Banner - Hide this banner





Author Topic: I just watched Sicko  (Read 2665 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rainerng

  • Regular Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 55
  • Liked: 0
I just watched Sicko
« on: July 13, 2007, 05:05:57 AM »
I just watched sicko and I am totally blown away....

For those of you living in england, I have some questions about the FREE healthcare from NHS

1) Can you choose to see ANY doctor or specialist you want? Do you have to have a referral?
2) Say your OS wants to perform an ACI....does a panel have to approve of such "experimental" procedures?

Thanks
Ballroom Dancer
Jan 07 Fissure in Patella while dancing (prob due to VMO weakness)
Feb - May 07 PT
Jun 07 Injury got worse and given synvisc
1st Aug 07 Debridement surgery
8th Aug 07 PT with isometric knee exercises
13th Sept 07 PT with PRE's

Offline soozles

  • Forum Faithful
  • ****
  • Posts: 451
  • Liked: 1
    • PCL recovery blog
Re: I just watched Sicko
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2007, 07:00:29 PM »
I haven't seen Sicko, nor do I want to. But I've heard what it's about, and it's such propoganda, it's disgusting. He basically glorifies social healthcare, which while nice in idea, does not work. Basically, he only showed the exceptions. You hear all the time about people waiting years for an elective operation. If socialized medicine was so great, why are so many people from Canada going into the US for medical treatment? s socialized medicin the answer? No. Does the US need to reform it's health care policy? Sure. But something about the numbers of people you hear about who have no coverage, it's not always as bad as it seems. Quite a few people are without insurance by choice. You have the recent college grads, young, healty, they figure what do they need insurance for? Other people, healthy people, find it cheaper to pay for the occasional doctor visit than paying for insurance. Sure there are people that need it and can't afford it, but there's also a chunk of people who can afford and opt out of it.

Sorry, but I'm just sick of Michael Moore and his completely biased documentaries. There's something wrong with a documentarian who tries to get on camera as much as possible and ham everything up for the camera.
May 2005: Torn PCL, misdiagnosed as chondromalacia
April 2010: pain worse, lots of instability
Nov. 23, 2010: PCL reconstruction
progress here: http://pclrecovery.blogspot.com/

Offline jathib

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • Posts: 1984
  • Liked: 0
  • ACL recon, lateral menisectomy, lateral PKR
Re: I just watched Sicko
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2007, 08:54:21 PM »
I'm in agreement with Soozles here. I can't stand Michael Moore. His documentaries are one-sided and from what I've read he showed nothing of the downside of socialized medicine.  One of my husband's friends always complains about how he can't afford to go to the doctor and whatnot. However, he spends thousands of dollars on toys and his wife spends at least $200 a month getting her hair and nails done. It's not that he can't pay, he just doesn't want to which is the case with many people. People have somehow gotten the idea that someone else should be paying for their health care so they spend all their money on things they want instead of things they need.

The media doesn't want you to know that Canadians regularly come to the US for health care. My family lives in a border state and one time when I was up there they had a big article in the newspaper about how many Canadians were using the local hospital.

Offline soozles

  • Forum Faithful
  • ****
  • Posts: 451
  • Liked: 1
    • PCL recovery blog
Re: I just watched Sicko
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2007, 09:13:50 PM »
I also heard he showed some hospital in Cuba where people recieve some great treatment. One hospital in Cuba was all the government allowed him to see. Gee, I wonder why. It's not even a hospital used by Cubans, it's basically a hospital where foreigners who want to pay cash get some excellent, state of the art treatment. So yea, pay big money, get good treatment. Not much different than anywhere else in the US.
May 2005: Torn PCL, misdiagnosed as chondromalacia
April 2010: pain worse, lots of instability
Nov. 23, 2010: PCL reconstruction
progress here: http://pclrecovery.blogspot.com/

Offline shortyclairebear

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2508
  • Liked: 0
Re: I just watched Sicko
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2007, 09:33:17 PM »
hi there!
firstly i haven't seen sicko (whatever that is but it sounds like a movie about a mad person!!)

BUT! i do live in the uk and the NHS is not exactly "free" for UK workers.(people on benefits etc or "dole" get this "free" as the government fund it by benefits)

we have to pay tax out out our wages and something called national insurance is taken from our wages,which is our "contribution" every month to our "free" healthcare,we also have to pay for every prescription we get which is about 7.00 per item.
the NHS waiting lists can be never ending.there is also alot of controversy at the moment over what is being nicknamed the "postcode lottery" where certain areas of the country are not allowed certain treatments that may be too expensive to prescribe,where other area may be allowed to get these meds on prescription.
i was not given a choice as to which OS i saw.i have had more then one opinion on my knee probs but you do get the impression that things you request can be prolonged and even turned down if they are too costly for the doctors/surgeon to prescribe/diagnose.
for both of my ops i have waited approx 1 year for the dates for these to come through.
i asked in the end for the anthroscepy to be done as the OS was quite happy for me to do PT hoping this would solve my knee problems.
this brought back the results that my knee was a "mess inside" and needed further surgery.if i had not had this done i would still be living with my knee as it was.

i had a health scare a few years back where i found a lump in my breast and went to my GP.i was referred to a specialist but the waiting list was so long to see the specialist that i worried if it was something more serious that i had the delay could make it worse.(i was actually referred as a low priority as i was so young and "low risk"
for it to be cancer and was expected to wait 8 months)
i actually paid to see this same specialist privately and was seen 2 days later as i was prepared to spend 140.00 to see him sooner.(BUT this was 11 years ago!)

where i live i had to "join" the doctors surgery that was in my catchment area (i moved to the other end of the city),i wanted to go to a different doctors that i had had recommended by my boyfriend but was turned down as even though it was actaully nearer to my house then the one i now go to it was out of the post code catchment area.

yes the doctors refer you to specialists.i suppose you can pay and see one yourself without a doctors referral but i imagine the costs are now extortionate given the 140.00 i paid to see one was 11 years ago!

from what i am aware no we do not have a panel of experts to approve procedures.i am not familiar with the ACI procedure but the specialist that i see i was referred to by my GP i had been given recommendations from people i had spoke to who had had surgery by him and they had been successes so to me that was some comfort i was in the hands of an expert,on meeting him i have also found him to be good and very open about questions i have asked.

hope this helps abit!!
« Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 09:36:45 PM by shortyclairebear »
i had a motorcycle accident-landed on right knee!(mar 05)
...arthroscopy - 4th feb 06.
...VMO Advancement,LR+JMedial reefing - 24th jan 07.
...28 feb 07 i fell down 14 stairs.....more pain and stress!
...now at PT working on ROM and strenghening

Offline garth

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • Posts: 589
  • Liked: 0
Re: I just watched Sicko
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2007, 11:46:31 PM »
Claire has made a pretty good description of what its like in the uk with the NHS.

The main thing that struck me with Michael Moor's work was the complete lack of balance. He struck me as a bit of a twat to be honest.

I've not seen sicko, probably won't either going by what work of his that I have seen.

garth
Knee troubles since 1997
Dec 07 - Scope, just a clear up.
Feb 09 - Plica removal
Nov 09 - Lateral release
Mar 11 - More done to LR and some 'tweaks'
Nov 12 - Fulkerson and possible vmo advancement, dont know yet!

Offline Berta

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1357
  • Liked: 3
  • Much to young to feel this dam old, Garth Brooks
Re: I just watched Sicko
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2007, 03:16:21 AM »
Just to be different I'll say I quite like Moor's work, its like reading the tabloid newspapers, as long as you remember it's entertainment and not news. I haven't seen Sicko, but have had experience of the UK NHS and the Canadian system.

Claire has given a great description of the NHS, and just to add too it. More companies are now providing health insurance as one of the perks of employment. It pays for them because they can get people fit and back to work far quicker. I took full advantage of the insurance, and it was great. It's a big debate, but for me the NHS benefits from private health care as it taks some of the starin off. I hav never had a problem as long as people pay into the social health care through their taxes, if they want to pay again to go private, that one less person in the queue.

My first experience of Canadian health care was great, had chest infection, was sent by the doc to hospital about half a mile, waited 10 mins, had chest Xray, waited for the films, took them straight back to the doc, got prescription job done. My knee has been another issue, saw him first in Jan, got Xrays and ultra sound done within a month, but don't get to see OS until Sept 26th, which is for ever. I have to pay for my pain pills, $100+ every month, and there is no option of going private. If I could afford it I would go down to the US, but money and time are both resticted.
6th Dec 2007 arthoscropy, major debridement and meniscus trimmed
Jan 08 2008 Arthritis grade 2/3 told to wait until TKR needed.
August 2010 Left knee arthroscopy

Offline rainerng

  • Regular Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 55
  • Liked: 0
Re: I just watched Sicko
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2007, 05:05:17 AM »
Thanks for your post Claire. It was very informative. Personally, I thought Sicko was a good movie. It opened up america's eyes to the different healthcare systems in other developed nations. I think that socialized healthcare is a good idea...but if you can afford it and want to see a top doctor in private practice, then by all means. But for the rest of the population, I think a lot of people will benefit from a system where tax dollars are used to pay for healthcare.

I hope everyone gets a chance to watch the movie :>
Ballroom Dancer
Jan 07 Fissure in Patella while dancing (prob due to VMO weakness)
Feb - May 07 PT
Jun 07 Injury got worse and given synvisc
1st Aug 07 Debridement surgery
8th Aug 07 PT with isometric knee exercises
13th Sept 07 PT with PRE's

Offline jathib

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • Posts: 1984
  • Liked: 0
  • ACL recon, lateral menisectomy, lateral PKR
Re: I just watched Sicko
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2007, 01:20:21 PM »
Well, I won't be seeing the movie. A national health care system in the US would be a disaster. Just look at the fiasco at Walter Reed Hospital. That's how well the government manages health care for our national heroes.

As an aside, I was recently in a training class and the instructor had just come from teaching a class in Canada the week before. His wife is pregnant and he had a student in the Canadian class whose wife was also pregnant. The instructor was talking about all the "well baby" appointments his wife had had during the course of her 4 month pregnancy. The Canadian guy's wife was 7 months pregnant. He said she had not yet seen a doctor for any kind of exam because the wait for an appointment is so long.
Do you think Americans will stand for that?

 

Offline shortyclairebear

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2508
  • Liked: 0
Re: I just watched Sicko
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2007, 02:07:51 PM »
hi there!
your'e welcome for the last post rainerng!
i'm glad that i gave a description of the N.H.S that other brits or people who have experienced the N.H.S agree with.
if was my opinion and my experience with it,but it is good to see others would view it the same way.

i also think what annoys alot of peple in the U.K about the N.H.S is that the things they are happy to fund are things that most people disagree with!

they seem to be happy to fund things like anti smoking campaigns etc and give out treatments to help people give up that cost alot,but a while back all hell broke loose as people suffering with alziemers diesease were told that a medication that would help sufferers tremendously was being refused as it costs 2.50 a day to fund.it broke out into an uproar that a diesease that cannot be controlled yourself was being snubbed but smokers where helped even though it was their choice to smoke in the first place.
the silly thing though is that the treatment for the alzeimers sufferers is still much much cheaper to fund then the nurses/carers the patient needs to help them with every day activities which they may be able to do for themselves if given the medication they are deprived of.

i had a motorcycle accident-landed on right knee!(mar 05)
...arthroscopy - 4th feb 06.
...VMO Advancement,LR+JMedial reefing - 24th jan 07.
...28 feb 07 i fell down 14 stairs.....more pain and stress!
...now at PT working on ROM and strenghening

Offline bungleg

  • Regular Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • Liked: 0
  • my tpf hardware
Re: I just watched Sicko
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2007, 03:26:30 AM »
come to australia, if your a drug-o or a bludger or a criminal you get looked after better than the hard working law abiding people that have to pay extra taxes to fund our health system,we go onto a waiting list also and it can take years for people to have surgery that they need and yes we have private health insurance also if you can afford it and then the insurance companies have all the fine print that your not covered for 95 % of things anyway or their budget allocation for the month is already booked out so you go on a waiting list anyway.
30/08/05 tpf, plate 8 screws and bone graft, pivot brace 5degs movment, 12weeks nwb, pt, leg stuck at 45deg
30/11/05 got leg straight phone books came in handy,rom 60degs,hydro,pt, start wb increase 10kg per week
01/03/06 full wb rom 95
may 06 rom 110
nov 06 screws + plate removed arthroscopy

Offline bungleg

  • Regular Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • Liked: 0
  • my tpf hardware
Re: I just watched Sicko
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2007, 04:48:11 AM »
ct of my tib plat
30/08/05 tpf, plate 8 screws and bone graft, pivot brace 5degs movment, 12weeks nwb, pt, leg stuck at 45deg
30/11/05 got leg straight phone books came in handy,rom 60degs,hydro,pt, start wb increase 10kg per week
01/03/06 full wb rom 95
may 06 rom 110
nov 06 screws + plate removed arthroscopy

Offline Silkncardcrafts

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • Posts: 3916
  • Liked: 6
Re: I just watched Sicko
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2007, 04:55:15 AM »
Bungleg,

That's not totally true about private health insurance in Australia.

Most health insurance companies cover the majority of things. Haven't had an operation yet that they haven't covered. There will often be a gap beween what a doctor charges and what the health fund and medicare will return.

At least going privately is a lot more affordable than it is in the UK ! :D

11/1996 - RK LR
07/1997 - LK LR
11/1998 - LK MPFL Reco
12/2005 - RK LR Repair
07/2006 - LK MPFL Repair
11/2006 - LK LR Repair
22/05/08 - LK Trochleoplasty
11/02/10 - RK Trochleoplasty
07/03/11 - RK Chrondroplasty

Offline nofun

  • Regular Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
  • Liked: 0
  • Live....Love...&....Lern....LOTS
Re: I just watched Sicko
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2007, 09:54:54 AM »
funny that i just watched it aswell!
i liked it and i think it gave a good view of what goes on in other countrys!
just for the record, ive had nothing but the best treatment here in australia i have private health cover and it covers all hospital bills inc physio and surgeon consalts for the next 2 yrs :)
17 y.Old, Personal Trainer/ Group Fitness Instructor :)
snowboarding acident , "pop" in Body Attack class...
physio 99.9% sure of ACL
possible ACL & Medial Meniscus damage
MRI 15/6 - Neva thought it would be so hard to sit still 4 20minz
OS appt 22/6 .....
Surgery 26/6 ???
WAITING WAITING

Offline Doc79316

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • Posts: 1766
  • Liked: 1
  • OSCAR
Re: I just watched Sicko
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2007, 04:45:42 AM »
HI All,

I've note seen this film nor have I ever heard of Sicko or Michael MOore. Claire - you are spot on about the NHS. I ust thought I'd like to add something here.

I've had extraordinary treatment by the NHS. On one hand, my OS has decided to operate to resolve my knee problems and I've had the surgery well inside the time it would've taken for me to go private. However, on the other hand, my surgery wound didn't heal over and it took me going private to see a Dermatologist that convinceed my OS I hadn't interfered with the wound myself.
To a large extent, I think treatment depends not just on whether it's affordable or not, but also whether one has a doctor who is prepared to think outside the box and use common sense every once in a while. It's not difficult, but  from my perspective, a lot of COnsultants see patients not as people, but just statistics which need certain problems resolving. If what you have wrong with you isn't life threatening or considerede urgent, then you end up stuck on the bottom nd of a waiting list more often than not.

Laura x
Left knee surgery
08/06/02-L/Release
13/08/03-Fulkerson TTT
05/06/05-Stabilisation & Medialisation/Tendon Transfer
13/01/06-Proximal Hamstring Superior Stabilisation
06/03/06-RSD/CRPS diagnosed
20/07/06 + 03/04/07-Excision of scar tissue
29/05/15-Arthroscopy
02/03/20-Left transfemoral amputation