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Author Topic: Core Training (Could this be real)  (Read 2056 times)

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Offline Athlete Mom

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Core Training (Could this be real)
« on: December 23, 2007, 12:22:17 AM »
My son had a pretty bad injury 18 months ago due to a dislocated knee cap causing damage to articular cartilage on the lateral fem condyle.  He had surgery (using OBI plugs) and everything was great until he started playing football -- at that point he had what they called a subluxation of the knee cap (October).  Since that point he's been in PT with a trainer and looks and feels great. 

Well  . . we went to see this athletic traininer that I heard works with all these olympic type athletes.  His title says "Perucussion/compression/hyperbaric" on it.  He told us to "throw the braces out" that my son's surgeon is a complete "jack . .. " and that his problem stems from the way he walks and places pressure.  He gave him some simple exercises to do at home (frog kicks, leg down, isometrics) and said if he increased his abdominal and inner thigh strength he'd never suffer from knee pain again.  (he doesn't have any pain now).

At this point, I'm not sure what to believe.  I originally went to him to find out what he thought of my son playing the catchers position in baseball.  He said "no problem" if he does these exercises. 

Anybody heard of this?

Offline jathib

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Re: Core Training (Could this be real)
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2007, 02:02:48 PM »
I'd run from that guy as quickly as possible. While there may be truth in some of the things he says, completely discounting what your son's doctor tells him to do and listening to someone that is not a doctor is a very bad idea. If you need another opinion see another orthopedic surgeon. Trainers are not doctors, they're not even physical therapists.

Offline GemmaLeigh

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Re: Core Training (Could this be real)
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2007, 04:46:15 PM »
This guy sounds like a complete cowboy. As jathib says, he doesn't have any surgical or even medical qualifications if he is a trainer.

If you are really looking for a second opinion you can always seek the advice of another consultant or specialist.

I have seen plenty of doctors before finding suitable answers and i'm glad i looked around but it's better to see a professional than someone who isn't trained in that area.

Another thing to think about is that these trainers are used to getting athletes back on the track asap but most athletes who have had past injuries get repeat problems or worse problems later in life!!
1995 - first trip to the doctor with 'growing pains'
1998 - xrays show left patella is out of place
1999 - first dislocation
1999-2006 - Physio therapy every week
Jan2007 - Traumatic dislocation
feb 2007 - OS suggests surgery
Jan 2008 - date for surgery 30th jan

Offline ATsoccergirl

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Re: Core Training (Could this be real)
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2007, 06:47:38 PM »
Certified Athletic trainers are medical professionals as recognized by the American Medical association.   All ATCs have at least a bachelor's degree and completed either a professional education program or if they graduated before 2002 an internship type program.  Athletic training is one of the most selective and hardest professional programs offered by many colleges.   Besides working generally over 40 hours a week in clinical training, athletic training students also attend classes and participate in off campus rotations with other medical professionals.  Athletic training students take a wide variety of classes in first-aid, human a/p, chemistry, physics, biology, injury care and prevention, therapeutic modalites and exercise, health care administration and pharmocology.  Insurance companies are also beginning to recognize athletic trainers and many insurance companies now allow athletic trainers to bill for their services.  In order to become an athletic trainer, a student must pass the NATABOC exam, which has a very low first time pass rate and meet all state requirements for licensure.

Athletic trainers are specially trained in the care and prevention of athletic injuries.  Although we are not physical therapists we are considered to be the professional of choice in rehabbing sports injuries.  There has been studies showing that athletic trainers also have better clinical outcomes than physical therapists.  Athletic trainers work in a wide variety of settings including many not so traditional sites including industrial settings and as physicial extenders, some do even go into surgery with an orthopedic surgeon. 

If you have doubts about someone calling themselves an athletic trainer, please address these concerns with your local government licensing board or the NATABOC (BOCATC.org) they will be able to tell you if the person you are seeing is indeed a certified athletic trainer.  In the majority of states athletic trainers have both name and practice protection, so it is illegal for someone to call themselves an athletic trainer unless they are nationally certified. 

Please don't bash my profession based on what someone wrote on this forum.  Attitudes such as the following are the reason athletic trainers are continued to be discriminated against by Medicare and members of congress.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2007, 10:25:56 PM by ATsoccergirl »
1999 LR, 2002 ACL/PLC recon, reversal of LR, 2004 ACL revision, 2006 Car accident torn PCL and small fractures resulting in bone chips in my knee.  Torn MCL 3 times.  Wicked screws under IT band and Pes Anserine.  June 2008-Hip Arthroscopy.

Offline ATsoccergirl

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Re: Core Training (Could this be real)
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2007, 06:49:10 PM »
In response to your question, there is some basis to the fact that increased core strength and quad strength does help prevent knee injuries and can improve current problems. 
1999 LR, 2002 ACL/PLC recon, reversal of LR, 2004 ACL revision, 2006 Car accident torn PCL and small fractures resulting in bone chips in my knee.  Torn MCL 3 times.  Wicked screws under IT band and Pes Anserine.  June 2008-Hip Arthroscopy.

Offline lennyk

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Re: Core Training (Could this be real)
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2007, 07:01:16 PM »
Keep in mind that articular cartilage damage is a very serious issue, especially for the long term as there are few options to get it back to anywhere close to original in the long term.

So be very careful with whatever actions you take.
Core training is very important though, especially in contact sports
but be very careful in whatever advice you take, including on internet forums.


Offline jathib

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Re: Core Training (Could this be real)
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2007, 11:00:49 PM »

Please don't bash my profession based on what someone wrote on this forum.  Attitudes such as the following are the reason athletic trainers are continued to be discriminated against by Medicare and members of congress.

I don't mean to bash your profession. But again, listening to a trainer over a doctor or physical therapist is still a bad idea. Orthopedic surgeons have 15-16 years of education. Physical therapists have either a Masters or Doctorate degree and 7-8 years of education. Any trainer or PT for that matter, that tells you your doctor is a jackass and you should stop doing what they say is what gives them a bad name. It makes me cringe to think someone would turn to a trainer, PT or chiropractor for another opinion instead of another orthopedic doctor.

Offline DeborahinNC

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Re: Core Training (Could this be real)
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2007, 01:53:38 AM »
Hi all,

I like the discussion.  I think we sometimes have narrow thought process on who might help with a particular problem (not addressed to anyone who commented here).  I do agree to call your OS a Jack ...  is very unprofessional and no one should slam another's physician but maybe suggest looking for another that may be better suited for the problem.  However, to discount someone because we don't know much about their profession, training, ideas that sound strange etc. may also be a loss in finding something that helps.  I use accupuncture, my PT, my OS and my chriopractor.  All aid in different ways and as a group of professionals they offer me specialized care.

Athlete Mom you can check with the professional organizations suggested here, call the BBB (if you are in the US) or call whoever does complaints and compliments etc for business in your area.  Part of what to find out is will this cause harm.  If no harm can be caused and some progress may be made then yahooo for your son.

Sorry just had to add my two cents worth in.  I love these discussions.

Be well all,
Deborah

Offline Aff

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Re: Core Training (Could this be real)
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2007, 09:24:17 AM »
core training will stabilise the knee area if you're into contact sports like me.  it's also amazing when you do hip abducctor stretches that you can feel your kneecap being pulled.

it's quite common to get differing points of view from fellow professionals.  i think you'll find that core strength is well known across the sports physio board to help with knee stabilizing.

whether it means you can 'throw away your crutches' though is another thing.  it really does depend on many individual factors.  if your surgeon says no though, i'd seriously consider his opinion.

fwiw, i'm working on my core at the moment and it's very very hard work :)

Offline jathib

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Re: Core Training (Could this be real)
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2007, 01:21:21 PM »

.....  However, to discount someone because we don't know much about their profession, training, ideas that sound strange etc.


I'm not sure if that was directed at me but...I'm not discounting the profession at all. I know a lot about it because the university where I work offers a degree in Athetlic Training, Exercsise Science and a host of other things. They also have a graduate doctorate degree in Physical Therapy. So I've talked with students and professors quite often. And since I'm often in PT myself I know the professors (who all have doctorates in PT) quite well. I know the roll of a trainer and PT. Even my PT will only tell me so much before he will defer me to my doctor. Both professions have their place and good ones will do a great deal of good. It's the ones that overstep their bounds that can be dangerous and cause injury to people. As soon as one tells you to stop doing what your doctor tells you and do what they tell you, you should run.

Offline The KNEEguru

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Re: Core Training (Could this be real)
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2007, 11:09:10 AM »
Hi
To be honest, I believe that there is great variation amongst all the professionals - including doctors - in how much they understand about the knee, and how much they know about the knee in relation to a particular sport. The real issue here is what you are going to do when you have had conflicting advice.

With a history of one incident of full dislocation, and a subsequent episode of subluxation, this is clearly a knee at risk of futher instability, even if there is no pain at present. A full patellar dislocation may tear structures on the medial (inner) side of the knee. Already there has been joint surface damage and you are right to be concerned about getting the right information.

There are a number of risk factors for patellar dislocation. For example, the kneecap may be higher than normal (patella alta) or the groove in which it lies may be flatter than normal (trochlear dysplasia), or there may be alignment problems of the hip, foot or even the long bones that increase the stress on the patella and tend to allow it to displace laterally (to the side). So it is likely to be in his interest to strengthen his lower back, hips and feet in addition to the medial thighs, which I suspect both the PT and the trainer are advising.

So there is the dispute regarding the brace. And also the percussion/compression/hyperbaric - which I confess I am a bit confused about what is meant by that. Can someone enlighten me?

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Offline Athlete Mom

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Re: Core Training (Could this be real)
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2007, 11:34:26 PM »
Thank you for all your comments.  I am not going to throw out the braces -- he's not uncomfortable wearing them, and after receiving 5 opinions last October, all the docs did agree that braces during athletics were a must.  I am also having him continue to work with his PT -- he has done a great job with my son getting him up to par.   However, I am also having my son do the excerises this new "trainer" told him to do -- I believe they are harmless and will help him in the long run. 

All the docs also agreed that my son needs to join a gym to keep up the leg/thigh muscles -- this new guy did not agree to that -- but it is something we will do once PT is finished. 

Anyone have any comments on his "catching" in baseball?  I've received differing opinions on this.  His PT says that his leg is strong -- very strong -- but that of course that position places alot of pressure on an already injured knee?  He didn't recommend anything either way.  Any comments?

Offline DeborahinNC

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Re: Core Training (Could this be real)
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2007, 12:29:16 AM »
It sounds like a good way to mix both ideas.  I don't know anything about being a catcher except its a position I could not (and never could) be in so if he can and does best of luck.

I hope he gets relief from the PT and other training.

And Jathib - no comment not directed at anyone.  I love discussions that bring up new ideas.

Be well,
Deborah















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