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Author Topic: 4 years, 3 MRIs, and an arthoscopy and no diagnosis  (Read 1552 times)

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Offline swaynevds4755

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4 years, 3 MRIs, and an arthoscopy and no diagnosis
« on: March 11, 2006, 09:24:39 PM »
Maybe some one has an idea for me....My history is the following:

02 - Pain on Posteromedial area of the knee from too much running - went to os - no diagnosis
03 - Same pain -  got MRI - no diagnosis
04 - Continued pain - Another MRI -  no diagnosis
05 - A prolotherapy doc said I had a weak ACL - tried prolo - didn't work
06 - 3rd MRI - ACL is fine - Measured ACL laxity on KT1000- no problems - still no diagnosis
Feb -06 - OS looked at 3rd MRI and said I had a medial meniscus tear
Feb- 06 - Had arthroscopy- NO MENISCUS TEAR! - I couldn't believe it - still no diagnosis
March - 06 - Back where I started, no better or worse off - continued pain

My pain can best be described as weakness/dull ache right next to the semimembranosus tendon on the posterior medial area of the knee.  It is aggravated when the heel strikes the ground when walking and the knee is fully extended.  I am to the point of just giving up and assuming I will have this for the rest of my life.  My gut tells me it could be that I once was inured and I have altered my biomechanics to protect an injury that may have heeled long ago.  This alteration could be causing continued pain.  But that’s just a theory…any ideas??

Offline jb-knee-geek

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Re: 4 years, 3 MRIs, and an arthoscopy and no diagnosis
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2006, 11:33:14 PM »
swayne, sorry to hear of your injuries, don't give up hope.

think of it this way, you've ruled out ACL and meniscus problems, you should be very happy about that.

The only thing I can think of it is to continue to seek out the very best OS you can find for another opinion. Hopefully, you'll find one who can give a proper diagnosis.


torn RK ACL March 2001, surgery Aug. 14 2006, after 4 knee sprains since Oct. '05.  Allograft, ~40% medial meniscus removed, some wear in the trochlear groove. Everything else looks good.

Post-op diary: http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEtalk/index.php?topic=29749.

Offline swaynevds4755

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Re: 4 years, 3 MRIs, and an arthoscopy and no diagnosis
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2006, 11:50:26 PM »
I like the positive attitude.  Yeah, I guess I'll just continue the quest.

Offline tiggs

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Re: 4 years, 3 MRIs, and an arthoscopy and no diagnosis
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2006, 09:39:30 AM »
Hi Swaney,
sorry you dont seem to be getting anywhere. I am not very up on what everything in and around the knee is called unless it is something that i have had to dael with, so I am not exactly sure where your pain is coming from.

You said it occurs when your knee is fully extended and the heel strikes the ground, well I have had a problem similar to that since my last surgery but it can be excrutiatingly painfull for a fleeting moment and then returns to a dull ache. This runs down the outside of my knee into my shin or close to that area.sometimes it feels like it is slipping from a point, The cause is known as runners knee in laymans terms and it is to do with placement and impact of foot when running. Not that I do much of this ,however my knee has not been in the correct position for years and so now it is , it is having to get used to the placement of everything again.

Its also known as the ilio band syndrome ( something like that) you can find some info on the site about it.

I dont know if your problem is similar to what I had ,but if not I,m sorry couldnt be of more help and I hope you get some answers soon.

Tiggs.
Age 37,
bouncy castle injury at ripe old age of 24 !! 1992 ?
ACL recon x 1 failed screw came out ! 03
Arthroscopy  04
ACL recon patella version x1 ok still not great .04
mcl, pcl, pol, recon in 1 weeks time !!  may 05
Had op may 05 Mcl, pcl, acl, pol all doing well not so sure about LCL !

Offline swaynevds4755

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Re: 4 years, 3 MRIs, and an arthoscopy and no diagnosis
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2006, 04:56:20 AM »
I just looked up ilio band syndrome and it looks like those symptoms are on the later side of the knee.  My pain in on the medial side, the posterior medial side.  I am thinking that maybe it's a hamstring problem where the semitendinosis or semimembranosus attaches next the knee.  Honestly...I really have no clue what it is.

Thanks for your comments though.

Offline jb-knee-geek

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Re: 4 years, 3 MRIs, and an arthoscopy and no diagnosis
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2006, 03:16:42 PM »
One other thought, a good PT or atrhletic trainer may also have some good ideas. Best of luck.
torn RK ACL March 2001, surgery Aug. 14 2006, after 4 knee sprains since Oct. '05.  Allograft, ~40% medial meniscus removed, some wear in the trochlear groove. Everything else looks good.

Post-op diary: http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEtalk/index.php?topic=29749.

Offline blackbeltgirl

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Re: 4 years, 3 MRIs, and an arthoscopy and no diagnosis
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2006, 03:36:33 PM »
You may want to consult a podiatrist.  It's possible that your foot/shoe combination is causing trouble.  (you may have flat feet, or high arches, or other problems, and foot/ankle issues can lead to knee issues.)  YOu may also want to consider consulting a chiropractor, and do some research on biomechanics.  There is something called Rolfing (I think) that teaches you to use your body differently.  And Alexnader Technique, which is less about physical adjustments, but still can have a physical impact.

I'll be honest, despite all your descriptions, the only thing I understood was that your pain was on the medial side of the knee.  I don't know if it's near the patella, front or back, sharp, stabbing, aching, cosntant or occasional, etc.  Is it possible that your doctors are also having trouble understanding your descriptions?  YOu may want to keep a journal for a while, following the KISS principle.  Print out a picture of the knee.  Color in the part of the knee that hurts.  Indicate constant, periodic, or occasional pain.  When it happens, how long does it last.  In simple terms, what does the pain feel like.  What activities make it worse? 

You also don't mention your articular cartilage at all.  When the doc went in to scope the meniscus, did he do a full exploratory?  Have you read the surgical notes?  Did they record the procedure?  If the articular cartilage, menisci, tendons, and ligaments have all been visually examined and found healthy, and you've had hip to ankle standing x-rays, you may need to explore some "non-knee" sources.

best of luck-
Jess
ACI was supposed to be 2/21/06.  On 6/29/06 Insurance co said have another scope, and if it still looks good, they'll ok the ACI.
Microfracture Dec 7, 2004
   3cm x 6cm lesion, LFC; 3cm x 1cm lesion, trochlear groove; lateral tibial plateau lesion
2nd degree black belt, tae kwon do (had to stop)

Offline bummedknee

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Re: 4 years, 3 MRIs, and an arthoscopy and no diagnosis
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2011, 08:50:56 AM »
hi sway  , i hope this shows in your email. i believe we have the same condition. it's been year and half with injury. mri is fine but i cant run, it hurts off and on alot, when i stand up straight and flex my leg the back medial something scrunches and it affects whole leg , doesn't flex as well. i would love to discuss this with you further if you let me, just want to make sure you get this first. i research all the time and yours seems to be closest to what i got. thanks,jeff















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