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Author Topic: Sore VMO/thigh muscles with knee problems?  (Read 7546 times)

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Offline KarenS

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Sore VMO/thigh muscles with knee problems?
« on: June 20, 2005, 09:44:50 PM »
Is it normal to have soreness in the muscles of the thigh when having knee problems (i.e. chondromalacia, bursitis, tight IT band, etc.)? My physical therapist keeps making me nervous with little things he says. When he notices a soreness in my thigh muscles, he tells me that those muscles "shouldn't be sore." When I asked him if that was something that happens when having knee problems, he said, "I don't know."  >:( I have the world's weakest quads/VMOs at the moment due to overuse injuries that have gone on far too long and have kept me from being active (I've done next to nothing other than what I absolutely have to do in the past 9 months!). Doesn't it make sense that those weak muscles would get sore for whatever reason due to all that's going on in my legs?  ???

I seem to remember that the last time my cartilage was irritated for a period of time, I would get all kinds of odd sensations in my quads/VMOs until it finally resolved...
« Last Edit: June 21, 2005, 03:36:59 PM by KarenS »

Offline Nettan

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Re: Sore VMO/thigh muscles with knee pain?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2005, 12:09:49 PM »
Hey Karen !!

Soreness in thigh muscles, if I ever felt that ? You bet I have. I have struggled all my life with those sometimes impossibel excercises to strenghten my muscles around the knee.
I can hardly ever remember when not feeling this pain in thigh muscles.
I think though it's weird that your phys says he thinks this is not right.
And for me its sounds really like it's not unusual getting this if you have had weak muscles for so long and now try using them so much.
I hope you can get massage or something else to ease the pain. Worked good on my muscles together with warmth.
Wish you the best !!

Hugs Nettan  8)
Surgery 6 times left knee torn meniscus, RSDS,chondromalacia, nervdamage cause constant nervpain,chronic inflamm.
Spinaldamage wheeler 100%.
Right knee damaged aug-06, use brace surgery 4/9-07.LCL tear.

Offline KarenS

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Re: Sore VMO/thigh muscles with knee pain?
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2005, 12:40:06 PM »
Thanks, Nettan. :) I think maybe the reason he doesn't think they should be sore is because I'm really not exercising them at the moment (other than trying to walk around more when my knees feel better). He's trying to work on loosening my IT band, massaging the bursitis and tarsal tunnel that I've developed before working on getting muscle back. Until these things get under control, even quad sets are irritating my knees (and my whole leg!).

Offline sparkle999

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Re: Sore VMO/thigh muscles with knee pain?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2005, 02:46:45 PM »
Try a self massage before doing your exercises. I use olive oil (because I have that in the home anyway) and it really helps warm up the muscles and knee. It doesn't really matter HOW you do it, just keep rubbing and mobilising.
hope this helps
xx
35 y/o
ACL rupture
loose body under kneecap
impaction fractures
injury 19th march 2005
scope 9th may
recon 24th october 05

Offline KarenS

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Re: Sore VMO/thigh muscles with knee pain?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2005, 03:35:57 PM »
That's a great idea about the oil -- thanks! But I'm really not exercising my thigh muscles directly yet, until I get the rest of my leg problems under control. That's why I was asking if it was normal for the muscles to be sore sometimes (mostly when you rub them). So, no one has any sort of answer for this? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?  ;)

Offline sparkle999

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Re: Sore VMO/thigh muscles with knee problems?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2005, 10:02:06 PM »
whilst starting to get my inner quads firing (some weeks after the injury) the muscles were very sore indeed to massage. My PT said the muscle can really knot up if it isn't used and the massage, though quite painful, still felt good if you know what I mean. She really pressed into the sore point and they went bright pink, but the increase in my flexion and overall function made it definitely worth it. I don't know how long your muscles 'wasted' for. I would have thought that just tensing your quads while sat with your legs out in front was okay for most problems. It's a surprisingly effective muscle builder.

Anyhow, hope you get to feel better soon. If the soreness is quite localised then it's perhaps these trigger points my PT was convinced I was developing and treated by the massage.
Take care
xx 
35 y/o
ACL rupture
loose body under kneecap
impaction fractures
injury 19th march 2005
scope 9th may
recon 24th october 05

Offline KarenS

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Re: Sore VMO/thigh muscles with knee problems?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2005, 12:48:45 AM »
Thank you -- that was helpful! My quads have been wasted for about 5-6 months now. I think the biggest problem that's causing me problems while doing quad sets is my very tight IT bands. The acupuncturist is working on it, but even she said that it could take some time for those to loosen up. It seems to be causing lots of problems throughout my entire legs -- when I rub the sore areas in my thighs, I can actually feel tingling in my ankles and feet! I guess it just goes to show that everything is connected in some way. :-\

Offline Boydy

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Re: Sore VMO/thigh muscles with knee problems?
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2005, 01:56:32 AM »
Hey Karen'
 yes I too have got that sore thigh muscle, mine is not a sorness from exercise, it is just sore. It is also  numb, if that makes any sense, (it is numb on the surface, but the soreness is deep). My PT seems to think it was from the tornique during surgery, or the femoral pain block I had in my thigh. ( But I think that is just a guess, he really has no idea) Anyway, he believes in trying to massage the area, ( as does my acupunturist ) but unlike the other responses , this tends to swell my knee up even more. ( I  responded yesterday to your recent reply to me in the other section in more detail about this very subject). From what I have been reading, I am surprised that your PT has said not to do any sort of quad work, as I am thinking that has so much to do with our knee problems. But I am still very new to all this and am still trying to work out what to do and what not to do.  Long process hey. Good luck,
Boydy
Arthroscope to repair meniscus tear, 10/04
Arthroscope for Lateral Release & repair another medial meniscal tear, 2/05
"Time heals all wounds"
Gosh I sure hope so !!

Offline KarenS

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Re: Sore VMO/thigh muscles with knee problems?
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2005, 02:15:15 AM »
Hi! Yes, I got your response, and I'll send you another note soon. :)

The reason my therapist is holding off on the quad exercises is because I'm trying to get the other issues in my legs sorted out a bit first. Where doing only 10 quad sets irritated my entire leg and flared my knees up again the next day (that's 10 REPS -- not 10 sets of 10 reps!), he's waiting a bit to see if we can get my IT band loosened first. I think both he and the acupuncturist think that this is the root of my problem and the reason the irritated cartilage won't resolve (exercising irritates my knees...but not exercising is stressing my knees, too -- UGH!).

Offline Boydy

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Re: Sore VMO/thigh muscles with knee problems?
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2005, 12:36:10 PM »
Karen,
please uxcuse my ignorance, but I am having trouble working out all these terminologies, ' What exactly is an  IT band ( the problem you seem to have ). It is interesting ,because you seem to have a lot of the same problems as me, when you say you have problems if you do 10 reps, ( your knee plays up ) what does it do ?  Pain, or swelling or both ?  What are the symptoms you are experiencing from an IT band ( whatever that is ) . I am going back to see my PT on Monday, so would be interested to find out more on this so as to question him about it.Hope to hear from you soon
Boydy 
Arthroscope to repair meniscus tear, 10/04
Arthroscope for Lateral Release & repair another medial meniscal tear, 2/05
"Time heals all wounds"
Gosh I sure hope so !!

Offline KarenS

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Re: Sore VMO/thigh muscles with knee problems?
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2005, 05:37:17 PM »
The IT band is the iliotibial band (tendon) which runs from your hip down to the bottom of the outside of your knee. So, basically, when this gets injured, you have tendinitis. Tendinitis is tough to get rid of. Oddly, my therapist doesn't think my IT band is a major problem at all...but my acupuncturist only has to touch the area on both thighs gently to feel that it's "VERY tight." She had gotten it to loosen up a bit, but after spending three hours in my hair dresser's chair with my legs hanging (I stupidly didn't ask for him to rig something up for me so I could put my legs up), the right side tightened up a lot again, according to the acupuncturist yesterday. :(

Initially, I had aching on the outside of each knee. The OS I was seeing at the time attributed it to the fact that I was trying to increase my activity.  ::) Even the OS I have now (more knowledgeable and experienced than the last) is so focused on the chondromalacia aspect of my problem that he is ignoring other possibilities, like this. It's very frustrating...especially when the acupuncturist feels very strongly that it's causing half of the problems I'm having and my PT doesn't necessarily agree.  ;)

Anyway, now I'm noticing a soreness all along the IT band (outside of my thigh) and an aching/soreness in both hips. Rubbing the sore areas in my thighs sends tingles down to my ankles and feet -- AHA! Now I know why I have those "mysterious" ankle symptoms (tingling and pressure). The acupuncturist feels there's nothing wrong with my ankles -- my lower leg/feet symptoms are coming from the IT band problem. UGH... this is so frustrating!

Well, I hope something I said helped. I would definitely mention it to my therapist if I were you. It doesn't hurt to check to see if that's part of your problem. Press with your fingers firmly all along the outside of your thigh and see if it's sore, too.

Oh, and the quad sets would make my knees ache (starting on the outside of each knee)...and by the end of the day, my entire legs and feet would be aching. I'd have to take Tylenol to make it subside. And the next morning, my knees would be "acting up" again (they feel warm and inflamed when I wake up, so I need to elevate them and ice them before I can start my day!).

I sent you another note, by the way. :)