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Author Topic: Are the MPFL and the patellar tendon the same thing?  (Read 2226 times)

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Offline spannerwingnut

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Are the MPFL and the patellar tendon the same thing?
« on: March 17, 2017, 05:52:07 PM »
I had an MRI which read that i have a Grade 2 Sprain  of the MPFL, i have been doing a lot of reading online and just want to clarify that the MPFL is the same as the patellar tendon, and that it gets referred to as both but is technically a ligament.
I am in week four of physio exercises and just want to try and clarify that i am on the right track and surgery isn't going to crop up later down the road.

I had a skiing accident on 30th Jan, have grade 2 sprains of MCL and MPFL according to UK radiologist. I feel like my MCL is much better than it was, this is week 7 of R.I.C.E but my ROM is still very limited and i can't walk properly. Hence i am signed off work, 6 weeks and counting.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 05:56:06 PM by spannerwingnut »
Grade II Sprain of MCL & MPFL & bone bruising
Ski accident 30th Jan 2017. Xray of knee in Austria.
19th Feb - MRI done in UK
26th Feb - 1st Physio appointment, 16th March 2nd physio
24th March 2017 - consulatation with orthopaedic surgeon
29th June - MUA under spinal nerve block

Offline Vickster

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Re: Are the MPFL and the patellar tendon the same thing?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2017, 10:39:00 PM »
What has your knee specialist said after the MRI? Radiologists do not diagnose or treat injuries (other than guided injections etc), they report findings to the specialist.
Have you seen one? If not get a referral asap.
Is the junior Physio any good? Maybe see an experienced knee specialist Physio privately to ensure you're on the right tracks. What job do you do, presumably something physical or driving rather than office?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 11:01:34 PM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline spannerwingnut

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Re: Are the MPFL and the patellar tendon the same thing?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2017, 12:44:05 PM »
Hi Vickster, thanks for responding!
I haven't seen a knee specialist yet, this was what i was wondering. I have just given MRI results to my NHS physio. The MRI was done privately, paid for by my work to try and speed things up. But they wont pay for private physio treatment.
The Physio seems ok, she made some progress getting more extension and flexation on my second visit but did say she would have expected slightly more improvement by now.
My job is Assistant Stage Manager on a show in the west end, sadly it is very active and i will eventually need full mobility in my knee to do my job fully. There are other roles i can do which are less active but to start with i need to be able to walk half an hour to and from train stations each day to get there and back.
So i am in a spot right now. I am now on statutory sick pay as i have used all my sick allowance...
Grade II Sprain of MCL & MPFL & bone bruising
Ski accident 30th Jan 2017. Xray of knee in Austria.
19th Feb - MRI done in UK
26th Feb - 1st Physio appointment, 16th March 2nd physio
24th March 2017 - consulatation with orthopaedic surgeon
29th June - MUA under spinal nerve block

Offline Vickster

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Re: Are the MPFL and the patellar tendon the same thing?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2017, 04:31:49 PM »
Get your GP to refer you to a knee specialist asap on the NHS if private isn't an option. Where in the London area are you?  I'm sure some centres will have a shorter wait :) although if surgery is needed, there'll be a bit of a wait again. Did you dislocate your knee, my understanding is that the MPFL is damaged when you do?  I didn't know the MPFL and patella tendon are the same, I've never heard that before. Did the physio say?

This shows them as different

http://img.webmd.com/dtmcms/live/webmd/consumer_assets/site_images/media/medical/hw/h9991565_002.jpg

My sister in law is a dresser on a west end show, so I sort of know what that can involve, lots of running around
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 04:56:28 PM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline Chiropractor2001

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Re: Are the MPFL and the patellar tendon the same thing?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2017, 07:53:14 PM »
Hi
patellar tendon and mpfl are not the same. The mpfl is located more to the side and when you have a patellar tendon rupture then you definitely have ripped the mpfl as well.. however you could tear the mpfl without patellar tendon ruptured.  Same as you could tear your medial and lateral collateral ligaments without tearing the patellar tendon. However , I still think it is wise to see the specialist however if it is only mpfl, alot of surgeon would not operate and ask to do pt and reassess in few months.  Again.. try to arrange a ortho to assess .. sometimes in canada if you get to referred to fracture clinic then the ortho will assess on the spot.

Offline spannerwingnut

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Re: Are the MPFL and the patellar tendon the same thing?
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2017, 08:19:16 PM »
Thanks guys, its a bit confusing when so many things get called by different names but that is reassuring!
I assume i must have dislocated my knee as i fell, but i had xray's done pretty swiftly and he didn't mention anything then, only said i had partial rupture of the MCL. The MPFL was only mentioned after MRI, so my kneecap must have corrected itself at the time? Unless i sprained it after, is it possible to give yourself an MPFL sprain while treating an MCL, i feel thats unlikely!
I am going to book for a consulation with a private knee specialist, just for peace of mind really. I just don't want to go through the next three weeks of exercises to then be told i might need surgery or something. The physio just seemed a bit doubtful which had me worry a bit more, and especially as she mentioned that based on my ROM she would have assumed meniscus issues, so while i am off work and loosing money i just want to be 100% that i will make a full recovery.
Thanks for the advice it is much appreciated. I am knee injury virgin so forgive me for being uneducated! Really glad i found this site!
Grade II Sprain of MCL & MPFL & bone bruising
Ski accident 30th Jan 2017. Xray of knee in Austria.
19th Feb - MRI done in UK
26th Feb - 1st Physio appointment, 16th March 2nd physio
24th March 2017 - consulatation with orthopaedic surgeon
29th June - MUA under spinal nerve block

Offline Vickster

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Re: Are the MPFL and the patellar tendon the same thing?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2017, 08:35:45 PM »
Do find a surgeon who has an extensive NHS practice as well as private. If you need surgery, you could potentially get moved to the NHS list, rather than having to pay private (any private knee op in the London area with a senior knee surgeon could easily end up costing 4K+, even straightforward keyhole for meniscus, plus follow up and private physio). Obviously, NHS you could be waiting months not a week or two if surgery is needed
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline spannerwingnut

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Re: Are the MPFL and the patellar tendon the same thing?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2017, 08:49:27 PM »
I will do, thank-you. Fingers crossed. Its just because its been 7 weeks already, i am slightly concerned, as a lot of people seem to have made great recovery steps in that time!
Grade II Sprain of MCL & MPFL & bone bruising
Ski accident 30th Jan 2017. Xray of knee in Austria.
19th Feb - MRI done in UK
26th Feb - 1st Physio appointment, 16th March 2nd physio
24th March 2017 - consulatation with orthopaedic surgeon
29th June - MUA under spinal nerve block

Offline Vickster

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Re: Are the MPFL and the patellar tendon the same thing?
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2017, 08:54:06 PM »
How much ROM do you have?

Where are you in London?
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline spannerwingnut

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Re: Are the MPFL and the patellar tendon the same thing?
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2017, 09:22:27 PM »
I am in South East London so i think the treatment options here are ok!
I am basically still stuck at 50 extension, i managed to get up to about 70 i think after she worked on me on the bending but didn't really gain on the extending. But we did make a little progress which was good.
Leg kinda stuck at 50, i have an excellent limp and cant put leg flat at all.
Tried to attach pic but file too large!
Grade II Sprain of MCL & MPFL & bone bruising
Ski accident 30th Jan 2017. Xray of knee in Austria.
19th Feb - MRI done in UK
26th Feb - 1st Physio appointment, 16th March 2nd physio
24th March 2017 - consulatation with orthopaedic surgeon
29th June - MUA under spinal nerve block

Offline Vickster

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Re: Are the MPFL and the patellar tendon the same thing?
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2017, 09:33:56 PM »
Guys has good orthopaedics (private base generally at London Bridge Hospital/Shard).

For example. This chap operated on someone I know (ACL), sounds like he's a keen skier so should be good with ski injuries :)

http://www.londonbridgehospital.com/LBH/consultant-det/mr-andrew-davies/
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline spannerwingnut

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Re: Are the MPFL and the patellar tendon the same thing?
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2017, 09:56:48 PM »
Well i saw a knee specialist today, he had a look at my MRI and said everything looks ok, no reason to doubt intial findings. He thinks that my ligaments have healed really tight, thats why my ROM is so limited still, he did seem slightly suprised. Luckily i can have my follow-up appointments with him through the NHS which is excellent. He said we can do hydro-therapy in a couple of weeks, in the meantime i am to try and get it moving as much as possible, so today i went swimming.
No brace, and no crutches and just have to try and walk as normally as possible. Hopefully will be able to get back into work soon!
He said they won't think of doing a manual manipulation until 3 months in, and i am just under two at the moment, so i am hoping to have some good improvement over the next few weeks!
I thought i had been quite mobile on it the whole time, but i guess it must not have been as much as i thought, maybe i kept it elevated too long, but it still hasn't ever been able to lay flat, so i guess now i suffer the pain instead!

I am just wondering now, 8 weeks in, if i had had my MRI sooner and not waited almost three weeks for it, that i would have healed better than i have done. I could have been doing exercises much sooner if i had the results befor the 1st physio. Oh well, i guess can't change it now.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 08:46:50 PM by spannerwingnut »
Grade II Sprain of MCL & MPFL & bone bruising
Ski accident 30th Jan 2017. Xray of knee in Austria.
19th Feb - MRI done in UK
26th Feb - 1st Physio appointment, 16th March 2nd physio
24th March 2017 - consulatation with orthopaedic surgeon
29th June - MUA under spinal nerve block

Offline Vickster

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Re: Are the MPFL and the patellar tendon the same thing?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2017, 10:27:50 AM »
Good that you've seen the consultant, where did you go?

I'd now be finding a more experienced physio, perhaps he can recommend someone (if you saw him privately which it sounds like? Drop his secretary an email or call).  Hopefully starting to use it properly will do the trick. Lots of heel slides etc to get the movement back, also in pool. And the bath in warm water can be good for loosing joints up

I would assume an MUA would be a day surgery, be out as soon as you come round from the genial anaesthetic. A few days rest and then on with physio asap to stop it stiffening again

I doubt having an MRI sooner would have made any difference, getting moving with the physio and off crutches may have done, but no point dwelling on what might have been

Good luck :)
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline spannerwingnut

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Re: Are the MPFL and the patellar tendon the same thing?
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2017, 10:07:43 PM »
Thanks Vickster!
I went to The Sloane hospital in Kent, saw an orthopaedic surgeon & physiotherapist. Hopefully will get the date for next appointment with him soon.
I have invested in some Arnica massage balm to massage my knee before my excercises, might be usless but have to try!
I have also swum twice now and going to include reps of walking half way up the pool forwards and backwards into the visits. Hurt alot after today! I got a bit upset briefly as its so frustrating and i love swimming!
 Luckily i have people who don't mind driving me everywhere. I am really hoping to be able to get some decent movement back soon, i find the knee slides the hardest because my knee hardly moves, i have a bit more movement with the assisted flexation while seated on a chair though.

I think i should change the subject of this thread!
Thanks for your relpy, its very nice of you.
Grade II Sprain of MCL & MPFL & bone bruising
Ski accident 30th Jan 2017. Xray of knee in Austria.
19th Feb - MRI done in UK
26th Feb - 1st Physio appointment, 16th March 2nd physio
24th March 2017 - consulatation with orthopaedic surgeon
29th June - MUA under spinal nerve block

Offline Vickster

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Re: Are the MPFL and the patellar tendon the same thing?
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2017, 09:08:04 PM »
Sounds like you have a plan and are getting somewhere, hopefully the physio can help you get the movement back.  Are you also getting hydrotherapy with a therapist in the warm specialist pool (was that the Sloane on the way to Beckenham, I used to live closeby).  Do they have a hydrotherapy pool?

All the best :)
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up















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