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Author Topic: knee stem cells uk  (Read 11137 times)

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Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2015, 01:28:06 PM »
Human Growth Hormone. How would you inject it into your own joint space? It takes a skilled surgeon to do that effectively! It also has some potentially nasty side effects, hence its indication for children who require it only

Cartilage changes. In the left currently I have a 1.5cm2 cartilage defect on the weight bearing lateral condyle, this was filled with fibrocartilage after the trauma that caused this but an MRI 18 months ago showed that this was breaking down. That MRI also showed, a couple of degenerate meniscus tears and softening to other cartilage around the joint

The right has some softening and I've had the back of the patella tidied. I've got PFS at the mo

I also have exostoses (bone spurs) ouside the knee joint on both legs, and they do cause some pain and inflammation but they aren't operable due to risk of nerve damage

If Villar are doing  the stem cells during an arthroscopy, I'd be surprised if you'd get a lot of change from £4k
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 01:37:48 PM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2015, 03:42:25 PM »
I agree wrt Villar price - I think 3K rings a bell, but I also know that they will also give just injections without arthroscopic procedure.

These guys perform self injection and mention a poster on here who was doing it with good results ( Irentat )

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/152342-testosterone-suspension/

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/my-steroid-cycle-forum/584854-irentat-s-joint-repair-rebuilding-cycle.html

Whats the plan with your knee vickster?

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2015, 04:29:27 PM »
No plan for the left, it's mostly a symptomatic as long as I don't kneel or run. I'm doing physio for the right knee

You do know what side effects there are potentially with testosterone and HGH right, why these substances are banned in sport? And the issues that steroids can potentially cause especially if overused

On the other hand, as long as not allergic to the ingredients, hyaluronic acid is pretty safe. I've had three lots of injections into my left knee with no ill effect other than a bit of stiffness and fullness for a day or two. They are licensed for mild to moderate cartilage damage

Why have you not had the osteophyte removed if it's causing symptoms assuming there aren't very definite risks (as with the ones I have on the fibula)
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2015, 05:15:20 PM »
Are you in the uk, my impression is the OS doesn't want to do anything to my knee and is happy to let it deteriorate, which im not happy with, I want to return to running at least perhaps 5 miles a week.  Im 33 years old now, if I was 40 I would not be looking in to cartlige regrowth and just get on with it knowing I may need a replacement by 50, but If I want to run for the next 10 years I need to do something to prevent degradation and actually build cartlige.

The hgh injections have been shown to build cartilage and not just treat symptoms.  The negative effects of steroids are for prolonged systemic over use.  It's a perfectly legal practice in some parts of the usa, I just can't afford a flight to florida every time I want hgh put into my knee

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2015, 05:35:25 PM »
Yes I'm in the UK, near London

I'm 43 and slightly knock kneed. I generally manage ok. I wasn't a candidate for cartilage repair 5 years ago as a result of kissing defects

 I'm a cyclist not a runner, having now had lateral menisectomies in both knees I've been told to avoid impact exercise. Managed 100 miles on the bike in a day a few weeks ago, about 2000 for the year. Knees mostly ok, steep long hills not ideal but it's pretty flat around here! The exostosis gives me most pain but I just live with that

I'm not really interested in experimental stuff. I have an excellent OS and physios and go with their advice

If HGH etc were that good for arthritis , the manufacturers would be doing proper worldwide trials and getting global approval. This has been talked about for many years now

Steroid injections can damage knee tissue, doesn't only need to be prolonged.
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2015, 05:51:18 PM »
I'm in surrey here and also cycle, but prefer to run, so if you didn't have a kissing lesion what procedure would you have got?  Would that have been available on the nhs? as I don't have a kissing lesion but just been told to not wear the knee out.

Is it just in your medial cartlige?

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2015, 06:12:36 PM »
I'm in Sutton so Surrey too albeit the more urban bit

Lateral cartilage, femur and tibia. Medial possibly too now I'd need to dig out the MRI

I was due to have MACI (privately) by one of the royal national orthopaedic surgeons. I had the arthroscopy but didn't proceed to the harvest and next stage. Yes it can be done on the NHS, or could while the international active trial was going on. Indeed now that's finished, the private companies are even more reluctant. I had a right fight to get it approved, my local surgeon had to refer me although he had a surgical option which they wouldn't fund!

Why is your knee wearing? Have you had meniscus removed? Are you misaligned? Unusual at your age. What symptoms do you have?


Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2015, 08:17:57 PM »
The right knee is following a rugby injury 10 years ago, the left meniscus as now started to wear a bit but had a whole host of problems this year with my hips, fai - labral tears, have an MRI anthogram on Friday.  Truth is I suspect I have an inflammatory condition but the Drs that be insist its wear and tear because of over use.

How would I get my OS to take the left knee more serious, I really want to have cartilage regeneration options open to me. 

I have also seen that you have communicated with MDLAL re: stem cells, prp, are you aware of his location?

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2015, 08:32:26 PM »
Hi brady whats the problem with your knee?

yes I think stem cells are the way forward, I don't think the clinical trials will say they don't work, they may identify areas in which it does and doesn't and / or refine the techniques but I think its just the beginning

But I don't want to wait.  Please let me now any info you find from the conference, are you in the uk and / or aware of any trials?

Offline bradyj7

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2015, 08:49:25 PM »
Hi,

I live in Ireland, across the pond. I'm 27.

Yeah, we are only at the start of the stem cell revolution, if we are lucky they might have something in 5 years but I suspect much longer. The truth is there are no regeneration techniques at least not for general wear and tear. For traumatic damage there are options (I had one) but you're rarely pain free.   They simply cannot grow cartilage.

Sure I'll let you know what I learn.

This is what I'm getting. I wish the article provided more details about the damage, before after images etc. The whole thing could be made up!

http://www.wndu.com/home/headlines/Stem-cell-procedure-could-fix-sports-related-injuries-322532602.html





Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2015, 09:08:47 PM »
Can you get a second opinion? See Richard Villar privately for a consultation
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2015, 09:12:09 PM »
Are you just having the one treatment?

I wonder if they could provide you with your harvested stem cells in a freezer container and you could inject yourself?

Is your change degenerative now? 

How did you find this place was it recommended to you.  I know in Ireland there is a stem cell / regenerative medicine speciality centre.  I emailed them asking if they can provide treatments and / or recommend a place where the cells are allowed to be harvested instead of just centrifuged.  No response

How long is your required stay in the treatment centre?


Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2015, 09:16:50 PM »
Re:  seing villar privately is an option - I've had to pay 3k on private MRI's as my GP said I didn't require imaging, the nhs is a joke.

I know there is a service where you can choose a surgeon on the NHS, are you aware if I could go this route and get it for free.  I've also just found the chester knee clinic which says they perform stem cells.

I know they also do it in Southampton David gotta, my GP however wont refer me and insist I pay her for the referral as it's not standard work 

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2015, 09:56:49 PM »
£3k on MRIs? There's a place at waterloo does for around £300. How many have you had and where?

You can only choose a hospital I believe, not the specialist, called choose and book. Sometimes a GP can swing it if they have a strong link with a surgeon or there are only a few experts who can do a surgery where definitively indicated (like a meniscus transplant)

A private consult is around £250, choose a surgeon with a full has practice and you can get switched to an NHS list, but only for surgeries, nothing experimental. These aren't NICE approved mostly (like MACI for example) due to lack of evidence

What is the impact on your function of the knee issue? Are you under a pain management team?

Having had injections into a joint space, there is no way you could do it yourself, it's not like an insulin shot. The needle is large, you would never be able to relax, or get the needle at the right place. If you miss the joint space and hit the bone, it's very painful! I had it with one of the HA injections when I wasn't relaxed enough
I'd also be very concerned about infection, not good in a joint

Looks like stem cells at Chester knee is only in combination with cartilage defect repair, not as a standalone
http://www.kneeclinic.info/stem_cell_therapies.php

And the clinic is a private service pretty much exclusively


« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 11:27:25 PM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2015, 11:28:53 PM »
Hi,

essentially I had my entire body mri'd, both hips, left knee, si joints, lumbar, cervical and thoracic spine, just under 3k around 2.5k, then paid private for rheumatologists etc, two opinions at 350 a pop also so a private GP twice as my nhs one is s**t , body fell apart at the beginning of the year, had gut pain etc, cut all starch from my diet and the joint pain went away, but im left with some damage, I have a crunch in my left hip which Im having an mri anthogram on Friday and possible surgery for what they think is fai, but I know inflammatory conditions can mimic fai.  So im on a quest to heal my body as much as I can been as I haven't been given any treatment, Have oreder a s**t ton of probiotics online, low dose naltrexone, am also looking into getting antibiotics to help.  But the main limitting factor is my knee from a rugby injury.  The knee wasn;t really causing many problems I can still jog with just a little swelling which I'm use to, ached a little yesterday after a 30 mile cycle but Im very interested in preserving the cartlige I have.  Have a brother in law age 39 whose knee is essentially naturally fused because of poorly managed OA.

Theres lots of guys doing self administration of hgh into the knee, obviously the hip would be extremely difficult but I think i could manage the knee















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