Advertisement - Hide this advert





Author Topic: Torn meniscus 24/7 pain? please help *Update: diagnosed with patellofemoral synd  (Read 5760 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline seant46

  • MINIgeek (20-50 posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Liked: 1
Hi I hurt my knee 8 months ago, felt a tearing sensation and thought it could be either patellar tendonitis or torn meniscus at first but after seeing the OS I think it is a torn meniscus. The thing is nothing showed up on the MRI but i have all the symptoms clicking noise and it can feel it clicking on something in my knee when i extend it. The pain is deep inside the knee, most painful on the medial side sometimes it will hurt in the front of knee after walking or squating.

It has been getting worse and i still have to wait months for my arthroscope to see whats wrong and im assuming he will find it torn. My questions is has anyone elses meniscus hurt literally 24/7?(sometimes not as bad but the pain is excruciating i take aleve everyday and it doesnt do much for the pain i can barely fall asleep) Is there any hope i will ever be able to run again? I cant even walk my dog around the bay right now and im becoming very suicidal with the pain getting worse. Im worried that because its already been 8 months that i will never be pain free again and maybe has caused premature arthritis or something? im 21 btw and used to be very active. Its one thing to hurt after exercising but this is all the time even lying in bed i dont know how much longer i can take this. I dont get how nothing can show on the MRI but the pain is so intense, could it just have missed the tear or gotten a bad diagnosis? I dont see how it can be a ligament tear my knee is pretty stable

Please any info would help i have never felt more hopeless. if its torn does surgery usually help alleviate pain even after leaving it for 8 months so far?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2013, 08:30:05 AM by seant46 »
Right knee:
Sept 11/13 - Plica excision and scraped patella
Currently dealing with portal scar tissue from surgery, patellar tracking and patellar tendinopathy at the tibial tuberosity.

Left knee:
Currently dealing with less severe tracking and tendinopathy.

Offline JaneDown

  • Regular Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 60
  • Liked: 2
Re: Torn meniscus 24/7 pain? please help
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2013, 09:43:00 AM »
I really feel for you, and am in a similar situation myself except my injury was only 7 weeks ago. I have a theory about what might be going on in your knee, but it is only a theory and I have no medical training!
I injured my knee just by squatting down and getting up again (but I am 45 with rubbish knees!). The ripping sensation and sound were horrific and the pain was off the scale! Went to accident and emergency (I'm in the UK, so this is all on the National Health Service). Once they established there was no broken bone they sent me off on my merry way! The pain and inability to walk has meant that this is now week 7 of me being totally unable to walk, look after my children, drive, get myself a drink or meal or shower myself without help or whatever else I need to do! I've been pretty much house-bound for 7 weeks. MRI does show a large complex tear through the posterior and middle sections of the meniscus but I still haven't got an appointment with a knee specialist yet which could take weeks and weeks and then months before any surgery is scheduled. So I understand (albeit for a shorter time so far) your pain and depression. The MRI also shows oedema in the tibial plateau directly under the meniscus which would indicate a traumatic tissue injury, so I wonder if in my case the meniscus has also been partially ripped off of the tibial plateau at the rim where it is attached.
My theory with you is that as you heard and felt a tearing noise and you can feel clicking and moving where the meniscus is, that although the MRI can't see a tear in the meniscus, what it also wouldn't easily show up is a meniscus that has been literally partially torn off of the tibial plateau and ripped from the synovial capsule where the meniscus is attached around it's outer rim. That might explain why the meniscus appears whole on the MRI but is actually loose in there. Google phrases like "meniscocapsular separation" or "meniscular avulsion" or "detached meniscus" and see what you think. I hope that (for both you and I!!) this turns out not to be the case, but just thought it might explain why after so long you still have the sensation and pain of a torn meniscus but it appears whole on the MRI.
Constant pain is a very depressing thing, so don't be afraid to seek help with that, anti-depressants could help.
Knee pain since 2002
2006 MRI shows lateral meniscal tears
Oct 2008 Bilateral partial lateral meniscectomies (long recovery!!)
Jan 2009 MRI shows surgery caused damage to medial meniscus!!!
June 2013 knee injury, agony!!!
August 2013 - left knee medial partial meniscectomy

Offline Vickster

  • Administrator
  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4804
  • Liked: 399
  • Neelie knee!
Re: Torn meniscus 24/7 pain? please help
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2013, 10:07:18 AM »
Can you seek a second opinion from a knee specialist and also ask for the MRI to be read?  MRIs are notorious for false negatives and false positives for meniscus tears.  They are often used to confirm tears rather than diagnose (as in my case) - there are some very specific tests (McMurray) and clinical signs that knee specialists used to diagnose meniscus tears - joint line pain, locking, buckling, swelling.

Make sure you see a knee specialist rather than a general orthopaedic surgeon.  And I would be very wary of self diagnosis via the Internet and scaring yourself.  Use it to have knowledge so can understand what the doctor is using.

I didn't have surgery for 5 months on my knee as we wanted to try conservative management and physio first as the tear was small.  I would see your doctor again.  Have you been seeing a physio, they can help with pain management

Good luck :)
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline seant46

  • MINIgeek (20-50 posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Liked: 1
Re: Torn meniscus 24/7 pain? please help
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2013, 11:16:20 PM »
Thank you both for the replies! The pain is tolerable in the morning but by night it bothers be a lot so i just lye in bed a lot of the time because once i start moving around it gets worse. My room is also in the basement which doesnt help at all but i put as little weight as i can on it using the handrail and going slow. Jane I am going to google meniscocapsular separation and meniscular avulsion and see what info that has. I havent been seeing a physio i cannot afford it right now and im worried that squatting exercises will make it worse, but i guess i can try some that dont involve squatting. I think my OS does specialize in knees thats what my GP told me and when i looked him up on ratemymd for the last 5 years there were only cases involving knees reported before that there were some other body parts he worked on. Maybe he used to be general then went to specialize in knees? 
Right knee:
Sept 11/13 - Plica excision and scraped patella
Currently dealing with portal scar tissue from surgery, patellar tracking and patellar tendinopathy at the tibial tuberosity.

Left knee:
Currently dealing with less severe tracking and tendinopathy.

Offline seant46

  • MINIgeek (20-50 posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Liked: 1
Re: Torn meniscus 24/7 pain? please help
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2013, 11:29:12 PM »
How do you guys stay positive with your injurys and everything? My right knee I hurt 8 months ago but since i started taking accutane for acne it has weakened my bones and I have pain in my other knee and left elbow. Its really getting to me and I dont even hang out with my friends anymore because im always so depressed. Its hard to accept and im always thinking back to how i used to be
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 11:32:55 PM by seant46 »
Right knee:
Sept 11/13 - Plica excision and scraped patella
Currently dealing with portal scar tissue from surgery, patellar tracking and patellar tendinopathy at the tibial tuberosity.

Left knee:
Currently dealing with less severe tracking and tendinopathy.

Offline Vickster

  • Administrator
  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4804
  • Liked: 399
  • Neelie knee!
Re: Torn meniscus 24/7 pain? please help
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2013, 08:11:59 AM »
I certainly wouldn't be squatting with an undiagnosed knee injury, nor lunges! 

When I was doing physio after the injury, I did straight leg raises (as best as I could as I couldn't straighten my leg), heel slides, quad sets, one lying on front and pulling foot towards bum, glute bridges and wallslides - these are semi-squats, gentle on the knee.  Youtube should help you out with these.  Pretty standard knee injury exercises

Do you use ice before bed, you might find it very soothing - no more than 15 minutes and wrap the ice pack / frozen peas in a towel, never direct to skin.

 Aleve is an anti-inflammatory, only ever take it with food and not long term without medical direction.  You might consider a paracetamol (acetaminophen) based pain killer too (Tylenol in the US, where I assume you are?)

What does your GP say - presume you have been back since the MRI etc?  Also, talk to him about the depression, perhaps some counselling, or medication.  If you can, try to get out with your friends, have some fun, go to the movies, play video games, sports match, whatever you enjoy :)
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline Wallies11

  • MICROgeek (<20 posts)
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Liked: 0
Re: Torn meniscus 24/7 pain? please help
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2013, 10:14:02 PM »
I have heard of a product called the Elite Seat which is a knee extension device.  Its a product that your doctor is able to prescribe for you and you use it at home on a rental basis.  Essentially, by getting your full terminal knee extension, it forces those torn meniscus pieces back into place so they don't get caught every time you bend your leg, causing the excruciating pain.  I would check out their website, worth a shot!  Hope everything turns out alright for you!

Offline The KNEEguru

  • Administrator
  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • Posts: 2591
  • Liked: 104
  • The KNEEguru
    • The KNEEguru
Re: Torn meniscus 24/7 pain? please help
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2013, 10:42:52 AM »
The Elite seat is really for people who have already developed knee stiffness and having problems with regaining full extension. It is a product with a good reputation but I cannot subscribe to the concept of this product forcing torn meniscus pieces back into place. And in the case of seant46 the issue is more about whether the MRI is giving a false negative or what is causing the pain if the MRI is correct.
--
KNEEguru

Offline seant46

  • MINIgeek (20-50 posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Liked: 1
Re: Torn meniscus 24/7 pain? please help
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2013, 11:10:10 AM »
First off thank you everyone for replying.

The Elite seat is really for people who have already developed knee stiffness and having problems with regaining full extension. It is a product with a good reputation but I cannot subscribe to the concept of this product forcing torn meniscus pieces back into place. And in the case of seant46 the issue is more about whether the MRI is giving a false negative or what is causing the pain if the MRI is correct.

The KNEEguru why cant I send personal messages? I found a thread from 2009 and the guy had the  same symptoms as me which looked like it was either a torn meniscus of patellafemoral injury but he did not follow up. Would you be able to message me his email so I can contact him? I would love to be able to hear from him about what happened with his knee. His username is Scott C and this is the thread I am referring to: http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEtalk/index.php?topic=49736.0 Please I would love to get in contact with this man.
Right knee:
Sept 11/13 - Plica excision and scraped patella
Currently dealing with portal scar tissue from surgery, patellar tracking and patellar tendinopathy at the tibial tuberosity.

Left knee:
Currently dealing with less severe tracking and tendinopathy.

Offline seant46

  • MINIgeek (20-50 posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Liked: 1
Re: Torn meniscus 24/7 pain? please help
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2013, 11:16:52 AM »
My main question is if a menicus tear can cause pain 24/7. Sometimes it is not as bad but even when I wake up I can feel it. My OS thinks it may be patellafemoral or chondromalacai but I really hope not as those seem to be more chronic where as meniscus tears seem to generally have good results with surgery from what I have read. I thought it was a meniscus tear because it was an acute twisting injury and I thought patellfemoral and chondromalacai usually were gradual injurys. Its looking like I may have to deal with this long term if the OS is correct.
Right knee:
Sept 11/13 - Plica excision and scraped patella
Currently dealing with portal scar tissue from surgery, patellar tracking and patellar tendinopathy at the tibial tuberosity.

Left knee:
Currently dealing with less severe tracking and tendinopathy.

Offline Vickster

  • Administrator
  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4804
  • Liked: 399
  • Neelie knee!
Re: Torn meniscus 24/7 pain? please help
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2013, 11:24:37 AM »
Can you not seek a second opinion plus a review or repeat of the MRI ? With RICE, you should see some benefit even with a tear
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline seant46

  • MINIgeek (20-50 posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Liked: 1
Re: Torn meniscus 24/7 pain? please help
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2013, 11:27:26 AM »
Yeah I plan to seek a second opinion. Would it be best to go to another OS or would a experienced physiotherapist be a good option as well?
Right knee:
Sept 11/13 - Plica excision and scraped patella
Currently dealing with portal scar tissue from surgery, patellar tracking and patellar tendinopathy at the tibial tuberosity.

Left knee:
Currently dealing with less severe tracking and tendinopathy.

Offline Vickster

  • Administrator
  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4804
  • Liked: 399
  • Neelie knee!
Re: Torn meniscus 24/7 pain? please help
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2013, 11:32:12 AM »
Probably depends on what country you are in and access to healthcare? And what outcome you are seeking? Surgery a surgeon, rehab a physio
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline seant46

  • MINIgeek (20-50 posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Liked: 1
Re: Torn meniscus 24/7 pain? please help
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2013, 11:40:06 AM »
Id like to avoid surgery if possible. After doing a little reading, I think it may be indeed patellafemoral syndrom like the OS but we originally suspected a torn meniscus. I was going to try to get scoped as soon as possible but maybe I will try 6 months of physio focusing on the quads. This has been a very confusing experience for me. Hopefully I can run again one day.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 11:42:40 AM by seant46 »
Right knee:
Sept 11/13 - Plica excision and scraped patella
Currently dealing with portal scar tissue from surgery, patellar tracking and patellar tendinopathy at the tibial tuberosity.

Left knee:
Currently dealing with less severe tracking and tendinopathy.

Offline Vickster

  • Administrator
  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4804
  • Liked: 399
  • Neelie knee!
Re: Torn meniscus 24/7 pain? please help
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2013, 12:02:40 PM »
I wouldn't get scoped for pfs. Physio, possibly a steroid jab if inflamed or hyaluronic acid if grindy. See a sports physician if suggested by physio
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up















support