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Offline fraz

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Clinics
« on: July 02, 2015, 11:36:45 AM »
Hi,

Just a question about a knee clinic in Germany, ATOS - This is with reference to knees and a surgeon by the name of Prof Dr Med Rainer Siebold -

Does anyone have any knowledge of this clinic? - I've put this in the general section but it could be applicable to the meniscus, cruciate [ACL PCL] and cartilage [articular] forums-

I've heard others speak of the good UK surgeons and one or two in Belgium but I've not seen any pertaining to this clinic or surgeon in particular.

Any info thanks.

Offline Kaputt_Knee

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Re: Clinics
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2015, 12:45:47 PM »
There are several ATOS-Kliniks in Germany which one are you looking at?

They are mainly private clinics, I know the Munich one used to be run by Professor Toft and was called the Alpha Clinic back then and had a good if pricey reputation.

If you are looking for a good surgeon recommendation I can thoroughly recommend my surgeon who is part of the state system as well as the private one. He is listed here as well: Dr Horst Müller-Kittnau of the Ortho Zentrum Rosenheim (Orthopaedic Centre Rosenheim).

Sue  :)
1989 big trauma R. knee - sorted
1990-2004 3ACL recons and 20+ arthroscopies -RK
3/06 LK ACL torn!
4/06 ACL recon, kneecap broken
09 &10/06- 2x meniscus trims
3/07 - Notch Plastic & Lateral Release
14/8/08 complete revision ACL plus LCL/PLC recon
6/2/09 returned to skiing! Whoopee

Offline fraz

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Re: Clinics
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2015, 02:36:19 AM »
Hello Sue,

Heidelberg is one of the ATOS clinics that I was reading about - and the surgeon named in the above post.  I did see a reference to the Munich clinic too but didn't look at this clinic yet.

Its just being aware of the options available with costs attached - Belgium has one or two very good options as does the UK and probably quite a number of the countries within europe.

As for pricey - yes its all pricey - but there is pricey and there is pricey :)  - Its whether or not the prices are reasonable enough

Thanks for the name of the surgeon you mentioned - He is on the Actifit surgeons list in Germany so must be an experienced "meniscus" surgeon-
« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 02:55:48 AM by fraz »

Offline Kaputt_Knee

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Re: Clinics
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2015, 07:31:47 AM »
He is a 100% knee specialist Fraz!

He basically rebuilt my knee after it had been messed up by a poor ACL reconstruction followed by what were probably 3 further operations that attempted to correct the mistakes. The original team wanted to put in a new knee, claiming I had grade 4 arthritic damage. When Dr Müller-Kittnau went in, he found the degrading of the surfaces to be absolutely no worse than Grade 2, so I would have undergone a TKR completely unnecessarily had I stayed with the original team! Unusually for a top surgeon he also wanted me to take the original doctor to court and sue him for malpractice and compensation (I lost my job as a result of being off work for so long). I was just happy to get my life back and refused, he still teases me about it when I see him!

His English is excellent by the way, although he is very Bavarian in his manner and German. As I live here, he only speaks to me in German, he says he's helping me with my integration as he puts it! He is also a very keen sportsman and understands people's need to return to sport.
1989 big trauma R. knee - sorted
1990-2004 3ACL recons and 20+ arthroscopies -RK
3/06 LK ACL torn!
4/06 ACL recon, kneecap broken
09 &10/06- 2x meniscus trims
3/07 - Notch Plastic & Lateral Release
14/8/08 complete revision ACL plus LCL/PLC recon
6/2/09 returned to skiing! Whoopee

Offline fraz

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Re: Clinics
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2015, 05:44:58 PM »
Hi,

So glad to read you got things sorted with a real knee specialist - Are you English living in Germany or German with excellent English? :)

I did look into the info you left for this surgoen and saved some info to look again later - What were the costs you were charged if you don't mind me asking?

Where did you have the surgery that was messed up? -
and to think that you could have had A TKR - Well done for saying NO -

Speaking of bad ACL ops I saw a picture of an incorrectly placed ACL online and an arrow of where it should have been together with a picture of a relocated ACL and it was way off - I thought to myself how can that be? - that a massive not a mistake can be made like that?

Offline Kaputt_Knee

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Re: Clinics
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2015, 07:02:34 PM »
I'm a Brit living and working in Germany, and will soon be a German citizen as I'm giving up my British citizenship. I have no intention of returning, am disenfranchised any way in the UK, so I may as well get myself fully integrated into German life.

My injury was suffered in the course of my work, so I was covered by Industrial Injury Insurance, and therein lay a part of the problem. The surgeon who did the initial incorrectly placed ACL was one approved by the Industrial Injuries Insurance people (not all doctors/surgeons are). He is an outstanding shoulder and arm surgeon but absolutely useless with knees it appears. The first surgery was carried out at the Kreiskrankenhaus in Rosenheim. The attempts at corrective surgery were carried out by surgeons (extremely good ones but hamstrung by the insurance) at the Industrial Injuries Clinic in Murnau near Garmisch-Partenkirchen. In the end they excluded further meniscus treament on age grounds, which was when I was free to get a second opinion. Dr Müller-Kittnau apparently has experience of revising my first surgeon's work so he was full on and forced the Berufsgenossenschaft (Industrial Injuries/Worker's Compensation) to take on all the costs.

BTW the first surgeon also broke my knee cap while harvesting 50% of my patella tendon (usually only 25% max is taken!) and failed to inform me, along with the fact that he had attempted to harvest a graft from my hamstring. He also missed a completely avaulsed LCL and a fractured fibula head. It was quite a cock up all round!  :o :o

I believe the costs for all operations are the same, the variations in prices come down to the type of patient room and after surgery stay. Some clinics are 5 star hotel standard, others are functional! Best to discuss that with each of the places you are looking at. Heidelberg I suspect will be a bit more expensive than Rosenheim simply due to its higher profile and that there is a large US presence there. Rosenheim is not so high profile but is a nice location on the edge of the Bavarian border with Austria about 40 miles SE of Munich.

1989 big trauma R. knee - sorted
1990-2004 3ACL recons and 20+ arthroscopies -RK
3/06 LK ACL torn!
4/06 ACL recon, kneecap broken
09 &10/06- 2x meniscus trims
3/07 - Notch Plastic & Lateral Release
14/8/08 complete revision ACL plus LCL/PLC recon
6/2/09 returned to skiing! Whoopee

Offline fraz

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Re: Clinics
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2015, 04:23:16 AM »
Thank you so much for your open communication - :) - Your surgeon obviously stepped in and took some responsibility to get you back on track - much needed and great to read - I hope you are getting better and better and better- ;) - How much of your knee have you regained the use of? - 
My good knee is worse than my bad knee now as the bad knee has improved after prolotherapy / SVF PRP etc... that is positive -  but the injures to the joint are beyond the potential of injections as the mechanical deficiencies need correcting -

I'm sorry to hear that you mentioned being disenfranchised from the UK and have no plans to return -

I've never visited Germany and would wish to get the treatment in the UK but I'm prepared to travel if necessary - The pictures of Heidelberg looked very beautiful indeed -
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 05:47:05 AM by fraz »