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Author Topic: Out of surgery with Broyles  (Read 19830 times)

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Offline plaidwandering

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2016, 06:24:24 PM »
Hard to say at the moment.

Dr. Broyles didn't want me to try pushing things again until the six month mark.

Offline jnestor1299

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2016, 10:45:44 PM »
You indicated in your previous update the cartilage has regenerated up to 90% already....is that normal?  Also, did Dr. Broyles tell you the quality of the cartilage via mri? Thanks

Offline plaidwandering

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2016, 12:55:35 AM »
Pretty sure you can't tell that from MRI, that's why people in Dr. Saw's originL studies had to agree to re-arthroscopy  and some biopsies

It is also too soon/ immature to be in its final state...

I'm still using a go cart for grocery trips or I feel it, I had the impression I'd be paste that by now, but I'm told not to worry that it's doing well

Offline Vlad

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2016, 09:29:49 PM »
Plaid, I have moderate-sized horizontal tear of the medial meniscus posterior horn, mild medial compartment osteoarthritis, mild patellofemoral osteoarthritis with moderate chondrosis in my right knee and I'm trying to get a consultation with Dr Broyles (I still have to ship the MRI CD, so it will take probably couple of weeks before I get to talk to him), but in the meantime I'm trying to educate myself about possible procedures/treatments and doctors.
6 months in, are you happy with the procedure and with the doctor? Would you recommend it?
I'm trying to decide if I should go for this kind of extensive procedure, even though I have only mild arthritis for now, or should I try just stem-cell/PRP first (i.e. Docere/Dr Adelson).

I live in Denver, CO, so I'd have to fly to both doctors, but Dr Broyles is much more expensive (money and time) and with much higher chance of getting the complete regeneration.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 03:54:34 AM by Vlad »
10/2016 - meniscus tear, mild arthritis right knee

Offline psny

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2016, 05:23:29 AM »
@plaidwandering From the videos I recall seeing from Dr. Saw that included testimonials from patents the recovery time for full return to activity was around 1 year. At 8 weeks post-op most of the patients were doing normal daily tasks and were doing PT. This coincides with standard microfracture surgeries as well. The recovery time is usually around 8 weeks non-weight bearing followed by a slow return to activity after PT.

Have you inquired to Dr. Broyles as to why your situation is different? I am not claiming anything is wrong, or that your recovery time is any longer then normal. I am not too familiar with how Dr. Broyles recovery protocol differs from Dr. Saw's, nor am I really familiar with Dr. Saw's. I only know what I saw in the YouTube video pertaining to his procedure.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 05:25:29 AM by psny »

Offline plaidwandering

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2016, 02:19:52 AM »
vlad, while my injury is not the same as yours, I will tell you I did 5x prp, then 5x bmac prior to this surgery with no relief at all.

psny I'm not sure what you mean, I was told full recovery was a year also, and I'm at 5.5 months now. I had the impression from other patients that I'd be doing more at this point, but it's going to vary more

yes, I am starting to worry some. I still am worse off than the day before surgery. I still have pain in places I didn't have before surgery. Yet, the cartilage shows that good thickness on mri. I don't know what to think of it. Dr. Broyles is blaming scar tissue, but it's getting harder to accept as the cause. I hurt in three places in the knee, only two of which can be tied to the scar tissue that also shows on the mri.

No I can't say I'm happy yet obviously, but they say it's not a done deal either. Still being less than 1/3rd as capable of walking than prior to surgery is definitely weighing on me.

I know Danielle, who doesn't seem to be posting here, had him do both knees a year apart and is happy.

Offline dal_knee

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2016, 04:10:53 PM »
Hi Plaid

Can you remind us the areas of the knee you had drilled?  Femur, tibia, trochlea, patella?  Any kissing lesions?  Do you recall the size of the defect(s)?

Regarding scar tissue.... you might be able to break some of that down by using friction massage or Graston (typically done at a chiro).   Are these areas of scar tissue tracking back to the arthroscopic portals?  Is that the area of "pain?"  Also scar tissue can take 2 years to "remodel" and break down; it's considered normal.   (Does not apply AF, though)

 
2007 - partial medial meniscectomy
2010 - full thickness chondral defect & adjacent subchondral edema MFC.   Direct result of stupid partial mensicectomy from 2007.
2014 - Subchondroplasty, chondroplasty, unauthorized 2nd partial medial meniscectomy.
2015 - partial failure of subchondroplasty.

Offline newkneecartilage

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2016, 05:48:31 PM »
Hey Plaidwandering, sorry you are having problems!  Where did Broyles say your scar tissue is?  Dal_knee suggested graston which is great if the scar tissue is close to the knee surface. Definitely ask Broyles if he thinks that is an option for your.  He is pretty good about staying knowledgeable on things that physical therapist can offer.  I'm going down in 2 weeks for my next check up. I don't get on here very often unless someone messages me.  Danielle

Offline plaidwandering

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2016, 06:42:49 PM »
The scar tissue he sees on the mri is over the medial trochlear ridge.

The areas that were drilled were medial femoral condyle, and somewhere on the medial side of the patella.

The new pain area is between the top medial corner of the patella and the femur. Old pain spots that haven't abated are pain in MFC with weight bearing - right now it's fine for not quite 10 minutes before that starts. I can do 3-5 minutes many times a day with no issue. The last spot is what I swear is a little sore spot on my tibea just below and more medial to the MFC defect. It's always sore to touch pre/post no change. No one has ever seen anything there on any of the many MRIs or two arthroscopies though.

Offline plaidwandering

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2016, 06:46:06 PM »
also something new last night - I have been able to stationary bicycle with nothing to note for 15 minutes since 8 weeks post-op. Last night I had a slight popping with nearly every rotation. It wasn't hurting, but I'll definitely be paying close attention next time to see if it happens again.

Offline Clark

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2016, 07:23:43 PM »
Keep the updates coming.

I'm new to this forum and would appreciate help from anyone. I have bone on bone under my knee cap in the groove. Injured it about 20 years ago with heavy weight lifting (I've simplified this). It currently doesn't prevent me form getting a descent workout but my days are numbered. Oddly I can do some fast interval running (12mph) and careful leg presses but I can't even bike medium hard (forget about an elliptical too). I ice my knees after each work out, sleep with a pillow under my knee, and take glucosamine (all a must for me).

Should I consider dr stones paste graft or should I try dr broyles procedure? Sounds like Adam Ans in Florida isn't an option if you can end up in the control group. It's hard for me to be away from the office for 6 weeks straight. I wondered if dr stones paste graft would work.

Offline Vlad

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2016, 01:23:15 AM »
vlad, while my injury is not the same as yours, I will tell you I did 5x prp, then 5x bmac prior to this surgery with no relief at all.
Plaid, thank you for the input.
I've scheduled the sugery with Dr Boryles on Jan 23. Now I have to see how much time off from job I can negociate with my employer. If I can be off work only 3-4 weeks, then I'll have to fly to Baton Rouge 2-3 times. Pretty inconvenient when you can use only one leg.
In the meantime, couple of days ago I did a PRP injection here in Denver, in the hope that within couple of weeks it will take away the chronic inflamation of my knee.
The PRP injection was the most painful thing I did ever, even more than the 2 colonoscopies without anesthesia I did in the past few years.  ::)
One day after injection, my knee is better than before (it doesn't hurt almost at all), but this could also be due to the early Santa's gifts I received (a Drive Blue Streak wheelchair and crutches... :()
The doc that gave me the PRP, said I should try to be no-bearing on the leg for couple of weeks, but I'm almost 100% sure this injection will not fix the complex meniscus tear, so I might use the wheelchair and crutches on-and-off until I get to the Dr Broyles' surgery.
At this point I'm not sure which one is less bad: using the wheelchair to protect the meniscus tear from getting worse and irritating the knee joint, or getting all my leg muscles atrophied by using the wheelchair.
I'll trying to use the gym to do some upper body and core strength, and I'll give swimming a try in the new year, for the 3 weeks before the surgery.
10/2016 - meniscus tear, mild arthritis right knee

Offline dal_knee

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #57 on: December 17, 2016, 01:59:54 AM »
Vlad

Can you post what Dr Broyles surgical plan is for the complex meniscus tear and any relevant comments.
2007 - partial medial meniscectomy
2010 - full thickness chondral defect & adjacent subchondral edema MFC.   Direct result of stupid partial mensicectomy from 2007.
2014 - Subchondroplasty, chondroplasty, unauthorized 2nd partial medial meniscectomy.
2015 - partial failure of subchondroplasty.

Offline Vlad

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #58 on: December 19, 2016, 05:59:57 PM »
Vlad

Can you post what Dr Broyles surgical plan is for the complex meniscus tear and any relevant comments.
Before I decided for the Dr Broyles procedure, I've had consultations with other 6 doctors about this, including Dr LaPrade and Dr Karli from Steadman Clinic and Dr Adelson from Docere Clinics, plus 3 orthopedic surgeons here in Denver.
The consensus was that just based on MRI and xRay, they cannot say for sure (until they go in with arthroscopy), but most likely a good part of the meniscus tear has no chance of healing by itself, because it's in the part of the joint that receives no blood.
I don't have a high hope for fixing the complex meniscus tear with Dr Broyles procedure, but I'm hoping at least a part of it can heal/regenerate itself following the cleanup of the tear during the surgery and the 12 stem injections.
The best case scenario that Dr Broyles presented was the cartilage will grow to fill up at least part of the meniscus that didn't regenerate. If I'll get to that, I'll probably only know in couple of years time. At that moment, if the meniscus is still a problem, I will look into other options (i.e. transplant, graft, etc)
Do you think is there another option for me at this point?
10/2016 - meniscus tear, mild arthritis right knee

Offline plaidwandering

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Re: Out of surgery with Broyles
« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2016, 11:03:11 PM »
6 month mri, cutting out unimportant parts where there are no problems, these two compartments are where there was drilling

medial compartment: The root of the medial meniscus is normal. The posterior horn and body are within normal limits. The articular cartilage is irregular throughout the lateral half of the medial femoral condyle, and there is is underlying subchondral bone marrow edema. There is also a postoperative artifact along the anterior aspect of the trochlea.

patellofemoral compartment: The cartilage of the patella is intact, and the trochlear cartilage is normal. A small joint effusion is present, and there is a small loose body in the medial gutter of the suprapatellar pouch. This measures up to 4mm in craniocaudal height.