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Author Topic: An athletes mpfl reconstruction diary  (Read 97172 times)

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Offline lucha86

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Re: An athletes mpfl reconstruction diary
« Reply #585 on: April 06, 2016, 09:20:52 PM »
So a round up of what has happened so far
from 16 i had been having knee problems and mid 2013 got hit in back of knee while wrestling in a match,
so.........
February 2014- 1st Surgeon says "one must do an MPFL reconstruction to resolve issue."

May 2014 - MPFL reconstruction

June 2014- MUA due to knee stiffness, and leg swelling to treble size suspected DVT

October 2014- returned to wrestling even in first match knee was collapsing

February 2015- Explain to surgeon something isnt right surgeon send me back to physio
                       blames my vmo

May 2015- See surgeon again expressing knee is collapsing, suggests arthroscope

June/july 2015- arthroscope, chondroplasty medial plica excision, surgeon said nothing is wrong

july 2015- 1st surgeons regristrar said the surgeon didnt know what to do with my knee....
                burst into tears, furious ran out felt time was wasted

July 2015- got second opinion private, only to find out it was biased.............the ears have walls
                as they say lol

July to September 2015 - knee collapses over 100's of times, capture on video collapse  send to surgeon
                                  and begged for a referral to a different consultant lost wrestling career and retired.

September 2015- knee completely collapses in front of physio takes him 1 hour in his lunch to put it back in
                        he writes to another consultant in hospital asking for me to be referred ASAP..... not a happy
                        physio and furious                   

September 2015 - end up in a and e and another consultant in orthopaedics with the help of my physio letter
                           gets me a transfer to outside the area to a specialist hospital......

November 2015- go to new hospital new consultant, near enough at break down point, to find i may have an
                        old acl injury after 100's of collapses

April 2016 - had arthroscope to find an acl injury, intact, but lax and oedematous now awaiting full results...

so four surgeries later two and a half years later.......... im at this point ........ so 4 days time i find out what i have been waiting for for a year and a half !!!!
i now feel a sense of relief that i have a reason to my collapses and i wasnt imaging them but this shows always go by your gut instinct   :) :)

Offline Clarkey

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Re: An athletes mpfl reconstruction diary
« Reply #586 on: April 08, 2016, 04:56:41 PM »
Hi Lucha,

You have been through a lot up highs and lows with your on-going knee problems with a long history of knee problems from your teens to present day. It very frustrating when you know you have a knee problem and cannot get it fixed in time even with several knee collapses. 

I hope your next surgery will sort out your knee collapses and that you can return back to wresting once again or would you avoid returning in fear of making your knee worse again.

Be nice for you to know soon what you been dealing with and how your OS decides how best to try and fix or ease the knee from collapsing again in the future.

[email protected]
RK: PFPS, Arthrofibrosis, Tendinopathy, Five cortisone injections
16/01/18 Anterior interval release, distal patella excision, lateral meniscal repair
18/07/14 Anterior interval release  
16/11/09 Medial plica excision, fat pad trimming

Offline lucha86

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Re: An athletes mpfl reconstruction diary
« Reply #587 on: April 09, 2016, 12:08:26 AM »
hey nick
well he hasnt agree yey or ney on the ACL reconstruction, but with the amount of collapses i have had i can forsee any other option....
My wrestling career has finished, contracts and insurance signed off, i have to consider now my knee and will not wrestle any further.....

I do agree with you Nick, all i want is honesty, and a complete understanding of what is going on, because after the distrust i have built up from my previous surgeon i feel its a little hard but like i have said before my new surgeon is a good listener and will listen.........i cannot fault him.....

then i spoke to a doctor i know and he said my risk of fracturing the kneecap is higher due to my mpfl reconstruction if i was to have an ACL reconstruction......... lol so for future reference have dont mix an MPFL with an ACL reconstruction lol........

and my knee has gone twice again...... i think i do though feel a sense of relief seeing that i do have an acl injury and i was right all along, sometimes it shows go by your instinct.......

But it is also proof that all cases are different and all surgeons have their different speciality so research is key... and that not all surgeons know the answers we are all students of life, and sometimes ones best move is to be transferred to a specialist in the area of the knee you need to be looked at..........

Offline lucha86

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Re: An athletes mpfl reconstruction diary
« Reply #588 on: April 12, 2016, 08:55:14 PM »
so yes i have a grade 2 acl injury...................... but now i have to do around 3-4 months of physio to see if it will benefit the ACL, before the surgeon says yey or ney...........

my physios and Pt weren't impressed........ but they all have their plans in action right now and have told me several time over we have given you physios for 2 years and its still collapsing... they think it seems illogical they laughed and thought i was joking the physios at first then their faces turned to thunder........so im stuck between basically two walls banging my head lol

so i suppose i just gotta do it to prove it still going, but then when i added up the time so 3-4 months physios then if the surgery goes ahead another 6 months to wait then another year on top of that for full recovery....
so basically when that got explained to me i burst into tears... i remember saying can anyone try to comprehend to me why it has taken about 5 years to get a knee sorted when it should only be one year, i cant gain those years back????
because its hard to say this but my life is on hold quite literally...........
AM i happy to say i now have a proper diagnosis yes i am....... but now it means more years out of my life.....
which could have been prevented..........

but the think was i was right all along...... which does sadden me .......

however like i said no doctors will be mentioned as i wish to kep that private as all cases are different
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 08:59:00 PM by lucha86 »

Offline lucha86

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Re: An athletes mpfl reconstruction diary
« Reply #589 on: April 15, 2016, 09:48:28 PM »
so i think this is important to put on here.........

I dont think it's right to name doctors names, as they all have their own speciality and every case is different and everyone outcome is different.
and its not right to judge one case on one particular doctor, as each and every doctor have their expertise and every outcome is different, this is why i would never name them for this reason...... every doctor deserves their privacy and confidentiality

what i do feel is that there needs to be more clarity or understanding regarding doctors and diagnosis, my point is if a surgeon is very good at knee
replacements,  then why send a patient with ligament issues to this doctor?? Or if a patient needs a knee replacement why send them to a doctor who does more ligament surgeries ........

Or if everything has been exhausted, then a doctor must consider, looking in another direction for the patients interest, to gain the correct diagnosis.
if that is transferring a patient to another consultant, to gain the right diagnosis, but i question does this often happen?? no ............

After going to my surgeon, i burst into tears for about 20 minutes, after realising if the physio doesn't work which my physios are adamant won't. It would take 5 years to finish this saga off... I suppose my surgeon is feeling near enough 3 years if frustration lol, i'm happy i had my friend with me at the time while with the consultant,  i remember saying to this surgeon,

"Is this right to justify a knee issues to be finally resolved in 5 years, when it should only take a year to a year and a half, i can't get those three years back i have lost everything....What has anyone in the medical field learnt from this?"

I remember saying to the surgeon, i felt tired and i wanted to put in a complaint, maybe at that point i was frustrated with finally realising or accepting that my knee was screwed, and it might take a few more years to fix it. But then after speaking with my other half, who works in hospitals.
I think he made a valid point, "Your frustrated because you have an answer to a question after years of waiting for it, but remember it wasn't this doctors fault, you can't change the past, but this doctor is trying to change your future."
At that point i felt maybe he was right, just get on with it no complaint, i suppose in the moment and the frustration and when you have lost everything its hard to accept some things............and you have to accept the help then those who are trying to help you rather than be cautious all the time....

i have so far had around another 50 collapses, i keep doing the physio and the gym work on a grade 2 injured ACL, but all my support as in PT'S and Physios, and think are just trying to get me through the 12 weeks, keeping me positive as much as they can,...... and helping put my knee back together when it collapses......

you have to keep trying....... i feel its the only thing than keeps me positive by keep trying......because i need to go back to show i have tried my best, the way this collapsing sometimes i feel like im trying to fight a double edged sword..... but i suppose where there is a will there is a way lol

now my work has asked for a letter as my boss caught my knee collapsing and me falling down the stairs two days ago,

so finally i have my diagnosis .......... Grade ACL 2 tear/injury... roll on 11 weeks

Offline lucha86

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Re: An athletes mpfl reconstruction diary
« Reply #590 on: April 21, 2016, 09:54:23 PM »
so my rehab is hilarious my knee keeps going out and keeps collapsing and my physios are just folding their arms as well as my personal trainers just working out just muttering to themselves that they have to somehow get me through the next 10 weeks.......

they all believe that its more of a burden to do this as it will not improve anything but they all accept the fact that  if we dont do it then i wont have the opportunity for a reconstruction.......
had another 25 collapses, thei hypermobility and ACL issue is not a good mix......

to add insult to injury the DVLA said unless it gets fixed i wont be road worthy or i will need controls added to the wheel of the car in order to drive..... so i just have to laugh because its just crazy, so hey asked they need tow rite to my surgeon i said go ahead lol.....

The question i pondered on a few days ago is how honest can doctors be with us? How much truth do we get?>
I tried to fathom the answer to this only to find that, probably im not sure...........

with the ever growing possibility the internet has become and the knowledge we can get from it i think some doctors have become more closed in their actions and keep to basics, i think most doctors expect people just to sit and accept, but when your fighting for your quality of life, i will fight for it because they are not in my shoes. Some may not know how to react to it, as they do not expect it and it only takes the more experienced doctors that can settle these situations.............

Im sure not many doctors have come across a case where a knee still isn't fixed after three years to find there was an underlying issue the patient believed there to be when the ex surgeon said there wasn't , im sure doctors would expect the patient to be pretty much annoyed or frustrated, it didnt get sorted at the time... how does any doctor gain that trust back with a patient,  when you find this out as a patient? that you were right over an ex- surgeon who had decades worth of experience......

No doctor can ever train for an experience like that an ongoing case for 3 years of knee instability.......

my knee collapsed again today so the croycuff is my saviour today to bring down the swelling...........

so just feeling tired right now, cant go on holiday either as the insurance is crazy because of the knee,so im just stuck lol well i suppose it saves me money

but as the GMC in one publication "General Medical Council, the regulatory body for the profession, said: ‘Doctors have a clear duty to put patients’ interests first and act to protect them."






« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 05:51:46 PM by lucha86 »

Offline lucha86

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Re: An athletes mpfl reconstruction diary
« Reply #591 on: April 24, 2016, 10:11:47 PM »
SO TODAY ...... I HAD A MAJOR COLLAPSE.... one of the worst i ever had......

So i was with my personal trainer, and lunges are part of the rehab process, my knee went out of place cracked out, rotated out and i fell to the ground...........
i ended up being put on a weight bench, lifting dumbbells, as i couldn't move my leg an my knee was massively swollen, i ending up hoping home, bracing up, and cryocuff .

Im not allowed to go, into work with a crutch otherwise they will sign me off a sick, so now trying to do everything to get is sorted, to see if i can just go in with a brace,

so i think what i have is a chronic acl instability as you can get it from old injuries to the ACL, where it just does not recover, i rang my boss for her to ask me what to do she said best to hop into work with a brace which does against worl ethic but would be allowed on this occasion..... see if i can see a doctor to give me a letter, to say my knee just needs help with a crutch and see from there......
but generally as soon as i say to a gp

 " oh yea i had an MPFL reconstruction, medial chrondo plasty, medial plica excision, and i got a acl grade 2 injury that got missed, which now they think physio in 3 months will help it even though i had it for 2 years...."

The GP will ask you to walk up and down its its shakey collapses and will look scratch their head and just say.... nah you need orthopaedics. Im not sure what is an MPFL "
So generally the GP will just do what you ask of them, as you know what to do, as they don't have a clue what to do....

so here we go again!!!  >:( ::) ::)




Offline Vickster

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Re: An athletes mpfl reconstruction diary
« Reply #592 on: April 24, 2016, 10:26:32 PM »
You should get in touch with your OS ASAP and ask to be seen. Have the physio write a letter in advance

Are lunges really sensible with an unstable knee even if working  with a trainer? Who designed the rehab? Is it the surgeon's protocol?

Does your company have occupational health, if so, you need to see them too. You'll need adaptations to your working environment, they should seek to comply with disability legislation or enable you to work at home. Or pay you for sick leave

Does grade 2 mean the ACL is stretched or partially torn rather than a full rupture which would need a reconstruction. You said your guy is a ligament expert so presumably he is correct in his diagnosis and treatment plan?

Good luck :)
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline lucha86

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Re: An athletes mpfl reconstruction diary
« Reply #593 on: April 25, 2016, 08:59:32 PM »
Hey vickster its quite funny really lol in a witty way lol

in regards to the grade of injury the way i got it explained to me a grade 2 is like lax slightly torn (fluffy looking) but still slight intact, as a grade three if a full torn ligament where generally with a level 3 they will automatically do a acl reconstruction on a grade 3

an acl grade 2 the way my surgeon explained it was it has a 50/50 chance of healing with physio..... i explained to my surgeon that i have physiotherapy for nearly two years now and nothing was happening, and even when my new surgeon suspected acl injury before the mri was done in October last year the physio made sure i had acl rehab...........to cover themselves to see if there was any improvement and their wasn't ......

so i said to the surgeon i cannot fathom how he thinks after two years worth of physio 3-4 months is going to make it better?? after two years of physio, but the surgeon was adamant on me doing physio before even trying an acl reconstruction, i said i didnt agree, but i said i know for a fact it will still collapse and i cannot believe logically under any medical principle how this would get better after two years worth of physio? i got a silence.........

i dont know if he need me to do physio as its a different hospital to prove things have been exhausted, or there are other things happening that i dont know about.

So the rehab book, i got given was given by the hospital, with the lunges etc in it, I said to my physios everything i was doing,  they both feel they are banging their heads against a brick wall, because im doing everything to work the vmo, quadriceps gleuts, hamstrings it band etc, medial and lateral, but the knee just keeps collapsing. my physios said its a double edge sword for me right not because if i dont keep going the surgeon wont do the acl reconstruction, so 12 weeks is enough to suffice, but they said it keeps collapsing and its not going to benefit me in the long run.... with the letter front i think physios are cautious not to upset surgeons by writing letters so i plan to prove it in other ways too, sometimes black and white can never be argued lol

regarding my physio, my surgeon wanted me to do extensive physio, both my physios laughed and said its the NHS not private lol  your doing everything right and they signed me off on everything, they believe my surgeon needs proof that nothing has worked, before he can say yes to a reconstruction, they said for me to log everything when it collapses get my gym logged etc, and get a trainer to work with me with my legs in the gym under supervised conditions so then if my knee goes its a witness statement etc............

knee is still sleepy but its getting there...........

Offline Clarkey

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Re: An athletes mpfl reconstruction diary
« Reply #594 on: April 26, 2016, 03:58:52 PM »
Hi Lucha,

It's frustrating when OS think doing PT for over a long time period will suddenly fix and sort out your endless knee collapses. You have enough proof, I think you mentioned you have a video footage when your knee collapses. Your current OS was happy to try his best to sort out your knee from collapsing. 50/50 chance that physio will not work? Hope you can get your knee sorted out asap, good luck.

[email protected]
RK: PFPS, Arthrofibrosis, Tendinopathy, Five cortisone injections
16/01/18 Anterior interval release, distal patella excision, lateral meniscal repair
18/07/14 Anterior interval release  
16/11/09 Medial plica excision, fat pad trimming

Offline lucha86

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Re: An athletes mpfl reconstruction diary
« Reply #595 on: April 27, 2016, 08:56:04 PM »
so im rather still perplexed by the whole situation nick but i suppose the way i have to think about it 2 weeks to wait if i have waited for this knee to be sorted for over three years i have to accept is a short amount of time....to prove that i have a chronic deficient acl grade 2 injury.........

im trying my best but im like bambi on everything lol even my pt is agreeing its stupid doing this as that is all we have been doing to try to stabilise the acl, but the knee constantly shakes and rotates outwards....

i think generally the team helping me are taking big breaths and counting down the weeks lol........

my knee is generally massive and swollen recently so its annoying really... but i just have to suck it up do what the surgeon wants, but everyone around me is saying its wasted time, but basically i dont have any other option............. and i must stick with this surgeon as hes the first one to be honesty, and is one of the top in the country.....



Offline Snowy

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Re: An athletes mpfl reconstruction diary
« Reply #596 on: April 29, 2016, 08:43:05 AM »
This is insane! I went through my own painful, pointless saga with NHS physio way back when, and I have to be honest - the approach to ACL injuries in the UK sucks. It shouldn't be about the grade of the tear, but the stability of the knee and the demands that your lifestyle will put on it. When I finally tore through the remains of my left ACL in Canada, I was lucky enough to be left with a pretty stable knee - but my surgeon and physio both strongly advocated reconstruction given that sport was important to me. In the UK, I don't think that would ever have happened - the approach seems to be to avoid surgery if humanly possible regardless of what this might mean for the long-term health of the knee.

I agree that this really seems like wasted time and possibly even detrimental to the knee if it's causing further collapses, but as you say a couple more weeks is nothing compared to what you've been through already and you need this surgery. Take it easy, try to ease stress on the knee where you can, and let's hope your OS decides to move forward soon.
Mar 11: R Biceps femoris tear (skiing)
Jul 10: ACLr (hamstring autograft)
Mar 10: L ACL rupture (skiing)
Feb 06: L partial ACL tear (kickboxing)
Dec 03: R bone edema (motorbike)
Jan 01: R patellar chip (motorbike)
May 93: R ACL sprain (hockey)
Ongoing: bilateral PFS and OA

Offline lucha86

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Re: An athletes mpfl reconstruction diary
« Reply #597 on: May 01, 2016, 08:28:08 PM »
so i am just completely perplexed now lol  :o ::) >:(
so got the note back from the surgeon to class it as a subtle grade 2 acl injury, however  the ligament especially the posterolateral part of it is full of oedema and i have mild fissuring in the lateral femur compartment of the knee which is suggestive of an ongoing stability issue presently!! quote unquote lol yes i could have told you that myself lol !!

 >:( o thanks to the instability and collapses  i now have arthritis of the lateral femur compartment of the knee which my previous surgeon mentioned nothing about .....

I decided to ask a doctor i knew why does he use the word subtle? He said unless its a full grade 3 tear the surgeons will use subtle as its classed as still intact and apparently they have a small chance to heal, which is probably why the surgeon is insistent on physio first........

i also ask this orthopaedic doctor if you had a hypermobile patient, with an acl injury, would that not have a bigger effect on the joint due to the natural laxity it already has? he said yes it can but all surgeons will exhaust everything before they try surgery and as you have a new surgeon the previous physio would not count as he has not seen any evidence under his care from a physio  ::)

oh well not long i suppose 7 weeks isnt long i i suppose if thats the way it works i must follow it like i have said before at least i have had an honest answer from my new surgeon which is what i have always wanted,  im not angry with him i he has been great i suppose i'm just frustrated with the system lol and everything im finding out now i suppose is the what i have wanted to know but its sad to see my joint has suffered and have gained fissuring because of the instability .....

Offline Clarkey

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Re: An athletes mpfl reconstruction diary
« Reply #598 on: May 04, 2016, 05:54:19 PM »
Hi Lucha,

One seems to get used to having to wait until you finally make the progress you be patiently waiting for. 7 weeks should hopefully go fast, it is a good time of the year with warmer days and shorter nights. Strange that the oedema in the lateral femur compartment was missed out by your previous OS, a full grade 3 tear cannot be fixed with physio!

It is no surprise why you had numerous amounts of collapses, wish you could have had it treated sooner rather than later, better late than never, at least you now know what you are dealing with. Good luck, I am glad you have found an OS that knows how to deal with your knee problems.

[email protected]
RK: PFPS, Arthrofibrosis, Tendinopathy, Five cortisone injections
16/01/18 Anterior interval release, distal patella excision, lateral meniscal repair
18/07/14 Anterior interval release  
16/11/09 Medial plica excision, fat pad trimming

Offline lucha86

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Re: An athletes mpfl reconstruction diary
« Reply #599 on: May 05, 2016, 05:14:59 PM »
so my knee has collapsed four times at work today i think now everyone lets me get on with it rather that embarrass me its hard but now the knee keeps rotating out no physio appointments available till the 24th but i see the physio on the 16th im hoping to see if a sports massage might relax the leg abit.... now the knee is massive and im beginning to just get perplexed what to do with it except use the rice technique

this 7 weeks seems very long but if i dont do it it wont get me anywhere....
but this video made me think im changing it very motivating video about how we percieve life and how we can change things at any point without fear, there is always hope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jfdjiUeDnk
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 08:25:36 PM by lucha86 »