KNEEtalk

The WAITING ROOM => GENERAL KNEE QUESTIONS and comments (good for new threads) => Topic started by: thommo404 on September 13, 2012, 06:11:26 AM

Title: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on September 13, 2012, 06:11:26 AM
Ok here goes.

I had my last patella dislocation in March 2011 whilst at work.  The suregeon went conservative first and after trying very hard with PT I had a MPFL on 6th June 2011.  Again back into PT and it was very slow going.  In November 2011 I changed physios and also had cortisone injections as I had started to get a bad sharp pain behind the kneecap.  I had only reached a maximum of 115 degrees of flexion.  That did not help at all.  By the time March 2012 this year the pain behind the patella when I bent it or tried to crouch, climb stairs etc got worse.

Had an MRI and it found a small flap on the kneecap and grade 2 chondromalacia.  So in July this year I had a scope with a clean up and the OS thought that would work.  He said it was actually grade 3 when he got in there.  Cleaned it all up and thought it was ok.  Checked everything else while he was in there as well.

Now 8 weeks post op I still have that same pain behind the patella and it is driving me nuts.  I had an ultrasound with cortisone injections 7 days ago and it has not worked at all.  The man who did the injections and ultrasound suggested it may be necrosis in the kneecap.

What do you guys think?  I am over this.  It has been 18mths.  I just want to move on.  If it is the fact it is too bad it won't let me back to work I am prepared to deal with that. 

I am at the point I am ready to ask for a patella replacement.

thommo404
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on September 13, 2012, 09:45:59 AM
Hi Thommo,

Well that doesn't sound like fun at all. Sorry things haven't gone as planned Nd you're left with the pain and not knowing which way to go next - i had that situation myself and I know it's pretty miserable. It's also scary how quickly time rushes by and before you know it you've been off work a year, in pain for longer than that, and struggle to remember your last 'normal' day. I think sometimes these surgeons don't think of things from our side of the fence at all!

I wouldn't rush into another procedure until you know for sure what went wrong with this one. are you having a new symptoms since the op or the continuation of the old ones? is the pain day to day worse now than before the op? Did your surgeon give you a recovery time and are you outside that now? What does he think of your knee now? Sorry about the questions!! If your surgeon can't come up with some answers and a plan then I'd think about getting a referral to another for a second opinion ASAP. All these things take time, as you know all too well, so if you've got any doubts about him then I'd go for it.

I don't know that much about a MPFL op so I'll leave comment on that to those that do. Cortison injections aren't that reliable from my own experience and a couple of surgeon's comments - they work in some cases, not in others. Grrrr.

Hope things improve quickly, and take care of yourself in the meantime. Life and work might have changed for now, but you're still you under all this crap, and you'll get out the other side of this. It's so much easier to adjust to a change in your life if you have answers and explanations for things, being left in the dark is so frustrating!

All the best,

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: RLE on September 13, 2012, 03:56:17 PM
I know the pain behind the kneecap you're talking about. I'm wondering if the problem is that you don't have enough cartilage and that's causing the pain. What I know if it's only in spots they can replace the cartilage with grafts but if it's thin or gone all over then it requires a replacement. You should see another surgeon who specializes in patello-femoral issues and get another opinion.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on September 18, 2012, 08:08:36 AM
Ok so I got a call from the OS's office yesterday and asked me to go from some other scans if I was still in pain.  Which I am.  So I had blood test's yesterday and today have gone for a SPECT - CT.  Just picked up the results and have copied them below.  Can anyone tell me what they mean.  I am guessing there isn't much wrong inside my knee so I am guessing all the pain must be in my head?

There is no abnormal vascularityin the left knee compared to the right.  In the delayed planar images, there is mild increased uptake in the two foci in the left patellofemoral region one medially and one at the central portion.  On SPECT CT, the central focus correlates with a small cortical defect at the site of previous screw in the inferior part of the patella, possibly related to ongoing bony remodelling.  Mild increased uptake is also seen in the tibial tuberosity at the site of tendon attachment.

Comment:
The mild focal increased uptake in the left patella inferiorly at the site of previous screw is possibly related to ongoing bony remodelling.  Tracer uptake elsewhere in the left knee is unremarkable.  There is no evidence of significant patellofemoral arthritis.

So what does it all mean?  Am I just imagining the searing pain in my patella when I bend it?
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on September 18, 2012, 09:12:47 AM
No, you're not imagining that pain. Just because they don't think you 'should' have it, doesn't mean it's not there... :-\

From the conclusion, it sounds as though the radiographer doesn't see a major issue in there. BUT. I know from my own experience with this that these sort of conclusions can sometimes be confusing. My initial MRI apparently showed up 'nothing' and was 'clear', so they did an arthroscopy and found grade 3/4 in my PF area. When I requested all the notes and MRI afterwards, the report said 'non-full thickness fissuring' which can mean a lot of things, but I would have thought that that report, plus my symptoms, indicated that it probably was a PF issue - ie, not 'nothing'. When I saw the MRI and compared it to images online (I know, I know...) I thought you could see more. Hmm. But I'm not a trained radiographer so I shouldn't speculate. I also know that my own surgeon has referred to my MRI results very differently on two occasions, so I think it's easy to get confused and lost in the madness.

The main thing is that the pain is still there. It is bad. It is consistent day-to-day. And you have been doing your physio and recovery stuff properly.

Patella femoral pain can be very nasty, I have it myself and know how miserable it is. All you can do is keep pressing for an explanation/answer and make them take the pain seriously.

Good luck!

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Lottiefox on September 18, 2012, 09:44:36 AM
What state are your leg muscles in after all of this? Even with a small defect on the patella, loss of muscle balance and strength can make pain much much worse than it "should" be as the patella isn't being moved about properly and consequently all the bits that might be a bit worn pinch and hurt really badly. 8 weeks post scope for clean up isn't *that* long if you've got issues that predate the scope that might have affected the muscles etc. I have PF wear - grade 3 and 4 on most of the kneecaps but with diligent PT I was able to reduce the hideous pinching feeling when I bent my knee with any weight on it as now my kneecap is being supported much better. Not perfect but better.

Do you have a decent PT guiding you through this? Have you been checked for any issues with alignment of the kneecap and/or the underlying bones? I know the MPFL will have hopefully addressed one aspect of dislocation but there can be others. The only other thing is that with limited flexion could your MPFL graft be to tight? Have you asked the OS that....too tight a graft could cause pinching/pain.

Good luck, hope you get some answers soon

Lottie
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on September 18, 2012, 10:50:06 AM
Yeah my surgeon is taking it seriously and made calls to get me in early for the cortisone needles and then again yesterday to get me in for the SPECT CT again today.  He has said he knows I am not just whinging and putting it on but he just isn't sure what it could be.  He is trying all he can.  I am off for a second opinion in a couple of weeks just to see.  You never know if he may have missed something or the other OS may have seen something similar.

I am back to see my OS in 2 days so will see what he says.


My PT is great.  He is the former PT for the Brumbies rugby team here in Canberra.  The only thing that bothers me is he says that if there is nothing structural inside then we will just have to work through the pain.  Not sure I can do that cause it is close to making me pass out when I feel it.

I really am over this.  I have been offered an awesome job at work but can't do it if I can't get back to full fittness.  I am missing out on a heap of trips away with work because of it.  We are building a new house and we are having to plan to get people in to do things instead of me doing them so that is costing us money.  Yes I am on workers comp so it is all covered but it sucks cause there is no end in sight.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on September 18, 2012, 01:48:40 PM
It's so miserable, I feel just the same sometimes! Try not to get bogged down in it too much though, there are options even if things don't improve the way you hope. Speaking personally, I really struggle still with the life changes that have happened this last two years. I used to play a lot of tennis and was chair of my club, and I've had to give that all up. I lost my job as I just couldn't do the type of work (it was all walking, kneeling, lifting, stairs, standing for hours, etc... ::)) and after the minimal statutory sick pay ran out that was it financially, and we're struggling. I've started a tutoring business but that's still early days, and these days no one wants to spend cash if they can get away with it.... Your workers comp sounds like a great safety net to have for now. I know it's awful that you can't do the things you used to, but things could always be worse!

I think it's useful to think about what you might do IF your knee doesn't improve for now. At least then you're prepared for making hard decisions about work and stuff if they come. It doesn't mean you've given up, just that you're thinking around the problem. It's horrible not being able to play your part in life like you did, i feel the same way as a mum of two daughters. I just can't dash up the stairs fifty times a day like I used to... ;D

Take care of yourself generally, eat healthily and do all those boring exercises. The rest of it depends on what damage there is in that knee, and what your surgeon decides to do! It sounds like he's well and truly on the ball, always an advantage, lol. You are so lucky having a great surgeon and PT to work with!

I'll be hoping things improve for you soon. Keep smiling whenever possible :)

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on September 18, 2012, 02:15:57 PM
Thanks Brams.

Yeah I am prepared to make the tuff decision if it comes to it.  Just to explain I am with the police and it was a training accident that did it.  So I can't be operational again if it is not 100%.  They are looking after me and yes workers comp is a blessing.  Certainly couldn't have done it without it.  I have 2 boys 9yo & 3yo and it is sad when my 3yo tells everyone about dad having a sore knee.  That is all he has really known me as.  It sucks.  I can't coach my 9yo's footy team, I hurt myself in March 2011 and in the Dec before that I was the fittest I had been in a long time and had just raced my best Ironman triathlon.  So I really miss my riding.  Sounds like torture to some but I miss my 4 or 5 hour rides of a saturday morning.  That was my relaxation time.  Time to think and zone out.  It was my time to get away from the family for the week.  My wife has hers where she goes for lunch or dinner with girlfriends but that was mine and I really miss it.

I am seeing a councelor to help me out with the mental side of it cause I am suffering from depression.  My wife is amazing.  I don't know how she is doing it.  She has to do so much more with me being like this.  And I don't sleep that well cause of the pain so I can be twice the pain in the butt for her!

To answer domeone elses question.  This pain started about 7 months after my MPFL reco.  I was on the verge of starting to run again with my PT when it started so my muscle strength was quite good.  But now the pain has not changed since the scope 8 weeks ago from what it was before the scope but yes my quad has melted away quite a bit.  I know that isn't helping but it is so hard to build it up when I am in so much pain.

I will let you know how it goes on Thursday.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Lottiefox on September 18, 2012, 02:55:44 PM
Yuck, what a frustrating situation. I can empathise with the change in ability too....I have not had surgery on my knees but PF issues kicked off as I completed a fitness instructing course and was poised ready for a career change.....I too miss my runs (albeit I was slow!) and being able to jump etc. BUT over time I've built up a lot of function and am now probably stronger in my legs than I was before. I still can't do the high impact stuff I used to love but I have adapted....I understand the depression side of things, I struggled for a good while too. I then had foot surgery to fuse a worn out toe joint and developed CRPS in the toe and the ones alongside it. It never rains.....etc etc...repeat....

Hang in there. It sounds like you have a great team on your side and a great attitude and support system. July isn't that long for the scope and if they scraped about with your kneecap then you are probably still settling down inside. I found Euflexxa injections have really helped my kneecaps, seem to be like an oil change and they've allowed me to return to spinning, weights etc.

I guess if they find the sharp pain is due to a focal cartilage defect you have options for repair.......injury related trauma is much easier than generalised pooped out kneecaps like mine. People on here have had success with grafts on the kneecap, things like MACI or De Novo are showing promising results. Or it might just be that you need more time. I am 2.5 years on from my knee crisis and finally feel strong. Sometimes our bodies do help themselves but I know the whole process is hideous and depressing when you're used to being active. is there anything you can do to keep the athletic mind busy whilst you;re seeing what will be?

Keep us posted,

Lottie
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on September 18, 2012, 03:06:32 PM
Thanks Lottie.  Can I ask what you mean by "I guess if they find the sharp pain is due to a focal cartilage defect you have options for repair"?

As far as keeping the athletic mind busy I haven't found anything yet.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: RLE on September 18, 2012, 03:20:51 PM
I had 3 different MRIs with 3 different write ups. Totally different interpretations so I don't set much store by them anymore. My surgeon wanted to see all of them for himself. My x-rays were much clearer and easy to see what was going on, you could see the lack of cartilage and the patella alta and the dislocation easily.
I'd see another specialist (or 5 if possible)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on September 18, 2012, 03:38:18 PM
Hi Thommo,

Crikey, I should think it IS a massive change from being active in the force. Good on you for seeing a counsellor for the depression bit - do you find it's helping much so far? I was offered it, but being a stubborn idiot I didn't. I'm out of the worst of it for now, but it was a dark time coming to terms with everything. Keep at it, and find some things to do while you're not as active - the worst thing is sitting and thinking too much. Mind you, some days you don't have a lot of choice ::)

I can say from my own experience that an arthroscopy isn't always the easy quick recovery they trot out beforehand. I turned out to have an extra complication, but even so, just firkling about inside a joint can leave things inflamed and angry for a while. It takes time to calm down. Sometimes more time than the surgeons think.

I'm the other way around than you, being the wife side of things, but I completely understand the guilt and sadness at seeing your partner having to take on jobs that you used to do, and they are running around after you and the kids as well, working full time, etc. it's a teensy bit soul-destroying. But they would do the same for you if things were different. So try not to feel too bad about it :-\ I found it helped to tell my husband how bad I felt about it all and then talking it through. At least then they know that you appreciate what they are doing and are trying to do what you can. It's never easy.

I have a very weak quad after my op, but have managed to get a bit of strength back, although not enough! I find the quad twitching exercises when sitting with your legs straight worked the best for me. I still can't do SLRs etc as its too hard on that darned PF groove! Keep working at it and it will come back. If your painkillers aren't enough for you to do the exercises, then ask your GP for something else - my physio always said that there was no point going into exercises without adequate pain relief - and she was a scary woman!

Hope things are ok today and it's not too chilly where you are - we have some lovely sunshine at the moment but a chilly old wind, and I bet my summer quilt won't be up to the job again tonight! Time to get the winter one out I think...

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Lottiefox on September 18, 2012, 03:57:49 PM
hey

My comment meant that if you have a chunk of cartilage that has gone missing from your kneecap that is the cause of the pain there are options for trying to graft in a repair. Things like MACI take your own cartilage cells and grow them in a lab then try and graft them back in, Denovo uses donor tissue to fill the gap. These only work if you have adequate cartilage around the focal defect to graft onto - imagine darning a sock with hundreds of holes in it....it won't work. Same with a kneecap with loads of bits missing behind it (like mine!). The information hub on here can provide some good questions you might want to ask your OS. I have just reread your report and would be intrigued what they mean by bony remodelling.....if that means bone is rough/growing/not happy then that may also be a cause of pain. Bone pain sucks big style and can be really nasty.

I know it might seem hard on the knees but have you tried indoor rowing? Would you have enough bend and strength? I used a water rower last week and was AMAZED how natural it felt and actually how much easier it was on my knees. They are rowing machines with water as the source of resistance in a big drum at the front. This is also a long shot but can you punch/box without the bobbing about? Pad work with a partner might be an option, I don't know how much mobility and capacity you have to stand and stabilise and punch but it helped me in the early days quite a lot. I guess my other escape was lifting weights - lying down with someone spotting me and doing the lugging about. Depends what you like doing though and of course that requires a gym and a person.

Good luck,

Lottie

Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on September 19, 2012, 09:34:56 AM
Thanks Lottie I thought that was what you meant.  I don't have a chunk out of my cartlidge at the moment.  There was previous to the scope.  But the pain hasn't changed.  My surgeon did say before the surgery that it may take the pain away but may not so he left it up to me.  I took the chance but no luck.

I am in to see him tomorrow so will see what he has to say.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on September 19, 2012, 01:24:28 PM
Good luck Thommo!

Hope you get some answers and a plan of action...

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on September 20, 2012, 05:22:24 AM
Well i saw the surgeon again today.  He said there is nothing too unremarkable in my SPECT CT.  He said he is %100 sure it is not a pain syndrome.  He told me he has really been thinking about my knee the last 2 weeks coming at it from every angle.  He said he is really at a loss.  He said maybe the MPFL is too tight.  He doesn't think so but he said maybe it is.

He is referring me to another OS at his office who he has alot of respect for.  He sent me to him last year before the MPFL surgery just to get a confirmation from him.  So will wait for that appointment and go from there.  I explained how depressed and over it I am and he apologised and told me it is something he really wants to get worked out asap.

So still no answer.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on September 20, 2012, 09:26:55 AM
Sorry it wasn't more helpful yesterday Thommo, but some good stuff too I think. It's great that he's referring you to a colleague for another viewpoint - some OSs seem to take all decisions autonomously and never 'share'... And at least he's being honest about not knowing himself. You've got more chance there of a good outcome than if he wasn't sure but told you he was, and went back in your knee on a fishing expedition. I just hope the other appointment comes through quickly - the waiting time for appointments is maddening and fretful, and really doesn't help things.

Let us know how things go and take care of yourself in the meantime.

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on September 20, 2012, 11:11:28 AM
Thanks Brams.  Well I got a call and my appointment isn't till 2nd Nov so got 7 weeks to wait.  But they have put me on a cancelation list so fingers crossed I get a quicker appointment.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on September 20, 2012, 11:26:06 AM
7 weeks does sound like one hell of a long time doesnt it. But you never know - people cancel appointments for all sorts of reasons...

It's a good idea to keep checking with your surgeon's office to see if anyone has cancelled at the start of that week. I know you're on the list, but if you make regular polite enquiries, then they might get you in earlier. I know people that it has worked for.

Have a good day and keep  :). I'm watching Star Trek Next Generation for some bizarre reason at the moment. - had forgotten how mad it was! 'Make it so Mr Data!' ;D My knee gave way on me about half an hour ago when I got to the bottom of the stairs, shook me up a bit so I'm sat feeling a bit blue. Most days I cope ok, but sometimes I really really hate my knees. Grr! Oh well, it'll be fine I'm sure, I'll just need to be careful today ::)

What do you do to occupy all that time we seem to have now?! I don't know about you, but I was always on the go before all this,played a lot of sport, busy and active job, etc etc. seems light years ago sometimes!

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on September 20, 2012, 12:58:21 PM
Yeah I will do that.  I am quite lucky that a good mate of mine's wife work at the surgeons office so is going to keep track of it.

That doesn't sound good about your knee.  Make sure you look after it.  When they give way it really does shake you up a little for a while.

For me I with my job I was used to working 13 x 12hr shifts per month so had heaps of time off work.  So I was training for my triathlons up to 20hrs per week.  So now I have heaps of time to fill in.  Although now i work 6hrs a day 5 days a week.  I can only watch so much tv and play so much playstation.  It is 950pm here right now and my wife and I just finished watching a show.  Halfway through I was laying down and had to sit up cause of the pain.  I just started to cry because of it.  Out of the blue.

My wife gets a little annoyed and says what do you want me to say when I tell her I am in pain cause she constantly hears me say it.  I don't blame her.  That just shows me even more how much it effects others.  My 9yo is starting cricket this week.  His first year at it.  He said to me last weekend I wish you could coach us dad but you can't cause of your knee it really sucks.  That breaks my heart.  I loved my cricket and he knows it.  I was an opening batsmen in first class cricket.
I know 7 weeks is nothing but I have had 19mths of it now.  I just want a result.  It can be fixed or it can't.  I don't care which one.  I just want to know how to plan the rest of my life.  Do I need to make a career change at work, car.  All of that.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on September 20, 2012, 12:59:20 PM
By the way.  Sorry for the rant!   :-[
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on September 20, 2012, 03:35:46 PM
Hey don't feel bad about the odd rant Thommo, you do need to get things off your chest, and is is the safest place to do it...

I know just how you feel, although the other way around. There's only so many times you can say your knee hurts, only so many times they can be sympathetic about it in one day...,sometimes my husband goes through patches wherei know he's just fed up with it. Not me, I now know, lol, but my knee. It's so hard for them. They think your relationship and life together is one way, and then this sort of crap happens and everything changes. It must be really hard. Horrible for us though, when all you want some days is a kind word, some understanding and a cup of tea without asking for it.... ::)

I started a thread on the main area a while ago now about just this sort of thing. It really helped me because other people open up and you realise you're not alone in feeling like this. I'll find it and post a link. But any time you need a rant just feel free. Sometimes I type all my woes and frustrations and fears down and then delete them or save them in a plain document. It helps and is quite therapeutic - like writing that letter to your boss saying all the things you always wanted to, and then rippling it up before it got you sacked!

I've got to dash now (ha) to take my youngest to a cross-country thing. I won't be trekking to the finish line tho....I shall sit in the car and wait for her. Not quite the same tho :-\

Take care matey. You'll get there.

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Lottiefox on September 20, 2012, 10:14:14 PM
Sorry the appointment hasn't given you any answers but as Brams says, the referral to a new doctor could be the fresh pair of eyes that is needed. far better for a surgeon to say "I don't know" than make you a glib promise, go fishing about in your knee when he isn't sure and leave you in even more pain. Knee pain really does grind you down. We all get it on here. As you say, if you KNOW then you can start a planning process. Knowing seems to take for ever. I am sorry the pain was so bad when you were laying down. It does sound like something mechanical is happening in there.

I hope you can get seen sooner than November. And never apologise for the rant on here. Its the place where you can rant amongst those that get it!

lottie
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on September 22, 2012, 05:14:07 AM
Thanks everyone for your words of advice and encouragement.  It means alot.

Was extremely sore yesterday after having the surgeon play around with it the day before at the review.  Went to PT for my hydro.  He thinks it may be best now to try and push it a little for the next 7 weeks and see how we go.  He said if it is sore anyway we may as well work it and it is only going to get sore.  I told him that is fine but when I hit that spot to brings tears to my eyes that is as far as I am going!

He still thinks the surgeon should try oral prednisone.  But the surgeon doesn't really agree.  The PT reckons that will help but everything I have read I can't see why it would do any better than what the cortisone injections did which didn't work.  What do you guys think??
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on September 22, 2012, 11:49:27 AM
Tricky one Thommo.

I can't really compare the two, to be honest. Cortisone injections did diddly-squat for me, and in fact made things worse for a while, but that may have been me. As a painkilling idea, just because the cortisone didn't work doesn't mean the oral prednisone won't. The fact that one is injected straight into the joint space and the other is taken orally means that they will work in totally different ways. It's possible that the oral one, which will work via your bloodstream, may do what the injection didn't.....But I don't know. Might be worth a phone call to your GP - you can request that they call you back - to ask his opinion.

Not nice when they say they're going to go for it for a while and it'll hurt - been to that one and didn't even get given a t-shirt, lol. Like you, when I got to the tears part I had to say stop. In the last year, I've learnt to cope with quite a lot of pain... :-\...but if it gets that bad then given any kind of opt-out, you'd be mad not to say 'enough'. It's quite strange reading your experiences on this Thommo, so much is similar to mine. It's really helpful in a twisted kond of way! I know it's horrible, but you will get through it, and you will cope - because that's what we do. Hey ho.

Hope you have a good day and that the sun is shining! It's beautiful here after the cold last night, might go for a nice long run..... ::) ;D

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on September 22, 2012, 02:13:18 PM
Thanks Brams.  I am not real keen to take more drigs but.  I do take pain killers when needed but I do hate to even take them but it is a no win. If I don't I get sore and if I do it is one step closer to stomach or kidney problems.  Do you guys do anything to help prevent ripping your stomach apart or ruining your kidneys?

I was a week away from starting to run again in March this year when I first started to get this pain.  So it is not a muscle issue.  I had great muscle strengh back in my quad and had the pain and now I don't have the best quad and still have the pain.  I don't mind some pain.  I did race ironman triathlons up till I was injured.  They are a 3.8km swim, 180km cycle & 42.2km run so am used to pushing through pain barriers.

Had a good day today.  Went for a drive to see how our new house is progressing.  The weather was quite nice.  I got my first full nights sleep in 2 weeks last night.  Slept from 11pm till 8am without waking once.  But as I type this it is 11pm and I am awake because of the pain and being uncomfortable from the brace.  Can't win.

My OS also wants me to make sure I start to bend my leg as far and as much as possible to ensure I don't get arthrofybrosis I think he said where my knee will end up stiff and stuck.

I hobble on crutches past my bike and just desperatley want to go for a ride.  I love my bike.  It makes me feel awesome after a ride.  So having an $8000 AUD bike sitting there doing nothing sucks. 

This might not be the place to bring it up but my wife and I have not even had sex in 9 months.  I think it is a combination of me being in pain, her being exhausted from having to do so much more around the house and with the kids.  I just really want to cry.  Because we now have to save more money to get things done on the new house cause i won't be able to do them I really would like to shout her a night out to a musical and night in a hotel in Sydney just the 2 of us but can't afford it.  If I wasn't hurt I could simply work an overtime to pay for it.  It really is just continually getting me down.


I hate my knee right now.  I could quite easily walk away from work, physio, the surgeon and just live with it.  I really don't know how much longer I can go on without an answer.  Not suicidal thoughts by the way but caring about what happens with my knee I mean.

thommo404
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on September 22, 2012, 03:57:30 PM
Hi Thommo - I'm going to answer properly in a mo, but in the meantime have a read of a thread I started ages ago talking about some of the things you mention. I hope it makes you realise that you're not alone with this crap, and we do understand.

It's in the main 'General questions and comments' section and is called 'knee pain - the third party in my relationship'.

So glad you got a good nights sleep at last - no sleep is a horrible time!

More in a bit..... and a virtual (((hug))).

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on September 23, 2012, 01:09:51 PM
Thanks Brams.  I did have a read of it and it was good to see others out there feeling like me.  And I mean good in a way that I know I'm not going nuts or over reacting.  No-one should have to deal with this.

Had a quiet weekend with the family.  Am planning to go back to my mum's place next weekend to drop our 9yo off for 2 weeks of school hols.  Have been invited out to dinner and a show by an old friend so I think I might have a few drinks and try and forget about it all.  Trying to find some accomodation so the wife and I can have a night together without the kids.  Then the day after we have been asked to go to a nice bay with some of my family.  Just hope I can make it to the water over the sand and hopefully go for a swim.

How is everyone else doing tonight?
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on September 23, 2012, 04:09:29 PM
Sounds lovely!! Hope you get good weather and can get in the sea, that is always such a fantastic thing to do - and just watching the sea can occupy me happily for hours, if I get the chance! Good idea to book somewhere for just the two of you, it's nice to reconnect when you've been through a rough patch...hope you manage to find somewhere nice.

The dinner, show and a few drinks should, in my humble opinion, be part of the care package when you're ill in any way. As good for you as pills and PT sometimes I think  ;D. Hope you have a great time and forget your troubles for a while.

I'm off to my parents for a traditional Sunday lunch of roast beef and all the trimmings...just the thing to chase off the effect these grey autumn skies have on me! I shall ignore the 'no alcohol' on my pills because I know I can get away with the odd glass, and will thoroughly enjoy a nice bit of red wine. Lovely :)

Have a good day and enjoy your planning.

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Lottiefox on September 23, 2012, 10:40:56 PM
Tommo

Just a quick comment on the suggestion of oral prednisolone; it can be really useful for auto immune inflammation but does have some pretty nasty side effects. Interestingly I have never had steroid shots into any joint but when my knees were more problematic two years ago I had a systemic injection of a steroid Kenalog for severe hay fever allergies one Spring. I used to get the shot all the time when I was young but they don't like it forever as it can trash your joints (hmmm......). Anyway, my hay fever stopped and hey presto, my arthritis pain in my left knee and in my (then non fused) arthritic big toe reduced REALLY significantly. Enough to probably get me walking about normally. So, perhaps systemic steroid can help.....not sure if they'd consider a shot like that rather than oral pills (it goes in your butt cheek ouch) but just commenting.  :)

Glad you had a good day with the visit to the new house and I hope you get to make it over the sand and have a swim. England is cold, rainy and bleak. I am quite a winter type of girl so am not overly fussed, weather is weather but I hope we don't have 6 months of rain all winter.....we had that most of the summer apart from when the Olympics were on thank goodness!

Keep checking in. And you're not going nuts. Knee pain SUCKs and when you've been so active it feels like your life has been stolen. We all get it here.

Lottie
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on September 24, 2012, 08:29:04 AM
Well just got a phone call with a little bit of good news.  My appointment that was to be on 2nd Nov has been moved forward to 25th Oct.  So that is something.

Had a really hard day at work today.  Work was fine but I just felt really down.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on September 24, 2012, 12:14:22 PM
Hi Thommo,

Great news that your appointment has been brought forward. And the feeling so down thing is probably because you have so many questions and not enough answers. Getting answers or at least understanding and a plan is the best wellness tonic there is!!! :) Hopefully you're on your way to that.

Hope you manage to have a good evening and feel a bit more like yourself....hang in there.

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on September 24, 2012, 12:30:03 PM
Being a triathlete I also get on a triathlon site.  I happened to start talking to a OS on there and gave him the whole story.  He immediately replied and said that the MPFL is too tight and he is almost 100% sure that is what is causing the pain.  He also said that with my TT - TG being 18.2 that it may also have something to do with it and may need looking at.


Does anyone knoe much about the TT - TG?


thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Lottiefox on September 24, 2012, 12:36:39 PM
Thommo

Good news on the appt being brought forwards. the TT-TG measurement is probably best answered down on the Patella Femoral section - off the top of my head Crankerchick is well read on measurements and their implications and I know she checks in down on that section a fair bit.

Hope the day improves, hang on to the good bits of news and take one day at a time. Its the only way sometimes unless you have a firm plan.

Take care

Lottie  :)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on September 24, 2012, 12:39:48 PM
Thanks Lottie.

I will have a look.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on October 09, 2012, 05:46:45 AM
They are now thinking the MPFL that I had in June last year may be too tight.  Has anyone else had this and had it corrected.  Is it a matter of just going in and stretching the MPFL repair or does it need to be done again?
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on October 09, 2012, 09:36:14 AM
Hi Thommo,

Well my web-searching skills are obviously sadly lacking  ;D because I've struggled to understand it all! I found this article though that is at least about MPFL revision following continued pain and problems.... I don't know if it's of any use, but might give you some info. Hope so anyway.

http://grupodojoelho.com.br/upload/reuniaoeventos/PIIS0749806311001629.pdf

How's everything going aside from the knee stuff? Hope life has been a bit kinder to you lately anyway...

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on October 09, 2012, 11:18:49 AM
Thanks I will have a look at it.

Yeah things have been not too bad.  Got the independent this coming Friday so will see what he has to say.  But still have another 2 weeks before I get the second opinion.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on October 09, 2012, 02:36:31 PM
Hi Thommo,

Glad you're doing ok. Hope the independent is helpful and not a wally....good luck for Friday. As for the second opinion, I'm sure these professionals have no clue how long two weeks can be...

Take care and have some fun where you can :)

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on October 14, 2012, 07:51:15 AM
Well I had the independent on Friday.  He said at the start that it was not a consultation but was for to write a report.

He asked heaps of questions, had a play around with my leg.

At the end I asked what he thought and said I was not to tell anyone that he told me.  But he thinks that I need to have the ligament that goes from the bottom of my patella to the top of my shin moved because he thinks it sits tofar on the outside of my shin.

I spoke to my physio at hydro an hour after that and he was a little suprised and said that surgery is not done much anymore.  I think he called it a tibial transfer?

Does anyone know much about them.  He said about a 9 to 12 month recovery for one of them.  What is the recovery like as far as running etc goes?  Are they successful?
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on October 14, 2012, 04:27:18 PM
Eek. Tibial transfer sounds fun then with a 9-12 month recovery... :-\ It's probably best to google it, and post the question in a new thread on general questions, or have a look through the sections on here in the specialist section. Or...you could search the KGs site - it'll bring up any threads that include your search term, I've found it very useful in the past. Always best to be a bit wary of one guy's suggestion, especially if your physio thinks it's an outdated procedure... I would think your surgeon would only do it if there was a clear benefit to you - ie if the benefits outweighed the risks. This tibial transfer, together with previous thoughts about your MPFL and the rest, is a bag of tricks only your surgeon can sort out!

How is life generally at the mo? Hope you've had a good weekend and managed a bit of  :) at times!

Take care,

Brams  ;)

Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on October 15, 2012, 04:06:05 AM
Thanks Brams.

I had a good weekend.  Went back to my mum's place.  She lives in Newcastle which is about 4.5hrs away from us.  My 9yo son spent his 2 weeks school holidays there.  So a nice quiet weekend.  Caught up with some old mates I haven't seen for a while.

I will start a new thread.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on October 15, 2012, 08:54:55 AM
A new thread for your tibial transfer question will hopefully bring some answers fairly quickly...fingers crossed.

I've never been to Newcastle, it's a long way from us here in the south midlands! Is it nice there? Good to meet up with friends you've known for years, must have been lovely to relax and chat a bit, especially if it was over a pint... ;D

Have a good day. It's blinkin' freezing here brrrr, well it feels freezing but is actually about 6*C, warm as toast compared to some temperatures we've had over the last few years!!!

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on October 18, 2012, 01:12:27 PM
Hey Brams I am in Australia so that is Newcastle just north of Sydney.  lol


Well I had to see an Occupational Therapist this afternoon for work and he writes a report that goes along with the independent surgeon I saw last week.  He was ok and said he was to write a report on how long he thinks before I can go back to pre injury duties if at all.  He said not alot he can say at the moment.


Funny thing was I ran into my surgeon in the carpark and said hello.  I mentioned the tibial transfer that the independent mentioned and he said no that won't be needed.  He said that is more for instability and mal alignment which I don't have now cause of the MPFL.  So he said just wait till Thursday next week after the second opinion.

Really over it.  Had a big fight with my wife tonight.  She is really starting to feel it.  Having to do so much.  She does everything as well as working fulltime.  But this was a big fight.  Hope all is better in the morning.  I am sleeping on the lounge.

Good Night,

Thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on October 18, 2012, 02:06:37 PM
Oh crumbs Thommo  :-\ that was a sad end to the day.... Sleeping on the couch is not good.

Health problems put such a lot of strain on a marriage - like you say, the balance is suddenly shifted massively, and one person ends up doing 90% of the work while the other person feels terrible from their illness/injury and guilty as hell because they can't help much. I've been through that stage with my husband, and we had arguments and sulks and tension palpable in the house. It's a lot better now, because although my husband still has to do the lions share, we talk a lot more, I have found ways to do more, and he understands what is happening to me because I've told him all about it, he's come to some appointments and heard the docs, and I encouraged him to read and learn about my condition so that it's not just coming from me. And I suppose because we've all settled in to the way things are because mine is a long-term thing.

Have you considered showing her this site? And maybe your threads? It's clear to me that you love your wife and feel terrible about the way things are.... On the other hand, I keep this site as just mine, nobody else in the family reads it, so it's a bit like a diary. The anonymity is half the charm I suppose.

Oh dear, sorry if I sound preachy! I don't know everything, I can only give you my view, for whatever it's worth. Try not to worry too much and beat yourself up about it, it sounds as though both of you were letting off steam and venting feelings, and sometimes you need that to clear the air.

I really REALLY hope you'll be back in your own room tomorrow and have been able to mend fences with your wife.

On the OT and your surgeon - so frustrating when you feel out of the loop and have to wait for even the basic information. How strange, to just run onto your OS like that! But all you can do is wait, as he said. Bit of a bummer tho.... Still, it's only a week, and you will hopefully know a lot more. Knowing is half the battle I think, a lot of your anxiety and stress now is probably down to this limbo time you're stuck in.

 ;D Didn't even know there WAS a Newcastle in Australia!!!!! Duh! Oh well, learn something every day and all that....lol. I'll look it up on Googlemaps and educate myself! I'm in north Gloucestershire near Cheltenham in England, so quite a way away!

Hope all goes well with your wife tonight, and you have better news in your next post  :)

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on October 19, 2012, 06:04:01 AM
Thanks Brams.  I appreciate the advice.  It all seems better today.  We have spoken a few times on the phone while we were both at work.  I think I just forget sometimes how much it affects her and the kids.  I just get wrapped up in how crap or sore I feel.

Well I get to go and watch my 9yo play his first game of cricket on Sunday so am looking forward to that.

I just got an email back from a OS in Sydney as I wanted to see him for a second opinion.  I wouldn't be able to get in to see him till Feb.  Guess I need to find someone else.

So frustrating.  I have a life that is currently on hold cause of this s**t!!

Sorry rant over.  I will let you know how I go on Thursday next week.


thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on October 19, 2012, 08:58:50 AM
Hey Thommo, good to hear things are a bit better. Getting wrapped up in dealing with your own pain and worries is understandable, and we all do it from time to time... ::)

On the second opinion OS, I wouldn't write him off just yet - a 3 or 4-month wait isn't that bad for an OS, particularly if he's got a good reputation. Wait and see what happens with your appointment next week, you might feel better about things and not find Feb as far off... :)

Hope you have a fab time watching your son play on Sunday - which does he prefer, batting, bowling or fielding? I love cricket, it's really frustrating that so much of it is on Sky and we can't watch it without paying for a hefty subscription. Grr...

I'm off to look at wheelchairs this afternoon with my husband, I hope the process of actually getting one is a bit faster than the rest of the medical process, which seems to take forever ::). Can't believe I'm almost looking forward to it in a weird way....I just want some freedom back and get out a bit more! Always assumed a wheelchair would be only for my old age, not now. Oh well. My leg's been awful recently, and anything that takes my mind off it must be good!

Hope you have a good day. Must be getting warmer down there now, it's getting mighty nippy in the morning here!!!

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: JTB on October 20, 2012, 02:01:27 AM
Hey Thommo,

Have just sped through your posts-
                                                      Good luck
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on October 20, 2012, 10:50:44 AM
Hi JTB,

You are not offending at all or wasting my time.  I get a certain amount of pleasure hearing other out there in a similar position.  And I hope that doesn't sound bad but good to know it is not weird to feel the way I do.

Yep I definitely agree that no-one really understands what it is like to go from those sorts of training numbers to nothing.  I have a few medical people stop and say gee that is a real change from 20hrs a week training to nothing but I still don't think they really get it.

I will have a look at that supplement and may give it a try.  As far as the bike goes I still haven't got the ROM to ride as yet.  So unfortunately I can't even do that.

Thanks for the advice.  WIll keep you all updated after my second opinion on Thursday.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: JTB on October 20, 2012, 03:38:54 PM
Thommo,


                             Look forward to reading about your doc visit.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on October 21, 2012, 03:13:38 AM
Thanks JTB. 

Yeah I can't wait till I get that bit further on.  Even raising the seat at the moment wouldn't quite do it for me just yet.

I am going to give the collagen a try and see how it goes.  Just want to get this visit done.  But the worst part is I go to every appointment thinking I am going to get an answer but never seem to so am really hoping I do.

I have no problem having more surgery as long as they say it will work and it is not just a fishing expedition where they say this may work but we are not sure.

Cheers,

thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on October 21, 2012, 10:01:58 AM
Hi Thommo,

Sadly, a lot of surgeons these days work on percentages and will rarely give you that kind of promise - and tbh if they did they would be lying! There are so many variables, and every knee is different... All you can do is ask how confident they are, how many times they've done that specific surgery and how successful it is, what kind of aftercare will you get, how long is recovery time at best and worst, etc. Questions questions  ::)

The search for an answer, confident and correct, is what a lot of KGs want. Personally, I've been given assertions in the past by a doc who seemed to know what he was talking about - and then were proved completely wrong. I try not to get hung up on that one now... Now, i ask questions, do my own research, and listen to my own intuition. Of course I don't know everything, and I'm not a surgeon  :o but it does help to protect you a bit - they don't know everything either!

All the best,

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: JTB on October 21, 2012, 04:42:13 PM
Hi Thommo,

Bramble has a lot of sage advice.

                       Good luck at the docs, hope you get good news and a sense of moving in the right direction. least.                                       
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on October 25, 2012, 07:12:38 AM
Well I had my appointment today with the other surgeon.  That was at 11am.  It is now 5pm and I am so sore.  He was quite thorough(read) rough in his assessment.  He looked at everything and I know he was doing the manual tests that he had to do on my knee but gee it hurt. 

He is also thinking the original repair on the MPFL is too tight.  He said he has seen it where the original graft can shrink after surgery and if that is the case it will have to be re done.  The other thought is that one of the screws may have screwed itself in a little more and tightened the graft after surgery.

So he wants me to have a CT scan at different degrees 0, 15, 30 & 60 degrees to have a look at it.  That is fine but can't get back in till 3rd Dec.  So another  5.5 weeks to wait.  I really just want to walk away from it all and forget about it.  I really don't know if I can keep going with it all.  The knee that is.


Cheers,

thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on October 25, 2012, 10:45:02 AM
Hi thommo,

Well, it's a plan, which is what you needed. :) Better that your surgeon wants to do the CT scan and be sure than just delve into your poor knee on a fishing expedition.... :( I know the wait is the soul-destroying bit, but you CAN get through it and you will. One day at a time.

I'm not trying to make out you're lucky in any way, but I'd give my right arm for a plan and solution!  ;D

Sorry your knee is so unhappy after the examination....always pours salt into the wound... :-\

Gosh I'm a bit emoticon-happy today, better stop before I use them all.

Had a horrific night last night myself for no particular reason, my whole leg was extremely painful, both feet burnt, it was pretty miserable. My poor husband got home tired after work and training, and I just fell apart there and then. My youngest had a friend round as well, and she walked in and saw me sobbing on his shoulder. I suppose it was funny, looking back now, but at the time I couldn't appreciate it - she came in with her friend behind her, saw me, turned abruptly and turned her friend by her shoulders to face the other way, and just pushed her out! I did feel bad afterwards, but she seemed fine later on.... Oh well.

Take care of yourself Thommo. This too will end. Have faith in yourself, you're stronger than you think, and we're here for you to vent at. Bring it on - we can cope!  8)

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Lottiefox on October 25, 2012, 05:38:59 PM
Thommo

I am glad you've seen someone who has a plan and who wants to do proper investigative scans before fishing about in your knee. It does suck to wait again for the scans but perhaps there might be a cancellation? You CAN keep going with all this - it does seem interminable at times and you do just want to wake up with a normal limb. Keep fighting, this surgeon sounds motivated to help you and thorough. Those are two big things for someone who might be going to cut on your leg again - a good indicator. As Brams says one day at a time...it is a cliche but its so true with knees.  ;) :D

You are strong, you've already shown that. Hang on in there.

Lottie

PS Brams sorry you had a horrible night.  :'(
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on November 13, 2012, 07:21:33 AM
Well I picked up my CT results that I had last Thursday.  I don't go back to the surgeon till 3rd Dec.  Below is a copy of the report.


The left knee (injured one) when relaxed and contracted shows mild left patella lateral sublaxation which is greater at 0 degrees than at 60 degrees.  The right patellofemoral joint appears normal.  Subchondral articular surfaces bilaterally are normal.  The left femur shows post operative track within it.



Does anyone know what that means?


thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on November 13, 2012, 09:36:08 AM
 
Hi Thommo,

It's always fun when there's such a wait between report and surgeons appt... ::) I would interpret it as follows:

"Mild left patella lateral subluxation" - left patella is your kneecap, lateral means towards the outside of your knee (ie not towards the other knee when stood together), subluxation means the kneecap is moving out of its proper track to some extent. But they do say "mild" so it is a very minor movement beyond what it should be. Subluxation is improper tracking, not dislocation (which means the patella has left the groove and not gone back).
"greater at 0 degrees than at 60 degrees" - this is referring to how bent your leg is. 0 degrees is when your leg is straight, 90 degrees is when it is at right angles, as when sat in an upright chair.
So the report is saying that your patella is slightly further out of its rightful track when your knee is straight, than when it is bent. This is important info for you surgeon, when deciding what surgical stuff he could do to improve things (and indeed whether he SHOULD!). Subluxation is normally first treated by physical therapy exercises to straighten the thigh muscles to hold the patella in its proper place as your knee bends.

"The right patellofemoral joint appears normal" - good! Your right kneecap tracks as it should, and your cartilage etc looks normal.

"Subchondral articular surfaces bilaterally are normal" - Subchondral articular surfaces means the tissues below the cartilage (which is the smooth white gliding surface covering the end sof your bones where they come together to form a joint). Bilaterally means both knees. All good.

"Left femur shows post-operative track within it" - Hmm. Not sure on this. I suspect it means that your thigh bone is showing a mark from where your surgeon operated before. Can't find any reference to it online I'm afraid. I don't think this is anything major.

So your left kneecap is moving out of track a bit. I would expect your surgeon to propose a course of PT to specifically strengthen your IT band (hope I've got that one right!) to help hold your kneecap in it's groove more securely. You'll need to avoid squatting too far, especially if you're carrying anything, and not over-bending your knee (normal range should be ok). Go careful until you can see a physio and get a proper analysis though!

Hope this helps. How are you doing otherwise? How is life treating you now? ;) Hope things are a bit better and you are getting some good days in amidst the pain and anxiety of wondering what's going on...

Take care of yourself,

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on November 13, 2012, 10:26:32 AM
Thanks Brams.

My question would be why after a MPFL recon is it still sublaxing to the outside.  I thought the MPFL was to keep it centred and not let it sublax.  Also I was at the point where I was ready to start running again when this pain started back in March.  So I had quite good muscle strength and flexibility.  So what else can be done other then more PT?



thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on November 13, 2012, 02:40:27 PM
Hi Thommo,

I dont know enough about the MPFL to answer withut googling, but I suppose the answer to your last question is possibly that your surgeon might suggest doing a lateral release. The theory (and practice I suppose) is that loosening the lateral reticulum (sp?) - the ligament that attaches to the left (lateral, or outer) side of your knee cap - may be too tight, pulling your kneecap to the left too much, contributing or causing the subluxing. Loosening that then should allow your kneecap to sit back in a 'better' position in your trochlear groove...

It sounds perfect, but lateral release has its issues. There's no shortage of people on KGs who've had a bad experience, but you have to weigh that against the fact that sites like this exist for those looking for help and support  ::) so you hear more negatives than you might otherwise. However, LRs used to be performed a lot more freely than they are now, and some OSs have stopped doing them altogether because of the long-term instability that was caused to the kneecap. After all, it's a complicated balance of forces holding that little bone in place, and altering those forces throws everything out if not done right. Also, with LR you are looking at an 18-month recovery period. Many here would argue that PT is always better than surgery and cutting into that knee again - but when you've tried that and are still in pain and just want to be well, even surgery starts to look good!

I know it's hard ((hollow laugh)) but wait and see what your surgeon has to say in a couple of weeks time. Only he can really say... But take in a list of questions ready, and make sure he explains everything so you come out of the room with a clear picture. You'll have the info, then you can do your research here and on the web, and decide what to do that is best for you and your knee. It's not going to be easy, whatever happens, but with a plan you can at least work towards something and see light at the end of the tunnel.

I'll have a read up on the MPFL, it's time I learnt  ;D

Hope you're having a good day and the knee's not too bad  :)

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on November 14, 2012, 10:14:27 AM
Yeah I am not real keen on having a LR.  But not real keen on going down thePT route.  I have been in physio since April last year.  Got back to a week out from running when it started to give me pain so I really don't think more PT is going to help.


Maybe the MPFL isn't too tight.  Maybe it needs to be tighter?
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on November 19, 2012, 12:30:08 AM
Well my physio asked me this morning if I could call the OS office to try and get in earlier.  I did but no luck.  I then asked if I needed surgery is there any chance of getting in before xmas and was told not it wouldn't be till mid to late Jan.

So guess I have to wait till 3rd Dec and just hope to get a answer.


Had such a crap weekend of sleep.


thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on November 19, 2012, 12:38:58 AM
 :( oh I hear you Thommo, I'm not sleeping properly at the moments just worn outwith pain, driving me a teensy bit mad. I really hope you sleep tonight.

Sorry you can't see your OS sooner, and no chance of surgery until new year, but better that than a rushed decision any day  ::) it's always worth ringing your OS office and asking again - if you're persistent, then if they get a cancellation they'll think of you (it does work sometimes!).

Not too long to go, I see my OS next week but I know they'll just repeat the 'doesn't really matter, we can't operate until the CRPS quiets down' line. And goodness knows when that will be...

Take care of yourself, I'll be thinking of you and hoping you've found those elusive zzzzzzzz's

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on November 19, 2012, 03:16:44 AM
Thanks Brams.  I am trying to look at going into this next appointment with the mindset that I am not going to get an answer and that he will just say lets keep going with physio and see what happens.  Only because everytime I go I expect to get an answer and then feel deflated each time cause I don't get one.

Do they have any idea as to when your CRPS will quiet down enough for surgery?

I think I am the same as you.  I am tired from not sleeping and grumpy cause I can't get enough sleep.  I have also had a really big last 3 weeks with work and that has worn me out a lot.  I worked from 0530 this morning till 1000 and then came home cause I just had no energy or zest left.

I really hate being like this.  On the weekends I say how bored I am but there is only so much we can do as a family cause I get sore or can't do some things.  And I know my wife is tired as well from having to do so much.

This next 2 weeks can't go quick enough I tell you.  Just want to get this done.  My wife and I even decided that if I needed surgery before xmas and would be sore and not be able to move much then so be it.
thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on November 19, 2012, 10:43:39 AM
Thommo, you echo so much of how I feel. It's not fun by any stretch. Last night we were at my parents for tea, and my CRPS kicked off at about 6pm as usual. The pain is just horrible, and I have to get my sock and boot off and get that leg up ASAP. Problem is that this has become a bit normal for everyone, and they're just past it. My husband came over to me once I was sat in the living room, but everyone else stayed at the table chatting, and I just felt so lonely and such a nuisance...

The honest truth is that people have a sympathy limit, especially if they don't understand what's going on, and why you're not better yet. They like illness to be clear, something they know about (or think they know), and to follow a normal path through treatment to cure. If it goes on too long they almost switch off. A friend of mine has cancer and has a poor prognosis - even her family can't deal with it day-to-day and she feels like everyone is pretending it's not happening. Friends are drifting away, she spends too much time alone, thinking, and feels she can't show her true state of mind. It's so sad, but I think maybe humans are just like that, maybe you just can't keep up that initial level of sympathy/compassion/interest...

All the more need for KGs and people like you and me who can say yes, yes I feel like that too and I understand, you are not alone. That's as good as the pills some days.

As for my CRPS quieting, I honestly don't know. Docs have been telling me for six months that this is a flare and that it will subside in a couple of weeks, but things are just getting worse. Last night was the worst so far in terms of my foot, and that's saying something. I wouldn't let a surgeon near me at the moment anyway, if it weren't for my worsening right knee with its OA, I wouldn't bother keeping my appointment.

We need to try and find some bright things to think about. Make a plan of how we're going to spend the next two weeks, keep a diary, that kind of thing. Anything but concentrate on the gloomy stuff! :) Baby steps. You've got two weeks until that appointment, so just plan for two weeks and try not to think too far beyond that for now. I can concentrate on two weeks.......

Keep  :) where you can Thommo, and find some stuff to laugh at. There's always something else going on to think about!

Take care of yourself, and I hope you have a good day. I'm on a quiet one today so am trying to make a new physio exercise plan. I've been crap lately, just doing day to day stuff seems to take all my strength and hurts enough, my exercises have suffered a bit. I'm trying to get back on track, but every time I try to push the exercises up a bit, the pain levels ramp up and my knee instability gets worse, it swells more, then I have more pain at night, can't sleep, more tired, more miserable.......blah blah blah.... I'm sure you know what I mean ::) ;D

Time to break out of it I suspect. Well, give it a go anyway!

Good luck with your life too  ;)

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on November 20, 2012, 12:25:35 AM
Thanks Brams.  And I am really sorry to hear you had such a bad night at your parents.

I know what you mean about others having it become such a normal thing.  I say to my wife that I am really sore and she will just say oh ok.  She has said to me she is at the point where she can't say anything else because she is so used to me saying I am sore or tired.  I have had today off work cause I just needed a break.  I couldn't face going in again today.  I needed a day to just sit on the lounge without anyone else here so I could just zone out.

I feel bad but.  My wife works so hard and my kids don't really understand.  We are building a house at the moment and things are starting to pop up that we now have to find money to pay for.  I would normally be able to do those things myself but can't cause of my leg and I can't even do the overtime to get extra money to pay for them.

2 weeks to go.  I can't wait.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on November 20, 2012, 09:48:06 AM
Hi Thommo,

Really good idea to take a day off and just have some space. I hope you've got a couple of decent films or computer games lined up tho, because daytime tv is just AWFUL!!!  :o ;D Not that I would know, of course.....lol.

Another tired day today methinks. Did my physio plan yesterday and did about half the exercises, but as one of those was 15 minutes steady on the exercise bike at low resistance, I think I did quite well. One of the worst is the one where I just have to stand and try to get my knee properly straight, hurts like hell so I only did a few. Maybe a slow build, that one!

Today I am experimenting with wire jewellery. I used to make beaded jewellery with a friend and sell at fairs etc, but haven't for a year and more now (can't think why), so I thought I'd get back into it and try to do something different. I got some wire the other day and I'm just going to have fun today seeing what, if anything, I can do that might be sellable. Lol.

Have a good day Thommo, an R&R day.... 8)

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Treeburn on November 20, 2012, 05:41:59 PM
Ok here goes.

I had my last patella dislocation in March 2011 whilst at work.  The suregeon went conservative first and after trying very hard with PT I had a MPFL on 6th June 2011.  Again back into PT and it was very slow going.  In November 2011 I changed physios and also had cortisone injections as I had started to get a bad sharp pain behind the kneecap.  I had only reached a maximum of 115 degrees of flexion.  That did not help at all.  By the time March 2012 this year the pain behind the patella when I bent it or tried to crouch, climb stairs etc got worse.

Had an MRI and it found a small flap on the kneecap and grade 2 chondromalacia.  So in July this year I had a scope with a clean up and the OS thought that would work.  He said it was actually grade 3 when he got in there.  Cleaned it all up and thought it was ok.  Checked everything else while he was in there as well.

Now 8 weeks post op I still have that same pain behind the patella and it is driving me nuts.  I had an ultrasound with cortisone injections 7 days ago and it has not worked at all.  The man who did the injections and ultrasound suggested it may be necrosis in the kneecap.

What do you guys think?  I am over this.  It has been 18mths.  I just want to move on.  If it is the fact it is too bad it won't let me back to work I am prepared to deal with that. 

I am at the point I am ready to ask for a patella replacement.

thommo404
Hi, I am going on my 6th surgery in less than a year. I am out of disability, and now on food stamps. All I had was a meniscus tear and everything went wrong. I just had a meniscal transplant and now it does not seem to be gettting better and I am having surgery next week. I am so tired of people asking me what is wrong with my knee. i wish i knew! I just found this website and was hoping for support but no one responded to my post. boo hoo:)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on November 20, 2012, 06:45:54 PM
Hey Treeburn!

So sorry no one replied to your initial post  ??? - sometimes it can take a while, I don't really look in the new posts section so much now, but having seen this I will...

I can't imagine six surgeries in a year - one was bad enough! What is your next surgery? I'm sorry your transplant failed, I know any kind of transplanted tissue has a higher rate of failure than the (so-called) straightforward ops... I don't know much about meniscal transplants I'm afraid, but I know surgery hurts and takes a while to recover from in the best of circumstances, so I can readily imagine that you've been through hell. I'll cross my fingers for your surgery next week and hope that something finally goes right for you. When do you go in? And how long are you going to be in hospital for?

When I saw your line of "I'm so tired of people asking me what is wrong with my knee" I smiled ironically.... I bet most of the KneeGeeks would say the same thing! It does get old... ::) The KGs are a friendly bunch really, sometimes a post just gets missed, so try not to take it personally.

Whereabouts do you live? I'm in the Uk, but there's a lot of KGs in Canada and the USA, as well as a fair few in Australia and elsewhere. Hope you are somewhere warmer! It's cold, raining and dark here in England, and I'm seriously considering lighting the fire.... ;D

Take care of yourself with all those preparations and no doubt lots of worry about this surgery. I'll be hoping your luck changes.

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on November 23, 2012, 11:31:18 AM
Treeburn that is sad news.  Hope all goes well with your surgery and you get a good result and recovery.

That is one thing I have been lucky with.  Mine happened at work so it is all taken care of.

Well Brams I ended up taking 2 days off.  I really needed it.  Went to hydro today and really suffered.  I am done with this whole thing I think.  I can't face continuing on with more physio/hydro if that is what the surgeon tells me to do when I see him in 10 days time.  I have been doing PT for the last 20 months basically non stop and it hasn't worked.  I was at the stage when I was a week away from running again when it all went down hill with the pain. 

I can't see how doing more PT is going to fix it.  I now only have 1cm difference in the size of my quads.  So the muscle is back.  I am really over it.  If it is that bad when I have the muscle back I don't see what PT is going to do.


I need a decision.  I need to move on with my life.  If he says there is nothing that can be done then I am ready to face that with work in that I can't be operational anymore.  But I need that decision to be made.  Our life has been on hold for 21 months when I see him again.  We haven't been able to go on a family holiday.  I can't sleep properly.  I get cranky and grumpy easily.  And I am really scared that it will end my marriage because of the person it is turning me into because of the lack of sleep, not knowing etc.

thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on November 23, 2012, 02:00:26 PM
Hi Thommo,

You are dealing with a dreadful time, and I do feel for you. But please don't give up and abandon the hope that things will improve. I completely understand your frustration about work - I recently finally resigned from my old job. I hadn't worked there since March 2011, and had been hanging on and hanging on, not wanting to let go of my old self who worked there and did all the other things I did back then....

But do you know what? My life HAS changed, whether I like it or not. So I've resigned. And unexpectedly, I feel a bit better about things. I'm ok with having cut at least one bit of crap free and let it go. Took me a long time though and I do still miss it a bit.

I understand your frustration at the physio, drives me mad to drive half an hour to talk to someone about my knee and repeat the same old things, do a few exercises, come home again - but it does keep your knee and muscles moving regularly, and gives your physio a chance to assess your knee and report any changes or problems back to the surgeon. At least I hope that's what he's doing!

When you see your surgeon, I suggest you tell him how you feel about it in the same way you have done here. You are right to want some sort of resolution to this, a plan at least, not just long-term physio that is resolving nothing and causing more pain. He needs to decide whether you can be helped by surgery or not. And your work situation definitely needs deciding - once you've explained, maybe ask him directly about work and whether he can give you some sort of medical opinion so that you can start to move on.

Life changes with stuff like this, but it does move on. You'll get through this period of frustration and worry, and find your way again. I felt so hopeless for a long long time, and still get days of gloom. But it is getting less, and although the pain and problems are still there, you do find a way to deal with it.

I hope you don't mind me asking, but have you seen a psychologist at all? I saw one and did a mindfulness course as part of my pain management thing, and if you're honest and just say what's in your head, they can really help you. You sound so lost and desperate, and I think you deserve some help with that. No medic can switch off your pain and problems with a magic wand (damn shame), but it can get easier to deal with. Personally I was very sceptical about the psychological angle of this, but over the last few months I've felt some benefits and I think it's worth a go. Nearly anything is worth a go when you get to rock bottom. Might even be worth asking if they can recommend anyone you could see with your wife. You must both have problems with the situation, and dealing with it together might help if your relationship is suffering....might help you both.

You don't seem like a bad person Thommo  :) just a good man near the end of his tether, who wants to get on with his life. You can get through this bad time and find some hope for the future again.

Take care of yourself and your family as much as you can, I'm sure they know how hard you are trying.

Keep talking!

Brams  ;)

Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on November 24, 2012, 12:05:56 PM
Thanks Brams.

To answer yes I have seen a psych.  Gave me a little bit of help.  We tried some pain relief techniques as well but with no luck.


Just over it.  As far as work goes mine is a work injury so it is all tied back to work with it being a compo case.  I don't want to resign.  They are great to me and have been great to me with this injury.  In fact if I hadn't had this injury I wouldn't have ended up in my current role as a senior trainer.

My physio is great.  I had one before him and she was terrible.  Gave me some excersises.  But my appointment usually consisted of sitting there while she massaged the knee for ten mins and that was it.  Now I have constant supervision, assistance, guidance and discussion about where it is at.

I just want that answer.  That is all I want at the moment.  I have probably lost $50k due to not being able to do overtime.  we are building a house at the moment and little things are coming up and normally I would do an overtime or 2 and it would be covered but I can't at the moment.  I so badly want to be able to do it all so my wife can have everything she wants for it but we can't.  Not that she wants the best of everything but things like the fence, a retaining wall that will need to be done before the fence can be done, grass.  We have 2 dogs so the fence is quite important for when we move in.

The grass is quite important cause our 2 kids need somewhere to play.

I am really over the lot of it.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on November 24, 2012, 01:08:53 PM
Hey Thommo,

Have a good day wherever possible and I hope you get to do something nice with your family, even if it's just watching a vid together! We have movie evenings once a week now and watch some classic cheesy film...nice and cosy, and the kids like the 'all together' thing  :)

Glad your physio is so good, that must be a huge help and even more reason to keep seeing him! Wish mine was as hands on...

Take care,

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: MyKnee2010 on November 24, 2012, 01:46:07 PM
Hi Thommo,

I've been following your thread & understand how you feel. I've been dealing with chronic knee pain for the last 4 years. This week, it was 3 years ago that my left knee was replaced. I had no idea 3 years ago that I would still be having such problems. Probably a good thing or I would have been very discouraged!

Anyways, I found I was putting my life on hold, waiting for that time when my knees were all better. Last summer, I finally decided I wasn't going to live my life based on my knees. I am still hopeful that my knees will get better some day but I can't wait around for that day. 

So, I started doing the things I wanted to.  I kept saying I wanted to get a puppy but I better wait until my knees were better. Heck with that! I found a sweet little puppy born in a rescue & we adopted him. He's the greatest little dog! We love him & our older dog loves having a companion. We kept putting off a vacation too - I figured why pay to go somewhere if I was just going to hurt? Again - heck with that! We're now planning on taking a nice vacation soon.

I am still seeing doctors, researching, learning all I can to help find a resolution to my knee problems but my life is no longer on hold!

Good luck with your knee!

Phoebe
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on November 24, 2012, 05:42:15 PM
You're so right Phoebe - I know just what you mean, I guess it's similar to what I was trying to say about my job. You get to a point where hoping for your knees to 'get better' just means you are wasting precious time and emotional resources... Constant disappointment isn't good for the soul  :-\

We're booking a holiday for next year - been putting it off for ages, can't afford much, but a week together somewhere will still be a holiday 8)

Take care everyone, it's a nasty night here in the UK!

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on November 25, 2012, 05:35:24 AM
Thanks guy's.  Just having a real bad couple of days.

Been to the pool the last 2 days with the family.  I am paying for it big time pain wise.  But was good to get out, relax and have a laugh.


As far as work goes I love my job.  But I am willing to make the choice if I can't be operational again.  I have options inside the organisation I can go to.

Brams I know what you mean about a movie night.  On a Saturday night we have what we call family movie night.  We have been lucky for the last few months because every Sat night they have had a kids movie on at 630pm.  So works well for our 3yo.  We enjoy it as well cause we spend time as a family.


Thanks again for letting me have a spray.  Just 1 more week!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on November 25, 2012, 12:15:07 PM
You're welcome Thommo  ;D glad you're having a slightly better day...

Bad days happen to us all, and weeks where nothing goes well and you can't see the light at the end of the proverbial tunnel are things we've all suffered. It's horrible and miserable and venting your feelings on here is most definitely a GOOD THING 8)

Ah, movie night....we watched Top Gun last night, the kids were riveted! Bit of fruity language but pretty tame compared to most 12+ films these days! Glad you're family enjoys it as well - funny how it's the simple stuff that they enjoy doing with us...

Have a good day.

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on November 26, 2012, 05:46:15 AM
Yeah it's funny how much I enjoy watching a simple kids movie.  We watched Finding Nemo.  I love seeing them relax and enjoy it.  Top Gun is an oldie but a goodie.  I haven't watched it for a while now.

I loved it after my first surgery in June last year.  Cause I was not sleeping well at all I was able to stay up and watch every minute of every stage of the Tour De France that Australia's own Cadel Evans won.  Wish I had cycling to watch all the time!

I have a case officer at work and also an outside provider that helps with my return to work.  He came out to see me today because I have moved to a new office and needed to make sure I was set up properly.  He said that he happened to have dinner with my new surgeon on Saturday night.  He asked him about me and the surgeon replied with "ah yes.  I will try my best with his knee but......"


So will have to wait till Monday next week.



thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on November 26, 2012, 09:52:22 AM
Hi Thommo,

OMG what about patient confidentiality!  :o You are going to worry now about what he'll say, but try not to read too much into it (tricky I suspect, lol). I suppose at worst you can be prepared for some negative stuff, at best you can be pleasantly surprised!

I LOVE Le Tour!! Absolutely gripping stuff. I've read some really good books (fiction and non) about it too that I dip into when I'm suffering a bout of Tour-loss. The boys are just amazing, so brave and resilient, shame so much money in it now and big sponsorship, in some ways has made it less about the individual riders, and they are all amazing, not just the top names from Sky etc. I'd love to go and see a stage, preferably near the top of one of the big mountains - no hiking for me now though! Have to be one of those motor homes you see parked dangerously near precipices.....

Finding Nemo is cute. Mine loved that when they were a bit younger, we enjoyed it too!

Have a good day,

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Lottiefox on November 26, 2012, 11:55:01 AM
Thommo,

Your surgeon needs a lesson in confidentiality. I'd be FURIOUS.  :-X  Good luck with the appointment, hang on in there...

Top Gun is one my all time classics. I feel the need.....the need for a speed..... ;D

Lottie
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on November 27, 2012, 07:33:17 AM
Lottie/Brams,

I am not too concerned about the confidentiality.  Doesn't bother me with him talking to my case officer about it.  Anyone else and I would have a problem.

Brams you just had to throw that one in there about Team SKY cause you are from the UK and I'm from Australia didn't you!! ;)
I have to admit it was great for the sport to have an Aussie win in 2011 and a British rider win in 2012.  But 2012 was such a boring race.  Too many km's time trialling.  I think it would have been a different race had Froome been on a different team and ridden against Wiggins.

Sorry probably sounds like I am POM bashing but I'm not.


Monday can't come soon enough.  Really, really sore this afternoon.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on November 27, 2012, 10:05:16 AM
Hi Thommo,

Why yes you are indeed POM bashing!!!!!  :o ;D I like Wiggins immensely, but I'm well aware that Froome could have won it, and it was team tactics all the way... The time trialling thing was strange, there was a LOT. It's exciting when your man Wiggo is probably going to win and extend his lead  8) but not the most exciting part of the Tour for me. I like the proper all out race with no particular emphasis, some cruel climbs, killer downhills, the odd TT, the odd sprint race... I really felt for Cavendish, I like him although he is a bit of a loose cannon - at least he and Wiggo are real and not all management speak like some of the others. The way the race was done in 2012 really seemed unfair, with him just helping to get Wiggins to the front every time and not allowed to go for the sprints much. He's an awesome sprinter. I really felt for him in the Olympics when everything just crashed and burnt after he'd almost been promised that as a reward for sacrificing his Tour dreams. Madness tho! I'm not sure the whole Team Sky thing is healthy for the Tour. It's going to end up like our Premiereship football - a few teams with all the money having the best riders and making for a too-heavy (more boring) race. Cadel is ok as well.  ;D

Hope your soreness eases and you get a bit of a break this afternoon...

Take care,

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on November 28, 2012, 06:24:02 AM
Don't get me wrong I really like Wiggo.  He had an awesome year.  As for Cav well he is a bit of a loose cannon.  But I love watching him sprint.  Reminds me of Robbie McEwen in his prime years.  It was disappointing for him to lose the Olympics but it was also good to see him not get  it all his own way and have to fight for it.  Just a shame to see Vino win it.  Can't stand that man and never could.

Can't agree more about Team Sky.  Great concept when it started but not sure it is the way to go.  I hope GreenEdge our Aussie owned team dowsn't go the same way.  Awesome to read that Stuey O'Grady is going to ride the Tour again this year and equal big George's record of 17.  Stuey has said he will probably ride in 2014 as well to make it 18 Tours.  That is just crazy.

I could talk cycling all day!

Had a crap night with the pain.  Seems the same again this afternoon.  Hopefully it settles down a bit.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on November 28, 2012, 09:05:59 AM
Hi Thommo,

GreenEdge are a good solid team, don't know that the management are quite so crazy power-hungry and soulless as the Sky lot. So you might be ok there! I wish more than anything that they werent using race radios. Allegedly kept for safety reasons (yeah right) they just mean the management aspect of the race is the biggest thing, and they control what their team does from those crazy team cars... I am completely with you on Vino. Horrible horrible man. As he crossed the line, me and my husband both stood up shouting Nooooooooo!!!! I had to switch over when he was talking after the race or I might have said something I shouldn't in front of the kids, lol. Couldn't believe it when I heard that Stuart was going to ride again, the man is a quiet legend, doesn't get the hype of some other riders, but is all the better for it.

I think it is crazy that anyone rides the Tour more than once anyway - its such a punishing, cruel and crushing race I'd think any rider needed therapy for years afterwards... But they do, they say it's like a drug in itself. Which I can believe because even watching it feels a bit like that, the noise and colour, the tremendous fight between individuals, all the hype. And of course the legends themselves for us over here - the original Channel 4 commentators, Phil Liggett (who I think did his 40th Tour in 2012) and Paul Sherwen (who suffered over the mountain stages of 7 Tours himself!) who now present the coverage for ITV. I just love it. It's the best kind of theatre.

Ooh, don't get me started on cycling talk! Mind you, it's as good a way as passing time as any  ;)

Sorry last night was bad again. I had a bad start but then slept anyway for some reason, the Lyrica seem to make me very drowsy at the moment which is odd. Had terrible pains in the fat pad area, and more shock type pains in a few random places, but then it seemed to give up. Pain is a terrible thing to try and understand, can't believe that with all our technological advances, we still can't ease it....

Hope yours settles down today and you sleep a bit better tonight. I've got another quiet day here, the floods are going down a bit now round us so the roads are opening up again, but my mum can't make it over to babysit for my choir session this afternoon so I've had to miss it. Grrrr.

Take it easy!

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on December 01, 2012, 12:57:43 PM
Hi Brams,

We get Phil and Paul doing the majority of our commentary as well.  I love listening to them.  Paul is so good to listen to with his in depth knowledge of all of the climbs and roads and you can really tell he knows some of those climbs so well from suffering over them himself.

Well Thursday night was quite a good night for me.  I slept quite well.  Went to physio on Friday and again was quite sore afterwards but I knew that would be the case.  I spoke with them about what I should expect on Monday from the surgeon.  They agreed that if he says I should try physio for a little longer and see what happens then I should say no and ask for something else.  Like I have said and they agreed I will have been going for 21 months and physio has been a constant thing and it is not working.  We have tried a hell of a lot of things and still try new things.  I think something surgically needs doing.

Like my physio says they write an artical about someone's issue once a year and he thinks I will be the one.

Friday night was a shocker to sleep cause of the pain but our current house we are renting till our new one is built in Feb has no air con and it didn't get below 24 degrees last night after getting to 36 Friday.  So it was damn hot.

Another 34 today but a bit cooler tonight.  And only 27 tomorrow which is lucky cause my 10yo has cricket from 9am till 12pm.

It is midnight as I write this and I am still awake.  It is 1 more day to go before I hopefully get an answer.  I just can't wait!!!
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on December 01, 2012, 05:09:53 PM
Hi Thommo,

Glad you a managed to sleep and physio went as well as it could... ::) As for answers, hopefully not long to go then by the time you read this!! I will have everything crossed that you get the news you want - although as the type of news we all really want is unlikely, lol, I'll hope that you at least get a plan! You don't really want to be 'the one' for the article I know, but at least it means you are 'interesting' to them! ;)

I'm pleased you get (and like) Paul and Phil too down there, they do have that ability to make the Tour come alive, even though they must surely have seen and heard it all before! Paul certainly has that way of conveying how awful some of the stages are to a rider. He lives it again... :o

I've heard you're having a major heat wave, how mean that you can't get a bit cooler at night when you really need it...hope you get some cool weather soon!

I've had a really busy day today and just sat down, my feet and knees are killing me! Haven't planned anything for tea either, bad wife that I am  :P and being a coeliac a lot of fast food is out of the question for me. We tend to homecook nearly everything, but tonight I have no clue what we're having for tea!!! Whoops.

Take care,

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on December 02, 2012, 10:08:52 AM
Brams in a way that is probably a good thing that you can't eat too much takeaway.  Wish I was like that.  I have eaten way too much since my injury.

Another crap night last night.  Got to sleep around 2am and awake at 6am.  1 more night to go.  Just 14hrs to go now before i see the surgeon.  I can't wait.



thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on December 02, 2012, 11:08:20 AM
Hi Thommo,

Sorry you had another rough night. Didnt sleep well myself so I'm feeeling that groggy pain thing too, though not as bad. Nearly time for that appointment, hang onto that thought today - and don't forget your notes! I'm sure you know this, but I'm going to say it anyway - he maybe won't be able to do everything you want, or hope for the outcome you want, so the old motto applies.....prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

I'm seeing my pain doc tomorrow and will be being titrated (posh word for 'gradually moved' lol) onto new meds. Gosh I'm sure that'll be a fun time  ::) ;D

I'll be rooting for you that it goes well! Positive thinking...

Take care today.

Brams  ;)

Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on December 03, 2012, 06:22:43 AM
Well had my appointment today.

He has asked me to go back to my surgeon which I have been lucky enough to be able to get into on Thursday.  Today he has suggested that I need a Lateral Realease.  He has also suggested a Tibila Tubercele Transfer as well.  He said although my measurement is not too bad he thinks that because of the arthritis I alraedy have it makes sense to do the TTT and move the kneecap out a little to relieve the pain and also reduce the ongoing cause.

So good news is that we have a plan.  Just hope my surgeon doesn't say that he only wants to do the LR.  Like the OS said today.  May as well get them both done rather than just the LR and then see how it goes and have to come back again to do the TTT.

So will see what he says on Thursday.


thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on December 03, 2012, 02:54:40 PM
Hi Thommo,

Glad it went well today and you have a plan now and can look forward.... You can have some fun  ;) reading up on the LR and TTT and what to expect. Did he seem pretty definite about those procedures being able to help? There seems to be a pretty narrow band of people who benefit from a LR - make sure the case is compelling and you have a good chance of a successful outcome. Worth asking your surgeon on Thursday to put a percentage on it - always interesting... LRs have had some bad press on this site, but read around, ask lots of questions of your surgeon, and make sure that he is sure it is the best thing to do for your situation. If he's happy and you're happy...... He probably said, but the recovery rehab time from an LR is 18 months and lots of physio  ::) Add a TTT onto that, and that's a big surgery.

How lucky that you got in to see your guy on Thursday like that! Makes a nice change to get some quick answers.

Take care in the meantime and enjoy that homework  ;D

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on December 07, 2012, 05:43:21 AM
Well I had my appointment with my surgeon yesterday.  He said he agreed that I needed both procedures and that it made a lot of sense to do them.

He then said if I was comfortable with it that he would prefer if I had the other surgeon do it as he has more experience with th TTT.  I am happy with that and respect my surgeon for saying that.  At least he is not a cowboy after cash and just doing it anyway.

So I will know for sure on Monday next week but looks like I will be in on 16th Jan for the surgery.


thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on December 07, 2012, 11:57:49 AM
Hi again Thommo,

Wow. So glad your surgeon agrees, and has the sense to recommend that someone with more experience in the procedures does the surgery - there's too many that wouldn't I suspect! I'm relieved for you that you have a date to head towards and are reassured that this is hopefully the road towards better times  :) I will have my fingers firmly crossed come January the 16th!

At least you have Christmas and New Year madness to distract you a bit during the countdown.... I'll be hoping you can enjoy them a bit more now knowing that you have The Plan in place!

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on December 09, 2012, 05:34:23 AM
Thanks Brams.  Yeah it makes it a heck of a lot better to have that date and plan.

Although I really shouldn't have watched a youtube video of a TTT surgery last night.  Made me a little nervous.



thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on December 09, 2012, 11:42:44 AM
Lol!!!!  :o :-X :o I should think it would!!!!!

Get off you-tube and stop scaring yourself!! ;D

Have a good day Thommo....

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: FireAndIce328 on December 11, 2012, 05:00:39 PM
Ok here goes.

I had my last patella dislocation in March 2011 whilst at work.  The suregeon went conservative first and after trying very hard with PT I had a MPFL on 6th June 2011.  Again back into PT and it was very slow going.  In November 2011 I changed physios and also had cortisone injections as I had started to get a bad sharp pain behind the kneecap.  I had only reached a maximum of 115 degrees of flexion.  That did not help at all.  By the time March 2012 this year the pain behind the patella when I bent it or tried to crouch, climb stairs etc got worse.

Had an MRI and it found a small flap on the kneecap and grade 2 chondromalacia.  So in July this year I had a scope with a clean up and the OS thought that would work.  He said it was actually grade 3 when he got in there.  Cleaned it all up and thought it was ok.  Checked everything else while he was in there as well.

Now 8 weeks post op I still have that same pain behind the patella and it is driving me nuts.  I had an ultrasound with cortisone injections 7 days ago and it has not worked at all.  The man who did the injections and ultrasound suggested it may be necrosis in the kneecap.

What do you guys think?  I am over this.  It has been 18mths.  I just want to move on.  If it is the fact it is too bad it won't let me back to work I am prepared to deal with that. 

I am at the point I am ready to ask for a patella replacement.


thommo404

Sorry about your knee. I haven't read all of the replies except the last two listed under the reply post. What Brambledog said, youtube videos are worse than a haunted house. :D Just remember you will not be the one watching your own surgery. You'll be sleeping!
Hope all goes well. When are you having the replacement?
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on December 13, 2012, 07:22:52 AM
Hi Fireandice,

I'm not having a replacement done.  That was just how I felt when they couldn't work out what was wrong.  I am now having a Lateral Release and a TTT.  They are pretty sure it will hold the arthritis back and won't need a full replacement for quite a while.  After all I am only 35 next March.

I must say that Brams has been great for me to bitch and moan too even though we are on opposite sides of the world.

Well Brams I spoke with the surgeons EA on Monday and she said that I shouldn't need an appointment to see him but I probably won't get in till 25th Feb!!!  He is away on leave this week so she will confirm with him on Monday next week and let me know the exact date.

I think it sounds a little weird when I tell people that I can't wait and am excited to have the surgery!  Yes I am nervous but excited cause I am hoping to finally get an answer for this and hopefully it will be a result at least for 30 years or so.


thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on December 13, 2012, 10:27:05 AM
Aww Thommo you charmer  ;D

Hey, it works both ways you know. And when you feel pretty crappy yourself, trying to cheer someone else up is good for the soul, so when you think of it like that, you've been doing me a favour.... 8)

I'm glad you shouldn't be looking at too long for your appointment, even if Feb seems a long way away at the moment. Once Crimble is out of the way, the weeks will count down quick enough... I'll cross my fingers for a speedy appointment! I can totally get the excited thing, after all, you've waited a long time for something to finally change, and this surgery will be it. You've tried physio for a long time (although after your op you'll be doing a lot more of it!!).

You young thing. 35 seems a lifetime ago! I am a youthful 41 :), and feel about 60 today!!

Have a good day,

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: FireAndIce328 on December 14, 2012, 01:38:51 AM
Hi Fireandice,



I must say that Brams has been great for me to bitch and moan too even though we are on opposite sides of the world

I think it sounds a little weird when I tell people that I can't wait and am excited to have the surgery! 

^^^haha you're funny. Well, it's not bad to feel excited! It means you will not be in any pain any more. And the wait will be worth it. Maybe God didn't want you to have it until then.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on February 11, 2013, 11:24:24 PM
Hi everyone,

I haven't posted since Christmas.  Hope everyone had a great Christmas and New Year.

Well I am now inside of 2 weeks before my surgery.  Getting really excited now.  Just can't wait to get it over and done with and on that road to recovery.

My biggest fear is not the surgery or recovery it is actually my appointment with the surgeon next Tuesday 19th Feb.  I am a little worried that he will want to postpone the surgery or change his mind.  I don't think he will but I think because I have been going for so long now I just have that fear.

Our new house is almost finished so we are hoping to move next week.  I normally do the move for us but obviously can't at the moment.  I have put in an application with AUSPOL which is the Australian Police Welfare Fund and they assist officers when they need help.  Not that we are in dire straights but I can't expect my wife to do it for me.  So am really hoping they can help us out.

Work has been great.  I have so much to get fit again for.  I have been placed on a working group to work on some stuff for the entire organisation.  This is also looking like it may culminate in a trip to England to liaise with the British Police to ge information from them about there Public Order practices(that is riot police).  So that would be absolutely awesome.  Something I would love.  Never been to England so would love that to happen.

I have also got to get fit enough to do another course to become one of 3 senior trainers in the organisation.  So I am desperate for this surgery to be over with but also to work.

I will start a diary when I have the surgery and keep it updated.

Thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on February 12, 2013, 12:03:27 AM
Hi Thommo,

I'm glad things are going well and that yours looking forward to your surgery. I'll be wishing you all the best for next week, and that you have a speedy, positive outcome... :)

Take care of yourself, and good luck.

Brams  ;)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on February 19, 2013, 08:16:41 AM
Well had my appointment today to complete the gameplan.  The surgeon will be doing a Lateral Release, TTT and also loosening the MPFL that I had done 20 months ago.

Said I should only be in hospital 24hrs, about 6 weeks non weight bearing.


So now I just need these next 5 days to fly by.  Bring on Monday 25th!!


thommo
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on February 19, 2013, 09:01:09 AM
Hi Thommo,

Good to hear from you, can't believe your surgery has come around so fast - well it seems fast to me! I hope your move went (or is going) well, did you get some help in the end? Sounded like a good plan to organise some assistance, I can't imagine moving house by myself!

You must be excited, nervous, scared, everything all together I should think. I really hope you get the outcome you need from this surgery. Be prepared for a tough initial few weeks, and the rehab from the surgery is going to be a lot of hard work - but at least it gives you something to focus on at last which will be a completely change of mindset I should think.

Has your surgeon organised physio for you yet? Make sure you push for it if it isn't mentioned when you're in hospital - I'm not sure what the protocol is with your particular operation, but physio is always the most important rehab, and I know some folk have been discharged with no physio plan and had to wait weeks for it to start. That can hold back recovery.

Please start a post-op just before you go in so I (and others) can follow your recovery progress! I'll be rooting for you all the way, and hoping to hear good things. Can't imagine looking at 6 weeks of NWB - I've been back on my crutches in the house for three weeks and it's getting to me lol - the biggest thing that made life easier is one of those thermal mugs with a lid so I could make and carry in my own cup of tea/coffee! I have a bag with a long strap that I put over my shoulder cross-wise, and then I can get to the kitchen, make a drink and a sandwich or whatever, put them in the bag, and get safely back to the sofa on my own  8) Highly recommended for the independent streak in us all!

5 days is not long......GOOD LUCK!!!!

I'll have everything crossed that all goes well and you have a steady recovery.

Brams  :)
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: thommo404 on February 24, 2013, 05:46:39 AM
Surgery tomorrow afternoon.  Have started a post op diary.
Title: Re: Lost, Depressed - need help
Post by: Brambledog on February 24, 2013, 03:38:39 PM
Wel done Thommo, I'll be there cheering you on  :)

Really really REALLY good luck for you tomorrow, hope your surgeon has had his Wheetabix in the morning lol. You've done everything you can for now, chill as much as you can today and think positive things. Rehab next, and then you'll be off and flying.

I'll be thinking of you tomorrow.

Brams  ;)