KNEEtalk

DIARIES => Post-op diaries (<50 posts) => Topic started by: canyonking on April 11, 2014, 08:36:59 PM

Title: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on April 11, 2014, 08:36:59 PM
Background: 40 year old male, weekend warrior athlete. Crossfit, mtn biking, volleyball, weights, climbing, canyoneering, etc.

Lateral release left knee 08
Scope debridement left knee 11. Plan was to have microfracture but woke up to find that they decided it was too damaged to be of any good.

Scope with debridement right knee Dec 13
Cartiform cartilage graft right knee March 14

Ive been very physically active my whole life with no major injuries. Knee pain started creeping in my left knee in 07 and the lateral release helped me get quite a few more good years out of it. Right knee pain came on much more quickly (possibly from overcompensating). Had it scoped. Both knees have the exact same problem: osteochondral defects in both patellas but the rest of the knee is healthy. I had made the decision to get an arthrosurface partial knee replacement in the left knee by an OS who specializes in joint resurfacing in Park City. He suggested that even though the left knee looked worse, the right knee bothered me more and he had a biological solution: cartiform

Cartiform is a cartilage graft from a cadaver that is microfractured, sewn, and glued into place. It is made by a company called Osiris. It has only been out 6 months and I will have been his 6th patient. It sounds like it is similar to Denovo.

I had the surgery on the 19th in Park City and he said it went well. I'll include pictures for those that are fascinated by the stuff they come up with like I am. But be warned - graphic images - do not view while eating cafeteria corn dogs. The problem started that night when I started taking a little pill called xarelto - a blood thinner. I guess he was worried about me getting a blood clot. I took my pills like a good boy but little did I know that it would cause excessive bleeding into my leg for the next 10 days. I was in a dark hole for that time. I haven't cried that much since watching E.T. in the 4th grade. After the nerve block wore off they had me on 2 10mg oxycodone every 4 hours and a 12 hr release oxycontin.

After trying to convince the medical team that something was wrong multiple times I decided to see another orthopedic surgeon closer to where I live. His eyes went wide when he saw the swelling. He told me he was going to drain it and I would get instant relief. I was so excited as I have had this done on the other leg years ago. I couldn't have been more disappointed if there were no presents for Christmas when he pulled and pulled but got nothing. He said it had thickened now and it was too late to drain it. He told me to stop the blood thinner immediately and suggested that I might have to go back into surgery to have the hematoma "scooped" out. He likened it to a placenta.

The OS in Park City did not want to open me back up and basically said I would have to tough it out as my body would try to re-absorb all that blood. So, that's where I'm at right now. I got immediate relief after quitting the blood thinner and have started to improve ever since. I'm off the oxycontin as of day 10 and have reduced the others. Problem is, all of this has put me behind schedule. They wanted me to start the cpm (continual passive motion - think medieval torture device) machine at 50 degrees flexion. Basically, you strap your leg in and it bends your leg for you. I'm supposed to use it about 6 hours a day. I started it at 35 a week or more behind schedule. It felt like my knee would just burst and innards would spray all over the wall. But I really am doing better. I got up to 75 last night and when I'll start to go to rehab 3 times a week here next week.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on April 12, 2014, 07:08:00 PM
Started taking as much fish oil as possible yesterday. Have heard research of Dr's prescribing 10 to 15 grams a day (megadoses) to reduce inflammation in critical organs in patients. 14 huge pills equals about 4 grams. Also using some liquid I have mixed into a shake for dinner. I'm probably getting about 5 grams per day or so. I swear I've noticed a change in the size of the knee. It's still tight, but just smaller. Has anybody had experience with this?
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on April 12, 2014, 07:11:54 PM
Here is a picture of the cartilage graft. It's a new one called cartiform. It's microfractured in, sewn in (they dissolve), and glued in. I'm hopeful but skeptical that it will actually GROW into functional cartilage. Sounds miraculous actually. Time will tell. I doubt I will ever actually see it rather feel that it is working.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on April 15, 2014, 08:39:34 PM
April 13 15 Day 26-28. Benchmarks: Have been using only one crutch for the last 2 days. Started taking at least 5 grams of fish oil per day (4 pills 4 times a day + liquid in shakes). Ron at rehab said there was significant decrease in swelling in just 5 days. 1 & centimeters less diameter around the knee- said it was significant Im convinced its the fish oil hes skeptical. Still cannot sleep more than 4 hours in the night. One night I slept well I took one of my remaining 3 (now 2) 12 hour release oxycontin plus alterill natural sleeping aid plus 10 mg oxycodone plus halfway through the night ambien. Almost a full month now without a good nights sleep. Its really taking its toll. Benchmark: Rarely use the Breg polar ice care anymore. Only at night and even then only for a few hours its too uncomfortable to sleep with anymore. Down to using one icepack intermittently on the knee throughout the day. Benchmark: walked with no crutch and no brace today in the kitchen not bad either.

Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on April 28, 2014, 05:56:10 PM
5 & weeks benchmarks: Saturday slept through the night! Ony took 10 mg oxycodone and 1 full ambien and slept almost 9 hours. Have quit using the brace (am supposed to use it until Wednesday) and quit using crutches as well. Doing a lot more now. Pulled weeds on Sunday. Started the rowing machine on Saturday rowed 1,000 M in 5 minutes it hurt and was whimpering. Very next day got after it on the rower and pulled 1,000 M in 4:20. Walking much better now. Still limping but it wont be long now. Still bleeding from incision. Still wearing the compression sock. Pain is much better now. Use IB in the morning then 5 mg oxycodone around 3:00 then another 10 to go to bed. Total = 15 to 20 per 24 hrs. Can brake with the R foot but still trade off (lazy or comfort?)
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: diggz1 on June 02, 2014, 01:59:07 AM
Canyon King, just curious how your recovery is going as I have grade IV chondro in my right knee after 2 surgeries as well as chondro in my left knee as well as a bone spur and patellafemoral arthritis from overcompensating for so many years and may be interested in this procedure in the future. 
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: FlyingKnuckle on June 02, 2014, 05:08:03 AM
canyon king,

WOW what an oversight on the blood thinner that is scary. Your story makes my ACLr look like a walk in the park. Hope your doing better now that is some frightening stuff. Fish oil is awesome. I used it religiously after my surgery and it really helped with joint pain and kept my back from hurting while laying down so much. I don't take nearly as much as you but I take double the recommended dose. Keep at it.

FlyingKnuckle
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on June 05, 2014, 05:26:05 AM
Well I'm at week 11 today. The knee still looks huge (like a softball). The scar has finally quit weeping - only a week ago it was still oozing sanguinous fluid. The function continues to improve. It survived a weekend in Vegas with lots of walking and lots of dancing. I would go back to the room with it so tight though there would be swelling down to the ankle. I was just at rehab and my therapist thinks it's getting better. Riding a stationary bike is no problem and they even had me doing quarter squats on a bosu ball. I also use their pilates machine and use an ergonomic rower at the gym as well as kettlebell swings. I did 30 reps of stepping up and down an 8 inch riser. The patella pain seems to be gone. I'm hoping that means the graft "took". I have an appt. with my surgeon at the end of June. I'll post when I find out what he says. I just started riding my real bike today as well on the local bike paths (paved). So I feel like it's coming along but its still numb on the outside and huge like I said. I've also ordered some tumeric and joint vibrance to help with the inflamation. I think in another month or so I should be able to advocate for this surgery much more (hopefully).
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: pilsoo5861 on July 15, 2014, 10:18:31 PM
I would like to see your latest update.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on July 24, 2014, 05:45:24 PM
So I met with the surgeon about a week ago and he told me I was clear to jumprope, run, do partial un-weighted squats and get back on the trail for mtn. biking. Thinking I should start slow I planned to do a half-ride this last weekend but instead went to Cedar city for two days of riding back to back - the knee felt fantastic. Virtually no pain. The other knee hurt a lot more than normal instead ( I think it's a focus in priority of pain). Next day was fine as well, no pain, no nothing. 4 months and I'm really thrilled with it. The doc has ordered an MRI for it (I think he wants to see his handiwork). I told him I wanted to have the same thing done on the left knee within a year and he said fine. I tried to run a 1/4 mile and it definitely hurt then. Both knees - it was too painful and uncomfortable. So running's out for the time being. Jumping hurts as well. But again, it's hard to tell because the left hurts so much, but there was pain in the right during that. It's hard to pinpoint if it's soft - tissue pain which should go away or if it's joint pain. Other than those two things everything else feels great. I did 75 burpees in the gym with no pain! Stairs I can do just fine and even take two at a time with the right leg although I do that infrequently. It's still quite swollen and possibly permanently stained purple (looks like a bruise) he explained that it was staining from the iron in the blood from when I had the hematoma. He also said that it can actually take up to 2 years for the graft to reach full maturity. If it only gets better that's just a bonus as I'm very happy with it right now. I probably won't post again unless I hit a major milestone or anybody has any questions. Thanks.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: pilsoo5861 on July 26, 2014, 10:11:43 PM
thank you so much for your great posting, wish you will be fully recovered soon.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: willrunagain on April 06, 2015, 03:32:35 AM
Hi Canyonking,

I would love to hear about any progress since your last update. I am trying to push for this surgery as I also have a patellar defect
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on April 14, 2015, 09:55:14 PM
Overall, I've been very happy with having had this procedure. I'm actually saving up my sick time to have my other knee done this coming December. One hiccup has been that this past december, I went hiking and did quite a large jump from one boulder to another. When landing, I heard a click in my knee. I didn't have pain but the click persisted with every step. It's now been almost 3 months and that click is still there. I went to see the doc for a year follow up. The MRI he ordered a few months after my surgery revealed a "de-lamination". Where a part of the cartilage graft is lifting up. He said the graft hadn't failed, but that he wants to scope it to clip the lifted part off. He likened it to a hangnail and said that left untreated, it could tear farther and make it worse. I still have no pain in the knee and am looking at when to schedule the scope. Trouble is, my insurance resets in August. He doesn't advise that I wait that long, but money-wise, it makes a lot more sense. So I've kind of been taking it easy as far as sports goes. I still mtn bike a couple times a week (pretty hard) and the knee just feels so good. He also thinks there could be some overgrowth of cartilage in there that he would shave down during the scope so that is the next move.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: willrunagain on April 16, 2015, 02:53:01 PM
Sorry to hear about the delamination of the graft.  Hopefully the scope can settle that problem for you.  It sounds like everything else is going very well for you with the mountain biking and all. Congrats on that! Before your setback in December, were you able to do any impact sports without pain?
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on April 22, 2015, 05:30:12 PM
I didn't really play any impact sports, but I was playing pickleball. In the gym I was back to doing burpees, rowing, power cleans, etc. I even did a very low amount of air squats - all without pain. To be more specific, the pain under my patella was gone, there was and is still pain in the soft tissue (patellar tendon, etc.) that I think is a result of the trauma from the surgery. It has gone down quite a bit and I suspect over time it will go away all together.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: willrunagain on April 24, 2015, 08:02:53 PM
Many thanks for this information, Canyonking.  This blog has been super helpful. My first OS is only offering Denovo, but from my research it seems the tissue repair resulting from cartiform is superior to Denovo. I am making the 2 hour drive from Cincinnati to Indianapolis to see Dr. Jack Farr.  He is the closest OS to me that offers cartiform.

My last question is how was the insurance approval process for this procedure?  Since it is such a new procedure, I was wondering if you had difficulty getting it approved.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on April 28, 2015, 05:20:39 PM
Yeah, my OS prefers cartiform to denovo. I agree that the research shows more promising results from cartiform. The only issue I had with insurance was they would only authorize it at a certain hospital over the preferred hospital chosen by the OS. Weird though, as the hospital charged exorbitant fees for my stay there. I have Altius insurance and they covered the procedure fully. I plan on doing the same to my left knee this December. The surgery was hell, but the result was worth it by far. I wish you luck and success. Let me know if you have any more questions, and send updates if you get it done. Thanks.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: willrunagain on April 29, 2015, 03:04:48 PM
Well, I just saw Dr. Farr on Monday and he said I was a good candidate for Cartiform. He quoted me an 85% success rate, so I am inclined to proceed.  He sent the initial letter to my insurance, so I am waiting on approval for now.  He seems to be optimistic that my insurance will approve since cartiform falls under the same category as osteochondral allografting.  So I guess the waiting game begins.....
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: willrunagain on July 13, 2015, 11:24:09 PM
I just wanted to update anyone still following this thread that my insurance has approved the cartiform procedure for my patella defect.  I have scheduled the surgery for September 8th.  I will be starting my own post op diary once the big day gets here.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: pilsoo5861 on July 27, 2015, 03:08:29 AM
Thank you for your update. I esteem your smart and elaborate judgement, I wish you can run again after successful surgery with cartiform.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: pilsoo5861 on October 03, 2015, 03:03:22 PM
Yeah, my OS prefers cartiform to denovo. I agree that the research shows more promising results from cartiform. The only issue I had with insurance was they would only authorize it at a certain hospital over the preferred hospital chosen by the OS. Weird though, as the hospital charged exorbitant fees for my stay there. I have Altius insurance and they covered the procedure fully. I plan on doing the same to my left knee this December. The surgery was hell, but the result was worth it by far. I wish you luck and success. Let me know if you have any more questions, and send updates if you get it done. Thanks.
Hello! Canyonking!

I am wondering if your recent condition is more improving and having surgery schedule for your left knee. Please update!
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on October 05, 2015, 09:06:50 PM
I just love my right knee on which I had the cartiform graft on about a year and a half ago. Pain is all but gone. I just had it scoped 6 weeks ago. He removed a large piece of scar tissue and smoothed out the cartilage that was whispy after having grown in. It's smooth as butter now. It's not an 18 year old knee again but it's pretty damned good. I'm going to schedule having the left knee done this December. I get my MRI on it this month to make sure it's a candidate. Wish me luck!
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: willrunagain on October 06, 2015, 03:41:13 AM
Thanks for posting canyonking. It's great to see positive results especially when it comes to treating patella defects. I just had a cartiform graft implanted on my right patella 4 weeks ago. The first two weeks we're definitely rough, but I'm hopeful it'll be all worth it. Please let us all know if you are candidate to get your left knee fixed with cartiform too!
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: pilsoo5861 on October 06, 2015, 04:02:17 AM
I just love my right knee on which I had the cartiform graft on about a year and a half ago. Pain is all but gone. I just had it scoped 6 weeks ago. He removed a large piece of scar tissue and smoothed out the cartilage that was whispy after having grown in. It's smooth as butter now. It's not an 18 year old knee again but it's pretty damned good. I'm going to schedule having the left knee done this December. I get my MRI on it this month to make sure it's a candidate. Wish me luck!
Great! Thanks! Congratulations! I really wish you lots of lucks with your left knee.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: jjackish on October 11, 2015, 08:09:35 AM
Can you not directly message members of this forum?

Canyonking, I was wondering if you can say who your OS is.  I may like to meet with Dr. Farr or someone else with experience in Cartiform.

Also, does anyone know of any other similar forums like this?

Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on October 13, 2015, 03:25:54 AM
My OS is Phil Davidson based out of SLC Utah. He had the only experience of anyone I searched. I don't know of any other forums like this.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: dal_knee on October 14, 2015, 10:27:50 PM

Jjackish,

You need at least 20 posts before you can send private messages to forum members.   

Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: pilsoo5861 on January 31, 2016, 03:41:12 PM
I just love my right knee on which I had the cartiform graft on about a year and a half ago. Pain is all but gone. I just had it scoped 6 weeks ago. He removed a large piece of scar tissue and smoothed out the cartilage that was whispy after having grown in. It's smooth as butter now. It's not an 18 year old knee again but it's pretty damned good. I'm going to schedule having the left knee done this December. I get my MRI on it this month to make sure it's a candidate. Wish me luck!

Hello! Canyonking!

We are ansciously wondering about your recent conditions and situations, please update!
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on February 02, 2016, 05:46:23 PM
Well my right knee is coming up on two years now and I've just been so happy with it. I try to stretch it a couple of times a week as the surrounding tissue is still swollen and tight - even after 2 years! I don't have full range of motion (can't touch my heel to my butt). Lack of flexibility seems like a small side effect considering I really have no pain in the knee anymore. I can get up from a full squat with no pain. It grinds some but I now have cartilage where before I had none. That's the good news.

The bad news is I had planned to do the same for my left knee. After reviewing the MRI Dr. Davidson concluded there was too much damage done to the trochlear groove to put a cartiform graft in. He said having it against an irregular surface would damage the graft. He proposed to do the graft and do an arthrosurface inlay in the FTG(femoral trochlear groove) at the same time. It would have been his first one. I was fine with it, but insurance was not deeming it experimental. My work has since switched insurance companies and my new one - Select Health - will apparently not even cover cartiform at all.

So....the current plan is to undergo surgery and just get the ftg inly put in. I'm really not motivated as all of my pain and most of the damage is in the patella and not the TG anyway. So it's a little less recovery time for not a whole lot of benefit. Dr Davidson thinks this will provide some relief as the patella will now be in contact with a smooth surface and leaves options for the future. Problem is, in the future, I may not have insurance that will cover cartiform. He suggested an OATS procedure for the patella in the future but from what I've read, they don't seem to have great success. Anybody out there have experience and an opinion on osteochondral allograft or autograft? I'd love to get some feedback.

I was just so happy with the cartiform that anything else now feels like second best. Not to mention that basically I'll have to go through 2 major surgeries and recoveries rather than one. And once August rolls around, my deductible and out of pocket will reset and will be back to $5,000 for any second surgery I choose to proceed with. Ughhh.....

P.S. someone sent me a private message but I can't respond back. Apparently I need more posts?
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: Vickster on February 02, 2016, 05:57:49 PM
You need 20 posts before you can PM. Can get your numbers up in the games room, but make sure you are au fait with the rules before joining in :)
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on February 02, 2016, 06:17:51 PM
Games room, thanks.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: pilsoo5861 on February 02, 2016, 10:47:25 PM
Dear, Canyonking!

Thanks for updates, really sorry for not to help you.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: poohray32 on February 09, 2016, 03:42:50 AM
My OS preferred Cartiform surgery over Denovo as well.  BCBS covered my procedure 100%
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on February 09, 2016, 11:23:50 PM
BCBS? An insurance company?
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: poohray32 on February 10, 2016, 01:13:13 AM
Yes sorry. Blue cross blue shield of Michigan.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: paladyr on August 14, 2016, 01:19:50 AM
Hey canyon thanks for the updates! Are you able to jump as high as you can?
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: jess07 on September 13, 2016, 09:47:05 PM
Is cartiform only for osteochondrol defects or just chondral defects as well?
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on September 19, 2016, 08:35:14 PM
Not sure on your question. Meaning would it be good for meniscus as well or something? I don't think so. The procedure is done in conjunction with microfracture (mine was at least) where they get the bone to bleed in order to fuse your own cells with that of the new tissue. I'm just making assumptions though.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: taylob on October 27, 2016, 02:12:19 PM
Canyonking:

I have been trying like crazy to get a scoped image of Cartiform after it's been in the knee for a while, and I know you had yours scoped after the graft had been in there a year. Could you share your scoped image, if you have one.

How is the inlay going? I haven't heard from you anything on this, and I'm hoping it's working out. Not hearing from you has me worried for you. I know Dr. Davidson is a master of inlays, so hopefully it went well for you.

Thanks so very much for all the posts. You're now about 2.5 years with the graft, right?  That's fantastic!
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on October 30, 2016, 02:35:54 AM
The graft on the right knee is fantastic. I can mash the peddals on the mountain bike with no problem. Just hiked 2,600 vertical feet in 2 miles. Climb on weekends. All is good there. My leg muscles have come back and quads look good. The inlay has been about 8 months. To start off with, it was nice and smooth through 80 degrees range of motion. Now, it grinds like a joint full of gravel. Hurts on most activity as well. No problems with the inlay, but the underside of the patella is still atrocious so there it is. I'll wait at least another year to possibly visit an entire covering of cartiform on the left kneecap. I need to accrue more sick leave and have had enough of surgeries for a while. Ibuprofen is doing the trick for now. I typed up a whole journal of my inlay surgery and recovery just never got around to posting it. It wasn't so bad really. I was back to mtn biking within 2 months or so. I do have pictures, I'll just have to find them and post them.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on October 30, 2016, 03:07:26 AM
Here are some pics of the scope about 1& 1/2 years after the original cartiform graft. Basically look at the 3rd and 4th picture and you get a good idea of what the graft looks like now. Much better than before that's for sure.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on October 30, 2016, 03:19:45 AM
Here is a before pic just for comparison.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: canyonking on October 30, 2016, 03:24:05 AM
And finally, here is a pic of my left knee arthrosurface (ftg) inlay. And just look at that kneecap that is now rubbing on a smooth metal surface (for some of the range of motion). It makes me cringe. I will meet with Dr. Davidson in a few months to see about having it covered in cartiform sometime next winter. He said his colleagues would think he was crazy to try to do the whole thing but considering the success I had with the other one, he would be willing to try it.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: codyblake on December 15, 2016, 10:41:49 PM
I saw your posts regarding the cartiform.  My son has a very large tear in his knee and the doctor said he suggests this procedure.  I have never heard of it before and I just wanted to speak with someone that actually had the procedure done.  You know to just see if its recommended or not.  My son is 19 and I am desperate for some feedback...hopefully positive feedback.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: codyblake on December 16, 2016, 06:24:30 PM
I saw your posts regarding the cartiform.  My son has a very large tear in his knee and the doctor said he suggests this procedure.  I have never heard of it before and I just wanted to speak with someone that actually had the procedure done.  You know to just see if its recommended or not.  My son is 19 and I am desperate for some feedback...hopefully positive feedback.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: Llamarebel on January 11, 2017, 02:27:38 PM
I would say the overwhelmingingly so far responses on this site (few though they are) have been positive with the cartiform.  I guess some depends on where the cartilage defect is in your son's knee. I think most I've seen noted have been patellar, but I recently had my medial condyle repaired with early success...
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: sandman5309 on January 23, 2017, 06:53:56 PM
Llamarebel,

Yeah I have seen a lot of positive results on the forum from individuals who have received Cartiform.  How is your recovery going?  What was the extent of the damage to your condyle?

Canyonking,

How goes your recovery?  I have been looking at working with the same surgeon and have read mostly positive reviews.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: Jordan1 on March 06, 2017, 11:48:36 PM
Canyonking - would love an update on your knee/s are doing and how your cartiform grafts have held up.

I'm considering ACI/MACI, but the two step procedure seems like a lot and after hearing about cartiform I'm really curious about it!
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: reflex_nl on May 09, 2017, 11:42:30 AM
Hi Jordan,

Did your stemcell injections help?

Thx

Reflex
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: Jordan1 on May 09, 2017, 04:04:58 PM
Hi Jordan,

Did your stemcell injections help?

Thx

Reflex

Hi reflex_nl,

I had two rounds of PRP injections and then 2 rounds of bone marrow stem cell injections, probably around 25 injections per knee per treatment. These were after 2 years of conservative treatment and a failed arthroscopic debridement. If they helped at all it was about 6+ months later, but I've also had ACL surgeries and meniscus tears that could have been/be contributing to my pain. I?m not sure the injections substantially helped the cartilage damage and pain that is coming from my patella. I have read some recent stuff about shooting stem cells directly into patella cartilage lesions (my injections were all just into the joint itself) but I do not know if that is effective especially with a large defect: https://www.regenexx.com/364-2/

From what I've read and found out after I was getting the injections is that there are not good outcomes with PRP and stem cells for kneecap specific damage. After trying the stem cell route, and that not working I found some different PT avenues that I started to pursue and think that is what has helped the most and gotten me back on my feet/moving around a little more.

I found a physical therapist trained through the Grey institute, who focused on functional training and that helped, however, I still have a lot of problems with any kind of extended standing, walking and even sitting. The first 3 chapters of a book called "Pain Free" by Pete Egoscue were super helpful and I also follow Myodetox therapists on Instagram - they post biomechanics/functional/myofascial exercises that I like to use.

I've had 1 cartilage restoration surgeon recommend MACI, another gave an option of MACI or OATS depending on what the initial diagnostic scope would show, and a 3rd saying MACI with hesitation ? while my MRI and previous surgical photos show a medial lesion/damage under my kneecap, there is no bone reaction, which I guess is what they want to see to kind of ?confirm? that is what is causing pain, before moving forward with one of those procedures. Personally, I am still in limbo deciding what to do.

Hope some of that was helpful.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: reflex_nl on May 30, 2017, 08:07:05 PM
@Jordan,  thanks for sharing you story. To what extend was cartilage damage present on the patella in your case? Did you do you stemcell @ Regenexx?  The story in your link is amazing... - but unfortunately rare.

I also cannot decide on the next steps... it is really difficult to say what will help in the long run.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: exrunner1 on February 07, 2018, 12:23:07 AM
The graft on the right knee is fantastic. I can mash the peddals on the mountain bike with no problem. Just hiked 2,600 vertical feet in 2 miles. Climb on weekends. All is good there. My leg muscles have come back and quads look good. The inlay has been about 8 months. To start off with, it was nice and smooth through 80 degrees range of motion. Now, it grinds like a joint full of gravel. Hurts on most activity as well. No problems with the inlay, but the underside of the patella is still atrocious so there it is. I'll wait at least another year to possibly visit an entire covering of cartiform on the left kneecap. I need to accrue more sick leave and have had enough of surgeries for a while. Ibuprofen is doing the trick for now. I typed up a whole journal of my inlay surgery and recovery just never got around to posting it. It wasn't so bad really. I was back to mtn biking within 2 months or so. I do have pictures, I'll just have to find them and post them.

Please post an update. Its been a while we heard from u.
Title: Re: Cartiform cartilage graft for chondromalacia patella
Post by: Samiul27 on June 09, 2019, 03:53:01 AM
The graft on the right knee is fantastic. I can mash the peddals on the mountain bike with no problem. Just hiked 2,600 vertical feet in 2 miles. Climb on weekends. All is good there. My leg muscles have come back and quads look good. The inlay has been about 8 months. To start off with, it was nice and smooth through 80 degrees range of motion. Now, it grinds like a joint full of gravel. Hurts on most activity as well. No problems with the inlay, but the underside of the patella is still atrocious so there it is. I'll wait at least another year to possibly visit an entire covering of cartiform on the left kneecap. I need to accrue more sick leave and have had enough of surgeries for a while. Ibuprofen is doing the trick for now. I typed up a whole journal of my inlay surgery and recovery just never got around to posting it. It wasn't so bad really. I was back to mtn biking within 2 months or so. I do have pictures, I'll just have to find them and post them.

Please post an update. Its been a while we heard from u.

Hi canyonking any updates on how you are feeling now