Regenexx injections - Stem Cells

[sparky52]

I am 52 fit thin and eat right and dont smoke or drink. I have no meniscus and severely osteo arthritic (stage 3-4) medial compartment of the right knee. 14 days ago I had a cocktail of my stem cells/prp and fat from my buttock injected into my right knee medial compartment after debridement by Dr. Nathan Wei in of thew Maryland Arthritis Center in Frederick MD. The stem cells were aspirated from my iliac crest and reinjected into my knee within an hour of aspiration. So far the pain is gone and there were no complications. Dr. Wei projects regrowth of .4mm of articular cartilage in 6 months and a total of.8mm in 12 months. I will be non weight bearant for 4 weeks total  post op then a slow rehab. I spent about $8K on the treatment. Significant but cheap if it works. Of course, there is no hope of insurance compensation.
There is a philosophical disagreement on the matter of cell expansion between Centano/Schulz at Regenexx and Dr. Nathan Wei. Wei feels expansion of cells and multiple re-injections is unnecessary adding no benefit. Regenexx feels very differently about this and has their own quite rational point of view. I hope Wei is right, but have no real opinion myself. Wei was a lot closer and easier for me.
Has anyone out there had Regenexxx and had their regrowth thickness measured at least 6 months post op or better yet 12 months post op?
As typical cartilage thickness at peak is about 4mm, .8 regrowth is significant but I'd rather get 3mm.
Since PRP is part of the cocktail for both Regenexx and Dr. Wei I wonder if post op prolotherapy with PRP every couple or three months would augment growth since it clearly occurs for at least 12.
Anyone who has relevant info here please feel free to email. I am not really interested in being critical or creating controversy, just gathering good info.
 

[mccartjt]

Hi Sparky52

The difference between with Dr Centeno's procedure versus Dr Wei procedure is that Dr Centeno' s procedure (from what I can gather) is the lab expansion of your own stem cells. Dr Wei is taking BMAC spun down in a centrifuge then injected via a needle back into your knee. Relatively speaking the procedure you have gone thru is isn't hugely different from a PRP injection, where blood is drawn and spun in a centrifuge and PRP is injected back into the knee? Am I incorrect in this assumption?

I am curious to know, if the procedure you have had is almost identical to PRP, why should it be so expensive with a $8000.00 price tab?

On another note, Dr Centeno has now published studies, on safety and efficacy of his procedures, links to which you can find on his website,

http://www.regenexx.com/about-regenexx/researched-and-effective-stem-cell-procedure/

On basis of your joint's condition improving, I do wish you all the best of good fortune! & Please keep us all informed as to how well your out come is.

JM

[karto]

Hey fellow sufferers lol I am new to this board but have been reading posts and am taking place in Dr Centeno's webinar this week. But, I was just curious if anyone knows how having cortisone in your system affects a stem cell extraction? My OS wants to give me one and i wouldn't mind having one but I'd rather speak to Centeno first because if I am a candidate for Regenexx I want to get started ASAP

[karto]

PS can anyone who went through Regenexx post their outcomes, especially including what category they were placed in? like, poor, fair, good, etc... thanks

i'm curious to know if people who were rated poor had good results

[Dr. Centeno]

We don't know who GJJ is either.  We have published the good and the bad at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19951252.  We believe we are one of the very few medical clinics offering stem cell therapy at this level who has taken this step of publishing the complications of >200 patients in a peer reviewed medical journal.  I am almost done with a 339 patient complications report that will hopefully be submitted for publication in another peer reviewed medical journal in the next few weeks.  It again will post all complaints reported about the procedure or that we pick up on periodic active surveys of our patients.  Both of these papers show that our procedure is dramtically safer than surgical alternatives, but it is not in any way shape or form risk free, as no medical procedure is risk free.  PRP, BMAC (same day stem cell procedures), micro fracture, ACI, MACI, meniscus transplants, knee replacements (partial or complete), all carry medical one on one patient risk.  In summary, Regenexx is a procedure that to date and after 5 years of observation and more than 1,000 procedures, has a better safety profile than surgery and it's risk profile is similar to other needle based alternatives (PRP, BMAC, SynVisc or other HA preps). 

[Godwin]

So, I was just going to sent in my consultation form and MRI but now I see the FDA has filed suit asking for a court order for Dr Centino to stop his Regenexx work.  What does this mean in the real world -- Is Dr Centino going to open up in China or New Zealand?

[men-at-arms]

I just got off the phone with someone from Regenxx in Colorado; she had called me back in Hong Kong to explain that the FDA ruling has only impacted for now Regenxx's procedure to expand and freeze storage the stem cells for later use. They are sorting that out legally with the FDA. In the meantime, Regenxx is still able to treat patients with same day extraction and injections. I was told that the effectiveness of the treatment remains the same. The cost of the injection per time will be $3000, and since the average is up to 3 times per patient -- the average total cost will be about $9000 but will be dependent case by case. This is to be compared to $8000 previously.

Having spoken to the rep. from Dr. Centeno's clinic -- I will be sending in my MRI and on-line patient form then my $200 fee once they are ready to review my case.

BTW -- I'm an expat American living & working in Hong Kong, so I actually have access to alternate stem cell treatment in East Asia. But I'm keeping all options open at this point.

Hope that helps~!

[rob8647932]

One large difference between the previous method and the new same day method is that with the same day method you have to do a bone marrow extraction EVERY TIME. In other words 3 vs. 1. However it is still a good option to the more invasive options.

[men-at-arms]

I understand the extraction is done under anesthesia. Would that be general or local ?

[WestPoint]

Surely this would affect the amount of cells reproduced...

[rob8647932]

I never had any anesthesia. He just numbs up the area a lot. There is not much pain.

[men-at-arms]

Numbing it up a lot ? Sounds like that's local anesthesia then. I'd imagine that if there were zero anesthesia at all -- having a needle stuck in all the to inner bone to extract the marrow -- would be quite painful to most people.

[slyguy1]

question for men-at arms......since you have access to healthcare over there in hong kong is the cost of most procedures like aci or maci any cheaper there compared to the US?

[men-at-arms]

Not in Hong Kong, but yes it is .. in Taiwan. ACI or modified ACI is performed in Taipei by Taiwan University Hospital which has developed a proprietary approach I think to do with the scaffolding. I did not dive into too much detail on researching ACI or modified ACI in Taiwan regardless of the cost because I was told by Doctors there that I was NOT a good candidate for ACI/MACI in that those procedures focused on rebuilding damaged articular cartilage, while the big damage in my right knee and partially in my left are all meniscus damage. That's my personal situation with ACI/MACI. Also, I did not get an exact quote for ACI surgery in Taiwan but was told by the OS I had asked about it that the surgery was not considered expensive. Despite economic prowess in Taiwan in recent decade, per cap income when compared to USA is still lower. If ACI for typical Taiwanese is considered affordable -- when compared to the cost of ACI Stateside (funny -- I also don't know what amount that is) is definitely going to be considered lower.

There is one surgery I know the cost to both in USA and in Taiwan and perhaps this may serve as a "price comparison model". If you are familiar with a new procedure called Lap-Band which is for weight control -- Lap Band surgery as I know in the States run 20K~30K. In Taiwan -- the cost when converted to USD is 6,000 Dollars. So, that's what .. about a third of the lower USA range.

BTW -- in recent years Taiwan has experienced a significant rise in "Medical Tourism" due to the exact reasons of high quality of medical service and competitively affordable costs of medical treatment.

So, thanks for the question -- it was valid and in my wheel house.

question for men-at arms......since you have access to healthcare over there in hong kong is the cost of most procedures like aci or maci any cheaper there compared to the US?

[slyguy1]

Thanks for the info....sounds like you are in good status having your cartlige intact. You have a greater chance of success....good luck