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Author Topic: knee stem cells uk  (Read 11145 times)

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Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #75 on: September 08, 2015, 06:24:00 PM »
I agree vickster but surgeons in the NHS usually opt to not operate and play the conservative approach anyhow, if we were in the states this may be different, for example I have been told that I shouldn't run anymore in the UK and thats that, but surgeons in both Malaysia and USA have said they can fix me up so I can run, the truth is I could run now but I don't want to accelerate anymore wear until the joint is stable and the osteophyte has been removed
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 06:25:41 PM by rs00201 »

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #76 on: September 08, 2015, 08:15:41 PM »
You can have arthroscopy privately. But perhaps they are unwilling to operate as it's unnecessary and won't be of benefit. I know lots of people who've had operations on the NHS which were required. Myself in the past for example. Surgery should be a last resort even if you have private insurance in my view. In some countries doctors are too eager to operate because that's how they earn hundreds of thousands every year ;)

Perhaps dal knee can share her knee surgery experience :)

Has the NHS surgeon refused to remove the osteophyte?

It's your cash and knee however, just don't expect a miracle or a knee that is the same as pre injury as it rarely happens that way :) even in young athletes with 24/7 access to top physios, specialists, coaches, nutritionists, the newest experimental therapies
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 08:49:05 PM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline bradyj7

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #77 on: September 08, 2015, 08:52:19 PM »
Unless you have a full thickness focal defect of the articular cartilage then there is no point having surgery. If you do, there are some options, but none of them will give fantastic results - OATS, ACI etc. If you don't have a focal defect then there really is no point having surgery. The surgeon can't really do anything when he goes in other than debride a rough edge but this is generally not advisable and you won't be better off.  if it is just thinning of the cartilage then your best option is to modify your activities, bike, swim, core, and keep the quad/glutes strong with one legged weight bearing squats etc. Stop running if that hurts it - running is 8 times your body weight through your knee.  unfortunately there is no surgeon on the planet who can grow cartilage, thats why we are all here :( if you do have this osteopyte debrided, stell cells currently will not regrow full thickness cartilage. I don't think the osteophyte will damage the other cartilage. Best leave it be. You won't find anybody including me who will recommend microfracture. It will change your life for ever.

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #78 on: September 08, 2015, 11:37:07 PM »
Thanks for the responses guys, if there's an osteophyte there, it must be a full articular defect through to the bone.  Dr Saw and Dr Broyles have both shown that they can regrow full thickness cartilage defects, the osteophyte wont necessarily damage the surrounding cartilage but will rub away at the meniscus until i'm bone on bone which is what I want to avoid and why im thinking not to have a debridement but a microfracure as performed by Saw.

I haven't discussed the knee issue with the surgeon yet, still working on the hip at the moment. I'm not expecting a miracle knee but what to do all that I can so I can prevent further degradation.  Attached is the knee x-ray while we are at it

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #79 on: September 08, 2015, 11:46:04 PM »
I can't see anything on the X-ray, as the arrow is in the way but looking at where the arrow is, is it on a WB surface?  If not, how will it rub away? It's not next to another bony surface it is! Yes it could irritate the soft tissue and structures around it potentially , but that's not the same as worsening arthritis, there's no inevitability with any of this stuff. Bone spurs are  either congenital or developmental (exostosis) while I think osteophytes form in response to cartilage degradation, but perhaps not only grade 4?

Joint space looks even though to my very untrained eye

If you've not discussed the knee, how do you know they won't treat the osteophyte? Are you slightly valgus aligned?

Anyhow hope you find the answers you are looking for, wherever that might be :)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 11:49:16 PM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #80 on: September 09, 2015, 01:16:47 AM »
Hi vickster,

I've actually measured the joint space and your correct their both around 5mm, but just below the arrow there is an irregularity at the end of the femur, not sure what WB means, yes I agree it could be stable but when I move I feel it catching and will thus only get worse, this isn't from birth as when I was training to years ago I felt my bones crack together which is never a good sign.  Obviously I will need an MRI before considering further treatment but I imagine it's a full thickness defect, if it's not great perhaps I'll just get a couple of blasts of stem cells.

Have you sent tour xrays of to Malaysia vickster, they really are quite good at looking at them for free and letting you know what they think, even if you don't want their treatment it might be good to see what they say they could do for you

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #81 on: September 09, 2015, 08:14:50 AM »
WB - weight bearing. I still can't see anything, can you post the image again without the arrow?

I don't have copies of X Rays only MRIs. No I've not sent anything anywhere, as I have no Intention of doing anything and I'm happy with my knee surgeon and not seeking any treatment currently.
As I've said, my current issues are due to PFS, likely due to weak glutes and tight calves (diagnosed by two physios) and am working on the muscles with physio. She may send me back to the specialist but there likely isn't anything that can be done. Stem cells won't help muscle imbalance and poor posture!

We believe the lateral discomfort is also due to the bone spur which is inoperable due to high risk of peroneal nerve damage
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 08:28:28 AM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #82 on: September 09, 2015, 11:45:49 AM »
yes will do later but the arrow isn't blocking anything, the osteophyte is below the arrow

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #83 on: September 09, 2015, 11:47:28 AM »
Sorry it must be quite small, I can't really see on ipad or laptop :)  The end of the bone looks a tiny bit different to the other leg.  Not to worry.  I can normally only see things on imaging when actually pointed out by the specialist, the exostosis on my fibula was more obvious and I'm told that's small
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 11:50:07 AM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #84 on: September 09, 2015, 03:08:50 PM »
yes it is small, but will only get larger with time

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #85 on: September 09, 2015, 03:49:14 PM »
I'm not sure if that is actually inevitable with time. You mention crunching, injury doesn't lead to bone spurs, they are a reaction to wear and tear degeneration from what I've read.  Have you been through all of the primers in the learning hub on here? You seem to be expecting the worst, non or low impact exercise, weight loss, strong and balanced muscles in hips and legs are as useful in slowing arthritis as any surgery, especially if you are young and bones aligned. It doesn't seem like the bone spur is anything to do with the dislocation and patella fracture you have mentioned. As you've had no MRI, and the knee is stable presumably ligaments and meniscus are in tact. Also good for knee cartilage health
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 03:53:19 PM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #86 on: September 09, 2015, 04:56:41 PM »
Hi the ligaments will all be in tact correct as I had an MRI around 6 years ago and taken care of the knee since

I imagine there is some where on the meniscus due to the osteophyte

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #87 on: September 10, 2015, 12:19:34 AM »
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