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Author Topic: orthokine treatment - meniscal and ACL tears advice needed  (Read 2258 times)

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Offline vegemite

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orthokine treatment - meniscal and ACL tears advice needed
« on: April 04, 2014, 03:31:52 AM »
Hi everyone,
I am 45 years old (male). I had a cat scan which showed several meniscal fissure/tears (white and red zone).

ACL had a partial thickness longitudinal fissure/tear. I am bow legged ;-(
My gut feeling is that the meniscal tears are from the time when I used to play a lot of basketball, soccer and squash 30 years ago.

My exercise regime is cross trainer, walking (land and in pool), building up muscle strength in quads, glutes and hammies. Also do stretching and using a foam roller for loosing up muscles (legs).
I have a very good supplement regime (wobenzyme, fish/krill oil, multi vitamin, olive leaf extract. Also eat a lot of vegetables. Wobenzyme has been excellent with pain management.

I have decided to start with orthokine treatment. I do not have everyday pain in my knee unless I twist the knee. My specialist actually thought that the pain might be caused by minor osteoarthritis (visible on cat scan).

Is there anything else I can do to support and improve my knee? I highly value the experience of the people in this forum.

I had a look on ebay to see if I could buy an meniscal upgrade but no luck so far…. :(

Offline vegemite

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Re: orthokine treatment - meniscal and ACL tears advice needed
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2014, 12:32:32 PM »
Anyone???

Offline MDAL

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Re: orthokine treatment - meniscal and ACL tears advice needed
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2014, 01:22:21 PM »
I would go for PRP instead.

Orthokine is a basically (according to the theory) a blood prep designed to stop the anti-inflammatory issues that cause cartilage degradation.

PRP is a different preparation which is based on preserving as many growth factors as possible to help some level of healing. The issue is, PRP is a very powerful anti-inflammatory as well. I can definitely testify on that one. I had a really positive experience with it (6 shots weekly frequence). 5 days after the first shot, my inflammation level reduced to a level I couldn't even imagine during the year before.

This was far but far better than the Hyaluronic acid injections.

So differences are, you get anti-inflammatory action from both anyway, but with PRP you also maintain as many growth hormones, to help cartilage and tendons heal (at least a bit)...

Offline gcoza

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Re: orthokine treatment - meniscal and ACL tears advice needed
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2014, 12:06:47 PM »
Here is my story:

My name is Goran. I'm 42 years old. I live in Croatia, Europe.
I apologize in advance for my bad English.
For some time I have problems with my knees that do not allow me to live a normal life.
In close family no one had suffer from similar problems.
I'm pretty sure that's left knee injury occurred a few years ago during one squat. For a long time I had barely noticeable pain when burden that knee. The area of pain was right on the inside of the left knee at the level of the patella.

In early July 2013. The pain escalated in a way that I could not drive long but I had to get out of the car and walk or straighten the leg (where the first steps were heavier), after that the pain would completely stopped . In early August 2013 the pain increased. I could not normally walk down the stairs, and for the first time on August 13th the pain became unbearable because I started feeling pain while sleeping.
After three sleepless nights I visited my general practitioner doctor who immediately sent me to a specialist orthopedist. Diagnosis chondromalacia patella . He also attributed the application of Crespine gel (new generation German made synthetic hyaluronic acid lubricant which has the effect of 6-8 months), which under the circumstances I have not received (vacations).

This is followed by two weeks of pain in the knee for which I could not sleep . After that on September 2nd  2013 I had MRI and was examined by several other orthopedists and physiatrists which confirmed the diagnosis. After three weeks the steady pain calmed down and I again could sleep normally.
Soon I began to conventional physiotherapy . Over 20 treatments of physiotherapy, irritation of the knee was completely gone, and I began to practice at home, but still I could not walk normally down the stairs because injury was still present (pain on flexion, especially under load ), only knee was no longer sore. It is important to mention that after calming inflammation I could hold the bent leg, or sit.

As none of this had yielded satisfactory results, I decided, in consultation with the doctor to apply Crespine gel in my left knee, which I did on October 23rd  2013.
(Supposedly should act within 10 days) after application knee is swollen and he is further reduced mobility . After 4-5 days of knee swelling decreases , but is still well known pain ( only slightly different form - in a smaller area but slightly sharper ) occurs when going down the stairs ,and , what was worst of all and alert, on October 29th  dull pain and tingling appeared also in my right knee and right lower back, probably due to overload . Pain in right knee I was able to partially control with anti-inflammatory pills  and ice packs, but the pain never went away and without tranquillizers I could not sleep ( analgesics do little help for knee pain ) I felt a constant tension and scratching , especially when sitting , maximum at angle of 90 degrees of flexion . After applying the Crespine gel left knee felt a little better ( 20 % but not enough for normal function ) .

During November and December I went on conventional exercises and stretching for the knees, and I tried and carry on electrostimulation of the quadriceps ( especially the vastus medialis oblicus ) . I feel that electro therapy with exercises done a lot to restore normal knee function because I was increasingly managed to tip from a seated position without crepitation and pain in my left knee, but only when the legs are at right angle to the body.

Again, on November 25th  I was examined by a another physiatrist , who recommended further exercise bike with a high seat and swimming.
In the meantime, the pain in the right lumbar region of the spine due to the over workload increased. His opinion is that it's not a big deal and it will pass.
Again, I did 10 treatments of physical therapy ( ozone , magnet , ultrasound , exercise ), but with no particular improvement of the knees.
In the meantime, I spent a lot of money best orthopedists and physiatrists in Croatia . Some say it will pass, some it won’t. Some recommend hyaluronic acid , another MBST ( treatment of cartilage by magnetic resonance - MBST® - Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Therapy, also started for the first time in Germany ) and Orthokin therapy (Globally known as a “Kobe Bryant treatment”), some of them to carry on with quadriceps exercises.
But they all agree that the operation does not help a lot if the patella is tracking correctly (in the middle), which is my case.
I finally came across one of the best orthopedist in Croatia who himself suffer  from 4th degree chondromalacia patella, and he also recommended Orthokin therapy(which he also tried after the arthroscopy for micro fractures in subchondral bone and he sad that therapy did help him) and MBST therapy.
Since he’s fighting chondromalacia for whole life he says that it comes and goes in waves of year or two. He generally had more pain in winter, less in summer when swimming in see etc.
I also found on the internet very few cases of complete healing or regeneration of cartilage. In the meanwhile, I take diet supplements all the time. Fish oil and tablets or powders with glucosamine ... but it does not help ...

As described conventional methods of treatment have not produced results , I decided to apply Orthokin therapy for both knees.
The day after the first injection constant pain in my right knee ( scratching , tension ) has begun to weaken. At the time of writing this post ( three days after the second injection ) pain in the right knee is lower by about 70 % , and I could finally start doing the most normal things like watching television, reading newspapers etc. ..
My impression is that nothing can regenerate damaged cartilage. Impression of pain is individual and subjective and does not depend or partially depend on the degree of cartilage damage.
Summary is that Orthokin definitely works because it will significantly reduce the pain with chondromalacia patella . Injection does not hurt nor does it have side effects except for a tiny sting that heals in a few days . Whether this will rebuild cartilage , we'll see . I think there are are poor chances for that. But, less pain means more movement, and more movement means faster healing.
My plan is also to try MBST treatments and with that, all the possibilities, of so called "modern" medicine, which does not seem to make progress towards complete cartilage restoration method are exhausted.


REFRESH: 6 days after the third injection in both right knee is still 10 % better , even with the left I feel a lot less pain when lifting from a chair and walk down the stairs.

REFRESH 2: After 5th and last injection I still feel the pain but knees are much better now.

Offline vegemite

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Re: orthokine treatment - meniscal and ACL tears advice needed
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2014, 01:23:06 PM »
Any more suggestions?

Offline gcoza

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Re: orthokine treatment - meniscal and ACL tears advice needed
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2014, 07:02:41 PM »
I would go for PRP instead.

Orthokine is a basically (according to the theory) a blood prep designed to stop the anti-inflammatory issues that cause cartilage degradation.

PRP is a different preparation which is based on preserving as many growth factors as possible to help some level of healing. The issue is, PRP is a very powerful anti-inflammatory as well. I can definitely testify on that one. I had a really positive experience with it (6 shots weekly frequence). 5 days after the first shot, my inflammation level reduced to a level I couldn't even imagine during the year before.

This was far but far better than the Hyaluronic acid injections.

So differences are, you get anti-inflammatory action from both anyway, but with PRP you also maintain as many growth hormones, to help cartilage and tendons heal (at least a bit)...
i agree. One additional difference . Orthokine injections are painless. prp's aren't.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 07:11:50 PM by gcoza »