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Author Topic: Why does it hurt on top of patella?! Never had pain in that spot before...  (Read 4617 times)

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Offline ChrisAngel

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Twisted my right knee about 2,5 weeks ago. It was more peaceful for a while, but then apparently got irritated again and is hurting. Here's the original topic: http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEtalk/index.php?topic=37505.msg299497#msg299497

It's different from the everyday-pain, but there has not been any sights of swelling or discoloring. Just warm knee at times, when it hurts bad. From the outside it looks just like any other knee. It makes a LOUD crunching noise, when bent or straghtened and the crunching HURTS! Crunching started, when I twisted it.

I figured it could be a bit like a twisted ankle (which I've had a few times, they never crunched, though), to what doctors don't really do anything else than tell u to rest, ice and take anti-inflammatories. Saw a dow about a different matter a week ago, but at the moment knee was not hurting that much (I could actually walk pretty well with 1 crutch only), so it didn't occur me to mention it then.

Now I'm thinking if I should see a doc about this, if it's no any better, say, in a week or so. In a week am going to the city for my allergy tests. Next week on wednesday, so it would be possible to go see a doc in health center (allergy tests take place in different city). I'm currently at our summer cabin with my parents, so not able to leave here on my own (can't drive with my hurt feet and shoulders) before next week. I know I maybe should have seen a doc by now already (my folks say it's silly because to them this does not seem any different from a twisted ankle-in which I beg to differ!), but since there's so MUCH stuff going on with my feet and whole body, it's difficult to tell which pain is which. Just this pain on top of patella is new. Never had pain in that very spot before.

My work contract in the parliament ended 2 weeks ago. (Got into rehabilitation, that starts in September. Dunno what they can do, but maybe will get some useful tips. Until then, am on sickleave.) Last 4 years been using my work health and been able to go to the private hospital all my current pain records are in. Now must go to our public health center (can't afford anything else now), where we don't have a family doctor at the moment. If u want to see a doc on the same day, u go wait in line for what might be hours with no idea what doc is in duty that day. There is no common ground to draw conclusions from, which makes the idea of seeing a doc about this difficult. They don't know I've had 2 operations within these 4 years or anything else, which is difficult cuz within these 4 years I've been in more pain than ever before in my life.

My dilemma is, that if I saw a doc about this, what exactly would he/she be able to do? Pain killers I take on regular basis, icing I do every day, then rest. What is left? Would doc just tell me it's most likely because of my kneehistory it hurts the way it hurts when I twisted it? MRI's of knees were taken a year ago (work health paid for those, could never afford them on my own). I doubt there's anything new doc could say. But, next week Wednesday (today it's Wednesday so it's one week exactly) I will go to wait in line in the health center if I feel I want to see a doc. Could get a peace of mind, if nothing else. Have never seen a doc about a twisted ankle, since those heal in time, but this is different. The knee CRUNCHES loudly when I bend or straighten it and the crunching HURTS! :'(

Yesterday and today the twisted knee has been hurting on TOP of patella. Any idea what might be causing this?! I've never had pain in that spot before, but now it stings SO bad...like someone is brushing it with medal spikes...freaking out in here...!! :'( :'( :'(

Chris
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« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 01:42:30 PM by ChrisAngel »
31 young :)
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Offline Nettan

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The only thing you can do is go get the knee checked. I know you have had problems for long, though this last twisting injury doesn't have to mean that you have new damages. The old knee can act up out of this. That is a big problem I also have with my painproblems in lefty. That I can't build muscles enough to support my knee. And every little twisting injury makes the pain get worse. Bracing is one thing that might help you avoid this. Though braces makes tougher for you to build the natural muscles that can held the knee in right position. So not easy. I hope the rehabilitation you start with in September will be a success for you. Probably that will be both tough and painful, but if you manage get through and get going, I am sure that the knees will function better.
Surgery 6 times left knee torn meniscus, RSDS,chondromalacia, nervdamage cause constant nervpain,chronic inflamm.
Spinaldamage wheeler 100%.
Right knee damaged aug-06, use brace surgery 4/9-07.LCL tear.

Offline ChrisAngel

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Thanks, Nettan! How do you manage being always everywhere at once, helping and encouraging us all, though going through so much urself? I have said this many times, but I truely admire you. To help so many like u always do, is worth so much there is not enough words to describe that. Feel sorry for always whining so much myself...but guess people here are used to that, when we all go through rough periods.

I decided to go see a doc next week, if knee is not getting better. Sure, they don't know my case and don't know my records, but theyr'e doctors. At least they can assume something. Waiting in line at the health center is not fun, as I believe everyone done it knows (though health systems vary in between countries). I always feel sorry for the little children having to wait for so long. They are having ear pain or something, crying and tired, not understanding why they have to wait hours. It's heartbreaking. Wish they had more resources so those kids could be taken in sooner. Our health center has suffered from low resources for the past 10 years (and I've been going there the past 20 years we've lived there). There is just too few doctors there! That is why countless of people don't have a regular doctor. They end up seeing whoever is available and having to wait for getting an appointment for weeks in the worst cases. That is why I often rather go wait in line for the day, than wait weeks and weeks before seeing a doc!

Waiting in health centers can be nerve wracking. Having to sit in the waiting area for hours (in the most unergonomic chairs and benches), not knowing at all if the doc u end up seeing is any good or not. I have nothing against foreign doctors, but it makes a big problem, when the doctor does not speak ur language in an understandable way.

Building muscles is difficult, when every new thing only makes it more painful. Have not been in rehabilitation before, so don't know yet what is going to come. I wish it would bring some tools to manage everyday life. Will tell about it here then, that is for sure! My rehabilitation takes place September 10th-21st. 12 days I will live there in the clinic. Later (next year assumingly) there is some follow up for 3-4 days or so, but that I don't yet know the date of.

Thanks for pointint out the bracing. Good idea. Will see what I could do about it. Maybe they can give advice on that at the clinic then.

WINDY weather today here at cabin. Waves on the lake almost swallow our doc beneath them! Mom is out washing the dishes (dad warmed some water earlier today in the sauna) and wearing one of my winter shirts to keep her warm in the cold breeze! No worries about the bugs today..!

Chris
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31 young :)
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Offline supersquiggly

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Hi
I get a crunching, grinding, weird feeling in my knee too.  Then it goes all wobbly and unstable.  And it feels like its at the top or directly under the patella.  The reason I bring it up is because mine started with a twisted knee too.  Actually, I sprained my MCL twice in 5 months.  The 2nd time I sprained it was in May and instead of getting better in the same time frame as the first one it started to do the crunching, grinding, wobbly, ouch thing. My knee didn't swell or look noticeably different (except maybe a little if you look at it the right way, cause I'm starting to obsess).  Anyway, both my PT and GP said patellofemoral pain syndrome.  Patellofemoral pain syndrome is doctor talk for "so your kneecap hurts" because something is irritating it.  No kidding right.   In my case they said it was because of frequent injuries to the same side of my knee.  The muscles/tendons.ligaments are stronger on one side than the other and it is causing my kneecap to sublux (partially dislocate).  Therefore the pain and inflammation in the kneecap where none had previously existed.  Maybe something similar is happening to you.  There are other causes for patellofemoral pain. It could be scar tissue or something loose in the knee cap or it could be something else entirely.
Anyway, it is treatable. 
So I don't know if I helped you any.  Ice, quad strengthening, leg extensions.  Bracing helped me a lot.  Try one of those with the hole for the patella.  (it doesn't hurt as much if it doesn't move and it helped me walk around)
Good Luck
Kim
 

Offline ChrisAngel

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Hi Kim! Thanks so much for sharing ur experiences, that indeed helped a lot! Sounds pretty similar to the symptoms I have. I see we are the same age :D Sorry to hear u've got so much ouchy things going on in ur knee, too  :-\

It makes sense in all ways, that already injured knee at times "develops" new pain spots and symptoms, when the knee is irritated+injured+hurt already. (What does MCL stand for? Yet unfamiliar with the term) Bracing does sound good of an idea. When I was younger, I had these stretchy elastic "tube" knee supporters. Those were the most uncomfortable ones, they kept rolleing/bunching down, not staying in place. Those are the only kind of ones I have used and in between there was a time I didn't need supporters. Until 2004 happened, it was downhill again...

I'm going into (my 1st ever) rehabilitation in September, maybe they could recommend a brace(s) for me.

Going to the city next week (now at our cabin) and seeing a doc if knee still bothers me. Thanks so much u both!

Chris
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31 young :)
RemovePlica
-L 12/98+R 9/99
RemoveScartissue
-L&R 4/04
RemovePlica&scartissue
-L 8/06 ->R postponed for now (need to find a new surgeon..*sigh*)
*Fibromyalgia+CPS+Acid Reflux+Tietze's syndrome+CFS+depression*

Offline supersquiggly

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Hey Chris

Glad it helped.  When I was talking to my PT about a week ago I had asked him if it was normal to have problems like this.  He said "yes and no" basically if I was going to heal properly it would have healed by now but if its not, then this is the next thing that would be expected to happen.  I'm going the right way down the wrong road. I guess its a common problem.  He gave me different exercises to try to bring balance to the forces pulling on my knee.  He also taught me how to tape my knee.  I was also prescribed orthothics (custom insoles) but they cost $300 and my health plan only pays for $200 and I'd have to come up with all the money all up front.  So it'll be a while before I try that.  The pain level varies day to day, activity to activity.  Ice has become my best friend. 

You asked what MCL meant so here's a short lesson about ligaments.  There are 4 ligaments in the knee.  The anterior cruicate ligament (ACL) and the posterior cruciate ligament (PCL) together keep your thigh bone from sliding too far forward or too far backward from the top of your shin bone.   The medial collateral ligament (MCL) and the lateral collateral ligament (LCL) keep your thigh bone from sliding to far left or right from the top of the shin bone.  The medial is on the inner side of the knee, the lateral is the outer side of the knee.  So I sprained my MCL in a slip and fall.  When I fell, my lower leg bent outwards. 

Anyway, if you are going to a doctor I'd mention it, even if it doesn't hurt at the time.  There may not be much the doctor will do but at least you added it to the list of problems.  Physio does more for me than the doctor.  But I'd definitely mention it when going for rehabilitation. 

I got my brace over-the-counter at the local drug store.  I don't wear it all the time, only when I need to.  I like the ones with adjustable straps, they stay in place better.  I've tried to stretchy tube ones and I agree that they don't stay in place and don't work as well.  Braces are great but be careful about getting dependent on them.

Anyway, that's what works for me.  I hope it works for you.  I hope I'm not telling you to do something that'll make it worse.

Good Luck
Kim

Offline ChrisAngel

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Ice has become my best friend. 

Mine too - big yeah for ice!! :-*

" I said brr, it's cold in here,
must be some KneeGeeks in the athmosphere.
I said brr, it's cold in here,
must be some KneeGeeks in the athmospere...!"

Hehe...been watching "Bring It On" way too many times..*grin* ;D

Hey Kim! Thanks for breaking the MCL down for me. New educations bout knees are always good  ;) And thanks for sharing ur stories with me. It sucks having bad legs, and that there's no turning back time.

I got my brace over-the-counter at the local drug store.  I don't wear it all the time, only when I need to.  I like the ones with adjustable straps, they stay in place better.  I've tried to stretchy tube ones and I agree that they don't stay in place and don't work as well.

I got mine from a local pharmacy, where they sell that kind of supporters for knees, ankles, thighs, elbows, wrists...etc. Had my first operations in 1998 and 1999. Used them pretty much on a daily basis until 2003. That was the best year I've had in like a decade. My health blossomed and I really was getting better. Until 2004 happened...and everything came rushing back....flooding downhill. Hadn't been but worse since then..

Braces are great but be careful about getting dependent on them.

I agree. I got too dependent of them years ago. I didn't wear my supporters anymore after my recent operations in 2004 and 2006 (righty is still waiting for it's turn - dunno when, cuz the lefty has to be much better until we can do the righty). Well, the not-staying-in-place-thing is one major downside. But somehow...using them again would have meant going back for me. Even if it would have been good to use them in some points...I just didn't want to. Sounds maybe ridiculous, that is why I didn't feel comfortable mentioning it right away. But u seemed to share my fear of getting too dependent on them.

Well, I did use them some times after my most recent operation in august 2006 to get to the doctor's. I had so much fluid within my knee, that had to go get it drained. My first ever time getting my knee drained. It hurt to put it down, the gravity pulled those fluids rushing down my leg - PAINFUL! The big elastic bandages I got became home with, weren't tight enough. So had to put 2 stretchy tubes to my operated leg to be able to stand up.

Those tubes were so uncomfy to wear, that this time I didn't use them long either. It felt it would have been like going backwards. Weird, odd, I know. That's just how it felt. But nowadays I've started to think that maybe I should get some bracing after all. Dunno how to afford them, though...Will discuss that in rehab then. Maybe they'd have some affordable solutions.

Oh, and about the orthothics (custom insoles). I have those. Got them some years ago, because I had plantar faschitis on the bottoms of my feet. They hurt and the arches of my feet had lowered when I started to gain weight some years ago. They were expensive! That time I was still younger and my parents paid for those.

They are now at least 7 years old and I still use them. Should get new ones already I know, but have no way to afford them. They cost about € 140 at the time (the time it cost 800 Finnish Marks, that is my estimate conversion in euros), which is about $ 195. But it's been almost a decade, so have no idea what they'd cost now...

I use mine pretty much around the year when I need to. My winter shoes are one size too big, so that the insoles fit in there. Have one worn out pair of summer sneakers spacey enough for the insoles, too. They are really good, but I hope so much I could afford to have new pair made. Maybe some day. If you find the money sometime too, I'm really happy, cuz have personally experienced the relief they can bring.

* * *
Today we did a little car trip with my mom and dad. Cloudy and rainy day, so it was fun to do a little road-tripping. We had lunch at a diner, listened to some really bad music my parents seem to love...memories from their youth, you see... ;D

Knees are tired, but ice is the good happy stuff. 2 icebags cold from the fridge, a glass of lemonade and something to read. Got lots of stuffed animals here to keep me company. Wheeh..will show ya a couple of them...feeling childish today ;)

Here is my dear, dear 18 years old soft toy horsie very much under the covers..! She has been living at our cabin for the last 15 years or so. I got her from my dad when I was 8 years old. Horsie came from München, where dad was on a business trip. Her name is Star. She was cold so I tucked her in all cozy! Cute to the top...!!*grin*


Here are 3 of my small Mooeys, outing in the porch. The one in the middle is the oldest, got her from a flea market in Spain 1998. 9 years old is she :D My mom knitted her the coat she is wearing. For winter she has one like that in blue, without the hood.


Now time to dig in the latest issue of Cosmo...!

Chris
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« Last Edit: July 20, 2007, 04:13:46 PM by ChrisAngel »
31 young :)
RemovePlica
-L 12/98+R 9/99
RemoveScartissue
-L&R 4/04
RemovePlica&scartissue
-L 8/06 ->R postponed for now (need to find a new surgeon..*sigh*)
*Fibromyalgia+CPS+Acid Reflux+Tietze's syndrome+CFS+depression*

Offline supersquiggly

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Hey

I have a thing for stuffed toys too.  I have this great teddy bear named Benjamin.  I used to fill my bed with them until I got married.  My hubby didn't want to share the bed with them. :(  I think he was jealous that I'd spend more time cuddling with them than him.  Or that's what I like to think. 

About braces.  I have a cheap one that's a bit stretched out now, so my brother-in-law lend me his.  It was a great contraption all neoprene and velcro.  Then he went and dropped a coffee table on his bad knee while helping a friend move and I had to give it back.  That's when I realized how much I had grown to depend on it.

About orthothics, I've heard mixed reviews about them.  My mom doesn't like them while my friend swears by them.  But my doctor won't send me to a specialist unless I've tried them.  I tend to think that seven months after my initial injury and I still having problems that I should get to see someone.  I'd at least like to get on the wait list because I know I'll be waiting for a few months at best.  But that's public health care for you.  I live in Canada, its all public health care.  It has its benefits but the waiting...

Beautiful day here today.  Worked all day though, but its the weekend so maybe I'll get to enjoy it.  Who am I kidding, I'm moving next weekend so I'll be packing.

Anyway, the empty boxes are waiting, enough procrastinating.   :)

Take care