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Author Topic: Any Peroneal Nerve recovery stories?  (Read 469182 times)

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Offline j_smi001

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Re: Any Peroneal Nerve recovery stories?
« Reply #225 on: February 23, 2007, 10:53:17 PM »
Interesting article, although I don't profess to have understood all of it.  Different time lines are quoted in this article to the ones I have been given and so can only empathise with the anxiety this causes.  The article quotes grade 3, so does that mean there are different grades of recovery, i.e. not have it don't have it but there are grades of having it in between?  So how many grades and how are they defined?  Don't worry about answering that as you have more than enough to worry about.

Andre - so sorry to hear about your set back and that you are taped up.  Lets hope that this is not long term and there is a way to retrain the muscles to do their bit.

On a personal note I have physiotherapy on monday and so want to show off my new lift and hold on the foot.  It is still not dorsiflexing to anywhere near the same amount as the unaffected fott but I can lift and hold for a bit now.  I find it does make the front of my leg sting though and my ankle area is throbbing more noticably nowdays, although I am hoping that is through hard work that it has not been used to.  The foot feels tight as I start to dorsiflex but when I passively move the foot up and down it is OK - so not sure what that is all about either.  Still not heard a date from the hospital for either the neuro consult or the orthopeadic consult for the op date - I can't stand this waiting........................

Have a good weekend all and try to take it easy and relax. x
2002 plica removal, chrondoplasty both knees and LR right knee. Derotational tibial osteotomy rt leg 07/04/06.  Awaiting for left leg to be rotated and have no more knee pain!

Offline stabso

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Re: Any Peroneal Nerve recovery stories?
« Reply #226 on: February 24, 2007, 08:30:34 AM »
Hi all

Can't resist chucking in my 2 pence worth about grades.
According to the powers that be - whoever they are - there is a muscle grading system they use for assessment and this is the info I've come across as to how it goes...

Grade 0 = No evidence of contractility
         1 = Evidence of slight contactillty, no joint motion
         2 = Complete range of motion with gravity eliminated
         3 = Complete range of motion against gravity
         4 = Complete range of motion against some resistance
         5 = Complete range of motion with full resistance 

mom444, I totally understand your frustrations and anxieties when coming across conflicting articles and theories from the "experts".
It's as though you have become an expert yourself as you cut to the chase when answers are sometimes not properly thought out or totally wide of the mark even.
I try to gather the info and question each consultant as I come across them and when the answers conflict I put it to them and then gut instinct also comes into play a little.
But one answer that has been consistent with nerve recovery is the "unknownness" in terms of time to heal and how we're all wired up which goes some way to explaining the conflicting answers.

Talking of frustration and confusion, I had an EMG this week by a girl whose first language was not English and kept referring to me as she.
As much as I tried to get answers, I figured I'd have to wait to see the neurosurgeon next week to get a better picture of what's what from the results although I did manage to get a "not good" for the poreneal.

Andre, good to hear from you even though you've had a rough few days.
Hope you get back on track soon.

j_smi001, with what little lift I have in my foot, I too find it tightens up.
I was lead to believe that the muscles are so weak they tire real quick hence the tightening after a few lifts.
Are your EDLs and EHLs kicking in - the muscles that lift the toes and the big toe?

Also came across these guys for rehab equipment for the ankle.
The Pivot Table looks the most useful form here, but cheap it ain't and shipping fron the US to here in the UK ($129) makes it a non-starter for me.
http://www.performbetter.com/SearchResult.aspx_Q_CategoryID_E_369

Good to hear from G.Bronson and Max pwr too.

All the best for the weekend





 


Offline j_smi001

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Re: Any Peroneal Nerve recovery stories?
« Reply #227 on: February 24, 2007, 03:16:11 PM »
Thanks Stabso,  very clear explanations.  I do have my toes lifting up and normally my big toe fails to join them although it is starting to show signs of life.  I am very happy that I am continuing to make progress, regardless of how slow it may be.  I still wear my splint for work and outside as I think I am a trip hazard waiting to happen.   I have noticed that when I try to dorsiflex the foot the toes now tend to dip down instead of up, but I can lift the toes when not dorsiflexing - not sure if anyone can follow that!

take care all x
2002 plica removal, chrondoplasty both knees and LR right knee. Derotational tibial osteotomy rt leg 07/04/06.  Awaiting for left leg to be rotated and have no more knee pain!

Offline mom444

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Re: Any Peroneal Nerve recovery stories?
« Reply #228 on: February 25, 2007, 01:47:46 AM »
Hello All,

Hope everyone is well.

Jacky, I just posted the link for the citation to the article.  The full artilce has to be accessed with a password through a medical database.  (Lot's of times you will just find citations online rather than full articles.  For ones not accessible through databases I have had to request print copies from local libraries.)

Well, Mom is trying to calm down and relax!  It's really been a rough week for us.  But I did some research on scar tissue and found that there are some over the counter things you can use.  Has anyone else heard of silicone sheets being used over scar tissue?  I guess this is something they have done for a while, they are supposed to shrink and soften scars. 

I am not sure if my daughter's scar would be a "keloid" scar or a "hyperthrophic" scar.  Both kind of look the same and both are hard.  I have heard that keloid scars are a bit more stubbon than hypertrophics but both still can, as Andre said, strangle the nerve.

I went to a surgical supply store looking for the silicone scar sheets and instead I found a similar product that is not silicone but is still a sheet to be worn over the scar.  it is called Gel Care and it has mineral oil in it, it is supposed to soften up the scar tissue.

I hope there are some kind of topical things we can to do help the scar, even if it is radiation therapy.

I hope she doesn't need another sugery.

The new physical therapist also mentioned ultrasound therapy.  I guess some therapists do that to break up scar tissue.

The new therapist is also going to try other methods on her such as acupressure, nerve stimulation, etc.

Thanks again for all of your thoughts and prayers and ours go out to you. 

Mother of a now six year old daughter with unexplained peroneal neuropathy/injury to the peroneal nerve resulting in footdrop.  Had surgery 7-06 including neurolysis to remove scar tissue/neuroma.  Wears AFO wtih dorsiflextion assist and is using EMG triggered biofeedback and TES awaiting recovery.

Offline amdre

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Re: Any Peroneal Nerve recovery stories?
« Reply #229 on: February 25, 2007, 04:01:08 AM »
Hey mom444,

I was discussing some of the treatments that i had under gone with me therapist...and as i said i to had problems with scar tissue bulid up.im nt sure your gender but she said that african americans tend to scar thicker and deeper so i required alittle bit more treatment to break up the scar tissue.the laser was used about 2 months after the surgery because my scar tissue was so bad that i had problems with my flexion and extension(which put me in surgery again to manually break it up) but also before the second surgery i saw another doctor who had performed a technique called "neuro flossing" to break up scar tissue and give the nerve "freedom" from the constant suffication.he was the same doc that gave me the neurosurgeons site where i was searching and found this site.i actually started seeing him again and i will get all the info on tuesday from him about where to get info on this.i have been lucky to know some people that have some history with these types of injuries and i promise i will soak every last bit of info out of them that i can and i will let you know what i can get.

Hey thanks alot Stabso for the best wishes...i am back and running again...but annoyingly i have to keep retapping my fibula head to shift it into position before i run or it will stab my ankle due to the stiffness around it. once its taped its fine but half an hour and i gotta rip some more hairs out.i might as well shave because my leg is al patchy due to the number of tape jobs i have had on it.

Hey hamish...hope things are going well wish you and everyone all the best.also sorry to all for the inconsistent posts i got switched to evenings at work so i train in the morning and work right after so i have been pretty exhausted. if i take i while to get back to you that is why. take care all

Also new lateral movement footage. first time they have allowed me to go 100% and do it laterally planting. i have to admit i was scared like hell when i first started and was very protective ..but after many attempts my brain got tired of protecting and i just started doing. this run i was very pleased with.
Dislocated knee in a Football game
Damage: Posterolateral Compartment,MCL Partial,IT band Tear,Popliteus tear,Hamstring and Peroneal Nerve Damage (Foot Drop)

Reapired in Surgery: Posterolateral Compartment Sept 17th/05
Scope Nov 20th/05, ACL Recon Sept 26th/06

Offline amdre

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Re: Any Peroneal Nerve recovery stories?
« Reply #230 on: February 25, 2007, 04:16:17 AM »
Hey Mom444,
http://www.iaom-us.com/archive/newsletter/nletterOld/news16/n16-appl.htm

 i did a quick search on neural flossing of the lower extremities. this site gives you generic information on the procedure.again i will find out the site my osteopath sent me to way back in the begining stages of recovery.
Dislocated knee in a Football game
Damage: Posterolateral Compartment,MCL Partial,IT band Tear,Popliteus tear,Hamstring and Peroneal Nerve Damage (Foot Drop)

Reapired in Surgery: Posterolateral Compartment Sept 17th/05
Scope Nov 20th/05, ACL Recon Sept 26th/06

Offline mom444

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Re: Any Peroneal Nerve recovery stories?
« Reply #231 on: February 25, 2007, 03:50:53 PM »
Hello Everyone,

Andre, thanks for the scar treatment info.  I forgot to ask, was your scar affecting the PERONEAL nerve or other parts that you injured?  I'm not an expert, but I"m nervous if they have to do surgery near the peroneal nerve because it is SO CLOSE to the surface and I'm afraid of them working too close to it.  Were you able to continue getting recovery after the surgery?  And also, you mentioned that your peroneal nerve started coming back more than 8 months after your injury/surgery?  What did EMGs say?

Remember, the neurosurgeon originally said that it could take months for recovery yet the EMG doctor said there should be more that has occurred by now.

We have an appointment with a plastic surgeon next Wednesday so hopefully we'll get some answers then about the scar.  And we are hoping to hear back from the neurosurgeon on Monday.  I'm still in shock and a little angry that the neurosurgeon gave us such completely different information than the other doctors and therapists.  When I asked him if we should be concerned about her scar he said, "Ah...  no."  And when I called and asked his nurse later on about how the other therapist was concerned about the scar tissue the nurse was kind of vague about saying anything.  I can't believe they didn't warn us about this!  This man is a professional surgeon and it doesn't make sense that he wouldn't seem to be concerned about scar tissue.

Yes, I have heard that darker skinned people are more prone to the keloid types of scars yet I have also heard that younger people are more prone to them.  My daugher is very, very pale skinned so I'm wondering is she is genetically more likely to get the other kind of scar called a "hyperthrophic" scar...  It's so confusing! 

I'm trying not to go too crazy over researching things but I think that finding information is good!

To Jacky, Stabso, Hamish, Max, and everyone else...  Good luck and hang in there!  We're all cheering you on.

Mother of a now six year old daughter with unexplained peroneal neuropathy/injury to the peroneal nerve resulting in footdrop.  Had surgery 7-06 including neurolysis to remove scar tissue/neuroma.  Wears AFO wtih dorsiflextion assist and is using EMG triggered biofeedback and TES awaiting recovery.

Offline amdre

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Re: Any Peroneal Nerve recovery stories?
« Reply #232 on: February 25, 2007, 06:02:08 PM »
Hey Momm444,

When i went under a week after surgery my OS said my peroneal nerve was crushed and looked pretty bad and that it should take months to heal if it is going to heal...my terapists felt that it was sufficated from the swelling scar tissue...and my EMG specialist said the exact same thing when i went for my first and second EMG..that they expected more and at my 8th month mark i ad only alittle bit of eversion and he said i had nothing and probaly not walk proper again. So i understand your confusion and anger....i felt like i wanted to pack it in so many times...because nobody knew more then the other person and it seemed like they would just tell me things to get rid of me and move on.until i started showing true signs of regeneration was when i started getting more straight answers. And in ansewr to your question it possibly could affected the peroneal nerve. when they started the flossing it was around the same time i started getting the "Dragons" not sure if it was because of the flossing but i wouldnt rule it out. that was within the first three months before my second surgery.my scar tissue was pretty stubborn as it adhesed to the torn ACL and caused flexion and extension problems. so that is why i think laser and the flossing helped free up any scar tissue....but 6 months...my therapists said the scar tissue might be to think by this point but it still wouldnt hurt to try. hope i answered your question and hang in there.
Dislocated knee in a Football game
Damage: Posterolateral Compartment,MCL Partial,IT band Tear,Popliteus tear,Hamstring and Peroneal Nerve Damage (Foot Drop)

Reapired in Surgery: Posterolateral Compartment Sept 17th/05
Scope Nov 20th/05, ACL Recon Sept 26th/06

Offline G_Bronson

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Re: Any Peroneal Nerve recovery stories?
« Reply #233 on: February 26, 2007, 01:10:21 AM »
Hello amdre,
I just want to tell you that reading your posts has lifted my spirits. I feel the same way when i see my OS. He is a great doctor and i am thankful for the work he did with my knee. However when i ask him about my nerve he is very negitive and to the point. It takes the wind out of my sales. My injury is similiar to yours except my nerve was stretched not crushed. But just knowing that it is possible to heal is motivating me. i just started physio, and i am a little over a month post op. The injury occured in a football game dec 26th '06. I have had "the dragon now for about three weeks. How long did it take you to feel pains like that. Is it really a positive sign? Sorry to hear about your setback hope you get through it. Can you walk without an AFO?

Momm444,
thanks for the well wishes, I can't imagine how you must feel. But just keep in mind that doctors don't really know a whole lot about nerve recovery and they aren't always right. Most cases like this are unique. Thats why none of them can give you a straight answer. The only factor that remains constant in all recoveries for this type is time. Positive thinking goes a long way in any type of healing. My mother runs the chemotherapy ward at the local hospital and she has helped me alot mentally since this happened to me. Usually the positive people recover. The Young do tend to heal better, always keep that in mind. Millions of people in the world heal everyday sometimes it just takes. I wish you all the best with your daugthers recovery.


take care everyone

Gordon     

Offline mom444

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Re: Any Peroneal Nerve recovery stories?
« Reply #234 on: February 26, 2007, 02:31:45 PM »
Thanks Gordon and everyone else!  Andre, I sent you a pm.

Today I should hopefully hear back from the neurosurgeon's office.  I have no idea what he'll say (or rather, what he'll have his nurse call and tell me...  Doctors always have to speak through a filter which makes it even more confusing.)

We have two appointments with the new physical therapist this week.  We'll see how that goes.

Then on Wednesday, the big meeting with the plastic surgeon.

SO MANY DOCTORS' APPOINTMENTS!

By the way, the gel pad that we have had her wear over her scar seems like it may in fact be softening up the skin!  Who knows?

Also, as a researcher I have to promote research  :)  Have any of you taken advantage of the library or other places to access some of the research articles about your condition?  It really, really helps.  Sometimes you can find information in research studies that the therapists and doctors may not have mentioned.  And, after all, doctors themselves often do "literature searches" when they are getting ready to treat patients.  Again, you sometimes need a password to access them (you can ask your local library or local hospital library if you have access to one.)  Other times you may only find a citation online but you will then need to find a library that carries the print version of that journal.  I have found many articles about peroneal nerve injuries.

Gordon there have been many studies that specifically mention stretch injuries of the peroneal nerve.  I'll pm you if I find any more.

Blessings and best to you all!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2007, 02:45:51 PM by mom444 »
Mother of a now six year old daughter with unexplained peroneal neuropathy/injury to the peroneal nerve resulting in footdrop.  Had surgery 7-06 including neurolysis to remove scar tissue/neuroma.  Wears AFO wtih dorsiflextion assist and is using EMG triggered biofeedback and TES awaiting recovery.

Offline Max Pwr

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Re: Any Peroneal Nerve recovery stories?
« Reply #235 on: February 26, 2007, 10:58:59 PM »
Hi Everybody,

Does anyone have any idea what the best AFO's are for athletic activity?  I have one, plastic, goes up to nearly back of my knee with a hinge at the ankle.  The foot plate goes to the pad of my foot.  There are two velcro straps that keep it in place.  Are there better one's out there?  Amdre, do you know of any better ones out there?  Did you get a chance to run with one at all?  I'd love to start jogging a bit but the AFO I have is just not working for such an acitivity.  I can walk really fast so I up the incline on the treadmill but we all know it's not the same....

I think about you all everyday and hope you are all continuing to cope.  I had an EMG on Friday and although there was no specific information, it appears that things are getting better and that there are 'encouraging signs' (stated by the neurologist) but it's going to take a year!  Blah!  I'm still scheduled for surgery on the 21st to examine the sciatic/peroneal and clear any scar tisu

Take care everyone, talk to you soon!

Offline amdre

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Re: Any Peroneal Nerve recovery stories?
« Reply #236 on: February 27, 2007, 12:44:20 AM »
Hello amdre,
I just want to tell you that reading your posts has lifted my spirits. I feel the same way when i see my OS. He is a great doctor and i am thankful for the work he did with my knee. However when i ask him about my nerve he is very negitive and to the point. It takes the wind out of my sales. My injury is similiar to yours except my nerve was stretched not crushed. But just knowing that it is possible to heal is motivating me. i just started physio, and i am a little over a month post op. The injury occured in a football game dec 26th '06. I have had "the dragon now for about three weeks. How long did it take you to feel pains like that. Is it really a positive sign? Sorry to hear about your setback hope you get through it. Can you walk without an AFO?

Momm444,
thanks for the well wishes, I can't imagine how you must feel. But just keep in mind that doctors don't really know a whole lot about nerve recovery and they aren't always right. Most cases like this are unique. Thats why none of them can give you a straight answer. The only factor that remains constant in all recoveries for this type is time. Positive thinking goes a long way in any type of healing. My mother runs the chemotherapy ward at the local hospital and she has helped me alot mentally since this happened to me. Usually the positive people recover. The Young do tend to heal better, always keep that in mind. Millions of people in the world heal everyday sometimes it just takes. I wish you all the best with your daugthers recovery.


take care everyone

Gordon     

hey G_Bronson

Good o hear from you and i was also inspired in the same way that you say i have inspired you..and that i think is huge in recovery ..once you know that it is possible.in answer to your question about dragons i had them for about the first 3 months at an intense spark...then it took  a break and then continured for another two months with less pain and inconsistent sparking. i still get some to this day but it is becoming faded as time goes on.From what i hear it i positive i went through it and when then calmed down i started regaining motor functions....so i think the rumors may be true.Thanks frthe best wishes in regards to my setback..things have picked up again and the ankle is not bothering me for now.i do not wear an AFO brace anymore just an ACL brace. i have posted this before but if you click on the world under my screen name it will take you to a site where i post my recovery..in there i have a dorsi flexion tool that i used and other progression footage good luck in your recoveryand keep me posted...also do you wanna play again...are you competitive playing or just pickup?
Dislocated knee in a Football game
Damage: Posterolateral Compartment,MCL Partial,IT band Tear,Popliteus tear,Hamstring and Peroneal Nerve Damage (Foot Drop)

Reapired in Surgery: Posterolateral Compartment Sept 17th/05
Scope Nov 20th/05, ACL Recon Sept 26th/06

Offline G_Bronson

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Re: Any Peroneal Nerve recovery stories?
« Reply #237 on: February 27, 2007, 01:16:13 AM »
Hello amdre,
In response to your question i would like to get back playing sports again. but i don't know if i will risk it as most of the sports i played were phsyical, and i was a physical player. The only competeive sports i have played just before the accident were hockey and softball. The football game where i hurt my knee was just an annual ritual with my buddies on boxing day. It wasn't a tackle i just fell the wrong way on a pile of people. I would settle to recover enough to jog and hit the gym again. It depends on my recovery but i would like nothing more than to play hockey again! I don't think i will chance rugby or football ever again. But right now getting back to work is my greatest concern other than recovery. Thank you for your words of encouragement and good luck to you.

Offline Hamish9

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Re: Any Peroneal Nerve recovery stories?
« Reply #238 on: February 27, 2007, 11:42:03 AM »
Hi Guys,

Sorry I have been absent for a while but really been down in the dumps and struggled the last couple of weeks. I thought I was prepared for my ACL surgery and was almost looking forward to in a way in that it was another peice of the jigsaw in place but being knocked back to square one, being back on crutches, the pain and discomfort has been hard to handle. That is me 2 weeks post op now and just walking with one crutch when I have to go out and started Physio. I am still very uncomfortable but not really in pain so much. Maybe I wasn't as prepared as I thought I was but maybe you never are. Anyway thought of my foot and nerve have really taken a back seat at the moment as the concentration is on my knee.

Hi Gordon
Looks like we suffered very similar injuries, I did mine rugby training. The surgeon also said that I had stretched the nerve but it was still intact. I also have a lot of admiration for my surgeon but they will not comitt to how well you will recover from the nerve injury. I believe they will always give you the worst case senario but everyone heals and recovers differently. I think their philosophy is if you give the worst case then everyone will fall above that line and then there will be no comeback. I am now 6 months post injury and believe things have started to happen. I still have no movement but some feeling strating to move down my leg from the site of the injury and believe this is the nerve strating to repair itself. Are you still in a leg brace at the moment or have you managed to get rid of it? Wishing you the best and hang in there.

Hamish
Broke fibula and dislocated knee rugby training
Fibula repair and Posterolateral Corner reconstruction Sept 06
Footdrop
ACL reconstruction Feb 07

Offline mom444

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Re: Any Peroneal Nerve recovery stories?
« Reply #239 on: February 27, 2007, 11:49:25 PM »
Hello All,

What a day!

We started out this morning talking with the neurosurgeon...   And he was, to put it mildly, vague and almost clueless!  I'm not insulting the man, but he couldn't give us a straight answer about anything!

At first he thought maybe the scar was a problem.  Then he looked again and said, "Nah."  He thinks the hardness of the scar is actually the bone underneath it.  So he doesn't think we need to rush into another surgery to operate on the scar.  But he does want to do YET ANOTHER MRI of her leg.  That means she'll be put under general anesthesia again...

He also is vague and cluless regarding how long the recovery period should be.  He is bouncing back and forth between the nerve growing back from the spinal cord at an inch a month to the nerve growing back from the knee.

...Later one we saw our new physical therapist who did electric muscle stimulation, ultrasound massage and regular massage.  The new physical therapist still thinks we should watch the scar.

Tomorrow night we meet with the plastic surgeon.

But here is the clincher...  Guess who stopped by for dinner?  The dragon!  In fact, my daughter is on my lap right now and she is crying because her leg hurts.

This is all so bizzarre...

I hope you guys are all well. 

Mother of a now six year old daughter with unexplained peroneal neuropathy/injury to the peroneal nerve resulting in footdrop.  Had surgery 7-06 including neurolysis to remove scar tissue/neuroma.  Wears AFO wtih dorsiflextion assist and is using EMG triggered biofeedback and TES awaiting recovery.