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Author Topic: What Now???? So discouraged and disappointed.  (Read 9639 times)

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Offline MedicMom

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What Now???? So discouraged and disappointed.
« on: August 10, 2009, 06:57:24 PM »
Well, 6 months of waiting to see an OS only to be shot down and walk out in tears.

I am so disappointed and frustrated and extremely annoyed.   What kind of an orthopedic surgeon looks at you , comes right out and says there's nothing wrong with your knee, it's completely normal aside from a torn meniscus.  Yet you have provided him with MRI and xrays that clearly show several problems with the knee.   

He manipulated both my knee's to compare the 2 then sent me for xrays.  I took the xrays back to him, we looked at them togethor and he said that I didn't have OA, that I do have bone spurs, that my patellar groove , femoral condyle and patella are all NORMAL........However, the xrays clearly demonstrated a drastic difference IMO between my right knee and my left knee....right knee being the one causing me grief.  My patella on the R knee was significantly higher and positioned more lateral then my L knee, I would estimate a good 1" difference.  But according to him that is completely normal.  Looks like patella alta to me.  But whom am I , not a doctor that's for sure.  All the crunching, grinding, cracking and popping is all completely normal to.

When I asked him about the flat groove and deficiant femoral condyle, he said that those issues didn't exist within my knee.....that my MRI was over read  in other words  the radioligst who  read it apparently ready WAY to much into it and I don't have patella alta, or a flattened shortened groove or a deficiant femoral condyle or OA..........[small edit by KNEEguru]

He said there is a high likelihood that the medial meniscus is torn, yet that is the one thing the MRI did not confirm....it just stated that there was increased signal etc......so apparently 3 radioligists, my GP and MRI don't know what they are talking about .....

He told me to return to my normal activities, go the gym, work on strengthening my quad as that will help position my patella to better glide in the groove instead of where it does.   No mention or recommendation for physio, no activity restrictions,  NOTHING!!!!

He did say that if I wanted him to do a scope to look at the meniscus he would, but he advised against it right now, told me to wait 2-3 months and if my knee was still bothering me to call him back and make another appt.

I think I will be seeking a second opinion.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 09:48:57 PM by The KNEEguru »
March 09 Bilateral Early compatmental OA
March 09 Medial/Lateral Meniscal Tear of RT knee with patellofemoral chondromalacia and ligament strain.
April 09  Patella Alta RK, deficiant femoral condyle RK, laterally flattened and foreshortened patellar groove RK
Feb 3rd 2010 TTT, menisectomy

Offline ex-gymnast

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Re: What Now???? So discouraged and disappointed.
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2009, 07:02:30 PM »
I would look for a new OS.  I personally went through 2 that I faught with before finding the one I am now with.  I will see him today for problems with my "good knee".  Changing doctors can at times be the only way to get an answer.
If I knew I'd be like this now, I'd do it all again.
1998- Lf ACL replace (failed)
1998- Lf ACL replace (worked)
1998- Rt LR
1999- Rt Scope
2000- Rt ACL replace
2001- Rt hardware replace
2002- Rt Scar Tissue Removal
2005- Rt Pattella Scraped
2009- Rt clean-out the mess
To Come: 2 Replace

Offline friendsfan

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Re: What Now???? So discouraged and disappointed.
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2009, 07:58:56 PM »
I agree with ex-gymnast....go for a second opinion...im on my 2nd opinion, totally worth it, he has done 3 surgeries on me already and im having my 4th in 2 weeks time...dont get me wrong it took ALOT of convincing to get him to do something, tears, telling him to cut my legs off but eventually he took notice of me.
I can totally relate to how you are feeling, just hope you can get some answers soon

Faye   
5-3-07 injured knee-no ROM
2-5-07 LK scope + MUA
26-6-08-LK TTT and scope
10-12-08-LK MUA
12-6-09-RK scope
26-8-09 RK TTT

Offline The KNEEguru

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Re: What Now???? So discouraged and disappointed.
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2009, 09:55:44 PM »
Let's look at the bright side - at least you have not yet had surgery that may have complicated any evaluation of what is going on in the knee.

So what now?

Well, it is true that symptoms that appear to originate from poor patella mechanics may respond well to a conservative regime, which may include attention to feet, hips and spine as well as the knee and its musculature. But what you are clearly after is a valid assessment of the status quo in your knee, and an evaluation of the imaging studies in relation to the symptoms you are having.

The patellofemoral joint is a specialist area, and you may need to seek an opinion from someone who takes a special interest in this area of the knee.
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KNEEguru

Offline Jessyca

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Re: What Now???? So discouraged and disappointed.
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2009, 10:52:39 PM »
I have walked out of my share of OS offices in tears.  OS 1 made things worse through surgery, OS 2 and 3 both said there was nothing they could do.  Finally on OS 4 who has committed to figuring out what is going on rather than just taking a wild guess.

So, get a second opinion and try to keep your hopes up :)
February 9, 2006 Fell skiing, knee twisted.
July 12, 2006 Arthroscopic surgery
October 23, 2006 Possible reinjury
January 10, 2007 Arthroscopic surgery
August 13, 2009 Bracing my knee until surgery in January
January 29, 2010 Arthroscopic surgery - LR/debridement

Offline Mike1968

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Re: What Now???? So discouraged and disappointed.
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2009, 12:26:51 AM »
MedicMom,

KEEP YOUR SPIRITS UP!

If you are able I would suggest, as others have, to get another opinion.  I went through 3 OS's and finally found the best on the third try.  Find a doc that you are COMFORTABLE with and one that will take the time to address your concerns and questions.  I take a notebook with me to my appts and my third OS knows that its Q/A time!  It is nice because he answers all of my questions and I write down the responses so that I can refer back to them.  If an OS is not willing to address your concerns (found that with OS2) then in my opinion it's time for another doc.

Best of luck to you!

Regards,

Mike :)
83-Osgood Schlatters in both knees
90-left knee ACL repair
03-left knee ACL revision (hamstring graft)
04-left knee ACL revision (cadaver graft)
06-left knee arthroscopy
06-left knee ACI and High Tibial Osteotomy
30 June 2009 - Left Knee Total Knee Replacement

Offline Silkncardcrafts

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Re: What Now???? So discouraged and disappointed.
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2009, 12:58:38 AM »
Hi MedicMom,

Sorry to hear about your appointment. He is clearly not a patellofemoral specialist. You need to definitely seek another opinion.

What kind of doctor leaves you like that ? At least he could have suggested physiotherapy as a start.

Please don't give up. You just need to find the right one to treat you.

What part of Canada are you in ?
11/1996 - RK LR
07/1997 - LK LR
11/1998 - LK MPFL Reco
12/2005 - RK LR Repair
07/2006 - LK MPFL Repair
11/2006 - LK LR Repair
22/05/08 - LK Trochleoplasty
11/02/10 - RK Trochleoplasty
07/03/11 - RK Chrondroplasty

Offline lizzivia

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Re: What Now???? So discouraged and disappointed.
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2009, 02:11:48 PM »
i am sorry for your bad experience, medic mom. but i will say to you, dont give up! i have had my share of bad experiences with 3 OS so far, but i am still hopefull. I know not all physicians are the same so i am confident if we keep at it, we will find the right  qualified one. one who is compassionate and  understanding. one who will not dissmiss our fears and concerns, but  based on our pains and discomforts,  will take thier time while doing thorough evaluations and make thoughtful decisions as to further treatment. keep the faith and know that others out here have shared and are sharing your plight. GET OTHER OPINIONS! as many as it takes until you get relief!                                 

Offline MR

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Re: What Now???? So discouraged and disappointed.
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2009, 02:33:49 PM »
MEDICMOM

i hear you....i'm also in ontario.....in 2002 i went to OS cause knee was really bothering me....he flipped knees this way and that way...and said i have the healthiest knees he ever saw and was gonna prove it to me by sending me for a bone scan....he told me right to my face that i was crazy.....went for the bone scan went back for the results 2 weeks later , he closed the door and said i owe you an apology your not crazy after all you are in fact having problems with your knees ankles and mid feet on both side...but wouldn't explain what was wrong....he said your not a canadiate for surgery at this time...and now since i fell 2 years ago..the ER department figures i torn a menicus and put me in a brace to wear til i see a new OS...that was 2 years ago still waiting for the OS to call....lol...last week i asked my family doc to send me to a new OS that just opened a  clinic and is fresh right out of Queens University....she refuses to send me.....i have no use for doctors any more...totally...i just spended  19 months of being misdiagnosed with my ear...they kept treating me for ear infection, then ENT said i had arthritis of the ear ...oh you name it....then finally i found a ENT that sended me for the proper tests to confirm i have meniere's diesease...19 months i suffered with these docs...now the same thing is happening with my knee.....

Offline MedicMom

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Re: What Now???? So discouraged and disappointed.
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2009, 12:11:53 AM »
Thanks for all your replies.  I have looked on the internet for a knee specialist and found 1 in Toronto.  I called their office and asked how to get an appt.  As I thought I need a referral.  So I called my GP's office and asked them for a referral and requested they send all xray and MRI reports with the referral so this doc can review them ahead of time.

If I get an appt they said it would be within 2 - 3 wks.....fingers crossed!!!


His name is Dr Frank Tran at the Athletic and sports wellness center in Toronto.  Is anyone familiar with this doc??


Here is a little info about him.....if any of you have had the experience of using his services can you please let me know how it was.

Dr. Frank Tran   MD, CM, FRCS(C) 
 
Orthopedic Surgery & Sports Medicine
Surgery of the Knee / Ligament Reconstruction
Dr. Frank Tran completed a Subspecialty Fellowship in Arthroscopic Reconstructive Surgery at the University of Ottawa and Carleton Sports Medicine Clinic. He received his Orthopedic Surgery training at the University of Ottawa and earned his MD at McGill University. During his fellowship, Dr. Tran completed numerous research projects based on ACL reconstruction. He studied the effects of electrothermal shrinkage in the treatment of partial ACL injuries. He also compared different forms of fixation in ACL reconstruction using Hamstrings grafts and helped develop a bioabsorbable screw for Hamstrings fixation. His research earned him numerous awards including a gold medal at a prestigious national meeting for Sports Medicine Fellows and Residents. Dr. Tran has previously worked with the Ottawa Renegades, Ottawa Lynx and Senators. He has worked with the Toronto Argonauts of the CFL as a consultant. He currently is a consultant with the National and Ontario Soccer association as well as the Toronto Lynx Soccer Club.

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March 09 Bilateral Early compatmental OA
March 09 Medial/Lateral Meniscal Tear of RT knee with patellofemoral chondromalacia and ligament strain.
April 09  Patella Alta RK, deficiant femoral condyle RK, laterally flattened and foreshortened patellar groove RK
Feb 3rd 2010 TTT, menisectomy

Offline obie

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Re: What Now???? So discouraged and disappointed.
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2009, 05:58:14 AM »



I wish you the best of luck medicmom.  I'll say a little prayer for you.  I live way south of you in Central Texas and know that there are many people who care.  God Bless and Good Luck!  I'll keep checking for your posts...... : )

Thanks for all your replies.  I have looked on the internet for a knee specialist and found 1 in Toronto.  I called their office and asked how to get an appt.  As I thought I need a referral.  So I called my GP's office and asked them for a referral and requested they send all xray and MRI reports with the referral so this doc can review them ahead of time.

If I get an appt they said it would be within 2 - 3 wks.....fingers crossed!!!


His name is Dr Frank Tran at the Athletic and sports wellness center in Toronto.  Is anyone familiar with this doc??


Here is a little info about him.....if any of you have had the experience of using his services can you please let me know how it was.

Dr. Frank Tran   MD, CM, FRCS(C) 
 
Orthopedic Surgery & Sports Medicine
Surgery of the Knee / Ligament Reconstruction
Dr. Frank Tran completed a Subspecialty Fellowship in Arthroscopic Reconstructive Surgery at the University of Ottawa and Carleton Sports Medicine Clinic. He received his Orthopedic Surgery training at the University of Ottawa and earned his MD at McGill University. During his fellowship, Dr. Tran completed numerous research projects based on ACL reconstruction. He studied the effects of electrothermal shrinkage in the treatment of partial ACL injuries. He also compared different forms of fixation in ACL reconstruction using Hamstrings grafts and helped develop a bioabsorbable screw for Hamstrings fixation. His research earned him numerous awards including a gold medal at a prestigious national meeting for Sports Medicine Fellows and Residents. Dr. Tran has previously worked with the Ottawa Renegades, Ottawa Lynx and Senators. He has worked with the Toronto Argonauts of the CFL as a consultant. He currently is a consultant with the National and Ontario Soccer association as well as the Toronto Lynx Soccer Club.

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Offline eaglemom

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Re: What Now???? So discouraged and disappointed.
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2009, 02:56:54 PM »
I can so relate to this.  Who are they to tell you your knee if find?  If it were fine would you be sitting in his office!  I've walked out just like you did.  Or they toss pill, patches or pt, of all of them to "fix" the problem.  Start looking around and you'll find someone you can relate to.  Good luck.  eagle

Offline MedicMom

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Re: What Now???? So discouraged and disappointed.
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2009, 03:50:58 PM »
Exactly....they give us a pill and send us on our way.   I think it's because they don't always know what to do with us, so rather then admit they can't help us, they tell us there is nothing wrong with us and dismiss us.

I spoke with an OS in Houston TX on the phone last night.  What an amazing man he is.  Truely caring person.   I provided him with a copy of my MRI and he said that without a doubt I need to have a complete assessment including CT and digital imaging and a few other things....he also said patella alta would be very hard to misdiagnose as it is a matter of measuring.....so he wants me to either see him or call another surgeon that he gave me the name of in Detroit.  He said we need to determine the degree of patella alta and the degree of rotation etc and that he could do my physical assessment, send me for CT and other imageing, have all the results back , consult with me again for results and a treatment plan all within 24hrs....OMG.........24hrs....unbelievable.

If it wasn't going to cost me so much I'd be on a plane to see him already.  Unfortunately it will cost me approx $2000 US not including any treatment/procedure.

But so nice to know that there are actually doc's out there that really do care about people and want to help.    He even gave me his c phone # and told me to call him if I have anymore concerns.

March 09 Bilateral Early compatmental OA
March 09 Medial/Lateral Meniscal Tear of RT knee with patellofemoral chondromalacia and ligament strain.
April 09  Patella Alta RK, deficiant femoral condyle RK, laterally flattened and foreshortened patellar groove RK
Feb 3rd 2010 TTT, menisectomy

Offline Silkncardcrafts

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Re: What Now???? So discouraged and disappointed.
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2009, 06:48:43 AM »
Hi there,

The surgeon you spoke to sounds like he knows what he is talking about.

It is really important to find a surgeon that specialises in patella problems.

There is a great sports physician in Vancouver called Karim Khan. He works at the University of British Columbia. I would definitely give him a call. He should be able to point you in the right direction.
11/1996 - RK LR
07/1997 - LK LR
11/1998 - LK MPFL Reco
12/2005 - RK LR Repair
07/2006 - LK MPFL Repair
11/2006 - LK LR Repair
22/05/08 - LK Trochleoplasty
11/02/10 - RK Trochleoplasty
07/03/11 - RK Chrondroplasty

Offline fraud_ninja

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Re: What Now???? So discouraged and disappointed.
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2009, 03:16:27 PM »
Medicmom,

Do not get discouraged.  Unfortunately so many OS's will tell you there is nothing wrong when the truth is they are not a big enough person to admit that they do not know what is wrong.  Just keep searching for an OS...as you can see there are many out there that actually care. 

As far as the recommendation of a surgeon in Detroit...was that OS Dr Teitge by any chance.  If it was, I just want to encourage you that if you end up deciding to consult with someone in the US, Dr Teitge would be worth any and all expenses.  Dr Teitge is simply amazing and has fixed my knees...and I had many of the same problems it appears that you have.

Keep your spirits up, do not let one less than informed OS get you down or make you think that you are imagining things.

Brianne
12/26/02 LR R
10/26/06 TTT R
1/25/07 TTT L
12/17/07 TTT revision, MPFL recon R
2/7/08 TTT revision, MPFL recon L
3/24/08 screw removal R
4/30/08 screw removal L

Knees are fixed, training for a triathalon.

9/21/09- Right ankle reconstruction