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Author Topic: Chondromalacia Patella ...Hope?  (Read 12797 times)

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Offline papasmurf1978

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Chondromalacia Patella ...Hope?
« on: June 11, 2014, 01:05:28 PM »
Hey guys,

I want to start new topic here. This one will be about squatting.
Let me bring you up to speed on my situation. In Feb 2014 I did few one leg squats using slant board and that hurt my knee. I got lateral patella pain for couple of months. So I stopped. Once the pain resided, I did few front squats and then the pain in front of knee cap started. MRI showed that I have a 6 mm large x 4 mm high involving less than 50% of cartilage on medial facet of patella signal. Not sure if this is softening or damage to cartlilage. MRI said it's beginner stage of chondromalacia patella. Since then, my knee pops and lateral patella side is sensitive and I get a little flaring up and tearing sensation in front of my knee cap. So I stopped doing any exercise and am recovering. I went to see PT. He examined me and said that my leg is not tracking properly and we started regime of stretching to get it fixed. He recommended that I continue squatting. I showed him how I was doing it and he said it was not the proper way thus my pain. He showed me correct method. I didn't tight my glutes and stick my butt out before properly. Now I'm doing them about 10 per day and so far so good.

Anyone can share their stories with knee pain and squatting. It seems to work for me, then again, I'm at the early stage of the regime and my PT said that doing squats is the best exercise for my legs since it's working my core and all lower body muscles at the same time.

Thanks,

Mariusz
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 12:27:58 PM by papasmurf1978 »
August 2014 MRI:
Mild Chondromalacia Patella in both knees
Normal cartilage thickness in both knee caps

Offline papasmurf1978

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Re: Squatting
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2014, 01:13:14 PM »
Here's the MRI of my right knee cap. If anyone is qualified to tell me if they see anything on the cartilage on medial facet of the patella.
August 2014 MRI:
Mild Chondromalacia Patella in both knees
Normal cartilage thickness in both knee caps

Offline Canadian-Ice

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Re: Squatting with Chondromalacia Patella
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2014, 10:35:48 PM »
Hey Papasmurf,

Wish I could help you with the MRI but it would be the blind leading the blind on that one. Maybe I'll share my experiences.

Long story short, I was dx with left knee chondramalacia by Buffalo MRI about 2 years ago. One year ago I found a way to stabalize it 100% for daily activities through leg curls and especially Single Leg Squats.

Couldn't bike or swim so sports doc tried Synvisc which supposidly was going to help me get on the bike. Didn't work.

For the past 13 months it's been far worse. Can't go up or down stairs, get off a chair, or even get out of my car without 4 out of 10 pain lasting ten minutes. I try to put everything onto my other leg best as possible.

Seen every clinician imaginable the past few years and generally the don't get the problem, use cookie cutter approaches, and usually make it worse.

So maybe feel better you can still do daily activities without a major problem. If you want to try, try to get to SLS's. Worked for me like a charm last year.

Offline papasmurf1978

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Re: Squatting with Chondromalacia Patella
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2014, 10:33:23 AM »
Hey Canadian-Ice,

thanks for your post. Seems we are living same nightmare. Although I don't experience much pain going up or down the stairs or getting out of the car. I feel sensitive pain on lateral side of my right knee cap usually when I lie down. It's like when my knee is extended the sensation is there.

I'm curious if single leg squats helped you get rid of pain, I hope, or at least reduce it. I'm squatting with both knees right now and will try to single squat soon.

By the way, have you heard of the new product Germans invented called Chondrofiller which regenerates cartilage?

Here's the link:

http://www.amedrix.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=23&Itemid=130&lang=en

Cheers
August 2014 MRI:
Mild Chondromalacia Patella in both knees
Normal cartilage thickness in both knee caps

Offline MDAL

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Re: Squatting with Chondromalacia Patella
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2014, 11:48:57 AM »
This Chondrofiller thing sounds interesting, not exactly new since fibrin glue is already being used with stem cells clinical trials, but from what I read since its collagen based, it seems to supply the stem cells with collagen type II in order to form real hyaline cartilage rather than fibro-cartilage...

Perhaps this deserves another topic of discussion in the regeneration sub-forum. Used together with stem cells this could be a hot topic. Problem for now, is that use of glues and stem cells are only being used in research and clinical trials, most stem cell treatments out there in the market are done without any scaffold material.

About your initial questions, there are several options you have:

While it's early stage (PRP and stem cells).

If it advances to bone on bone holes, the Denovo or ACI procedures (look in the regeneration sub-forums).
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 11:51:22 AM by MDAL »

Offline papasmurf1978

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Re: Squatting with Chondromalacia Patella
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2014, 12:43:27 PM »
Hi MDAL,

My ortheo said I would not need any treatment for the tiny "thing" he called it. He said with exercise and good diet and healthy lifestyle, this thing might not even get bigger. But I'm thinking it's 6 mm x 4 mm going less than 50% deep in the cartilage behind medial facet of the pattela, seems to me pretty big, no? I will definitelly try to get the chondrofiller treatment done as soon as it's performed here in Canada. Right now they are doing it in Europe and I read great stories. MDAL, what is your knee story, I'm curious, if any.
August 2014 MRI:
Mild Chondromalacia Patella in both knees
Normal cartilage thickness in both knee caps

Offline MDAL

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Re: Squatting with Chondromalacia Patella
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2014, 01:07:07 PM »
No one is going to do this procedure on you so quickly, what I am reading is about doing micro-fracture (bleeding bone marrow) which contains stem cells, and covering up with this to form a scaffold. That is what some are using in Poland...

The company itself, seems to mention only clean up and use... but the information doesn't seem to be 100% clear.

But note that they would only do this to you, if you are already bone on bone... Maybe later, in a few years, it's too early for this...


Offline papasmurf1978

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Re: Squatting with Chondromalacia Patella
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2014, 01:27:41 PM »
According to the following news cast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WccioY4P77c

What they do during procedure is only clean around the defect, they do not perform microfracture as the gel inserted regenerates hyaline collagen from surrounding tissue. I'm polish and understood the procedure from the news cast.

I also read on Chondro filler, company says the benefit of this product is way better than microfructure or ACI without using them as treatment during Chondro filler procedure.
August 2014 MRI:
Mild Chondromalacia Patella in both knees
Normal cartilage thickness in both knee caps

Offline papasmurf1978

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Re: Squatting with Chondromalacia Patella
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2014, 01:33:01 PM »
Also it states in the news cast that they can only perform this procedure on you if you are 45 years old or younger so the chance to regenerate is very high at that age still. Also, they only do the procedure on non osteorathritis patients so no bone on bone, they state that the smaller the fracture, the higher the chance to cure and prevent further damage.
August 2014 MRI:
Mild Chondromalacia Patella in both knees
Normal cartilage thickness in both knee caps

Offline MDAL

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Re: Squatting with Chondromalacia Patella
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2014, 06:21:01 PM »
I have read multiple stuff, the company itself mentions only clean and fill, but about that I have some reservations, sounds too good to be true and that easy, while on google with this, I also found mfx followed by placing the gel on top... makes more sense and that would remove the age cap of 45 that doctor mentioned.

My belief is that this would work way better if there was cells, either implanted cartilage cells of just stem cells under the gel scaffold. This would avoid the MFX damages... and it would be a concentrate.

You are Polish living in Poland, or Polish abroad? If you are in Poland, there are some good doctors doing stem cells there (and around), I am planing to travel there myself...

Offline papasmurf1978

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Re: Squatting with Chondromalacia Patella
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2014, 08:11:41 PM »
I live in Canada and am tryingto get some info from Polish doctors on this.
August 2014 MRI:
Mild Chondromalacia Patella in both knees
Normal cartilage thickness in both knee caps

Offline MDAL

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Re: Squatting with Chondromalacia Patella
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2014, 08:14:22 PM »
Send me a message if you find some private clinic doing it... or any relevant info on this...


Offline papasmurf1978

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Re: Squatting with Chondromalacia Patella
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2014, 10:42:25 PM »
which part of the world are you from?
August 2014 MRI:
Mild Chondromalacia Patella in both knees
Normal cartilage thickness in both knee caps

Offline papasmurf1978

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Re: Squatting with Chondromalacia Patella
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2014, 10:43:05 PM »
what is your knee issue?
August 2014 MRI:
Mild Chondromalacia Patella in both knees
Normal cartilage thickness in both knee caps

Offline Canadian-Ice

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Re: Squatting with Chondromalacia Patella
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2014, 09:51:19 PM »
Hey Canadian-Ice,

thanks for your post. Seems we are living same nightmare. Although I don't experience much pain going up or down the stairs or getting out of the car. I feel sensitive pain on lateral side of my right knee cap usually when I lie down. It's like when my knee is extended the sensation is there.

I'm curious if single leg squats helped you get rid of pain, I hope, or at least reduce it. I'm squatting with both knees right now and will try to single squat soon.

By the way, have you heard of the new product Germans invented called Chondrofiller which regenerates cartilage?

Here's the link:

http://www.amedrix.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=23&Itemid=130&lang=en

Cheers

Hey Papasmurf,

That chondrafiller would be great. But I have read about so many surgical procedures and injections over the years that I suspect there are many more. Problem is, there is no solid peer-reviewed research base behind any of them. Vast majority if not all supportive studies are always paid for by the companies or surgeons selling the product themselves. Yet the more independent organications and physican associations endorse no treatment for knee chondramalacia or arthritis generally.

Where there is a need -- a problem with no proven definitive solution -- there will always be companies and doctors willing to promise a solution.

Chondroitin and Glucosamine are good examples of this. Companies making billions and billions because people have no alternative. All the companies have to do is promise a solution to patients in need, pay for a couple of studies showing some amazing benefit, and people would be crazy not to pay  a couple hundred bucks each just to try it. And so it goes, the ever growing population of arthritis sufferers provide a never ending supply of customers. It corrupt and deceptive.

Even the anecdotal benefits are dubvious. Mind-body connect has been known for what, 60 years, to have a major impact on study results. If people believe something will help, it will, at least a bit, maybe 25%. Why double-blind studies blind the patient to whether they are taking placebo or the real treatment. Effects of belief on results is one of the few things ever really proven.

My two cents.

Really knowledgeable crowd on this site. Lots of research on cartilage repair. A lot of highly credible sources, like Hospital for Special Surgery department head, do say we are 20-25 years away from the ability to resurface cartilage. Personally, I truly believe that unlike past generations, we truly will live to see a relative cure for our chondramalacia.

My three cents.

Am however sorry to deter anyone's hope for a more timely solution to cartilage loss. There's always a chance.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2014, 09:58:43 PM by Canadian-Ice »















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