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Author Topic: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells  (Read 223795 times)

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Offline Jules2424

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #270 on: April 07, 2011, 01:52:56 AM »
RE: The beginning of this thread.

The stem cell discussion really shouldn't be turned into a chest thumping competition. We're all here to learn. And on that note I found a great article that intelligently probes into this topic:

http://repairstemcells.org/Resources/Featured-Articles/Shopping-for-bones-a-future-possibility.aspx

This article discusses the possible future of stem cells for bones. If you really want to know about stem cell research, it's a good idea to read up on anything you can find.  That way we can explore this theme together w/out taking sides.  Are there  snake oil salesmen? Of course.  Are there money hungry, negligent doctors? You bet. Should we make sweeping generalizations?  Of course not.

Let's remember that nothing in this universe is black & white.  There's a whole spectrum of colors & much more that is a total mystery to all of us.. Medicine, after all, is part science, part art & a lot of luck.  Aren't we here because we need to look at all aspects? I am. And so very grateful that we have this forum to explore all issues that might  help us heal.
Jules
EGADS! My knee hurts!


Jules

Offline Scooter72

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #271 on: April 07, 2011, 02:02:11 AM »
Nice Jules.  I am glad you agree that intelligent discourse should be the norm, and not the exception.  Nice article you posted, albeit it deals with bone regeneration, and not cartilage (although there is significant crossover in the stem cell populations that will regenerate both).


Offline Jules2424

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #272 on: April 08, 2011, 02:13:05 AM »
Scooter & All interested in unbiased opinions about Regenexx:  I found this website that gives people free info on stem cell clinics, both here and abroad. They seem pretty legit since they aren't selling any specific place. They seem to want to help people find credible stem cell clinics. I filled out the form for free & they responded in one day. This is their email:


<<"Thank you for your application. Since Regenexx is not one of the Institute's recommended treatment center, we cannot provide you with detailed information on their treatments.  We do think they are dependable.
The treatment center we recommend for knees (and the best we have seen) is in Maryland, costs about $10,000 and requires one full outpatient day for treatment.
Sincerely,         
David, RSCI Coordinator         
Repair Stem Cell Institute LLC         

www.RepairStemCells.org <http://www.repairstemcells.org>
         
The Voice of Stem Cell Science ">>

They didn't give me Maryland clinic's  email or web address & I couldn't find it online so they're obviously not trying to push or advertise it.  I can write them back & ask, but Maryland is a long trek from California. However, I'd like to see what they're offering in terms of knee regeneration w/stem cells & compare their method to Regenexx's.  What I like best about their email is that they state that Regenexx is "dependable."  Regenexx is not one of their recommended clinics (yet), but a reason might be because Regenexx is strictly ortho & they research clinics that offer all types of disease treatments, such as cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, etc. Their list of diseases is vast. My take on this site is that they weed out the frauds, thus help people make informed choices & save themselves a lot of heartache not to mention possible dangers. Anyway, this is my take on this site & I am open to anyone else's interpretation. Plus, now we have one unbiased opinion that does not come from Regenexx.

Jules
Oh, dear Universe...please heal my knee w/out surgery  :-*
Jules

Offline jamesofsuburbia

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #273 on: May 09, 2011, 12:47:50 PM »
G'day mates

Thanks Scooter for taking some of the questions that were flung at me, I have been hard at rehab and relaxation the last 4 weeks since my surgery.

The microfracture is feeling great, turns out I had an ACL tear to deal with too, which has been repaired also. Im being really careful on it, and I have a great surgeon and physiotherapist helping me along.

Lets hope for the best re stem cells in the future, I remain fascinated and optimistic in its capabilities.

Offline sbstritt

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #274 on: May 12, 2011, 07:51:38 AM »
I have had 30% of my medial meniscus removed. I have had continual discomfort after two meniscectomies. I got some relief from Synvisco and PRP injections to my knee joint. I am wondering what people think about Regennex for this type of scenario. I know that they use a xray fluroscope to guide the injections. Can they actually hit the part of the meniscus where it was removed with the injection needle for the stem cells? Has anyone had this type of scenario (or worse) and did they have a positive outcome? I am 49 yo male still in very good shape with little arthritis in the knee and good joint spacing. I am trying to decide between stem cell treatment and menaflex implant? Thoughts people!

Offline sbstritt

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #275 on: May 13, 2011, 04:08:05 AM »
point of clarification on my previous post, i had two previous partial meniscectomies- both small tears (total of 30% of meniscus removed)

Offline Scooter72

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #276 on: May 15, 2011, 10:30:19 PM »
I have had 30% of my medial meniscus removed. I have had continual discomfort after two meniscectomies. I got some relief from Synvisco and PRP injections to my knee joint. I am wondering what people think about Regennex for this type of scenario. I know that they use a xray fluroscope to guide the injections. Can they actually hit the part of the meniscus where it was removed with the injection needle for the stem cells? Has anyone had this type of scenario (or worse) and did they have a positive outcome? I am 49 yo male still in very good shape with little arthritis in the knee and good joint spacing. I am trying to decide between stem cell treatment and menaflex implant? Thoughts people!

I know that people with meniscotomy have been treated at the Centeno-Schultz clinic.  However, I can hardly speak as to the efficacy of their treatment in your particular case.  I will however say with good confidence that yes, they can "hit the part of the meniscus where it was removed".  From personal experience, I can tell you they are experts at guiding the injections directly into the troubled areas.

Offline Maite Velasco

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #277 on: May 27, 2011, 09:13:04 AM »
Hello!

I would like to know if there are any other clinics whith treatments with stem cells apart from this in Denver. I am from Spain and it is a little far from home.

Has anybody had a stem cells operation? I donīt know if it is invasive, how much time do the operation last and the time of rehabilitation. And also the cost.

Thank you for your help.
Maite.

Offline Happy Knee

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #278 on: June 16, 2011, 10:39:56 PM »
Hi - new here...thank a lot for all this wonderful information! I've been checking the Regenexx group out, also the Stem Cell Orthopedic in FL - will give them a call once I'm enough informed to ask the right questions...

To Jules2424 - the suggestion for the http://www.repairstemcells.org link is a good one - sent them a request. BUT then I discovered the following...

the only thing is that it seems a bit presumptuous to only recommend 10 out of 500 centers worldwide - I am sure there are quite a few more good ones out there. Looking through how they work, it turns out they just give you a recommendation from this tiny pool of 10 centers - and give the name to you only after you've gone through with their consultaions the whole way. In short, they essentially funnel you to these 10 centers...thus it looks like they are a sleek marketing and sales tool, probably funded by these 10 centers that they recommend (or at least, they are in exceptionally good personal terms with them...). I am not sure they are really objective thus...

Or am I reading this wrongly? Dont think so though...

it seems like there's really a jungle out there - the more I research, the more it get's dense...

What makes it so insiduous is that even though I've got a solid scientific background and am repeatedly shocked at how sloppy the medical and research community often operate (beginning with cleverly massaged statistics to carefully selected omissions of data/information), continuous pain can drive one to desperation - which tends to make one want to believe in cures that with a clear, detached head one would otherwise be weary of...

In any case - I think that stem cell therapy - if it works (some day) - is still better than surgery. And I will keep on researching them - until I may just take the jump...for I hate having gone from active athlete to complete couch potato these past two years...

keep posting and tx.

cheers, Mr. Happy Knee  :)


Offline selfridge23

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #279 on: July 12, 2011, 02:05:08 AM »
Hi Happy Knee and all others with knee problems who are trying to figure things out!
I agree, it is a "jungle out there". I am a 58 year old female who is fit and active in swimming and golf. I now have supposedly developed chondromalacia (degeneration of cartilage under my knee cap), a free-floating fragment, as well as a bone spur, and my knee cap is not tracking the way it should. I have been to FIVE different surgeons, and I was given five different opinions of what to do. Solutions were from one end of the spectrum (do nothing) to the other end (get a knee replacement) and everything in between (therapy, injections, arthroscopy to take bone fragment out and do a lateral release). I have mild to moderate arthritis, and I have never had surgery. I am concerned about numerous things that come with surgery, in particular, scar tissue. And, I am not thrilled with the idea of getting a lateral release, because I've heard so many horror stories and low success rates attached to that procedure.
So, the Regenexx treatments really interested me. I'm curious if anyone out there has had Regenexx injections for a knee similar to mine, and if so, how are you doing? And also, I'm curious about the stem cell draw itself...does anyone know if taking stem cells out of the hip bone weakens the hip in anyway? The last thing I would want is to trade one problem for another one down line. I'd appreciate any help that's floating around out there in Kneegeek Land. Thanks. Mary

Offline prpgk1

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #280 on: July 12, 2011, 06:55:20 PM »
I've considered the Regnexx procdure but I have my doubts about how useful it would be . It looke likely to cost 10,000.00 if you include flying out to Denver and staying there for a couple of days at least. I'm bothered by the lack of studies that Regenexx has done. After being in business for over five years now they've yet to publish a comprehensive peer reviewed double blind study. This is the only acceptable study  that is accepted by the Scientific community.

I'm also bothered by the posts I see here. Hard for me to imagine that Scooter72 is not either Dr. Cenetnio or Dr. Schultz. Also has anyone else noticed a trend here . Someone posts that they've had a consult with Regenexx, they plan on going through the procedure. Then they suddenly disappear . Very strange behavior. According to Regenexx they have performed well over 450 of these operations. Yet I've seen very few people on any of these sites come here or anywhere and announce hos successful the procedure has been. If that had been me I'd be all over the place telling everyone how great this has been. So until I get some good data I plan on staying away from Regenexx.


Offline WestPoint

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #281 on: July 12, 2011, 08:40:06 PM »
I believe that would only be to your own loss.

As for anecdotes all over the Internet about Regenexx success stories, I don't know where you've been. Ask yourself this though: If what you are saying is true, wouldn't the Internet be full of stories of people who got absolutely nothing out of this treatment?

Personally, I find it a bit pathetic that you figure that Scooter could be Dr. Centeno or Dr. Schultz. While you're at it, you could get the secretary's name, too, and include that in your list. I think they're a little busy for that, don't you? Be fair.

Don't get me wrong. I have no problem with you or anyone not wanting to use Dr. Centeno's service and technology or even critiquing it fairly if need be. But polluting the Internet in this manner with highly speculative and even slanderous insinuations is another issue.

Please, keep your criticisms evidence oriented, as you have spoken about evidence oriented scholarship (studies) in your post. We wouldn't want you to be espousing double standards...

 

Offline Dr. Centeno

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #282 on: July 12, 2011, 09:11:07 PM »
Dear all,

Neither Dr. Schultz nor I are Scooter nor any other name. My only login for this site is my name. David G is a very nice man that feels passionately about adult stem cells, but David is a pay for blogger. He approached us about whether we would compensate him to blog on our behalf, we said no. I suspect this is why were dependable but not reccomended. We charge approximately less than half of the Maryland group for the same procedure that we believe is better because we don't use a bedside centrifuge/kit, but our own process with real people handling the cells rather than a machine.

We have published our work and continue to publish. We have a study in medical journal review now on the outcomes of 250 knee/hip patients that has a provisional acceptance pending a revision. This will go back into the editor this week or next, hopefully it will be published this fall. This same data (a smaller and less analyzed data set) was already presented at the Orthopedic Research Society, see http://www.regenexx.com/2010/09/centeno-schultz-clinic-abstract-accepted-by-orthopedic-research-society/ . We have a safety paper published in the National Library of Medicine located at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19951252. We have a larger n=339 safety paper that was just accepted for publication. Finally, our early knee data set has already been published at http://www.jpands.org/vol16no2/centeno.pdf.

Regarding the comments RE: double blind, randomized trials, this is not the standard in orthopedics or musculoskeletal medicine, but a great aspirational goal. Almost none of the knee procedures being discussed on this board have passed this test. This includes micro fracture, ACI, MACI, high tibial osteotomy, you name it. So if this is the standard, then almost all orthopedic surgical procedures fail out of the gate.

We have many, many happy patients, to read their stories see http://www.regenexx.com/global-navigation/regenexx-blog/ . Having said that, we have a medical procedure with a success and failure rate, like any other procedure. This board is filled with patients that love one procedure or don't like it for various reasons. We are a viable knee surgery alternative option that as of the publication of the two papers in review (above), will have as much published data about our procedure as any other procedure considered on this board (level II evidence).

Offline Scooter72

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #283 on: July 13, 2011, 01:37:49 AM »
Thanks to West Point and Dr. Centeno for their recent replies, although I am sure that the naysayers will continue to come here and make such implications.  It's ironic, because of the three doctors, Dr. Centeno is the one I did not get to see or meet, since he was away at a conference when I was at the clinic.

I don't know what else to do here.. I can only relay my experience, and explain the theory behind why MSCs give positive results for certain orthopedic maladies.  (see my post on pg 18)  It's not as if there isn't any hardcore molecular research to back all this up; as I've said a few times, all one has to do is go to pubmed and type in any combination of words dealing with MSCs, cartilage, bone etc.. into the search engine.

For me, it's somewhat amusing having random people come into these threads, and post their conspiracies.  Most are similar.  Not one has been willing (or able?) to debate the merits of MSCs as being used by the Centeno-Schultz clinic, on a scientific ground. 

Offline azawakh

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #284 on: July 24, 2011, 01:27:17 AM »
Regarding Centeno-Schultz:
     I had a consultation with Dr. Hansen from their clinic in May of 2011.  I had a left knee with stage four osteoarthritis and seventeen degrees of valgus in the tibia.
     Dr. Hansen informed me of the procedure that he would use for the cartilage repair - adipose graft and then stem cell injections.  He also informed me that in his opinion I was a poor to fair candidate for the success of the graft and stem cell injections. Additionally, he did point out my valgus and indicated that even with the clinic's procedures I would need a tibial osteotomy to correct the valgus.
     As a result of this consultation I can certainly say that I was disappointed with the low probability of success and I was impressed with Dr. Hansen's honesty about the need to correct the valgus. Because of his honesty I had a TKR on June 20, 2011 performed by Dr. Stephan Kreuzer in Houston, Texas.  It is not what I wanted but my discussion with Dr. Hansen made me realize the appropriate choice for me.
     As such, my impression regarding Centeno-Schultz is that they are honest, have the ability to properly diagnose a condition and obviously are not so greedy that they would tell me that I would be an excellent candidate.

 















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