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Offline NikkiE

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exercise regimes
« on: December 22, 2004, 09:13:25 AM »
Hi All,

I was wondering what sort or exercise regimes people have.

I have been told anything that is high impact is out.

Various people I have spoken to have been a bit vague on whether or not walking is all right. I know that it's necessary to do some sort of weight-bearing exercise for bone health, so how do people balance it out? Is the elliptical machine ok for example. At the moment. I mainly cycle (stationary) and do weights, along with the rowing machine and occasional swim. I find the thought of being restricted to these forms of exercise forever a bit boring.

As an ex jogger, I am finding the thought of never running again as long as I live a bit difficult to come to grips with. I have a very minimal amount of pain at the moment, full range of movement, no stiffness and think I'm in pretty good shape so far, considering. So I am wondering whether or not I could manage a short 1-2 km run every so often without too much damage being done.

I am in the process of getting some orthotics, and have been losing weight. I still have a fair bit (12 kilos) to lose, but after I have achieved this, would the occasional run (maybe even on sand) kill me? After all, I'm told the joint is going to pack it in within 5 years anyway, so why not do something I really, really enjoy while I still can?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2004, 09:17:52 AM by NikkiE »
Chondromalacia in right knee for 13 years. 

OA in medial section of right knee, almost bone on bone.

OA in medial section of left knee

Offline Scooby

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2004, 05:44:14 PM »
Hi Nikkie

This may not be of much help to you but at least I can sympathise!

I had a microfracture a week ago to try to correct a full thickness loss of articular surface on my medial condyle, caused by a sports injury and now have to spend 6 weeks on crutches non weight bearing and then a few months taking it easy.

I am a keen hockey player and have been told by my specialist that I should hang up my boots and not to do any impact sports.  Like you, I don't really want to do this as I still consider myself as young (33) and would like to keep playing as long as possible, but is it worth making the knee worse?  I have still not come to a decision on that one and will wait to see if the microfracture heals and how the knee feels.

I also feel that presumably my knee is only going to get worse from now on so why not continue the hockey - as you say the thought of doing nothing more exciting than swimming seems a bit tedious.

I am certainly no expert, but I think a little gently exercise is encouraged to keep the joint moving and healthy but not to overdo it.

I hope you get a more specific answer and it may help me too!

Scooby
20/12/04   Left knee microfracture
8/6/10      Right knee microfracture, plica removal and high tibial osteotomy with external fixator

Offline NikkiE

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2004, 11:04:24 PM »
Dear Scooby,

Thanks for your reply.
Its awful isnt it, the dilemma of do I do what I love while I can or save my joints for a rainy day?

I used to see people in their 70's in fun runs and think "that's gonna be me one day". I thought I would be running right until old age. Or that I at least wouldnt get arthritis until old age. And that running would help extend my longevity!

The thing is that painwise I am in very good shape. I have read some horror strories from people on these boards and it makes me afraid for the future.

Perhaps it's better to err on the side of caution. But I just got a new puppy and I want to able to run and play with her!!

Take care and I hope maybe that medical science will one day make it possible for us all to play again. (but we may be too old by the time that happens anyway!! :)
Chondromalacia in right knee for 13 years. 

OA in medial section of right knee, almost bone on bone.

OA in medial section of left knee

shadehawk

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2005, 03:52:08 PM »
Well, I am one of those people who have weight-bearing pain and find low impact is all that is tolerated by my knees.

I do PT exercises three times daily and if it creates bad pain then I will take off one session and rest and ice and heat.

I do half arcs, calf stretches, leg pulls, straight leg raises and heel slides.  I am not to do step, squats or lunges.  

I have done this routine since 2001.  I hear you about the dog thing, I would love to be able to walk our terrier again.  
« Last Edit: January 08, 2005, 03:53:59 PM by shadehawk »

Offline nicole

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2005, 06:26:42 PM »
I had this dilemma/decision to make three years ago.  I have a mostly torn ACL and had meniscal tears in my left knee and after the scope OS said my knee was "toast".  I asked what I should do to keep the OA from getting worse and he said about the only thing that would stop it would be to sit on the couch and do nothing.  I was 30 at the time and about to start playing football (American).  Two weeks later I told him my decision was to keep playing sports because if I quit then, it wouldn't mean that I could play later, it just meant I would never play again. So I would keep playing until I couldn't play anymore and let my memories keep me company in my wheelchair when I'm 40.  
Since then I've had another scope and am about to start Synvisc injections.  But I've been playing football since then as well and my team won the national championship this past year (like the superbowl for women's football).  I  wouldn't trade the experiences I've had the past three years for anything.
I'm now getting to the point that the pain is bad enough I might not be able to play football anymore, but I'm not giving up on sports entirely.    I'll find something else competitive to play because that is who I am.

That's just my story, not that you should make the same decisions but just so you can see that side of it.
Good luck,
nic

shadehawk

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2005, 07:06:16 PM »
Congrats on the win.

I am not in your category of athlete, but I rode and trained my horses.  I have not been able to ride anymore due to the knee problems, but I still think that I can be more active if I see the right knee specialist.  I used to play alot of basketball, cross country ski, hike, skidoo, quad,  & swim.  This is why when a doc says learn to deal with it - I think there must be something like a scope or something else instead of this defeatist attitude that I am hearing.  I have never been a quitter in my entire life and the more someone tells me I can not do that;  the more I want to do it.

I believe a person can not just give up and become a couch potato if they have a certain determination.  I am not happy just loafing around and will keep trying to find someone to treat my knee condition.  That is why I continue to do these boring exercises so I won't loose all my muscles and quads.

I wish you all the best and agree with you totally, but I did reach the point where I could no longer even get onto my horse without help and without using your knees it is pretty hard to ride a horse.  

« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 09:02:37 PM by shadehawk »

Offline coyote

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2005, 11:45:36 PM »
 In my  early twenties I used to be pretty aggressive and competitive, skiiing moguls, volleyball,  and had to rely on naprosin for pain. After my first surgery I adjusted my exercise to  using a little more caution. I still would ski,  but now I rarely take chances and always ski in control, so I'm not falling.
I can't run, jog or do volleyball anymore. I love swimming and have been a competitive swimmer and scuba diver. - no knee pain there.  I also started doing pilates before my last surgery and only had to modify a few of the poses. I love the elliptical machine at the gym!
I also enjoy walking  and I am hopeful that my last surgery will make it less painful.
I think we all need to way the benefit versus the harm  in choosing to participate in impact activities.  Falls can have really scary consequences. I fell in June and spent the whole summer barely moving- I couldn't even swimm as the swelling was so bad.
I  suggest that people who have a new diagnosis try out a few new activities that are knee friendly. And continue the old exercises a little wiser, if possible. As many on this thread stated- chances are they will not be getting any better.


Here's to strong knees!
Cheryl
:-/
In full recovery!, (with a touch of arthritis during climate changes...)

Cheryl

Osgood Slaughter RK  12 yrs old
Lateral release LK 25 yrs old followed by 5 years in knee heaven
years of pain, naprosin and falls
moderate osteoarthirtis, subluxation
TTO , LK,  11/08/04

Offline NikkiE

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2005, 06:08:59 AM »
Hi,

I actually spoke to my physiotherapist about my little dilemma, and she cautiously said "if it was hr knee, she'd probably run on it", but only once a fortnight. I took this to mean that my PT, who is very sporty, wouldnt be willing to give it up either. She also stressed that low impact sports, muscle strenthening etc have all proven to be extremly helpful in management of the disease.

I've decided on this: I am going to lose a stack of weight and spend lots of time in the gym strengthening everything. THEN I am going to try some short runs on sand and see how it goes.

That means at least 3 months from now though, so will let you know if the sky falls in then!

Thanks for all your interesting and useful posts everyone!
Chondromalacia in right knee for 13 years. 

OA in medial section of right knee, almost bone on bone.

OA in medial section of left knee

Offline cat123

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2005, 07:13:32 PM »
Hi Nikkie

I ran at a good level for 21yrs, training very hard at times. I injured my knee running 3 yrs ago,it just felt as if i had been hit with a brick and could not put any weight on it for 8 wks,after 18mths the os said it was a lession on my cartalige and i am now waiting on aci, now i am unsure if i go ahead or postpone it due to still being able to exercise in the gym most days and run now and again on good days.Keeping your weight down is very important,also i would not consider running on sand ever with dodgy knees,stick to t-mill,grass or trails.For the record i dont think i could ever think about not running another step again as i just love running.

cat
« Last Edit: February 08, 2005, 07:23:21 PM by cat123 »
c a t

Offline NikkiE

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2005, 06:17:51 AM »
I know, running is awful hard to give up isnt it? I wasnt ever a great athlete or anything, but there's something about the feeling of strength and power it gives that makes it several cuts above any other type of exercise.

I was wondering why you said not to run on sand? The only reason I was going to do this was because I thought that it would be less jarring on the joints that a firmer surface.

Cheers
Chondromalacia in right knee for 13 years. 

OA in medial section of right knee, almost bone on bone.

OA in medial section of left knee

Offline Heavy_Harry

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2005, 07:27:20 AM »
Hello

I prefer walking then jogging.....As I have heard some people who's   constantly  pounding the pavement can busted up their knees or aggravate a old injury.  i have tried swiming except it been too cold in the pool had to wear a wet suit and coped some funny looks from other swimmers, plus it aggrvated my knee injuries so much I gave it away. Walking or taking a stroll is the right excerise regime for me, I also  like to do a bit of toning work at the local gym to top it off.

I walk  5 days a week and train weight  1 day  for a hour  and there is a  day alloccated for me to fall to peices with, a lazy day for me to lounge around !
 

Offline pomo2000

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2005, 08:04:05 PM »
Sand might be okay. Why not try aqua jogging or aqua walking? Anything you do in water immediately reduces the weight bearing and impact.

Offline avonldy

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2005, 05:41:16 AM »
Swimming is great if you can find a heated pool.  I found that the cold water made my knees hurt more.  If I were you, I think that I would save my knees rather then wear them out at a young age.  Rather then run with your dog, have some knee left when you have to run after your children.  At age 23, I had trouble getting up and down off the floor to play with my baby.  Later, I had to let others take them on hikes because my knees wouldn't allow me to even walk more then 2 blocks.  I remember giving my daughter rides on my lap as I sat in the wheelchair.  I couldn't chase after her on crutches.  When your young, you don't think about the future. Before you decide to ignore your OS and just live for today, give some thought about the future and the loved ones who will be hurt by your actions.

Offline Heavy_Harry

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2005, 07:17:17 AM »
Hello People

The community center has developed a excerise group to strengthen the "core" muscles in the hips, knees and arms and trunk. The idea is prevent the onset osteoprorise[?] spelling not sure. I am doing it because I know I got weak legs all round.

We use leg weight to train the hips, legs and knee muscles. Then we use arm weights to train the arm muscles. Most of this is light weight training focusing on building muscle and trading fat to muscle. As some people wonder why climbing stairs get harder as we get older. The answer is our leg muscles waste away with disuse. Since the good ole motor car came in action. Some people do very little walking as some people insist in driving from A - B.

Whist it is faster our leg muscles are wasting away as we pefer driving to walking. Plus taking esclators or lifts then using stairs makes it obivous that you legs arn't as fit as it used to be as it would ache after doing several flights. Or going to musuems and walking around and having to sit down after awhile and getting tired.

Me I notice my legs are very vurnable since I stuffed em. The programe is aimmed for those with bad joints, arthritis and other aliments and weight control etc.

Offline rru2s

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2006, 05:06:02 PM »
I have a bad knee due to a damaged meniscus, and the shock from jogging is painfull.

Since I was a distance runner for 28 years (3 times a week, 10 to 15 miles each run, 32,000 miles total) I am unwilling to give up totally on running for the rest of my life.

I found a website, www.posetech.com, which teaches a better way to run with less impact on your knees.  Basically, you don't heel strike, but constantly lean forward to the point where you just feel like you are falling and let your leg drop directly downwards, not forward of you, and land on the ball of your foot directly beneath your center of gravity with knee slightly flexed, maybe let the heel barely kiss the ground, then quickly pull up your heel straight upwards, instead of pushing off, and start the falling pose again.  You run with very rapid cadence (180 steps per minute).  A study estimated that knee impact shock during pose running is reduced to 60 percent of that during normal heel strike running. 

I have found that pose running is a tremendous workout, it feels like sprinting intervals, but without all the shock.  It takes a while to get used to it and you must first gradually strenghen your calves and Achilles tendon to avoid injury.  Much of the shock that used to be absorbed through the knee is now absorbed in the calves and Achilles, so they need to be strong.

So I still get the runners adrenalin rush from doing 5 sets of 0.33 mile sprints, with 0.15 mile recovery walk in-between.  But I only do this twice a week, so the total mileage is very minimal (1.65 X 2 = 3.3 miles per week, much less than my old 30 to 40 miles per week).  I burn the bulk of my calories now on the Cybex Arc Trainer, a front wheel drive elliptical machine, which I use at a very high resistance for 100 minutes X 3 days per week, or 5000 calories a week.

That is how I manage to get a high quality runners workout of very high intensity, with less impact, and keep the total miles to a minimum, but do other non-impact aerobics for total cardiovascular health and calorie burning.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2006, 05:15:11 PM by rru2s »

Offline femur

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2006, 09:53:12 AM »
I know this hasnt been talked about in a couple months, but i also use to run. I played soccer my whole life. I was training to go into the sheriffs dept when i was in my accident and told i could never run again. That was three years ago.
To this day i still cannot run and even if i try i am in so much pain later, with the whole schin splints pain also.
I just was at the doc not to long ago and he said if i want to spare my knee for the long run than i can only swim laps ( boring) and ride a bike. Oh and i cant also run laps in the pool.
so i have been riding a bike and noticing a differance, but i still dont get the same feeling as if i were running.
basically we need to act like we are 80 years old to save our knees for when we really are 80.
good luck.
22 f
broke right femur in 03
several surgerys on right knee since
no cartilage in right knee under patella.
Having OATS 2.20.06

Offline NikkiE

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2006, 11:16:50 PM »
Hi all

rru2s - I have heard of the Pose method, did you learn from a book/off the website, or did you actually attend a workshop. I think Dr Romanov is coming here to Austarlai in the near future, but the workshop is quite pricey.

Femur - that's what grates: having to act liike an eighty year old!! Anyway i'll just play devil's advocate here and say: How do we know we'll live to 80? And hopefully by then they will have worked out how to cure it!
Chondromalacia in right knee for 13 years. 

OA in medial section of right knee, almost bone on bone.

OA in medial section of left knee

Offline mystified

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2007, 05:04:18 AM »
I just want to put a plug in for cycling and swimming.  If you work on your technique in swimming, you can join a club, etc., it's truly a fantastic, superhard workout; or alternatively you can get in a groove with your stroke and completely zone out - I think it's because of the ways in which you have to coordinate your breathing.  And while I also find cycling indoors a bit tedious, it's totally fantastic outside.  If you were willing to run in snow/terrible heat, the same can be true for bicycling.  I'd rather keep my own knees as long as possible and enjoy two new sports.  After 3 years without running, I'm thinking of upgrading my bike and maybe even buying a triathlon wet suit so I can swim outside into the fall/early in the spring.

Offline aliasgrace26

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2007, 02:00:17 PM »
How is everyone doing with their exercise regimes? I continue to go to PT for my chronic issues, and also go to aqua aerobics classes twice per week, and altnernate b/w low resistance stat. bike, rowing machine, and elliptical. OH! And I tried kayaking for the first time last weekend. It's so nice to know there are some things I can do strictly for the upper body to give my poor knee some sort of break...
How do you all get through the pain while exercising on 'bad' days?
Tibigal platea fx. 12/98
Subsequent poor medical care that did not detect fx. immediately
Rigorous PT once fx. was diagnosed
Arthroscopy in 11/99 to trim plica and remove scar tissue
Chronic pain for 5 years, then a reprieve for 3
Return of pain/stiffness 2/07, in pain mgt., awaiting answers

Offline jb-knee-geek

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Re: exercise regimes
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2008, 08:37:25 PM »
torn RK ACL March 2001, surgery Aug. 14 2006, after 4 knee sprains since Oct. '05.  Allograft, ~40% medial meniscus removed, some wear in the trochlear groove. Everything else looks good.

Post-op diary: http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEtalk/index.php?topic=29749.















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