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Author Topic: knee stem cells uk  (Read 11138 times)

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Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2015, 11:34:50 PM »
If you know what you are doing and understand the consequences, it's your body and your money

Get referred to the royal national orthopaedic in Stanmore and see what they can offer, experts in cartilage repair if you have a specific defects

I don't recall anyone on this forum who is self injecting anything on this forum for a number of years so not sure to where or whom you are referring

Good luck
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 04:34:03 PM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2015, 03:17:46 PM »
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« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 08:20:33 PM by rs00201, Reason: because »

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2015, 03:37:24 PM »
You need 20 posts to PM, get your count up in the games room (read the game rules first though ;) )
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2015, 04:02:44 PM »
if thats the case just need one more!

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2015, 09:23:51 AM »
£1600 stem cells for knee in Villair practice cambridge

combined with microfracture =£ 5000

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2015, 10:58:32 AM »
That's not inexpensive but you don't have to travel half way across the world, you'd have access to aftercare. They are in London as well as Cambridge I think

I'd personally have to be sure it would work before spending that sort of money and there's no guarantee. PRP around £500 I think, £250-300 for hyaluronic acid (cost me around £150 last time for the stuff,  I get the actual appointment covered by bupa)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 11:01:46 AM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2015, 01:14:31 PM »

 
 yes, just phoned them to clarify and they don't usually perform microfracture with stem cells, they just paste them in anthroscopically, the price can increase from 5000 for the knee.  They also don't use prp afterwards for growth so I imagine it all differs from the Malaysian method.  They claim a 80% success rate with stem cells.  They also stated that they have performed the procedure on many professional sports people with good results.  I've also emailed another surgeon who states that DR Saw method wont be available on the NHS for another 8 years, he was actually treated by DR Saw and recommended it.  I suppose its a gamble either way and I am fearful of spending a smaller amount of money on perhaps a less rigourous procedure than a large amount of money that has got a worldwide reputation.  How does insurance come into play with all this Vickster, I don't have insurance, can I simple get insurance and then expect them to help me pay for this kind of stuff
 
                                               
       

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2015, 01:30:54 PM »
No insurance company will cover you for usually 5 years as its a pre existing condition, you've had tests, a diagnosis. They usually only cover new conditions after the policy is taken out. And not even if you are waiting for appointments etc. I guess they might if you pay £20k a year for your premiums but then you may as well self pay!

Your only option might through work as some corporate health insurance policies are less restrictive, but that would depend on your company. A huge multinational might have a top unrestricted policy, a small company won't

Also a lot of insurance companies only cover experimental procedures like these if they are approved by NICE (I.e. NHS) unless part of a recognised trial, and then you'd be likely to be treated as an NHS patient anyhow

How do they measure success? 80% sounds high for something new, I'd want to see rigorous 5 year post procedure data, can't imagine that exists in the UK
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2015, 01:55:13 PM »

I ask the very same question regarding success, they stated that patients who couldn't wait bear returned to being pain free and walking comfortably and patients who couldn't play their support returning competitively, I suppose its all objective, so if I obtain health insurance now and disclose my knee problem would I beable to obtain insurance benefits in 5 years time and have them pay for knee treatments?

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2015, 02:14:21 PM »
That will depend on the policy, the higher the premiums, the better the cover. Also you would have had to have absolutely no treatment in those 5 years, arthritis is progressive usually, if that's what the issue is rather than an isolated trauma like an acl tear. Also I it's due to an auto immune disease, you'd likely have that for life, they don't cover any chronic conditions. Also most policies are limited in terms of cover, I have bupa, pay £150 a month and they won't cover endless physio for example. Also the younger you are, the lower the premiums, as you get older, you are considered more high risk. Obviously you'd need to pay the premiums continuously for 5 years, which will usually rise annually based on age and claims

Are the results due to the stem cells or to whatever else is fixed in the arthroscopy, like a meniscus tear, or tidy of ragged cartilage. I remain sceptical but then there are no guaranteed outcomes with any treatment ultimately
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 02:29:59 PM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2015, 03:10:31 PM »
yes I asked what the benefit of the additional stem cells was and they stated that in the majority of cases ~80% they notice a difference in people with stem cells than without.

So if you have an operation of an OA region in the joint and can generate cartlige and have a stable knee does that mean you no longer have OA?

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2015, 03:21:54 PM »
OA is more bone on bone, rather than softening or chondromalacia, is that what those people had?

..and what is actually crucial is 80% of how many, I'd want to see 1000s of people treated not 10s (I doubt they've done 1000s, how long have they been doing it). The outcomes sound pretty subjective, can they back up the results with MRI etc?

There's a good arthritis primer in the learning section which explains the aetiology

Most cartilage operations still don't produce the naturally occurring hyaline cartilage in defects, but rather fibrocartilage or scar tissue, which isn't as strong or pliable as the original stuff. Cartilage itself doesn't have nerves, the pain comes from inflammation in the joint or damage to the bone beneath the damaged cartilage

An insurance company won't look at the reason for the treatment usually, just that there has been some sort of treatment to the joint. But it depends on the policy, you need to carefully read the terms
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 03:46:19 PM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2015, 04:16:27 PM »
They said they have been doing it for 18 months, they said they have had athletes with degenerative knees (OA) and seen the compete on TV again, an example was a female show jumper with "severely" degenerated hips was able to be competitive again.

I don't think athritis is always bone on bone, for example I have early OA in the knee, i.e a subtle osteophyte with possible joint space narrowing, no bones touching yet, which is excatly what I want to prevent

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2015, 04:24:29 PM »
I'm not sure that's OA technically, rather softening or degeneration of the articular cartilage, not that the semantics matter

 Are you getting it done? Will they also remove the osteophyte if that's the source of pain?

I have a bone spur on the fibula head (in fact in both knees so assume congenital), unfortunately inoperable as the peroneal nerve runs right there, making surgery high risk for nerve damage and foot drop. It's also not injectable for the same reason!
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 04:26:12 PM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2015, 04:34:50 PM »
yes I need to get something done, just haven't decided where to go yet.  They said they will remove the osteophyte and if I need microfracture give me that also