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Author Topic: Regression after manipulation  (Read 9077 times)

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Offline Rollerblader

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Re: Regression after manipulation
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2011, 09:48:02 PM »
LER,

I haven't had any pool therapy or been to the pool yet.  I've been told it's great to get in warm water.  I have taken a hot bath with sea salt.  It felt very relaxing.   :)

I had my first followup OS appt this past Thurs which was a little over 3 weeks post manipulation.  The OS was very pleased and prescribed 6 additional weeks of PT.  He did not measure my ROM but my leg was hanging straight down and I could lift my leg into a straight line.  He commented "wasn't it worth it" and I said "it was awful". He said, "i told you it would be painful".  I was also realeased to start driving  and go back to work.

I drove to PT on Fri and my unassisted ROM was 103.  She didn't really push, except while I was laying on my stomach with my knee bent toward ceiling.  My assisted ROM from Wed was 113.

It seems like my progress in the past week has been fantastic.  Ever since I was able to get a full revolution on my recumbant bike and now, i've started riding for 10 min 3 x a day, my leg strength has really improved.

I only took one Aleve this morning and I've felt tighter and a little more swollen than previous days.

The upright bike is awful.  Can you work on a nustep or a recumbant bike.  The seat is not a bike seat, it's more like a chair.  I have found it very comfortable.
 I do feel like I tighted up after I excercise or sit for a while or sleep. 

I hope you start to feel some progress and your appt goes well!

Takr care,

RB

7/26/11-broke patella ORIF 2 scr, fig 8 wire, FWB, fract elbow: pl w/10 scr
8/3/11-Leg IM brace, arm cast
8/11/11-hinges fully on brace, cast rem arm
9/15/11-7wk ckup, ROM 35
9/26/11-MUA knee and elbow, 3 screws rem elbow
10/20/11-ROM 99 able to drive
12/1/11-ROM 145 rel from PT

Offline RLE

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Re: Regression after manipulation
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2011, 03:18:04 AM »
RB,
Glad to hear your progress. It's been really helpful to hear the details of your rehab. I wish others would post as well. I'm stuck at 100 which is ok (but I'm cheating because I use the CPM daily) but the inside of my knee and the top are getting worse. Feels like a band is tightened around my leg and leg is getting weaker. When I bend it it moves but weird, slowly like a tight  wire is attached. I know this isn't normal and isn't progress. I know my body. I have to find a doctor who will help me. My PT changed my therapy to gain some strength in my leg. She's gone far out of her way for me-keeps me an extra half hour and tried all kinds of things.
Let me know your details as you continue progressing. It gives me an idea of "normal"
take care!
Accident 2011: permanent dislocation, hole under the patella, bone fragments/debris embedded, scar tissue, 3 torn ligaments, fracture, cartilage sheared off, contracture,
2011 MUA
PT on-going
2012 MPFL reconstruction,TTT
        TTT
        Lateral lengthenin
        Arthroscopy/clean out
Thx Dr. T

Offline Rollerblader

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Re: Regression after manipulation
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2011, 11:39:45 PM »
LER

Curious to know how things are going???  I hope better!! 

I'm doing very well.  My PT hasn't messured my ROM lately.  I was able to ride an upright static bike for about 10 min today with the seat at a pretty low position.  I think my ROM is about 110 to 115. 

I had real tightness for a while and then it changed to this rubberband type knee, where it felt very unstable when I would walk.  I was compensating by locking my knee joint when it was straight.  My PT wants me to slightly bend my leg when I put my weight on it and when I walk.

I had a different PT for a couple of days.  She is actually my PT's boss.  It was as different as night and day.  My PT does deep maasage and aggressive ROM, while her boss was very gentle.  I almost felt like I hadn't had my PT....  But the results were still good.

Hope you are improving!!!
7/26/11-broke patella ORIF 2 scr, fig 8 wire, FWB, fract elbow: pl w/10 scr
8/3/11-Leg IM brace, arm cast
8/11/11-hinges fully on brace, cast rem arm
9/15/11-7wk ckup, ROM 35
9/26/11-MUA knee and elbow, 3 screws rem elbow
10/20/11-ROM 99 able to drive
12/1/11-ROM 145 rel from PT

Offline RLE

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Re: Regression after manipulation
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2011, 12:01:40 AM »
RB,
Saw my OS today. He said I have a stiff joint and there's nothing more he can do for me. I have to continue PT and the CPM and work on it. I'm stuck at 100. It feels like I'm shoving a refrigerator when I try and bend my knee. Even when it bends its hard and slow. I wonder if I should post about this since I'm scared it will stay this way. The OS said I have to break through the scar tissue (I had a manipulation 3 weeks ago) said there's no point in removing scar tissue since it will only grow back.
I'm feeling sort of hopeless right now and like I don't want to go on.  :'( It's been so much pain and now I don't know what to do.
Accident 2011: permanent dislocation, hole under the patella, bone fragments/debris embedded, scar tissue, 3 torn ligaments, fracture, cartilage sheared off, contracture,
2011 MUA
PT on-going
2012 MPFL reconstruction,TTT
        TTT
        Lateral lengthenin
        Arthroscopy/clean out
Thx Dr. T

Offline Rollerblader

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Re: Regression after manipulation
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2011, 04:20:17 AM »
LER,

So sorry to hear that your OS is giving up on you!  I'd keep working at it and try to stay posative.  There is a section on the board, I think it's called "soft tissue healing problems, arthofibrosis". You may want to search there and possibly post a question there.  There are specialists that deal with this problem.  If you stay stuck at 100 for several more weeks you may want to get a second opinion.

Do you feel like you've gained anything since the manipulation?  Anything, meaning ROM, more or less pain?

I'm so sorry.   :-[. I wish I knew what to tell you. 

There is a Fannyfatigue who posted on my "blog" or whatever you call it.  She had a manipulation and seemed to have  very slow progress, but eventually her ROM came back.  I post under Bone breaks around the knee.

It seems to me like you still have time.  Stay posative!!! Hoping you have a good week!

Take Care!
7/26/11-broke patella ORIF 2 scr, fig 8 wire, FWB, fract elbow: pl w/10 scr
8/3/11-Leg IM brace, arm cast
8/11/11-hinges fully on brace, cast rem arm
9/15/11-7wk ckup, ROM 35
9/26/11-MUA knee and elbow, 3 screws rem elbow
10/20/11-ROM 99 able to drive
12/1/11-ROM 145 rel from PT

Offline RLE

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Re: Regression after manipulation
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2011, 08:55:44 PM »
Hi RB,
Here's an update for any lurkers like I used to be. Last week my back gave out-I posted about it on another thread. Total breakdown. 3 weeks at 100. My leg is stiff and keeps freezing. Really my lowest point. So had a week off of therapy (went Wed and did a couple of things for my back)

Went to PT today-all the PTs dressed up for a contest. Anyway, got on the bike and was able to sit normally and pedal for the first time since I started. No pain. Before couldn't even push the pedal without lifting my entire body up each time and excruciating pain.

Was doing some exercises and trying to bend my knee when the PT came by and measured, her eyes got big and she looked surprised. She measured it again and it was 125. She said my leg is very weak which is why it is stiff-the brain is afraid the knee will give out so it locks up. This is week 10 since my accident. 3 weeks immobilized, 3 more weeks of not being able to bend and this is week 4 since my MUA.
We are working on strengthening my quads. I also can't bend and put weight on it because it's too weak.

So there is some light at the end of the tunnel. I've been through hell and really broke down last week. Won't know if my kneecap is tracking properly for 6 months but at this point things are much better so if anyone reading this is worried, really I didn't believe I'd get to this point.

RB, thanks for continuing to post in response I really appreciate it. It turns out that my doctor has never explained one single thing to me everything I've learned has either been intuitive (i.e. stiff muscles because of pain/weakness) or from this website. Had I known how slow and painful this would be and that it is NORMAL to be slow, painful and stiff I would have been much less frightened and unhappy.
I am going to see Dr. Teige (sp?) if anyone has any info on him I'd appreciate it before spending huge amounts of money traveling across country.
Accident 2011: permanent dislocation, hole under the patella, bone fragments/debris embedded, scar tissue, 3 torn ligaments, fracture, cartilage sheared off, contracture,
2011 MUA
PT on-going
2012 MPFL reconstruction,TTT
        TTT
        Lateral lengthenin
        Arthroscopy/clean out
Thx Dr. T

Offline Lottiefox

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Re: Regression after manipulation
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2011, 10:22:59 PM »
LER

I have lurked on your thread. I am really pleased you've made some gains. Shame on your OS for saying you have a "stiff joint" and giving up on you. Definitely have a look down on the AF section. I think you may have discovered accidentally that sometimes the key to progress with AF is to go really slow and steady - that week break you had from PT seems to have helped so be VERY careful to pace extremely slowly now if you can. Have a look at Rennschenke's posts and tips on rehab after MUA or AF. She has excellent knowledge and is making progress many months after extreme AF issues. It is a LONG process.

We do understand here and keep us updated. Your story will go a long way to helping someone else going through it.

Good luck and well done again on the good progress,

Lottie xx
Bilateral patella OA since 2009, no surgeries.
Euflexxa working well x3 to current
Right forefoot CRPS post fusion surgery 2011
Refusing to let the ailing parts stop me....

Offline Rollerblader

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Re: Regression after manipulation
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2011, 11:42:56 PM »
LER,
 ;D ;D ;D YIPPE!!!   ;D ;D ;D
So Happy for you!!!!  Like Lottie said, the break/rest was good for you!!! 

My leg is very weak too!  My PT has been focusing on me not locking my knee when I put weight on it.  I've done all of these weight bearing exercises with my knee just barely bent to strengthen my muscles around my knee.  The first time I started the strength exercises about a week ago, my knee would click when I would go from straight/locked to bend.  It was very uncomfortable.  But the next time I had less clicking and then today I had very little clicking.  I'm not sure if this is tracking or not, but I've read on these posts and my PT has told me that as my VMO muscles get stronger the clicking will go away.  The VMO are on the sides, I think, of the knee.  These get stronger doing balance type exercises.

I've been stuck at about 110, after my 2 weeks of great progress.  My PT has not been pushing my bend like she was before.  I'm hoping to continue gaining ROM as I have heard my PT say their goal for me is 120 ROM.  I want to get farther than that.  I still have 6 wks of PT so hopefully I'll get close to full ROM.

I'm so happy for you!!! ;D. I couldn't imagine going through a MUA and not getting better!!!  So, so happy for you!!!

Keep up the good work!!!!

P.S.  I agree, the upright bike is awful if you can't get around, it's such an odd feeling.  Now that you can get around, your quads will get stronger!  One thing that I've found is that it takes me a minute or so to still get all the way around, so don't get discouraged.
7/26/11-broke patella ORIF 2 scr, fig 8 wire, FWB, fract elbow: pl w/10 scr
8/3/11-Leg IM brace, arm cast
8/11/11-hinges fully on brace, cast rem arm
9/15/11-7wk ckup, ROM 35
9/26/11-MUA knee and elbow, 3 screws rem elbow
10/20/11-ROM 99 able to drive
12/1/11-ROM 145 rel from PT

Offline RLE

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Re: Regression after manipulation
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2011, 07:18:20 PM »
Lottie and RB,
Thanks for the info. My back is in spasm today and can't sit too long. Will read all the threads/posts when I am able (I find this site hard to navigate) My back and leg went crazy from the intense PT session yesterday. It's two steps back for each step forward and OS says it will take 6 months to see if I need surgery. But important thing is that all this is NORMAL and takes a very long time and we'll just do our best.
Will write more when I can sit longer.
Accident 2011: permanent dislocation, hole under the patella, bone fragments/debris embedded, scar tissue, 3 torn ligaments, fracture, cartilage sheared off, contracture,
2011 MUA
PT on-going
2012 MPFL reconstruction,TTT
        TTT
        Lateral lengthenin
        Arthroscopy/clean out
Thx Dr. T

Offline RLE

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Re: Regression after manipulation
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2011, 04:18:28 PM »
One problem I've had on here is people post and then don't follow up and I'm left wondering what their outcome is. Since I can't write a blog I'll post here and hope I get some comments-RB?

Sunday is my 3 month anniversary of my accident. I had an MUA on Oct. 10. My ROM was 125 and I think it's still about there. My knee is extremely stiff and can't bend normally (i.e. fast-I have to work it slowly. ) It doesn't bend at all when I walk. My therapist said this means I don't have arthrofibrosis or else it wouldn't bend at all. But even after an hour in the pool it's like a monster leg-feels heavy and when I forced it to bend while walking I had to do it marching and in slow motion. This is not even close to normal.

When I sit up in bed I can bend my left knee all the back but there's still about an inch gap when I sit up and try and match the right foot to the left (if this makes sense) it just won't go all the way back. My right knee is extremely weak still.

My PT insisted yesterday I get a cane. I am going to use a crutch (when she's not looking) and try and walk on just one crutch. The pain is better and the tightness is better. I'm going twice a week to the pool and once a week to the office. I am able to do lunges and kick in the pool, neither of which I can do on land. My PT says this is good news since I'll then be able to do these on land. When??

She also said I only need 4-6 weeks more of physical therapy and I can't imagine that from this point in 4 to 6 weeks I'll be walking normally. I had to beg her for 3 days a week of therapy instead of 2. I do like her. She pushes me and I know she cares and she's been very kind on the other hand when I fell apart from stress but I also feel like she's not being realistic.

So I guess to sum it up, my pain level is better and the leg is slowly getting stronger but it's still stiff and still doesn't bend anywhere close to normally. I'm still on crutches and can't get around well. On the plus side as a result of the pain I've lost my appetite and have lost 30lbs.
Any comments, thoughts etc appreciated.
Accident 2011: permanent dislocation, hole under the patella, bone fragments/debris embedded, scar tissue, 3 torn ligaments, fracture, cartilage sheared off, contracture,
2011 MUA
PT on-going
2012 MPFL reconstruction,TTT
        TTT
        Lateral lengthenin
        Arthroscopy/clean out
Thx Dr. T















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