KNEEtalk

The OSTEOARTHRITIS DEPARTMENT => KNEE ARTHRITIS - Articular cartilage repair => CARTILAGE REPAIR - Stem cell procedures (eg Regenexx) => Topic started by: badkneewilltravel on July 20, 2011, 02:01:07 PM

Title: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: badkneewilltravel on July 20, 2011, 02:01:07 PM
I just had microfracture plus my own stem cells for my entire trochlea, three spots on my patella, and two spots on my femoral condoyles in Kuala Lumpur.  Go to www.KLSMC.com.  Dr. Saw has done it in over 300 patients, is getting type two collagen, and can treat bone on bone indications.  Read the paper on the website.   three centers in the US are starting this up now.   This has many advantages vs ACI and microfracture alone, including the ability to actually create joint space and handling multiple lesions.   All done through a scope.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: chandra on July 23, 2011, 04:06:07 AM
Hi...I have chondromalacia in my right knee cap. I am planning to undergo cartilage transplanatation surgery. Please keep posting ur recovery from surgery. Also can u let me know the cost of the surgery and the rehabilitation time period before you start doing ur normal activities.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Saverio on July 23, 2011, 01:27:54 PM
I couldn't find the centers in USA.  Can you list them here?
Thank You in advance.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: badkneewilltravel on July 24, 2011, 03:01:16 AM
The centers doing it in the US are: a Dr. McGuire in Anchorage, Alaska, a Dr. Broyles at the Bone and Joint Clinic in Louisiana, and Wake Forest University.   Wake is still around 6 months away I think.  Alaska just did its first case, and Broyles has done one case.  Broyles uses BMAC cells instead of PBSCs, and I think PBSCs are better. 
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: badkneewilltravel on July 24, 2011, 03:05:55 AM
All three docs at these locations spent weeks in Kuala Lumpur copying Saw's methods to the closest extent possible
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: badkneewilltravel on July 24, 2011, 03:21:26 AM
The cost in Kuala Lumpur with Dr. Saw for me was around $22,000 and included the micro drilling surgery, stem cell harvesting, 5 stem cell injections with HA, 45 days of physio, pre op appointment,  3 nights in the surgical ward, 2 mris, x-rays, pain killers, and an ice machine.  Recovery is roughly the same as microfracture or ACI.   
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: fastglycolytic on September 04, 2011, 08:32:47 PM
Dr. Saw's approach seems to be one of the best I have run across. The results posted on his site are amazing. I have many questions for you. Would it be okay if I emailed you directly, I am at [email protected]?




Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: badkneewilltravel on September 04, 2011, 10:22:43 PM
I think you typed in your email address incorrectly.   Either retype your email address or ask the question on the board.   But his approach is the best in the world I believe, and it should be getting more attention.  I'd be more than happy to help in any way I can.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: bananzaboy on October 19, 2011, 10:33:50 PM
Hi bad knee. How is your recovery going? I recently met Dr Saw in Paris. He seems very genuine in that he just wants to help people. I am very close to needing a TKR but he feels he can buy me time- I'm only 31! I am fairly confident that his procedure does work. However I have a number of considerations such as the cost and fact that I would have to stay in KL for up to 8 weeks- I have a young family. Can I ask if you live in KL or had to travel and stay there? If you had to stay, where did you find accommodation and how much did it cost? Any info would be greatly appreciated!
 
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: badkneewilltravel on November 30, 2011, 05:40:09 AM
I came in from the United States to Kuala Lumpur.  You need to stay 5 weeks to cover the surgery and five injections.  Hotel prices are inexpensive, but airfare business class was expensive.  I had two young kids too, but it was worth it.  I am five months post op and quite happy so far with my result.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: badkneewilltravel on November 30, 2011, 05:48:03 AM
I stayed at the Hilton Kuala Lumpur, which was five stars and cost around US$150 per night with breakfast.   It is close to the surgery center and they were good about helping me out. 
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: bananzaboy on December 02, 2011, 11:19:02 PM
Hi bad knee. Thanks for getting back to me. Glad to hear you are doing well. I would like to try the stem cell procedure but there are a lot of factors that mean it is not straightforward. :'(
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: bananzaboy on January 17, 2012, 10:26:14 PM
This is a link to a useful article by Dr Saw:

http://www.intechopen.com/articles/show/title/articular-cartilage-regeneration-with-stem-cells

In my most recent communication with him, he said that the final results from his trial will not be published until the end of 2012 at the earliest.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: bananzaboy on January 29, 2012, 10:22:30 PM
To SW17

I initially got in touch by emailing Dr Saw's clinic. He got back to me and then had a look at my scans. It just so happened that he was coming to my part of the world to present at a conference. I took the opportunity to go along and meet him. Try emailing via the contact email on his clinic website.

Hope this helps. Keep us posted!
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: SW71 on January 30, 2012, 10:41:18 AM
Thanks Bananzaboy, I appreciate your reply.

I will contact Dr Saw at his clinic, and also will try Dr Lee as well. I was going to try to exhaust stem cell investigations in Australia first, but this is going to take a while so I may as well kick off some other lines of investigation while I'm waiting. I'm also planning to do the initial $200 remote consultation with Regenexx. I've sent off the request form for Regenexx, so this will probably happen first.

Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Faklanman on February 12, 2012, 07:41:50 PM
I just had microfracture plus my own stem cells for my entire trochlea, three spots on my patella, and two spots on my femoral condoyles in Kuala Lumpur.  Go to www.KLSMC.com.  Dr. Saw has done it in over 300 patients, is getting type two collagen, and can treat bone on bone indications.  Read the paper on the website.   three centers in the US are starting this up now.   This has many advantages vs ACI and microfracture alone, including the ability to actually create joint space and handling multiple lesions.   All done through a scope.

so how do you fee so many months later ? this forum is fascinating there seem to be so many options for people with bad knees today  :D
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: badkneewilltravel on February 16, 2012, 04:55:24 PM
So far it is progressing quite well.  On MRI, my condyles and patella have healed, and the trochlea is healing.  I have no pain when walking and am swimming and stationary biking currently.  I am happy I did it.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: bananzaboy on February 17, 2012, 08:59:36 PM
Great news bad knee! Having no pain must be a great relief. As far as I'm aware healing after stem cell treatment can take up to 2 years to be fully complete. You must be only 9-10 months into that? Therefore you could continue to improve for another while.

If I had the money I'd be gone to get this done in the morning. However I'm just having to buy my time for the mo.

Please keep us updated. Thanks!
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: SW71 on April 03, 2012, 12:41:00 PM
Hi Badknee,

I am travelling to Asia from Australia for a holiday and will take a quick break from my holiday and travel to Malaysia for a day to see Dr Saw on 16th April. I guess I'm looking for a bit of advice - with the luxury of hindsight, are there any questions that you wished you asked Dr Saw before the procedure but didn't. I'm planning on asking him the standard questions of what are the risks, what chances of success, what position will I be in if it fails, what alternatives do I have, how long is the recovery etc, but since I don't get the chance to see Dr Saw easily I don't want to miss out on the opportunity to ask him the right questions. Any advice is greatly appreciated. BTW thanks for posting here, if it wasn't for this website and your post I doubt I ever would have found out about this procedure. Hope your recovery is progressing well.

Thanks

SW
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: garethday on April 03, 2012, 01:24:13 PM
Hello,
 
  I am a 33 year old firefighter who has recently been diagnosed with early onset osteoaryhritis in my knee.  I am terrified for my career.  I was wondering if you would be wiling to tell me more about your condition, what you have had done and how it is recovering?
 
Many thanks,
 
Gareth Day

Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: garethday on April 08, 2012, 05:33:22 AM
interested to hear more about your results with dr.Saw
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Affliction79 on April 08, 2012, 10:51:43 PM
Does anyone know if this procedure will be offered in Canada in the future?
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Mayou on April 11, 2012, 10:17:34 AM
Hi, I stumbled upon this forum while googling some other knee thing. I am currently a patient at KLSMC and have undergone kneesurgery with Dr Saw a month ago. (chondroplasty with multiple drillings and
microfractures to lateral tibial plateau and lateral femoral condyle and needling of the lateral meniscus - amongst other things). I have just had my 4th stemcell injection yesterday, 4 down, 4 to go...  If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Badkneewilltravel, how are you doing at the moment? Feel any significant improvement?

Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: WestPoint on April 11, 2012, 03:41:15 PM
Hello Mayou,

You mentioned needling of the meniscus.

What does he do to fix meniscus tears?

Any details in this treatment would be appreciated.

Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Mayou on April 11, 2012, 11:49:22 PM
The needling of the meniscus has been done to form new cartilage by means of stemcells. I have a discoid. damaged meniscus and hopefully the stemcells will fix that too. I also had a tear, which Dr Saw sutured up and he removed a cyst.

SW71 when you come to KLSMC on the 16th, why don't you come to the physioward for a chat. I'll be there from 9.00 to 13.00 (every day for 5 weeks) doing my excersises and cpm. pm me.

Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: WestPoint on April 12, 2012, 10:18:26 AM
Thank you, Mayou.

Hope things are improving. Did you have any type of articular cartilage damage, too?

When you say needling, do you mean a repeated poking of the meniscus while injecting stem cells at the same time?

What type of stem cell count is Dr Saw able to achieve?

Does he use fat or bone marrow derived cells, and does he culture them over a period of time? If so, for how many weeks?

Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: fastglycolytic on April 12, 2012, 09:17:12 PM
Hey Westpoint

Check out this site, http://www.klsmc.com/in-the-news/insights/85-articular-cartilage-regeneration-with-stem-cells.html, has lots of info on Dr. Saw and his techniques.

Bryan
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: WestPoint on April 12, 2012, 11:34:19 PM
Amazing stuff.

Thanks, Bryan...
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Mayou on April 13, 2012, 12:08:16 AM
Hi WestPoint,

The article pretty much explains it all.

To answer your questions, he uses bone marrow derived stemcelles that he harvests via a vein in your hip. About 20-40 vials, depending on wether you need 1 or 2 knees done. My stemcell count was 33. But that depends per patient. A friend of mine - also a patient - had a stemcell count of 22. The lower the count, the more time you spend harvesting.
The first stemcell injection is immediately after the harvesting, so he doens't culture them. The vials you don't need immediatly are placed in storage. I opted for 40 vials and have ad 20 vials put in storage, in case i'll need them in the future.

Needling the meniscus means that he made micro holes in my meniscus for the stemcells to start growing new, healthy, cartilage. It is done during the operaton. The first stemcell injection is a week later.

Yes I had severe articular cartilage damage on both tibia and femur and a 3 cm hole on the tibial plateau. Hopefully stemcells are growing there now... Too soon to tell since it's only been a month ago and I'm still in the middle of recovering. Did my first steps on a treadmill  yesterday and that felt good.

Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: fastglycolytic on April 13, 2012, 12:33:15 AM
Hi Mayou

I have been researching KLSM and Dr. Saw for awhile now. His approach seems to be the best. I know some surgeons in the US (where I live) are starting to perform his technique. Do you live in Asia? Can Dr. Saw do both knees at one time?

Bryan
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Mayou on April 13, 2012, 08:17:46 AM
Hi Brian,

I live in Malaysia. As far as I know, Dr Saw is THE expert when it comes to stemcell transplants and if I were you I would most definately send him an email and include your MRI and other relevant info. Ask him the question if he'll do both your knees at once. I know he does, for my neighbour in physio had both knees done at the same time, but each case is different.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: SW71 on April 13, 2012, 08:44:49 AM
Hi Mayou,

Thank you for your kind offer to talk when I am there on the 16th. I sent you a PM but I'm not sure if you got it (sorry I'm not great with technology so maybe I did something wrong?).

 I'd love to discuss with you how everything is going for you. My plane back to Hong Kong leaves at 1.30pm and my appt with Dr Saw is at 10am. For me it is best to discuss with you before I meet with Dr Saw because it might trigger a few questions that are good for me to ask him. I hope it is ok if I visit the physio ward at around 9.30? If we have trouble contacting each other before then then I'll wander around the physio ward looking for you!

Thanks again for being so kind to spend some of your time talking about your experience.

SW
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: fastglycolytic on April 13, 2012, 08:20:43 PM
Hi Mayou

I just emailed Dr. Saw to find out if he can do both of my knees at once. Can you ask your physio neighbor for me how difficult it is getting around without a good leg, so to speak. I am wondering about how one might be able to stand up and get around if both knees have been treated and one needs to be respectful of the healing areas. Is she on crutches, a walker, or using a wheelchair to get around? Will she have to stay longer than the 6 weeks because she had both knees done?

How is your physio going? I have lots of questions, any chance you would be up for a skype phone call?

Thanks,

Bryan
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Mayou on April 14, 2012, 11:02:06 AM
SW71, I got your message and I tried to PM you back, but somehow I can't, so I sent you an email instead, to the address mentioned in your profile. The message includes my real name and my cell, just in case. Anyhow I will tell the receptionist at the 8th floor that I'm expecting you. If you like, you can always come earlier than 9.30. I'll be there from 8.45 onwards.

Brian, my neighbour had both knees drilled horizontally. so not weight-bearing (vertically), which makes it easier to get around on crutches (and it heals faster than vertical driling). At first it was difficult and painfull, but she's doing fine now. One of the knees wasn't as badly damaged as the other, that probably helped also. Dr Saw will no doubt tell you more about the possibilities, since I am not an expert and don't want to tell you things that'll turn out to be untrue (or get your hopes up...)
When I return home next week, I'll be able to skype again. I'm in a hotel in KL now and internet is really slow. I hope I will be able to answer some of your questions, cause like I said before I'm not an expert and each case is different.
My physio is going well. I spent 20 mns on the treadmill today, a personal best!
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: SW71 on April 18, 2012, 12:36:49 PM
I thought some people would be interested to hear about my experience at the KLSMC even though I have not received any treatment yet...

I took a day and a half out of my holiday in Hong Kong and travelled to Kuala Lumpur (and back to HK) for a consultation with Dr Saw. I had previously corresponded by email with Dr Saw but he was unable to comment much about my xrays and mris because my bony anatomy is pretty unusual, so it required a physical consultation before he could comment about the potential for his treatment to help my condition.

I found all the staff and facilities at KLSMC to be of very high quality. I would have no hesitation in being treated there if I was able to get there easily. The nurses, physios, and ward facilities are at least as good as those available in Australia. I have 30+ years experience discussing my knees with doctors and physios as I have an unusual congenital bony defect. I am also a trained optometrist and can communicate pretty well with all the medical professionals. So I feel I am able to comment on the standard of care available with more confidence than the average punter new to the world of knee pain  :). Dr Saw in particular was clearly highly skilled and I would feel very comfortable entrusting him with the treatment of my knee.

The wonderful Mayou (who has posted here) and other patients who have received this treatment were very kind to discuss their experiences with me. Dr Saw was able to show me arthroscopic and mri pictures of actual patients who were in the ward when I was there and I was able to discuss with them how everything is going. This gave me confidence as well - yes it is nice to read the peer reviewed journals, but it's kinda hard to beat that gut feel that occurs when you are face to face with a real live person who has gone through the treatment first hand for a condition which is similar to your own - it just helps put all the science into a bit of human perspective outside of the somewhat artificial environment of a medical journal article.

When I visited there were about 15 patients there who were getting post operative rehab. Around half or maybe a bit more were from countries other than Malaysia - I could see that there are a quite a few people around the world who fit into the category of "bad knee will travel" as one person posting here has put it. The patients there that day had received treatment for various locations - patella, trochlear, MFC, LFC, tibial plateau. Dr Saw suggested to me that he is not really that concerned about the location or size of my lesions and that he is confident that he can help me, at least on the cartilage regeneration side of things. I'm just indicating here that he can treat pretty big lesions, kissing lesions, difficult to treat places. I'm not implying that if you had no cartilage left anywhere than he could treat you, you would have to ask him about that yourself. But I will say that if you've been told you need a TKR then there is a reasonable chance that Dr Saw can help.

He did say that given my anatomy that I need to manage my condition over the rest of my life once the cartilage is regenerated, as my anatomy is unable to be changed and will eventually lead to wearing out the new cartilage just like it did the old if I am stupid (eg for me going rock climbing or heavy contact sports would be pretty stupid). Eventually cycling and jogging would be ok though which is more than I am really after just right now.

Would I do it? Oh yeah, definitely. Can I do it? Well, it's kinda hard to organise logistically with the rest of the family as I am going to have to be away from Australia for at least 6 weeks. If this was available here in Australia then I would do this ASAP. Hopefully I can work the logistics out .

Anyway, I hope this helps anyone who is also considering this treatment.

SW

Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: fastglycolytic on April 24, 2012, 06:06:05 PM
Mayou

Are you home yet and how are things going? My email is [email protected] if you want to contact me directly. Let me know when you up to answering lots of questions.  Take care,  Bryan
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: bananzaboy on April 26, 2012, 09:56:46 PM
SW71- thanks for the info. I have no doubts about the professionalism of Dr Saw or his clinic at all & I believe in the procedure/technique. However, like you it comes down to a Qu of time and money. Due to the condition that I have I know this won't fix me permanently but could buy me time. I'm going to save & struggle on for a while & reassess things then. I hope you can get it all worked out.

Mayou- I too would like to know how you are doing? Did you stay in a hotel during your time at the clinic? if so can you give me the name of it & whether they gave you any discount for staying up to 6 weeks?

Many thanks both!
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Mayou on April 27, 2012, 01:53:34 PM
I am back home since a week. Very hard the first couple of days, getting back the normal rhytm, but settling in fine now. I have found a very capable physiotherapist who has experience wiht stemcell patients, so I am in good hands 3 times a week. The rest of the week, I do hydrotherapy in the morning and weight-bearing and muscle-strenghtening exercises in the evening. And like after any other operation there are good days and bad days (but mostly good  :) ) I have my second round of stemcell injections in August and another MRI in oktober. Untill then, it's exercising every day to keep the knee busy so that I will have as little scar tissue as possible.

I stayed in a basic hotel about 10 minutes away from the clinic. Very clean rooms and not expensive (bedroom with double and single bed for 90 ringgit - 22 euros) in a lively neighbourhood. It's called Desa Sri Hartamas hotel. We didn't ask for a discount, because it was already cheap. Taxifare was 8 ringgit one way.

Brian, I will email you.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: mccartjt on May 05, 2012, 05:53:14 PM
Hello Badkneewilltravel

I am curious about your recovery and procedure. How many injections of HA + your PBPC's have you now received? I know you were in Kuala Lumpur for 5-6 weeks and probably got 5-6 injections then. Have you since gone back to KLMSC for another month for additional set of injections?

Thanks for your time.

JM
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: garethday on May 07, 2012, 02:53:38 PM
What are your expectations for results from this surgery in terms of function and athletic ability, jogging, sports etc?

Gareth
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Mayou on May 28, 2012, 11:45:05 AM
I'm not sure f you are talking to me, but I'll answer it anyway... in principle, when the cartilage grows back you will be able to do anything you like again. The point is that the more you do on a more competitive or agressive level, the sooner your cartilage will wear out again. So my expectations are that I will be able to ski and cycle again, but more moderately than I did before.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: garethday on May 28, 2012, 02:55:19 PM
Mayou thanks for replying!   How is your rehab going? Many people here following your progress with high hopes!
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Mayou on June 02, 2012, 04:24:46 AM
You're welcome. I'll keep you posted on the progress. For now things are going the way they should.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Mayou on August 05, 2012, 04:34:29 PM
Progressreport:

I have new articular cartilage!! It's a thin layer, but definately there. Everything is looking good. It's been 5 months since my operation and I am virtually painfree. Happy!
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: garethday on August 05, 2012, 06:51:28 PM
great news Mayou! keep us updated with your progress!
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Andy Doha on August 08, 2012, 12:57:29 PM
Hi mayou.

I have grade 3 OA in the medial compartment of my left knee, grade 2 in my lateral compartment. Trimmed meniscus to both compartment and a partially torn ACL. Too much football over the years.

Can you tell me did youhave symptoms of OA and did the Dr advise if this was something the procedure could help with ??

I have narrowed my search down to Dr Saw and Dr Peter Verdonk in Belgium. I am based in Doha , Qatar so Malaysia is easier for me to get too.

Any information is much appreciated.

Thanks.

Andy
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Mayou on August 10, 2012, 02:44:47 PM
Hi Andy,

I suggest you send an email to dr.Saw with your questions as each case is different and I don't think I'm the right person to answer your questions.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: bananzaboy on August 10, 2012, 08:37:17 PM
Don't know much about Dr Verdonk but it looks like he specialises in meniscus problems?

In my opinion Dr Saw is the best option out there at the mo if you have time. The results from his Phase III RCT will be published within the next 6 months. Looking forward to that.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: julaihut on August 27, 2012, 08:11:42 AM
Hi guys

I have a full but small cartilage damage on left knee
If I ever choose to go with the treatment... do I need someone (family) to accompany me through the whole process?

thanks :)
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Affliction79 on October 19, 2012, 02:50:58 AM
Mayou

good to hear your rehab and recovery is going well

To all, google Kevin Stone arthritis. He is doing big things with stem cells and cartilage regeneration and his practice is out of San Francisco for all of you that live in the US. He has an 85% success rate, thats very promising.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: fastglycolytic on October 27, 2012, 04:45:47 AM
Stone's work is good if you have a pot hole in your cartilage, he can fill it with his pasting technique. For worn down surfaces it still seems as Dr. Saw is the way to go. Stone doesn't  harvest stem cells, they come as a by product of him drilling into the bone where you have the pothole and they bleed out and it is there the he puts the cartilage paste.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: bananzaboy on November 27, 2012, 08:43:30 PM
http://www.abstractsonline.com/plan/ViewAbstract.aspx?mID=2984&sKey=b41dc57e-bb15-4560-969c-68c2bfda02c3&cKey=4dcaab6e-9566-4348-8987-b55887860103&mKey=%7b342D5FB6-3E41-46BB-82B4-861286ECFB41%7d
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: bananzaboy on November 30, 2012, 08:40:12 PM
http://www.annals.edu.sg/pdf/41VolNo11Nov2012/V41N11p511.pdf
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: badkneewilltravel on January 14, 2013, 08:31:54 PM
I just wanted to give an update on my procedure with Dr. Saw.  It has been around 18 months post op now.    I feel significantly better than I did pre op.  I can walk around and generally live my life with very little pain.  I am not running or jumping, but that was not my expectation.  My condyle lesions are 100% healed and the trochlea is still improving.  My guess is it will continue to improve for up to 3 and maybe 4 years post op.   This last round of injections I had seemed to mprove my knee even more.  The range of motion in my knee has gone from 5 degrees of extension and 120 degrees of flexion to 0 degrees and 145 degrees respectively.   
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: bananzaboy on February 05, 2013, 10:38:01 PM
Hi badknee. Great to hear you are doing well. I have full faith in Dr Saw's procedure. Maybe you should change your username now to'usedtohaveabadkneenownoneedtotravel' ;).

I see Dr Saw's RCT paper is in press:

http://www.arthroscopyjournal.org/article/S0749-8063(12)01899-3/abstract
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: orthomotion on April 13, 2013, 07:02:10 PM
Hi Kneegeek,
I saw your posts and video you did about Dr. Saw.  I am very impressed with your comprehension of all that is going on in the field of stem cells, etc.  I saw Dr. Broyles this week only to find out that my mechanical axis is 52 degrees and needs to be less than 50 to be part of his stem cell, micro drilling study group.

I now have to consider whether to have an HTO procedure, and the long recovery time from it, and then the stem cells, or to go the TKR route. My age is 62, so the TKR route is not a bad one, just not as satisfying to me, as I was hoping to grow new Hyaline cartilage.

I will talk to my local surgeon about the TKR soon.

Any insights you could offer would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Mayou on April 22, 2013, 01:29:42 PM
Update:

I had an appointment with Dr Saw and an MRI last week at KLSMC and I have grown a nice thick layer of cartilage! I still get booster stemcell shots every now and then, so it will hopefully continue growing. My meniscus is also in better shape than before, thanks to the needling. I'm very happy with the results (and so is Dr Saw!).
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: SEFGY67 on April 27, 2013, 08:49:54 PM
Update:

I had an appointment with Dr Saw and an MRI last week at KLSMC and I have grown a nice thick layer of cartilage!

Hi,

Was your cartilsge damage in a weight bearing area and is your cartilage now full thickness?

Regards
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Mayou on April 28, 2013, 03:45:27 PM
Yes the damage was in a weight bearing area (tibial plateau and femur, see previous posts) and my cartilage is not yet at it's full thickness which will be in another 5 months or so.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: SEFGY67 on April 29, 2013, 10:16:02 PM
Sounds like it worked out very well for you - congrats
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: kittatt on June 03, 2013, 06:17:39 PM
Hello.

Two months ago I noticed pain both of my knees and even after physical therapy, the crepitus and popping has gotten worse.

I've always been very active, going for long walks, hiking, swimming..etc.

My X-rays look fine according to my doctors, but I haven't gotten an MRI. After hearing about cartilage regeneration I came across Dr. Saw's clinic and am very interested.

I contacted him for some information, but am wondering what others here think. I'm 25 years old and even though my symptoms have only started, I am afraid my knees will just continue to get worse because they grind whenever I am walking and pop when I bend them.

In your opinions you think I would benefit from cartilage regeneration? I don't know how bad my cartilage is, but I thought if I took care of it early (if possible!) I could prevent further degeneration.

This whole thing scares me so much! I never knew this could happen to knees, especially at 25.

 I am new to all of this, so sorry if I sound really naive. This whole stem cell thing sounds too good to be true. Why aren't more people trying it out yet?
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: NickCat11 on June 04, 2013, 01:40:54 AM
I think you need to get an MRI first before you start jumping to any conclusions.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: mccartjt on August 14, 2013, 12:44:06 AM
Mayou

I am curious as to how you are now doing?

Thanks

JM
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: cappelhans on September 23, 2013, 07:53:20 PM
Would also love to hear an update from Mayou on his KLSMC procedure. Please give us the latest news when you have the chance...!

Thanks,
C


Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Mayou on October 06, 2013, 01:26:23 PM
I'm good  :)

Stil doing my exercises about 6 times a week, but nowadays it starts to look more and more like a regular workout again. My knee is doing well and my leg is getting stronger. I even started to jog (1 min jogging - 5 mins walking etc) and I'm going to ski again this winter!
I was at KLSMC last week for my final stemcell injection (I hope...) and will have another MRI in april, 2 years post-op.

Keep you posted...

(and I'm a her btw  ;) )
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: cragsi on October 07, 2014, 09:31:35 AM
 mccartjt

i am thinking of traveling to see dr saw for his stem cell treatment for multiple lessons and was wondering if you heard back from Brian Smoluch on how he was doing?
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Mayou on November 18, 2014, 02:07:28 PM
Janosh, I cannot reply to your pm, not allowed to apparently, so I'll do it here. Yes my cartilage has rebuild itself completely. There is hardly any difference between the new and the old cartilage. I'm virtually painfree, the odd painflash when I go down the stairs every now and then, but that's it. I am 2.5 years post-op now and very happy with the results (and Dr Saw too!)

Good luck!
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: KO on January 18, 2015, 11:56:13 PM
Mayou - How long post op did you continue to have stem cell injections?  I did mine in Anchorage and had 5 post-op and 3 more at 6 months, but I think that's all we are planning to do.  It looks like you did yours much longer.  I am taking it slow and am about 8 months post op now - so far my doctor is also very happy with the regrowth and I am very happy with the pain reduction!!!
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: mccartjt on February 10, 2015, 02:28:59 AM
I just had microfracture plus my own stem cells for my entire trochlea, three spots on my patella, and two spots on my femoral condoyles in Kuala Lumpur.  Go to www.KLSMC.com.  Dr. Saw has done it in over 300 patients, is getting type two collagen, and can treat bone on bone indications.  Read the paper on the website.   three centers in the US are starting this up now.   This has many advantages vs ACI and microfracture alone, including the ability to actually create joint space and handling multiple lesions.   All done through a scope.

Badkneewilltravel

Hope you are keeping well, any chance of an update on your knees condition?? Thanks

JM
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: newkneecartilage on February 22, 2015, 05:07:43 PM
Hey everyone, I had this procedure 6.5 months ago with Dr. Broyles in the US.  I had a large spot on my patella and spots on my medial femur, trochliar groove, and lateral plateau.  So far I've had very good results and I am very happy with how my knee is feeling.  I still have another set of stem cell injections to get at 12 months post op so I expect that my knee can only get better.  Dr. Broyles website is:

http://cartilageregenerationcenter.com/ 

Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: psny on February 23, 2015, 07:47:40 PM
Hey everyone, I had this procedure 6.5 months ago with Dr. Broyles in the US.  I had a large spot on my patella and spots on my medial femur, trochliar groove, and lateral plateau.  So far I've had very good results and I am very happy with how my knee is feeling.  I still have another set of stem cell injections to get at 12 months post op so I expect that my knee can only get better.  Dr. Broyles website is:

http://cartilageregenerationcenter.com/

What sort of activities are you allowed to do currently at 6.5 months? Do you have any persistent pain still, or are you pain free? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: newkneecartilage on February 25, 2015, 02:45:57 AM
sorry, psny.  I meant to quote you.  See below.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: newkneecartilage on February 26, 2015, 01:09:23 AM
What sort of activities are you allowed to do currently at 6.5 months? Do you have any persistent pain still, or are you pain free? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
[/quote]

at 6 months you are allowed to start jogging on a treadmill for very short periods of time, balance/proprioception, and strengthening, and going up full height stairs.  Sport specific exercises and full release to activities isn't until about 12 months postop.  I haven't been able to jog or do any high end activities only because i have arthritis on my other knee and it dictates what I can do.  I can go up stairs now with the surgical knee and I rarely have pain, and when I do it's only when my knee is more bent and loaded.  I can say that I'm so happy with my results that I plan on doing the other knee at the end of this year.  Previously, I had a microfracture that only made the knee worse so this surgery saved my life since I couldn't even walk before without constant pain.  Dr. Broyles is wonderful surgeon and has done previous surgeries on my hips and my husbands hip.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: tlkkkk on August 30, 2015, 02:50:54 AM
Can anyone advise on the cost for Dr Saws treatment?

Thanks
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: vickster on August 30, 2015, 09:48:32 AM
I should think it varies from case to case and you'd be best to get in touch directly with your notes and imaging

http://klsmc.com/en/faq/#accordiontab-faq6
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: tampaknee on August 31, 2015, 02:26:05 PM
I was quoted by one of Dr Saws previous patients that the total cost for treatment  was around $20,000 (US).  I have heard really good things about the procedure from this individual.  Let us know if you get quoted any prices once he reviews your records. 
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: tlkkkk on September 09, 2015, 11:39:11 PM
I was quoted 60000 - 70000 RM, which is around 13k-16k dollars, 9-10k pounds, but also said need a review by Dr Saw himself before an exact figure was put on it, what damage did you friend have and how is their knee now?
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: Mayou on April 23, 2017, 06:00:34 AM
.
Title: Re: Microfracture plus stem cells for multiple, large cartilage lesions
Post by: dex on October 13, 2017, 08:58:39 PM
I am back home since a week. Very hard the first couple of days, getting back the normal rhytm, but settling in fine now. I have found a very capable physiotherapist who has experience wiht stemcell patients, so I am in good hands 3 times a week. The rest of the week, I do hydrotherapy in the morning and weight-bearing and muscle-strenghtening exercises in the evening. And like after any other operation there are good days and bad days (but mostly good  :) ) I have my second round of stemcell injections in August and another MRI in oktober. Untill then, it's exercising every day to keep the knee busy so that I will have as little scar tissue as possible.

I stayed in a basic hotel about 10 minutes away from the clinic. Very clean rooms and not expensive (bedroom with double and single bed for 90 ringgit - 22 euros) in a lively neighbourhood. It's called Desa Sri Hartamas hotel. We didn't ask for a discount, because it was already cheap. Taxifare was 8 ringgit one way.

Brian, I will email you.

Hi Mayou,

When you were looking for a phisiotherapist who had experience with stemcell patients, how did you find him/her? Was by reference of another patient? Thank you!