but he will not give me anything stronger then Darvocet.  I have a prescription for Ambien but I get a really horrible "rebound" effect from it.  Yes I will sleep the night I take it but the next night I don't sleep a wink so I don't take it.  

I'll keep you posted.

Tery
2/02 (R)arthro. meniscus tear, microfractures, grade 4 chondro. under patella.
TTT/LR on (L) 3/03. 
11/04 Arthro (R) MF
4/06 (L) clean up and trim back scar tissue from LR
11/06 (R) HTO
8/08 (R) Hardware removalMFR
8/09 L microfactures
12/09 LTKR
11/11 R TKR and last knee surgery!

Offline Beauzer

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Re: Can't sleep, HELP!!!
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2004, 03:45:34 AM »
I feel your pain Tery, as this is a problem near and dear to my heart (well, I guess near to my knee, actually ::))  Even the little aches and pains are much, much worse at night.  Is your main problem getting to sleep, or staying asleep?  With me, I can't get to sleep, but once asleep, I'm usually OK.

I'll try to relax before going to bed.  I'll take a warm bath or have a nice cup of tea (with honey, which is a natural sedative for some folks).  Warm milk.  I also use my e-stim machine before going to bed.  Sometimes it helps.  Often it doesn't.  :P That's why I'm going to talk to my PCP about chronic pain management.

Good luck,
Danielle
32 - R knee gone to hell
lat. meniscus 94
ACL, chondroplasty 98
Chondroplasty 99
Screw fell out into joint, med. meniscus, microfracture 99
MCL/med. capsule recon, med. meniscus 00
Chondroplasty 04
Chrondroplasty 1/05
OATS 4/05 for OCD lesion
AVN, MFC fracture 10/05

Offline Linds

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Re: Can't sleep, HELP!!!
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2004, 04:41:59 AM »
Hey Terry, have you talked to your doc about trying Amitryptyline. It's a mild anti depresent that is now more often used in Chronic pain and sleep disruption.  I take two 20mgs about 45 minutes before I get into bed and they really do the trick for me.   ::) I actually sleep right through the night instead of waking up everytime I get a pain or ache.  It's been a lifesaver and I can't imagine being without it now.
Just a thought... as pain meds are good, but maybe you need more help getting a normal type sleep.
Hugs and Hope...for a better nights sleep
Linds :)
PS my OS always says that there is no way you can break the pain cycle if you can't get some normal sleep
« Last Edit: April 19, 2004, 04:42:49 AM by Linds »
1997 Scope RK
2002 LR RK
2002 Scope and hematoma evac RK
2004 LR LK
May 06 Fall from Horse, partial ACL tear and meniscus injury, Tibial plateau injury
2007 Scope, Plica Excision and Debride LK
2009/2010- Possibly Ankylosing Spondylitis?

Offline Sharon

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Re: Can't sleep, HELP!!!
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2004, 06:31:01 AM »
Hi Tery,

I agree with what Linds said. I also take amitriptyline before bed and it really does help me to sleep through the night. I take one 10mg every night before bed and that along with vicodin for some pain relief(not complete though)really helps me to be able to sleep better than I was. The pain meds are good but I find that taking them along with the amitriptyline is better.

:)
Sharon
Left knee:
LR-5/99 & 9/01
Distal realignment and LR 7/02
TTT revision 6/03
screw removal/MUA 10/03
d/x with severe patella baja
7/05 patellar tendon replacement w/piece of quad tendon
4/07 OATS

Offline ozzybug

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Re: Can't sleep, HELP!!!
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2004, 03:48:55 PM »
Tery-
I agree about something mild to help you sleep as well as trying some kind of heating pad too.  Everyone has offered some great suggestions.

I would also add that if your OS or your PT might be able to offer you a TENS unit to use at night, it might just be worth a try.  You could set it at a minimal setting and still get the benefit of stimulation to your knees?  I know that my TENS has two sets of wires that I can use 2 electrode pads on each wire, so if needed, I could use it on both knees.

Deffinately put a call into your OS because rest is crucial when the body is trying to heal itsself or trying to cope with pain.  Please let us know what your OS says.

Good luck & best wishes!
Lezlee
« Last Edit: April 19, 2004, 03:49:54 PM by ozzybug »
Rt knee:Meniscal repair 8/03: Repair prev. meniscus repair 10/03;Chondro shave, scar tissue removal 12/03;LR,debridement chondro & scar tissue 04/02/04;TTT done 09/14/04;VMO advancement 04/2005- Does it ever end?

Offline valerieann

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Re: Can't sleep, HELP!!!
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2004, 06:10:55 PM »
Dear Terry

Everyones pain threshold is different.  That said I will tell you what I do.  I put a level teaspoon of turmeric in warm milk with sugar and drink that.  Why it works I don't know, but it is seen as an alternative treatment for arthritis and it has worked for me.  I use this--check it out on the net--because I did not want the problems with pain meds--stomach, etc.

Also, I get into a hot bath and that seems to relax my muscles and therefore the contractions associated with my knee damage and the pain.

If this fails, I take 3 Ibuprofen.  I rub the painful areas and I use olive oil on them.  I think it keeps the area warmer and helps it to relax.

Maybe it is just all in my head, but these things seem to help.

Good Luck with the sleep!

Valerieann
« Last Edit: April 19, 2004, 06:13:04 PM by valerieann »

Offline soccerdoc

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Re: Can't sleep, HELP!!!
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2004, 03:45:58 AM »
Tery,

You have gotten some good suggestions.  I would urge you to talk to the OS about the amitryptaline as it can be particularly effective for pain with a burning quality.  It also enhances the hydrocodone's binding to the receptor site based on it's action on neurotransmitters.  If the amityrityline doesn't work or has unwanted side-effects there are several other medications that can be tried.  Given your rebound response to Ambien it's use should be limited at best.

Jim
L Knee: 1980 medial plication (?);1994 medial menisectomy 'bucket-handle tear; 2000 medial menisectomy w/dx mod-severe osteoarthritis; 2002 debridement w/dx severe osteoarthritis; 2003 HTO and LR.6/2/05  HTO hardware removal and debridement arthroscopy, 2009 L knee arthroscopy great result

Offline 2soreknees

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Re: Can't sleep, HELP!!!
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2004, 04:08:48 AM »
Thanks everyone!

I tried the heat idea last night but it didn't help and I am truly getting desparate.  I will talk to my OS about the amitriptyline...I think my sister might take that for her migraines(?)...I really appreciate all the ideas.  

I know I will feel so much better after a few nights sleep.

Tery
2/02 (R)arthro. meniscus tear, microfractures, grade 4 chondro. under patella.
TTT/LR on (L) 3/03. 
11/04 Arthro (R) MF
4/06 (L) clean up and trim back scar tissue from LR
11/06 (R) HTO
8/08 (R) Hardware removalMFR
8/09 L microfactures
12/09 LTKR
11/11 R TKR and last knee surgery!

Offline maxfactor

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Re: Can't sleep, HELP!!!
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2004, 03:02:23 AM »
Hi Emma. I just found this site today and am shocked by your profile. If I'm reading correctly you have chronic patelar disclocation. Mine started at age 15. Several failed surgeries later I had bilateral patelectomy. I haven't had kneecaps in 22 years!! I'm 42, in chronic pain, taking morphine, and trying to find a doc who can help me. I actually know how you feel! And I think I've finally found someone who knows how I feel. Gotta run. Hope we can speak.

Jane
12 knee surgeries. bilateral patellectomy 22yrs ago. chronic pain, major narcotics. Still looking for help with pain. 42yrs old.

Offline emma

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Re: Can't sleep, HELP!!!
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2004, 03:51:02 PM »
Hello Jane

I was suprised when you had written to me!!
I'm sorry to hear that you are in so much pain you sound really low  :'(

I would love to hear your story and maybe help even if its just knowing that we understand each other! :)

Email soon
Emma  ;)
Spontaneous dislocations to both kneecaps for 20 years!
Bilateral Arthroscopies - Awaiting Op's Right knee on 23/9/05
Left knee in Jan 06















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