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Author Topic: Torn ACL's & MCL's in BOTH knees!  (Read 4424 times)

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Offline horselover65

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Torn ACL's & MCL's in BOTH knees!
« on: September 21, 2007, 01:20:51 PM »
Hi everyone, I'm new to the Knee Guru and I'm looking for feedback on my recent injuries. 10 days ago I was kicked by a horse in the left knee. My left knee dislocated and both the ACL & MCL were torn completely. I also have a bone bruise from the dislocation. My right knee has a complete tear in the ACL and maybe  partial (the Dr's aren't sure if it's complete) tear in the MCL. I am scheduled for surgery next Thursday. My doctor has seen a lot of injuries and has done a lot of surgery but has NEVER seen these injuries in BOTH knees!! He and his partner are going to do the surgery together due to the extensive injuries and time it will take to repair. They will use allograft's since they don't want to give me any additional sites to heal from. My doctors feel fixing both knees at the same time is the way to go. I agree. I don't want to drag out recovery any longer than I have to and rather not go under general anesthesia 2X. While I wait for surgery it is a horrible feeling to have such instability in both knees!! I am doing some pre surgery PT to get my knees in the best shape I can prior to surgery. Has anyone ever heard of or had the same extent of injuries? I haven't searched the entire site to find out myself yet but plan to spend some time here. I sure don't have much else to do in my condition. It's aweful :( Please advise. Thanks
September 11th, 2007 kicked in the knee by a horse
September 27th, 2007 left knee surgery: ACL, MCL, posterior lateral corner repair
October 17th, 2007 right knee surgery scheduled

Offline Nettan

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Re: Torn ACL's & MCL's in BOTH knees!
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2007, 01:46:03 PM »
I am sorry to hear that you went out for this. The mainkey is when you get out of surgery to get a very good phys and good rehab and also let everything take the time that is necessery. Have you prepared so you can manage at home after surgery ?
I wish you the best of luck.
I have myself a nervinjury and RSD in left knee, a spinal damage and have had surgery 2 weeks ago on right knee. So I know how hard things are after when you have no leg really to rely on. If you have any questions in this with coping feel free ask.
Surgery 6 times left knee torn meniscus, RSDS,chondromalacia, nervdamage cause constant nervpain,chronic inflamm.
Spinaldamage wheeler 100%.
Right knee damaged aug-06, use brace surgery 4/9-07.LCL tear.

Offline Berta

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Re: Torn ACL's & MCL's in BOTH knees!
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2007, 04:31:46 PM »
sorry that I've got no words of wisdom about your knees, but I just wanted to say I feel for you, sounds like getting everything over and done with at once is a good call, it will be tough, but fingers crossed it gets you back in the saddle that much quicker.

Denny
6th Dec 2007 arthoscropy, major debridement and meniscus trimmed
Jan 08 2008 Arthritis grade 2/3 told to wait until TKR needed.
August 2010 Left knee arthroscopy

Offline horselover65

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Re: Torn ACL's & MCL's in BOTH knees!
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2007, 05:41:25 PM »
Thanks again. Forgive me , I'm still new at this forum and just learning how to surf around it. It is my goal to get back in the saddle ASAP! Not that any time would be  a good time for this injury but this is the worse possible time. I just started training for the upcoming Police Academy that I was (and still am!) hoping to get into in mid January. I've witnessed miracles first hand so I believe it's possible!! Bye the way, it wasn't any of my horses that kicked me!!
September 11th, 2007 kicked in the knee by a horse
September 27th, 2007 left knee surgery: ACL, MCL, posterior lateral corner repair
October 17th, 2007 right knee surgery scheduled

Offline Berta

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Re: Torn ACL's & MCL's in BOTH knees!
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2007, 07:26:19 PM »
Miracles DO happen, but I think you should be prepared to accept that it may not, January is either a long way a way, or just round the corner, depending on your view on life. With major damage, and lots of repair needed on those knees, it's close enough that you may not make it this time around.....................but knee problems to enforce the lessons of patience and forbearance on you, there's always next time.

Sorry but I'm natuarly nosey (as well as bad at spelling) so now I need to know how you got kicked, and how many horse you have etc, etc,

Denny
6th Dec 2007 arthoscropy, major debridement and meniscus trimmed
Jan 08 2008 Arthritis grade 2/3 told to wait until TKR needed.
August 2010 Left knee arthroscopy

Offline Audice

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Re: Torn ACL's & MCL's in BOTH knees!
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2007, 11:53:36 PM »
Regardless of whose horse kicked you, the extent of your injuries is unbelievable. Having been kicked by horses over the years you have all my sympathy. It's never a fun sort of injury. I wish you the best & hope to hear both surgeries went well..Ellie
April, 2005 - ACL rupture, medial meniscus tear within posterior horn to articular surface, abnormal signal within lateral meniscus, partial tear MCL, bone contusions tibia/fibula, Baker's cyst.
No repairs.

Offline horselover65

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Re: Torn ACL's & MCL's in BOTH knees!
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2007, 03:19:47 PM »
Thanks again! I have 3 horses-2 paint/quarter horses (one's 4 years old the other 16 yrs) and 1 Irish Draught X (7 years old). The paints were my husbands horses when we met. He's a Western rider, I ride English. Before this happened I was in the process of training the 4 year old paint and my Draught X. Now this is how the accident happened. I was attending a seminar at a farm where someone I know was temporarily keeping her horse. As soon as I arrived she was very excited to show me "Gracey." Well, she opened the stall door and me, my husband and the owner all stepped in to see her. I approached her carefully and was standing about at her withers with the other two towards her head. I wasn't in the stall for more than 30 seconds when the next thing I knew, I was across the stall and on the ground. It happened in a split second. The others were all still standing exactly where they were before she fired at me! I knew when I hit the ground I wasn't going to shake this off. The first words out of my mouth were " I'm [email protected]#*ed". I felt my left knee dislocate, I heard popping noises and felt pain like you couldn't imagine!! What actually happened, I was told, is that Gracey swung her hind end towards us, bumped me and fired a cow kick at me and she landed exactly back where she was standing all splayed out. The week following I've learned a lot about Gracey. Her owner describes her as being nervous and sensitive to smells and sounds and talked about how she will leap off all 4 legs while she rides if she's scared of something. I also found out she has a history of kicking other horses and the owner always makes excuses for why she kicked and doesn't reprimand her. She has 2 horses and her other horse is a kicker also. My 4 year old paint was kicked 3 days prior on a ride with her and she didn't even acknowledge the kick and once again no reprimand. I think it was irresponsible on her part to not warn me about these things. I would never have stepped into the stall had I known. I trusted her when she opened the stall. I've been around horses for 35 years and I always warn people about a horse that is potentially dangerous. I know even the most well manered horse can do anything at anytime but if you know your horse is a freak it is your responsibility to protect people that handle them and yourself. Too bad because this could have been avoided.
September 11th, 2007 kicked in the knee by a horse
September 27th, 2007 left knee surgery: ACL, MCL, posterior lateral corner repair
October 17th, 2007 right knee surgery scheduled

Offline Berta

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Re: Torn ACL's & MCL's in BOTH knees!
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2007, 06:16:10 AM »
I'm so sorry to hear that it was one of 'those' accidents, I'm picturing Gracey as a chestnut mare. I know what you mean on several things there, I can't understand people putting up with a kicker, and not trying to correct the problem, and especially not to warn people, thats just irresponsible.

Having said that working around horses is always a risky business, and you never know when something will happen.
6th Dec 2007 arthoscropy, major debridement and meniscus trimmed
Jan 08 2008 Arthritis grade 2/3 told to wait until TKR needed.
August 2010 Left knee arthroscopy

Offline horselover65

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Re: Torn ACL's & MCL's in BOTH knees!
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2007, 01:17:26 AM »
Yes being around and riding horses is risky. I've been fortunate to not have had any serious injuries up until now. Even this injury could have been worse. A lot of my horse friends  have been hurt this summer, it's been a bad summer!! Tell me about your relationship with horses. Are you a life long lover of horses like me? One of my reasons for pursueing a career in law enforcement is that we have a mounted division. My goal is to be placed in special operations and be a mounted police. Perfect career for me! A combination of my interest in law enforcement and my passion for horses!
3 day countdown until surgery! Ahhhhhhhh!
September 11th, 2007 kicked in the knee by a horse
September 27th, 2007 left knee surgery: ACL, MCL, posterior lateral corner repair
October 17th, 2007 right knee surgery scheduled

Offline Berta

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Re: Torn ACL's & MCL's in BOTH knees!
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2007, 03:13:30 AM »
OK, stop counting down to surgery, rather count to the turning point, from your present injured state, to a 'getting better' state. It's going to be a tough haul for you, but you have a great goal to work towards, so go for it. The biggest tip will probably make haste slowly, you'll have to work hard at your PT, but take care not to cause yourself more damage. You will probably find thos board a godsend, it's a great place to come and vent on those tough days, and people here understand better than your nearest and dearest.

If you don't make your January intake, would you have to wait a whole year before you can get in?

My relaitionship with horses..............well, if you've got time here it goes.

I was born in the UK, and my mum reckons my first word was horse. I rode from an early age, and worked with horses when I left school. It wasn't until I'd been married for a while that I was lucky enough to actually own my own horse. We owned a few, trading out as the families needs cahnged. Then I got converted from English to western riding, and felt like I'd come home. I ended up owning a fantastic 15.2 quarter horse gelding, a real gentleman of a horse, his companion was a 27 year old, western broke, 14.2 cob, who was supposed to be on real light work, just to keep him going. In fact he ran off with me reguarly, and wouldn't accept that he was ready for a quiet life ;D As husband was a farm manager I was lucky enough to be able to keep the horses at home, and built a stable right opposite my back door.

In 2000, after a whole series of events, the family found ourselves living in town, with no horses, and the stress of it all gave me a major breakdown, and by the time I got out of it I found myself not only an awful lot heavier, but also suffering from all sorts of nerves, and unfortunatley, horses made me nervous. Fast forward to 2005, and husband and I are in the really fortunate position of being able to move to Canada, and realise pur dream of farming on our own. One of the things I did was to buy a pair of Fjord mares, in foal toa quarter horse. The idea was that I could work with them and the youngsters while getting fitter, and maybe start riding again.

Unfortunatley, our first full farming year was really difficult, and there was so much to do, renovating a very run down farm, that I had very little time to do anything with the horses. This year was going to be my year for having more time to work with the guys, but I injured my knee last winter, and have had to wait until now to see an OS (Roll on Wednesday) I've been unable to do as much as I want, as any kind of twist or strain on the knee causes a lot of problems.

So I'm now at the stage that I have 2 mares, one who is meant to be broken, but throws an absolute fit when you put a bit in her mouth, the other who is sixteen, is Ok to handle, but unbroke and scared of her own shadow. The yearlings are beautiful, Max the gelding is very smart, and I've done quite a bit with him, the filly is more difficult.

I'm now not sure wether it's best just to give up, let them all go and stick to riding the quad, or to let all the girls go, and buy an older, been everywhere, seen everything gelding to keep him company.

Sorry that turned out to be an unloading session, but it will give you something to read while you are laid up. Here's a link to some pics of the youngsters, (also my brand new knee  x rays, ready for my OS visit)

http://s211.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/rm185western/
6th Dec 2007 arthoscropy, major debridement and meniscus trimmed
Jan 08 2008 Arthritis grade 2/3 told to wait until TKR needed.
August 2010 Left knee arthroscopy

Offline horselover65

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Re: Torn ACL's & MCL's in BOTH knees!
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2007, 05:05:00 PM »
Thank you rm185western for your  advice! I will look ahead to my recovery and goals! The next academy will be in July, they are every 6 months. Thank you for sharing your life with horses with me! And the pictures, your horses are beautiful! I had tears in my eyes while reading your story :D
I met with my second surgeon yesterday and he thoroughly explained my injuries. I actually have 3 damaged ligaments per knee. The 3rd is a tricky one (the fibular collateral ligament) and may require additional surgery down the road. It will all depend on what he finds when he goes in. He describes my injuries as "career ending injuries." That's sickening. He's now estimating me returning to work in 3 months, riding in 6 months, academy in 1 year if I'm even ever able to go. 1 1/2 yrs. total recovery to return to close to what I was before. To say the least, I was very upset when I left the office. He is going to put me on a post operative epidural for 2 days after surgery. Ever hear of this? He's also sending a CPM machine to my home and also the machine that ices/compresses knees. I still can't believe how much damage was caused by that kick! OMG!!! Please pray!!
Maria
September 11th, 2007 kicked in the knee by a horse
September 27th, 2007 left knee surgery: ACL, MCL, posterior lateral corner repair
October 17th, 2007 right knee surgery scheduled

Offline Berta

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Re: Torn ACL's & MCL's in BOTH knees!
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2007, 05:38:05 PM »
Maria,

I'm so sorry to  hear your prognosis, I can only imagine how devastated you were on hearing all that, and yes there is an awful lot of damage there. As ever there are lots f sides to this though, he needs to be cautious in his estimate of your future, no point in telling you that you will be dancing by thanksgiving, if it is not realistic. There is also the fact that until they actually get inside your knee, they can't be 100% about the extent of your injuries. You also have age on your side here, the younger you are the faster you heal, so that's a positive. The last point is that everyone recovers at different rates, and you wont know that until you are the other side of your op.

The epidural after surgery I've read about here, so seems to be a fairly normal protocol, make sure that you caht to him again before surgery to discuss pain control post op, if you haven't done that already, being brave is one thing, having a stack of pain meds on hand is the sensible thing, I'm sorry to say that you are facing a painful few months, no point in being a hero in the first few days. Ice will be your best friend for the next little while, it really helps, someone said the other day that RICE is the knee sufferes natural high, and she's so right.

A few other things to think about, what happened to you was a freak accident, annoying yes, preventable probably, but still a ffreak. I'm sure you've read around on the board and found people who have caused lots of damage just tripping in the street, or slipping on a wet kitchen floor, life is full of hidden mines, and it's a shame that you found one.

I'll be sending postive vibes your way, and as I say I'm incredibly nosey, so would love to hear from you as you go on. Are you going to start a post op diary? If you do you'll connect with people who will know excactly what you're going through, and will offer good advice, and more importatntly bucket loads of moral support. There are lots of riders lurking around, so they will understand what you are fighting to get back to. I was chatting for a while to a girl from the UK who was a competition rider, but got kicked and broke her leg, she is now back riding, and we werer celebrating the fact that she can rise to the trot again, it's starnge that things that we take for granted when we are well, are major achievemnets when we are recovering.

Good luck for your op, wish me luck for tomorrow, I will hopefully find out at last, what my problem is, and what we can do to fix it

DEnny
6th Dec 2007 arthoscropy, major debridement and meniscus trimmed
Jan 08 2008 Arthritis grade 2/3 told to wait until TKR needed.
August 2010 Left knee arthroscopy

Offline Alison 98

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Re: Torn ACL's & MCL's in BOTH knees!
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2007, 07:52:17 PM »
Hi Maria,

I thought i was unlucky being kicked by my friend's horse while clipping in Feb 07 but your injury sounds horrific. My left tibial plateau was shattered but it is healing really well. Am back riding even though OS said i wouldn't be able to and though it can be painful, it's worth it. Take each day as it comes, be positive, and let us know how the op went.

Alison

Offline RandB

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Re: Torn ACL's & MCL's in BOTH knees!
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2007, 08:21:16 PM »
Hi Maria -

I followed the thread over here from "bone breaks around the knee".  What you have sounds just as bad as bone breaks!  Good luck with your surgery.  I don't know if it is exactly the same thing, but when I came out of surgery my first memory after waking up was of them giving me spinal needles as a type of pain control, so I guess that was an epidural.  My post-op pain wasn't too severe, so I think it worked pretty well.  I didn't need a morphine drip like so many others after knee surgery.
 I have been involved with horses for over 40 years.  I have 3 out in our pasture right now.  It was my DOGS who did me in, believe it or not !!  We were walking them around the field, it was after dark, the 2 of them got running full speed, I guess didn't see me and I didn't see them until it was too late, and BAM, I was on the ground with a broken knee.  So sorry to hear what happened to you.  I hope the horse's owner feels properly bad about what her horse did to you!  She had better start warning people that horse is a kicker.  She should also thank her lucky stars if you decide not to sue her for your losses.  In today's world, that is what many people would do. 
  These injuries are quite a journey.  As others have said, your doctors will not be able to give you an exact time frame for healing, everyone seems to recover at their own pace.  When it comes time for physical therapy, give it your all, and talk to your therapists about your goals for recovery.  They will try to help you as much as possible. Again, best wishes, I will look forward to reading about how your surgery comes out.
Type VI Bicondylar tibial plateau fracture 2/28/06
Surgery-L plate and 8 screws, 3/7/06
4 days in hospital
13 days at in-house rehab.
6 mos. PT
Was NWB in wheelchair 6 weeks
PWB 20 lbs only, 4 weeks, on walker
WBAT since then, walker to crutches to cane
walking OK now, stairs still difficult

Offline Berta

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Re: Torn ACL's & MCL's in BOTH knees!
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2007, 02:26:48 AM »
Sorry guys, I need to share something, and looks like we are all horse people. Had a shock toaday, our old mare has been a bit quiet all day, but nothing out of the normal. This afternoon we put a big round bale of hay put for them, as they were getting short of grazing. As normal we rolled it out aways for them, so everyone could get round it without fighting.

We went off to check the cows, did a little fencing, came back about half an hour later, and she was laying on the rolled out bale. Things didn't look right, so went over and found her dead. She had a mouthful of hay, and there is no sign of an thrashing or pawing, it looks like she just laid down and went. She was only 16/17 which should be no age for a Fjord.

I've never lost a horse at home like this, I'm suprised that the others aren't at all agitated. they are quite happily eating the hay. Anyone got any idea what could take her so quickly?
6th Dec 2007 arthoscropy, major debridement and meniscus trimmed
Jan 08 2008 Arthritis grade 2/3 told to wait until TKR needed.
August 2010 Left knee arthroscopy















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