Banner - Hide this banner





Author Topic: Ever heard of "No PT"?  (Read 2435 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline nariswan

  • Regular Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Liked: 0
Ever heard of "No PT"?
« on: March 26, 2009, 07:37:48 PM »
Ok, I am posting here, because I have been reading threads for hours and can't seem to see this question anywhere... Maybe someone out there has heard of this?

I had a scope done yesterday on right knee, my surgeon went in thinking there may be a blockage (im like 5/75) and I have been doing pt for 4 weeks with no improvement. He went in, found no blockage, and verified there is a torn ACL, only (previously was told patellar tendon, meniscus, and MCL, too).

So now - he doesn't want to see me again for 5 weeks, prescribed no PT, and told me i can drive. I can't even WALK above .5 mph! The knee is cocked and screaming with either sharp intense pain, or burning lingering pain.

Has anyone ever heard of NO PT?

I have been miserable with my care with this HMO since this ordeal began, it's like I am putting everyone out with my questions and problems. It takes weeks to get an appointment, and then I get 2 minutes with the doctor who acts the whole time like there are 40 things of higher importance on his/her list.

So, what do I do - just get addicted to pain meds while I wait for my appointment in 5 weeks? I think it is time for another opinion - right?

any ideas?
1985 - patellar realignment (L)
2009 - torn ACL (R)

teachmath912

  • Guest
Re: Ever heard of "No PT"?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2009, 09:15:50 PM »
I've never had any sort of PT with my scopes, LR, or meniscus repair surgeries- and I just had my third surgery.  After I ripped my MCL, I didn't go to pt either- I had a walking brace for about 8 weeks and I just did the exercises at home.
I think it is all the doctor's preference- some think you need to see one and some think you can do the exercises at home I guess.
Now for my questions:  Is the ACL completely torn?  If so, why wasn't it repaired or why weren't you put into a brace?  What else did he say about your knee? Is there inflammation or anything else?
Did he tell you his reasoning for not prescribing pt?  Is it not covered by insurance or does he not think it is important or?
Can you do heel slides? tighten your quads? lift your leg without assistance?
good luck- sorry to hear you are in so much pain!
~ Kit

Offline maryc

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1412
  • Liked: 18
Re: Ever heard of "No PT"?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2009, 09:18:42 PM »
Sometimes you've got to be the squeeky wheel.  Call and ask why you weren't prescribed PT.  You may have to get stubborn about it and insist.  Some doctors don't think PT is helpful (they should try to recover without it, I'll bet they change their minds).  Some doctors don't think beyond their part in the process.  It  sounds like you'll have to be your own advocate.  
Good luck
8/4/07 fell
8/5 diagnosed TPF
8/6 surgery plate and 6 screws
8/12 out of hospital NWM
8/21 staples removed
9/18 OS appt - WBAT with crutches
10/10 - WBAT with cane
10/27 - back to work w/cane
12/26 - no cane, slight limp when tired
1/25/08 - released from PT, no limp
2/3/09 - Released by OS

Offline luckygrandma6

  • Forum Faithful
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
  • Liked: 0
Re: Ever heard of "No PT"?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2009, 12:53:47 PM »
I think PT is over rated. Anything you can do on your own is better. You went to PT for a few weeks so dicipline yourself and do the exercises on your own while you are waiting for the appointment. Try everything you can to keep the pain under control. Ice is  a great friend.

This is my experience with 5 operations on same knee:

1. arthroscopy. Went to PT and it got worse.

2, Partial Knee Replacement (went to PT and continued to have this sharp pain down the back of my leg, PT kept saying to me "that is good pain" released from PT with Full ROM but still in pain down back of leg.

3 Total Knee Replacement, went to PT for three months and got up to 100 degrees ROM, had a bad day the day before my doctors appointment and dropped back to 85 degrees, instead of continuing my PT the doctor decided to do an MUA. Sent me to PT for the next few days and I had an aggresive male therpist who was so rough he broke my prosthesis and my knee  over extended after that.

4. Had a Spacer exchange as the doctor thought this might correct the over-extention. NOT. Just kept getting worse.

5. Ended up having two back surgeries in between as that was the cause for all the pain down the back of my leg, but still had the overextention

6. Finally went to a specialist who did another TK Revision and put in a hinged prosthesis to stop the over-extention. This corrected that problem and I was sent to a rehab facility for three weeks because I had so many surgeries my doctor felt it would give me a better start with my rehabilitation.

I was discharged from the rehab facility and set up with in-house therapy. I wanted to do this on my own as I really beleived I had been through this so many times that I could do it in my sleep.

Only after three in home visits the therpist started doing exercises with me that put too much stress on the joint, and now I have tendonitis and am going to outpatient therapy for this. This therapist undid everything I had accomplished in rehab therapy. Before you say anything I want you to know that the doctor said the therapist did this if you think I should not be blamming the therapist.

My many surgeries were do to incompidante therapist who had no idea what to do or were dealing with and didn't understand that my knee is not a normal knee so you can't expect what you would from a normal one.. Now three years later I have been through 3 different orthopedia doctors, a back doctor and 7 different therapy groups. The big picture here is that therapist have made things worse. I spent three years trying to tell them I can't do certain excercises do to my back, a hip replacement and all the knee surgeries and, it's like they have one program in mind for all and can't change the program.

I wanted to come out of rehab therapy and do my own exercises and because they really felt I should have some kind of therapy I'm in worse shape then I was right after the operation.

Believe me therapist are not your answer to success, you are. If you were in therapy for a few weeks you should have some idea what kind of exercises to do. You will probably even get better with time and naturally. Not all doctors believe in therapy. I have had several doctors tell me that there is a guide line for therapy and too many therapist do over kill and make matters worse. Because of the tendonitis my doctors stopped the in house therapy and I'm going to outpatient, but only becasue they have tools to treat the tendonitis, like ultra-sound. Just see what you can do for a few weeks and when you go back to the doctors you will have something to talk to him abiout, like I've continued to excercise and it is no better or it may be a lot better in 5 week.s I'll be my money on the later.

It's the bodies natural instinct to mend, but it only mends so fast and no matter how we try to rush it, when things hurt it is the bodies way of telling us to stop whatever we are doing and give it a rest.

ICE!!ICE!! ICE!! for pain.








« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 11:05:22 PM by luckygrandma6 »
Right knee (arthroscopy) 2004
Right knee (PKR)) April 5, 2005
Right elbow (Bursectomy)1998
TRKR 2006 Failed)
Left knee (arthroscopy)
Left knee (arthroscopy)
THR 1992
2 back surgeries (Feb 2007 & March 2007
Right knee spacer exchange (Failed) 2008
TRK (Hinged Prosthesis) Jan 2009

Offline nariswan

  • Regular Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Liked: 0
Re: Ever heard of "No PT"?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2009, 08:06:01 PM »
Wow! great info thanks.

This is the exact instruction from an email from his doctor's assistant.

"He doesn't want you doing PT until he sees you again."

I am emailing him back to ask what that means and why.

Every day that I dont move it stiffens worse.
1985 - patellar realignment (L)
2009 - torn ACL (R)

Offline adlottis

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • Posts: 569
  • Liked: 0
Re: Ever heard of "No PT"?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2009, 08:15:04 PM »
LuckyGrandma,

I'm so sorry for you terrible experience at PT.

 I had such the opposite experience.  I was in PT for 6 months, after my ttt/LR/Medial reefing and chondroplasty.  My knee was so messed up and had been for many years, I found PT to be my lifeline, not only were there exercises but they did alot of modalities, they stretched my knee to get back my ROM and they were a huge support to me.  I don't believe I would be where i am today physically with my knee if It weren't for PT.  I will say not all PT's are the same, you have to find one that understands your set of circumstances and someone you can relate to.  Fortuantely I found both.  He took a great interest in me and my case and kept close tabs on my progression.

My OS automatically sends most all of his patients to PT after surgery.  He told me he'd send me after he took my screws out.  Mostly to help decrease inflammation which is something I fight terribly.

Well have a good day
Annette

1976 first dislocation 10 years old
1980 14 yrs old LR, MR, remove chip bone
1980-2005 numerous dislocations
March 2007 Proximal/distal realignment, chondroplasty
July 2007 MUA
July 2008  synvisc
Sept 2008 patellar tendon tendonitis
June 2009 hardware removal, LR, debriedment

Offline cboden51

  • Forum Faithful
  • ****
  • Posts: 305
  • Liked: 0
Re: Ever heard of "No PT"?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2009, 10:28:27 PM »
My goodness - I don't know what to say to all the bad experiences with PT. I have had 2 PKR and had PT after each in addition to several other knee surgeries and have had great outcomes. My OS always sends his patients to PT. I found that they helped guide me in my exercise program and activity level. Of course I had to do the work at home also.

I think you are right to seek clarification as to what the docs thinking is.

Connie

Offline luckygrandma6

  • Forum Faithful
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
  • Liked: 0
Re: Ever heard of "No PT"?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2009, 02:59:32 AM »
This is all well and good if you have had only one or two operations with no complications. What I was saying my circumstances were not normal and some of the therapist I went to did me more harm then good. One therapy would help me another would hurt me. It wasn't just therapist I had trouble with it was also doctors who wouldn't listen and did unnecessary operations because they wouldn't listen to me. I now have a wonderful Orthopedic doctor that I wish I had been referred to from the beginning and things would have turned out differently. The Specialist Group I go to now has everything, Pain Management, Spine Surgeon and Orhtopedic. They are specialist and if I had gone to them instead of a doctor here and a doctor there for the different problems, they would have looked at the whole picture and not just what they know. About 4 out of 7 surgeries I had in three years were not necessary. I had therapist and doctors that no idea what they were doing.
Right knee (arthroscopy) 2004
Right knee (PKR)) April 5, 2005
Right elbow (Bursectomy)1998
TRKR 2006 Failed)
Left knee (arthroscopy)
Left knee (arthroscopy)
THR 1992
2 back surgeries (Feb 2007 & March 2007
Right knee spacer exchange (Failed) 2008
TRK (Hinged Prosthesis) Jan 2009

Offline subail

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 8072
  • Liked: 3
  • The glass is always half full!
Re: Ever heard of "No PT"?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2009, 10:05:19 AM »
I don't know what I would have done without my physiotherapist. It was she who believed that there was something terribly wrong with my knee when no one else would. In the final analysis, she actually diagnosed the problem...it was just a question of getting an OS to look at it properly.

PT is what you make it. If you go and find out what the proper technique is and continue to do your homework, then I believe that rehabbing can be quite effective. I've not met an OS who has not recommended rehab. A second opinion may be in order.
Dislocation of left patella and as a result left patellar tendon rupture in the medial section/torn at both ends.
3 Previous surgeries-semitendiosis tenodesis
Reconstruction surgery left knee October 10 '07
TKR right knee May 25 '10.....successful!
Limited ROM/TKR left knee May 25 2015...successful.

Offline luckygrandma6

  • Forum Faithful
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
  • Liked: 0
Re: Ever heard of "No PT"?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2009, 11:03:18 PM »
First of all a Physical Therapist has no right diagnosing anything and I worked hard in PT and did everything I was told, that was the problem I trusted them even when I didn't think it felt right. I've had some good therapist and I have an excellent one now, but my life will never be the same because of that over aggressive man therapist I had. When my doctor sent me to him after my MUA this is what he said as he jerked and pulled on my leg"there is no way you can hurt this knee, everything has been removed" then I heard something pop and he dislocated my whole knee and broke the prosthesis. That man is no longer with the group but it doesn't help me much and becasue of him I had to have two more operations and I struggled for three years before I went to a Specialist who diaginoseds it right and even though he put in a hinged prosthesis and corrected the overextension and dislocation of the kneecap, it will be a long time due to so many knee surgeries that I'l be able to walk anywhere's near normal, whatever that is.,especially since now I have developed tendonitis that another therpist caused by having me do the wrong exercises for my problem.
I was just trying to make a point that everyone is PT happy and PT is not always the answer. I didn't even go to PT for my THR and I did fine. I could go on and on with problems therapy has caused but I think I made my point. If a doctor doesn't tell you to go to therapy he probably has a good reason. When I got the tendonitis my doctor told me to take a break from therapy as it was making it worse by what the therapist was doing. Yes! there are good therapist, but how do you know that until you go to them, that's why I have been to so many. I wasn't going back to the ones who screwed me up.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 11:08:59 PM by luckygrandma6 »
Right knee (arthroscopy) 2004
Right knee (PKR)) April 5, 2005
Right elbow (Bursectomy)1998
TRKR 2006 Failed)
Left knee (arthroscopy)
Left knee (arthroscopy)
THR 1992
2 back surgeries (Feb 2007 & March 2007
Right knee spacer exchange (Failed) 2008
TRK (Hinged Prosthesis) Jan 2009

Offline adlottis

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • Posts: 569
  • Liked: 0
Re: Ever heard of "No PT"?
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2009, 12:37:08 AM »
LuckyGrandma,

Sorry for all of your frustating times with PT and OS's that didn't make things better.  Ii'm glad you are now under the care of some good doctors.  You are right we do need to stand up for ourselves and say no when things aren't going right.  It's a hard thing to do, but nobody is going to advocate for us if we don't do it. 

By the way do you still have tendonitis?  the reason i ask is I was diagnosed with it last fall, all though the radiating pain is gone I still feel like I have a lump (presseure)below my kneecap.  do you have that feeling.  I'm going back to see my OS because whatever is there has been there for 2 years and I feel it every stepp I take.

Annette
1976 first dislocation 10 years old
1980 14 yrs old LR, MR, remove chip bone
1980-2005 numerous dislocations
March 2007 Proximal/distal realignment, chondroplasty
July 2007 MUA
July 2008  synvisc
Sept 2008 patellar tendon tendonitis
June 2009 hardware removal, LR, debriedment

Offline luckygrandma6

  • Forum Faithful
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
  • Liked: 0
Re: Ever heard of "No PT"?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2009, 01:08:45 PM »
Hi Anette, Yes I still do have the tendonitis and have bee struggling with it for a month. I can get up in the morning feeling pretty good and the minute I start to ambulate the pain is uinbearable to walk on.
You mentioned that your tendonitis is below the kneecap. Mine is right above the kneecap where I bend and it just burns with pressure on it. It also looks like a lump of something is there and my joint will stiffen and lock becasue it is too painful to bend. I go back to the OS April 17th and if I stil have it then I'll ask what they suggest. I'm doing everything recommended, the therapist is massaging, icing, using ultra-sound and excercising. I was told it takes a long time to get over it, but I sure would like to see a little improvement. How long did it take the pain to go away.
I know some tendonitis has to be operated on to repair and I'm praying this is not the case as I couldn't go through another surgery. I've already had 5 too many operstions on that knee.
Right knee (arthroscopy) 2004
Right knee (PKR)) April 5, 2005
Right elbow (Bursectomy)1998
TRKR 2006 Failed)
Left knee (arthroscopy)
Left knee (arthroscopy)
THR 1992
2 back surgeries (Feb 2007 & March 2007
Right knee spacer exchange (Failed) 2008
TRK (Hinged Prosthesis) Jan 2009

Offline adlottis

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • Posts: 569
  • Liked: 0
Re: Ever heard of "No PT"?
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2009, 08:13:39 PM »
My pain from the tendonitis is mostly gone, I did 4 weeks of Pt which included laser, ultrasound, ionpontesis (sp?) ems and icing.  I have made some modifications in my workout schedule.  I still get that pain on occasion, but what I'm dealing with now is this constant pressure that has been there since my surgery 2 years ago.  I see the OS on April 16th. I'm not sure if what I'm feeling is the tendonitis or if i have a differnt problem.  It's very frustrating though.

Annette
1976 first dislocation 10 years old
1980 14 yrs old LR, MR, remove chip bone
1980-2005 numerous dislocations
March 2007 Proximal/distal realignment, chondroplasty
July 2007 MUA
July 2008  synvisc
Sept 2008 patellar tendon tendonitis
June 2009 hardware removal, LR, debriedment

Offline Peg Leg

  • Forum Faithful
  • ****
  • Posts: 495
  • Liked: 0
Re: Ever heard of "No PT"?
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2009, 03:20:02 AM »
It's true that some Doctors think what they do surgery wise is all you need. I on the other hand could not have gotten through everything I've been through without the support and encouragement I've gotten from my PT.  I work very hard at my exercises on my own, but he makes sure I'm doing them correctly and he is a sounding board when I need to talk about my frustrations. Having had 5 surgeries in an 18 month period, there have been MANY frustrations!  I truly think without his support and knowledge, I would have completely lost my mind by now. 

Peg Leg
10/06  Miicrofracture Rt knee on mfc
defect was 1.3x2, small defect under patella
04/07 Arthroscopy/Cell harvest for Carticel
06/28/07 Carticel surgery ,Rt. Knee
12/27/07  Scope to debride Patella lesion,Rt. Knee
4/17/08  Fulkerson AMZ, Rt. Knee
6/25/09 ConforMis BiCompartmental Knee Replacement

Offline Silkncardcrafts

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • Posts: 3916
  • Liked: 6
Re: Ever heard of "No PT"?
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2009, 11:26:43 AM »
Hi there,

It sounds crazy that your OS has not suggested PT for 5 weeks until you see him. Doing PT in the early stages is really important. The signs you are suggesting sounds like that doing no PT is making matters worse.

Am also very surprised that he hasn't done an ACL reco if your ACL was torn. What is the plan for that ?

When are you seeing your OS next ?
11/1996 - RK LR
07/1997 - LK LR
11/1998 - LK MPFL Reco
12/2005 - RK LR Repair
07/2006 - LK MPFL Repair
11/2006 - LK LR Repair
22/05/08 - LK Trochleoplasty
11/02/10 - RK Trochleoplasty
07/03/11 - RK Chrondroplasty