KNEEtalk

The REHAB DEPARTMENT => Soft Tissue Healing Problems - Arthrofibrosis => Topic started by: DogfacedGirl on October 08, 2019, 04:02:45 AM

Title: The problem with NSAIDS
Post by: DogfacedGirl on October 08, 2019, 04:02:45 AM
Many of us are in pain, and take NSAIDS (non-steroidal anti-inflammatories) regularly. I have mentioned before that these can increase fibrosis if taken long term, including fatal conditions such as heart disease (heart fibrosis) and may contribute to arthrofibrosis (joint fibrosis). I can provide references if people are interested.
 
Today I saw a good summary of this at https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-10-pain-relief-alternatives-opioids.html?utm_source=nwletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-nwletter

Note that the heart, liver and kidney diseases mentioned are all forms of fibrosis, as AF is. The article also mentions Tylenol (Panadol) in relation to liver disease, but this is only an issue when more is taken than the recommended dose. It is the safest pain relief medication that I'm aware of if taken withing the limits.

Kay
 
Title: Re: The problem with NSAIDS
Post by: Clarkey on October 08, 2019, 04:40:57 PM
Hi Kay,

Glad to see that you come onto KG for updates on arthrofibrosis and NSAIDS that also have negative side effects to the body if taken too often. Refuse to have the flu jab that has been recommended in my new job supporting vulnerable adults with autism and LD. Never been keen to have something injected in my body that could lead to long term health problems. Only protects you against certain types of flu. My sister been an orthopaedic nurse for 30 plus years and has never had a flu jab. Personal choice at the end of the day as long as it not made compulsory that would violate consent to treatment in the human rights act.

[email protected] 
Title: Re: The problem with NSAIDS
Post by: DogfacedGirl on October 10, 2019, 02:24:53 PM
Thanks Clarkey, it's good to hear that things are going well for you :)

Kay
Title: Re: The problem with NSAIDS
Post by: masoud on October 13, 2019, 11:17:46 AM
Thanks Clarkey, it's good to hear that things are going well for you :)

Kay

Hi Keylay

NSAID prohibit the healing process for sure. They have also nasty side effects.  But steroids are very bad too I repeat very harmful because they weaken the bone, cartilage and tendons very fast.  so I think AF patients need some medications that target the inflammation and myofibrobalsts both. I don't personally know any kind of medicin which supress both or even only myofibroblasts=scar tissues?
Title: Re: The problem with NSAIDS
Post by: DogfacedGirl on October 16, 2019, 01:10:53 PM
Hi Masoud,

Yes, actually there is a news item today that says that corticosteroids can cause OA and joint collapse, and patients shoudl be advised of this. See https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-10-evidence-steroid-hip-knee-joints.html?utm_source=nwletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-nwletter

It is true, the only therapy that can be a cure for well established (long term) AF is to kill the myofibroblasts that cause fibrosis. Treatments to reduce inflammation may be able to prevent AF from becoming irreversible if given early after surgery, but once AF has developed the feedback mechanisms it is self-sustaining.

There is some very recent research into senolytics, drugs that target senescent cells and kill them. Any cell can become senescent, and wounds and chronic inflammation are known to make cells senescent. When this happens the cells pump out toxins and inflammation and harm healthy cells. These cells then cause all the diseases of aging, even in young people, and including fibrosis when the cells develop resistance to cell death and become immortal, like cancer cells do. 

So it seems that fibrosis is caused by myofibrobalsts that become senescent and immortal, and hang about creating problems. Researchers are just starting to trial senolytic compounds in humans, and there are several interesting candidates that are made by plants, and can be bought as supplements. There are some online forums where (mostly healthy) people are experimenting with supplements to kill senescent cells. I'm not suggesting that anybody tries this because it is not tested in people yet. If anybody decides to try, take small doses first to test the effects.

Kay