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Author Topic: Lipogems versus Bone Marrow stem cells  (Read 4011 times)

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Offline nycyogi

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Lipogems versus Bone Marrow stem cells
« on: June 22, 2017, 04:53:03 PM »
I am looking into Lipogems and Bone Marrow stem cells for my meniscus tear. I am 45yo, fairly healthy with on arthritis. The tear is as a result of a ski injury and not much pain, but i cannot run.

Lipogems doctor is saying they prefer Lipogems over BMC for Meniscal tear. BMC person is saying BMC is better..

Any recommendations or links to research comparing both procedure.

Offline razuzin

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Re: Lipogems versus Bone Marrow stem cells
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2017, 03:17:03 AM »
I've done both within one year, both helped, hard to say which one helped more.
Lipogems helped with bone marrow edema, MSC supposedly contributed to some cartilage regrowth in the trochlear groove area.
My meniscus was trimmed during the MSC procedure too and stem cells were placed to the affected area. Hard to say whether they helped with any meniscus regrowth, my MRO 4 months after didn't mention any of that but overall pain relief was significant.

I've read some research that msc's have a better chance to turn into hyaline cartilage cells than adipose cells so this should indicate that msc's could be preferred in your situation. One issue with msc's is cell count, but if you're in good health you're likely to get a good amount. You should probably add some cells inducing supplements to your diet prior to the procedure.

Offline nycyogi

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Re: Lipogems versus Bone Marrow stem cells
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2017, 03:42:51 AM »
Thanks for your reply Razurin. I am leaning towards BMC as well. I don't have any pain as such and do my normal day to day without any problems. I can climb stairs and take a walk without any issue. But when i get pain when i try to run and the knee has gotten locked twice when i bent it between 0 - 15 Degree.

I am meeting with the regenexx doctor on Monday. let's see what he says. This is the quote i got for PRP and Lipogem
PRP - $950
Lipogems  $3750

Offline Aly0108

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Re: Lipogems versus Bone Marrow stem cells
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2017, 10:24:57 PM »
I've done both within one year, both helped, hard to say which one helped more.
Lipogems helped with bone marrow edema, MSC supposedly contributed to some cartilage regrowth in the trochlear groove area.
My meniscus was trimmed during the MSC procedure too and stem cells were placed to the affected area. Hard to say whether they helped with any meniscus regrowth, my MRO 4 months after didn't mention any of that but overall pain relief was significant.

I've read some research that msc's have a better chance to turn into hyaline cartilage cells than adipose cells so this should indicate that msc's could be preferred in your situation. One issue with msc's is cell count, but if you're in good health you're likely to get a good amount. You should probably add some cells inducing supplements to your diet prior to the procedure.

Razuzin,

I will visite on Friday my sport medicine I am sure he will say to try stem cell for chondromalacia gr,1-2.
Can you say me if you have stem cell for patella? an if that helped you?

 

Offline razuzin

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Re: Lipogems versus Bone Marrow stem cells
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2017, 01:03:12 PM »
Thanks for your reply Razurin. I am leaning towards BMC as well. I don't have any pain as such and do my normal day to day without any problems. I can climb stairs and take a walk without any issue. But when i get pain when i try to run and the knee has gotten locked twice when i bent it between 0 - 15 Degree.

I am meeting with the regenexx doctor on Monday. let's see what he says. This is the quote i got for PRP and Lipogem
PRP - $950
Lipogems  $3750
Good luck. I got an identical price for Lipogems, probably you're going to same place in NJ. Btw, Lipogems is not a Regenexx procedure.
I always thought that locked knee from damaged meniscus would require a surgical intervention to remove flapping pieces but perhaps any of above procedures may help.
See you PM for more detail.

Offline razuzin

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Re: Lipogems versus Bone Marrow stem cells
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2017, 01:11:03 PM »
[

Razuzin,

I will visite on Friday my sport medicine I am sure he will say to try stem cell for chondromalacia gr,1-2.
Can you say me if you have stem cell for patella? an if that helped you?
Aly0108,
yes, to be exact it was for the area under patella, trochlear groove. The cartilage at the back of my patella is in good condition, the trochlear groove area had a grade 4 defect.
After Lipogems my grade 4 MRI reading didn't change, however the bone under improved, no more bone bruising known as bone marrow edema which apparently was the source of pain and swelling.
The marrow stem cells were glued to that same area in a separate procedure, an MRI 4.5 months later showed some cartilage regrowth and I had further improvement.

Offline nycyogi

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Re: Lipogems versus Bone Marrow stem cells
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2017, 03:02:40 AM »
Thanks Razuzin for your PM. I got the quote from the same place as yours. I have decided to go with BMC though. I have read more stuff about BMC used for the knee than Lipogems. We will see how it goes.

As regards the locked knee, it has gotten locked twice in the last 4 months whenever i bent it between 0 - 15 degrees. It unlocks if i try couple of times. I can walk around and do my day to day activities without any problems but i don't squat or bent the knee completely for the fear of locking. For now, i have been able to unlock it but you never know. That is the main reason, i want to try BMC to see if the stem cells can act as a glue and set the meniscus right.

Offline reflex_nl

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Re: Lipogems versus Bone Marrow stem cells
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2017, 04:16:58 PM »
@ razuzin, did you had the Regenexx procedure? I'm suffering with grade 4 damage to the patella these days.
RK Patella Luxation in 2000
RK Scope grade 2 damage to patella
RK PT for 4 mths, recovered 90% after 4 years
LK Patella Luxation in Oct'16
LK Scope to remove loose bodies (grade 4) to patella Nov'16
LK Lateral Release + MPFL Reefing + MCIC in the UK Dec'17

Offline razuzin

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Re: Lipogems versus Bone Marrow stem cells
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2017, 01:46:14 AM »
@ razuzin, did you had the Regenexx procedure? I'm suffering with grade 4 damage to the patella these days.
No, I didn't have any Regenexx procedures.  Lipogems is a patented form of adipose (fat) tissue injection. I'm sure Regenexx does something similar, probably for more money.
Same goes to a BMC injection I had, this one is widely offered by many doctors besides Regenexx.

Offline razuzin

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Re: Lipogems versus Bone Marrow stem cells
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2017, 01:50:09 AM »
Thanks Razuzin for your PM. I got the quote from the same place as yours. I have decided to go with BMC though. I have read more stuff about BMC used for the knee than Lipogems. We will see how it goes.

As regards the locked knee, it has gotten locked twice in the last 4 months whenever i bent it between 0 - 15 degrees. It unlocks if i try couple of times. I can walk around and do my day to day activities without any problems but i don't squat or bent the knee completely for the fear of locking. For now, i have been able to unlock it but you never know. That is the main reason, i want to try BMC to see if the stem cells can act as a glue and set the meniscus right.
nycyogi,
makes sense., I also thought BMC is more beneficial for a knee.
I don't think stem cells act in any way as a glue, their benefit is more on a molecular level.
I found that the main benefit of BMC is slowdown or even a reversal of chemical processes which cause inflammation and further cartilage deterioration. I don't think there is a major cartilage regrowh as a result of BMC.
Having said that, your condition may improve drastically even with no regrowth, perhaps excess inflammation is causing your locking up.

Keep us posted of your results.

Offline PuneKnee

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Re: Lipogems versus Bone Marrow stem cells
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2020, 11:10:32 AM »
Dr Harry Adelson on this topic:
https://youtu.be/cjSu4FrmK8k?t=282

Adipose Stem cell have multiple times more stem cells than bone marrow and when it works, it works really great but about 25% people do not respond to adipose stem cells















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