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Author Topic: mri misses, meniscus, arthroscopy, pain.  (Read 9869 times)

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Offline Vickster

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Re: [Not local, need advices] New here, normal knee mri but persistent pain
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2010, 08:22:42 AM »
I had a scope around 7 weeks ago to deal with a torn meniscus - wasn't repairable, but only 10-15% of the lateral one removed - as my OS pointed out, not too bad especially as we have two (I also had the back of my knee cap shaved and a wash out).  Day surgery with GA, in at midday, home by 10pm (I assume yours is a day op too). 

The operation isn't that long so you should get over the anaesthetic fairly quickly.  You'll be sleepy for a couple of days, but you won't want to do much anyhow.  I was told to use crutches for up to 3 weeks, had more or less ditched them after 2 weeks.  Stitches out after a week.  I had a couple of PT sessions afterwards, at a week and 2 weeks post (this probably varies by country and PT/OS).  Pain wise - I had a 5 day course of anti-inflammatories and had some other painkillers for a few days (more because the OS told me to take them, than having a lot of pain).  I was given bed exercises (SLRs, static quads, heel slides) to do regularly afterwards to get back ROM (was almost full after a week).

I have been back in the gym now for around 3 weeks, able to do a decent cardio workout at least every other day.  I have also been on my bicycle (had to get back in the saddle asap as it was falling off that did for my knee).  I cannot walk that far or fast or use a treadmill without pain, but I had extensive bone bruising from the fall and think that might still be an issue :(  All in all, feels pretty good, better than it was before the scope, albeit a bit niggly. 

I hope it all goes well for you - the recovery and rehab does depend on what is done, but if you are young and fit, it should all be good :)
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline xhui

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Re: [Not local, need advices] New here, normal knee mri but persistent pain
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2010, 03:00:47 PM »
Thanks Vickster for posting and encouragements, really need them.

Some updates from the doc after they drew blood from me.. Had a turn of events, though i'm still proceeding with the arthroscopy, they found high amount of uric acid and suspects gout (which may cause joint pain??). Oh well, was caught off guard, didn't thought this could come up from the tests. Really kind of confused now, what is gout by the way? Did some googling and sort of points to the joint pain, but it seems to come in periods and with certain intensity especially at night? Is gout arthritis?

This (gout thing) doesn't seem to sit with my symptoms (I remembered the injury event, pain on the joint line and across knee when weight bearing, alot of clicking, now it is starting to catch a bit behind my knee when i go up and down the stairs (had to wriggle a bit to bend it), when i stand up from a sitting position, can feel/hear some grinding of the knee area, can't really hyper extend or straighten my knee anymore, pain in the medial knee area, weak knee as i've almost fell over a few times!) This has been a slow build on of symptoms and now it is coming to 5 months from injury.

Help! anyone can shed some light to what i'm doing and what else i should do?  :'( I'm pretty disturbed with the findings too, though this is something I've to face and seek treatment eventually.

Think i'm looking for more encouragements also.. My surgery is in 3 days time, this Thursday, I really really hope the OS finds something in this knee of mine. Some advices on what to expect and prepare for post op would really be helpful also! (The other thread on what to expect post surgery was really helpful too..)  :-\
Nov 09 - injury: twisted left knee
Jan 10  - first appointment with Ortho doc
Feb 10  - MRI showed normal, nothing conclusive
Mar 10  - started PT for a month
15 Apr 10 - Arthroscopy, medial meniscus trim (frayings)

Offline xhui

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Re: [Not local, need advices] New here, normal knee mri but persistent pain
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2010, 11:52:13 AM »
For all that's worth, here's the findings from my arthroscopy I had today:

findings in short, medial meniscus frayings, trimmings were done. Didn't know even with minor tears could cause so much pain and discomfort. Now on painkillers and I woke from General Anesthesia without any side effects. The falling asleep feelings were rather pleasant even! The time taken from pre op prep to waking takes less then 2hrs!

Going back to the doctor tomorrow for a better understanding and change of dressing. Hope to start PT soon.

Thanks to everyone who's been real helpful and encouraging. Maybe if not for all you guys I just might still be suffering the pain with little courage to proceed with the scope. :)
Nov 09 - injury: twisted left knee
Jan 10  - first appointment with Ortho doc
Feb 10  - MRI showed normal, nothing conclusive
Mar 10  - started PT for a month
15 Apr 10 - Arthroscopy, medial meniscus trim (frayings)

Offline Clarkey

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Re: [Not local, need advices] New here, normal knee mri but persistent pain
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2010, 07:50:21 PM »
Sorry I did not wish you good luck for your surgery, I post on so many posts that I sometimes forget certain post. The GA is not too bad as it was my 1st GA with an injection, had gas as a kid at the dentist and was not at all nice, but the injection as you mentioned feels nice just before you fall asleep. The side affects are minimal all I had was a slight headache and sore throat but soon went away after a good nights sleep.

Hope your scope is more successful then mine as my knee worse off 5 months post op then it was before my scope but I sure your surgery will be more successful. The knee going to feel pretty sore for the next couple of days so keep on top of your pain meds.

Nick :) {2010} :)
RK: PFPS, Arthrofibrosis, Tendinopathy, Five cortisone injections
16/01/18 Anterior interval release, distal patella excision, lateral meniscal repair
18/07/14 Anterior interval release  
16/11/09 Medial plica excision, fat pad trimming

Offline xhui

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Re: [Not local, need advices] New here, normal knee mri but persistent pain
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2010, 12:19:27 PM »
Thanks Nick for the thought, am really hoping my recovery goes smoothly..

Hope yours is in the midst of something helpful for you?

1st day after op, seen doctor and had a change of dressing, first time see what was done on my knee. Was kindof horrified by the amount of blood(dried up though), but was surprised how minimal or small the incision was! Just 2 stitches on each of the cut. Was told to keep the swelling down by icing it. Doc says I could remove the bandage and wear my knee guard to control the swelling? (there's still the gauze on e cuts).

Just a question, how fast should I get back to physiotherapy? Some miscommunication, not sure why the counter staff told me to give my PT a call to arrange an appointment instead of what my doc said she would put me back with my PT.  Anyway seeing my PT next Tuesday, guess it'll be quite different sets of exercise compared to my pre op? (pre op e meniscus tear wasn't even diagnosed).
Nov 09 - injury: twisted left knee
Jan 10  - first appointment with Ortho doc
Feb 10  - MRI showed normal, nothing conclusive
Mar 10  - started PT for a month
15 Apr 10 - Arthroscopy, medial meniscus trim (frayings)

Offline Clarkey

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Re: [Not local, need advices] New here, normal knee mri but persistent pain
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2010, 10:36:40 AM »
The incisions are small and after a couple of months are left with a tiny scar and hope you do not have problems with scar tissue as I am having 5 months after my scope. I changed my dressing every day after my scope, and ended up with a plaster over the incisions to protect the stiches and stopsping germs.

You need to keep on top of your physio as soon as you can, to work on your ROM and will be painful to start of with, but should improve over time.

Good luck with the PT and enjoy the weekend.

Nick :) {2010} :)
RK: PFPS, Arthrofibrosis, Tendinopathy, Five cortisone injections
16/01/18 Anterior interval release, distal patella excision, lateral meniscal repair
18/07/14 Anterior interval release  
16/11/09 Medial plica excision, fat pad trimming

Offline xhui

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Re: mri misses, meniscus, arthroscopy, pain.
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2010, 03:44:43 PM »
Hi guys,

It's been about 2weeks+ after my scope for the meniscus trim ("irregularities over body & anterior horn of medial meniscus"). Been having some hits and misses (pain mostly), was wondering if anyone can shed some light on what's happening..

I've visited my PT 3 days after my scope and was taught some more exercises and stretches to build on the quads and help in straightening and flexing that knee. I've goto say my ROM is almost back fully (I could straighten and bend past 100 degrees). But, these aren't without pain. Especially when i straighten my knee and "extend" if using my quad (sorry, is the technical term called hyper extend?).. Stairs aren't that easy to do still especially the going down part. Oh, i was able to flex my knee pretty well prior the surgery though extending them does bring on more pain.

When i do stairs (mainly down) or just plain walking, the pain is a frustrating one across the knee cap (seems to be across the 2 incisions areas) and after a while of standing or walking around, it starts getting "tangled" on the left (it feels like something's obstructing the flexing of the knee), back of my knee! Lots of pain when i bend the knee and put weight on it.. I was thinking also, does scar tissue forms even for a simple arthroscopy procedure for the trim?

Oh, i also did checked with my doc on the numbness around the left incision, outer side of my knee.. kind of surprised she refuted my claims and said some stuffs to brush them off.. It was really "interesting" to experience more awkward and occasional PAIN (sharp) on the left side rather on my medial side too (though not enjoyable definitely!) Pins and needles feelings comes and go too.. left side, again. Incision wounds are still tender when accidentally brushed against. ouch.

I'm confused if this surgery has done me any good as my pain now seems rather similar to the ones i had before the surgery! Or am i being too impatient? I've still some swellings around the wound areas and above the knee cap.. am praying these are the ones giving me the pain.. yet i can't seem to differentiate them now.. help?  :-\
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 03:47:09 PM by xhui »
Nov 09 - injury: twisted left knee
Jan 10  - first appointment with Ortho doc
Feb 10  - MRI showed normal, nothing conclusive
Mar 10  - started PT for a month
15 Apr 10 - Arthroscopy, medial meniscus trim (frayings)

Offline xhui

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Re: mri misses, meniscus, arthroscopy, pain.
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2010, 03:40:24 AM »
I'm now 4 weeks (1 month) from my scope. To be real honest, my knee is back to square one or even worse (I really didn't want to admit this!!)..  :-\

Everything's back with major sharp pain across the knee front with slight pain on the inner side. But i've 'acquired' some new pains as well. Now the nerve issues have been quite frustrating as the constant "tearing", "shooting" pain is really bad especially when i bend or stretch my knee.

knee gets "stuck" in a locked position when i stand too long (say 3mins?), have to forcefully (painfully) bend to start walking again Stairs are impossible. Really stiff and difficult to bend the knee made me wonder what have i made myself go through..

sigh, feeling rather helpless now. And my PT and OS have to keep telling me, I'm supposed to be back on my feet normally as of, say, last week?

Should i seek a 2nd opinion?  :(
Nov 09 - injury: twisted left knee
Jan 10  - first appointment with Ortho doc
Feb 10  - MRI showed normal, nothing conclusive
Mar 10  - started PT for a month
15 Apr 10 - Arthroscopy, medial meniscus trim (frayings)

Offline kris_83

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Re: mri misses, meniscus, arthroscopy, pain.
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2010, 01:10:53 PM »
ugh! So sorry to hear this! What sort of feedback are you getting from your OS? I suspect they are unlikely to admit that anything he/she did is what's causing your new pain. My thoughts are with you today!
12/09 dx- patellar subluxation (not!)
1/10 mri- neg; PT rx failed
4/10 more PT
5/10 dx patellar hypertension
6/7/10 chrondroplasty, patellar decompression, synovectomy and plica excision
5/6/11 dx RA, sjogren's

Offline tez27

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Re: mri misses, meniscus, arthroscopy, pain.
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2010, 02:01:49 PM »
Hi xhui
Sorry things are not working out for you the way you hoped. I feel extra sorry because I advised you to push for the scope in the first place, but what I think happens with some doc's [not all of them there are some really good ones out there] is that they go into the knee and the first problem they find they fix and leave everything else as is, hopeing that will be enough to sort the knee out unfortunatly in some cases there is more going on that still needs to be addressed.
When are you due back to see your o.s? I think you need to get back into see him asap and see what he thinks is going on now.
Take care Tez
L K injured 25th June 2008
scope Jan 5th 10
diagnosis ACL rupture
fiberous band excised from acl
ACLr July 19th 2010  scope on 24th Sept 2011
ACL has failed incorrect tunnel placement
23rd July 2012 1st stage of a 2 stage ACL revision
10th May 2013 2nd stage ACL revision

Offline xhui

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Re: mri misses, meniscus, arthroscopy, pain.
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2010, 04:11:03 PM »
hi kris & tez,

your replies are enough to allow a restful sleep tonight for me.. thanks for the kind thoughts/words.

My OS met me (briefly) after 2 weeks to remove my sutures and mentioned (briefly again), "ok, the knee doesn't looked too bad, you should be back to normal pretty fast." When i enquired about the numbness and weird shooting feelings around the left incision, I could almost hear a pin drop while waiting for an answer. If i remembered correctly, she replied me with an "the numbness can't be from the surgery, its on the left side, how could it be if my cut is on the kneecap?!" I persisted and she brushed me aside saying she'll see me in 2 months time for a review..

Things started getting worse down the 3 and now, 4 weeks time. EVERYTHING is coming back with some extras onto it. Today while taking the public transport back (it gets really crowded here and seats are luxuries during peak hours), I could barely walk. I've terrible sharp cutting, stretching pains on my medial (almost to the back of the knee) and quite a bit of pain and knots on the outer-towards the back knee and of course, my favourite, constant major pain across the front of my knee.

Oh, I think my good knee is going to crash soon too. Let's see how long more it can last.

I really wonder what's wrong with this limb of mine.. I thought my OS fixed the "minor" meniscus problem (which she claimed it was sooo minor). sigh.

@kris
You're absolutely right on the not admitting part. I was just hopeful she could understand. I'm not trying to cast blame but I seriously want this knee to get better. Thanks for the thoughts.

@tez
hey there, don't at all feel bad, please ok? It was my decision to go ahead and I wouldn't know what else to do also. I kind of agree that (and was suspecting all the while) if she could have went in there and fixed the obvious problem (which she pre-diagnosed even before the MRI-which was useless also). I'm really beating myself now if she could have missed anything else..

This is impossible.. How could a "fix" continue to cause problems and pain!?

Back to see my OS on 23 June (yes, quite a long way), I really wouldn't imagine what she would say about my condition by then. She would definitely expected a really good and speedy recovery by then- especially when she kept emphasizing mine was a reeeal minor issue.

I'm contemplating seeking a second opinion but mostly I feel really stupid now. Everyone in the office is asking me if i've recovered and I had to smile and say either, "yeah, guess so" OR "well no, its getting worse"-and receive weird looks with periods of silence.

It's 11.05pm right here across the pacific now, i hope i get a restful sleep before i battle my journey to work again in the morning.  :'(
Nov 09 - injury: twisted left knee
Jan 10  - first appointment with Ortho doc
Feb 10  - MRI showed normal, nothing conclusive
Mar 10  - started PT for a month
15 Apr 10 - Arthroscopy, medial meniscus trim (frayings)

Offline tez27

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Re: mri misses, meniscus, arthroscopy, pain.
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2010, 10:05:48 PM »
Hi Xhui
maybe it's time to get a second opinion, it sound to me like your o.s is brushing off your problems and that is not going to help you at all. I know how you feel when you decide to have surgery you think it will to fix all your knee problems but that is not always the case, at least for me after my scope the surgeon told me my acl was ruptured and even though just after surgery he informed me that I would be fine living without an acl, I feel my knee has been more painfull and unstable since so I now know I need the reconstruction, I really wish that I could have had it done at the time of my scan cos I needed time off work for the scope and now will need even more time off for the reconstuction.
When I was having a moan to my husband about why the o.s didn't just fix everything while he was doing the scope!! his answere to me was if a mechanic goes into fix your car engine he will fix the most obviouse problem and hope that will do the trick, same thing with knees, but you need to have a surgeon who will listen when you say something is not right and do something about it.
I really hope your pain improves and you find someone to help you  Take care Tez   
L K injured 25th June 2008
scope Jan 5th 10
diagnosis ACL rupture
fiberous band excised from acl
ACLr July 19th 2010  scope on 24th Sept 2011
ACL has failed incorrect tunnel placement
23rd July 2012 1st stage of a 2 stage ACL revision
10th May 2013 2nd stage ACL revision

Offline xhui

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Re: mri misses, meniscus, arthroscopy, pain.
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2010, 04:56:22 AM »
Thanks tez for your reply.. It sure gave me some food for thought there.

I'm just wondering if I really should give my doc another chance to review my problems (after 1mth surgery now).

Is it 'normal' to have swellings & redness, stiffness and pain for a 4weeks+ post op? I do not want to be be sounding the alarm too early.. I'm just baffled that my knee hurts more then before :( I've even asked myself if it should get worse before it gets better!? Or should it be something I've to live with?!

I'm still contemplating calling my clinic to move my appointment forward to see the doc. Just not sure if my doc will actually be able to offer anything else (esp she might not see too much swellings as it usually comes up after a day out at work. Though pain is consistent throughout the day)..

Anyone has any recovery period to share so I can guage where I should be also?
Nov 09 - injury: twisted left knee
Jan 10  - first appointment with Ortho doc
Feb 10  - MRI showed normal, nothing conclusive
Mar 10  - started PT for a month
15 Apr 10 - Arthroscopy, medial meniscus trim (frayings)

Offline Vickster

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Re: mri misses, meniscus, arthroscopy, pain.
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2010, 08:21:06 AM »
I had a scope 13 weeks ago (8 Feb) and still have pain and stiffness, some swelling around the portals but no redness (other than the incisions).  I too had a partial mensicectomy, shaving of patella cartilage (grade III defect) and washout.  My initial injury (~9 months ago) was the meniscus tear and an osteochondral lesion which had healed over with fibrocartilage plus extensive bone bruising. 

I am back on the bike and in the gym (cycling, stepping, XT, rower) - have been for a while now - the exercise being generally pain free but knee does get stiff afterwards (I am not very good at icing it  :-[ ).  It also gets stiff if I am sat for any length of time.  I get pain on walking, twisting, I cannot kneel an put any weight through the scoped side, nor can I sit back on that heel, and I get pain at each end of the ROM.  I saw the PT a couple of weeks ago to get his view and he did think that this level of discomfort is unusual after 3 months, but it wasn't a straightforward problem with the bone bruise (which can take a year to heal).  He suggested having a chat with the OS again if still troublesome in a few weeks (I am considering seeing him next week).

I would say most of the time my knee is sore and twingy rather than painful so not taking drugs for it (that said I didn't much after the injury either, nor once a few days had passed after the op).  I can put up with it but it is frustrating and demoralising.

4 weeks post scope, I was still using the crutches occasionally, so I don't think it is unusual to have some discomfort, especially around the incisions.  I would say continue to ice, don't overdo it - walking or gym etc and continue with PT exercises like leg raises and heel slides, plus anything else like wallslides if you can.  The OS said to me that it is key to get the leg muscles strong to support the knee.  Everyone's knees are different, but if you are concerned and struggling, do talk to the doctor or physio :)
Came off bike onto concrete 9/9/09
LK arthroscopy 8/2/10
2nd scope on 16/12/10
RK arthroscopy on 5/2/15
Lateral meniscus trim, excision of hoffa's fat pad, chondral stabilisation
LK scope 10.1.19 medial menisectomy, trochlea microfracture, general tidy up

Offline xhui

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Re: mri misses, meniscus, arthroscopy, pain.
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2010, 06:47:54 PM »
Thanks Vickster for sharing your recovery so I could estimate mine. Though it's just 5 weeks post op, I seemed to have developed some new "pain" recently.. It was quite disturbing actually, not sure where to proceed now also.

My level of activities had actually decreased as I'm currently on leave and away from work. But of late (these few days), I've started getting really bad burning and shooting pain on my numb patch on the left side of my Left knee. It was so bad yesterday night that I couldn't do any of my stretches nor leg raise exercises. My knee was so hyper sensitive, immense sharp burning pain with every movement i do, in the end, i had to lie in bed and attempt to sleep without doing any of my exercises!

Today, I've had my equal portion of knee pain while moving around too. It was quite bad with alot of knots behind my knee, especially on the left side (numb) area. I was sitting on a recliner when I suddenly felt real burning, sharp pain running down from the back of my knee down to my ankle! Was quite scary to see myself struggling to lift my ankle! My calf muscles area hurts too.. I was holding onto my leg waiting for the pain to subside.. I've a "knot" which I can feel behind the knee whenever I bend my it past 90degree or when i sit down (usually when weight bearing).

Now my question is, should i continue with my exercises and stretches? The pain is really bad especially after all those stressful positions on the knee. Anyway have anything to share in regards to nerve related issues? Though mine doesn't seem as bad as quite a few i've read here, i really appreciate all the sharing and encouragement from you kind folks here!

I've goton another appointment with a 2nd OS, but the appointment date is near the one with my current OS, so goto wait till end of June. I've read up a bit too on nerve entrapment and related issues, i'm not sure, but self-diagnosising really sounds wrong.. But now i'm more open to being referred to the pain management centre.. maybe they can help me better there also?

I can't imagine going back to work again..  :-\
Nov 09 - injury: twisted left knee
Jan 10  - first appointment with Ortho doc
Feb 10  - MRI showed normal, nothing conclusive
Mar 10  - started PT for a month
15 Apr 10 - Arthroscopy, medial meniscus trim (frayings)















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