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Author Topic: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth  (Read 60218 times)

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Offline rob8647932

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Left knee - 1997 debridement, 1999 trochlea paste graft / microfracture), 2002 IAGH injections, 2005 plica and synovium removal, 2009 Regenexx injections
Right knee - 1997 debridement, 2000 trochlea paste graft, 2004 IAGH injections, 2008 Regenexx injections

Offline brendanski

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2007, 12:14:36 PM »
Hi Rob

Just read the summary on Dr Dunns experiment which is interesting. Did you have him inject the HGH into your knees? Has it worked for you ? If so, it seems strange that more of the medical profession has not taken much notice as degenerative joint disease affects millions of people.

Have you needed debridement of excess cartilage growth post injection ? There are mixed reports from my limited research on the subject and if the treatment is available it semms highly experimental at this stage. Do you know more about the backround of this treatment and if any , its success rates .

Im sure I am not the only one interested in why this treatment would go unnoticed if it was so effective.

Thanks for a response

Brendan

Offline rob8647932

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2007, 01:04:23 PM »
I had this procedure by Dr. Dunn and it was successful. It grew cartilage back but not enough to do hard core sports. I can walk, swim  and bike a little. I am at a loss why it is not more in the public discussions?????? Check out www.regenexx.com.
Left knee - 1997 debridement, 1999 trochlea paste graft / microfracture), 2002 IAGH injections, 2005 plica and synovium removal, 2009 Regenexx injections
Right knee - 1997 debridement, 2000 trochlea paste graft, 2004 IAGH injections, 2008 Regenexx injections

Offline casey2291

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2008, 05:45:27 PM »
Anyone else had this that can tell about their experience?  I checked out the website and it was interesting.  How much did you have to pay for the procedure?
LOA #2 and hardware removal 12/15/08-new cartilage from ACI looks "GOOD"
LOA on left knee 3/18/07
ACI and HTO on left knee 10/22/07
scope of right knee on 6/21/07
microfracture left knee 3/18/05

Offline rob8647932

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2008, 09:58:07 PM »
Cost is ~ $400 per injection
Left knee - 1997 debridement, 1999 trochlea paste graft / microfracture), 2002 IAGH injections, 2005 plica and synovium removal, 2009 Regenexx injections
Right knee - 1997 debridement, 2000 trochlea paste graft, 2004 IAGH injections, 2008 Regenexx injections

Offline anitdua

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2008, 12:29:56 AM »
Hi Rob,

Thanks for the info, I would request follow up, is your knee better with long term follow up and are you able to do more active sports ? How many injections did you get, I understand it is an injection every month and some patients may need more than 10 injections. Going by Dr. Dunn's website, I understand that you have to be non-weight bearing for the period of treatment which if someone gets 6 injections could be 6 months ! Any side effects from the treatment

Thanks for your response

Offline rob8647932

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2008, 07:32:39 PM »
You can call me to discuss.
3302124101
Left knee - 1997 debridement, 1999 trochlea paste graft / microfracture), 2002 IAGH injections, 2005 plica and synovium removal, 2009 Regenexx injections
Right knee - 1997 debridement, 2000 trochlea paste graft, 2004 IAGH injections, 2008 Regenexx injections

Offline SuzieFrost

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2009, 01:15:39 AM »
I think I read that you had 30 injections each time...how big are the needles, and how much did they hurt?

Offline irentat

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2009, 04:20:00 AM »
I think I read that you had 30 injections each time...how big are the needles, and how much did they hurt?

Suzie,

Not sure where you read about 30 needles.  For knees, Dr. Dunn does up to 2 shots during a visit.  He numbs the area first so you don't feel it.  I had my ankles done by this procedure through Dr. Dunn and it worked phenomenally.  Ankles BTW are the hardest to get into.  Knees are a piece of cake.

Depending upon the condition of the joint, it can be anywhere from 2 to over 10 shots.  The reason this is only 85% successful (per Dr. Dunn) in the knee is because it is hard to take the load off of a knee for such an extended period of time while the cartilage grows back.  Please note, 85% is Dr. Dunn's number based on rigorous results analysis.  He is being fair to himself and the procedure.  I personally think that if we had all the time and money, eventually enough injections can be done to completely recover all of your original cartilage.  Why do I think this?  I had my ankle done and 7 injections later, i had close to all my cartilage gap back from a condition of 0 gap...actually dead bone.  What helped?  Ankle are easy to support (take the load off) with braces for periods of months.

Please note, we are looking too closely at this issue of cartilage and "injections in the joint".  Dr. Dunn is, without a doubt, the #1 leader in research on bringing back cartilage within a joint.  However, what he does not address is why the joint lost cartilage to being with.  This is why I took the role with my joints of "Complete Joint Regeneration" as compared to just cartilage rebuilding. 

If interested I will comment further but don't want to move away from the original post.

Thank you,
Ben

Offline irentat

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2011, 02:15:29 AM »
hgh is ONLY benificial in growth when used together with insuline and steroids. Definitely not something for beginners!!....

What kind of response is this?  We are not body builder we are joint builder.  Intra-articular is galaxy's away from intra-muscular (overall body) recomposition.  Think before writing.

Offline The KNEEguru

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2011, 08:57:37 AM »
That is right - HGHDennis is on the wrong forum, I believe ....

KNEEguru
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Offline rob wilson

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2011, 05:09:29 PM »
Ben - I had a few questions re your treatment. I am sorry but I misplaced you phone numbner. Can you call me at 330-212-4101. Thanks

Rob
1997-Bilateral debridement
1999-Lt knee trochlea paste graft
2000-Rt knee trochlea paste graft
2000-Lt knee scar
2002-Lt knee ACI biopsy+plica
2002-Lt knee medial condyle abrasion+HGH
2002-Lt knee scar
2003-Rt knee trochlea abrasion+HGH
2005-Lt knee plica
2008 to present-Regenexx

Offline abrown

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2011, 02:28:52 AM »
I think I read that you had 30 injections each time...how big are the needles, and how much did they hurt?
Can  dr.Dunn  repair severe AVN in my left knee.  I can walk, but wouldn't try running.
Suzie,

Not sure where you read about 30 needles.  For knees, Dr. Dunn does up to 2 shots during a visit.  He numbs the area first so you don't feel it.  I had my ankles done by this procedure through Dr. Dunn and it worked phenomenally.  Ankles BTW are the hardest to get into.  Knees are a piece of cake.

Depending upon the condition of the joint, it can be anywhere from 2 to over 10 shots.  The reason this is only 85% successful (per Dr. Dunn) in the knee is because it is hard to take the load off of a knee for such an extended period of time while the cartilage grows back.  Please note, 85% is Dr. Dunn's number based on rigorous results analysis.  He is being fair to himself and the procedure.  I personally think that if we had all the time and money, eventually enough injections can be done to completely recover all of your original cartilage.  Why do I think this?  I had my ankle done and 7 injections later, i had close to all my cartilage gap back from a condition of 0 gap...actually dead bone.  What helped?  Ankle are easy to support (take the load off) with braces for periods of months.

Please note, we are looking too closely at this issue of cartilage and "injections in the joint".  Dr. Dunn is, without a doubt, the #1 leader in research on bringing back cartilage within a joint.  However, what he does not address is why the joint lost cartilage to being with.  This is why I took the role with my joints of "Complete Joint Regeneration" as compared to just cartilage rebuilding. 

If interested I will comment further but don't want to move away from the original post.

Thank you,
Ben

Offline Honeybunch

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2012, 04:52:11 AM »
I had HGH in my knee and it regrew my osteochondral lesions within 8 weeks. I was weight bearing, minimal for 2 weeks after them. It was cheap too, just paid for the HGH prescription. (well, as cheap as hgh is)

Offline garethday

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2012, 09:34:51 AM »
Honeybunch, i would love to hear more about your treatment and conditions, my email is [email protected]

Many thanks

Offline The KNEEguru

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2012, 06:15:37 PM »
I just want to highlight that the doctor mentioned in most of the threads is a researcher of the method (http://www.iagh.com/curriculum.html) and that the procedure at this stage is not mainstream.
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Offline irentat

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2012, 06:27:31 PM »
I just want to highlight that the doctor mentioned in most of the threads is a researcher of the method (http://www.iagh.com/curriculum.html) and that the procedure at this stage is not mainstream.

I do not understand the reason for stating this is not mainstream.  Is this to deter people from looking at this option?

First we have to define mainstream.  Mainstream to me would be a way to regerenate my own joints with naturally occuring hormones.  Not surgery or artificial parts permanently implanted in my body that can wear out. It is perspective I suppose.

Sorry I have a very strong opinion on this.

Offline The KNEEguru

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2012, 09:30:12 PM »
By mainstream I mean that this is not a procedure well published in the medical literature for use in humans with cartilage defects.
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Offline vexen

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2012, 05:45:25 PM »
Arthroscopic debridement is mainstream and yet studies show it does absolutely nothing for people with osteoarthritis vs placebo (fake surgery).

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa013259

I don't wish to offend, but just because it is not widely published shouldn't really mean anything at this point in light of the fact that the number of people with osteoarthritis is increasing on a yearly basis in the states and other nations.

Steroid shots are mainstream and yet they have been shown to actually accelerate arthritic development. Maybe we should be ignoring mainstream treatments and start looking towards people like Dr Dunn who have actually achieved real results, and at an affordable cost no less.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 05:47:42 PM by vexen »

Offline The KNEEguru

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2012, 07:45:12 PM »
Yes, points taken. I look forward to reading Dr Dunn's results when they are published.
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Offline irentat

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2012, 11:00:01 PM »
Guru,
He will never publish.  When I last spoke to him almost 4 years ago, he was close to 80 and he stated very bluntly that he had other research priorities first to publish.  Also, once he concludes his FDA approved IA HGH research, he has to stop giving the injections as it is no longer under the research umbrella.  He has built a tremendous business around these injections and don't think he wants to give that up.

Offline annasankle

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2012, 09:26:58 AM »
Honeybunch,

It would be interesting to note the frequency of your injections, amt of IUs received per injections and total time that you were non-weight bearing.

I have my own mountain to climb for my ankle cartilage problem due to car accident 8 yrs ago.

Thank you.
Anna

Offline Honeybunch

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2012, 06:54:25 AM »
The first round I had injections Friday - Monday - Wedneday, 4-5 iu and was only resting for a few days after injections as I couldn't use crutches because my other knee has a meniscus tear. This time around for the meniscus knee which hasn't healed he is doing 6iu once a week for 3 weeks

Offline ashok_guru

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2012, 07:31:01 PM »
I have scheduled an appointment with a doctor nearby my location who agreed to do HGH injections of 34 I.U per injection into the knee weekly. I am starting this procedure from July 20th.
2009 - Partial Meniscetomy
2010 - Cartilage Debridement
2010 - 2011 - Prolotherapy, PRP, Bone Marrow Prolotherapy, Prolozone
2011 - Regenexx-PL, Regenexx SD and Regenexx-SCP
2012 - HGH Injections
2013 - Regenexx-PL, Regenexx SD, Regenexx-AD and Regenexx-SCP

Offline Honeybunch

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2012, 06:41:13 PM »
I have scheduled an appointment with a doctor nearby my location who agreed to do HGH injections of 34 I.U per injection into the knee weekly. I am starting this procedure from July 20th.


34 IU ?  :o

Offline ashok_guru

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2012, 04:00:47 PM »
Is it too much ? I heard Dr. Dunn is using 45 I.U ? Please let me know so that I can talk to my doctor about this.  Thanks
2009 - Partial Meniscetomy
2010 - Cartilage Debridement
2010 - 2011 - Prolotherapy, PRP, Bone Marrow Prolotherapy, Prolozone
2011 - Regenexx-PL, Regenexx SD and Regenexx-SCP
2012 - HGH Injections
2013 - Regenexx-PL, Regenexx SD, Regenexx-AD and Regenexx-SCP

Offline irentat

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2012, 04:05:29 PM »
Ashok,
Yes Dunn uses up to 45 IU but focuses on monthly injections.  I agree with your weekly injections for an extended period of time but would personally use less.  15 IU should be sufficent used weekly.  My personal feeling there is a reduced rate of return in regards to cartilage regeneration speed.  You are already flooding the cells with GH every week.  3X as much will not give you 3X the speed to regenerate.

Offline ashok_guru

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2012, 05:34:44 PM »
Thanks again Ben for the quick clarification. will talk to my doctor about this.
2009 - Partial Meniscetomy
2010 - Cartilage Debridement
2010 - 2011 - Prolotherapy, PRP, Bone Marrow Prolotherapy, Prolozone
2011 - Regenexx-PL, Regenexx SD and Regenexx-SCP
2012 - HGH Injections
2013 - Regenexx-PL, Regenexx SD, Regenexx-AD and Regenexx-SCP

Offline fandelem

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2012, 07:49:39 PM »
Hi All,

I spent all day today reading the massive 26 page thread that only to find, had been closed!

So I am going to post here because it is most relevant.

I have always been active (mt. biking, moderate weights, 2-3mi runs).  31 male / 21 BMI / no surgeries.

1yr ago I started dating a nationally ranked runner.  She inspired me to run more.  Well only a month or so into running "more" (frequency, same distance) I noticed on slightly longer runs (4-5mi, once a week) my left knee would get this sharp pain, medial side. 

Went to Dr. Eaton in Tampa.
--Diagnosed it a Medial Plica issue.
--Shot me up with cortisone (first ever in my life). 
--Seemed to feel better for a month.  Then slowly faded. 
----Went back after 3 months, he wanted to shoot me up again, I said fine, but if there is a next time I want this plica removed. 
------Months passed, got busy, couldn't schedule surgery but gave me yet another cortisone shot (3 total)
--------Nov2, 2012 had Plica surgery.
----------While in surgery, he noticed a floating piece of cartilage, an edge to the cartilage behind the patella, and very soft cartilage.
------------He recommended hyaluronic acid therapy as an ongoing form of therapy


I am less than 1 week on recovery, but I am vigorously researching cartilage treatments. 

I feel very fortunate compared to most on this board with bone-on-bone.  My heart goes out to you.


Questions for the board members... in specifics to my condition:
Q1: So far, I have read that PRP is mostly for ligament/tendons fixing.  If mine are strong, would it make sense to skip this, or should I explore it further?

Q2: Would reaching out to Dr Dunn be worth my time even though it is minor in what he typically sees, I feel that I would benefit from his iAGH therapy.  Does he only do it in conjunction with shaved down surgery?

Q3: It seems that many board members have had success with rebuilding cartilage following IA HGH - Humatrope in addition to T-shot (water-susp) series (15IU, 7.5IU, 7.5IU, 15IU).  Can you help my lingo so when I ask about rebuilding cartilage and these shots I sound educated?

Q4: Would I benefit from prolo? And did anyone reach a consensus on double centrifuge?  Also I pulled this from posts -- is it still a good approach? Hackett Hemwell prolotherapy (~ 20 injections of PRP, HGH, testosterone, prolotherapy / destrose, sodium murrahte, etc.)

Q5: Do you think the 3 shots of cortisone within 9 month period could have given the appearance at the time of the surgery as soft cartilage and could possibly be temporary?? 

Q6: Any takers on how that floating cartilage happened?

Q7: Anyone agree with trying hyaluronic acid or should I go with some combination of GH/prolo/PRP/T?

I have attached pictures from my surgery to show you my cartilage.  The board only allows tiny 128KB size which is really bizarre.  You should be able to zoom in on your photo editor though.  My notes are on there from my followup and are not medical and could be incorrect! I was writing fast.


Thanks in advance for your time and consideration.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 07:57:24 PM by fandelem »

Offline rob wilson

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2012, 09:33:53 PM »
Most of this would assist but the best is stem cells from your bone marrow.  Check out

http://www.regenexx.com/
1997-Bilateral debridement
1999-Lt knee trochlea paste graft
2000-Rt knee trochlea paste graft
2000-Lt knee scar
2002-Lt knee ACI biopsy+plica
2002-Lt knee medial condyle abrasion+HGH
2002-Lt knee scar
2003-Rt knee trochlea abrasion+HGH
2005-Lt knee plica
2008 to present-Regenexx

Offline fandelem

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2012, 02:14:41 PM »
Thanks Rob for replying.

Do you think the 3 shots of cortisone within 9 month period could have given the appearance at the time of the surgery as soft cartilage and could possibly be temporary?? 

I feel like since I have cartilage still, maybe there is a less costly approach than stem cells?  Thoughts? 

jtcarlto

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2013, 05:27:43 AM »
Bump.  Honeybrunch do you have contact information (i.e. an e-mail for questions?).  I am looking into this procedure.

Thanks!!!
Jeff

Offline Kefu

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2013, 09:38:10 PM »
Chronic anterior knee pain // chondromalacia patella // patella femoral pain

History: Let me begin with some backround. I am 23 years old male currently living in Canada.  I have had anterior knee pain in my right knee for over 6 years. It started when I played soccer, and it just got worse. My IT bands, quads, and hip flexors are really tight. Nothing seems to really loosen them. I have tried physiotherapy from multiple physiotherapists, ART, trigger point dry needling, acupuncture, massage therapy, foam rolling (lacross ball, PVC pipe, rumble roller), suction cupping, strengthing glute medius and maximus, VMO strengthening, orthotics, prolozone, joint supplements, heel wedge for leg length discrepency (my right leg is 1 cm shorter). I dont do any physical activity besides physiotherapy. My pain is at a constant 5/10, sometimes its lower, but sometimes like in rainy days or cold days its even higher. Basically all the physiotherapists are perplexed at my issue and they say that I should not be feeling so much pain. They think my overall mobility and flexibility isn't that bad. But when they massage they notice that my soft tissue is really tight with lots of "junk" or adhesive knots.

Joint supplements:
1) NEM - natural egg shell membrane (500mg)
2) pycnogenol (100mg)
3) fish oil (2000mg)
4) krill oil (500mg)
5) curcumin (500mg)
Note: They dont seem to have helped much. I am thinking of replacing my curcumin with Thorne Meriva (a high potency curcumin, with 20x more absorption) based on all the good reviews. Someone even said its worked better than cortisone shots. I have also tried MSM and type 2 collagen from fortigel.

Diagnostic imaging done:
1) X-ray - showed nothing abnormal besides patella tilt
2) ultrasound - showed mild inflammation in my right knee, nothing serious
3) MRI - getting it done in January

Previous treatments:
1) Physiotherapists - looked at mobility, muscular imbalances, glute medius, glute maxmus, VMO strengthening, stretching, self myofascial release, foam rolling, suction cupping, ART, massage therapy, orthotics, gait analyses, heel wedge for leg length discrepency, trigger point dry needling, acupuncture, postural work, went to Fowler and Kennedy sports medicine clinic in London Ontario, and many other places

2) Dr Robert Banner (London ON) - 6 treatments of Prolozone injections, once every month so far. Only noticed temporary relief of pain, maybe for 2 weeks after each injection. He has recommended EMF (electromagnetic field) protective devices such as diodes. He says it may help since my symptoms are worse on rainy days
Prolozone solution includes: ozone, dextrose, vit b12, procaine

Possible Future treatments:
1) Botox (Dr. Gordon Ko in Markham) - into the vastus lateralis (any maybe hip flexor). This has shown to be effective in some recent studies for patients with refractory anterior knee pain. The idea is you shut down the vastus lateralis for 3 months, and you continue to do physiotherapy, this gives you a window of time for selectively strengthening and isolating the VMO. This will help with tracking and tilt issues, and can give symptomatic relief of muscle tightness during the 3 months. Its good for addressing muscular balance issues. Dr. Gordon Ko also does PRP, prolotherapy, hyaluronic acid, and botox into the joint.

2) HGH or testosterone or IGF-1(self injection) - have read this has helped some people on this forum. Particularly Irentat. I am looking into injecting into my own knee to save thousands of dollars. This can help regenerate possible cartilage damage I might have.

3) Dr. Anthony Galea (Etobicoke/Toronto) - he is a prominent sports medicine physician infamous for treating athletes and giving them HGH. Don't know what kind of treatment he would give me. I know he does PRP, but I dont know if he can give HGH anymore since its illegal here in Canada and hes gotten in trouble for that.

If anyone can provide any help on what I can do to help my case, It would be greatly appreciated. I feel like I almost tried everything, and I have gotten almost no relief in knee pain. The only thing that has improved is my muscle tightness, and IT band tightness, but even this might be temporary, as I work my IT bands and muscles every day, and see someone every week for them to be massaged or released.

Offline JamesDean

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2013, 09:05:57 PM »
Chronic anterior knee pain // chondromalacia patella // patella femoral pain

History: Let me begin with some backround. I am 23 years old male currently living in Canada.  I have had anterior knee pain in my right knee for over 6 years. It started when I played soccer, and it just got worse. My IT bands, quads, and hip flexors are really tight. Nothing seems to really loosen them. I have tried physiotherapy from multiple physiotherapists, ART, trigger point dry needling, acupuncture, massage therapy, foam rolling (lacross ball, PVC pipe, rumble roller), suction cupping, strengthing glute medius and maximus, VMO strengthening, orthotics, prolozone, joint supplements, heel wedge for leg length discrepency (my right leg is 1 cm shorter). I dont do any physical activity besides physiotherapy. My pain is at a constant 5/10, sometimes its lower, but sometimes like in rainy days or cold days its even higher. Basically all the physiotherapists are perplexed at my issue and they say that I should not be feeling so much pain. They think my overall mobility and flexibility isn't that bad. But when they massage they notice that my soft tissue is really tight with lots of "junk" or adhesive knots.

Joint supplements:
1) NEM - natural egg shell membrane (500mg)
2) pycnogenol (100mg)
3) fish oil (2000mg)
4) krill oil (500mg)
5) curcumin (500mg)
Note: They dont seem to have helped much. I am thinking of replacing my curcumin with Thorne Meriva (a high potency curcumin, with 20x more absorption) based on all the good reviews. Someone even said its worked better than cortisone shots. I have also tried MSM and type 2 collagen from fortigel.

Diagnostic imaging done:
1) X-ray - showed nothing abnormal besides patella tilt
2) ultrasound - showed mild inflammation in my right knee, nothing serious
3) MRI - getting it done in January

Previous treatments:
1) Physiotherapists - looked at mobility, muscular imbalances, glute medius, glute maxmus, VMO strengthening, stretching, self myofascial release, foam rolling, suction cupping, ART, massage therapy, orthotics, gait analyses, heel wedge for leg length discrepency, trigger point dry needling, acupuncture, postural work, went to Fowler and Kennedy sports medicine clinic in London Ontario, and many other places

2) Dr Robert Banner (London ON) - 6 treatments of Prolozone injections, once every month so far. Only noticed temporary relief of pain, maybe for 2 weeks after each injection. He has recommended EMF (electromagnetic field) protective devices such as diodes. He says it may help since my symptoms are worse on rainy days
Prolozone solution includes: ozone, dextrose, vit b12, procaine

Possible Future treatments:
1) Botox (Dr. Gordon Ko in Markham) - into the vastus lateralis (any maybe hip flexor). This has shown to be effective in some recent studies for patients with refractory anterior knee pain. The idea is you shut down the vastus lateralis for 3 months, and you continue to do physiotherapy, this gives you a window of time for selectively strengthening and isolating the VMO. This will help with tracking and tilt issues, and can give symptomatic relief of muscle tightness during the 3 months. Its good for addressing muscular balance issues. Dr. Gordon Ko also does PRP, prolotherapy, hyaluronic acid, and botox into the joint.

2) HGH or testosterone or IGF-1(self injection) - have read this has helped some people on this forum. Particularly Irentat. I am looking into injecting into my own knee to save thousands of dollars. This can help regenerate possible cartilage damage I might have.

3) Dr. Anthony Galea (Etobicoke/Toronto) - he is a prominent sports medicine physician infamous for treating athletes and giving them HGH. Don't know what kind of treatment he would give me. I know he does PRP, but I dont know if he can give HGH anymore since its illegal here in Canada and hes gotten in trouble for that.

If anyone can provide any help on what I can do to help my case, It would be greatly appreciated. I feel like I almost tried everything, and I have gotten almost no relief in knee pain. The only thing that has improved is my muscle tightness, and IT band tightness, but even this might be temporary, as I work my IT bands and muscles every day, and see someone every week for them to be massaged or released.

Kefu, I can't send PM's yet. So, if you read this, shoot me a message. I have some experience with HGH so may be I could help you out a bit.

Offline diggz1

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2014, 05:05:36 AM »
Irentat, I have seen your posts in some other threads and was wondering if I could ask you directly what exactly your protocol was and which side of the knee you injected into.. I have grade IV chondromalacia on the lateral femoral chondyle as well as continued knee pain on the medial side of my knee where I have had two partial medial meniscectomies. I am to the point where I am wanting to try testosterone injections into my knee to see if I can regrow that cartilage. I have had prolo/PRP with not much success and want to bypass stem cells as it seems most everyone has had limited success with that.
2009--Torn R acl, mcl, medial & lateral meniscus
June 2009-R knee Double partial meniscectomy
July 2012-R knee ACL recon. hamstring graft
Aug2013-R knee Grade IV Chondromalacia
L knee pain 3+ yrs

Offline Kefu

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2014, 06:02:35 AM »
I believe he had an ankle issue not a knee issue. If your looking to self-inject be clear of the risks and side effects. You will must likely be needing to inject yourself over 100 times for it to have any significant effect. Testosterone is not the best thing that can be used, their are better bioactives. How much prolotherapy and PRP did you have? PRP in theory would work better than testosterone if you compare 1 injection of PRP to 1 injection of testosterone. So 20 PRP injection > 20 testosterone injections. The problem with 20 PRP injections is that its a s**t load of money. Thats why some people with cartilage damage have decided to do autologous blood injections which is free (although not researched for cartilage, and probably not as effective as the platelets aren't concentrated).

You are correct when you say stem cells have limited success. The price is expensive as hell and hasn't been effective. This is because over 90% of the stem cells die after injection. The remaining <10% either dont integrate well with your tissue, diffuse from the site of injury, or dont really do anything.

Message me if you want more detailed info on what are the best options in terms of regenerating cartilage.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 06:08:20 AM by Kefu »

Offline The KNEEguru

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2014, 09:45:56 PM »
I just want to say that I previously locked a thread where the participants were advocating 'self injection' into the knee joint.

This is a professional medical site, and we do not want readers to get the impression that we support such a practice, particularly with respect to potential joint infection.

I have clicked the 'notify' button just to make sure that the discussion on self injection does not continue here. If it does, then I am sorry but I will lock the thread.
--
KNEEguru

Offline diggz1

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2014, 02:51:17 AM »
Kefu,
I have had one PRP injection w/prolo and am going to get another set of PRP injections into both knees this friday that I am able to have done through the VA because they are service connected and my ortho surgeon is able to administer these for free for me...Hopefully I am able to get multiple injections from him every 4-6 weeks and hopefully they begin to help..Do you have any experience with PRP?
 I dont have enough messages yet but will message you once I have enough posts..Thanks for the ideas on this.
2009--Torn R acl, mcl, medial & lateral meniscus
June 2009-R knee Double partial meniscectomy
July 2012-R knee ACL recon. hamstring graft
Aug2013-R knee Grade IV Chondromalacia
L knee pain 3+ yrs

Offline muscle20

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2014, 09:18:15 AM »
any doctors in the uk doing this procedure ?

Offline Highlander

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2015, 11:30:58 AM »
Hi All,

I'm from South Africa and suffer with severe cartilage degeneartion (Bone on Bone) on both knees. I have had several op's over the years on both due to sport injuries etc, hence I have been advised that knee replacement's are in order.I am interested in The IAGH Regeneration that Dr Dunn offer's (however logistics are a problem for me at this stage as he is in Miami and I am in South Africa)

Both Rob's and Honeybunch comments below caught my eye in terms hereof. Do you know what the name of the Growth Hormone that was used for your procedure you had with Dr Dunn and what dosages etc.

If anyone can shed any information herein I would be much appreciated as I definetely want to keep away from Knee Replacements due to my age - (40YRS).

Many Thanks,

Offline tblair

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Re: Interesting article on HGH for knee cartilage regrowth
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2017, 08:25:58 PM »
It seems Dr Dunn has retired from medicine due to health concerns .. does anyone know of any other doctor who is doing IAGH injections ?  I was a patient of Dr Dunns and IAGH was successful on my knee