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Author Topic: Cause of my kneepain? Advice and experience with arthroscopy?  (Read 532 times)

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Offline Celina1989

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Hello and thanks for reading. Im a 28 yo woman experiencing months of knee pain now. It all started pretty innocent so it seems. I stood up from the chair (dont really twisted) but a sharp pain came tru it and i wasnt able to stand up. Ive had this earlier that day so i thought it would be over soon (that one lasted about 30 min, limped tru the pain). I noticed it the week before a couple of times that week of which i thought that was often compared to times before (not unique tho). But this time it lasted till now really. Pain started on the inner /medial side of my knee but soon spread to the lateral /outer side. Pain gets worst with  exercising especially walking, stairs and baring weight, putting pressureI went to my GP the day after: i was able to do all knee movements except really being able to straighten it. It was only a bit swollen, not warm. Xray was made: tiny loose bone / cartillage fragment. One week later i went to the OS, he injected my knee with anti inflammatoiry which started working after a week. For about 1,5 month it was improving. I started phsysical therapy and they found out my it band was very tense (i think its cause of walking on the crutches in combination with the pain). After a couple of weeks that improved and we tried strengthening exercises. Didnt go well, day after i was in a lot of pain not able to do much. A month after the injection I was able to do a couple of hours of my normal job (being a nurse) but then mostly the sitting part and not that much direct caretaking. Since the end of january its becomming worse. Since 3 weeks im no longer able to do my nursing job and am back to doing a secretary job with my knee up. I notice if i dont put my knee up it starts hurting pretty bad. A couple of weeks ago the injection worked off and im back on crutches atm. Ive had an MRI done and last monday i got the result: nothing conclusive. Little loosefragment (shown at xray as well) and some flattened cartillage much deeper in my knee of which the OS could not connect to my symtpoms. I was really devistated cause I really thought it would show something is wrong. The OS decided to go for an exploratively arthroscopy since my symptoms came back and knee still got some effusion. It is scheduled for March 29.  Today is 2 weeks waiting. The uncertainty is so bad. Not being able to do what you love and not knowing why. I wonder if anybody recognizes my symptoms or got experience with clear MRI and then something found at arthroscopy? I read a little but with having all this bad luck lately I am getting more and more worried.
For now i daily ice it and do some stretching exercises for it and quads. I cycle on my hometrainer for 10 to 15 minutes a day (cycling went fine from the start). Walking longer distances on my crutches. Trying not to overdo it cause i always know afterwards by it giving sharp pains.

Some little background: 8 y ago i had an arthroscopy in the same knee cause of a loose body. Then i had blocking symptoms which i totally dont have now.

Offline Brandon123

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Re: Cause of my kneepain? Advice and experience with arthroscopy?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2018, 10:14:43 AM »
Hi Celina,

Sometimes they find things during an arthroscopy that didn't show up on MRI. You can find several stories about that on this forum. I think it is really important that you give the knee some rest and don't overdo things (including PT).
RK sharp pain while running, diagnosis chondromalacia patellae 6/09
RK arthroscopic chondroplasty 9/09
RK rehab, recovery, 90% normal, started running again -> back to square one 5/15
RK diagnosis patellofemoral arthritis + LK diagnosis chondromalacia patellae 8/15 -> conservative treatment

Offline Celina1989

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Re: Cause of my kneepain? Advice and experience with arthroscopy?
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2018, 06:05:26 PM »
Thank you for taking the effort for reading my very long story. I by now made a shorter more accesable one. Ive read some stories on here indeed. Maybe im just a bit inpatient after this very long time and set backs everytime. I rested for 2 weeks almost doing nothing and regulary iced it. Then went back to my work but did secretary work instead of my nursing job. After the injection slowly build up, ok my company doctor said i had to slow it down so then i did. But now it worked off i am back to only secretary work. Besides some exercises and some householdstuff (like 30 min a day) i kind of do nothing else.

Offline Chiaretta

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Re: Cause of my kneepain? Advice and experience with arthroscopy?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2018, 07:52:22 PM »
Yes, it's definitely possible to find something during arthroscopy after a clear MRI. When I first injured my knee, three MRIs didn't show anything. During arthroscopy it was found I had a complete ACL tear and a torn medial meniscus. Later on, they found I had damaged my posterolateral corner as well, also not seen on MRI. Now, some years later, I have quite extensive cartilage damage, but MRI is still clear.

I know it can be very tough indeed.. being in pain and not knowing why or whether it's going to get any better.. But hopefully, they can find out what's wrong with your knee and you can start working towards recovery!

Offline Celina1989

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Re: Cause of my kneepain? Advice and experience with arthroscopy?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2018, 09:23:25 PM »
Thanks for your support! I hope you are managing.

I hope I got the same: altho MRI was clean Arthroscopy will show something and treatment can be done immidiatly. Its just bad if not since its surgery and it got weeks recoveringtime.
I will know in 1,5 week, waiting is always hard...

The other thing Is what happened to you: waiting to long and have permanent damage.

If my arthrosocpy turns out clean is that a lisence to train as hard and work trough pain?

Offline SuspectDevice

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Re: Cause of my kneepain? Advice and experience with arthroscopy?
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2018, 09:17:22 PM »
I think they've already identified something - small piece of loose bone or cartilage.  That could be the source of your problem.  Or it could be that is part of a larger tear (e.g. if the pain started medial, a torn medial meniscus).  Hopefully the arthroscopy will identify that or something (because MRIs often miss those things).

Once again I just shake my head at this - "I started phsysical therapy and they found out my it band was very tense (i think its cause of walking on the crutches in combination with the pain). After a couple of weeks that improved and we tried strengthening exercises. Didnt go well, day after i was in a lot of pain not able to do much. "

Seriously the whole physio/PT/OS world needs a good uppercut when it come to knee pain.  Almost inevitably they prescribe exercises which make things worse!  IMO it is one of the most outrageous aspects of modern 'medicine'.
L Medial menisectomy 2012
PFPS both knees 2012-2017
Pre-CRPS diagnosed 2014 (I think this was crap)
2017 - 90+% cured via Dr Dye's research
2018 - MTB crash, busted collarbone & ribs - easy compared to knees!
2019 - ride 3x/week, swim 2x/week, gym 2x/week, aiming to get back to short triathlons

Offline Celina1989

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Re: Cause of my kneepain? Advice and experience with arthroscopy?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2018, 05:43:53 AM »
On the xray made the day after it started there was already that loose body to see. Back then my OS said it would have been too small to really cause complains so they didnt really think about it anymore till after mri showed up clean. I dont have lockin syptoms now but this loose body is tiny compaired to the other one. It also feels different. Sure thing they will get it out.

I quit PT the day after the first strengthening exercises. It didnt feel good. At that point I was trying to improve my normal work but maybe just a week after I was told to do less. I think the stretching exercises they learned are great. I also added some from the internet and do m daily. As long as it almost painfree I will continue m. So now doing before work (secretary job) exercises...

Offline Celina1989

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Re: Cause of my kneepain? Advice and experience with arthroscopy?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2018, 07:25:38 PM »
So today I had my surgery. Seconds after he got in my knee he said "ooh this is wrong". So I was kinda happy he found something. But the anesthesiologist immidiatly said that I better shouldnt have this. What seemed a part of my femurbone was totally exposed. Cartillage gone and as a loose body in my knee. He cleaned/ shaved it and then made some holes in the bone with a chondropick to hopefully get a new protective layer. It has been super painfull today. Not feeling well atm.

I havent googled anything yet. Will do so next days so if information is a bit odd im sorry for that. Just wanted to let you know what my outcome is. Advice is always appreciated!

Offline Brandon123

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Re: Cause of my kneepain? Advice and experience with arthroscopy?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2018, 09:52:27 AM »
Glad to hear that you finally had your surgery and that the OS found the problem. Wishing you a speedy recovery!
RK sharp pain while running, diagnosis chondromalacia patellae 6/09
RK arthroscopic chondroplasty 9/09
RK rehab, recovery, 90% normal, started running again -> back to square one 5/15
RK diagnosis patellofemoral arthritis + LK diagnosis chondromalacia patellae 8/15 -> conservative treatment

Offline Celina1989

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Re: Cause of my kneepain? Advice and experience with arthroscopy?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2018, 10:06:00 AM »
Thank you Brandon! Now that I know more about it im not sure if I want this but it is what it is. It was kinda unable to miss. Even I saw something strange altho I had no clue what it is. I have a lot of questions now that I put in my shorter version. If you can help me with that it is very much appreciated.

@suspectdevice, you were totally right. What they found on MRI was the issue. Glad i quit PT. Im now looking for a speciastic knee PT.















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