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Author Topic: knee stem cells uk  (Read 11136 times)

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Offline tlkkkk

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knee stem cells uk
« on: August 21, 2015, 04:12:43 PM »
HI

Has anyone had stem cells for the knee in the uk, are they aware of good places for this and / or what methods are used.  I know in the states the fda has blocked the processing of the cells, is this the case in the uk?  How about Europe?

Also anyone have any idea of cost in the uk?

Thanks

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2015, 05:07:14 PM »
As far as I'm aware there is no access to stem cell treatment for knee issues, except perhaps as part of a clinical trial. What issue are you seeking to treat? PRP is available, but not on the NHS. Some private insurance may cover for certain conditions (not sure on knees, possibly tendinitis, I've had it for tennis elbow before), otherwise again depending on your issue, you'd need to find a specialist with the expertise and equipment and pay, usually £500+ per treatment

Both are more readily accessible in Eastern Europe, you'd be best discussing with your knee specialist before doing anything
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline bradyj7

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2015, 06:29:08 PM »
I could not find stem cell treatment in the UK.

There is a European project called ADIPOA running a clinical trial http://adipoa2.eu/

I am travelling to this doctor next month to get it sooner. http://slynarski.com/

It probably won't work but noting else to try.


 

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2015, 06:35:39 PM »
The trial appears to be for advanced OA

Rs0021 doesn't say what his issue is
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline bradyj7

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2015, 07:59:17 PM »
Surely if it is for advanced OA then it would work on early OA? Is there a difference?

Offline bradyj7

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2015, 09:08:30 PM »
oh i see you mean selection for the trial...bit slow sorry....yes your right...I tried to get involved but the dr wouldn't accept me on those grounds

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2015, 09:15:42 PM »
Maybe but that isn't how clinical trials work. The subjects have to meet very specific criteria, in this case advanced OA presumably as seen on X-ray or MRI or however else the protocol is designed. If a patient does not meet these strict criteria, they will be excluded. Once it's licensed and indicated, there may be extensions to the label as it's known in time with further extended trials 

However if the license is only for advanced OA that's how it will have to be used and more importantly how it's funded. Doctors aren't permitted to ignore the license, they good be in big trouble if a patient has an adverse event to the treatment when used outside the license. Side effects have to be monitored and reported according to strict guidelines.

There is 'off label' use of some treatments, for example in cancer (something may be indicated for one type of cancer but used in another with similar characteristics) but that's for life threatening disease more, which OA isn't
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2015, 09:17:16 PM »
We cross posted :)

What's up with your knee?
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2015, 03:18:18 AM »
Hi

I have possible joint space narrowing with a subtle osteophyte in my right knee, and some increase signal intensity on MRI in my left knee.  I know Cambridge villar practice offer stem cell therapy,

Is anyone aware of the best places in Europe for such procedures, bradyj7 how much you paying for your treatment and whats the damage to your knee.  I would prefer to ue stem cells that have been harvested so theres more of them, is anyone aware of where  can get this kind of treatment?

I have been in touch wit Dr saw Malaysia who has said my knee images don't seem that bad, so I think he is erring away from his micro-fracture stem cell approach

Offline bradyj7

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2015, 10:31:23 PM »
Hi,

I had a cartilage lesion on the femoral condyle repaired a few years ago - but I still have pain. I had a second look scope done this year which showed the lesion had healed well but with some irregularity of the cartilage as expected.



The cost is 2,000 euro and I'm booked for the end of Sept.

Do you have a price for villar?

Villar's webpage describes doing a scope to harvest the cells from bone marrow which is different to what I am getting. Apparently the way is using liposuction on adipose tisse (fat tissue) to harvest them and then injecting them into the knee. This is what that European trial is using.

From a google search there is a lot of interest in stem cells and trials going on but unfortunately litle proven evidence.

Your MRI sounds quite good. I would be cautious of going to Malaysia.

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2015, 10:39:59 PM »
Have you tried hyaluronic injections for mild to moderate cartilage issues?
Ive had them over the last few years and they work really well (I have a lateral co duke defect with fibro that is slowly breaking down, meniscus tears, other bits of soft cartilage).

They are minimally invasive and can be available of the NHS or some private insurers will fund at least one round too
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2015, 12:04:48 PM »
Thanks for the replies guys,

No I haven't received an email back from Villair practice.  The right knee mri isn't too bad correct, i'm more concerned with the early degeneration in the right knee.  My OS has said to not run any more to preserve the knee which is rather depressing and advised against any HGH or stem cell work saying its experimental.  I however want to act immediately to help regenerate any damage in the right knee with the aim of rebuilding any cartilage loss.  I'm concerned about the small osteophyte and ideally would want someone to shave it back and give stem cells to regrow cartilage in that area.  My concern with the hyaluronic is that it is just a pain supressor rather than a regenerating mechanism, is that a correct assumption?

This morning I have emailed a few prolotherapy units and asked if they also combine their injections with HGH.  Are you aware of any uk or europe based HGH procedures, if that could at least tie me over until I find a more permanent fix which I can only imagine being a more invasive approach combined with various stem cells and growth factors.

I am even considering self injection of HGH, I notice one user on this forum was a supporter of this, anyone have any experience?
 

Offline vickster

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2015, 12:12:36 PM »
Why not telephone Villar's secretary if no email response

I've never heard of HGH being used in the UK for arthritis, it's not licensed for that use

HA helps lubricate the joint, can aid healing after arthroscopy (I had it first for that reason) and reduce inflammation for these reasons
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09 (lat meniscus, lat condyle defect)
LK scopes 8/2/10 & 16/12/10
RK scope 5/2/15 (menisectomy, Hoffa’s fat pad trim)
LK scope 10.1.19 medial meniscectomy, trochlea MFX
LK scope 19.4.21 MFX to both condyles & trochlea, patella cartilage shaved, viscoseal, depo-medrone

Offline tlkkkk

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2015, 12:39:12 PM »
yes will do,

so do you have athritis in the knee vickster

Offline bradyj7

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Re: knee stem cells uk
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2015, 12:53:26 PM »
Hi,

Sorry what does HGH stand for?

I'm the same as you rs00201, I just want to prevent further degeneration, if that's even possible. Adipose-Derived Mesenchymal Stem Cells are really just experimental at this stage, I wish it was more advanced, I think were at least 5 years away from that, well thats what the that trial is aiming for. But equally the results may find that stem cells are in fact useless. The way I look at it, 2,000 is worth a punt.

I'm going to this conference http://www.eu-msc2.blogspot.nl/ to learn more about it.