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Author Topic: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells  (Read 223939 times)

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Offline mccartjt

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #180 on: November 10, 2009, 04:43:22 PM »
Hi Everyone

I am now six injections of stem cells into my left knee. That will be my last visit to Dr Centeno for a while. However I did get a PRP injection yesterday to help convert the stem cells that were injected into my knee a week earlier into hyaline cartilage. Dr Centeno when asked suggested that I have a PRP inject into the knee a week after my stem cell re-inject, with a second inject of PRP in my knee two weeks later. I'll keep you all posted. Who knows I may yet have a third inject .. If you get MSC Mesemchymal Stem cells injected from Dr Centeno, it may be smart to get PRP after the stem cell re-inject procedure to continue to promote the cartilage growth.

Good luck to all of you.

JM



Offline mccartjt

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #181 on: December 08, 2009, 03:54:45 AM »
Hi Everyone

Its been a month since my last posting. I've had 2 PRP injections into the same knee where I had MSC stem cells injected in the last 4 weeks. Not much to say other than I 've been doing some swimming in the mean time and  been swimming somewhere between 3000 + 4500 yards a week to help promote the growth of cartilage in my knee. My knee is feeling okay but not as yet any major improvements.

However I have seen the following publication

http://tinyurl.com/yj4a3bz

On the national library of medicine. This study should help people make a judgment call on the safety and complications issue of the Regenexx procedure. No doubt there will be more studies comeing out from Dr Centeno in the future. I personally am pleased to see that this peer review study might help calm some of the naysayers of what Dr Centeno has been doing with MSCs. I wish him all the best..


 On another note my back which I injured in May is getting much better.  I got an injection of Platelet Lysate and Dexamethazone (steroid) as an epidural injection adjacent to my L5/S1 joint on October 23rd 2009. After about two weeks most of the sciatica pain appeared to disappear. After about 5 weeks the benefits of the tiny amounts of steroid did in fact wear off. However since the injection I've done lots of swimming and my back is feeling currently way way better. Right now I am unsure if I'll need any further help on my back. Only time will tell.


Good luck to you all

JM

Offline Lottiefox

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #182 on: December 08, 2009, 04:08:46 PM »
Hi everyone from the wet and cold UK!

This is a fascinating thread. A bit of background - I'm 40 years old, previously very active female into regular gym sessions, dance, trekking etc. Started having anterior left knee pain this year and it got steadily worse. Didn't respond to Physio, developed delightful crepitus on leg extensions, started to view stairs with horror (esepcially going down them carrying anything), generalised ache, pain, swelling etc etc all those hideous problems that come with a knee problem. Laid off impact activity after a summer of more outdoor type sprints and runs and took some NSAIDs....still no real relief. I'm not in screaming agony but I am restricted with walking for very long, can't pivot, certainly can't run...got an MRI about a month ago and it showed a small (not sure how big) osetochondral deficit in the medial femoral condyle and early degeneration of the cartilage behind the patella (a fair bit from the images as far as I can see). All fits with the pains and aches and noises. So, now its there in black and white!

Went to see an OS privately. Someone recommended as doing a lot of our UK footballers etc. Well, he might be good with a scalpel but he had the bedside manner of a serial killer. Looked at MRI, prodded my knee 3 times, got me to stand in front of him and announced I needed OATS on the femoral defect and ACI on the patella. Oh and get that bunion chopped off as well. All would be fine, yes it was major surgery but all very run of the mill, 12 months rehab and a leg splint and I'd be back to my normal life. If I preferred he could do some microfracture but that wouldn't last as long. Or he could just do a "wash out" but that might not help at all. Or I could do nothing and be crippled by OA sooner rather than later. 160 well spent - I wish I'd saved it and got my worry lines topped up with Botox.

Hmmmmmmmmmm........ ::)

So, here I am with a virgin knee with some areas of difficulty. My tendons and ligaments are all OK, my fat pad is inflamed but I guess thats a reaction to the rest of the trouble. I'm extremely interested in the Regenexx concept. I'm a big believer in the body working with itself to heal and whilst I'm not expecting new knees I'm not keen to submit to extreme surgery with dubious outcomes and a huge amount of possible pitfalls. Any thoughts on whether my type of problem could be helped? How would a non-USA person go about finding out more?

I'm so encouraged by some of the stories on this thread. I'm not jumping into any form of treatment at the moment, but this seems like a promising route that might, just might, bring better results than the russian roulette of MFX/ACI/OATS etc....

Thanks in advance

 :-*
Bilateral patella OA since 2009, no surgeries.
Euflexxa working well x3 to current
Right forefoot CRPS post fusion surgery 2011
Refusing to let the ailing parts stop me....

Offline mccartjt

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #183 on: December 11, 2009, 06:16:09 AM »
LottieFox

You bring up a very good point. If the only tool in your toolbag is a hammer then everything looks like a nail!. In much the same way if you were a trained surgeon, then every patient has an "Appointment" booked in your operating theatre!

There are some new procedures coming up, one is a variant of microfracture with mesemchymal stem cells (MSC s) that is practiced by Dr Khay in KLSMC http://www.klsmc.com/ & I've heard rumour that at the Steadman Hawkins clinic they are doing something similar. I am told that these results are coming out with "Hyaline like" cartilage, as opposed to fibrocartilage. There is also the European offices of Genzyme that are pushing MACI or matrix autologus chrondocyte implants, check out www.maci.com for more info.

For stem cells implants are available in Europe, at www.xcell.com however X-Cell don't expand the MSC's in a lab. Dr Centeno does expand the drawn cells in a lab and puts back millions of stem cells to work for you. When asked why he expands cells in a lab, he said that doing a BMAC -(Bone Marrow Aspirate Concentrate) with a bedside centrifuge, to get stem cells together meant - re-injecting a patient with sub-optimal amounts of stem cells back into the damaged joint and not getting a great result.

There is also this going on in the UK http://www2.hud.ac.uk/sas/comment/pab100409.php that is worth reading. What ever you choose good luck..


John M


Offline Lottiefox

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #184 on: December 11, 2009, 10:40:40 PM »
John,

Thanks very much for taking the time to reply. I've followed your responses to Regenexx with interest. I'm guessing the results are still going well for you?

I've been in touch with both X-Cell and Regenexx and am far more impressed with the latter. X-Cell are extremely keen to "sell" their product, and whilst I'm sure they do excellent work I feel more comfortable with the information, analysis, procedure and general approach that Regenexx seems to have. As you say, they use different methods that seem more firmly anchored in medicine and I like the conitnual improvement approach they advocate. Very early days with a lot to explore but I'm going to send my MRI and notes to Regenexx for their views. Its less money than 20 minutes with a scalpel happy UK surgeon! Given the current state of the pound, the treatment in the US works out at a very affordable rate (less than a private arthroscopy at the moment!!!) and even with flights to Denver its well within reach. I'm due a delayed honeymoon so perhaps Colarado might be in the offing in 2010!

Thanks again.

Lottie  :D
Bilateral patella OA since 2009, no surgeries.
Euflexxa working well x3 to current
Right forefoot CRPS post fusion surgery 2011
Refusing to let the ailing parts stop me....

Offline blues

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #185 on: January 08, 2010, 05:09:55 PM »
Lottie,

May of 2009 I was like you, researching my options (see previous post on this thread 07May09). Although my knee wasn't virgin, I was still looking into the Regenexx option. After doing more research and reading Dr. Centeno's comments, I realized that the cheapest, and maybe the most practical thing, a knee pain person can do is start with prolotherapy. I'm not trying to hijack this thread with prolo stuff, but my experience with prolo has been good and I may not need Regenexx.

With all the experienced folks who have gone through the Regenexx procedure, I'm willing to be corrected, but you may not need to go to the extreme expense and travel of Regenexx. If you look at this stem cell repair path, prolotherapy, followed by PRP, followed by Regenexx or its equivalent, then the logical starting point is prolo.

I live in central Texas and have easy access to both San Antonio and Austin prolo doctors. After researching the procedure for a few days and talking with every dr. within a 200 mile radius, I opted to go to the Center for Spine, Sports, and Physical Medicine in Tomball, TX to give prolo a try.

I won't go into the details here, as I think that info would be better on a prolo thread, but after 3 prolo injections and another scheduled in a couple of weeks, I am thrilled with the results. My acute pain, caused by a torn MCL responded almost immediately and my chronic knee pain from years of OA is now all but subsided to the point that I can get in much more pain-free exercise and my leg muscles are responding accordingly. Anyone wanting more details, feel free to PM me.

My point here is, do your homework. If it seems that prolo or PRP might help, then give them a try first. My logic was, and I think it was sound, if they don't work, you're not out much money. If they *do* work, you're still not out much money and your knee feels tons better.

Also, an FYI for others considering Regenexx, I have heard that the Regenexx folks may be looking to *franchise* the technology to other practicing prolo and PRP centers. If that happens, we'll all have better access to it.

I'll take this opportunity to thank all of you folks who have posted your experience with Regenexx. This board is a valuable learning tool.

Joe

Offline Lottiefox

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #186 on: January 08, 2010, 06:19:30 PM »
Hi Joe

Many thanks for your views and comments - very interesting. I have to say I am not as up to speed on the whole prolo concept as a stand alone treatment. Perhaps I need to do some more reading! I can say that my MRI images finally reached Regenexx yesterday and I'm hoping to have my telephone consultation with them in the next few days. I have plenty of questions to ask and clearly, they need to comment on whether my knee is a suitable candidate.

Great to hear that your knee has made such good progress,

All the best

Lottie  :)
Bilateral patella OA since 2009, no surgeries.
Euflexxa working well x3 to current
Right forefoot CRPS post fusion surgery 2011
Refusing to let the ailing parts stop me....

Offline mccartjt

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #187 on: January 10, 2010, 12:34:55 AM »
Joe

Dr Centeno & Dr Shultz @ the Regenexx clinic do actually believe in prolotherapy. I have had prolo from both of these doctors prior to getting stem cells injections. The prolo creates a microinjury from what I understand and that starts the articular healing process. The emphasis of prolo here, is that the Regenexx team use the prolo to get the joint sticky to more readily absorb/bond with your stem cells when they are injected two or more days later into your joint.

My orthopaedic surgeon however does not believe in prolo, and when I asked him, he would not even administer a prolotherapy injection! The problem with prolo (on its own) is whilst some doctors believe that it helps, prolo+ stem cells should consistantly give a better result. The stem cells here being the important part of having your own living cells re-injected into your knee on top of prolo to grow back (in my case the missing) cartilage.

It is also public knowledge that Regenexx procedure has been "Licensed" to Neostem Inc for procedures in China, and Stematix Inc. in So. America. So yes in time, I am confident there will be other doctors, implementing what Dr Centeno is doing in other parts of the US, in the not too distant future.

Joe just so you know torn ligaments do respond well to PRP, so if you get yourself a shot or two of your own PRP for the torn MCL that should help your outcome. Joe, I too believe in doing my own research. I had a orthopaedic surgeon that scheduled me for an operation on his operating table when prior to that scheduled surgery he didn't answer my questions, I didn't turn up for the surgery! Yup you have to do your own research!

Good luck to you all

John M

Offline rob wilson

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #188 on: January 13, 2010, 07:55:29 PM »
I have had 1 Regenexx in my left knee that helped my condition a little. It seems I have medium arthritis including 2 microfractures. My symptoms are pain, crunching, swelling, and stiffness. I have had numerous opinions from doing a total knee to just a diagnostic scope/scar tissue cleanout or I could wait and do more Regenexx. I am tired of not being able to walk the dog and want an answer. I will have the diagnostic scope on 1/29/10 and then the OS can determine how the cartilage looks (he says it is very difficult to determine cartilage quality on MRI). then we can determine if I need more invasive surgery. Another option before total knee might be http://www.arthrosurface.com/.

Do you think Regenexx or PRP 2-3 weeks after surgery would help in minimizing more scar tissue after surgery? Thanks
1997-Bilateral debridement
1999-Lt knee trochlea paste graft
2000-Rt knee trochlea paste graft
2000-Lt knee scar
2002-Lt knee ACI biopsy+plica
2002-Lt knee medial condyle abrasion+HGH
2002-Lt knee scar
2003-Rt knee trochlea abrasion+HGH
2005-Lt knee plica
2008 to present-Regenexx

Offline rob wilson

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #189 on: January 13, 2010, 07:56:23 PM »
I have had 1 Regenexx in my left knee that helped my condition a little. It seems I have medium arthritis including 2 microfractures. My symptoms are pain, crunching, swelling, and stiffness. I have had numerous opinions from doing a total knee to just a diagnostic scope/scar tissue cleanout or I could wait and do more Regenexx. I am tired of not being able to walk the dog and want an answer. I will have the diagnostic scope on 1/29/10 and then the OS can determine how the cartilage looks (he says it is very difficult to determine cartilage quality on MRI). then we can determine if I need more invasive surgery. Another option before total knee might be http://www.arthrosurface.com/.

Do you think Regenexx or PRP 2-3 weeks after surgery would help in minimizing more scar tissue after surgery? Thanks
1997-Bilateral debridement
1999-Lt knee trochlea paste graft
2000-Rt knee trochlea paste graft
2000-Lt knee scar
2002-Lt knee ACI biopsy+plica
2002-Lt knee medial condyle abrasion+HGH
2002-Lt knee scar
2003-Rt knee trochlea abrasion+HGH
2005-Lt knee plica
2008 to present-Regenexx

Offline Lottiefox

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #190 on: January 15, 2010, 11:55:27 AM »
Hi Rob

Sorry the knees have flared up again. I'm no expert but I know when I spoke with Dr Centeno he said they have worked with people in conjunction with surgery - e.g. using stem cell injections alongside procedures such as microfracture, so I guess that stem cells or PRP could well help with healing post any surgery you might have. Perhaps an email to Dr Centeno to clarify?

Good luck on the 29th, hope they can bring you some relief.

Lottie  :)
Bilateral patella OA since 2009, no surgeries.
Euflexxa working well x3 to current
Right forefoot CRPS post fusion surgery 2011
Refusing to let the ailing parts stop me....

Offline rob wilson

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #191 on: January 15, 2010, 02:52:49 PM »
Actually I have changed my approach. I am going to try more injections before I jump to a scope surgery. We shalll see if my wallet can handle it. I am not even convinced my problem is cartilage. It could be inflamed synovium. Either way the injections should help. Surgery should always be LAST resort. I almost died in a back surgery.
1997-Bilateral debridement
1999-Lt knee trochlea paste graft
2000-Rt knee trochlea paste graft
2000-Lt knee scar
2002-Lt knee ACI biopsy+plica
2002-Lt knee medial condyle abrasion+HGH
2002-Lt knee scar
2003-Rt knee trochlea abrasion+HGH
2005-Lt knee plica
2008 to present-Regenexx

Offline Lottiefox

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #192 on: January 15, 2010, 10:42:58 PM »
Well, I think I share your tendency to avoid surgery if at all possible. So, back to Regenexx? I may see you there!

Lottie  :)
Bilateral patella OA since 2009, no surgeries.
Euflexxa working well x3 to current
Right forefoot CRPS post fusion surgery 2011
Refusing to let the ailing parts stop me....

Offline rob wilson

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #193 on: January 16, 2010, 07:06:58 PM »
I have a new protocol with assistance from JM. 3-5 days before Regenexx I get prolotherapy to get the area inflamed for the stem cells. Then the Regenexx injected and then 2 weels after the Regenexx I get PRP to provide a nice environment to sustain the stem cells. If my money holds out I will try this until I get rid of this pain and inflamation whatever is causing it (arthritis or plica or both). If this does not work the last resort is a scope. However, my knee has had too much surgery.
1997-Bilateral debridement
1999-Lt knee trochlea paste graft
2000-Rt knee trochlea paste graft
2000-Lt knee scar
2002-Lt knee ACI biopsy+plica
2002-Lt knee medial condyle abrasion+HGH
2002-Lt knee scar
2003-Rt knee trochlea abrasion+HGH
2005-Lt knee plica
2008 to present-Regenexx

Offline rob8647932

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Re: Regenexx injections - Stem Cells
« Reply #194 on: February 11, 2010, 02:27:18 PM »
After 2 Regenexx and 3 PRP injections, I have gotten a little better but not enough to be out of pain or be able to walk without pain. I guess I will go ahead with the scope and hope it does not require any more microfracture surgery. However, I might try the Regenexx after surgery to increase its effectiveness.
Left knee - 1997 debridement, 1999 trochlea paste graft / microfracture), 2002 IAGH injections, 2005 plica and synovium removal, 2009 Regenexx injections
Right knee - 1997 debridement, 2000 trochlea paste graft, 2004 IAGH injections, 2008 Regenexx injections