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Author Topic: Where to get cultured stem cell procedure?  (Read 12326 times)

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Offline db1984

  • MINIgeek (20-50 posts)
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  • Knee OA, going all out with cultured MSCs!
Re: Where to get cultured stem cell procedure?
« Reply #45 on: July 29, 2020, 09:51:15 AM »
Hi mang0954,

The electrical stimulator is a Compex Edge. I've been using it for a few weeks and so far I'm impressed:

https://www.compex.com/compex-edge-2-0-muscle-stimulator-kit-with-tens

I decided to get it after reading multiple articles about how it's impossible to isolate the VMO through exercise alone, but that electrical stimulation can effectively isolate it. The goal of this is to improve my patellar tracking as much as possible:

http://www.viviangrisogono.com/knee/ems-for-vmo
https://spinalflowyoga.com/exercise-wont-selectively-activate-the-vmo-but-electric-stimulation-will/
https://www.academia.edu/38834008/The_Effect_of_Exercise_and_Electrical_Muscle_Stimulation_on_the_Architecture_of_the_Vastus_Medialis_Oblique_-The_Empi_Electrotherapy_System
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/280236807_Effects_of_electrical_stimulation_of_vastus_medialis_obliquus_muscle_in_patients_with_patellofemoral_pain_syndrome_An_electromyographic_analysis

My idea to try ultrasound is based on the studies listed below. These are from a research group at the University of Nebraska that derived a resonant frequency for chondrocytes and MSCs at 5 MHz. I should clarify that these aren't human trials but purely scientific studies in the lab. In my opinion, the most convincing work they've done is repairing cartilage fissures in osteochondral explants, just by applying ultrasound. They've also shown that they can use ultrasound to enhance chondrogenic gene expression in MSCs, so "in theory" you could enhance the outcome of a stem cell injection with ultrasound. This is very impressive in my opinion and the basic science makes sense, but how well this will translate to an actual knee hasn't been demonstrated in human trials.

This is definitely a grey area that I'm willing to try myself but wouldn't recommend to others. For my day job I'm an engineer at a company that makes medical ultrasound probes. I know how to fine tune them to keep the power levels safe, in fact that's what I do at my job. The probes that they're using in these studies aren't medical grade probes but are normally used in industrial applications. They should be safe if the power output is kept low. There are no FDA approved therapeutic ultrasound systems that I'm aware of that put out the same frequency and power levels used in these studies, hence my need to do my own experimentation. While I consider using ultrasound probes on my knee to be low risk, It is possible to hurt yourself with these probes if you don't know what you're doing. This is why I can't specifically recommend this to anybody else, although I'm willing to share what I'm experimenting with. Anyways, here's the studies I mentioned. They give a detailed description of the ultrasound setup they used:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31054572/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31190618/
https://stemcellres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13287-019-1532-2
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5684760/

I would definitely recommend trying Regenexx-C. It's very safe, non-invasive, has a lot of efficacy and doesn't burn any bridges. They have demonstrated repair of cartilage defects with their injection technique, although it seems to work best in small defects and not in all patients. I think with enough optimization I can get better results with cartilage repair, which is why I'm researching all this stuff. I'm not quite ready to give up on it yet, so when the time comes I'm going to try again, probably some time in 2021.

By the way, if you want to try Dr. Saw's procedure I'm pretty sure it will be a lot more than a few weeks in Malaysia. Isn't it multiple injections spread out over months? I know that's how Dr. Broyles is doing it in the US, although I could be mistaken.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 09:58:21 PM by db1984 »
Jun 16: Patellofemoral OA, Lumbar DDD
Aug 16: Regenexx-SD left knee, PRP right knee
Mar 17: Bone marrow aspiration for cell culture
Apr 17: Regenexx-C both knees, lumbar spine, left shoulder
Jun 17: PRP both Achilles, right hip, both knees
Jan 18: Knees and back MUCH better, planning 2nd treatment

Offline Nici_j

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Re: Where to get cultured stem cell procedure?
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2020, 10:05:12 AM »
Hi there - I've been reading your posts with interest as I seem to have similar knee issues - small 3 mm diameter full thickness lesion in trochlear groove with subchondral oedema. It's a trauma injury from 6 months ago when I had to jump a fence to escape some young cows running towards me and I caught my foot in the fence as I jumped down and twisted my leg. I've only just got the diagnosis from MRI and looking into what I can do next. I'm pretty sure that the pain I am getting is from the oedema. I'm also concerned that if I don't manage to find a way to heal the lesion, that I'm always going to be susceptible to oedema. I'm probably going to try stem cells but I am also looking at extracorporeal shockwave therapy for the oedema and wondered if you had looked into that or considered it at all? It seems to be quite successful.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29384878/