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Author Topic: Out of surgery with Broyles  (Read 19561 times)

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Offline dal_knee

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #90 on: May 30, 2017, 10:37:05 PM »
Is the pink part exposed bone or irritated cartilage ?  Do you think or is Dr broyles saying the overgrown scar tissue wedge rubbed off the articular cartilage ?
2007 - partial medial meniscectomy
2010 - full thickness chondral defect & adjacent subchondral edema MFC.   Direct result of stupid partial mensicectomy from 2007.
2014 - Subchondroplasty, chondroplasty, unauthorized 2nd partial medial meniscectomy.
2015 - partial failure of subchondroplasty.

Offline plaidwandering

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #91 on: May 30, 2017, 10:40:49 PM »
He said it was cartilage that was irritated so much that blood vessels developed up from the bone

obviously the groove isn't supposed to be there...

Offline plaidwandering

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #92 on: May 30, 2017, 10:57:12 PM »
the dang irritating thing is that yes, this isn't perfect

but it sure is a lot more cartilage there than there was pre-surgery

so why is it a crap shoot if pain is worse than or same than before surgery?

Offline dal_knee

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #93 on: May 30, 2017, 11:17:22 PM »
But the pink/reddish angry part sure looks like it would be a cause of "new" pain right?   He's not suggesting anything like perhaps a couple of extra PRPs to help further healing of inflamed areas???

And the groove part that you mention, was that area treated with drilling or not?
2007 - partial medial meniscectomy
2010 - full thickness chondral defect & adjacent subchondral edema MFC.   Direct result of stupid partial mensicectomy from 2007.
2014 - Subchondroplasty, chondroplasty, unauthorized 2nd partial medial meniscectomy.
2015 - partial failure of subchondroplasty.

Offline plaidwandering

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #94 on: May 30, 2017, 11:26:19 PM »
well not extra so to speak, there was always a plan for a round of bmac at one year

I just don't know if I feel this has failed too much to be worth flying and 16 days in hotel and procedure cost...pretty much everyone else was walking like a normal person well before 11 months, and any given day I may be limping a lot by 5 minutes

the groove in the pic is right in the middle of the drill site. The two pics show the MFC that was drilled on

Offline dal_knee

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #95 on: May 31, 2017, 12:01:03 AM »
Yeah it's a tough decision to make.   On the one hand you hear that the follow up injections serve to help mature the cartilage to type-II hyaline but also you'll hear commentary from Saw that 3-year mri's can show continued cartilage thickness growth compared to 2-year timepoints.   There may be hope to fill in the groove, in addition to moving the full thickness tissue toward hyaline composition, but it's definitely a gamble.

Hey, what about the "zapping" sensations you have mentioned?  Is that still going on?   Have you had a nerve conduction study done?   If it feels like it's coming from deep within the bone ( and not a skin surface sensation), you may still have some unresolved bone marrow edema.   Just offering my input & thoughts.
2007 - partial medial meniscectomy
2010 - full thickness chondral defect & adjacent subchondral edema MFC.   Direct result of stupid partial mensicectomy from 2007.
2014 - Subchondroplasty, chondroplasty, unauthorized 2nd partial medial meniscectomy.
2015 - partial failure of subchondroplasty.

Offline plaidwandering

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #96 on: May 31, 2017, 08:04:13 AM »
I'm quite positive those are something catching momentarily

Offline plaidwandering

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #97 on: June 13, 2017, 02:17:58 AM »
had time to go through the video frame by frame

there is definitely still exposed bone, and some places the cartilage has ripped open
« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 02:20:17 AM by plaidwandering »

Offline RGB

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #98 on: June 18, 2017, 12:51:47 AM »
Hi there. I've done a lot of reading of these conversations but never added anything. I am doing so in the hope that my experience may help someone. I will be brief. I'm posting it here because I think it's relevant to plaidwandering's experience.  I am a 55 year old male, used to a very high level of activity. I am a former ski instructor, rock climber, windsurfer etc, until my knee gave me trouble. This is the story:

1.  In 1993 I had an ACL repair (patella tendon graft). That was successful and I was very active on the knee for the next 17 years.
2.  In 2010 I was diagnosed with a torn meniscus and a full thickness cartilage lesion in the trochlea. I underwent a partial meniscotomy plus microfracture. Very little guidance on rehab was provided by the surgeon and physio. The outcome was poor.
3.  In 2011, I had an debridement. Photos showed there was a reasonable amount of fibrocartilage in the trochlea lesion but there was a new lesion on the central patella. The debridement made the knee smoother but it was still not up to much activity. I had numerous PRP injections over the next year or so.
4.  In 2012 I had a liposuction derived/concentrated stem cell injection. This had no discernible effect.
5.  In 2013 I was unwise enough to go on a 4 hour steep hike. I knew I couldn't/shouldn't but I was past caring. The knee swelled and a subsequent MRI revealed I'd torn off another piece of cartilage from the trochlea.
6. In 2014 I underwent Dr Saw's stem cell treatment in KL. He's very professional and I had the best of care. I followed the rehab protocol to the letter and, believe me, that's not easy to do for 2 years. The bottom line is that it didn't work for me. The knee ended up with a very impressive level of crepitus and a poor tolerance to activity - perhaps slightly better than before but not significantly. I could do about one flight of stairs per day and I could cycle on the flat for about an hour, or row for about 30 minutes, every second day.
7. In March of this year, I had a patellofemoral replacement (Zimmer). It's early days but it's fantastic. A smooth knee, able to tolerate activity at a level that's been unthinkable for 7-8 years and it's still improving rapidly. My knee will shortly cease to be the centre of my physical universe because I will stop thinking about it all the time. I'll probably stop browsing these discussion pages! Yay. I may well need a full replacement in 10-15 years but that's OK by me. I'll get a high level of activity in the meantime and, to be honest, the recovery from the partial replacement has been easy and pain free.

Regards to all.

Offline dal_knee

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #99 on: June 19, 2017, 12:49:34 AM »
Hi RGB,

Does Dr Saw have any commentary/perspective on why this isn't working satisfactorily??
2007 - partial medial meniscectomy
2010 - full thickness chondral defect & adjacent subchondral edema MFC.   Direct result of stupid partial mensicectomy from 2007.
2014 - Subchondroplasty, chondroplasty, unauthorized 2nd partial medial meniscectomy.
2015 - partial failure of subchondroplasty.

Offline RGB

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #100 on: June 19, 2017, 02:22:35 AM »
As far as he was concerned it was working and I should wait for it to improve. I had all the stem cell booster injections up to and including 2 years. I waited until 2 years 9 months before having the partial replacement and functionality/pain/crepitus had not changed for at least a year. That was long enough for me.

Offline plaidwandering

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #101 on: June 22, 2017, 10:46:09 PM »
I am going back for the one year round of injections. I don't really have any expectations, I just know that if I don't then more surgery is absolutely guaranteed.

Offline plaidwandering

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #102 on: July 07, 2017, 04:57:09 PM »
well that went sideways

4 days before my flight down, I got bit my some mystery bug that I didn't even see when it happened. I ended up getting grounded with a major infection in the bite (















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