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Author Topic: Chondrofiller for cartilage regeneration  (Read 6380 times)

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Offline papasmurf1978

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Chondrofiller for cartilage regeneration
« on: June 13, 2014, 10:34:24 AM »
Hi everyone,

I want to start a new topic on hot new product Germans brought to the market recently called Chondrofiller. It is a gel collagen injection that is going to regenerate cartilage hyaline collagen in the defect area.

Here's some info on the company and product:

http://www.amedrix.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=23&Itemid=130&lang=en

Here's a video of a polish newscast describing the procedure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WccioY4P77c

It's in polish and so am I so here's what I gathered from it

1. Procedure takes less than 1 hour to complete through micro scropy (2 tiny insertions)
2. It can be performed on individuals of 45 years of age or younger (reason being chance of cartilage regeneration is much higher in younger patients so they gave an age barrier)
3. Osteoarthritis patients cannot be treated
4. Patient can return to work after two weeks following the procedure (no more long rehabs)
5. Cartilage will regenerate to a hyaline like collagen and will resemble original cartilage surface
6. Procedure is performed in Europe already, not as clinical trials but as approved procedure

If anyone has more info on this new hot product, let's discuss it here.

Little about myself, I have hurt my knee in Feb. 2014. MRI showed I have a 6 mm large x 4 mm high involving less than 50% of cartilage of medial facet of patella signal that appeared on the MRI. Cardiologist diagnosed me with chondromalacia patella stage beginner. He said it's compatible with it but didn't say it was. However, my knee pops from time to time and I feel that it doesn't track properly on occasion so could be it. I began PT, I'm doing light squats and also sissy squats (check it out), which hopefully will realign my knees and also give me good muscle strenght. Also I'm grounding myself at work at home with earthing mat to keep the inflammation out.

So if anyone can share more info on this product, I'm sure lots of you heard about it.

Thanks to all!

Mariusz
3.
August 2014 MRI:
Mild Chondromalacia Patella in both knees
Normal cartilage thickness in both knee caps

Offline papasmurf1978

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Re: Chondrofiller for cartilage regeneration
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2014, 10:36:33 AM »
Here's the image of my right knee MRI.

If anyone is qualified to diagnose it and tell me if they see the cartilage signal radiologist was talking about I would really appreciate it.
August 2014 MRI:
Mild Chondromalacia Patella in both knees
Normal cartilage thickness in both knee caps

Offline Vickster

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Re: Chondrofiller for cartilage regeneration
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2014, 10:43:37 AM »
There are few medical specialists on this site and they won't be able to offer a diagnosis.  You would be better asking your doctor to explain the MRI to you, or a physiotherapist if you are seeing one may be able to help. The radiologist will have used hundreds of images to create the picture and not just one. A few things were found on my most recent MRI and they each came from a different image, noted in the report

Good luck :)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 10:46:24 AM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline papasmurf1978

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Re: Chondrofiller for cartilage regeneration
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2014, 01:17:43 PM »
My ortheo said to me that I have a "thing" behind the kneecap and that it's so small that it might never get bigger or lead to osteoarthritis. He guaranteed I will not have a knee replacement ever in life. Another sports medicine doctor gave the same guarantee. Now, is that only to not to worry me or a real diagnosis? They both said that everyone will have chondromalacia in their lifetime, some sooner than others especially if injury occured to the knee. Reason why mine was caught is because I got quad tendonitis, that is why I requested MRI and they found the chondromalacia stuff. I try not to worry but then again and looking for a solution to fix this before it might get worse.
August 2014 MRI:
Mild Chondromalacia Patella in both knees
Normal cartilage thickness in both knee caps

Offline Vickster

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Re: Chondrofiller for cartilage regeneration
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2014, 02:43:06 PM »
You could take supplements for bone/joint health - calcium, glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, Omega 3

Avoid anything that specifically loads the kneecap - lunges, squats, running.  Stick to low/no impact like swimming, biking (making sure the bike is correct, you don't grind, don't push up hills out of the saddle etc).  Winter sports accidents can be very unkind to knees.  Work with a physio to get a proper programme and form

Unfortunately, if you want to remain active, there is always a risk to joints, but there are so many other health and well being benefits that outweigh any risk.  Look for an e book called Saving my Knees by Doug Kelsey I think, about living with and settling patello femoral issues

It's easy to say don't worry, but if it's a tiny bit of wear (did you say 6mm2 somewhere, grade 2 or so?) , you should try to avoid getting over focused and live your life. 

Personally, I have all sorts of issues either caused by or exacerbated by cycling, but I won't give it up, I just try to moderate (including cartilage damage all over, two meniscus tears and a 1.5cm2 hole on the weight bearing thigh bone).  Life's too short, especially as no one can predict the future when it comes to articular cartilage.  If you are careful and are aligned ok, you'll likely be fine for many years to come :)
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline papasmurf1978

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Re: Chondrofiller for cartilage regeneration
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2014, 03:00:53 PM »
Hi Vickster,

Thanks for your message. You're right, life's too short to stay home and cry over it. It happened and we must accept it. My PT said that my knee caps aren't aligned properly so we are working on that. On top of it, he told me that I must do squats, he showed me proper way and not to go to 90 degrees but 45 for now. He said it's the best exercise for the knees even though there's wear and tear on the knee cap which everyone eventually will get.
August 2014 MRI:
Mild Chondromalacia Patella in both knees
Normal cartilage thickness in both knee caps

Offline Vickster

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Re: Chondrofiller for cartilage regeneration
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2014, 03:24:27 PM »
I am not sure about squats, wallslides with a swiss ball are ok.  You need to work on the whole leg, plus glutes, hips, core.   Especially if your malalignment is down to muscle imbalance rather than anatomical

I've lost a load of muscle bulk from my calf following an accident and surgery which is causing my issues, as well as a poor core!
Not much fun!
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline papasmurf1978

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Re: Chondrofiller for cartilage regeneration
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2014, 03:29:17 PM »
have you heard of sissy squats?

I'm doing them too. suppose to fix the patella alignment by activating and working VMO.

You had lots of stuff happened to you in your knee I read. How did you cope with the pain?

August 2014 MRI:
Mild Chondromalacia Patella in both knees
Normal cartilage thickness in both knee caps

Offline Vickster

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Re: Chondrofiller for cartilage regeneration
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2014, 03:45:42 PM »
Painkillers as needed, ice sometimes, I have hyaluronic acid injections to keep the knee moving, physio, just live with it I guess :)
 
This latest injury was far worse than anything I have had with the knee (massive haematoma to shin), that'll get better eventually too, just another war wound :)

I can't run, I can't kneel, but I can work, walk enough, cycle.  What's done is done, I am sure in 20 years I'll need some sort of new bits, but until then, it is what it is, no point freaking out :)
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline papasmurf1978

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Re: Chondrofiller for cartilage regeneration
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2014, 03:49:18 PM »
can I ask how did your knees get injured that much?
August 2014 MRI:
Mild Chondromalacia Patella in both knees
Normal cartilage thickness in both knee caps

Offline Vickster

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Re: Chondrofiller for cartilage regeneration
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2014, 04:48:39 PM »
I came off my bike in 09, tore the meniscus, ripped the hole in the condyle, also valgus aligned so cartilage softened and I couldn't have any repair done.  I am now 41 so age isn't on my side!  Always been on the heavy side which hasn't helped. Further meniscus tears, no specific trauma, just the tissue isn't in great shape.

 Latest injury, I was knocked off my bike!  Unlucky it seems!  It is as far as I know just one knee, although the other grumbles, I've never had any imaging done, I'd rather not know - one leg to worry about is enough :)
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline papasmurf1978

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Re: Chondrofiller for cartilage regeneration
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2014, 05:35:10 PM »
wow, hell of injuries you sustained. Did any doctor mentioned that you might have total knee replacement later in life with this kind of injury?
August 2014 MRI:
Mild Chondromalacia Patella in both knees
Normal cartilage thickness in both knee caps

Offline Vickster

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Re: Chondrofiller for cartilage regeneration
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2014, 05:47:54 PM »
Not specifically no.  However, a lot of the women in my family have had arthritic knees in the last, so I am probably destined that way any how.  No point worrying about it :) the injections and probably a clean out at some point will keep me ticking over :). Quite a lot of people need some joint or other replaced as they get old, there are worse things that can happen :).

 For sure, I am not going to start messing about with experimental methods unless there is no alternative.  I'll take the surgeon's advice ultimately, and try whatever he believes will work

I can function perfectly well 90% or more of the time within the limits of my knee, many are much worse off
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 05:49:50 PM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline papasmurf1978

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Re: Chondrofiller for cartilage regeneration
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2014, 06:00:43 PM »
Glad you see it that way. Knees are the worst part of the body if uncared for. I've been dealing with this for 3 months and am trying to keep the patience on my side. I'll definitelly get that defect fixed but I don't know if they will do it now since it's small. My patella rattles a tittle when moving it around with my hand so there's definitely something there. I think science will progress to the point that we'll be able to regrow anything in our bodies without replacing the whole joints. Where in the world are you from?
August 2014 MRI:
Mild Chondromalacia Patella in both knees
Normal cartilage thickness in both knee caps

Offline Vickster

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Re: Chondrofiller for cartilage regeneration
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2014, 06:08:32 PM »
The UK.  It's almost 5 years since the initial injury for me.  I find it's best if I try not to think about it. I was doing ok, until I got injured in February!  Could have been worse of course :) my knee pops and cracks, but that's not unusual, if there's no pain, don't worry about it and try not to make it do the crackly thing, you could make it worse ;) just get on with life . 

I would leave well alone if it's not too bothersome, surgery always carries a risk.  Unfortunately, there is no foolproof way to fix articular cartilage yet, so any attempt could leave you worse off.  I obsessed a lot at the beginning, now I try not to, just makes you miserable in the end. Room with it :).

I was going to have the hole repaired, although it was possible in the end.  However,I was told by the surgeon it was extremely painful, long period on crutches and in brace, a year to be back where I was and 2 or more to actual get the benefit.  I was pretty much fully functional although sore, I am actually really glad they didn't do it in the end :)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 06:15:04 PM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up