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Author Topic: Anyone......Quadricep Shrunk  (Read 15875 times)

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Offline vsummer1

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Re: Anyone......Quadricep Shrunk
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2011, 02:30:05 PM »
You wrote:  "Then why would my PT do friction massage to break up the scar tissue and when I had a ultrasound scan the Doctor that looked at the screen said it was scar tissue only to say in my report a thickening of the collateral ligament but 110% was certain he told me it was scar tissue!"

I can only surmise that the cause of the thickening of your collateral ligament is scar tissue.  They just don't write that in the report as it is understood by the medical people, and it would be too easy to write something normal people could read  :(
12/11/10 Displaced Transverse Patellar Fx
12/14/10 ORIF
1/3/11 Staples out, Bledsoe OR Brace: Locked WB, 45 deg NWB
1/24 brace locked for WB 6 more weeks
1/31 1st PT: got to 50 (goal 45) 6 wk goal 90
3/7 - at 62 deg HW pokes out; wire front of knee cut down 4 stitches; FWB no brace

Offline Clarkey

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Re: Anyone......Quadricep Shrunk
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2011, 09:52:50 PM »
Hi Karen,

I agree with you that I should avoid using the leg extensions and happy using the leg press instead. I have been told by many KG members give IMS a chance as it may help solve or reduce then knee pain and will have a 2nd scope as a last option if conservative methods fail. As long as you stick to rehab after surgery and follow strict guide lines from your OS can beat AF and scar tissue.

vsummer1, I think you may be right that the collateral ligament is scar tissue and they always make it sound too technical on the report.

I am going to see my Physio sometime next week to give me advise about increasing my quad size. I hope it improves the pain at the bottom of my right knee that still remains swollen 15 months post op. Fingers crossed IMS works but if it does I am not afraid of having a 2nd scope but will not think about it unless it happened.

Nick :) {2011} :)

RK: PFPS, Arthrofibrosis, Tendinopathy, Five cortisone injections
16/01/18 Anterior interval release, distal patella excision, lateral meniscal repair
18/07/14 Anterior interval release  
16/11/09 Medial plica excision, fat pad trimming

Offline mermaids

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Re: Anyone......Quadricep Shrunk
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2011, 08:42:28 AM »
Don't forget about your diet.  After my TTT (which was my 3rd surgery in less than two years), my OS suggested that I really bump up the protein and fat in my diet.  (I am quite thin and otherwise healthy)  He said to build muscle, you need the right exercise and the right fuel in your body.  It is very interesting... after a killer PT session, I am ravenous and crave something hearty like a bacon cheeseburger. 

I clicked on this thread because I am fighting desperately to keep my quad from shrinking.  My TTT was only three months after a scope that did not heal well.  My poor little quad was a shriveled mess by the time the TTT healed enough to get serious in the PT clinic.  We worked so hard and we were finally starting to see some muscle coming back, there was almost definition.  It was very exciting and gratifying until I tore the cartilage and PCL in the same knee.  Ugh.  Suddenly, I could no longer do any of the quad building exercises because any time I tighten the quad, it pulls the patella across the cartilage tear and is extremely painful.  At less than four months post op, I went from being able to to do 50 pounds with only the bad leg on the leg press to unable to do even a straight leg raise.  So, now we are struggling to find things I can do to strengthen the quad while we wait to see if the HA injections will help the tear... because I really, really don't want to have yet another surgery. 

I have done e-stim, HA injections, Russian stim, and started pool therapy this week. 
12/90 - scope
12/08 - lateral release
6/10 - scope (aborted attempt at TTT)
9/10 - Fulkerson TTT
12/10 - torn cartilage & possibly PCL

*results may not be typical*

Offline Clarkey

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Re: Anyone......Quadricep Shrunk
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2011, 11:12:50 AM »
Hi There,

Can anyone give me tips on how to get my right quads the same size as my left quads that was not operated on. I go to the gym 3 times a week and use the bike, cross trainer and treadmill for 20 minutes on each machine and my right quads are nice and firm but are a few inches smaller in size then my left quads. Would it be a benefit to use the rowing machine and use the leg press machine to try and get my right quads to a larger size again as it was pe op.

Nick  :) {2011} :)


Since the above post I have now fully recovered from my knee surgery and can now run, kneel and squat more and less pain free. The only thing that bothers me now is that I cannot seem to get my right quads larger so it is the same size as my left quads. I am sure it can be done and do not believe that they you can never get them large again. Will leg weights and jogging increase the quads in size as it would be nice if both quads where the same size again!

Nick :) {2011} :)
RK: PFPS, Arthrofibrosis, Tendinopathy, Five cortisone injections
16/01/18 Anterior interval release, distal patella excision, lateral meniscal repair
18/07/14 Anterior interval release  
16/11/09 Medial plica excision, fat pad trimming

Offline Suejs14

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Re: Anyone......Quadricep Shrunk
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2011, 02:34:49 AM »
Nick,
My PT does not want me doing any strengthening exercises with my good leg (it's taken the load for the past 4 months) - so I start the leg press with both legs and drop the good one until the last rep then add it back.  Maybe all your exercises are working both quads and the good one just had a head start and the other can't catch up if you work both?

I know this is a very naive response, which makes sense to an average kneegeek.

Sue JS
4/04 R knee partial meniscectomy
4/24/11 L patella comminuted fx
4/27 ORIF (2 of @ 6 pieces pin & wire together)
5/10 Staples out
6/7 from full leg immobilizer to brace set at 70 degrees flex
6/16 begin PT with 45 degrees ROM
7/14 75 ROM
7/21 81 ROM
8/2  102 ROM
11/30 127 ROM

Offline slyguy1

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Re: Anyone......Quadricep Shrunk
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2011, 10:32:51 AM »
Interesting post.....i totally agree with what snowy pointed out. Healing takes a lot of time especially if they are joint related. There are many ways to get the quads bigger but as snowy pointed out must increase weight and rest appropriately. Doing a lot of reps with lighter weight will not increase size as i learned.....running will also not increase size of quads....it will tone. Everybody is different in their capability .....if leg extensions were that bad for you nobody would do them.....guessing machine would not be there.There is a right and wrong way of doing leg extensions and i would ask the PT if you have one and as long as you don't overdo it it does help tendons around knee get strong. I've learned that to get the most benefit it's important to get your whole body strong.....i try to mix upperbody and lower body routines.The hamstring muscles get weak if you neglect it by working too much quads so make sure you balance your workouts. The standard basic leg raises and wall squats are still the best when i can't get to the gym....my 2cents

Offline Clarkey

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Re: Anyone......Quadricep Shrunk
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2011, 05:48:25 PM »
Hi All,

Snowy gave some very good advise a couple of months ago and just wanted to know if jogging would increase the quads and kind of knew they would not as slyguy1 pointed out. I go to the gym 3 times a week and use the leg press and leg extension machines. I know a staff member at the gym who gives advise to members at the gym about what workouts to do for to build up on specific muscles of the body. Is it safe to do one leg presses rather then use both legs as you then putting more pressure on the quads so should become bigger quicker or is too much of a risk on a operated knee as Sue JS has mentioned.

Nick :) {2011} :)

RK: PFPS, Arthrofibrosis, Tendinopathy, Five cortisone injections
16/01/18 Anterior interval release, distal patella excision, lateral meniscal repair
18/07/14 Anterior interval release  
16/11/09 Medial plica excision, fat pad trimming

Offline Brambledog

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Re: Anyone......Quadricep Shrunk
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2011, 09:12:44 PM »
I was glad to see this thread...my quads are just mush (very accurate term!) after knee pain, limping and crutches since January.

I'm doing PT and am starting hydro next week, but the exercises I was given (slight squats, side leg raises, attempting leg raises - can't do it at all yet!, gentle lunges) were all before my diagnosis of patellofemoral arthritis the other day and my next appointment with my physio isn't for a week. I've been doing a lot of reading, and lots of different sites and people say that doing this kind of exercise with PFA will just aggravate it and make it worse. I can certainly feel the pain under the front of my knee when I try them.

How true is this and what should I do? I'm going to ring the physio on Tuesday (good old bank holiday) but in the meantime I'm scared to risk them.

Ho hum.  ;)
2009 - diagnosed coeliac
Aug 2011 - L knee arthroscopy
Aug 2011 - diagnosed PF arthritis L knee
Nov 2011 - diagnosed CRPS L knee
Dec 2011 - MRI R knee, PFOA is worse than L!
June 2012 - no surgery 'til TKR's
Nov 2012 - CRPS spread to L foot/thigh, increasing pain
- Worsening pain/symptoms R knee
;-)

Offline LKnees

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Re: Anyone......Quadricep Shrunk
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2011, 04:38:24 AM »
I had a TTT in January and I'm only now starting to see a slight improvement in my quads. It's frustrating waiting so long. I was starting to think it would never come back.

Offline Suejs14

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Re: Anyone......Quadricep Shrunk
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2011, 05:13:00 PM »
Brambledog:  I was given new PT exercises a couple of weeks ago and developed a sharp pain below my knee.  It almost felt like a bad tibia bone bruise.  PT said lay off rehab until it resolves (took five days to completely go away) and use ice.  Someone on the board suggested it might be patellar tendonitis.

Now I'm back doing what I was before without trouble.  I am being more careful to warm up prior to the exercises and to cool down with a couple of laps around the track and some stretching.

Good luck, ice and rehab conscientiously

Sue JS
4/04 R knee partial meniscectomy
4/24/11 L patella comminuted fx
4/27 ORIF (2 of @ 6 pieces pin & wire together)
5/10 Staples out
6/7 from full leg immobilizer to brace set at 70 degrees flex
6/16 begin PT with 45 degrees ROM
7/14 75 ROM
7/21 81 ROM
8/2  102 ROM
11/30 127 ROM

Offline Clarkey

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Re: Anyone......Quadricep Shrunk
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2011, 05:36:24 PM »
Hi All,

I would say my quads are nice and firm as they felt like jelly for a few month post op just now need to increase my quads in size and it can be done and will have a word with Collin at my local gym who does some personal training so can give me some guidance and advise on how to go about increasing the size of my right quads.

Brambledog, Lisa & Sue JS it easy to get the quads firm again with PT but hard to get the quads to increase in size post op.

Nick :) {2011} :) 
RK: PFPS, Arthrofibrosis, Tendinopathy, Five cortisone injections
16/01/18 Anterior interval release, distal patella excision, lateral meniscal repair
18/07/14 Anterior interval release  
16/11/09 Medial plica excision, fat pad trimming

Offline Brambledog

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Re: Anyone......Quadricep Shrunk
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2011, 05:59:52 PM »
Thanks Suejs14 and Clarkey.

My problem with the exercises to strengthen quads is that they tend to focus a lot of pressure on my kneecap, which is where my arthritis and PAIN is.  Are there exercises I can do that don't overload my patella at the moment? I find it difficult to do enough reps to make any sort of difference without causing some horrendous pain, then I end up suffering the next day as well and feel like I'm taking one step forward and another one back!

I'm doing the straight leg tightening, and the ROM exercises, but even they cause pain. But the mini squats, lunges and cycling are a mare... I'm waiting to speak to my physio about this (she's away) but don't want to not be doing enough (double negative there, whoops).

 ;)
2009 - diagnosed coeliac
Aug 2011 - L knee arthroscopy
Aug 2011 - diagnosed PF arthritis L knee
Nov 2011 - diagnosed CRPS L knee
Dec 2011 - MRI R knee, PFOA is worse than L!
June 2012 - no surgery 'til TKR's
Nov 2012 - CRPS spread to L foot/thigh, increasing pain
- Worsening pain/symptoms R knee
;-)

Offline Clarkey

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Re: Anyone......Quadricep Shrunk
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2011, 05:34:14 PM »
Hi Brambledog,

Sorry you still experiencing knee pain and before I had IMS sessions I was unable to run and hurt to kneel and squat and felt pressure and pain along my kneecap every time I fully squatted. After having four IMS sessions I was able to run again and could kneel and squat more and less pain free.

IMS is stands for intramuscular stimulation dry needling a medical form of acupuncture and linked with nerve pain and very tight leg muscles and IMS loosens the muscles that reduces the nerve pain. I had it done under the NHS under Dr Grahame Brown at the Birmingham Royal Orthopaedic Hosptal.

It may not solve you knee pain but could reduce it and is worth looking into as it worked well for me!

Nick  :) {2011} :)
RK: PFPS, Arthrofibrosis, Tendinopathy, Five cortisone injections
16/01/18 Anterior interval release, distal patella excision, lateral meniscal repair
18/07/14 Anterior interval release  
16/11/09 Medial plica excision, fat pad trimming

Offline Brambledog

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Re: Anyone......Quadricep Shrunk
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2011, 06:05:26 PM »
Thanks Clarkey, I've not heard of IMS before. I had my first hydro session today and feel a lot more positive. It might take a while, but they think I'll be able to get some significant improvement, so I'm going to work hard like a good girl and see what happens. I might have to make some tougher decisions down the line but for now I'm going to cross my fingers and hope that the hydro and physio make enough difference to keep the surgeons knife away for a while!

 ;)
2009 - diagnosed coeliac
Aug 2011 - L knee arthroscopy
Aug 2011 - diagnosed PF arthritis L knee
Nov 2011 - diagnosed CRPS L knee
Dec 2011 - MRI R knee, PFOA is worse than L!
June 2012 - no surgery 'til TKR's
Nov 2012 - CRPS spread to L foot/thigh, increasing pain
- Worsening pain/symptoms R knee
;-)

Offline Clarkey

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Re: Anyone......Quadricep Shrunk
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2011, 12:03:02 PM »
Hi Brambledog,

I saw Dr Grahame Brown for my IMS sessions under the NHS at the Birmimgham Royal Orthopaedic Hospital at the sports injury clinic. He also works at private hospitals and does IMS there as well. I found Dr Brown a really nice guy and treats his patients with respect and really cares about his patients.

http://www.drgrahamebrown.co.uk/

He works at the Droitwich Spa Hospital on a Saturday morning and would not be too far for you to travel and does not charge as much as an OS and is worth paying to see him.

Nick  :) {2011} :)
RK: PFPS, Arthrofibrosis, Tendinopathy, Five cortisone injections
16/01/18 Anterior interval release, distal patella excision, lateral meniscal repair
18/07/14 Anterior interval release  
16/11/09 Medial plica excision, fat pad trimming















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