Advertisement - Hide this advert





Author Topic: Mind Over Matter?  (Read 4890 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Knulp

  • Guest
Mind Over Matter?
« on: July 23, 2006, 07:47:19 PM »
Dear Knee Geeks,

My first post -- Iíve been a voyeur here for over two months.  I started reading just before my ACLr [hamstring] and ever since the surgery eight and half weeks ago.  Iíve greatly benefited from reading the experiences shared on this site. Thanks everyone.

Background: There was an eighteen year gap (over half of my life!) between my injury (complete ACL tear) and the ACLr.  Iíve thought of my knee as a ďbum kneeĒ for a long time; it became part of my personality, in a way, or certainly part of the way in which Iíve viewed myself since I made changes to my life to accomodate the knee.  Envisioning my knee as a tight and stable knee now is a serious challenge.

Iím interested to know, especially from folks who have had a long span of time between injury and ACLr, if anyone has noticed any psychological hurdles in their rehabilitation that the standard PT strengthening and proprioception training havenít been able to address?  If so, what?  And how have you tackled them?

Offline jb-knee-geek

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1527
  • Liked: 0
  • Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile
Re: Mind Over Matter?
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2006, 09:16:04 PM »
an 18 year gap, wow. I've been ACL-less for about 5 years, I'll be having mine done soon. Hopefully, the OS won't find other wear and tear issues.

Mentally this is exhausting, mostly from the pre-op jitters. And, I am unable to participate in my favorite sports activities. 

Sorry I can't help w- post-op issues just yet. 

I'm interested in your surgery, did your OS find any other damage?

I was in a pre-op PT class the other day, out of 5 people, one tore the ACL in 1989, another in 1995, 2 in 2001 and one early '06. Hmmmmmmmm. 
torn RK ACL March 2001, surgery Aug. 14 2006, after 4 knee sprains since Oct. '05.  Allograft, ~40% medial meniscus removed, some wear in the trochlear groove. Everything else looks good.

Post-op diary: http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEtalk/index.php?topic=29749.

Knulp

  • Guest
Re: Mind Over Matter?
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2006, 02:00:44 AM »
My OS said he saw some potential damage on the lateral meniscus when he viewed the MRI but he wouldn't know for certain until he had a direct look in the knee.  After the surgery, he told me he was very surprised there was only minimal damage to the joint after all these years without an ACL.  He ended up trimming less than 10% of the lateral meniscus. 

Offline zengirl

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • Posts: 1472
  • Liked: 0
Re: Mind Over Matter?
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2006, 01:09:28 PM »
I had three years of pretty much continuous "dislocation" in my knee, playing on court, walking around, kneeing down, mowing the lawn, wondering what was going on, wishing it would stop, thinking it wasn't right. Eventually, in spite of NHS emergency room telling me there was no damage and it should get better, I paid to go privately to a local hospital and was immediately diagnosed with a torn ACL with surgery very recommended! I hated those years of confusion and worry. Not knowing what was wrong with my knee, why it was giving way beneath me all the time when qualified doctors had said there was nothing wrong. I just assumed it would get better by itself. Now I know the ACL does not get better. Thank goodness I got it seen to. I don't know how much extra damage I did in the meantime, but I did have to have some meniscus trimmed away.

Visualising a strong and stable knee is going to be interesting and peculiar... but do-able. I WILL have a strong and stable knee. Trouble is... in comparison to my tight new right knee, my left knee seems incredibly loose and lax..
« Last Edit: July 24, 2006, 04:45:30 PM by zengirl »
Feb '03 Ladies badminton, bad fall, detached ACL
May '06 - ACL reconstruction & meniscus repair
Complications - swelling, pain, lack of flexion/extension, 50% graft failure
Jan '07 Arthoscopy, debride, removal of adhesions & 50% of graft
Attempting to rebuild muscles so can continue sport & life

Offline jb-knee-geek

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1527
  • Liked: 0
  • Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile
Re: Mind Over Matter?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2006, 02:59:48 PM »
thanks for the posts, K and ZG, very helpful to read others stories.
torn RK ACL March 2001, surgery Aug. 14 2006, after 4 knee sprains since Oct. '05.  Allograft, ~40% medial meniscus removed, some wear in the trochlear groove. Everything else looks good.

Post-op diary: http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEtalk/index.php?topic=29749.

Knulp

  • Guest
Re: Mind Over Matter?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2006, 04:17:28 PM »
After my injury in 1988, two sports doctors quickly confirmed (one had the helo of an MRI, one didn't) that my ACL was torn.  They told me my knee was like a "walking time bomb" and that an ACLr was absolutely necessary.  The prospect of a nine month or more recovery was not appealing at the time.  So I went to another orthopedic doctor, who told me that instead of surgery, I could rehab very seriously for  2-3 months and alter my activities thereafter and see how it goes.  I chose the thrid doc's plan.  Over the years I have meant to get the joint repaired but always there's been something else that needed to be attended to before my knee; and as it wasn't a terrible nuisance, I left it alone.  Nearly every day since 1988, however, I've had to work the muscles surrounding the knee to keep it from acting up (with thera bands, toe raises, step ups, slrs, etc). That amounts to a lot of PT!  Still, at least once a year my knee would flare up (it never really felt like it was slipping or buckling), which would leave me with some swelling for anywhere from a week to a month.  The most recent flare up was this past January and it lasted over two months.  This, added with the facts that I have some free time this year to rehab, a good recommendation about an OS in the city in which I live, and a need to get back to some of my old activities finallly brought me to the ACLr surgery.  Frankly, my life was fine without an ACL.  My ligamnet lacuna didn't get in the way of much that I wanted to do.  Now that I have an ACL again, though, the date that I can use the knee full on can't come soon enough!

   

Offline patpalloon

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • Posts: 832
  • Liked: 6
Re: Mind Over Matter?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2006, 04:50:54 PM »
Knulp -

your tale is a good advert to have an ACL recon if ever I heard one.
LEFT KNEE: ACL and medial meniscal tear Sept 05.
Arthroscopy Jan 06.
Hamstring ACLR Apr 06.

RIGHT KNEE: meniscal tear 2008. Partial meniscectomy 2008 and again 2009.

Offline IanM

  • MINIgeek (20-50 posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 22
  • Liked: 0
Re: Mind Over Matter?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2006, 07:18:46 PM »
This is interesting reading, folks.

I ruptured my ACL 10 weeks ago.† After an initial period of recuperation, I saw the specialist and started an intensive physio course 5 weeks ago.† Frankly, Iíve been amazed at my progress as I was sceptical about what Iíd be able to do without an ACL.† But things are looking good.†

A weekend away, camping, with some moderate walking (and a little moderate drinking) was planned for this past weekend.† So to add to the fun, I went by motorcycle rather than in the car Ė about 220 miles each way, so my longest bike ride since I hurt myself.† The weekend gave the knee a good test and the thing I found most difficult was getting in and out of my tent.† I still havenít quite got the last few degrees of flexion which would have proved useful.† Today I have a bit of swelling and still some pain from periosteal bruising on the top of the lower leg bones but all in all the knee seems to have stood up quite well and Iím quite happy about my progress - except that one of the guys I met up with at the weekend is an Army nurse, currently working on orthopaedic trauma and is of the view that Iím being overly optimistic about life without an ACL and should go straight to ACLr now as Iím obviously well enough recovered from the initial injury to be able to undergo the surgery and subsequent exercise regime.† He reckons that life without ACL just isnít likely to be tolerable for me Ė so these stories really are food for thought.† Thanks for posting them.


Ruptured right ACL, 14th May 2006.† Going well with no repair so far!

Offline zengirl

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • Posts: 1472
  • Liked: 0
Re: Mind Over Matter?
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2006, 10:59:57 PM »
I'm really sorry but I agree with the nurse. Once it's broken it's broken. It will never heal and therefore always be unstable. If you lead a passive life and are old this can be ok. Sorry to put it like that, but lets call a spade a spade. But if you want an active life then if you don't get the reconstruction you're risking further damage to the joint and added complications that wouldn't have happened such as arthritis..

I know that sounds horrible. But I think the sooner you get the reconstruction the better. Then you can be healing instead of being wounded. Unfortunately the wounded will not go away by itself.
Feb '03 Ladies badminton, bad fall, detached ACL
May '06 - ACL reconstruction & meniscus repair
Complications - swelling, pain, lack of flexion/extension, 50% graft failure
Jan '07 Arthoscopy, debride, removal of adhesions & 50% of graft
Attempting to rebuild muscles so can continue sport & life

Offline kezza

  • MICROgeek (<20 posts)
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Liked: 0
Re: Mind Over Matter?
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2006, 11:35:30 PM »
Great thread. I'm now nearly 3 years post op and was on the waiting list for 3 years post injury - so you could say I've had equal time without an ACL and with a new one.

I tried sport after my injury and could cope some of the time but the occaissional dislocation was painful and, as has been already said, libel to cause more damage.

After surgery I kept up with PT and gradually the knee got stronger. The main problem that I had was trusting the knee again. The knee doesn't feel the same as it did post injury, I know it's just as strong but it's just a mental thing. For what it's worth I think that this is the most difficult obstacle to full recovery.

Just my musings! Hope you're all healing well!

Knulp

  • Guest
Re: Mind Over Matter?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2006, 01:47:18 AM »
The ACL definitely will not heal.  But, judging strictly form my own experience, I'd suggest that one can live a healthy and active life without an ACL.  I stopped playing cutting-type sports, e.g., basketball, and stuck with biking, swimming, hiking, and other straight ahead-type activities.  This was alright, so long as I was vigilant about doing with my daily stretches and exercises (basic PT stuff).  If I was traveling for an extended period of time or just unable to keep up the strength of the knee's surrounding muscles, I could have a setback from just about any activity, even walking.  I rarely understood why my knee would flare up. Ultimately I decided to have the ACL reconstructed so that I can put the occasional random flare ups behind me and start using my leg again without trepidation.  With all things being eqaul with respect to my physical abilities, I reckon the biggest hurdle for me will be, like Keeza, getting to the point mentally where I trust the knee again.     

Offline kezza

  • MICROgeek (<20 posts)
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Liked: 0
Re: Mind Over Matter?
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2006, 12:01:07 AM »
Got to say if I was just keen on cycling or jogging I wouldn't have had the op. As an ex- pro soccer player, with huge quads (27 inches), I never really thought that I'd get back to the way I was post injury. Look at all the top footballers that have had the injury and haven't been the same since, Ronaldo being the prime example.

My 100m times may prove interesting - 6 months after the injury I could do the distance in 12.5 sec. Nearly 3 years post op my PB is still only 13.8. Is this in the mind or something else, I don't know. But I know that Pires (the Arsenal player) has nowhere near the same speed as he had post injury.

What I do know is that if I wanted to carry on playing soccer and cricket I had no choice, it was either stop playing sports that involve stopping quickly and changing direction or I have the op and deal with the outcome.

I'd love to hear if anyone has measured straight line running times pre and post op.

Everyone is different, we all heal, react and deal with the emotional stuff in a slightly different way. My view is that you have to be positive and set obtainable goals.

Take care Knulp and don't lose sight of where you eventually want to be.


Offline IanM

  • MINIgeek (20-50 posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 22
  • Liked: 0
Re: Mind Over Matter?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2006, 10:02:25 PM »
Oh, dearÖÖÖ. :(

As I said, this thread is an interesting read.† Thanks, everyone, for your views and comments.† My situation moved on a long way yesterday morning.† On my way to work, without a care in the world, I stepped down from the train to the platform with my right (bad) leg leading.† My knee gave way, I got a really sharp pain on the lateral side and it was all I could do to stop myself from loosing my balance and ending up flat on my face.† Not good Ė and it took me a couple of minutes to recover my composure and limp up to the office.† Anyway, I saw my physio today (for a routine appointment) and:
ē   Iíve lost a few degrees off the extension which I had worked really hard to get, so I now canít lock out my knee straight again Ė something is blocking the movement;
ē   Iíve lost about 15 degrees off the flexion (now only about 120 degrees) because Iím in real pain on the lateral side by the time I get there; &
ē   Thereís still a bit of swelling and itís quite a few weeks since I had any of that.


Anyway, Iím due to see the specialist on Monday morning so it will be a useful meeting.† I really did try to get the knee fit and operational without an ACL, and I was walking and cycling with no bother, but something simple like getting off the train stuffs it up.† Ho, hum.


Ruptured right ACL, 14th May 2006.† Going well with no repair so far!

Offline Audice

  • SuperKNEEgeek
  • *****
  • Posts: 1061
  • Liked: 8
Re: Mind Over Matter?
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2006, 11:14:18 PM »
and I was walking and cycling with no bother, but something simple like getting off the train stuffs it up.† Ho, hum.

My thoughts exactly. Ian. Mine is an equestrian sport & not something that should necessarily require an ACL but it never fails. About the time I forget about having no ACL, my knee reminds me...Ellie
April, 2005 - ACL rupture, medial meniscus tear within posterior horn to articular surface, abnormal signal within lateral meniscus, partial tear MCL, bone contusions tibia/fibula, Baker's cyst.
No repairs.

Offline WJD

  • Forum Faithful
  • ****
  • Posts: 263
  • Liked: 0
Re: Mind Over Matter?
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2006, 01:16:16 PM »
IanM

I am exactly the same.  I have returned to most activities, (not aerobics!) and it was strawberry picking that got me going last week!  I could almost cope with avoiding a particular activity if "everyday" stuff was going to be OK, but when everyday stuff fouls up your knee its just not on.

WJD
02/05 - ACL damage in a skiing collision.
01/06 - suspect lateral meniscus tear kneeling to change a DVD.
6/4/06 - Arthroscopy to remove meniscus bucket handle tear, ACL found to be ruptured.†
6/3/7 - Hamstring ACLR















support