KNEEtalk

The SPECIALIST'S OFFICE => Ligament damage => Topic started by: london_lass23 on July 25, 2013, 09:41:37 PM

Title: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: london_lass23 on July 25, 2013, 09:41:37 PM
Ok so i have posted on here a couple of times. In 2009 i dislocated my knee while playing rugby. After an mri and 4 different surgeons i found out i had torn my plc, acl and had nearly torn my pcl and mcl. I had the plc reconstructed in April 2010 and the acl in September 2010. Since then i have been unable to see the surgeon who operated on me, every time i went for a check up i saw his physio or a junior doctor. In September 2011 i went back complaining of pain, swelling and instability. I was told there was nothing else they could do for me and i was sent for another 12 week course of physio even though building my muscles up made no difference. Anyway today after a 3 month wait i saw a different surgeon in another part of scotland. he did the usual tests and is referring me to a specialist knee surgeon. He said i have a definite posterior sag and my mcl is very lax if not gone. He also asked if i damaged my lcl (is that the same as plc? as i have already had this repaired.)

 I would just like to know if there is anyone out there who has damaged all 4 ligaments in the same knee? Is there any hope of a pain free knee oris that just hopeful thinking?
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: Givney42 on July 31, 2013, 04:47:18 AM
I'm sorry that you have all that damage. I tore my ACL, MCL, LCL, PFML and have multiple breaks on the fibula head, and tibia. All from laying my motorcycle down so as not to injury my dog in his sidecar. This started for me on June 2nd. I've been doing PT work at home for 5 hrs a day. I have 120 flexion, and almost full extension. But am struggling with adhesions in the break sites. So it is a fine line balancing act as to how much to work out and not. But I'm learning to balance it and that is what matters. Im also learning the pain does come and go. Ice and elevation are my friends at this time. I find it best in the AM after waking up and again at night before bed. Ortho doc is still talking surgery for replace ACL, but have to wait till breaks heal and to see if MCL will tighten any more. REALLY hoping it does. I don't want MCL worked on as the risk of more adhesions is too great.

So...hang in there. There are good and bad days. the good days will start to come closer together.

kim
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: london_lass23 on August 07, 2013, 11:23:39 PM
Thank you for your reply, sounds like you have done your knee in pretty bad. I am trying to do as much physio stuff as possible but because i am a chef i am on my feet 8 hours a day. So by the time i finish work my knee is so swollen and sore that it makes doing any exercise almost impossible if i want to be able to work the next day. I was told that my mcl would heal but the way it moved when tested the other week it looked pretty loose. I have no idea what they will do next. I get to go pick my brace up next week so hopefully that will make work less painful. I hurt my knee again on monday. I was putting  pair of shoes on but as i bent my knee up it felt like something snapped. It was really painful and now i cant much flexion past 90 degrees. It feels like something is stopping it and it hurts when i try to bend it. No idea what i have done there. After over 4 years i am getting pretty fed up of it all tbh
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: Johnnyp060 on August 09, 2013, 07:03:23 AM
 I haven't been on here in a while and figured I'd check up on everyone. I was in a motorcycle accident in march of 2012, dirt bike crash, tore my ACL, PCL and MCL. Had my surgery in may of 2012, rebuilt my knee with cadaver parts. My Doc told me it would be a good solid year recovery. I was making great progress until it seemed I came to a stalemate. Went to the Doc and he told me my MCL, where most of my damage was never healed and due to that my kneecap doesn't track properly. I'm going in come fall for another surgery to redo my MCL and anchor my kneecap over, another 6 months of recovery, woohoo!!!  Right now, I'm able to walk with a brace, ride bicycles and work, I have a lawn business, which is why I'm waiting till fall to do my surgery.
I've chatted with several people on here that have had this similar injury and all have recovered and are doing fine. It just takes a lot of time, dedication and hard work. Keep your head up and never give up. Stay in the fight, John
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: london_lass23 on September 19, 2013, 09:52:21 AM
So i finally got to see a knee specialist on Tuesday. He did all the usual ligament tests and this is what he found... the acl and plc reconstructions have loosened considerably and so there is laxity in those ligaments. He said the pcl is shocking, he could really move it a lot, he said it sags even with my knee at 90 degrees. He also said the mcl is lax. So my knee is pretty much wrecked. He is sending me for an MRI to see where the tunnels are and to check the cartilage as he thinks there is a lot of wear and tear. He said he will most probably reconstruct the pcl but after that he isnt sure. If that doesnt work im not sure what will happen  :-[
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: Johnnyp060 on September 24, 2013, 07:06:37 AM
That sucks!!!  Hopefully it can be fixed and you can get back to some sort if normalcy.
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: rdw on December 21, 2013, 04:42:45 AM
london lass, it sounds a lot like my situation.

I tore acl, pcl, mcl, popliteal tendon (complete), and had numerous partial tears.  The plan was to do two surgeries, but during the first I contracted a life threatening infection. That took 4 surgeries and months of IV antibiotics to kill. Then, all of the repairs had to be redone.

As of today I have a significant amount of laxity in the joint, the tibia/fibula will move front to back over an inch. Doc says there is nothing that can be done with the joint, surgically, so I am stuck in a brace for life. 

I plan on getting more opinions, and will update if I learn anything new.  I am actively looking for answers, and wil share if I get any... Best wishes to you... :P
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: Matthew24 on January 20, 2014, 11:29:16 PM
Feel your pain. I go tomorrow to see the extent of damage on my knee. 2 satudays ago i had my foot planted in a soccer match and a guy ran right through my leg causing it to bend the wrong way.  Basically the medial side of my knee where MCL is acted as tho it was the back of my knee and it flexed the wrong way after taking the blow to the outside of knee. Fractured patella with a piece broken off. Suspected tears of ACL , PCL and LCL. just hoping that by some grace of god all 3 ligaments arent torn. hope you catch some luck and take some positive steps in your recovery.
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: KP1708 on February 18, 2014, 10:04:02 PM
Yes I tore all 4 along with my patella tendon, posterolateral corner, illiotibia band, and meniscus.
Mine resulted from a motorcycle accident and a twisting dislocation.
Oct 2013 so I'm not that far in to rehab, rom 90, I can put weight on it but walking is hard due to my tibial sag. I see the dr. tomorrow to see when he is going to fix my acl/pcl, so I can start rehab all over again.

KP
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: Perplexing on July 23, 2014, 06:04:23 PM
I know this is an old post. Just wanted to get some of the participants to post their recent experiences. I have similar injuries and would love to hear more from you guys/girls.

Thanks.
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: Johnnyp060 on July 23, 2014, 07:04:48 PM
Hey Perplexing!!!  I'm getting there slowly but surely. Ive been stuck at 75 degrees ROM for a couple weeks now but my Doc says it'll come back eventually. I'm getting stronger as time goes on, still crutching around though, muscle atrophy sucks!!!  I'm taking it day bt day and staying positive. Hope all is well with you. I run a FB support page for multi ligament injuries, check it out, we've got a really great bunch of people on there, very supportive. It's called The 0.02% My Multi ligament knee injury. Take care.
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: Steven H on August 14, 2014, 03:59:54 PM
Hi everyone, i've just joined this site and find it interesting relating to others experiences.

I had a motorcycle accident last year, June 2013, (a car pulled out of a side road on me, 100 metres from my front door) and suffered a broken left collarbone and dislocated left knee.
I was taken to hospital and my knee was reduced in theatre and placed in a ROM brace set to allow only 20 degrees overnight while i waited for a MRI on knee and CT on shoulder. The results on the knee was ruptured ACL, PCL, LCL, major damage to most of the muscles and tendons in the PLC and luckily only a type 2 sprain of the MCL.
I was home the next day with one crutch as my left arm was in a sling and was pretty much unable to do anything.
My op was a month after, July 2013, and it was all operated on in one go, six and a half hours in theatre. I was told that because of the damage they wouldn't be grafting but replacing with doner (not kebab) and synthetic ligaments.
I was allowed home the next day without a brace on and again told to weight bear as much as i could. (who remembers the pain of the sudden rush of blood to the bottom of your leg when you get up!!!)
Rehab was going well until i got and infection in my knee which ended with me visiting theatre another couple of times for flushes etc and four months on antibiotics (via PICC line and orally). This did have a massive affect on rehab as i was told that i shouldn't be doing much exercise until the infection had gone.
It all like it was yesterday!!

Anyway, things aren't too bad now, decent movement in knee, probably get to about 120degrees before if feels too uncomfortable to bear. Which isn't too bad as my consultant said after the infection i'd be lucky to get to 90.

Had a bit of pain the last couple of weeks but i've been told i'll get this now and then because of the damage that was done.

Also i was told the outlook wasn't great for the future, eg osteoarthritis in the next 15 years and more major surgery by the time i'm 50 (another 19 years yet then).

Sorry to go on for ages.

Basically everyone, you get out what you put in, and keeping positive, looking at my 4 girls and knowing that i can and will get back to messing around with them again soon, was and still is a massive focus point.

Never give up!!!
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: kmillersc on September 04, 2014, 07:25:01 PM
This is my first time on this site, and I am so thankful to know there are others folks who have gone/are going thru what I'm currently going thru. On 06/06/14, I slipped and fell, dislocated my right knee, tore my ACL, LCL, MCL, and PCL, and I tore my peroneal nerve, which causes me to suffer from foot drop as well. My PCL was reconstructed on the 10th, and I spent the next 5 weeks in an immobilizing type knee brace, and I was non-weight bearing for that entire time. I started PT on 07/23/14 and have been going 3x/week. As of now, my ROM is about 90 degrees; however, my doctor wants it at 120 before he schedules the next surgery to repair the other 3 ligaments. Next week I am scheduled for a Manipulation, and I'm not sure how scared I should be.
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: Johnnyp060 on September 04, 2014, 08:41:17 PM
Hey Kmillersc!!!!
     Hang in there, it does get better, it may take a while but it does. As for the MUA, I've never had it done yet but from what I've heard it's fairly simple, they put you out and bend the leg then PT you. If you're looking for a good support page, I run one on FB, it's called The 0.02% My Multi-Ligament (ACL, PCL, MCL) Knee Injury. We have a great group on there at all different stages of recovery. Check it out!!!  Keep your head up!!! 
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: kmillersc on September 05, 2014, 08:42:35 PM
Thanks a bunch Johnnyp060,

For the first time, I can honestly say that my PT session today was awesome!! I was pushed to 93 degrees and it hurt, but I really enjoyed everything afterwards; it was just a really good day. I even started to feel a little exited about the MUA, and I told my therapist. She told me that she was excited as well, because it will allow us to be able to do more exercises w/out me fighting/pushing back. I'll let you know how the MUA goes. 
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: Johnnyp060 on September 05, 2014, 09:53:41 PM
That's awesome!!!!  Keep up the good work!!!  I love days that just click!!!!
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: AlfaPapaDaisy on February 10, 2015, 04:35:04 PM
I am very relieved to have found others with as severe a knee injury as me - not that I would wish this on anyone!

Nine months ago I fell whilst bouldering indoors and landed badly dislocating my left knee. The dislocation cause complete rupture of MCL, PCL, ACL and MOL plus a fracture of the tibia. I've had two lots of surgery, the first was an urgent arthroscopy to reattach the MCL, and the second a reconstruction of the ACL using part of my right hamstring and a donor Achilles tendon.

It's been 12 weeks since my reconstruction and I've just been referred for an MUA as I'm struggling with flexion and can't get my knee much past 90-95 degrees, which is limiting the amount of rehab I can do.

Just wanted to say - thank you so much to everyone who has shared info. It's comforting to know there are others coming 'out the other side' of an injury like this. My intention is to be able to fell run and climb again, but right now, today I can barely get on an exercise bike so feeling pretty lousy!
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: Johnnyp060 on February 10, 2015, 07:33:13 PM
Sorry about your injury, hang in there and stay positive. You're correct about support and being in contact with those that get what you're going through, it's key during recovery which is why I started a support FB page called The 0.02%  My Multi-ligament (ACL, PCL, MCL) Injury, check it out!!!  We have an awesome and very active group of people on there at all different stages of recovery. Good luck and remember to stay positive.
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: stephanofernandes on February 18, 2015, 09:38:37 PM
Hello Everyone,

I am from Brazil and I was studying in USA in an exchange program and after watching a Brazil soccer gamer during the World Cup last year, me and my friend went out during the night when one of the guys jumped over my shoulder and I couldn't support his weight and twisted my knee to the inside and heard it popping. Felt a terrible pain and found out two weeks later that I had completely tore my ACL, PCL and MCL at once.

I was alone in another country far away from my family but I decided to have the surgery on Miami on July 27th of 2014. I had the surgery with allografts from a donor, and after 10 day I came back to Brazil to start the rehab. I went to the PT for a long time and also did some exercises in a pool for a while, but after 3 months of surgery I had to go back to work. After I started working again, I didn't have the same availability to go to PT and then I stopped about 4 months after the surgery. After 5 months of surgery, I started working out in a Gym focusing on exercises for my leg and knee. I lost a lot of my hamstring muscles, and my leg was very weak.

Now I am 7 months after the surgery and I fell my leg much stronger than before. I can lift more weight at the Gym than I used to when I started. The only thing that I am concerned is that my ROM is still limited. I can bend my knee around 125 degrees but I still miss 5 degrees from 0 degree of extension, which makes walk with a limp mainly when I get up after stay seated for a while.

I am afraid I will never gain a ROM close to normal again I still feel my knee very stiff and when I told my doctor about it, he told me that PT won't help me so much and I need to focus on getting my strength back and get used to the idea that my ROM will never me close to normal again.

My question is: How is/was your ROM after 7 months of surgery? Is it close to normal again? Does the PT still make effect after such long time after the surgery? Have you started exercising in a Gym?

Best Regards,
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: Johnnyp060 on February 19, 2015, 03:29:11 AM
Thanks for joining our support group, Stephano!!!!! 
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: KP1708 on October 29, 2015, 04:16:50 PM
Follow up: motorcycle injury 10/19/2013 ruptured ACL,PCL,MCL,LCL,PLC, IT band, tore medial and lateral meniscus, along with ruptured patella tendon away from tibia.
7 surgeries and 8 months on crutches without being able to walk on it, my doctor gave up on being able to repair it.
I changed doctors and the new one said no way to fix it because of damage and time.
So on 6/24/2014, I had a salvage tkr with one that supported all 4 ligaments.
By 7/13/2014 I was walking without the aid of crutches or a cane.
I walk without a limp and have full extension and ROM of 125*, I can go on it all day without any real issues. Not as good as the original, but way better than those 8 months.
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: Johnnyp060 on October 31, 2015, 12:49:21 PM
Awesome news!!!!  TKR will be my next move too. Just have to talk my doc into giving me one. They're afraid if I get one now at age 41, I'll wear it out and need another one. We'll see. Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: ACL, PCL, MCL AND LCL damaged, anyone else???
Post by: healingup on June 22, 2016, 07:06:50 AM
Guys, I see a lot have u have limited ROM. I had this too after MCL, ACL recon. However, limited ROM is mostly due to a BAD SURGERY. I had 5 deg los of extension and could not go beyong 120 deg. I did not trust it and a went to a doc far far away from my first doc (12 hours flight). There it turned out that the ACL tunnel was placed way too much anterior on the febula and the dMCL was placed too low. Therefore instability in extention and no more than 120 deg flexion with pain. Over here they redo everything for about 30k euros.

Guys dont mess around. 1) see a good doc 2) NEVER trust your doc and 3) always go for a post op MRI and second opinion with a doc that is INDEPENDENT. Oh and 4) dont wait more than several weeks to do this. After a yesr you are most likely too late.