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Author Topic: Healed bone bruise but knee catching  (Read 4238 times)

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Offline kneegurubro

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Healed bone bruise but knee catching
« on: January 14, 2015, 08:58:28 PM »
I had a blow to the knee and i think its almost healed but when i fully extend my knee straight out there is a small catching just as it fully extends, and then just as i lower it and sometimes when i walk (bringing the leg forwards), this goes when i go stretching exercises but it always comes back, how can i prevent it coming back? the same exercises? they only make it go for a while

Offline MDAL

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Re: Healed bone bruise but knee catching
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2015, 09:17:28 PM »
Where does it catch? What zone?

Do you mean it actually locks all of a sudden, or like a progressive resistive force as you try to stretch?

Offline kneegurubro

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Re: Healed bone bruise but knee catching
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2015, 12:25:14 AM »
When i feel it it's just below the center of the knee, and inside the middle of the knee, at the moment it happens after i fully extend the knee fully while sitting in a chair, so that it's in a straight line, and just as i'm bringing it down the catching occurs, it used to lock sometimes but not for a fortnight though it may happen again, it was when going up or down stairs that happened though i think that's mostly alright now, i'm just concerned about the catching

Offline kneegurubro

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Re: Healed bone bruise but knee catching
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2015, 12:29:17 AM »
Also the MRI showed a small popliteal cyst and bone oedema, and a cyst is supposed to cause catching but does the catchign go away on it's own or any exercises to accelerate it?

Offline dal_knee

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Re: Healed bone bruise but knee catching
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2015, 03:06:16 AM »

Is your pain located in front of the knee or back of the knee?? The popliteal cyst location  is in the back.  Please consider dry needling as an adjunctive treatment to whatever else you may be trying.   

In your description, you suffered a direct blow to the knee ( I assume frontal ), the resulting bone edema can take 9 to 17 months to heal.  I recommend trying dry needling, as well as A.R.T.  for this time period. 

2007 - partial medial meniscectomy
2010 - full thickness chondral defect & adjacent subchondral edema MFC.   Direct result of stupid partial mensicectomy from 2007.
2014 - Subchondroplasty, chondroplasty, unauthorized 2nd partial medial meniscectomy.
2015 - partial failure of subchondroplasty.

Offline MDAL

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Re: Healed bone bruise but knee catching
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2015, 11:44:06 AM »
You didn't answer the question if it's a sudden catch or a progressive resistive force...

Catching as sudden lock can occur for example if there is loose debris such as a piece of loose cartilage, or in case of a meniscus tear, that can flip and get trapped in the joint as it moves. Or a myriad of other circumstances...

However the reason I asked if it is a sudden lock or a just a progressive resistive force is that while you were recovering you might have had a lot of inflammation and maybe reduced activity or had the joint immobilized. Whenever this happens people tend to loose ROM(range of motion), both in extension and bending. If you mean a resistive force that doesn't really let you extend but does improve temporarily with extension exercises, this could be just it, some loss of ROM that you need to recover with PT.

For the moment, you have no other chance than to chase doctors and maybe get a few opinions, although you might not always be taken fully serious since it's nothing broken and doctors don't always care much... imaging devices such as MRIs are far more limited than people give it credit for including in finding loose debris or meniscus tears... so doctors may not always have a clear idea of what it is and need to resort to "guesses".


Offline MDAL

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Re: Healed bone bruise but knee catching
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2015, 11:55:32 AM »

Is your pain located in front of the knee or back of the knee?? The popliteal cyst location  is in the back.  Please consider dry needling as an adjunctive treatment to whatever else you may be trying.   

In your description, you suffered a direct blow to the knee ( I assume frontal ), the resulting bone edema can take 9 to 17 months to heal.  I recommend trying dry needling, as well as A.R.T.  for this time period.

Dry needling as "pocket solution" from healers and pseudo doctors is just meant to trigger a local inflammatory reaction in the hope that it will heal from that... it is a very long shot which can as well cause more damage than it solves from that inflammatory reaction and messing with needles all over the place...

ART is for arthro-fibrosis, cases of extreme loss of Range of Motion... there is no information if this guy has any fibrosis, only that he feels some vaguely explained catching which the actual cause has not been diagnosed by anyone...

Offline Lottiefox

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Re: Healed bone bruise but knee catching
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2015, 12:43:38 PM »
I am guessing in this case ART is referring to Active Release Therapy rather than AF?
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Offline kneegurubro

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Re: Healed bone bruise but knee catching
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2015, 12:47:10 PM »

Is your pain located in front of the knee or back of the knee?? The popliteal cyst location  is in the back.  Please consider dry needling as an adjunctive treatment to whatever else you may be trying.   

In your description, you suffered a direct blow to the knee ( I assume frontal ), the resulting bone edema can take 9 to 17 months to heal.  I recommend trying dry needling, as well as A.R.T.  for this time period.
Back of the knee, will do but he said all i needed was stretching exercises, though i'm not sure if they will remove the catching permanently

Offline MDAL

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Re: Healed bone bruise but knee catching
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2015, 12:51:33 PM »
Quote
I am guessing in this case ART is referring to Active Release Therapy rather than AF?

No, Active Release Therapy as a method of improving ROM caused by AF. Not rather.... one is the solution the other is supposed to be the problem

Quote
ART® – A Better Solution

ART® stands for Active Release Techniques®. It is a new and highly successful hands-on treatment method to address problems in the soft tissue of the body, including the muscles, ligaments, fascia, and nerves. ART® treatment is highly successful in dealing with knee injuries because it is specifically designed to locate and treat scar-tissue adhesions that accumulate in the muscles and surrounding soft tissue. Locating and treating the soft-tissue adhesions with ART® allows the practitioner to:

    break up restrictive adhesions
    reinstate normal tissue flexibility and movement
    more completely restore flexibility, balance, and stability to the injured area and to the entire kinetic chain

Offline kneegurubro

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Re: Healed bone bruise but knee catching
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2015, 12:53:46 PM »
You didn't answer the question if it's a sudden catch or a progressive resistive force...

Catching as sudden lock can occur for example if there is loose debris such as a piece of loose cartilage, or in case of a meniscus tear, that can flip and get trapped in the joint as it moves. Or a myriad of other circumstances...

However the reason I asked if it is a sudden lock or a just a progressive resistive force is that while you were recovering you might have had a lot of inflammation and maybe reduced activity or had the joint immobilized. Whenever this happens people tend to loose ROM(range of motion), both in extension and bending. If you mean a resistive force that doesn't really let you extend but does improve temporarily with extension exercises, this could be just it, some loss of ROM that you need to recover with PT.

For the moment, you have no other chance than to chase doctors and maybe get a few opinions, although you might not always be taken fully serious since it's nothing broken and doctors don't always care much... imaging devices such as MRIs are far more limited than people give it credit for including in finding loose debris or meniscus tears... so doctors may not always have a clear idea of what it is and need to resort to "guesses".
I think it's progressive, yes i do have less ROM on the left leg and i'm doing exercises for that but could that be identified as the cause for the catching? It temporarily goes when i do the stretching exercise called iliotibial band stretch but it still keeps coming back

Offline MDAL

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Re: Healed bone bruise but knee catching
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2015, 01:05:20 PM »
Then if you say it's progressive we are not talking about the actual most common use of the word "catching", which is like an immediate lock when something gets trapped.

If it's ROM loss, then what you are saying is normal about it getting better during and after the exercise (while it warms up and stretches easily), and then return to loss. I was immobilized for 2 months following extensive surgery, then had a few more and each time my ROM went to zero and had to be recovered (not fully). Took me months of hard work. It keeps getting better or worse by moods during the day, but with continuous exercise it does improve.

If you still have inflammation, it can by itself change ROM during the day...

Here are some home exercises you can do, but ideally, get a PT to guide you through the process:

Sit like this while you are in the computer or watching TV for longer periods (without exaggeration):
http://www.roygardiner.com/images/legext01.jpg

Something under your foot then pressing the knee down by the femur:
http://www.mikereinold.com/wp-content/uploads/knee-extension-stretch2.jpg

Using a towel to move the foot towards you which makes the muscles and ligaments in the back of the leg stretch:
http://www.mikereinold.com/wp-content/uploads/towel-knee-extension-stretch1.jpg


There are more exercises, and there are better or worse ways to do them, the best is to get a good PT to guide you.

Note that if you were immobilized or had inflammation for a while, ligaments, muscles and tendons tend to get shorter... then you need to elongate them again... it's not a "click a button" solution, it's a long run work, takes time... but you will get there.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 01:09:52 PM by MDAL »

Offline kneegurubro

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Re: Healed bone bruise but knee catching
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2015, 10:25:34 PM »
I will try them, are there any other exercises suited to this situation where the muscles become shorter, or are the ones you mentioned good for treating this?

Offline MDAL

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Re: Healed bone bruise but knee catching
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2015, 10:33:51 PM »
There is a wealth of exercises... these are my favorites and they are focused on extension only.

Then there is also for strengthening the muscles in full extension...

So out there it's a big world, however you need more than 1 kind of exercise, you need to treat the leg as whole, and that is why a PT would be the best.

If you really insist on doing it on your own, try googling / youtube "ROM knee extension exercises" and/or similar strings and you will find massive loads of exercises.

Here's a list (do get some coffee):
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=knee+extension+exercise+

Offline kneegurubro

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Re: Healed bone bruise but knee catching
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2015, 02:28:36 PM »
Can the body heal or break down  loose cartilage in the knee by itself (if it's small), or does surgery need to be done if you want to fully repair or remove it?