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Author Topic: Consult with Centeno-Schultz clinic  (Read 10050 times)

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Offline Scooter72

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Re: Consult with Centeno-Schultz clinic
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2011, 05:41:05 AM »
Wow, gotta point out a glaring coincidence here...

"jonhark" and "markld" were treated by the same doctor, both for ACI, and both have had ACI failure, and are seeking other treatment. 

Guys, again, don't direct your anger here, and possibly deter others from seeking a treatment that may improve their quality of life. 

Tell you guys what, I will continue to post my experiences.  Make a judgement from that, ok?

And to verify my identity and thus eliminate concerns over deception, I volunteer to be contacted by the administrator of this site.  I will give the administrator my info, and he/she can confirm that I do have a science background, and that I am active at a research institution here in the USA.

Does this sound reasonable to you two "boo-birds"?  (If not, I have no idea what could possibly convince you)

Offline rob wilson

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Re: Consult with Centeno-Schultz clinic
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2011, 02:41:18 PM »
I have had so many orthopedic conditions improved by prolotherapy, PRP, HGH, and Regenexx. Not magic but it can work. Different injections work for different issues. The problem is that it is expensive and many times you need MANY injections.
1997-Bilateral debridement
1999-Lt knee trochlea paste graft
2000-Rt knee trochlea paste graft
2000-Lt knee scar
2002-Lt knee ACI biopsy+plica
2002-Lt knee medial condyle abrasion+HGH
2002-Lt knee scar
2003-Rt knee trochlea abrasion+HGH
2005-Lt knee plica
2008 to present-Regenexx

jonhark

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Re: Consult with Centeno-Schultz clinic
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2011, 03:06:37 PM »
HaHa, you are really witty and entertaining Scooter. For someone whose never had this procedure, you seem way too big an advocate. Were you that big an advocate of microfracture before it failed? Oh by the way, microfracture is a 1980's technology and not the "gold standard" in cartilage repair. Cell-based concepts like ACI and Denovo NT are gold standard. I tell you what. You provide a 1 year post op MRI of your knee with 100% cartilage fill after Regenexx and we'll compare it  to my two sucessful ACI surgeries which resurfaced a combined 14 CM^2. Until then, stop selling your snake oil online and gimme a break buddy.

PS: Would love to debate you on politics as well. You gotta be a raging lib to reference "W" on a knee site. That would be fun. 

Offline markld

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Re: Consult with Centeno-Schultz clinic
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2011, 04:04:11 PM »
Scooter, Are you always this truculent with those whom simply disagree with you?

Wow you have a science background Scooter? Am I supposed to be impressed by that? What about the other thousand folks who have a science background, are they wrong if they disagree with you? Simply having a science background does not make you the foremost authority on the matter....

As far as Jon and I having the same surgeon goes simply couln't be farther from the truth. Jon had his surgery in Boston and I had mine in California. Don't know where you are getting your info, but it's about as acurate as the rest of the crap that you continue to spew......

I don't need to prove any of the ascertations in which I make here, however the burden of proof lies with you, since this is new science and there is no concrete evidence to back up a word you say, so SHOW ME THE MONEY, in other words, PROVE IT, give some convincing evidence, before and after radiographs etc that demonstarte complete fill....

To anyone reading this, you may want to ask yourself; why does this guy take this stuff so personal with the attacks and insults that he wages, especially for someone whom claims not to have a horse in this race. Hard to believe this guy is not somehow affiliated with Regenexx given his odious behavior.
April 2008 microfracture left knee trochlea
Jan 2009 ACI harvest from right knee
Mar 2009 ACI right knee trochlea
July 2009 Aci left knee
Nov 2009 left knee scope to check graft

Offline Scooter72

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Re: Consult with Centeno-Schultz clinic
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2011, 06:55:47 PM »
Jonhark, from your previous post history, I picked up that one of your ACIs failed.  Is this not so?  And I picked up from previous posts, that you both had the same Dr.  Perhaps I was mistaken, but your posts seemed to indicate it.  At the very least, I am sure that both of you have expressed disappointment over having failed ACIs. 
And Jon, I am perfectly willing to report my successes or failures here, with regards to Regenexx.  That was the point of opening this thread.. you know, the one which you decided to visit for some odd reason(s).

Mark, I was not an “advocate” of mfx before I had it, I was indifferent based on what I had read. I did it because statistics show it has worked for a subset of those with small lesions.  Initially, my lesion was small on the MRI, but when the Dr went in, it ended up being much larger due to cartilage flaking off the periphery of the lesion easily upon debridement.  So at that point (and I remember this since I was conscious for the surgery and observing a monitor), what was I supposed to do?  I took a chance with it, and it didn't quite work.  No fault of the surgeons, or the team of health care professionals (i.e. PTs and nurses) who were involved.

Mark, you say the "burden of proof" lies with me?  I provided at least one link to the Regenexx site with case studies and explanations of the procedure.  It's not just for show either.. they discuss the science and statistics. If you don't want to take the time to look, then there is no point in arguing with you, because, you choose ignorance and obtusity.

  You say that having a science background doesn't mean I am "the foremost" authority? Honestly, any impartial observer would look at that statement and laugh.  It’s akin to Homer Simpson walking up to Susskind and telling him, “Just because you have a background in theoretical psychics.. err I mean physics and err.. umm.. that stringie theoree, doesn’t mean you can tell me how the universe started!” (Doh!) Nice strawman there.. but the fact is that I do understand what is likely going on at the cellular (and molecular) level, with respect to this procedure.  So yes, unless you have a similar background and/or understanding, then I am far more of an "authority" than you or Jon. 
Rob, understand that it may take multiple injections for some.  I was graded in the “fair” category by Dr. Schultz in part, due to my previous mfx surgery.  I cannot be sure, but it’s possible that I would be in the “good” category if I had no prior mfx history.  So if you, or anyone else has had multiple invasive procedures done to the knee, that would be ONE factor in determining how well Regenexx-SD would work, IMO.

One final question to Mark and Jon: Why are you here, in this thread?  You don’t believe in the procedure, then tell us why?  There are case studies and hard-core papers in reputable scientific journals to support this modality of treatment. 

Ignorance is one thing, but deliberate ignorance coupled with verbalization off flawed opinion is dangerous.  There are people here that are caught between a “rock and a hard place”.  I personally know two such people, who have had invasive surgeries (knee and spine respectively) only to experience failure.  They are scared.  Their doctors have “politely” abandoned them, saying there is nothing more that can surgically be done.  Stem cell treatments such as that employed by Regenexx are the future, and may be helpful in their CURRENT form. 
Mark and Jon, here is one basic paper explaining MSC therapy, with a case study included in it.  Some of the jargon may be foreign to you, but I would be happy to answer questions.

Follow this link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18786777

Click on the "Elsevier full text" radio button in the top right, and then proceed to download the pdf file (it's free).


« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 07:00:48 PM by Scooter72 »

Offline The KNEEguru

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Re: Consult with Centeno-Schultz clinic
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2011, 07:11:12 PM »
Too much aggro here ...

Both viewpoints have been aired - am locking this thread now.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 07:13:24 PM by The KNEEguru »
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