"Iovera treatment for Knee pain" Any Experiences?!

[zminem]

Guys I came across this new treatment call Iovera that claim it has the ability to freeze knee pain away for periods up to 3 months. It's not a treatment for the underlying knee issues but at least it (claims) to mask the pain pretty nicely.

Here is a media report http://www.foxnews.com/health/2015/02/06/new-treatment-instantly-relieves-knee-pain/

I would like to know if anyone in this forum have tried something like this. Please share your experiences and/or opinions.

Thank you 

[dal_knee]

I'm considering this treatment for chronic bone marrow edema, to get me through the next few months, as I explore options for repair. If I get this, I can update you. Will probably need to get it in the next few weeks. I was told the nerve will regenerate fully and normally. No chemicals are used , just freezing cold and no structures like muscle or tendon are affected.

[dal_knee]

Just adding to this, I had it done last week.  I would say it's worked pretty nicely but feel that one smaller area was "missed".  They essentially target 2 sensory nerves that control anterior pain regions only.  If you have posterior pain issues, it won't work there.    The rep confirmed also that motor nerves are not the target or are affected.    Also, it's only good for 2-3 months in younger patients and 6 months in older patients due to slower nerve regeneration process in the older population.   

Now, aside from this, expect excruciating pain as the nerve is "zapped".   Tears were shed  and there were uncontrolled yelps of intense pain.   I think doc may explore using nerve block the next time, just not sure.   I may have to get this again, as I wait for surgery.

[zminem]

Hey buddy,

Thanks for your update. Hope everything works nicely for you. I'm going to try this next week. I'm 31 years old and the pain I have is in the out side of my left knee (lateral side). Not sure if it will work or not. It cost around $1200 so its not cheap as well! How much did it cost you?

I will keep you posted,
Z

[dal_knee]

Hi
I have met my deductible, so I owed only a specialist co-pay of $60.00   

So I'm nearly certain this is going to work for you, lol.   If it doesn't, it's because the treatment was administered improperly.   

[zminem]

Thanks a lot for the information. I really appreciate it. My appointment is on next Saturday. I wanted to ask you if you get any side effects, and do you think the pains comes back even stronger (rebound phenomena)?
 Can you still move normally the next day and go to work?

Cheers!
Z

[dal_knee]

You can go to work immediately after treatment.  Had mine at 10:30 am, then straight to work.

Side effect is numb to touch feeling. That can either resolve early or take the 3 months or so to normalize. I'm stilling having the bruising, which is a nuisance. I expect it to resolve in about 2 weeks.

And regarding rebound, if you injure yourself, you may not feel it or detect it, and then when the nerve fully grows , you may be worse off.  Be careful and avoid overdoing it.  For myself , I can monitor if I've overdone it because they actually missed a spot of bone that is still sensitive. So it's good and bad for me. Also , I'm monitoring for swelling as another indicator. No issues so far. 

[wturri78]

I'm very interested to know how this turns out for you (both!).

The excruciating pain during "zapping" doesn't sound appealing, but after bone marrow draws and PRP injections that made both knees burn for several minutes at a time, maybe I'm ready. Shots don't hurt less than they used to, I just seem not to care anymore 

I've found links to another, and apparently much more widespread technique called "Coolief." Seems to take up to 2 weeks for the nerve to cease to transmit, though it can be faster. Claims to use "cooled radio frequency." Did you read about this, or have a reason for choosing Iovera over it?

[dal_knee]

Yeah, I remember reading about Coolief last year.   I don't have a good comparison (to Iovera) to share with you, though.  I simply went with Iovera because it's what this doc (that I was referred to by my Ortho) has been using.   

I have a follow up next week because I really do want that last bit of area re-treated.  We'll see what he says.  Also hoping he can increase patient comfort for this procedure.   

[wturri78]

Yeah, I remember reading about Coolief last year.   I don't have a good comparison (to Iovera) to share with you, though.  I simply went with Iovera because it's what this doc (that I was referred to by my Ortho) has been using.   

I have a follow up next week because I really do want that last bit of area re-treated.  We'll see what he says.  Also hoping he can increase patient comfort for this procedure.   

How much relief have you really experienced so far, and has it changed over time? My biggest questions would be how well it works and how quickly, for how long. I'm seriously considering something like this if this stem cell stuff doesn't pan out. My knees aren't damaged enough for surgeries according to MRI scans but the pain is becoming intolerable. I just want it to stop. I could live with "killing" pain receptors twice a year I guess, if that's what it takes.

Any research on how many times this can be repeated before it causes lasting damage?

[dal_knee]

Hi wturri,

I'm probably not a great reference for your questions because I'm getting a lot of referred pain that I sense is mostly coming from that area that they "missed".  So although I am bothered by the amount of increased aggravation I'm having in the past 10 days or so, I can't really tell if it's due to some of the nerve being regenerated vs them just having missed the spot, or the combo of those! 

To try to answer some of your questions:   
The treatment works immediately since the nerve is "cut" at the time of treatment.   I would say that for the area they didn't miss,  pain level went down by 95%.    I am unaware of the number of times this treatment can be administered without causing lasting damage.   Maybe I could ask that question next time I see doc (end of this coming week).   Also, the "relief" phase of the treatment is good for 3 months max.   Some experience relief for only 2 months, however.   If your treatment cost is not very high, I think it's worth trying.

Want to give me anymore detail on how/why the pain is becoming intolerable?  Can you describe?   I know you had recently gotten a stem cell injection.   In my case, after receiving the stem cell injection, it was kind of a big setback until I got the next PRP (4 weeks later).   That helped to settle the inflammation/pain associated with the injection and got me back to where I had been just prior to it, if that makes sense.  I'm just wondering if something similar is happening to you.   If so, perhaps try to get the next PRP sooner rather than later.

If wanted, feel free to PM me as well.

[dal_knee]

Updating on Iovera.   I had my follow up yesterday, and doc agrees that he more than likely missed a couple of sub-branches.   So I will try the whole thing again in 10 days.

Zminem, if you read this, can you post an update on your end? 

[zminem]

Hey guys,

I have met with the Dr who does Iovera in my area (south florida), but we chose not to do itm because I have pain in the lateral side of my knee (outer side) and he said it only work on the anterior (front) and medial (inner side). He said the lateral side is supplied by a deeper nerve that the Iovera needle tip won't reach. However, he mentioned something about a second generation Iovera tips that can do the job but its not still out in the market or something, Anyway, I didn't do it and decided to save that $1200 bucks he wanted to charge me for Iovera.

I heared about "Coolief" Cooled Radiofrequency, and I found a doctor who is doing it in my area so I will try it soon and share my experience with you guys.

I'm also doing a PRP in 2 weeks. I have done many PRPs and stem cells injections, they do help but only to a certain extent and the pain seem to stay in a plateau. I think its important to address the structural issues as long as the pain so that's why I want to keep do PRPs + stem in combination of Iovera or Coolief and hope to have a better outcome and less pain.

Just to let you know I have a lateral meniscal tear in my left knee as a result of a sport injury and two failed surgeries after that.

Let's keep posting and with the advancement in technology and biomedical research there must be a way to treat our knees it just that we need to find it amid all these quacky treatments and money drains!!

Cheers,
Z

[dal_knee]

I just PM'd you.   

Thanks for updating, you've shared some great info on where Iovera is weak.   If this 2nd round doesn't work to my satisfaction, will consult for Coolief. 

[Sam/Marsha]

I just had iovera in my knee today as I am having partial knee surgery in a week.  After reading some of these reviews, I am not sure I would have had this procedure.  My procedure went very well and I didn't have any pain at all.  I am not numb, just pain free.  I would never have a procedure that caused excruciating pain.  Why would I want that.  Might as well have the surgery and deal with the pain with pain pills. 

[dal_knee]

San/Marsha
No provider is giving a heads up on how excruciating the procedure is. Definitely not my "choice" in deciding and hindsight is 20/20.  Did your provider apply nerve block prior to Coolief? Did he/ she discuss all process steps ?  Additionally it makes no sense that Coolief would be needed 1-week prior to partial knee replacement , if I'm understanding you correctly. PKR would result in massive pain relief in 2-3 weeks post op. Typically back to work in that timeframe.