Banner - Hide this banner





Author Topic: Back to surgeon and completely gutted  (Read 2141 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bizzylizzie

  • Regular Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
  • Liked: 3
Back to surgeon and completely gutted
« on: February 12, 2013, 04:05:53 PM »
When younger my right knee used to dislocate regularly and as a result I had a successful lateral release. Problem solved or was until the last year or two. Since then my knee has got progressively more painful to the extent that I cannot do most everyday things (even sitting on the sofa) without considerable pain. It also grinds whenever I walk up/down stairs etc.
Anyway I got referred to an orthopedic surgeon who following MRI and X-rays did an arthroscopy to repair a tear in my meniscus and to trim damaged cartilage. Recovered from that but has seemingly made no difference to the pain.
Today I went back to see the consultant. He has said the damage was worse than he thought and is bone on bone. He also discovered my cruciate ligament has completely gone. So all not good.
However what has really left me gutted was his suggested treatment - Nothing!  :o He said nothing he can do, if I was 70 he'd replace my knee but as I'm only 30 nothing he can do. He does not want to see me again.
So now I have bone on bone osteoarthritis, a completely ruptured cruciate ligament and am in pain everyday and there is seriously nothing that can be done for 40 years? Is this right?
The referal to this surgeon was an NHS referal to a private surgeon to hurry it up and the original letter said it may need to be for upto 3 visits (consultation, treatment, follow up). So am wondering if its a case of NHS funding for private treatment run out and so he will not do any more or is there really nothing that can be done?
I find it hard to believe that with the amazing medical advances we have these days that nothing at all can be done until I'm 70. I want/need to be able to live my life now while my children are young and I'm young not when I'm 70. I cannot cope with the daily pain as there is barely anything I can do without pain. I'm not wanting to be able to run a marathon or play football I just want to be able to walk up the stairs, play with my children and be able to do my job is there really nothing that can be done to help me do this?
Does anyone have any advice on what could be done? Anything at all because I am desperate to be able to live my life, do the things I want and not be in constant pain. So please any advice.

Offline kimb

  • Regular Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Liked: 10
Re: Back to surgeon and completely gutted
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2013, 05:17:52 PM »
Surgically there probably isn't a lot that can be done. For what you are looking to do, there probably isn't a reason to replace the ACL as it is unlikely to help the OA, I'd think. There are some minor things you can do that can help with the pain. If you have any excess weight, try to lose it. Eat a joint health diet. Make sure your feet are in alignment and are not contributing to the wear in your knee. You might visit a podiatrist about it to be evaluated to see if you need certain shoes or orthotics. I don't know much about the European system, but if you have access to a chiropractor, see one. They can help with body alignment. It will not resolve the RA but a chiro would be able to evaluate your entire body structure to see if something is contributing to the weight load on that part of your knee, and possibly give you ideas on how to reduce it.
There are things that can help the OA, for sure, but nothing surgically really can be done as far as I understand. In some cases if the OA is a result of incorrect alignment, they can realign the bone structure to take the load off the damaged area.
Frustrating that there isn't more that can be done :( But as of yet some areas of our body just are not possible to reproduce through science and medical means. Articular cartilage is one of them.

Offline allyd

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • Posts: 678
  • Liked: 34
Re: Back to surgeon and completely gutted
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2013, 05:36:26 PM »
As kimb says, this is one area they haven’t found a consistent fix yet for. That doesn't mean there aren't options. You’ll likely want to exhaust all possible treatments possible before seriously looking into a TKR. Keep your own parts as long as possible. There are treatments to manage the symptoms though. Gain/keep proper strength in your knees & legs. Depending on the size/area of the defect, you may be a candidate for procedures like microfracture, ACI, OATS, etc. There are also certain injections that some people have luck with. Complete guess on my part, but a question worth asking possibly – would reconstructing the ACL help slow down the OA?
04/09 RK - Dislocated Patella & Grade III MCL Tear
06/10 RK - Re-Dislocation Patella
09/11 RK - MPFLr + Lateral Lengthening

Offline mmrocker13

  • Forum Faithful
  • ****
  • Posts: 367
  • Liked: 7
Re: Back to surgeon and completely gutted
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2013, 09:09:12 PM »
Is your damage confined to one compartment? (or one compartment and not-severe patellar involvement)

If so, an osteotomy might be a viable option for you.
89: Pat. dislocation, lat. meniscus tear, femoral OCD lesion
89: debridement, chondroplasty, lateral partial menisectomy
02: partial lat. menisc., debride
02: mfx
09: subtotal menisc., debride, c'plasty
10: scope/debride
10: varus DFO
13: HWR
15: total menisc., debride, c'plasty, notchplasty

Offline greatfulgann

  • Regular Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
  • Liked: 6
Re: Back to surgeon and completely gutted
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2013, 10:17:12 PM »
I think there is one thing you CAN do, and that is to find a new doctor.

Offline RLE

  • Forum Faithful
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • Liked: 7
Re: Back to surgeon and completely gutted
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2013, 12:25:15 AM »
Ditto. Take everyone's advice on here they had some good suggestions. Then find a new doctor. Had I listened to the first 9 surgeons I saw I would have lost the use of my right leg entirely except I wouldn't because I would have taken my own life from the pain before that.
Surgeon number 10 fixed me. It's a long road back but it's terrifying to contemplate where I'd be without surgeon number 10.
Accident 2011: permanent dislocation, hole under the patella, bone fragments/debris embedded, scar tissue, 3 torn ligaments, fracture, cartilage sheared off, contracture,
2011 MUA
PT on-going
2012 MPFL reconstruction,TTT
        TTT
        Lateral lengthenin
        Arthroscopy/clean out
Thx Dr. T

Offline Lottiefox

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2393
  • Liked: 16
Re: Back to surgeon and completely gutted
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2013, 08:52:22 AM »
I think there is one thing you CAN do, and that is to find a new doctor.

Seconded!!  8)
Bilateral patella OA since 2009, no surgeries.
Euflexxa working well x3 to current
Right forefoot CRPS post fusion surgery 2011
Refusing to let the ailing parts stop me....

Offline Brambledog

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • Posts: 1079
  • Liked: 10
Re: Back to surgeon and completely gutted
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2013, 11:41:37 AM »
Hi bizzylizzie,

Sorry you've been left in the lurch like this, darn doctor. Definitely get a second opinion as soon as you can - of course it is all wrong that he's just telling you to go away and live like this.... Somewhere out there is another ortho who will give you some options and not give up on you.

Hang in there.

Brams  ;)
2009 - diagnosed coeliac
Aug 2011 - L knee arthroscopy
Aug 2011 - diagnosed PF arthritis L knee
Nov 2011 - diagnosed CRPS L knee
Dec 2011 - MRI R knee, PFOA is worse than L!
June 2012 - no surgery 'til TKR's
Nov 2012 - CRPS spread to L foot/thigh, increasing pain
- Worsening pain/symptoms R knee
;-)

Offline bizzylizzie

  • Regular Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
  • Liked: 3
Re: Back to surgeon and completely gutted
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2013, 11:34:09 PM »
Thank you all, I have an appointment with my own doc tomorrow to find out about a second opinion. Am hoping he will refer me to a new consultant, one who will not give up!
As far I know the main damage is to my patello-femoral joint although I'm not 100% sure about any damage to other areas. Does that rule out an Osteotomy though?
Have done/am doing the strengthening muscles, injections, stronger painkillers and am not over weight at all so kinda feel have exhausted the more conservative treatments with little effect, although obviously I will carry on pursuing these in the meantime. Am not keen on a TKR as the next step just hoping theres some step in between to delay the need for this.
Lets hope my own doctor is forthcoming with a referal for a second opinion.

Offline vickster

  • Administrator
  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4861
  • Liked: 409
  • Neelie knee!
Re: Back to surgeon and completely gutted
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2013, 08:13:12 AM »
Bizzylizzie

There is a patello-femoral specialist in East Anglia whom you could request to see - although he is the top dog so may take a while on the NHS

http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEsurgeon/donnell01/contact.php

http://www.nnuh.nhs.uk/Person.asp?id=211

http://www.spirehealthcare.com/norwich/facilities-treatments-and-consultants/our-consultants/mr-simon-donell/

You can ask to see a surgeon anywhere in the country, on the NHS, or of course, funds permitting, you can pay for a private consultation - which may be worthwhile for the second opinion - you'll definitely see the surgeon you want to see and also you'll get more time.  You still need your GP to agree and refer you.  As Brams says, get your notes and imaging - having further imaging privately can get expensive (£100+ for X-rays and could be £500+ for an MRI!)

Good luck :)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2013, 08:35:19 AM by Vickster »
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline bizzylizzie

  • Regular Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
  • Liked: 3
Re: Back to surgeon and completely gutted
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2013, 07:42:16 PM »
Went to my doctors today who was horrified with the surgeons views. He wanted to request he saw me again but I asked that he instead refer me to my local hospital. So he did a referal today to the orthopeadic team at my local hospital where luck would have it the specialist you mentioned is part of the team! So fingers crossed they will agree to see me, am assuming I will just have to wait and see now. But good news that at least something is being done. Thank you all for your advice. I'm really glad it convinced me to not just accept the first surgeon giving up and hopefully will lead to seeing another consultant who (even more hopefully) may be able to do something to help.

Offline Brambledog

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • Posts: 1079
  • Liked: 10
Re: Back to surgeon and completely gutted
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2013, 11:05:17 PM »
That's brilliant news, will be hoping you get some good news soon  :)

Brams :D
2009 - diagnosed coeliac
Aug 2011 - L knee arthroscopy
Aug 2011 - diagnosed PF arthritis L knee
Nov 2011 - diagnosed CRPS L knee
Dec 2011 - MRI R knee, PFOA is worse than L!
June 2012 - no surgery 'til TKR's
Nov 2012 - CRPS spread to L foot/thigh, increasing pain
- Worsening pain/symptoms R knee
;-)

Offline LindaM

  • Forum Faithful
  • ****
  • Posts: 488
  • Liked: 8
Re: Back to surgeon and completely gutted
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2013, 01:36:03 AM »
Good luck on your referral.  Hopefully a team approach will come up with some workable solution to all of this.  You were lucky the surgeon mentioned was local, I pray you will be fortunate again and get an appointment soon!

Linda :)
>20 yrs. osteo and inflammatory arthritis, fibromyalgia
meniscus repair Sept. 2009
right PKR June 2010
left PKR Feb. 2012

Offline Wookee

  • MICROgeek (<20 posts)
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Liked: 0
    • My Site
Re: Back to surgeon and completely gutted
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2013, 10:42:00 AM »
Good to hear that you're getting a second opinion from an expert in your particular injury. Something similar happened to me when one surgeon decided I wouldn't need any sort of surgery and should seek a desk job ???. It was then that I found out that not all knee surgeons like performing all types of knee surgeries....despite what it might say on their bios ;)
12- L PCL reconstruction with LARS (motorbike)
99- R Meniscus repair (hockey)
98- L Meniscus repair (hockey)

Offline vickster

  • Administrator
  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4861
  • Liked: 409
  • Neelie knee!
Re: Back to surgeon and completely gutted
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2013, 09:35:37 PM »
Good news :)  Are you able to request to see the specific surgeon, or will it be one of his team?
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up















support