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Author Topic: How many scar tissue success stories are there really?  (Read 10566 times)

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Offline cudos

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How many scar tissue success stories are there really?
« on: July 28, 2007, 10:18:55 PM »
I would like to hear from those who have been at the brink so to speak when dealing scar tissue issues. How many people on this forum ever really report back that they are back to 100 % after a long battle with arthrofibrosis. I suppose many people who have beat it just fade away and we never hear about it. Are there any members still here that have battled and won the scar tissue war.

Cheers

Offline Shine

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Re: How many scar tissue success stories are there really?
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2007, 11:06:47 PM »
Check out stuggling to get to 65 degrees and you will see 4 success stories.

Offline TIBBAR

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Re: How many scar tissue success stories are there really?
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2007, 11:20:13 PM »
Cudos
 I am one of those 4 on that string. We all had  a MUA some monthe ago. We are now talking someone through it right now. His is Monday. Go back some pages and we all have told our story. NONE of us are at 100% but all of us say it is the best thing we have ever done in KNEE LAND. There is ups and downs but if you take the time to peruse through some of our posts you will see how much it has helped with ROM and pain relief. Go there and ask questions we will b emore than happy to answer them. We will answer with our own experiences not with the eyes of a OS. Get a good one of these you can trust and come see us in KNEE LAND!!!!
                       Carol

Offline Shine

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Re: How many scar tissue success stories are there really?
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2007, 11:22:37 PM »
Carol: Hugs to you! I love ya! I am so glad we are friends. -Seth

Offline Jaci

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Re: How many scar tissue success stories are there really?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2007, 12:08:31 AM »
I think it's really important to qualify what you mean by success. For instance do you mean full ROM, return to full function, or whatever. Also, it's important to look at time frame. There have been many others in the past who had MUA and touted it's success early post-op only to have more problems show up a few weeks later. One of the issues with MUA especially if it is not done fairly early is that there is such a large amount of scar tissue present that all MUA does is redistribute it and it glombs back together weeks later. So when you read peoples success stories you want to know how soon was the MUA done and what was there original surgery for, what was their range pre-MUA, what were their pre-op goals and were those goals achieved.

Dr. Noyes talks about that in the tutorial-- scar tissue is light and wispy early in it's formation, but the longer it stays in the knee the tougher it becomes. Also, there are situations where MUA is not appropriate and it is preferrable to remove scar tissue during arthroscopic surgery-- a procedure called lysis of adhesions (LOA).

Plus, TKR is a unique situation. OS are hesitant to perform surgery because of the risk of infection-- the consequences of infection in a person with a TKR are far more complicated than someone who has had other procedures. Thus doctors may perform MUA far later than it should be done for other kinds of issues.

Finally, I am not minimizing the success of Carol, Seth, and others. I happy that things have gone well for you. Having said that, a search of all the scar tissue posts on the boards wiould probably show that there are just as many failures of MUA as their are success.

I think the most imporatnt thing for anyone facing arthrofibrosis is to learn as much as you can about the condition. Ask your OS lots of questions and make sure he has a solid plan for post-op rehab, followup, and intervention. Get another opinion if what your OS tells you is inconsistent with what you've learned in your research.

Best wishes.

Jaci


« Last Edit: July 29, 2007, 07:10:29 PM by Jaci »
10/03 Twist injury
12/03 Menisectomy- tears ACL, MCL, & LCL missed by OS
Arthrofibrosis ROM 38-68
3/04- 4/08 Multiple scar tissue procedures:
6 scopes w/LOA, AIR, LR, chondroplasty, synovectomy, bone spur & plica removal
3 insufflations, many injections
Chronic AF, patella infera, IPCS

Offline TIBBAR

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Re: How many scar tissue success stories are there really?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2007, 12:54:26 AM »
Thanks Jaci
I am greatful that you are on this forum. I have learned a wealth of info. from you and you are always right on the money. Cudos was just looking for some success stories and the four of us have done pretty well. We all had prettly bad total ROM going into it but the other three have flexion up to 150 now. I came out with the lest but I shutter to think what I would be doing now without it. PT says I probablly started right after the TKR"S.  We are all about 4 months Out of MUA now. So, as far as getting ROM back I guess you woild call the four of us a success.  We are still rehabbin but none of the four of us lost any flexion or had any MUA mishaps.  Thanks for helping all of us get a better grip on our knees.     CAROL
« Last Edit: July 29, 2007, 03:25:13 PM by lafalot »

Offline Jakem

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Re: How many scar tissue success stories are there really?
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2007, 04:33:42 PM »
Scar tissue is a horrific disease and very difficult to win.  Most people have very limited success due to the fact that 95% of doctors and PTs are ignorant on how to treat it. 

I have been reading these boards for years.  I would say most people are unsuccessful.  However, there have been some success stores.

Lori was a complete success, however it took her 3 years after her LOA to get to that point.  Her story is documented here also.

I was very successful but not fully.  My rehab is documented in excruciating detail on these boards.  It took me 2 years after my LOA to get there however.

KnickNack has been very successful.  It took him multiple surgeries and literally years to get there.  His story is not documented well as he never kept a log.

There have been others with limited success.

Most however have not been successful and have had multiple surgeries and are perpetually in rehab or recovery or planning their next surgery.


Offline Jaci

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Re: How many scar tissue success stories are there really?
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2007, 06:46:13 PM »
Here's a link to Lynn's (tri-sport) very inspiring success story. She definitely qualifies as someone who came back (if not 100% pretty darn close) after a long battle with arthrofibrosis.


http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEtalk/index.php?topic=27433.0


Jaci


PS-- If you click her user name, you can find her history through her old posts.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2007, 09:29:38 PM by Jaci »
10/03 Twist injury
12/03 Menisectomy- tears ACL, MCL, & LCL missed by OS
Arthrofibrosis ROM 38-68
3/04- 4/08 Multiple scar tissue procedures:
6 scopes w/LOA, AIR, LR, chondroplasty, synovectomy, bone spur & plica removal
3 insufflations, many injections
Chronic AF, patella infera, IPCS

Offline cudos

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Re: How many scar tissue success stories are there really?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2007, 11:56:25 PM »
Jakem I appreciate your input as well as all the others of course. However I must say that I hope that I am NOT one of the many who lose the battle against scar tissue. Jaci thank-you for you subsequent and well timed post. I would MUCH rather beleive I will prevail with hard work and time.

Thank-You

Offline Shine

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Re: How many scar tissue success stories are there really?
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2007, 01:02:53 AM »
Cudos,
If you don't mind me asking what is your knee situation? If you don't want to answer I understand. Good luck with everything and I hope your recovery goes well! -Seth

Offline cudos

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Re: How many scar tissue success stories are there really?
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2007, 01:43:15 AM »
sgandhi hello,

I tore my acl 10 years ago playing football, meniscus tear as well.  I did not have surgery at the time and just let time take its course. I never played sports again but did become an avid runner. About a year ago I tore some cartilage in the same knee just by kneeling down. It became very bothersome and I knew it had to be fixed. It was recommended to me by a very well respected OS (local) that I have my acl fixed at the same time.

To make a long story short I had acl (patella) and cartilage repaired. That was 9 weeks ago. I came out of surgery with a bleed that would not stop. The nursing staff noticed and suggested a drain after they couldn't stem the bleeding. They contacted my OS who did not come down to look and just told them to put on compression bandages and send me home in a compression brace (not the don joy I was suppose to leave in) I was instructed to just keep it elevated and compressed to stop the bleeding. That took 2.5 days.

I knew I was behind in my rehab and ROM, I saw my OS at 8 weeks and said I had developed scar tissue. My ROM is 5 degrees extension and 85-90 flexion.  He has given 6 weeks to show continued improvement or he is going to perform MUA. At the rate my ROM is improving (nil) I am a little nervous to say the least. I am pissed that I found out later only from this forum that bleeding inside the knee is a major contributor to scar tissue. Its as if I was doomed to have scar tissue and my OS should have known that! and maybe tried to stop  and drain the bood and ensure that I then got moving.

I know 9 weeks is still relatively early but my knee feels really brutal and the PT I've had to this point has not helped. I just feel I was an afterthought with my OS and I don't want to waste any valuable time.


Cheers

Offline Jaci

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Re: How many scar tissue success stories are there really?
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2007, 02:16:15 AM »
 Greetings,

One of the challenges of being a veteran of the battle is to strike the balance between giving people hope and giving them false hope. Or scaring the heck out of them.

Not that he needs me to come to his aid-- I've always found Jakem to be a straight shooter. The detailed plan that he developed for his post-op care is very impressive. He's one of the few people on this board who went through surgeries and so forth without the benefit of treatment by one of the arthrofibrosis 'specialists' that are often mentioned on this board.

Jake's story was one of the first that came to my mind when Cudos asked for success stories of those who have been to the brink and back. I also thought of Laurie and Lynn.

Cudos,

My initial post-op story pretty much mirrors yours. Blood in the joint, huge-massive swelling , severe inflammation-- I would melt through 3 large gel packs in 20 minutes of icing, 4 weeks post-op ROM was 38-68 that's 30 degrees total ROM, and my bozo OS kept telling me nothing was wrong, and that I just needed to 'pound it out at the gym' and that I would be able to bend me knee if I wasn't so tense!!!! What an idiot!

Anyway, I still remember the exact day that I found KneeGeeks. The site was quite a bit different then-- all the great tutorials, literature reviews and so on did not exist at that time. But the bulletin board was a godsend. There were many stories of people who were going through the same thing. I was so releived to find them and start to understand exactly what was going on with my knee. I started at the very first topic on arthrofibrosis and worked my way forward from there. And I started searching medical journals using PubMed and similar sites. I think I've read just about every medical journal article on the topic from 1982 to the present. KNEEguru has made it so much easier for everyone by providing the tutorial written by one of the few recognized experts along with the literature review and clinical case book.

Hang in there, Cudos. There's lots of conflicting info out there so KNEEguru's info is an excellant centering device.

Best wishes,

Jaci


« Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 02:25:48 AM by Jaci »
10/03 Twist injury
12/03 Menisectomy- tears ACL, MCL, & LCL missed by OS
Arthrofibrosis ROM 38-68
3/04- 4/08 Multiple scar tissue procedures:
6 scopes w/LOA, AIR, LR, chondroplasty, synovectomy, bone spur & plica removal
3 insufflations, many injections
Chronic AF, patella infera, IPCS

Offline JaneB

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Re: How many scar tissue success stories are there really?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2007, 07:32:37 PM »
Hi,
I consider my case a "mostly" success story.  You're welcome to review my posts; I started reading this board in July 2004 about 4 months after an ACL repair which left me in alot of pain and with limited ROM.  I eventually followed suggestions from this board, did research, and found an AF specialist. In the meantime the original OS who did the repair said I was making good progress and should just continue working hard in PT!! That delayed the process of moving in the right direction...but I finally realized I couldn't live the way I was, unable to do anything I enjoyed and limping around in pain. 

 I am 100% better than I was after the first surgery (a mess). 

I would say that I have about  90% function now.  I have full ROM (150 flexion, - 4 extension) and I can ski again, ride horses, and walk normally.  I'd say 90% rather than 100% because I do have stiffness in the a.m., some minor pain at times, and am alot more careful about my activities than I was before.  My knee doesn't feel quite "right".

But I only had one surgery; this was nine months after the first surgery; I do have a chondral defect that may be a problem in the future.  I wish I had acted sooner but it took a while for me to figure out what was going on and what to do about it.

Perhaps I should write up my success story if there's a need.

This board was a lifesaver for me.  Best of luck to you in your saga.

JaneB
ACL repair 3/04
arthrofibrosis developed ROM 125/-10
LOA \anterior interval release/chondroplasty 12/04

Offline cudos

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Re: How many scar tissue success stories are there really?
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2007, 07:36:46 PM »
Thanks Jane, your story is encouraging  :), Hopefull I end up there as well.

Cheers

Offline pak

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Re: How many scar tissue success stories are there really?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2007, 05:22:05 PM »
As has been said already, success depends on the problem and the symptoms prior to surgery.  After multiple knee surgeries and one major surgery last August (HTO/cartilage transplant) my ROM was about 13 degrees extension and only 85 degrees flexion.  That changed little after the same OS did a scar tissue procedure.  Dr. Shelbourne performed a scar tissue procedure mid-June and I have maintained post-surgery extension while SLOWLY increasing flexion (95-100 degrees now).  I have had some setbacks, but feel confident about the final results.  Is this a success story - so far I'd say it's a good possibility, but I think my success is also based on the extent of the scar tissue problem when Dr. S went into it (Grade 4).  If I can maintain the extension and get to maybe 110 or even 120 with flexion and be relatively pain free - I'll be ecstatic.

Arthrofibrosis is a major problem that many OS's (even leading Drs)and PT's want patients to "push through."  Success stories may not be realized for some time after surgery or treatment, but I think there are success stories on this website and there are Dr's that have proven methods for dealing with arthrofibrosis.
scope '97
scope '03
microfracture '04
scope '06
HTO/allograft '06
scar tissue scope '06
scar tissue scope '07
scar tissue scope, torn meniscus, bone spurs '11
scar tissue scope, torn meniscus, bone spurs, bone bruise '12















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