DIARIES => Post op diaries (>300 posts) => Topic started by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 19, 2010, 02:57:04 AM

Title: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 19, 2010, 02:57:04 AM
So here I am after a long 8 months with just a few hours to go before I get my shiny new ACL (hamstring).

It's 02:42 and I have to leave for hospital at 06:30 but having fallen asleep downstairs watching a triathlon (all those knees!!) I'm now in bed and wide awake.

This time the period of compromised mobility is different..I've gained an insight into the range of outcomes from reading posts on KG and feel somewhat more prepared mentally than previously. I've had a chance to plan domestic arrangements and stock up the kitchen cupboards (late night Asda shopping including bags of ICE!), so it all seems terribly civilised!

Lottie and Wicki - cat or gibbon? (quite fancy the option of nine lives and being able to land on my feet no matter how far I drop)! Paper pants or commando?

I'm being hosted by Bournemouth Hospital - they have a brand new Day Case Unit (opened Feb2010) - aimed at streamlining the experience and preserving the dignity of patient (paper pants then  ;D ).... my TKD instructor was there two weeks ago for an ankle op and says it's amazingly wel equipped and silky smooth on organisation.

Despite being Day Case I'm due to stay in overnight so will tickle the keys from my morphine steeped haze on Thursday.


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on May 19, 2010, 05:04:11 AM
Cosmic - GOOD LUCK! If I have the time difference right, you may even be up and about and heading to the hospital now.

I hope all goes smoothly and well, and the next time you wake up you'll be on your way to a knee that's better and stronger than before.

Will be sending good and healing thoughts your way tomorrow.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on May 19, 2010, 06:34:00 PM
Just had a text photo of a lovely looking leg and message from Cosmic - she is reconstructed, femoral blocked and through the other side! Waiting for her dinner and brace to be fitted (assuming only the latter will be on her leg....)

Speedy recovery Cosmic!!! No gibbon or cat parts were apparently used in the making of the new knee....... ;D :o

I think it was paper pants all the way too. Classy bird is Cosmic  ;)

Lottie x :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on May 19, 2010, 10:30:33 PM
Cosmic congrats on the brand new acl, hope all went well, and look forward to every detail of the whole day. I need to know what lies ahead for me so all details gratefully recieved, unless they are really gross then I dont want to know  :P
I hope you get a good nights drug induced sleep tonight and the family survive a whole night without you.
Take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: jamiec123 on May 20, 2010, 10:38:26 AM
Cosmic, congrats on the ACL :)

I hope the op went smoothly and i hope the next few days are relatively pain free!

Looking forward to hearing how it all went and how you progress over the coming weeks, i want to compare it with my LARS!!

Jay x
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 20, 2010, 08:01:47 PM
Home - finally!! Even the nurses cheered when I was discharged  ;D

OK Tez - just for you - a blow by blow account - paper pants and all.

Day 0 - Operation Day

Arrived at hospital 07:15 and was seen by pre-op nurse, anaesthetist and OS. Sat with a lovely lady called Emma (I think all Emma's must be lovely!)who was also having a left knee ACLr (skiing accident in Austria in January - one for you Snowy :-) ). We we OK until we were given information on the femoral block, which said the block was done whilst you were sedated but awake. That tipped us both over the edge, so united in our ACL-deficiency we hugged!!

...and the paper pants deserve a mention... they don't have a front and back so don't try to find it! They are hipper grippers - rolling them into low slung hipsters just gives you a front botty bulge so don't try to lessen the impact they make by getting fashionista with them LoL!

Scheduled to start op at 08:30 - walked to anaesthetic room to be greeted by three gents in green! "Hopped" onto the table, had a line put into the back of my hand and Chief-Green-Chappy started fiddling with ultrasound in my groin area (thank heavens for those paper pants!) for the femoral block. I didn't realise but Green Chappy number 2 was already infusing sedation - so as I craned to look at the ultrasound (much to the surprise of Groin-fiddling-Green-Chap) and tried to apologise for "interfering but I was just curious" I remember watching the ceiling flowing through the doors, a mask coming over my face and then....

"She really does take a long time to come round doesn't she"!!

I'm rubbish with anaesthetics. 40 minutes later and I still couldn't speak or move. Woke in some significant discomfort - mainly down the back of my thigh into my knee and at the top of my calf.
The rest of the afternoon is a blur - I was taken onto a day-case ward at 12:30 , took my phone out to text peeps and the world was spinning - my blood pressure dropped drastically... stayed on oxygen for four hours drifting in and out. The leg felt sore but OK if I could keep it still, until it needed to move.
If you've ever had cramp in your hamstring down the back of your thigh and into your calf - the sort of cramp that makes you want to pass out and throw up - my leg feels like it's in the aftermath of a mammoth cramp session!

I had to stay in overnight (which I'd guessed as i've always reacted badly to anaesthetics), missed my x-ray, dinner, and most importantly PT and crutches.... which meant I was bed bound until the PT came today.

How long could I last before I needed a pee  :-[ ?... amazing what worries you most in these situations! I did try to limit my drinking (not advisable) but by 10pm my 5:30am cappuccino was making itself known. A couple of ladies had tried the bedpan but failed... so mine was filled to rapturous applause. Dignity takes on another meaning in hospital! The nurses were going to find me a "well done" sticker  ;D .

Day 2

Woke at 5am to the lady n the next bed snoring. My Hug-Buddy ACLr Emma was in the bed opposite  - her femoral block hadn't worked, so she was on morphine.
My femoral block was (is?) great - I could certainly feel (or as it were - not feel) the difference between my left and right leg....much numbness - it's wearing off slowly.

I'm on a regime of paracetamol, morphine and diclofenic.

Finally got to see the PT at 1pm. .... no brace, crutches PWB and trying to get as normal a gait, basic exercises. Extension seems to be OK, not at lockout but swelling and pain are getting in the way. Resting with heel on a cushion and Lottie's loaned cryo-cuff which feel really good.

I can do SLRs and have been doing loads of ankle pumps and rotations. That is better than after my scope in January when I couldn't lift it off the bed at all.

The wounds are fine - the big crepe bandage came off before I came home and has been covered with showerproof dressings. Some bruising at the graft harvest site (the cat and gibbon were incompatible) and a bit bloody. I used some wet wipes (don't leave home without them) to remove the iodine and big black arrow (I no longer look like I've been tangoed or have a Simon Cowell suntan).

I was still waiting for an x-ray - they finally wheeled me down at 3:30! Apparently there had been a note on my x-ray request saying not to call me down before 3pm as I was still unwell! The nurses were really apologetic, I was actually glad of the time to rest - there was nothing to do but relax and chill, just what the doctor ordered  :D .

Much like before I'm finding limitations as I try to do"Stuff" and it's a case of gently trying things and knowing it'll change day to day.

If I can do it anyone can!

Thanks for your support guys 'n' gals - looking forward to catching up with your latest news.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on May 20, 2010, 08:23:03 PM
I appreciate the details most important in my education of all thing knee related ;)
As for the fetching paper pants I was introduced to them when I had my scope in Jan and you describe them perfectly
Also the seeing how long you can last before you have to pee I am an expert as during a previous surgery [non knee related]
I lasted from approx 10 in the morning just before surgery untill 8am next day felt like something was going to burst but movement meant pain and pain not good :P the threat of a catherter did the trick lol
Really please your through the sugery and feeling so up beat look forward to your next update, look after yourself or better still get the kids to look after you for a change
Take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 21, 2010, 06:32:07 AM
A lovely night's rest at home in my own bed - woke once at about 3am, and then at just before 6am which is usual rising time for school (helped by light mornings and the loud happy antics of the bird population outside!

Slept with the cry-cuff on  ... after so many months I think I must be used to sleeping in the same position so woke exactly how I went to sleep..... I guess not moving much in bed helps....and of course the pain relief (which I am being very diligent about!).

Just done some quad sets - straightening and pushing knee into bed - hammy feels bruised, bone bruising is tender where I guess it's been aggravated again, but all in all I'm surprised at how little pain is coming from the knee joint itself  ;D
Plucking up the courage to try some heel slides ..... 

Friday guys ... weekend's nearly here - Tez, what's everyone up to today, I'm losing track....?...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 21, 2010, 06:34:59 AM
...I forgot to say - I was tucked up last night by my Mum  :-*

I'm 41 years old and it was still a lovely feeling :-))) ....
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on May 21, 2010, 08:16:46 AM
Cosmic ooooooh a full night's sleep i'm so jelous ,but You deserve it so I really dont grudge you the luxuary :D
 Might be wrong but dont think there is much occuring today, Snowy is still waiting to hear about her surgery date so unless that happens today I think there aint nothing going on, but if anyone knows of something I dont, please share lol.
Do you really think the cryo-cuff is something worth investing in for post surgery? not sure if I can justify the expense!!!!!!
I really like this not too much pain thing keep it coming.
Have a good restfull day Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 21, 2010, 08:44:43 AM
I'm very lucky as Lottiefox won the cryo-cuff on eBay, then postponed her surgery so lent it to me. It is very therapeutic - very easy to refresh/keep cold and the compression helps BUT I do think it is a lot of money (at full price) for what it is ... like you I was toying with the idea of getting one but couldn't really justify the expense.

Keep your eye on eBay, you may get a bargain! Alternatively I've read people using latex gloves filled with ice and held in place with a tubi-grip...

Heel slides/flexion - just got to about 80o (with a bit of support) - swelling and general discomfort prevent further movement just yet. Trying to be realistic in relaying the pain in posts - it hurts, but no more than the original injury or the scope in January to release the lock, and the pain meds keep it in check.
No pain no gain eh ;-) ...

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on May 21, 2010, 08:50:23 AM
Woohooo Cosmic that was a VERY coherent post last night about your experience!! Is it wrong to say I'd be more scared about the femoral block than the op itself?! Sounds like it all passed in a blur though, literally.  :P  That wasn't me in the next bed, although all Emmas are genetically pre programmed to knacker our knees up.  ;)

I'm delighted that the Cryo-Cuff is getting good usage, Bob is happy for Stumps to be road testing it. Tez, I got mine on Ebay, it was quite a lot cheaper than new and had been used about 3 times from the look of it. As long as you give it a really good clean and sterilise I am sure there is no problem with using a 2nd hand one (unless it is dead manky obviously!!!).

Sounds like the quads are firing well, all that pre-hab has paid off and I suspect that you'll get ROM back faster than after the evil scope of the devil earlier this year. The knee has all of its bits now! perhaps now is the time to train the dog to be one of those "aid" dogs to fetch what you need?!

Friday - reckon you're going to be up for the seaside and cake expedition in a weeks time with no problems!! (I might be hobbling along on a cripped foot with a well behaved knee at the moment!!! Sand and paddling please?!!)

Sending you hugs and thoughts across the cyber waves..

Lotttie xx

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 21, 2010, 12:38:53 PM
Lottie - I lost count of the times I dozed off and had to rewrite sections coz they made no sense at all.... glad it seemed coherent in the end!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Clarus on May 21, 2010, 01:47:17 PM
Hi Cosmic, brilliant post op post :D

Glad you're home safe and sound, hope your family are 'mucking in' as required - I know it made a huge difference to me that everyone was willing to help (albeit occasionally with a gentle reminder in some cases ;) )

How is it going today?
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: jamiec123 on May 21, 2010, 02:12:39 PM
Tez - In my personal opinion, the cryo cuff is worth every penny.  I bought mine brand new and i dont know what i wouldve done without it!  i still use it now, 8 weeks on.  I would completely recommend anyone to buy one, i know they are circa £100 but to me it was the best £100 i had ever spent!!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 21, 2010, 05:24:59 PM
Jay -

.... och you're right about the cuff - ... I've lived in it today and it feels soooo good when you refresh the filling ...  aaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!

Mum stayed last night and was amazed at the tranquility of the morning routine here - my son gets up at 6:30 and leaves the house for 7:30 with very little input from me - I'm just around in case (usually doing packed lunch, and reminding him of al the things he already knows!). Daughter gets up after and just needs some encouragement to get out of bed and keep moving... she cycles to school.

Breakfast in bed - a gentle day with a couple of close friends (Mum's been good at manning the door - the day after my last op I had visitors from 09:00 to 23:00 and could have cried with tiredness) and am now sitting in the back garden in the evening sun with my leg up AND the cryocuff on :-).

This afternoon I had a visit from the local councillor about an issue with the skate park behind (he did call to check first!) - he's in shirt and tie, I'm in PJs (although they do look like T shirt and 3/4 shorts) -  made me chuckle.

Next visitors just arrived... ma- and pa-in-law!


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on May 21, 2010, 11:20:31 PM
Just catching up on your post-op glad that all went smoothly for you! I confess that I'm far more freaked about the general anaesthetic than any other aspect of the surgery right now (even the drilling through the bones) because I've never had one, and my family has a history of reacting really badly to them. I'm still hoping my OS will offer me a spinal tap option so I don't have to be knocked out, but stupidly I forgot to ask him about that on Wednesday.

Good words of advice on the cryocuff - I'm definitely investing in one of those. Am curious to hear more about the femoral block - what do they actually do for that? Fiddling in the groin area sounds slightly disturbing. ;)

Very happy to hear you're out in the back garden already. :) How does the leg feel when you're moving around? How much weight are you putting on it?

Hope all continues to go well. :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on May 22, 2010, 03:26:48 AM
Femoral block and fiddling with the groin area ??? I must have blocked that from my mind when I read it the first time!! selective blindness I think we'll call it, but Snowy mentioned it again and this time it penetrated into the brain so now I need details too.
Sounds lovely your Mum being there to sort out the kids and take care of you, enjoy being looked after for a while cos soon enough you will be the look after'er and not the look after'ee or something like that.
Snowy the general anaesthetic is not too bad at all I have had a fair few and have never had a major problem but if there is a history of sickness after one I think they can give you something to control that, the only problem I have is that it wipes me out for a coupe of days afterwords, saying that I did have another wee problem when I had my scope in Jan, the anaethsatis had a probem
finding a vein in the back of my hand [hands were freezing] and ended up damaging a nerve which resulted in numbness in the back of my hand, the morale of that story is make sure your hands are nice and warm before they start.
I think you lot are talking me into the cryo cuff or something similar, if it helps post op I can always sell it on e.bay after I'm finished with it, I will have a look around and see what I can find.
Take care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 22, 2010, 10:50:19 AM
The general anaesthetic is fine Snowy, a very bizarre feeling and before you know it you are awake and it's all over. For me being awake during the procedure and a spinal would be far more daunting!!

I went online yesterday to look for videos on femoral block on youtube - they used and ultrasound to identify the nerves in the groin that innervate the area they want to deaden, then use a small electric probe to stimulate the nerve and associated muscles to identify that it is the right one - then inject around the nerve to deaden the area directly. I wouldn't recommend you watch unless you have a strong constitution!

It was very funny as I remember really wanting to see the ultrasound screen, and was convinced that the anaesthetist was talking to me (not the trainee) about what he was doing. He was really surprised when he found me leaning my head on his shoulder to peer over to look at what he was doing! I remember trying to say "I don't mean to intrude but I'm just curious to see" as i realised he wasn't talking to me.... but I'm sure that's not what came out! Next thing I know is the ceiling is turning to liquid and flowing through the doors and a mask is coming over my face.... and that's it. I didn't even realise they'd started giving me the anaesthetic!

As for groin fiddling - you are past caring tbh!!! ...and that's where the paper pants come into their own. Just make sure you are neat and tidy before you go in if you know what I mean!  :P

As for the anaesthetic aftermath, my blood pressure tends to drop significantly and I spend a long time drifting in and out of semi-consciousness. It's not a bad feeling and I don't get sick like some people (my Mum does!), just disconcerting. I'm an extremely sensitive case apparently. Like Tez it takes a couple of days to shake off the feeling. All the anaesthetists I've had have been very sympathetic, very careful and informative... and we've had quite a laugh which is good for putting you at ease.

I'm trying to write realistically about the pain - but I don't want to put anyone off!!!
The bone drilling worried me too as it sounds so extreme - I can't really feel it - I thought it would feel like broken bones. The majority of pain/discomfort is from behind the knee and thigh - the hamstring...any nudge, twitch or tweak is butt clenchingly sore. The wound sites are somehow numb and sore at the same time, the graft site is still weeping slightly.
Weight bearing through the knee itself isn't painful unlike after the initial accident and scope in January. It feels very unstable. There's no way I could walk without assistance.
Movement is still restricted by swelling and bruising which is slowly emerging. I think the bruising is going to be in the pattern of the cryocuff where it has been applying pressure  :D. extension still looking good and flexion slow and tentative to 80o.

I can tell when the meds are wearing off - I woke again at 3am and had my morphine, and then was feeling it again by 6am, so I'm just being unusually diligent and keeping on top of them. I usually hate taking painkillers, but can see this regime is really important.

I hope this is helping.... I hope I never have to go through this again - but wouldn't hesitate if I had to!!

If there's anything I'm missing that you want to know please ask!!!

Sunny shiny Saturday. Time to get a stripy suntan  ;D

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Mike Hough on May 22, 2010, 01:06:45 PM

As others have said, the general anaesthetic is fine. I was worried before mine (it was my first one), but all that happens is you breathe in some oxygen through a mask and there are a few seconds of everything going blurry - then you wake up in the recovery room. I knew nothing about the femoral block or the drilling. The pain was all around areas of bruising rather than near the bones.

Good luck!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 23, 2010, 09:45:08 AM
Day 4 Post-Op

The bruising is really starting to surface - at least it looks impressive for all the pain and hassle!! Bruising is mainly around the harvest site, down the front of the shin and in the back of the knee.... and OMG it's sooooo ITCHY under the dressings!!!!

All around the harvest site is still numb... hard to resist prodding it continually just to see if there's any change (I must be bored!).

Missed the 3am and 7am morphine today... resting pain is minimal, hamstrings and harvest site are nerve janglingly twangy if I over-do the flexion or knock my foot when walking. The extension seems fine - sat on the floor for ages last night with my legs extended... :-)

I can shuffle around holding onto things for support, but if I attempt any weight-bearing on a straight-ish leg the knee is freakishly wobbly - I have boingy cartoon noises going on in my head as it slinkys about!

Sat in the garden in the sunshine... not such a bad time of year to have an ACLr :-)

Hope you are all having a knee-free weekend!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Raymond76 on May 23, 2010, 07:51:48 PM
Surprised that you have so much bruising. I guess it will vary person to person. I had no bruising and the same reconstruction.

As for the pain, I agree with you. The pains are all from the hamstring harvest site. In general all the pain and discomfort is from muscles and not the knee itself. You just have to be careful you don't do any movement that flexes the hamstring muscle much.

Keep it going!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on May 23, 2010, 10:21:57 PM
Cosmic thanks for the update you have very discriptive way of explaining things that I appreciate sooooo much you make me laugh but I also get what you mean [if that makes sense] :P
Good for you not needing the mophine what a hero ;D
If your anything like me any bruising is kinda satisfying its like you mark of honour or something like that,
your now prolly saying "what is she on" but I know what I mean :-[
Sounds like things are going smoothley for you I hope it continues without ay problems.  what about physio when does that start?
Take care Tez

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on May 24, 2010, 02:52:41 AM
Bruises are like a temporary version of your surgery scars - once when I was bemoaning the rather large scar I have on my right hand (fell through a window on a dairy farm in Cornwall at 3am in a thunderstorm) a friend told me that scars are just tattoos with better stories, and that's how I've always thought of them since. :)

Glad to hear that all is still going well. Have you been taking any other painkiller apart from the morphine? Pain medication was something else I forgot to ask my OS about - I meant to check to see what they'd be prescribing. I don't really mind taking anti-inflammatories, but I'm not a big fan of anything that makes me feel stupid - I still have about two-thirds of the T3s I was prescribed after my ACL tear. However, I'm quite prepared to check my natural antipathy at the door and take whatever they give me after surgery!

Interesting that the harvest site is more problematic than its new location. :) It does make me wish that allografts and/or synthetic ligaments could offer as consistently good results as autografts - somehow it seems so hard on the poor leg to have to heal up a graft site as well as the knee itself. Does anyone who's a bit further along know how long it typically takes the graft site to settle down?

Keep enjoying that sunshine, Cosmic! :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Raymond76 on May 24, 2010, 03:51:31 AM
For some people, they have issues with their hamstring even after a full year. Others say they have no problems at all. It varies so much. Just hope you are one of the lucky ones and don't have to many problems.

Even though I don't have thick legs but thinner legs (actually they are to thin in contrast to my upper body). My legs are pretty strong though, from years of hockey and soccer.  BUT I have always had tight hamstrings. I could never touch my toes.  I have a feeling that if I don't do some major hamstring stretches and weight training, I will have issues in the future.

To summarize, you need to know your body. Your strengths and weaknesses. If your calves, ankles, or hamstring need work, then give it 100% effort and work them. This is not a 1 time deal, its for life. You will need to create a new lifestyle. And if you haven't already, consider this ACL injury as a sign that your body is telling you that you need to.

Example. I was 33 when I tore my ACL in a soccer match. For years before, I was chasing down and keeping up with 20 something speedsters. Until one day my body said enough of that.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on May 24, 2010, 06:05:21 AM
I don't have any particular hamstring issues, but I do know they're a lot weaker than my quads (which are in pretty good shape from skiing). I've been working really hard on hamstring strengthening as part of my prehab, which feels a bit like fattening up an unsuspecting pig for the slaughter. ;)

I've struggled with chronic knee problems (severe PFS and mild arthritis) for years punctuated by a variety of acute injuries, so I don't take much about my leg function for granted. I've made a lot of compromises - giving up running and martial arts, for example - to save my knees for skiing, which is my big obsession. My real concern with this injury is making sure that I can get back on the slopes at the end of it. I'm far less afraid of the hard work of prehab and rehab than I am of not being able to do the things I love, which I guess is a pretty good starting point.

I'm 33 too, and blew my knee crash-landing a jump at Whistler. It wasn't in any way a typical ACL-busting fall, and my PT and doctor both think the culprit was actually a kickboxing injury I suffered four years before. My knee was never the same after that injury - I had persistent instability and it remained much weaker than the other side - and the consensus now is that I suffered a partial ACL tear that went undiagnosed. The fall I had this time was a straight backwards tumble without the twist that usually characterizes an ACL tear on skis, but it was enough to finish off what was left of the ligament.

I agree completely that this is a lifetime deal. That's why I'm so concerned about getting it right. From an objective point of view, it's actually an interesting opportunity to re-evaluate what's really important. I've been pretty career-driven the last few years, and if you'd asked me a few months ago how I would respond to a major injury my main concern would have been getting back to work as fast as possible. Now it's happened, I'm far more concerned about making sure I give my knee the attention it needs to give it the best chance of healing. I'm actually asking for two months off work, which would have been inconceivable to me before this injury. Now, my only worry is that it won't be approved!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Raymond76 on May 24, 2010, 03:51:24 PM
Life is more important than work...

I always thought if I would have a bad knee injury it would be something like you had, an awkward fall or a big collision where your knee gets banged hard with someone. Never would I have thought it would happen during a light jog. For me it happened during an indoor soccer game. The ball was kicked  past the goalie, I was jogging to get it, stepped around the goalie...POP, down I went. No one touched me
It could happen anytime anywhere I guess. So enjoy life as it can change in an second.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 24, 2010, 09:10:15 PM
To summarize, you need to know your body. Your strengths and weaknesses. If your calves, ankles, or hamstring need work, then give it 100% effort and work them. This is not a 1 time deal, its for life. You will need to create a new lifestyle. And if you haven't already, consider this ACL injury as a sign that your body is telling you that you need to.

Great words of wisdom, Raymond. TKD has been my passion for 10 years - I was a late starter but was completely committed (as always- I can't half do something!). Some of my fellow students and Instructors are finding it hard that I am so stoical about my future in MA, they feel I am giving up. It's not that - if I have to move on to pastures new then I will, and without regret. The first thing my GP said when he saw me post injury was "your body's been trying to tell you to slow down for years, it's finally made you listen".

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 24, 2010, 10:30:44 PM
Here - hopefully is a pic of my knee of many colours :-).

(http:///Users/Sooze/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Modified/2010/24 May 2010/DSC00807.jpg)

Had a call from Poole Hospital PT today with an appointment for tomorrow.... can't see the gem of a PT I saw previously but they have booked me in with a senior PT  :).

Daughter got off safely at 07:30 for her school activity week in Wales - lots of help packing - I think we had everything on the kit list ticked    :P... all in all the timing is pretty cool. She's no trouble but it just means there is one less person to worry about here for a few days.

Father wheeled me out to a country pub for lunch - 20 steps to the car, a short very slow potter into the pub garden to sit in the shade of a tree on a bench with my foot up, and the reverse to get home. Overtaken by old lady on a rolator going back to the car LoL.

No cryocuff until 8pm - . Knee, shin and foot are hot and tight with swelling, bruising still emerging - it's like a colourful civilisation is slowly taking over my leg (been watching too much Dr Who).

Brother and family (wife & 3 youngsters) visited and stayed for (and cooked  ;D!) tea - I have to admit I had just fallen asleep on my bed when they arrived. Sitting in a pub garden eating good food was surprisingly hard work (or maybe it is the 6am mornings and uneasy nights). Sister-in-law gave me a foot and calf massage - OMG that was so good.

I managed one day without morphine 'til the evening (was that yesterday?), but did restart as pain was increasing. I've missed the doses in the middle of the night - but keep up during the day. Aside from that I am coming to the end of 75mg diclofan every 12hours.... paracetomol and ibuprofen.

I'm not usually one for taking painkillers but am sticking advice of keeping ahead of the pain (it's just that sometimes until you stop taking the drugs you don't know how much pain there is!).

Anybody sunburnt?

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on May 25, 2010, 05:06:09 AM
Hey Cosmic
Bruising is pretty spectacular as seen on F.B, I wonder as there is so much bruising your physio will get you to do much in the way of excersises as I would think that could make it worse, good luck anyway it must feel like moving onto the next step of recovery ;)
Sounds like your starting to get out and about a bit more aint it surprising how much a wee jaunt out totally wipes you out, I guess its a matter of taking things slow and easy to start with.
How long did your doc suggest the use of morphine? I know what you mean about not knowing what the pain is like untill you stop the meds, but its still early days for you and with that amount of bruising I would think you will need something strong for a while yet.
Raymond I didnt rupture my acl doing anything dramatic either mine was not even sport related, I blame this predicament I have been in for the last 2 years on killer heels and the inability to walk down stairs in said killer heels  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Take care Tez     
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 25, 2010, 07:37:31 PM
ACLr +6days

It seems I have successfully managed to NOT load the photo here - but as Tez says the Facebook one loaded fine (i know it should be so easy - any hints gratefully received).

PT today was fine - not at full extension (she didn't let on my degrees) and a full 95o passive flexion YAY! She'd seen a young fit (in both senses LoL) chap before me who had his ACLr on the same day - he's a physio at the hopsital too - and I had 15o more flexion then he did..not that I'm comparing at all...nooooo... and I didn't feel at all pleased with myself coz I just know that pride comes before a fall    ;D  ;D

The bruising is severe but not unusual... apparently it relates to the degree of difficulty they have harvesting the graft - I think they used a sledgehammer and a baseball bat to get mine!!.

I need to find someone lovely to come and massage my leg every day with Arnica cream (failing that I'll do it myself  :-\) .

Because of my stump-stuck extension history it seems I am going to have a small battle ensuring my quads are working properly to keep my leg extended as I step - so that's what I'm working on this week. I have a little "eek" feeling at the moment as I'm getting pain behind the knee cap which is in the same place as the lesion caused by the injury - it may just be that it's protesting a bit so I'm putting that piece of information in a trunk and locking it away for now.

I managed to walk slooooowly unaided (if you call gripping vice-like on to the banister unaided!) along the landing to the bathroom which seemed like a cool move except I was desperate for a pee, and Blue-the-Barmy-Birman decided it was a good time to demonstrate his undying love by weaving between my feet!

Moral of the story 1) stick with crutches doh!
                         2) don't wait til desperate for a pee
                         3) feed cat first!!!

PT says I'm OK to drive  :o (For some obscure reason both cars are automatic!!) once I'm off the morphine (one dose this morning as I was scared of the PT!). That was a bit of a surprise - a lovely one!

We're aiming for running at 3 months, badminton at 6months. It all seems like a pipe dream at the moment, something to work towards but I'm not hanging my hat on it!

The PT also talked about the 6-10 week period, when it has been shown that the graft is populated with blood vessels and nerves. It is believed that this is when the graft is at it's weakest although apparently there is no scientific evidence to prove it. To err on the side of caution they don't prescribe any new physio before 10 weeks - and only recommend swimming beyond that point. I guess it's a good time to learn - I swim like a brick.

Keep rubbing those joints

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on May 25, 2010, 08:46:21 PM

The PT sounds like excellent news - good passive flexion and the extension will is good you're aware of the need to get the quads working because of the stumpy stuck history. Might take some hard work - but when have you ever shied away from that one?!!

Get the Arnica cream ready for the end of the week!!

Re the kneecap lesion - could well not actually be the kneecap lesion creating the eeek sensation, more the fact the muscles won't be holding that kneecap properly and allowing it to move, hence any slight uneveness behind the kneecap will be magnified a million times. I know from experience that as soon as the muscles and things around the kneecap get lazy/stressed/upset then any changes feel way worse. Box that information and work those quads!!

OK to drive - shall we go get a funky soft top car?!! (One that I can stick my wonky foot and crap knee out of?)

Hugs to Stumpy and her technicolour dream-shin


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on May 25, 2010, 09:21:56 PM
Cosmic Whose a clever girl you seem to be doing sooooo well, not at all surprised you are doing better than any fit guy, you have girl power proppeling you forward into a world where 2 working knees are the norm and this whole episode is a distant memory.
surprised your cleared to drive I was told after my scope not to drive at all for at least 2 weeks and thought after the aclr it would be a lot longer so that makes me happy ;D cos I hate being tied to the house.
Keep up the good work cos your my insperation [no pressure or anything ;D ;D ;D]
Lottie I can see you both in a nice soft top sports car with a leg each hanging out if you got enough speed up it would save you from icing for a while. 8)
take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 25, 2010, 10:03:31 PM
OMG how hard can it be to do an SLR???

Left leg.....concentrate and lift...hmmmm...lift.....oh....

ok Right leg..and lift ..yay!

Left leg..... and, yes you, left leg..... LIFT.....LIFT... selective hearing huh?.... squeeze and
???  Ah  >:(

Does pulling on one's trouser leg count???  ;) ....

Watch this space for next week's exiting installment of ..."The Search for a LK SLR!!!!"
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 26, 2010, 07:33:25 PM
Bah humbug - we all know it's going to happen..after the initial relief at finally getting through the op - that big lumpy dive into the PITY PIT. :-[

So feeling brave after PT I went to bed with no meds and woke up in considerable pain from the bruising and the hamstrings. Had that "Ok I've had enough of this game now, want to move on" feeling and curled up in a ball (mentally of course as I can't bend my knee enough to REALLY curl into a ball LoL) for a bit of wallowing.
About an hour of that and I was bored - did some quads physio and put a dvd on the laptop. The dog snuggled with me  :).

Pain seems to be improve if I keep moving, if I stay in one position for too long my soft tissues seize.

Just to complete my day my teenage son got an earful for not pulling his weight - he looked at me as if I was talking a foreign language. He has an astounding ability to leave a trail of destruction behind him (the consolation is that he'd never make an effective criminal!) ...  I think it was the waxy cotton bud left on the dining table that broke the camels back!

I find I have quite a dilemma on how to constructively report the downs as I don't want to put you guys off any impending surgery!... on the other hand If I only post the good I'm afraid you might think my recovery is super special! Today is the day of balance!

The good news is that I managed to carry a tray 15 steps into the garden for lunch  :D  and the roses are out  ;D

Happy healing KG friends

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on May 26, 2010, 08:07:55 PM
I now feel like a complete heel  :( :( :( :( so so so sorry you feel bad about sharing the bad days as well as the good PLEASE dont worry about freaking out us ladies in waiting, we are all big girls and can take all your highs and lows and celebrate with you on the highs, and comiserate with you on the lows, If your having a bad day then get your butt on here and vent to your wee hearts content, we will all be here with a sympathetic shoulder and a daft remark to help make you feel better.
As for the kids sorry your on your own there saying that I'm pretty sure my 2 could give your lot a very good run at being the most untidy, cheekey, messy, unorganised, selfish, and ungrateful kids there is, their also beautiful, special, lovely clever, bundles of fun ;D     
Take care and hope you feel better Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 26, 2010, 10:18:37 PM
Hi Tez - don't feel like a heel - I just know that pre-op I got spooked by stuff that I really didn't think would spook me!!

Anyway - having rehabbed twice before I was kinda waiting for the first blow-out.. so it was no surprise just a minor inconvenience and shows that all is progrssing normally.

... and as for my son he's a loving, humorous, gifted, honest and caring young man... just a typical teenager who is currently holding a friend's rubber duck hostage and posting the photos on Facebook LoL.

Anyway I have to be ok for Lottiefox's visit on Friday.....ready to hang my leg out of the convertible on the way to eat cake at the beach and take in the views at the local nudist colony at the aptly named Studland beach  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Thanks Tez - you're always there for us xxxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on May 26, 2010, 10:33:51 PM
Nudist colony!!! no one mentioned a nudist colony I distincly remember cake and coffee and arnica cream but had I been aware of a NUDIST COLONY I would have been on the next train down  :o
Hope your feeling a bit better and have fun at studland ;D ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 26, 2010, 10:36:16 PM
It's one of the National Trust sites that is truly worth visiting! ;)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Clarus on May 26, 2010, 11:49:23 PM
Hey Cosmic, just read the last few posts, sounds like earlier today was a bit of a bummer :-\
But, the great thing about here is you can grouch when you need to, someone will listen - then when someone else has a bad day you can hear them.

Know just what you mean about that odd 'down day' post op - 'pity pit' is such an accurate description.

And as for kids not being helpful...... but, they are all beautiful, healthy, kind souls......

One of mine held their friend's 'Ted' hostage for a while in a similar manner.

Chin up, chest out and best hobble forwards ;)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on May 27, 2010, 12:55:05 AM
Ditto, ditto, ditto! One of the most valuable things about this site is the support network it provides on the days that don't go so well. Plus if your whole rehab was nothing but sunshine, smiles and nudists I'm sure I'd find myself wondering what I'd done wrong on my first bad day. ;)

I'm sorry that today was one of the bad ones, but think of it this way - you had a full week when things felt like they were going pretty well. One bad day out of seven is pretty darn good, considering what a major procedure you went through just last week.

Just think of the satisfaction when you finally make that SLR. :)

K x
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 27, 2010, 10:31:18 PM
Ok -so if every Bah Humbug day is followed by a day like today then I'll have a few more please!

The swelling is subsiding considerably, and the bruising is improving with the massage and arnica oil. I took the bull by the horns and changed the dressings - the small wounds look fine, but the graft one is a bit like a car crash - with two open wounds still bloody - and a string (the subcutaneous suture I guess) sticking out at the ends of the wound - quite comic really!

I'm usually really squeamish about stuff like that, but was more interested to see what was happening.

Passive flexion is improving as the swelling subsides - I can pull on my trouser leg and get my knee to well beyond 90o. I've pottered around the house without crutches and found that I am actually better when moving frequently, otherwise everything seizes up...AND I drove to drop my son at his gig practice in town (only a mile each way but it was fine :-)). Still need to use crutches to encourage proper extension but happy to do that when walking outside.

Son proved how caring he really is - he plays in a band with my friend, Jane's son. When Jane finished work at 8pm Cam asked if she would come round and take me back to theirs (where they practice) as he didn't want me left at home on my own.  Priceless. ......and his room is tidy!!!

Snowy - such fab news on your date...

Time for another early night. Sleep well all.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on May 28, 2010, 03:30:53 AM
That sounds like a really positive day. :) I'm glad to hear that walking is coming on so well, and that's great news on the driving. I'm the driver in our family, so getting back on the road is going to be fairly important. It's funny - I much prefer driving a stick and in the past have complained considerably that automatics are far more common here, but now I am *so* thankful that I have an automatic! I swapped cars with a friend a couple of weeks after my initial injury as she needed my truck to move house, and working the clutch felt like doing leg presses in the gym with heavy weights. Not fun.

Perhaps you should give the photos another try to show off your wounds.  ;D There are some truly gory pictures over on the KG Facebook group!

The reality of my date is still sinking in. I broke the news to my coworkers this afternoon. Thankfully I have a super-supportive manager; she went through knee surgery herself in September, so she's been really sympathetic. I have to go to the doctor's tomorrow to get the forms signed for my medical leave. I should post a thread to find out what time off people are typically taking; I'm thinking 6 to 8 weeks to give me a really good solid block of time to focus on my recovery. It feels very strange to be contemplating such a long time off work; the longest I've had off sick previously was 5 days following a motorbike accident in 2003.

Hope you're sleeping well and will have another great day tomorrow! These post-op threads are such an inspiration. I hope I do half as well when my time comes. :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on May 28, 2010, 08:18:51 AM
Cosmic great news that your day was a better one so pleased and driving yipeeee!!! Snowy's right you need to try to get your multi colourd photos on here and share your stunning bruising.
Your son sounds so sweet I think its harder for boys to show how they feel My son has been pretty good especially when I get home from work and am having a wee moan about how sore my knee is or something, he will go and take the washing in or set the table or something that he wouldn't have thought about without being asked before, he's even been taking the dog out for a walk which has always been a bug bear with us.
Snowy funny you posted about time off cos I just asked Clarus that question all my clients are asking when and for how lone, their all trying to work in their colours etc so they dont need done while i'm off, My o.s told me he gives the advice of a minimum of 6 weeks but more often than not a bit longer and as I stand all day he thought a lot longer for me but not to sure how long a lot longer is 2 weeks? 4 weeks? who knows.
Well work is calling so take care all Tez 
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: jamiec123 on May 28, 2010, 09:42:44 AM
Hi Cosmic,

Really pleased you had a better day!!  In the early stages of my recovery i felt like id have a couple of good days and then a bad day where i felt my leg was never going to get better!  The best thing i can recommend is when your feeling rubbish about it and regret having it done, just think to your ultimate goal, why did you have it done?  what do you want to be able to do again that you couldnt do without having the op?  For me, football was a huge incentive, hobbling over to watch my team play without me was such a big motivation to get myself going again!!

Here's to many more good days :)

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 28, 2010, 11:34:10 AM
Thanks Snowy Jay and Tez!!

Day 9

Pretty much ditched the crutches about the house and can go up and down stairs by stepping foot to foot. I know I must be feeling better as I've been cleaning again (just pottering).

Lottiefox is due here in an hour or so.... chosen a pub for lunch which sits in the Purbeck Hills with views to Corfe Castle and beyond. Then to the sandy beaches of Studland (crutches essential) and across the chain ferry to Sandbanks for ice cream/coffee/cake (not necessarily all, but probably, and not in any particular order  ;D ).

Daughter returns from activities week to Wales today - so will have lots to catch up on. Seems as if she's just left, but my week seems to have gone slowly - time is such an anathema!

Can anyone advise on the photos - I've pressed the insert image button and copied the picture between the code (select picture cmd c, click onto post cmd v) but it just comes up with an image of a box with a ? in it. I'm usually pretty fast with working out computers - perhaps it the retarded mental capacity relating to surgery LoL.

Time for some PT - tried the lying on my front with my legs over the edge of the bed. How can gravity pull so hard  :o ???

Bank holiday and the rain is lined up I see. Hope you can make the most of whatever you have planned.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on May 28, 2010, 06:44:59 PM
Ah - the photos - the "Insert image" button never worked for me either.

When you're typing your reply, click on the "Additional options" link under the message box. It gives you the option to attach a file, and you can just upload your photo here. You may have to resize it if it's a big pic, as there's a size limit.

Hope you and Lottie have a wonderful day out. :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 28, 2010, 10:12:40 PM
Thanks Clarus and Snowy for the photo advice...

Hopefully there are two pics added to this post - the first one is my elephant leg post scope in January - trim of lateral parrot beak meniscal tear and debridement of ACL stump to release locked knee, the other is 5 days post ACLr (monday this week).....
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on May 28, 2010, 10:41:38 PM
Most attractive and impressive :o :o
You know of course now I am going to be majorly dissapointed if I dont also have some serious bruising like that
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on May 29, 2010, 10:50:31 AM
We had a great day out - plenty of laughter, lunch, cake, coffee, choc, gossip, paddling and sight seeing. The Cosmic knee is doing fantastically well, nothing phases Cosmic and she just gets on with it. My crutch training was entertaining, I definitely need more practice before anything gets done to my knee or foot!

Thanks for a great day Cosmic, I enjoyed it so much and it was therapy for Bob-knee and the onions too.  ;D

Sorry for not doing the arnica massage, we just ran ouf of time didn't we...but that SLR was working well! Yay!

Right, I shall attempt to attach a pic of rehab - Cosmic and Lottie style....

Lottie xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Clarus on May 29, 2010, 11:32:39 AM
Well ladies - sounds like you had the most wonderful day out  :D
What an excellent rehab regime...

Glad you managed to get the photo problem sorted ;)

Sounds like you're getting on incredibly well despite the hugely impressive bruising,it feels so nice to be able to manage around the house without crutches, and you've got a wet weekend to catch up with all your daughter's news.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on May 29, 2010, 01:00:22 PM
Sounds excellent!

Lottiefox - if I can use crutches, then anyone can  ;D  OK, that was PWB...NWB could be a completely different matter  :o
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on May 29, 2010, 06:55:57 PM
Crutches on sand - now I'm really impressed! However did you make it down to the water without them sinking in?
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on May 29, 2010, 08:05:42 PM
Snowy - the sand was quite flat, not too bumpy but I was still impressed! Cosmic did have me carry her bag etc so she could focus on her crutch placement! We were even going to attempt to navigate out to a little sandbank but that involved heavy debris on the sea floor and the risk of being stranded! Coastguard alert!!!

In fact every time she got into the passenger seat of my car on our expedition and dealt with her crutches and bag, I'd stand by the door and ask "Are you all in? Ok? Mind your fingers!" before shuting the door - just like I do with my dear lovely little 79 year old Mum!!!  ;D :P

She also managed to select an 18th century inn for lunch with a sign up saying beware of the uneven floors and steps - she was way better than me as I gimped my way down anything steep!  8)

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on May 29, 2010, 08:21:07 PM
Hi Cosmic I hope you dont mind me hijacking you thread fo a wee question for our Lottie ;) How did your appointment with you foot doc go the other night any ideas how to sort out those onions of yours? I hope it went well and you got some answeres.

Looks like you 2 had a fantastic day on Friday, they say laughter is the best medicine and I agree wholeheartedly which means you 2 must be feeling soooooo much better today.
Take care Tez

ps 2nd time to post this so here's hopeing 
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on May 30, 2010, 10:15:03 AM
Hi Tez

Thanks for asking! The foot doc prodded the feets and took X-rays. Left onion (the one with badder knee above it) is relatively simple. Onion is not too bad and would be corrected by a Scarf osteotomy (bone breakage, in heel WB trainer type sandal for 5 weeks, walking on heel part and with weight as tolerated as soon as feel able...etc etc). Right onion and toe is in worse state - X-ray showed moderate to severe arthritis as well as joint onion. Three options - simple scope on toe to debride and remove bone spurs and see how it goes (up and on feet same day, PT to get toe wiggling again), open debridement and osteotomy to correct onion or open debridement and osteotomy with the option to fuse the big toe if he finds the damage is too severe to be cleaned up...then foot is straight, but toe is fused with slight flexion so you can rock as you walk. I am assured fusing is the option chosen for active and young people - only restrictions are high heels and sprint starts - which I don't do anyway with the dodgy knees! Have never worn heels so that isn't a concern for me - being able to still be a fitness freak and instructor is critical though, as is proper walking gait, hiking, etc etc.

My logical brain says try the debride scope first and see what happens. Can always move forwards. Can't go back from a fusion....but the fusion and relaignment is the one that gets rid of the arthritis pain....but its 6 weeks with very limited WB in a special sandal shoe thingy and 6 months to full activity.

Good job the knees have settled at the moment - I might need a wheelchair!!

Thanks for asking - Cosmic sorry for the hijack

xxx ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 30, 2010, 11:30:31 AM
No problem being hijacked  :-*

Day urmm what is it? .... 11....  !!

The only time I need crutches around the house now is when I get up after sitting for a period - everything seizes, weight bearing and flexibility is hard for a few minutes. Negotiating stairs carefully without, even managed to ascend "normal stepping" last night - just hung on to the banister for dear life.

Lottie and I logicised the SLR on her visit (a quick session of PT on the lounge floor LoL). I have real problems post op doing a sitting SLR. Now when you think about it your leg is already at 90o, so to lift it above that is pretty special (I can kick at head height normally, but not post op!!), and actually engages your hip muscles as much as your quads. If you do an SLR lying down it mimics more realistically your movement when walking, and seems to isolate the quads. So that's what I've been doing, and after a couple of days of waking my quads lying down I can now heave my leg into a sitting SLR!!

The other useful lesson I've learnt is in trying to prevent the burning calf pain I was getting on standing - especially in the morning after a long period of being prone. I started doing some pt and did an arnica massage before getting out of bed - it does seem to help.

Son is off long-boarding to Sandbanks, daughter is sleeping off the week's activities. Barmy Blue the Birman resisted the urge to mimic my coffee spoon this morning and unusually is draped across my lap - necessitating single handed typing!!

Snowy - sounds like you had an entertaining evening - I hope you don't suffer for it in the morning!

Clarus - I hope the Dan grading goes well - the adrenaline is almost tangible isn't it !!!

I guess I'll just have to sit here 'til the cat decides to move!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on May 30, 2010, 01:11:08 PM
Cosmic> day 11 already seems like only 10 days ago you had your surgery :) glad things are going well how about the bruising has that setled down a bit? Think I get what you mean about the SLR and the quads etc, I am acually surprising myself that I am starting to understand and seperate all the different muscle groups now, pre this board I had not a clue of such things
and its all thanks to you lovely knee geeks so thanks loads :D
Lottie> Sorry about all the foot problems you are having sound like you have a hard decision to make I think its sounds like weighing up the being inactive for 6 months but ending up at the end of that time being pain free or only being inactive for only 6 weeks with no guarentee that it will really help, but if it does your back in action and getting on with your life, poor you having to decide, dont you think its much better for the doc to say you deffo need somthing rather than giving you a choice  :-\
Take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on May 30, 2010, 02:52:18 PM
Cosmic - sitting SLR - yeahaaa woohooo you got there!!  ;D 8)  Son is longboarding to Sandbanks???  :o  Blimey - to have teenage joints!!

Tez - indeed, I wish just one surgeon would tell me what the best option was for my feet or knee! The foot doc made me laugh - he told me had rotator cuff tears in both shoulders. Not severe but enough to impinge on activity at time (OMG hope he doesn't accidentally chop off my foot) but was avoiding surgery at all costs!! How encouraging!

There is the simple scope option on the bad big toe - back in action on day of scope, walk immediately, foot will swell but basically fast return to everything but if the damage is severe inside then it might not help much. I am erring towards this as a first option. It might help the ROM on upwards flexion and reduce the bone spur pain. I can always then proceed to a fusion - you can't go back after that though and having been at the gym this morning I do a LOT of actions that require some degree of toe bend, and I need to be able to demonstrate these to perhaps a nice old scope and debride might be the toe's first adventure.

Cosmic I am in Portsmouth Wednesday assessing a client - will be done by about 1 I far to you? You around? Cake!! Paddling!!!

Hugs all and hope the knees are happy this sunny day

xx ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 30, 2010, 06:24:02 PM
Off to the emergency clinic at Poole hospital - nagging worry about intensifying calf pain when all else is improving. It's been around for a few days but now the bruising is settling (I know have a green and yellow leg!) it's more obvious. Sensible to get it checked to (hopefully) rule out DVT.

A bit more of a concern than usual as I didn't get the DVT tummy jab before leaving hospital, and it's my second tourniquet surgery on the same leg in 4 months.

I've been putting off calling as I HATE making a fuss, but even my daughter says I don't make enough fuss when I'm in pain, so I'm taking her very sensible and mature advice (for a 12 year old!) and getting it checked.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on May 30, 2010, 07:39:59 PM
Oh, no. :( I hope it turns out to be something minor - but best to get it checked out to be sure. Definitely worth making a fuss if something doesn't feel right.

Lottie, that's a tough choice to have to you say there's no going back from a fusion, so probably best not to go that route unless you're sure there's no other way.

We did have a fun night last night - hosted a 50th birthday party for a good friend. I'm only paying for it this morning with the bad knee, which is super cranky and sore (I think from too much standing - we ran out of chairs for all the guests). I'm going back on my anti-inflammatory diet for the month before surgery, so that was a good way to bow out with lots of very unhealthy food and drink.  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on May 30, 2010, 08:42:02 PM
cosmic I really hope there is nothing too sinister going on with you leg but very glad you have made the decsision to go get it checked out better safe than sorry I'm sending healing thoughts and and loads of good wishes :)
Snowy what is your anti inflamatory diet?
Sounds like you had a brill time last night I love a good party ;D
Lottie sound like you've made up your mind to go for the scope first, I guess it makes sense to try that first the see how it goes from there  Oh what a wise woman you are :o...
Cosmic please let us know about how you get on at the hospital..
Take care Tez 
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on May 30, 2010, 11:03:48 PM
The anti-inflammatory diet was recommended by a fellow skier when I was struggling with really bad swelling and stiffness following the injury. It's fairly straightforward - basically you try and avoid processed foods, fats, sugars, and red meat, and eat a lot of fish, nuts, and vegetables. Garlic, chilli and turmeric are all really good anti-inflammatory seasonings, which is great as they're three of my favourites! Alcohol isn't encouraged, nor is caffeine (Surprisingly I found that of the two, I missed my coffee far more!)

I stuck to the diet pretty closely for about six weeks and I think it was a good thing to do; in addition to the anti-inflammatory properties, it also kept me eating really healthily. I've lapsed the last few weeks, but with surgery approaching it's time to get back on it.

Hope Cosmic is doing okay...sending good thoughts toward the ER!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on May 30, 2010, 11:22:44 PM

I've been so busy wallowing in self pity this evening I have only just read this - hope you're OK, going to text you now. I am SURE it is nothing but it is definitely sensible to get it checked out. That is what the ER is there for (betcha there aren't any George Clooney types at Poole though  ::) :P)

Please let us know how you're doing,

hugs hugs hugs and more hugs (and choc)

Lottie xxx

PS that anti-inflam diet looks a good idea - Snowy you too have PFS/OA stuff going on don't you, I reckon that diet might help my falres etc and set a good baseline. Thanks!!  ;D  I would also miss coffee and tea way more than alcohol...

And thanks for the kind words re the onions and fusion - fusion sounds so FINAL!! How would I do a push up or plank too?!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on May 30, 2010, 11:24:18 PM
I texted Cosmic and she is still at the hospital waiting for her blood results, but they do think it is DVT and are starting her on anti-coagulants tonight.  She'll have a scan next week.  I don't know if she is staying in, but she is currently keeping herself awake with hospital coffee!

Big hug to her  :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on May 30, 2010, 11:32:30 PM
Cosmic BIG BIG HUGS TO YOU HOPE YOU FEEL BETTER SOON :( and watch those good looking doctors have you seen what they get up to on scrubs  :)
Take care  ((((((((((hugs)))))))))) ((((((((((hugs)))))))))) just thought you might need an extra one
Lottie ((((((((((hugs)))))))))) you feel better soon too you two are helping me through all this knee stuff couldnt do it without you
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on May 31, 2010, 12:14:06 AM
Oh, poor Cosmic! Incredibly bad luck to have to deal with the DVT on top of the ACLr rehab.

Sending a large hug from Vancouver, and I really hope that this doesn't interfere with your general recovery.

Vickster, thank you for keeping us posted!

Lottie - I have really persistent PFS problems in both knees; it's causing me a lot of grief right now because of the amount of leg exercises I'm doing as part of my prehab. The OA is fairly mild, but still not good to have it at all at my age. Poor old knees, besieged from every direction - I figure that anything I can do that has a chance of helping is worthwhile!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 31, 2010, 01:07:25 AM
AWWWW you guys - thanks for all the e-hugs and healing vibes :-))) xxxxxxxx

I called the out of hours GP service (how does the people's NHS managed to get away with an 0845 number for out of hours surgery?????  >:( ) and they booked me in at the emergency GP clinic at Poole hosp. Saw a lovely old Indian lady doctor whose flies were undone and who insisted on telling me about her £60 Clarks shoes before saying that they didn't have the facilities to "process me" and I needed to go to A&E.
After further discussion she decided it would be better to send me to the assessment ward as the wait would be significantly less. we waited an hour and twenty minutes whilst they tried to get the ward to answer the phone - in the end the clinic receptionist walked to the ward to let them know that I was being admitted. We then had to wait for a nurse to take us there (not allowed to walk the 50m unaccompanied)..... after 30 minutes more the receptionist walked us there!

Calf and ankle  are swollen and taut. There is a line of tenderness running down the back of the bulk of my calf muscle which at best is a dull persistent ache and at worst is a tight pulsing throb.

Old fashioned syringe to take blood sample - three vials, an hour+ wait and the results show that D-dimer - a protein relating to breakdown of clots but can also been present following recent surgery or tissue trauma ... is significantly raised.

Because I have factors pre-disposing me to DVT (two tourniquet knee surgeries in 4 months, period of inactivity following surgery and not DVT drugs previously then they've started me straight away on heparin injections and shown me how to do it. Another box to tick on my "I've done it" list1!!
Because it's a bank holiday the ultrasound dept isn't open til Tues - they'll cll me for a scan to diagnose properly.

At least I know I'm covered.
Oh yes Lottie - I've trumped your Studland catch, I was chatted up by the ward alcoholic! The nurses kept having to lure him back to the TV area to give me a break LoL!

Lottie - hope you're feeling better - I daren't tell you how much of that 500g SLAB of Carellisimo chocolate remains  :o  ;D

Tez - so sorry to hear about your Mum. We lost my Step-Mum last July after 3.5years of hard desperate battle against bone cancer. She too went from a graceful demure lady to a shadow of her former self. I remember posting that I was caught between wishing it was over and wishing it would never end. We were with her when she died.

Wicki - my Dad says it's OK to look at the roses in other people's gardens as long as you don't pick them!

Snowy - three dishwasher loads - that was some do! Glad you didn't suffer from the alcohol too much - make sure you covet your knee for a bit!

Time to for my head to hit the pillow.

Thank you all again for your vibes - xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Clarus on May 31, 2010, 08:30:23 AM

Didn't get back until past 9.30 last night after a 6am start, was sooo tired I didn't touch my laptop - I miss a day on the boards and people go off and do all sorts......
Glad you're home okay but sorry to hear it may be a dvt - at least you went to have it checked out and  have started treatment for it.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on May 31, 2010, 03:56:22 PM
Oh, the joys of out-of-hours hospital treatment! Glad you were able to escape the ward alcoholic.

I really hope it turns out not to be DVT, but at least if it is you've caught it early and gotten right on the treatment. Were you given any specific advice on things to do to lessen the risk post-surgery? It seems like you've been pretty mobile from the get-go, which I think is the most important thing.

Hope you're feeling better this morning.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on May 31, 2010, 05:33:59 PM
Cosmic how are you feeling today hope the calf is feeling a bit better and your not too freaked out about this whole thing :)
at least if you have the scan tomorrow it will let you know if its a DVT or not, the fact that they have started you on the heprin  must put your mind at rest untill you know for certain good luck with the scan when the time comes.
Sorry about your Step Mum it horrid to watch someone you love disapearing before your eyes. I just had a bad day yesterday when I went to see Mum she just seems to get frailer every week. I also have the guilt of putting her in a nursing home but it became impossible for me to  care for her at home anymore and even though I know I made the right decision sometimes it just dosent sit right with me...
Sorry for the down turn in the conversation time to cheer up :)
I hope everyone is well and having a good day take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on May 31, 2010, 09:53:22 PM
Day 12

Spent a happy four hours today sitting in the sun on a grassy bank in a Borough park in Dorchester contracting various muscles and watching the main set (local youth bands) at the arts festival  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Tez - sometimes it comes to a point where there is no decision to make. Five days before Jilly died she was moved to a superb hospice - that was a hard moment as she knew she wouldn't be coming out. She had always said she wanted to die at home, but my Dad could no longer cope with her medical needs. Once there she said how much she liked the hospice as it was more like a hotel than a hospital, and it gave us all time to focus on her emotional needs. The night she died my Dad had committed to play in a concert, and Ele was playing in a music festival. Dad arrived at her bedside in his Tux and dickie bow, and I arrived with Ele's winning trophy.
Her biggest concern had always been that she didn't want to be a burden to us, I'm sure your Mum would feel the same. I really don't think she could ask for a more caring and devoted daughter.

So the cursed calf - can't get comfy - aches, pounds, tight, swollen, hot - and one pink foot :-/. Limited on painkillers because of heparin so just taking paracetamol which doesn't seem to touch it BUT at least I know I'm covered so the mental platitude is worth it!!

Should hear tomorrow about the ultrasound. Wondering how I'm going to fit it into my children's hectic half term social diary  ;)!!!

Tony - Good luck at the OS tomorrow!....and hope the beauty of quadratics shone through tonight!

Clarus - glad the knee withstood the Dan grading - that was a long emotionally charged day!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on May 31, 2010, 11:11:49 PM
That sounds like a much happier day, although I'm sorry to hear that the calf is still so sore. I hope they're able to give you a definite answer on the DVT sooner rather than later.

End of life choices are so hard. We went through something similar with my grandfather while I was still in the UK; he started showing signs of Alzheimer's, and was basically abandoned by his second wife who ran off to live with her daughter when she realised he wasn't going to get better. My parents tried having him to live with them, but it rapidly reached the point where it wasn't safe for him; he never fully understood where his wife went and would wander off at night trying to find her. My mum was desperate not to put him in a home, but it soon became obvious that he needed more care than they could provide. They were able to find a good home for him and he settled much better there; he thought he was back in the Navy and on a ship, so he wasn't constantly wondering where his wife was and searching for her. We were able to visit him regularly and I think his last few years were as good as they could have been under the circumstances, though I know my mum still wishes he hadn't had to go into care.

Cosmic, your story is so touching - how lucky that your stepmum had her family around her at the end. Tez, I don't think there's really any way to come to terms with choices you wish you hadn't had to make; what you have to hold onto is that she's your mum, you're clearly a very devoted daughter, and any decision you made would be taken with care and love and only her best interests in mind.

Tony, best of luck tonight - and tomorrow! I hope you get good news from the OS; maybe we'll get a July hat-trick between you, me and Tez. :)

A small confession: I failed completely on the anti-inflammatory diet today. I blame the coworker who left a box of Timbits on the table right outside my office. There are many things I can resist, but Timbits are not one of them. Actually, it looks like there may be one or two left...

Update: *nom*
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 01, 2010, 10:12:32 AM
Cosmic - glad the day was restful but sorry that the darned cslf is still giving you grief. Hoping that the Ultrasound gets done PRONTO and gives some answers.  ;D

End of life choices are indeed horrible. It hits me that your parents etc bring you up and care for you, and you follow the circle of life and look after them when they struggle. Roles get reversed and it is heartbreaking. I watched my Dad get more and more unlike himself as he deteriorated - he went from a sharp, funny if slightly abrasive character to a bully, perpetually angry with life and other people and withdrawn from the world. There were flashes of the old dad that would shine through, but we had reached the stage where my Mum couldn't cope and we were considering the next step when he had a massive stroke and contracted pneumonia. I am convinced this is the route he would have probably chosen had he been able to anyway. My Mum (bless her) is now 7 years post being widowed, 79 and active as a 20 year old, (awesome knee function!!) and has a 75 year old boyfriend (Fit Fred) who cycles 200 miles a week and treats her like a lady. She even bought a new king sized bed this year!!!  :o ::)

Tez she will always be your Mum and she made you who you are. She'll know that deep down and you'll never forget that either. Mums never leave you, even when they aren't there in physical presence.

Snowy - wha on earth are Timbits?!!  ??? :-[

Hugs to all, hope you have good knee days

xx :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 01, 2010, 04:10:05 PM
Timbits are the holes from Tim Horton's donuts:

It's funny because I'm absolutely not a junk food person, but I have a real weakness for Timmy's donuts (especially the Maple Dip). Timbits are deadly because they're bite size, so you just have one or two and before you know it you've eaten about six donuts' worth of them.

Tim Horton's is a Canadian chain, and part of the classic Canadian experience - if you ever come here, make sure you try it!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 01, 2010, 06:46:22 PM
Hey all,

I had a text from Cosmic whilst I was out and about this afternoon just saying "No DVT!!!"

I assume this means great news!! I am sure she'll be along later to update us, is probably paddling/swimming the channel/running round the block/kicking ass/baking a cake/walking the dog (simultaneously...) ;D


Lottie xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 01, 2010, 08:30:20 PM
Lottie thanks for passing on the news from Cosmic thats fantastic news about the dvt was somewhat worried about the lady so verry pleased ;D ;D ;D
I appreciate everyone sharing there experiences about their parents etc means alot to know I'm not the only one wondering if I have done the right thing for them
Good for your Mum having her toy boy it sounds like she's having a great old time to herself.
Snowy are your Tim Hortons similar to crispy creams if so I am a massive fan and would actually like some right now ;)
Cosmic I hope the calf pain is a bit better and fantastic news you are dvt free
Take care All Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 01, 2010, 09:20:12 PM
That's great news - I'm glad she won't have to deal with a DVT complicating the rehab.

Tim Horton's are like Krispy Kreme...but better.  ;D Wish there was a way I could ship you some to try. (We had another box of TimBits at our morning staff meeting today! I wanted to lose weight before surgery, not put more on...)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 01, 2010, 10:20:46 PM
Hi Guys -

Thanks Lottie for passing on the "No DVT" message! Very relieved it isn't but discombobulated as to what it might be!!

So the days events....
I received a call just after 9am to say that there was a cancellation in ultrasound for 11:45....could I make it for 11:30?
I think I was embarrassingly enthusiastic! I planned in plenty of time for the usual 15 minute drive to Poole - aiming to leave at 10:45 allowing 45 minutes -  it was a wet half term day and parking at the hospital is a nightmare (there is no other choice for an ambulantly challenged personage!)....10 minutes before I was about to leave an old friend knocked on the door - culminating in me leaving at 11:10!!

Well, everyone and their dog and their dog's auntie was leaving Purbeck on the one road that serves the area. I took a three mile detour - cut out the traffic (love being a local!) got stuck behind someone doing 3 miles an hour tot he top of the car park (you always have to hoof it to the top floor, no point even considering trying to find a space below).... had a 1,000m sprinting hobble along the covered walkway to the hospital and arrived with 2 minutes to spare. I was escorted from the ward to ultrasound where, after waiting for an hour an twenty minutes, someone finally told me that they were running a little behind schedule LoL.

The scan was straightforward - the gel was warmed hmmmmmmm  ;D  - the squeezing to get decent pictures was a little uncomfortable  :-\.

So, the great news is I can stop the jabs and get some decent painkillers to try to control the calf pain. (If you do need to self inject ice the area before and after - it stops the bruising!!).

The DVT clinic were really lovely - commended me for seeking their assistance and strongly asserted that if it gets worse or I need further clarification to feel at ease to go back to them. The nurse there thinks the swelling, heat and throbbing pain may be a result of bruising extreme trauma during surgery...

Back to PT on Friday, looking for some help as calf is restricting weight bearing and ROM. ......

After ultrasound I met Ele and her friend who had caught the train into Poole, followed hot on their heels by Cameron. Indulged in a celebratory Shakeaway (A hot "Tim" if I remember rightly - banana and coffee topped with mini Oreos!) and a trip to the skate shop to buy a longboard (hey - a girls gota have something to look forward to!).... for Ele!  Fish and chips for tea from a shop that names it's catch of the day trawler and the variety of potatoes, dropped Cam at band and then home ...... aaaaaahhhhhhh.

Another visit from a friend - 30minutes sit to type to you lovely lot and now off to collect Cam from a band practice.

...and to have a chance to check out the hat-trick that is Snowy, Tez and Tony  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 01, 2010, 10:40:43 PM
Hurrah!! Glad you're home!! Looks like the arnica massage might be on call tomorrow then?!!  :P ;D 

Ele has a longboard - how coooooooooooooool!! I'd love a go but fear for the two bum knees and arthritic onion....

Will call you when I'm done in Portsmouth (my client has a "violent history" apparently and I am being chaperoned by his lawyer, who is, apparently - tasty! Like the catch of the day but minus the chips perhaps?  :D)

Assuming I'm in one piece I'll come armed with something low fat and healthy.  :P

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 02, 2010, 05:53:12 AM
Yay! So glad that you're home safe. Sounds like a long day, but not a bad one apart from the clinic visit. The fact that you're able to jump in the car, go get tested and scanned, and even go longboard shopping just ten days post-ACLr - well, I'm very impressed! I so hope we're all doing as well at that point when our time comes...

My "things to do before surgery" list has gotten out of control. I just found myself eyeing our two-seater couch and pondering how much more comfortable a nice big sectional sofa would be for recovery lounging...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 02, 2010, 03:42:20 PM
My shiny shiny ligament is 2 weeks old today!

Celebrated by walking the doglet around our local country park - took one crutch and had the dog on a Halti collar which stops her pulling, and an extendible lead. Took it very slowly and deliberately, and tried to get good form rather than fast hobbling.  Indulged in a double caramel magnum ice cream (had to sit down for that one - ran out of hands) and am now home sitting on an impromptu chaise lounge made of memory foam mattresses on the floor in the doorway of the conservatory into the garden - the double doors are flung wide and the sights and sounds of a late spring/early summer day are all around.

The kids are off doing their thing - Ele at a camp-out at a friend's cottage in the middle of Wareham Forest, Cam is with his (girl) friend. Peace.

Incidentally - if you have a chance or get a chance to watch Spring watch on BBC2 (or online catch up) the Simon King bit is in the forest 5 minutes behind my house - he's at the "gruffalo pool" which is where Tashi decides to head for a swim if I'm not quick enough to leash her or divert her attention!

Calf continues to be a pain - I'm hoping that more mobility may gradually alleviate it. Strangely enough although I can now take some decent painkillers for it I've opted not to so I can keep an eye on whether it changes. There's a bizarre logic in there somewhere.

Snowy I'm wondering how different your place is going to look by the time you get your op :-).

Tez - hope you got a decent night's sleep.

Tony - any more exams to do? What do they count towards?

Lottie - hope you feel better soon - Stumps was bereft at not having another great adventure with Bob and the Onions.

Clarus - hope you are experiencing another burst in healing and can see the progress.

Wicki - I hope you're not on because you should be on HOLIDAY!!!


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 02, 2010, 07:46:20 PM
Cosmic you sound in great mood today it must be a weight off your mind that you dont have the dreaded dvt, sounds very tranquill where you sit just now I am most jelouse our weather has been a bit mixed but we have had some really nice days but now the sun in saving itself for July for when Snowy Tony and I are off rehabing and sitting  chilling in said sun :D
good for you walking your pooch today mine is sitting looking at me with those sad eyes and I fear I shall have to take her out soon poor dog has put on so much weight since Jan, cos a short walk is all i can do just now, but I keep promising her once I too have a shiny new ligament we will get back to our long country walks, not sure if she believs me or not but she still loves me :) :) 
Last night I had a full lovely nights sleep first one in a while and the difference it makes to how I fell next day is amazing, so here's hoping for tonight :P
Snowy I have done something for my upcoming surgery I am now the owner of a shiny new cryocuff orderd it Mon night arrived today only problem is I asked for a medium and they have sent me a large so not sure whether to send it back or just keep the large as the velcro can be tightened  :-\ and it feels ok.
Lottie sorry your feeling Ill today hope its nothing serious and you fele better soon. I was looking forward to hearing about you and cosmics next day out so hurry and get well soon cos I need to read about the next exciting instalment of Cosmic and Lotties great adventure ;D
Take care all Tez

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 02, 2010, 09:25:26 PM

We will be having another adventure very soon I can assure you!!! Good news on the Cuff - perhaps try it with some water and remember the knee will be swollen so it might not be a bad thing if its a bit large. And when you develop super quads after rehab you'll be able to use it with your footballer's legs!!  :P Doesn't sleep make you feel awesome? When we went to the Cotswolds we had a super huge comfy bed, no cat interuptions, and blissful sleep. I felt the best I'd felt for 8 months.

Cosmic - sounds like a great day. I can only imagine how happy Tashi was to do all that running about and the Magnum....yummmmmmy.....perhaps next visit we need to have fish and chips for tea and an afternoon Magnum?!  8)

I'm OK, had another dizzy/giddy attack this afternoon and fell asleep (with contact lenses in ouchie) for 2 hours with the cat for company. I think I might need to bite the bullet and see my GP again. My symptoms seem weird for focal cartilage damage - both knees constantly ache, my feet have followed suit, my lower back aches (could just be compensating) and my thumbs are clicky and achy too! The vertigo is a new one, but it was really severe and I had to cancel work (typical - not had any work for a month and then today I get sick!) as I couldn't have driven a round trip of 300 miles. I am also extremely tired a lot of the time - i still hit the gym and work hard as thats my sanity outlet, I would be LOST without it, but I am perpetually yawning and tired and have to say I seem to be swinging into blue moods a lot. My diet is good, don't think I'm missing any key nutrients...don't drink much wine....but something isn't right.

This is not meant to be a whine!! I am just wondering if perhaps I have something lurking, or perhaps am anaemic or some form of inflammatory thingy happening. I would really like my old energetic positive self to appear for longer than a day at the moment!  :-\

Snowy - have you rebuilt that home yet?? Perhaps you need one of those DIY programs to visit where they do all the hard work and you smile - or perhaps not as they often choose such NAFF stuff, at least over here they do.

Right time to stop moaning and perhaps scoff a cheeky Crunchie with a cup of Earl Grey and Junior Apprentice seeing as hubby is away with work. Junior Apprentice - love their drive, but boy some of them need a taking down a peg or two!!

Hugs to all

Lottie  :)

PS Had a text from Wiki-Vicks saying she was on the train to Vienna - the knee was ANGRY, swollen and sore after the flight and she is a bit fed up I think.  :(  Told her to hunt out ice, cake and relaxation!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 02, 2010, 10:22:59 PM
Lottie you really need to go see your doc all those symptoms dont sound so good. How do you sleep at night cos if thats not good it could be part of the problem another thing could be some kind of inner ear thing as that could cause dizziness, as you can prolly tell I am a frustrated doc I watch all the medical programs on the telly and try to diagnose the patients befor the doctors do how sad I am  :P
hope you feel beter soon Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 03, 2010, 05:10:20 AM
Cosmic - you sound in fine shape! Every update I'm more impressed by how much you're doing and how mobile you seem to be. Dog walking just two weeks out is fabulous. :) How is the calf doing today? Is it starting to settle down at all?

Lottie - those do seem like too many symptoms to be associated with just the knee problems. They could account for the back and feet if you've changed your gait to accommodate the knee pain, but don't explain the rest. (I sympathise with the constantly aching knees - when my PFS was in its really chronic phase last year, I described my knees as feeling like "two rotten teeth" most of the time. Now it's in an acute phase and they feel as though someone set them on fire, which isn't really an improvement.)

I'm interested that Tez mentions inner ear as a possibility. My other half recently had a very severe inner ear infection that had all of those symptoms - vertigo, very intense dizzy spells, exhaustion, and depressed moods. Even after treatment the symptoms continued for a long time as the infection left a lot of fluid in the vestibular system. It's definitely worth having that looked at. Anaemia would account for some of the symptoms, too. Either way, you should definitely get checked out; it seems there's more going on than just the knee. Hang in there, and I hope you feel much better soon.

Poor Vicks - my knee didn't enjoy its recent flights either (something to do with the pressure change?) and was really grouchy afterwards. Hopefully it settles down now she's on the train.

Tez - will be very interested to hear how you find the Cryocuff! You should give it a try before surgery, to make sure you know exactly what to do with it when the time comes. I'm planning to get one too, so let me know how you get on!

I'm restraining myself from any further renovations at the moment. Fixing up the wall where we took the old vanity unit and mirror down in the bathroom will occupy at least one full weekend, and our bank account really can't support any more large purchases just now! Our finances have been a bit decimated by all the medical expenses - unfortunately MSP (our equivalent of the NHS) is quite limited, and the extended health coverage I have through work isn't the greatest either. It only covers 60-80% of most expenses, didn't contribute at all to the cost of the MRI, and has an $800 annual cap on physiotherapy that I passed in April sometime.  :-\

Had a much better day today after a really cranky knee day yesterday. It was sore when I woke up, but loosened up during my morning bike ride; then after my lunchtime exercises I managed to bend it as far as the other knee (momentous!) and now it's feeling pretty contented after my (freezing!) evening swim. Although it was so cold in the pool that it's possible that it's just gone completely numb...

Hope you're all having good knee evenings, nights or mornings depending on where in the world you are. :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 03, 2010, 07:29:14 PM
Hey all!!

Evening from a gloriously sunny Warwickshire. Bob and the onions wish they had been paddling in the sea - they are almost tempted to hop in that car and descend on Cosmic again tomorrow - the thought of that pub lunch, paddling, cake...yummmmmy...but I fear Cosmic you have PT tomorrow which is of course way more important and exciting.... :P :-*

I've felt miles better today. Knees almost normal, right big toe stiff but nothing I can't cope with. I am sure the back ache is from the big toe being stiff - I roll off differently unless I am in certain shoes (trainers mainly!) as it hurts to load and roll. I fear something surgical will need doing. eeeek. I am going to see the GP next week at some stage to check out the tiredness and the "flares" that keep happening. Snowy - hope you've had another good knee day, sounds like the flexion is doing really well and will stand you in good stead after the op. I SO understand about the two rotten teeth sensation of PFS. Somedays I would like to take off my kneecaps, scratch about and oil them up! What frustrates me is how it comes and goes. Winter is much worse for me, and I am dreading next year as I fear it might force me into considering something I am trying to ignore (either repair of the defects or PFJR... :o). But hey, one day at a time and I am not going to fret when I am having a pain free evening!

My friend has sent me a super duper abs workout that she says I can do even if I have onion surgery!! She is a fitness instructor too, complete freak!

Vicks has texted to say the knee is still sore, lots of walking up and down streets and hills and loads of carbs - not good for waistline or lateral defect. plus it is raining there!  >:( :(

Tez - did you test the CryoCuff or send it back?

Thought I'd attach a pic someone made for me ages ago - the cat looks like Boris but apparently the attitude is pure Lottie!  :D ;D

Hope you're all having a good knee day

Lottie xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 03, 2010, 09:16:16 PM
Hiya everone I hope we are all having a good day and the knees, feet. onions and calfs are being well behaved for a change
wee question what is PFS Snowy has mentioned it as has Lottie I assume its some kind or OA or something like that just wondered remember I am a novice Knee geek sort off as the knee injury is not that knew but my knowledge of all things knee are still at the nursery stages :P
The cryocuff is still in its brand new state I am leaning towards keeping it as Lottie said if I have a lot of swelling I may need the bigger size, also I will be using it sitting down so even if its a wee bit big it should be ok
Cosmic I hope things are going well for you and the calf pain is improving and all is well in your world
Take care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 04, 2010, 12:01:29 AM
Hey LottieBobOnionsTezSnowyClarusTony and all,

Lottie glad you are feeling better, have grabbed your shears by the handles and attacked your garden....

You may have seen on a hastily typed FB status that I couldn't resist the forest on such a glorious day, so I went in search of the Hobbies that have claimed fame on BBC Springwatch. The route I took is part of my normal daily 8 miles that I'd do in 2 hours, so it was funny turning back!
I did try a few steps without crutches but it's just not stable enough- that horrible whip and snap from almost straight to beyond comforatble ROM.

Got home with the intention of resting and instead spent time sweeping and hosing the garden (it's very small and paved with purbeck stone) and moving plant pots around.

The old calf seems to be better for movement and worse at rest ...but the more I do the more painful it is at rest so I'm in a bit of a catch 22. Tender and lumpy/bumpy and still have a pink foot.

BUT No pain meds for several days :-)))

I have to admit to having a power nap ("old lady sleep" as my son calls them) at about 8pm this evening for about 10minutes - I was woken by the doorbell bemused and befuddled - wondering if it was morning or night, school day or weekend!

Tez - the cuff that Lottie lent me is a medium - it did get quite tight when filled with icy water and worn on an elephant knee! You may be OK with a large - the velcro is pretty accommodating.   ;)

Ele's returned home in time for another camp out tomorrow night - Cam popped home for 10 minutes to get more "stuff" to stay out at his mates again tonight. Hubby home from Africa for two weeks tomorrow evening - hope he likes the newly decorated feminine and sophisticated bedroom  :-\!

Night All xxx

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 04, 2010, 06:33:03 AM
I'm so impressed with all your walking - even more so now I know you've been gardening as well. How is the knee feeling overall? And the graft site? Interested to hear that it still feels unstable when you try full weightbearing. What was the stability like before surgery? I imagine stability decreases the longer you're non-weightbearing, as the muscles get smaller and provide less support for the knee.

Glad to hear your hubby will be home tomorrow - I'm sure you've missed him while you've been going through all this. Does he regularly work away?

Lottie, glad you're having a better night. :) What's the history of the cartilage defects in your knee? Were they caused by whatever is causing the PFS? And thanks for sharing that abs workout - I like the look of that.  ;D

Tez, PFS is patellofemoral syndrome. It's characterized by chronic, often quite severe pain under the kneecap and is generally caused by an issue between the kneecap and the groove it sits in, including maltracking and patellar tilt. In my case it's caused by bad tracking due to a combination of overpronation in my feet and poor VMO strength. I've been suffering with it on and off since my first knee injury in my teens, but it's gotten really chronic in the past year or so. The "rotten teeth" description is the best one I've found; last winter I'd sit at my desk at work and my knees would just throb and ache.

At the time of my ACL tear I was back in another PT cycle working on the PFS; my PT had got me in a set of custom orthotics, had stopped me doing any kind of weights work with my legs and got me on very basic exercises to build the VMO, and I was starting to see some small but noticeable improvements. After the tear I had to switch back to the heavier legwork that I'd been avoiding because it aggravated the PFS (squats, leg presses, etc) and it flared right back up again, so right now a lot of the pain I'm dealing with is related to the PFS rather than the ACL injury. It's very acute at the moment, so it actually feels like the underneath of my kneecaps are burning or being stung repeatedly by angry hornets.

Treatment depends on the cause; severe cases of patellar tilt may require lateral release, otherwise it's PT, orthotics, and anti-inflammatory painkillers. My maltracking isn't severe enough to warrant surgery and it's clear from the progress it was making that conservative treatment will be a big help. My big problem is that treating the PFS is at odds with much of what I need to do for my ACL prehab and rehab, so I'm probably going to have to live with it being really bad for some time to come. The ACL is definitely the priority at the moment.

I do have early stage OA in both knees as well, most likely resulting from traumatic injury. If you check my signature line, you'll see that my knees have been a bit of a lightning rod over the years. My poor right knee was even hit by a truck in 2003.  :-\
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 04, 2010, 08:21:35 AM
Snowy and I share the same knees!! Snowy - my cartilage defects have been caused by lateral patella tilt and over pronation and a tendency to rotate my hips inwards when I run and rotate my ankles out! Like a floundering chicken! I've had non painful symptoms since I was about 18 (crunching, cracking, creaking) but last year they got worse after too much hard impact exercise (running, military boot camps etc). I then saw a PT who basicaly killed the left one - aggressive patella manipulation and stuff and the knee looked worse than ever and I couldn't even walk properly. She also told me to have a month without leg work at all (not even cross trainer etc) and any VMO I had vanished. I'm now working with a new PT and the exercises sound similar to yours - very basic repetitive ones working VMO, glutes, hips, hamstrings and loads of stretches and foam rolling. I am seeing some improvements, but I also have early OA in the medial compartments plus a cheeky grade 4 defect on the medial condyle that I tore off in a bout of sprints last year. Surgery is mooted for me, but I read very little positive about an isolated lateral release, ditto with MFX especially on the "older" knee (41) with not so fab surrounding cartilage. Surgery with biomechanical issues apears to be fraught with problems, rather than post injury reconstruction which is clearly indicated as needing to be done.

So - I shall carry on with PT and adaptations. I get fed up with not having normal knees, but ACI/Cartifill/LR & TTT or whatever wouldn't give me a normal knee either. I suspect one day I will be bionic. I am hoping in 10 years they can give me a bionic knee with no metal - but with REAL cartilage grafted across the whole of the wrecked surfaces! How cool would that be?!

Right its breakfast time!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 04, 2010, 03:34:23 PM
Yes I know it's sad being online when it's sooo beautiful outside - but I am outside!

PT this morning and good news - I'm behind schedule!!!!!

Why is that good news? Because all you prospective ACLr's who think I am doing soooo well will most likely do better than me on your rehab  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Advised to stay with two crutches as knee is unstable at between 20o and extended and has a tendency to snap into position. I'm also better on two as it encourages me to fully extend the leg.
Wounds are doing OK - the long one is almost healed, one portal is still a little open and cleanly oozy (perhaps it is the Dr Who "crack in the wall" portal leading to another dimension!).
Patellar tracking is out so lots of VMO work...the PT was pretty dismissive of the ouchies it's causing and told me off twice for lifting my leg off the couch  :-\ !
Not allowed back to gym until cleared at next week's PT.
Definitely not allowed to swim until after 10 weeks (I did push that one a bit Snowy just to see LoL)

The calf pain and swelling is from excessive blood/fluid accumulation. The pain on the inside of my ankle is where the muscle compartment opens and the fluid is trying to drain.  The swelling and lumps in my calf are blood solidifying - and although I've been massaging with Arnica twice daily I need to be more brutal to dispel the accumulation....

On the way out of PT i bumped into the saint who was my PT after my last op (her diary was full so I couldn't rebook with her)... she suggested not resting with my foot elevated and with a cushion under my heel as all other ACLr's are told to do - as this just encourages fluid to sink into the calf. When resting I have to lie on my front and and do lots of knee straightening, bending the knee to 90o so the sole of my foot is facing the ceiling...... absolutely NOT but sitting with my leg in front of me and a cushion underneath my heel!!!!!! So logical when you think about it... as that's when it hurts the most!

So Dudes - another day in shiny new ACL paradise :-)))

Lottie and Snowy - Knee Twins LoL


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 04, 2010, 03:56:10 PM
(Sorry Cosmic for hijacking your thread with a bit of a diversion into PFS territory)

Lottie, thanks for sharing your knees' backstory - it does sound like we have the same issues! My GP referred me to an OS for my symptoms about 3 years ago because they'd gotten so severe, and I saw the same guy that I'm now seeing for my ACLr. (Little did I guess how important that visit would turn out to be, as it ended up being the reason I was treated as an existing patient this time and was able to bypass the 18 month waitlist.) Interestingly for an OS, he was the one who cautioned against surgery; he said a lateral release wouldn't be guaranteed to fix the problem and he'd prefer to see how I did with bracing and PT for at least a year. He also advised me to stop running and doing some of the "boot camp" style classes I was doing at the gym; I've never been a big fan of running so that wasn't too much of a hardship. I just started spending more time on my bike and doing my own workouts.

Until last summer things were going well, then we moved house and after three weeks of hauling boxes and laying floor my knees went into a very bad phase again. I also lost a lot of VMO strength over the winter because my knees were so painful that I wasn't doing much legwork, good or bad, apart from skiing and cycling. This time I was sent to a sports medicine specialist at UBC, and he also said he thought we could settle things down without surgery. He sent me to my current PT (who has a really good rep for working with knees.) My PT was very confident we could get back to a manageable state with conservative measures, but he's been very upfront about the fact that the PFS has to take a back seat to the ACL prehab at the moment. I'm still wearing my orthotics and doing all the basic repetitive exercises for it, but I can't avoid the stuff I need to do to strengthen my quads.

One thing I'm not very clear on is the difference between PFS and chondromalacia. Someone (I think it was on this board) suggested that what I refer to as the "acute" PFS (the burning vs. the aching) could actually be chondromalacia. I haven't had time to follow up on that yet, but I want to look into it. I'm also hoping that if I build my VMO as much as I can prior to ACLr, the immediate post-surgery phase will actually give the PFS time to settle down before I go into full rehab.

My big fear, of course, is that I'll do something irreparable to the cartilage while I'm focusing on the ACL recovery.  :-\ I was diagnosed with the OA in my left knee at 28 and the right knee at 32 (I'm now 33), which isn't good. One of the reasons I was so aggressive about bringing the timelines down on the ACLr was that I know I'm at a very high risk of further degeneration. I'm quite prepared to give up whatever I need to in order to look after my knees, with the exception of skiing. If that means quitting other things so that I can stay on the slopes, I'm okay with that.

I do think you're right about the progress of cartilage grafting. It's made such progress in the past few years, and will likely continue to do so - they seem really close to finding a really great technique, but just not quite there yet. And just look at ACLs - one of my coworkers was saying her husband tore his 20 years ago and they just sewed it back together, which of course failed as soon as he went back to activities. Now we not only go into the op with a good chance of success, but we have a range of grafts to choose from. :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 04, 2010, 04:06:40 PM
Well boo for behind schedule, but if your PT doesn't mind I'm still going to be impressed with how much you're managing to do. :)

What sort of stuff did they give you to do for the VMO? I imagine that's going to be tricky if the leg is still sore.

I guess the fluid/blood accumulation does make sense for the calf pain, and it's good to hear that there's something you can do for it - hopefully switching resting positions will help.

Keep us posted on how things feel on the new regime!

Okay, time for me to head off to's a grey and rainy day (again!) here in Vancouver, but with July 9th fast approaching I'm trying to appreciate even the soggy bike rides while I can. :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 04, 2010, 07:40:40 PM
My my you lot are a chatty bunch!!

Good to hear all is going well for you Cosmic - PT's not a sprint but a marathon (or some such rubbish  ;D )

My knee didn't enjoy the flight nor the dragging of 18kg  ::) suitcase up stairs and on and off trains.   Nor indeed the walking for an hour yesterday - including up and down a hill (not steep by Austrian standards), perhaps not the best idea when knee impaired (and meant to be resting) but hey!  Treated with coffee and cake in the afternoon  ;)  More restful day today, bit of walking on the flat and then a therapeutic 3 scoop ice cream (yum yum yum).  Not exactly diet fare, but I am on holiday and the other things I have been eating are generally healthy and fibrous (beer is made out of natural ingredients too, right?) !

Off to Vienna tomorrow afternoon to meet brother and friends (more train but hopefully less busy).  Will try to be sensible with the walking and take plenty of cake and ice cream breaks  ;D

Weather was pants on Wednesday and yesterday, much improved today (my knee got some sun) and it's forecast to be good over the weekend (so we can sit out and enjoy the ice cream and beer)  8)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 04, 2010, 10:10:32 PM
Cosmic even though your physio is telling you you are behind shedule you still seem to be improving day to day and as Vicky said its all something to do with sprint's and marathon's. At least with your husband coming home you will have someone else to do the arnica massage so that might help the calf pain and tightness  though maybe not as soon as he comes through the door I just had a vision of you framed in the front doorway clutching your wee tube of arnica with one trouser leg rolled up as you hubby alights from a taxi ::)
Lottie and Snowy you two have so many similarites when it comes to gubbed knees I really need to stop and have a think about you two and what you have to go through most days when I am feeling sorry for myself cos I'm having a bad knee day.
Vicky coffee cakes and beer thats what I call a holiday my advice is do more of the coffee, cakes and beer and less of the walking
and before you know it you will be having a ball
Take care all tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 04, 2010, 10:34:03 PM
Evening all,

Cosmic - behind schedule???? How many other ACLr-ers were paddling 8 days post surgery?! Pah! They knows nottttttttttthink!!  :P ;D  Seriously, beind schedule. ahead of schedule, whatever - it is indeed a marathon not a sprint and so long as you make progress and work hard then you'll get there. I think that considering your history of locked leg, caught stump and so on, your progress is awesome and will keep going. I know how much the dwindling of the VMO affects the patella tracking and that will be having an effect on the ouchies. So, it'll be VMO work and lying on that tummy for two weeks? Just watch the pets don't clamber over you when lying down - lottie-mog likes to walk over me if I ever lie on my tummy in bed and she always whacks a paw behind the knee - FFS!!!  :o

Snowy - my transatlantic knee twin! I am impressed that you ski and bike so much with pretty significant PFS. I am with you on the avoiding surgery of the lateral release type if at all possible. The difference between PFS and chondromalacia doesn't seem that clear, although I know with chondro there would probably be some definable changes to the cartilage under the kneecap even if at Stage 1 of a general disruption. I have Grade 3 and Grade 4 defects, so I think I am well into advanced chondro with early OA related changes. Opinions vary - one OS I saw said I had early OA and would be needing a replacement within 5-7 years of the PF joint. The other (Cartifill man) said I don't have OA but I have specific defects related to biomechanical issues. Whatever they describe it as, it is a darned pain in the knee a lot of the time. My PT treats me for PFS but then cautions that she knows I have an underlying "pathology" - nice way of saying I have chunks of bone exposed. OA appears to cause so many different types of sensations - the OA in my big toe is VERY different to the knees. The joint is thickening, there are big bone spurs, it is swollen, throbs at night and generally is nasty. It gets worse when I walk on it, whereas the knees love being exercised (within their limits of no impact etc) and are beter for it. The toe gets narky.

So - thats my decision for any fb friends - the right toe is going to be operated on. I am going to leave it to the surgeon to decide on if it needs a fusion or not. If it doesn't it will get re-aligned, debrided, possible drilling of the defects, and removal of the spurs. If its beyond the hope of this making a decent difference (and I DO NOT want to go through months of rehab if it won't really help!) then I shall consent to him fusing it. My gut tells me fusion. This joint is screwed! I've had enough of the pain and I am now limping - this is creating pain in my back and right hip, and i am limited to two pairs of shoes! I can't walk worse than I do currently with a stiff toe joint and at least the bone pain will be gone. The worse thought? 5 weeks of no driving and limited gym - I am making lists of exercises I can do with my foot in a surgical sandal (can walk on it through heel) - thank god we have a punchbag!! and weights! and resistance bands!!

Cosmic I have hijacked your diary again. This is a great thread, it is like a blog for everyone and I love it!

Wicki - more cake, more beer, less walking and some co-codamol. Bob has spoken!  ;D

Tez - forgot to thank you for your kind words. Bummed knees are a pain but you kind of get used to it, get on and then from time to time slip into the pity pit and cry with frustration (well, I do!). Knowing people understand is a big help. And then I read about 18 year olds back from Iraq with awful injuries and know my lot in life isn't that bad...

Sunny weekend ahead everyone in the UK  - what are people up to? I think a big fry up by the canal tomorrow at a groovy cafe, a day of no gym, chilling out, and then Sunday some more chilling and a decent leg session!  8)  I'll leave the hiking til post-onion.  :P

Hugs to all

Lottie xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 04, 2010, 11:05:24 PM
Sorry cosmic a little more hijacking goin on but just a quickie cos I have my ankle weight on and really need to get on my tummy and work the hamstring [poor thing hasen't a clue what lies ahead] but just wanted to say to Lottie congrats on the decsision on the toe surgery good for you I'm pretty sure you've made the right decsision  :D and thats all I have to say at present lol
Good night all
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 05, 2010, 05:33:40 AM
Cosmic - hoping your day in new ACL paradise went well. :)

Tez - from the sounds of it your ACL injury is causing you way more grief than mine, so I think we all have our crosses/troubled knees to bear. My ACL injury site is relatively problem-free, touch wood - it's pretty stable and only bothers me when I move in a way that doesn't work for it. A "tweak" of this kind will usually give me a miserable 24 hours, then it will be okay again. I'm actually dealing with a lot more day-to-day pain from the PFS. From the sounds of it your ACL tear site is much more troublesome, especially with the night pain.

Vickster - sorry to hear that the holiday has been challenging so far. I found flights really difficult as well (have been on four for work trips since the knee injury) - I think the pressure change encourages swelling and generally aggravates dodgy knees. Hope the weekend brings you less knee pain and more ice cream and beer.  8)

Knee twin Lottie - congrats on coming to a decision on the toe. Given all the associated problems that it's causing, I think it's the right one. Fusion is drastic, but at least if you go with the operation and fusion as a last resort you'll know that you gave it every chance. Life with a fused toe might well be easier than life with a chronically painful toe. As for the cycling and skiing, I've relied really heavily on bracing for the past few years and I'm sure I would have been far more restricted without them. It's actually going to be kind of interesting to see how the knee does now I've had to set the braces I was using aside in favour of an ACL brace which provides a totally different kind of support. That might be contributing to how bad the PFS is at the moment.

Since we're knee twins, just promise me you'll watch out for that left ACL! That's one area we definitely don't want to start matching.  ;)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 06, 2010, 10:12:12 PM
Hi Guys 'n' Gals -

Just a quickie post - Snowy my hubby works in Nigeria for a Swiss shipping company - his official rotation is 6 weeks away/2 weeks home, but it can be up to 3 months away. He's ex-pat so can't be back in the UK for more than 91days a year.

He understandably isn't too keen about me spending lot's of time online- so I'll keep on posting but it'll be brief (hahaha that'll be tough for me - Lottie made her hubby laugh when she told him she'd finally found someone who talked more than she does  :-* :-* :-*)

Anyway - calf still playing up - I've invested in a massage brush thingy with rubber nobbles (hubby's not into calf massaging so I'm getting creative) let's see if it helps get this fluid moving.

Forgot to say I was up to 120o flexion on Friday - but not yet straight (but PT doesn't measure extension - not straight is enough information to keep working on it!).

Pottered around the shopping centre today with one crutch yay  ;D (smiley is for one crutch no shopping  :-\!)

Thanks guys for the sprint and marathon analogy - I'm quite happy being the tortoise  :-* ;D

.... I'm hoping to sneak to the gym to try the bike this week  ;)

Hope you are all enjoying some sun wherever you are!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 06, 2010, 10:46:29 PM
Good evening everyone hope all is well with you lovely people :D
Cosmic I had a feeling we might not hear quite as much from you now your husband in home for a while but good for you if you can manage a wee quickie now and again[get your minds out of the gutter you lot I mean a wee quick post] just to let us know how  things are going for you, sorry the calf is still not too good I hope your massage brush helps, what about this lymphatic massage that I have read about on here I think Snowy has some info on it I'm pretty sure there will be some massage therapist who does that kind of thing. good for you out with just 1 crutch :D but thought you were told to keep using both crutches for another wee while ??? I'm not going to nag you about it but just be carefull you dont do any more damage please....
Lottie I hope you are doing ok and the knee and the onions are not giving you too much trouble today, you mentioned on FB that you could be having your surgery at the end of the month that brillient news I think once the decision has been made you just want to get it over with to start you rehab and be on the next stage of getting you normal life back ;)
Snowy your right about the acl pain I dont think any of us are having the same experience pain wise with this injury its a shame you are having this problem with your knee on top of the other knee problems you have, just as well you have warned Lottie to watch out for her acl,  as you two have so many knee related simalarites in return you have to watch out for foot problems  as thats the last thing you need :-\
well its time to squeez a little more excersises in before bed so good night all and take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 07, 2010, 02:56:50 AM
Hey stranger! If you guys only get two weeks out of eight together, we'll completely understand if your online presence is a bit scarce for the next couple of weeks. :) That's a harsh limit on the amount of time you get to spend together - do you get to go out to Nigeria much?

I imagine the lymphatic massage would be tricky until the wounds are healed, but it really helped with my swelling - let me know if you want details.

That's great news on the flexion. Sounds like it comes back way faster after the recon than after injury, although I had a bit of a battle with a stiff leg and the problems I had may not have been typical. How's the walking doing now you're down to one crutch? Will be very excited to hear when you get your thumbs up to try the stationary bike. :)

I had a great day today - I joined my friend Jodi at the Vancouver Bike Club for one of their Sunday rides. This was a fairly short one, about 75k over to the north shore and back. We rode around Stanley Park, over the Lions Gate bridge, and then along the wonderfully scenic (and hilly!) Marine Drive to Horseshoe Bay for lunch. Weather in the morning was cool and overcast, then the heavens opened on the way back and left a group of very drippy bikers at the end of the ride. I was really happy with how my knee held up, as there was more than 1,000m of elevation gain from start to finish. The they invited me to join the club and I had to explain that I only have four more riding Sundays left for the forseeable future.  :'(

Time to take my knees off for a soak in a hot bath to thank them for their efforts today.  :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Clarus on June 07, 2010, 11:48:59 AM
Hi Cosmic,

(and all you lovely people who have now joined this thread - I know some of you from other places but haven't 'spoken' to Lottie and Vickster yet  - tho I've read about you both ;) )

Cosmic - hope the massaging is going well and the calf is settling,
120o flexion sounds pretty darned good, my flexion has reached a bit of a standstill due to swelling  :-\
Enjoy your time with your husband - I had a few friend in my 'NCT' days (Natiional Chidbirth Trust in the UK for those who don't know) who had husbands on similar rotas.

Snowy, sounds like the bike ride was a really satisfying event, hope the knees appreciate all you do for them.

Tez, that's not you getting bossy again is it now? ;)?

Hi Lottie, seen you on Cosmic's FB - all the best with your impending op - sounds like you've had a real 'tottering' time with it all.

Ho hum - off now to try to do some more of 'very little' as per the physio's instructions to try to reduce the swelling  :-\
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 07, 2010, 02:01:06 PM
Good day all you lovely people
I hope everything is going well for you all. wee quick question how long are you usually kept in hospital after a aclr, my surgeon said 2 or 3 days but I'm sure from what I've read from others, most people are usually in for the day or sometimes over night, just trying to find out as much as possible before it's my turn...
Clarus you'r right thats me being bossy again!!!! sorry cant help it it's one of my less atractive traits....... just as long as you know its only cos I care :-[
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 07, 2010, 02:16:14 PM
Hello gang!!

Monday Monday........and it is raining! Cosmic - hope the calf is settling down a bit, I got your text and glad that Stumpy is having a soak (well, kind of sticking out of the bath soak anyway!). make sure you don't let Hugh loose on any of that Hotel Chocolat bar if there is any left..I've just had to dip into the emergency Bochox bar! Go steady with the one crutch too, don't want any further injuries!

Snowy - your bike ride sounds awesome. Knees are weird things - sometimes mine just prefer doing some hard exercise to doing nothing, then sometimes I know I have tried too much. My last knee overload was a spinning session with hard hill climbs in it, fine at the time but agony for 3 days after. Your pics on FB just make me want to come and squat in your spare room. Awesome scenery, certainly a little brighter than warwickshire in the drizzle....

Clarus - hello! We must add via fb too. I like our KG network of support and sharing. Hope things are going well for you, bummer about the swelling but it does take ages for extremeties to foot will probably be swollen until I am about 76.  ::)

Tez - I think how long you stay in depends on both the surgeon and the pain control they get. I would actually prefer to know I could be in for 1-2 nights if it means they will be monitoring pain etc and sending me home when I'm ready for it. I'll be in overnight for my onion op. I'm usually fine with generals so i am expecting I'll be ravenous and making the most of the Nuffield menu - if not Richard will be eating his way down the menu and getting our moneys worth...

Me - well, the knees are good today. I saw my PT this morning who did some trigger point work on my anterior tibialis and lateral tibial bump boney bit - I have been geting like shin splints without the impact triggers, and she said its related to my big toe issues and gait. Its helped reduce the burning feelings I was getting and I am glad she didn't tell me I also have lateral compartment degeneration as well as in the other two! Then I went to the gym, and did a decent mix and WOWSERS I managed 8 squats on a BOSU with some dumbells in my hands!! I haven't squatted on a BOSU for over 12 months.  ;D  I am sure the knees were making horrible noises but I had my ipod on and ignored them, it didn't hurt so I carried on. The onions are sore now I'm home, so I am glad I am biting the bullet and doing the worse one. My PT said my foot OS is one of the TOP chaps in the UK which is nice to know and she said even after fusion I should be fine with most activity apart from needing to squat on my bent toes.  :D

OK, ironing beckons. Happy days!

Hope everyone is OK and has relatively happy knees!

Lottie x :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 07, 2010, 03:47:51 PM
Tez - unless there are complicating factors, ACLr is almost always done as a day surgery here. I'm expecting to be home the same day if all goes smoothly, though I have some concerns about how I might react to the general as I've never had one before.

Clarus - isn't it funny how "very little" is actually the hardest thing of all to do? (And that's just with my small family of the two of us and our kitties - I can't imagine trying to do very little with four kids!)

Lottie - That's fab news on the knees, especially the BOSU squats. Do you have a date for the onion op yet? It sounds as though that may actually improve your knees once it's done, if gait is part of what's causing the problems. You're welcome to come visit anytime, as long as you don't mind sharing the spare room with two small noisy cats! Funnily enough this has been the worst spring/early summer weather since I moved to Vancouver five years ago; normally June here feels like August in the UK, but it's much cooler and wetter than normal this year. Vancouver's pretty stunning even in dreary weather, though; I just love being so close to the mountains. At the moment all I want to do is ride/swim/hike...I think the looming ACLr rehab has me desperate to pack as much as possible into the time before surgery. Unfortunately it's Monday morning and I have to go to work instead. ;)

Cosmic - hope you're enjoying the time with your hubby. :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 07, 2010, 06:01:15 PM
Hey hey all!

Clarus - hi :)

My knee is being put through its paces - far more walking than I probably should - but supported (not pleasant as the support is thick and it is well hot - going to be 32 deg in Budapest on Friday!  :o )  Managed to walk around Bratislava without too many issues today - even up and down steep slopes and steps to the castle.  Being well treated with ibuprofen, co-codamol, beer and ice cream  ;D  And other distinctly waistline unfriendly foods!

Lottie - excellent news on your progress

Cosmic - hope all is feeling better after the DVT scare and you are being waited on by Mr Cosmic :)

Catch up soon...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 07, 2010, 06:22:03 PM
Wow Snowy - That's some ride, the distance but especially the rise!!!! At least you know that the offer is there when you have recovered - something to look forward to. 

I've found a clinic locally that does lymph massage amongst other lush things - I may have to go down that route as what I am doing doesn't seem to be touching the calf swelling (the brush has just left me raw from over-exfoliation LoL).

The return of the flexion is great - I spent 4 months pre-scope stuck with 30o ROM between 30-60o, then it took another month after the January scope before the swelling and bone bruising settled enough for flexion to return. As most people say it's the extension that is critical pre and post op.

I'm still finding walking with good form very tough- I lurch ::) - and slowly lurch at that! I'm going to have to go to a dance studio and practice walking in from of the mirrors  :P.

Rain today - Lottie I think your shower finally reached the south coast!

I haven't been to Nigeria and it's not a place that's high on my "must visit" list. When Hugh is there he lives in a purpose built secure complex, has a security guard and driver (not to mention the maid and cook.... having to wait on me isn't quite what he's used to  ::)!).

There is a lot of instability relating to the oil in the Niger Delta, the ceasefire agreed by the president and the guerillas in October on the grounds of negotiating oil rights was called off when the president fell ill and spent so much time in Dubai that rumours spread he had died. In the end he did, but by that time a new acting president Mr Goodluck Jonathon, had taken power... but no sign of the ceasefire being reinstated. Kidnappings of oil related workers are commonplace, so it's not a happy place to be.

Mr Cosmic has been there 1.5 years (he was in Equatorial Guinea for 2 years before that), and moves to Angola for an 8 month secondment when he goes back this time. None of them are good for tourists - bah humbug!!!

Tez - from what I've seen NHS ACLr is usually a day case - they need to keep the cost down and free up the beds (from the reports I've read).... and over 90% of patients interviewed in the reports stated that they were happy having the op as day surgery. The only reason I stayed in overnight was because my blood pressure drops after the general and leaves me good for nothing!

Hahaha Lottie - chocolate left? hahahhahah ..... I think it made it to day 3!!! :o .......

Clarus - bummer about the swelling - is it the knee itself that swells?

Wicki (Vicks) - glad to hear you are enjoying your holiday and all the yummy meds/alcohol and ice cream cocktails. Poor Neelie will be steam baked at 32o!!!

Tony - have you finished your essay yet??

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 07, 2010, 07:30:16 PM
Cosmic - eaten all the chocolate?!!!!  :o ::) :P ;D

Need to ask - I'm pondering onion chop on either 23rd or 30th June - if I go for latter date I could probably combine my aborted Portsmouth appt with a Bob and Stumpy adventure and maybe crash over with fish and chips? Perhaps the days following Mr Cosmic's return?  :D

I've been and had a private Kenalog injection in my butt today - steroid, nasty thing but kills my hay fever stone dead and this year I can't face sneezing and wheezing as well as gimping. The lovely private GP (seeing as NHS won't do it and my GP has removed me anyway...) said "oooh this will make your knees feel great too" so I am expecting to be running a marathon by Thursday and then jiving at the weekend. Could it be 3 months of no joint pain?!  :P

Hope everyone is well!

Lottie  :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 08, 2010, 04:14:30 AM
Hiya all
Well its after 3.30am an guess whos still up,,,, this is getting very tired, and old, and sucky all rolled in together, at least tonight I know what caused the not sleeping, I had a lovely afternoon and evening planned 2 friends, daugher and I were going to a mall aprox 30 min drive away for a spot of shopping, dinner, and then off to see sex in the city!! unfortuatly we had a very heavy downpour of rain not long befor we left the house causing flooding on the way out of town, meaning that 30 min drive took me over 2 hours of clutch in and out most of the way, the knee does not like that one bit :'( the fact that this same thing happens everytime we have heavy rain it amazes me that nothing can be done cosidering I live in one of the wettest places in the world :P it defies beliefe....
Rant over ;D
Cosmic this new place sounds an ideal place for a massage at least they will know what is the best way to  get rid of the swelling its just a shame that your brushy thing didnt do the trick, at least now you have an excuse to go get massaged whenever you want. Shame you hubby doesent work somewhere like the moldives  then we could all come out for a visit ;)
I should find out on Thursday whether this new surgeo will want to keep me in after surgery or ot the other one stated 2 to 3 days which sound a lo tlonger than everybody else, no doubt I'll fid out...
Lottie thats not too long at all to wait for your onion chopping  I get a feeling it will be either you or Tony first for going under the knife then probly Kay then me last I must admit its all getting a wee bit real and close now just as well I have my holiday to take my mind off things ::)
Vicky hope the knee dosent feel too bad with all that walking in the heat anmd you continue enjoying your holiday.
Snowy thats a shame about the weather out there is Vancouver funnily enough we have been having much better weather than usual, apart from today but the fact you want to squeeze every last bit if activity ito your last few weeks of freedom berfoe you op aint it just typical that the weather in not cooperating
Take care everyone Tez         
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on June 08, 2010, 05:31:40 AM
oh CRAP tez is up! hi doll, i didn't want to see you here at this time of morning!
sorry about your weather... there was a tornado 40 miles (er lets say an hour's drive, I don't know km) away on Sunday so we have had many storms for several days. It's dry for now but more thunder stuff expected later in the week. I've heard any arthroscope increases the risk of lifetime weather sensitivity, is that true? Grand, if so...

Did you get to the movie and did you enjoy it? I was totally on board til the end and then it got a bit zzzzzzz... of course my knee was starting to act up by then too!

Remind me how long til your holiday? I try to keep up with this thread just to lurk since I am not an ACLr-er but I like you all the best! It's sort of the cool kid lunch table in here isn't it? I am not too proud to plunk my lunch tray down haha! I'm taking my vacation for July 4 week because no one at work ever told me that surgery vacation would replace it... I won't be able to do too terribly much but it's just a few days at my parents' house followed by a few more at the beach. A swim-up pool bar counts as multiple kinds of hydrotherapy right?

well hope you are reading this WAY LATER after you've had some sleep. I best be a good girl and get off the laptop now since I worry I am posting incoherent stuff all over.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 08, 2010, 06:47:34 AM
Tez - I grumble about the weather, but when push comes to shove I don't mind ignoring it. No-one ever died from biking in the rain. ;) I also have to remind myself that one of the reasons Vancouver is so damn gorgeous is that we live in the Pacific rainforest...and you can't have a rainforest without the rain...

Keep us posted on what the surgeon says. Will be interested if they keep you in overnight - they definitely try and avoid that here, though I think a lot of protocols are different in Canada compared to the UK.

Kristin - all welcome here, regardless of where and why you're having holes made in you! Although I'm delighted to find I'm finally one of the cool kids. ;) Glad all went well for you today and that you at least had a cute OS to take your mind off the procedures. ;)

Lottie - while sooner might be better how can you resist the opportunity for another Bob and Stumpy adventure? Sort of a last kick at the can before the foot is deprived of kicking, at least for a while. Very curious to hear if the butt injection does have any effect on your knees.

Cosmic - yikes - I'm not sure how you sleep while Mr. Cosmic is over in Africa, although it sounds as if he's been working in unstable countries for a while. Hope you're enjoying your time together. :) R.e. the flexion - how on earth did you manage being stuck at 30-60 degrees for 4 months? It drove me completely insane when I was stuck around 90 degrees for three weeks - I simply couldn't accept that my leg wouldn't do what I wanted, and would spend hours sitting on my stationary bike working the pedals back and forth trying to force an extra degree or two into the turn. (That was before I got the iPhone app that measures extension and got really obsessive about it.) I limped really heavily for about six weeks after the injury, so I remember that lurch feeling well.

Everyone else - hope your knees are behaving themselves tonight! Mine were great this morning, but then I tweaked the bad knee on the leg press machine at lunchtime and it gave me a torrid afternoon. An evening swim in the sunshine seems to have settled it down a bit.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Clarus on June 08, 2010, 09:07:44 AM
Good morning all  ;D

We also had a lot of weather yesterday - with a little associated flooding close by when the storm drain into the local beck decided to stop working, :-X It got pumped out and cleared and fortunately the rain stopped before the water got anywhere it could cause damage.

Tez -I really hope you got at least some sleep last night  :-\
 I was in overnight, but my op wasn't scheduled until @5.30 pm and I went home the next morning at about 11 (and to be honest - I was wanting to get off about 8.30 but I had to wait for the pyhsio, xray and husband to arrive, but that's just my desire to 'get on with things' which you may have noticed :P Oh - and I was offered the choice of wearing my own knickers as opposed to paper pants, commando wasn't on the options list ;)

Cosmic, it's around and above the knee- tho this morning it's pretty good around the knee- just swollen above - doesn't look too different to my other knee  ;)

Hi Kris  :)

Snowy - my 3 younger kids had the most enjoyable time when they got in from school - just running around in their tshirts in the torrential rain - it was soo warm. Weren't so impressed when I made them mop up their puddles and sort out their wet clothes afterward tho  ::)

Looks set for more rain today - fair dreich outside (well - it's dark, wet and dismal - but at least it's not cold)

Hope everyone's day goes well :D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 08, 2010, 03:37:58 PM
afternoon all or night or morning or whatever time it is :D
just reread the posting from myself this morning oh my god it was somewhat mixed up sorry,, but you  all seemed to get the gist so your amazing ::) ::) that's what I get for posting when I should be sleeping.
Kris hope things are going ok for you.... yes we did get to see the movie it was pretty good but about 45 min's too long not sure how much of that feeling is cos the film was just too long or I was just sitting in one place for too long.
I lived in the States for a while when I was growing up and the tornado warning and watches really used to freak me out, we might have a lot of rain here but our weather dosen't kill us whereas tornados and huricanes do often so that makes Scotland an alright place to stay :)
Clarus I had to use the most attractive paper pants when I had my scope it was a lovely paper hat and pant combo, glad the knee swelling is a bit better.
Lottie how are you feeling after the steroid injection any joint improvement I hope sooooo
I had a wee early finish today from work so may take a run up to this new hospital to find out exactly where it is, as I need to be there for 9am on Thur, Dougie was going to take the day off to take me but he would be hanging around for 4 hours too and there's no point in both of us sitting there all that time I'm so lucky my husband is such a good guy to offer.
Take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 08, 2010, 03:53:48 PM
Morning all from lovely Vancouver, where we finally have blue skies!

Tez...I know just what you mean about incoherent posting! I was so tired last night I'm surprised anything I wrote made any sense at all. It'll be fun to see how what kind of posts we come up with once we get onto the serious post-surgery painkillers. ;D Perhaps you could get your hubby to run you to your appointment on his motorbike - that would sure be the way to turn up for a pre-op! ;) Family support does make a world of difference - J. is taking 10 days off work for my op, and it's a relief to know I'll have someone there to help right through the immediate post-surgery period.

Clarus...that's awesome - and a reminder that even as adults, we should all go run around in the rain sometimes. ;)

It's a PT day today...bracing myself for a session with the IMS needles tonight. At least I know the PFS symptoms will feel much better afterwards.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 08, 2010, 04:16:18 PM
Greetings everyone,

Whweeeeeeeeeeeeee how much rain has there been this afternoon. I have just needed a ferry to get back from Cambridge (some 95 miles). Great summer weather.

Tez sorry you had a sleepless night again, was the film good though? I never got into SATC, I'm more of a UK drama girl for things like Trial and Retribution, Morse, Cracker, Prime Suspect and so on......I'm enjoying Luther on the BBC right now, final one tonight.

Clarus - we're fb buddies now, excellent. One day we should arrange a mega international get together. Bob's global gathering.  ;D  (Bob is my troublesome left knee - named after Sponge Bob Square pants as he has a square edge..)

Snowy, sorry you had a torris afternoon with the knee after the leg press. It only needs a certain angle on that machine and it can really trigger pain for me too. I am hoping I don't join my kne twin in ACL damage although my scans do show mine is "attenuated" so I must be careful not to wreck it completely.

Hi Kris - hope you're feeling OK after the op!!! Drugs...more drugs....

Cosmic - even if you're lurching you'll be doing it determinadly and with aplomb. You'll get there - and next visit I shall lie you on your tummy and hang 10 bars of giant Hotel Chocolat choc off the foot to promote extension. You can't eat it til the knee is straight.  ;D

Me - I'm effing crap today.  :(  I had my steroid jab for hay fever yesterday and got chatting to the nice doc. she has arthritis in her lower spine and we were discussing frustrations. She is South African by descent and a keen trekker but now she can only manage one decent day of trekking as compared to 10 days in Africa, going to Peru etc. She was about 20 years older than me though!  :-\  So far, my toes actually feel pretty good. I swear they are less stiff and achy. The knees - OMG whats happening, they are both RED, prickly, sore, hot, and aching like red hot pokers. I haven't even managed the gym en route home from my work assessment today - feel too sorry for myself and sore. perhaps they'll settle down - I don't think its related to the steroid jab, although you can get flares after them but thats usually when they go into the actual joint. Its time for tramadol and tea and cake. Weep boo hooo and I am FED UP with this ****!  :'(

Hugs to all,

Lottie x :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 08, 2010, 04:50:15 PM
Hey all

Another day of boiling heat walking around Vienna.  Saw lots of sites - Town Hall, Hofburg, Parliament, Upper Belvedere (famous for housing 'The Kiss' by Kilmit - pretty and impressive).  Knee as stiff and swollen as a stiff and swollen thing.  Whatever  ::)  Slightly less mad day of food today (after last night's crazy rib fest)!  Nice evening of Dalmatian food (no, not spotty dog, Croatian Coast  ;D )

Budapest tomorrow for more heat & walking!!

Hope the knees globally are behaving (ish) - Lottie, sorry to hear Bob and Bobba are cranky)  :(

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 08, 2010, 05:31:00 PM
Lottie - so sorry to hear the knees are having a bad day. I know that red hot poker feeling so well.  :( I really hope that they settle down overnight and give you a break tomorrow. I always find it's such an awful feeling when I have to skip the gym or other exercises because of knee pain - it makes me feel defeated and depressed, because it feels like the knee pain is in control. But your knee pain's not the boss of you, and you'll be back on top in no time.

*massive hugs*
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 08, 2010, 05:34:44 PM
Lottie I think you need a knee healing hug ((((((hug))))))

In fact I think we all need a knee healing hug today ((((((hug))))))

Take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 08, 2010, 06:29:13 PM
It's global knee crank day, it seems - mine is horribly painful this morning too.  :-\ Hugs, however, help - thank you Tez.  :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 08, 2010, 06:57:24 PM
What doesn't help, however, is realizing that I left all my painkillers at home today...  >:(
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 08, 2010, 07:52:35 PM
Awwwwwww, Snowy, we really are knee twins - we feel each other's pain.... :-\ :'(

Sending you a transatlantic hug and hope the pain lifts a bit.....and the day isn't too long...and you get a warm bath, maybe a cheeky beer and some of that lovely looking Vancouver scenery later to make things better.  8)

The cake helped mine (as did the tramadol...), I agree with the frustration at missing the gym,I HATE the knees beating me as I know I generally feel better after working out regardless. I just couldn't muster it today. Tomorrow - double the workout.  ;D  Been doing my PFS exercises catching up on Oz Biggest Loser episodes!  ;)

{{{{{{hugs}}}}} to all knee hurters today

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 08, 2010, 09:43:05 PM
Sorry guys - it's my fault! You are all having a bad knee day coz te universe has to stay in balance and I've had a good knee day  :P

I'm going to whisper the next bit for those who are gym-deficient today..... I've just got back from an hour at the gym......15 [email protected] zero resistance on bike, 15 [email protected] zero resistance on cross trainer, 50leg [email protected], and some hideous gym ball and roller quad stuff... how can I use a cross trainer and still walk with a gimp limp????

Tez - pre-op  day after tomorrow ;D ;D

I loved the lunch table analogy ... I was a bit of a nerd at school so that made my day!

Lottie - I have to admit to having help from the chocolate fairies (blooming house is infested with them!) in consuming the 500g of Caramelissimo slab!!

Huge hugs to all who have been cursing their joints today .... lets hope tomorrow brings a better day and pain relief to hand.


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 08, 2010, 10:32:55 PM

That is excellent work in the gym!! keep doing that and the gimp limp will be gone before you know it. Give it time - what is it - 3 weeks?! I shall sort out a date for Bob and the Onions to visit and think we must have fish, chips and vino and I won't drive home.  ;D

I've joined Tez in the Tramadol appreciation society combined with a cheeky wine and muchos chocolate. The onions are groovy and happy, and the knees still ache but I don't care.  :D

Does anyone want to adopt an insomniac silver diva tabby? If I have to carry her down the stairs in the dark with two bum knees at 2.15 tonight because she won't stop wailing and scratching she'll be up for adoption.....

Hugs to all

Lottie  :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 08, 2010, 10:53:34 PM
Cosmic - yay - no whispering for you! That's an awesome achievement and you have every right to shout from the rooftops!

The crosstrainer keeps your foot anchored firmly to the rest, so it sort of defines the gait for you. The open chain nature of walking is what makes it hard to get rid of that pirate limp. Back when I went on my first 10-minute post-ACL-tear bike ride, I could only just barely get my left leg through the top of the pedal rotation. The result was something I can only describe as a cycling limp - I sort of lurched a little bit to the left every time I forced the knee through the turn.

I skipped the gym (the thought of the leg press machine was making me cringe) but went for a bike ride on my lunch break to try and loosen the knee up. It actually helped quite a bit, though I think the awesome scenery contributed as much as the pedalling. Unfortunately came back to a very stressful afternoon at work, and am now heading out in a few minutes for PT. Ack, needles...

Lottie - I wonder if your insomniac tabby and our noisy little critters would actually distract each other from wailing at the humans? I think our kitties woke us up no less than five or six times last night. No obvious reason - I think they were just bored and wanted us to get up and give them attention. At least we don't have any stairs inside the condo...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 08, 2010, 11:18:17 PM
So with the exception of Cosmic knees today have been mostly evil funny how they tend to act up together mine was due to the 2 hour drive at approx 5 mph yesterday the fun of not having an automatic, then there is the strange behavior of the animals, my Misty dog had the weirdest reaction to having her ears cleaned today [cos she has long floppy ears she is prone to have smelly infected ears if we dont keep them clean]  well she stated acting like she was possesed or something a little scary to be honest Lotties and Kay cats waking at all times of the night there must be something in the air or water or something..
Cosmic well done on all the gym work it must be a good feeling to be able to do more every day, as the others said the limpy gimpy walk will be a bad memory very soon ;D
Lottie you sound like your in that nice tramadold state where the edge has been taken off everything ;) whatever gets you through the day!! well thats my moto anyway
Cosmic your right day after tomorrow I will hopefully get to meet the surgeon who will have the honor of drilling and cutting me,,
strange thing I got with the preop letter along with a map of the way to the hospital there was a questionair about the hight of my bed chair and toilet I am assuming it was a mistake and was not meant to be in with my letter cos it says something about joint replacement on the sheet just hope nobody has their wires crossed and the try to give me a TKR ??? that will be me with nightmares about it now
I hope we all have a better knee day tomorrow take care Tez   
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 09, 2010, 03:10:00 AM
Tez - perhaps you could write "New ACL please" on the appropriate knee before you go in for the op.  ;D

I've been given a thorough needling by the physiotherapist, followed by ultrasound on both knees. I'm never going to be a fan of the IMS (the sensation of the muscles spasming when the needles hit them is just horrible) but I have to say, it works (especially in conjunction with the ultrasound). That awful burning sensation from the PFS has gone completely. Last time it took a few days to come back, so hopefully tomorrow will be a good day. Lottie, it might be worth giving the IMS a try - it's certainly helping Bob's Canadian twins. :)

It was actually a really good session with the PT. We chatted a lot about my rehab protocol and what to expect after surgery. As long as all goes smoothly he thinks I'd be a good candidate for accelerated rehab, with a return to full activity at around 6 months; I don't want to count on anything until I get through the surgery (there's always the risk of complications - eep) but that's a great goal to aim for. He also promised that he'll gear the 4-8 week stage of my rehab program around outdoor activities so I can still enjoy some of the summer. Best of all, he says that provided I don't use my legs at all there's no reason I can't swim just as soon as the incisions have healed.  ;D That was really good news - it means I'll have a source of cardio exercise (so I won't go crazy) and I won't have to miss the fabulous Kits Pool for too long.

Right, off now to research how to encourage rapid wound healing.  8)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Mike Hough on June 09, 2010, 09:36:20 AM
Good going in the gym Cosmic. What I've found is that as soon as you are doing a proper circuit in the gym, fitness and strength come back pretty quickly - and then you start to walk more and do a few stairs etc. Its all positive feedback :)

Tez - make sure they draw an arrow pointing to the correct knee!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 09, 2010, 05:40:36 PM
Greetings campers!!

Has anyone got an ark???  :o  I feared the house was going to be washed away this afternoon.....

How are peoples' knees doing? Snowy - I am going to chat with an osteopath I used to see last year for a few things about IMS and things, he isn't local to me anymore but he knows his stuff and might know someone near me who can help. I think it is definitely worth a try. Bob is willing to give most things a try! The silver tabby kitty would be ideally suited to living in a room with some competition for howling. I shut her in the kitchen last night, they have access from there to the cat flap so they can come and go but she can't scratch at the bedroom door and howl in the middle of the night. Tonight she'll be back in there methinks.

Tez - blimey, don't let them give you bionic parts all through the knee!! You can't be beating me to the new metal and plastic knee parts! If they've got a spare patella though, grab it for me and I'll do some DIY. I think Clarus seems quite handy with the Blue Peter surgical approach and Cosmic can clean up the goop afterwards.

Clarus - how is the swelling coming along? And the resting?!  :P is Stumpy doing today? I hope Mr Cosmoswossy is pampering you or at least taking you for good lunches and some treats. Any improvment on the calf? I am the same on the cross trainer - even if my foot is sore I don't limp, and the knees move more fluidly. Perhaps we all need portable elliptical machines on our paws. I am thinking perhaps the week around the 23rd-24th or 25th for Bob and Stumpy's next adventure.  ;D

My knees are a bit calmer today - can't say my steroid injection for hayfever has really had any effect on my joints. Perhaps it needs longer before I can tell. I know the kneecaps hate being stuck driving a car for too long, and yesterday and today have both involved trips to see clients. 200 miles yesterday and 120 today, so they'll be glad of a long gym session tomorrow morning and today they've been doing PT work and stretches. Had my letter from the onion man - I think I only processed some of what he said, as he hasn't said a fusion will definitely be necessary or even the best option, it depends on the damage. He also cites that a simple arthroscopy might give some relief from the symptoms but the joint will remain somewhat stiff and the onion would remain (but it isn't the onion which is the root of the pain, its the arthritis around the big toe joint, the two co-exist). Thats about a 75% chance of improvement, which isn't insignificant and basically doesn't mean any time on crutches or in my big shoe. Could be a viable first option, need to think about it!

Thai green curry for tea - need to get chopping and cooking. Yummy :D

Hugs to all fellow knee-chums, near and far

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 10, 2010, 06:41:09 PM
Well I leave you alone for a day and look what happens - Tez has a date!! ;D  :D  ;D ... as for the rest of you I just can't keep up.

Lottie you must be having the rain for us too as we have had a light shower today and that's it! Yesterday we sat in the sun at Middle Beach Cafe, Studland with the out-laws, and walked across the sand to the next coffee shop for ice cream, then back again loL. No crutches  :o. Very slow but generally OK and working really hard at walking with a smooth and two and one and two and.... gets a  bit embarrassing when you find you are saying it out loud!

Calf is settling - still swollen and lumpy but I don't get the pounding, throbbing pain like before..... it just feels like is's really badly pulled all the time, but I can live with that. Resting on the tummy seems to help - and the massage brush, when used a little less vigorously so some skin remains, feels good if nothing else!

Mike - you are so right about progress suddenly accelerating once you start to get mobile - it happened just as you say after my op in January so I am really keen to get moving (just hope not too keen!).

I managed to get to the gym just before it closed last night for 20mins on the bike after dropping kids home from kickboxing - one of the gym instructors there has been working with me since my injury but didn't realise I'd had the ACLr - he thought it was July and was on my case as to why I hadn't been training .... he went very quiet when I told him it was my 3 week anniversary LoL.

So progress to date:

Generally walking without crutches - am fine unless I try to go faster than really slow when I get jarring pain under the kneecap.

Stairs up are possible but pants technique. Stairs down are laughable.

I have a couple of lively cracks on extension which are new but nothing unexpected, and are more queasy making than painful. I've been caught out a couple of times on pivoting, and the knee has locked painfully a couple of times on extending... all of which I think will settle as the knee realigns and the muscles regroup.

It's so easy to get hung up on every little new twinge.

Still working on the extension  :-\, but a least it's no worse than pre ACLr.

Hey - it's just 3 weeks and I'm happy (slow and happy  ;D).

On the way out of the gym last night I stood aside to let a chap past - instead he walked beside me and chatted. He was wearing a custom knee brace - it turns out he had a serious motorbike accident 7 years ago - tore his knee apart. It was about to be amputated  :o when "my" NHS OS stepped in and saved the day - ACL/PCL/MCL all grafted with a mix of patella an hammy (amongst other major knee tissue trauma)...apparently OS said it was the worst knee he had seen . The chap can't run - but works out at the gym, swims and can cycle. Inspirational. 

Today has been "take the living room apart and reconstruct it differently" day.... including stripping all of the sofa cushions off and washing them.... it took four hours to agree on how to rearrange the furniture, and it's only a small lounge!....
...and  all because my son has a new valve amp for his guitar and we needed to make space in the conservatory.... it's kinda worked like the domino principle.... now the rest of the house needs clearing/cleaning too!

PT tomorrow  - let's see if I've managed to make up a little bit on the recovery curve! I might not be able to walk but I can do a mean waist height side rising kick!

I might even attempt extreme ironing on the wobble cushion tonight.

Tony - 1 day of school to go  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Well fellow knee chums - hoping you are all making happy progress ...

Hugs to you all xxxx


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 11, 2010, 03:36:48 AM
Yay Cosmic! Sounds like things are going really well for you. At the end of the day it's not fast or slow that counts, it's the fact that you're making measurable progress every single day.

Hopefully the cracks on extension are you breaking through scar tissue, which means extension should be easier next time around. Glad to hear that the calf is doing better; hopefully as the bruising and swelling goes down the pulled feeling will go as well.

It certainly puts things in perspective when you encounter someone who's been so much worse off, and yet has had the strength to bounce back. I remember seeing a video made by Paralympian Josh Dueck during the games in February, and whenever I was feeling sorry for myself after my injury I'd think about that video and it would pretty much dispel any self-pity I was feeling. (If anyone wants to watch it, it's here - - but be warned that the content is harrowing and some of the descriptions are pretty graphic.) Josh Dueck went on to win silver in the men's sitting slalom at his home games. Again, an inspiration to anyone struggling to come back from any life-changing injury, even though what we're going through is on a rather different scale.

You'll have to let us know how the extreme ironing goes. :D I would never dare try that - Danger Kay + wobble board + burning iron = recipe for magnificent condo fire!

Unfortunately I've had a bad day as I seem to have caught the summer flu that's been going around at work, but at least the knees haven't complained too much. Mind you the fact that I feel like I have a hippo sitting on my lungs means they've had a rest today (no gym work or swimming, just my regular hour on the bike) so that might explain it. I'm going to get a very early night tonight and try and beat the flu back, as I don't have time to be sick right now - I only have two more weeks left at work before my vacation and then medical leave! It's all coming around fast...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 11, 2010, 08:24:47 AM
Moring all
Hope everyone is doing ok today, Snowy I hope you feel a bit better those summer colds are a nightmare  but looking on the bright side if you get sick now chances are you wont get sick coming up to your surgery date,,, how frustrating would that be after waiting all this time, only to have to pospone due to a cold or flu  :(
Cosmic it sounds like you are doing really well, with all the gym work and no crutch walking etc you are deffo an insperation to all us ladies and gents in waiting ;) I'm pretty sure cracks and a bit of pain are pretty much expected when you think what has been done to your knee, I would think it would be more worriesome if you felt absolutly perfect :o  Not too sure if rearaning furniture is on the prescribed list of physio excersises but it dosent appear to be doing you any harm so yehaaaa
Lottie sorry about all the rain you seem to be getting but it sounds pretty much like the ususal wether we have during most summers, so if we have a wee bit of sunshine I will celebrate big time, I have actually spent whole days talking about the wether to clients without anything else being mentioned, we are all a bit fixated on it.
Sounds like your op might not be as extreme as at first thought so that good and as long as it gives you some releif then its done its job, hopt bob and bob2 are feeling the love today..
My mind was put at rest at the preop as the first nurse I saw said ah so your havein the aclr yippeeee no new knee for me.
Surgeon that I saw was also not sure if there was somethig else going on with my knee so he  will scope it well before   he does  the aclr but if he finds something else that is causing my pain that he feels will be better sorting he may do that, its all pretty confusing so dont know what to think now but at least he will have a good old route around so thats a good thing  I think
well  better get to work so take care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 11, 2010, 06:26:29 PM
Lottie - I actually missed your onion update (this is what happens when I skim threads quickly on breaks at work.) That's good news that you have more options than you originally thought, and fusion isn't inevitable. I was chatting to my mum on the phone and she mentioned that she's probably going to need onion surgery after their trip out here, so I've promised to keep her posted on how things go for you. She's in her mid-sixties and is very active (she started running marathons at 55, and when she completed her 8th in under 5 hours the local paper ran a feature on her calling her "Exeter's fastest pensioner") so she's finding the onion pain really frustrating.

Tez, so glad you're feeling better about things after the preop. Isn't it funny how these appointments start to make things real? I went into a totally different headspace after my consult with the OS.

There's a rumour that summer will finally arrive in Vancouver this weekend, but I'm sulking because I forgot that tomorrow's my Saturday to work (I only work one Saturday every two months, so they always sneak up on me) and now I'm going to miss England's first World Cup match. :(

Feeling a bit better after a 9-hour sleep last night, though my lungs still feel like they're being squashed flat. I want to get any illness I'm going to catch out of the way before surgery, but I also don't want to miss any of these last few weeks out on the bike and in the pool...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 11, 2010, 06:38:59 PM
Last night of my holiday  :'(  Been lovely, hot and sunny.  Way more walking that I should have done, climbed up a nice hill and loads of steps today in Buda rewarded with a stunning view of Pest across the somewhat overflowing Danube.  Then walked back down...

Lovely hote herel with great spa, did 20 or so lengths of crawl on Weds and then 30 odd yesterday and just now too (plus jacuzzi for knee and sore feet pummel and steam and sauna for pore clearing).  Out for last dinner shortly - something lighter - heat + hefty Hungarian staples a bit much!  And no doubt some more beer before I go back on the wagon tomorrow!

Knee has held up better than I perhaps expected, sore and swollen and have neeeded  but at no point have I been unable to walk...phew!

Hope alll of the knees globally are happy!!

Snowy - hope you are feeling a bit better, colds are miserable  :(
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 12, 2010, 02:14:32 AM
Vickster - so glad the hols have worked out well - I know you felt they were a bit of a gamble before you went.

So PT today - started by parking in town at the top floor of a multi-storey car park half a mile from the hospital and took the stairs down and then had a leisurely hobble to the hospital with time for a cup of coffee and some toast before my appointment.

PT had nothing really to add - flexion is still improving, extension still not. She said there is a possibility extension may never come back fully  >:( - there are times where I do wonder as it just doesn't seem to change, but I'm not prepared to throw in the towel just yet!
PT massaged the scar a little to break up the adhesion. Just have to continue the exercises that I am doing to build quads and ROM. She was pretty pleased with progress - next appointment in 3 weeks.

Hubby went fishing at Abbotsbury with a friend - they pitched on the beach right next to the film crew for BBC Springwatch (just can't escape them in  Dorset at the moment!). 58 makerel in 2 hours! I hope BBC weren't expecting to film lots of fish today LoL - as I said to Lottie - .... I don't think there are plenty more fish in the sea, they are all in my freezer!!!

Oh well - it's Tez time... silly o'clock in the morning  ;)  :P - we had guests who left at about 1am - I had been struggling to keep awake but now cant sleep!

Snowy - hope you are feeling better - and your cat too xxx

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 12, 2010, 09:41:54 AM
Greetings all,

Snowy - hope the summer cold is reducing, yukkity yuk, I hate being stuffed up with a cold. I didn't realise your kitties were 20! I thought they were little kitties! 20 is a great age, we have have had cats get to about 18 but never 20. Currently Boris is about 3 (rescue cat so not sure) and Lottie-mog is about 8. They spent yesterday sunbathing and hunting, its a nice life and when I see their plyometric abilities then I am SO ligaments please....

Tez - hows the sleeping going? Glad to hear that the TKR is OFF the menu!  ;)  What are you coooking for your dinner party?

Cosmic - good work on the flexion. Bit of a bummer on the extension but they kind of said similar before and you kept making improvements so this time, with all the new bits installed, I suspect it will keep making gradual gains. Do you think you're back to where you were prior to the ACLr coz that was pretty darned close wasn't it? Sounds like the walking is coming on well, you'll be able to carry Bob and the onions at this rate. That text pic of the fish was awesome, that is some serious catching gone on there!

I'm off to the gym, hubby has gone to play golf as we joined a club when we moved here and he hasn't been making use of it so I have encouraged him to get a game with some strangers so I hope they don't thrash him. we had a huge curry last night so I'm feeling quite fat - I wore sandal type shoes and even walking 5 mins from the car and back set the right onion off and it stabbed all night. It had been feeling OK the past few days as the weather has been wet so I'd been in trainers/Merrels - it shows it needs something doing. Bob is OK, he wasn't happy being made to do some squats with weights on thursday (too much too soon) and was very sore yesterday but both knees feel "OK" so far today. Just the general low grade PFS gnaw at times. Oh how nice it would be to wake up and have them stay all happy and relaxed all day! Somedays - it happens!

Snowy - forgot to say how inspiring that you tube clip was of that Josh Dueck and his recovery. Completely amazing. A very brave man.

Vicks - good work on the walking, do you think you might be able to avoid MACI at this rate!!?  :P

Kris - if you're on here at all - hope your plica removal/chondro/synovectomy and decompression is recovering - you certainly had some work done!!!!  ;D  be kind to yourself!!!

Have a good Saturday all,

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 12, 2010, 05:57:16 PM
Vickster - that sounds like a great way to wrap up the holiday! Hope your knee behaves itself on the flight home.

Cosmic - boo! Clearly the PT is not familiar with Cosmic willpower. Keep plugging away at it - it may be a long, slow journey but as Lottie says, every little gain is a step in the right direction. Half a mile hobble sounds pretty good at this point. Does the knee get sore when you walk that far or is it pretty happy as long as you take it slow? Sounds like an epic fishing expedition on your hubby's part - what on earth are you going to do with all that mackerel?! Just thinking about a freezer full of them brings back happy memories of mackerel fishing off Beer beach in Devon when I was a little kid...

Lottie - to look at Laya you would never guess she was 20 years old - she's glossy and shiny and still chases her little toy mice around. Mara is looking her age more since she was diagnosed with the diabetes about 18 months ago; she has neuropathy in her back legs and is a little wobbly as a result. They're both very tiny, so not much more than kitten-sized. :) Their medical regime makes knee rehab seem easy in comparison - Mara gets an injection of insulin twice a day, exactly 12 hours apart; Laya gets blood pressure medication via syringe every night; both kitties get a dose of renal-k gel for kidney insufficiency once a day; and every other day they both get 100ml of IV fluids to help keep them hydrated. Apart from Mara's current digestive problems, they're both doing really well on all the meds and seem very happy. J has had them since the day they were born, so they've been in the family a long time. :)

Cold is doing better today - less sniffly, although my lungs are still feeling a bit grungy. The knee is doing okay today too, just a little stiff. Still can't believe I'm working during England's first world cup match! Thank god for the CBC, who are streaming it live - I'll at least get to watch a bit of the first half during my lunch break.

Happy Saturday to all, and COME ON ENGLAND! (I figure I'm still allowed to cheer for England given that Canada didn't qualify for the World Cup...)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on June 13, 2010, 02:08:47 AM
just popping in to say GO USA! ark ark... just kidding I watched bc I was forced it's all so boring!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 13, 2010, 02:26:52 AM
That's okay, it wasn't exactly England's finest hour... ;)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 13, 2010, 12:06:46 PM
Morning all or is it afternoon  ???
hope everyone is ok today and all you England supporters aren't feeling too bad they could have been totally gubbed by the USA
 Being a Scot I cant be seen to support England but to be honest I dont really care who wins or gets kicked out etc ::)
Cosmic hope your doing wel and things are improving, 3 weeks seems quite a long time to not be seeing your physio he must trust you to do all your excersises on your own. Fish in the freezer is my idea of hell fish that looks like fish is nasty fish that smells likk fish is even nastier as you can tell not a big fan of fish :P
Lottie not long till the onion hits the dust are you feeling calm and serene about the upcoming op as you will be abel to tell from other posts of mine I am so calm I'm almost comatose not ;D
Vicky hope the holiday was enjoyable and your not too down about being home now its time to rest the knee and see if things improve
Snowy 20 year old cats wow that good going my last dog got to 15 and she just started getting frailer and frailer losing weight and just slowed down untill all her organs started shuting down one of the worst experiences of my life was the day I took her to the vet and they put her to sleep we had had her since she was 8 weeks had her before the kids and she was my first baby, hope the flu is improving and the kitty gets better soon
Kris football is such a waste of time its a load of wee boys kicking a ball round a big pitch the only reason to watch it is to see the muscular thighs ;D I hope your feeling a bit better and you've managed to get your pain under control .
trying to decide wether to go back to bed for an hour guests did'nt leave untill 4am and I was up at 9 to clear up the mess now starting to feel a little fragile 
takecare all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 13, 2010, 06:41:25 PM
I don't think it's about trusting me to do the exercises, I think it's very much about the department being under-resourced  ::) !

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 13, 2010, 08:09:50 PM
ahhhh the joys of the NHS
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 13, 2010, 08:57:21 PM
Agggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I am already fed up with footballl!!!!  ::) :o >:(

Hope everyone is doing OK, Cosmic the shuffle around the woods sounds good today, are we having mackerel and chips on our next adventure?!  ::) :-\  I think I'd prefer to hit the beach again and that yummy cake.....

Tez why don't you like fish?! I love fish. Do you eat any type of fish, even tuna in a sandwich or prawns or stuff? Shellfish?  :o  Hope you're feeling Ok about your surgery - I am scared witless about the onion op, especially as people keep saying to me "oooooh onions, ooooh feet, ooooh thats so painful to have done I know someone who cried for 5 days after their op" Oh thank you very much!!!!  :P

Snowy hope the lungs are feeling a bit better. I am impressed with your Mum and her marathon running. She must have the speediest onions in the South West. I have been to Beer, it is a lovely part of the UK. Do you ever miss the UK at all? Do you come back to visit? next time you must let us know and join Bob and the onions in their adventures with Stumps and Wicki.  ;D

Kris I hope you're feeling a bit better tonight

Hugs to all, time to go shout abuse at the football. Pointless, bring back Lewis.  ???

Lottie  :) xxxxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 13, 2010, 09:22:45 PM
Lottie I love tuna and prawns and lobster but no likey fish that looks lie fish dont mina a wee fish finger now and again I know one of my wee quirks  ???.. I think the holiday prep is taking my ind off the surgery saying that I have had a few panics about it which Snowy and Cosmic have calmed me down, about dont know how I would cope with this whole thing were it not for all you guy s on here everyone of you are amazing.
I feel your pain when it comes to football total waste of time >:( also these people who tell you horror stories about the pain and all the things that can go wrong with something you are facing like your onion surgery,, you will be totally fine I'm sure and just think how much better you will feel once its all over and then you can concentrate on the knees ::).
Cosmic I think its dreadfull that the physio is leaving you for 3 weeks so soon after surgery from what I have read this is such an important time for the graft and especially for you because of all the problems you had before your recon I would have thought they would be extra carefull with you, I know its down to cuts etc but it still sucks, dont they realise you have adventures to have with Lottie and Vicki  ??? and you will need 2 strong knees to experience everything.
take care Tez 
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 14, 2010, 03:24:10 AM appears the Canadian is the only football fan on the thread!  ;D Gotta say, though, I don't think England are going very far in this world cup so it should all be over for the non-fans soon enough...

3 weeks between PT appointments does sound a lot at this stage, but count yourselves lucky - physiotherapy is not covered at all under our MSP system in BC (thanks to our current gongshow of a provincial government, who are so unpopular it's looking quite likely that there will be a recall campaign this fall.) I have some coverage under our extended health insurance at work, but only 80% of each session and up to a maximum of $800 per year. Unfortunately I exceeded that after the injury, so I'll be paying all rehab costs out of pocket. It's certainly going to limit the amount I can see the PT.  :-\

Lottie - you would love the fresh seafood here! (I'm starting to think there's probably not much you wouldn't love about Vancouver, except perhaps the healthcare system.) There's a fresh fish stand down at the Granville Island public market where you can buy fish fresh off the boat, and there are some fabulous seafood restaurants that use all locally-caught produce. It's currently spot prawn season...nom.

I'm feeling considerably better today, probably thanks to a boozy soccer brunch (it wasn't meant to be boozy, but we were with a Germany fan and she started ordering shots of Jaeger as the goals started going in), a long walk in the sunshine (to sober up) and an even longer swim. Poor kitty is still not doing so well, though - we're following all the instructions  but her diarrhea just isn't easing up and she's getting weaker and weaker. If things don't improve we'll have to take her in to the vet on Tuesday. We're both very worried about her. :(

Our last visit to the UK was September '08 - we'd hoped for another visit later this year but with the knee surgery I think that's unlikely now. Probably 2011 sometime is more realistic. My parents still live in Devon where I grew up, so I was able to take J on the coast walks at Beer and to visit all my childhood haunts on our last trip. My mum's onions are now too bad for marathon running, but she's hoping they'll be up to the Grouse Grind (also known as Nature's Stairmaster) during her visit to Vancouver later this month. :D I would love to join Bob, the onions, Stumps and Wicki for any adventure at all - and of course you're all welcome to come adventuring in Vancouver if the urge takes you. :)

I have to admit I'm petrified of the surgery, and as may be obvious by now my fears are mostly around a) the anaesthetic and b) the risk of something going wrong. I'm sure it seems more daunting just because it's my first-ever surgery and first-ever anaesthetic. It also seems very weird to be planning incapacity; I've been laid up enough times in my life because of injuries, but those are always unexpected and sudden and completely disruptive. It's very odd to know exactly when I'm going to lose my ability to do stuff for a while.

Lottie, if it makes you feel any better I know someone who had onions on both feet operated on last year, and she said it was okay - not much fun, but manageable. I think everyone's reactions are different. Her recovery was about six weeks, and she was thrilled with the outcome. Fingers crossed yours is the same way. :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 14, 2010, 05:47:21 PM
Snowy - I'm no football fan, I don't mind watching the World Cup matches but I despise the commercialism and celebrity culture which is so much a part of the football scene. I did surprise my brother as I had been watching some of Nigeria's first game live online (just to keep Mr Cosmic in the picture for when he goes back at the weekend) LoL

3 weeks between PT appointments isn't terrible, there seems to be little changing knee-wise at the moment (good in some ways.. nothing radical going wrong, bad in improvement in extension  :( ) and I am quite happy plugging away at the gym.... pointless me taking up PT time if it's not necessary. I suppose it's as much for reassurance during the early days,  like keeping a ship on course. I also find the inconsistency in the standard of NHS care can also be a little frustrating ...

Sitting in the lounge with rain HAMMERING on the conservatory roof.... wow - I think I've got Lottie's rainstorm at last.

Glad you are feeling better Snowy - it sounds like you pickled your bugs  ;D ..... sorry to hear your kitty is still sad. It sounds like you have been most diligent in their care... I hope the vet appointment goes well. We've had an assortment of cats over the years - all rescues. The oldest reached 19 - having survived a tumble in the drier at 17!!

I don't know what I can say to ease your mind about the surgery. There are risks in everything we do - and by the sounds of it more so for Danger Kay! I did get nervous pre-op, didn't sleep well but in all honesty by the time the date arrived I just wanted to get it done! I had one op cancelled on the morning it was due to go ahead last Christmas Eve - it was such a rollercoaster  :'(. I just kept that feeling in mind and it made me feel great this time when the day came and all was going ahead.
The anaesthetic is fine - it actually feels very bizarre and you may well be given something to help you relax so you'll be in a happy happy place  ;D  ;D.  The pain should be well controlled post op. Then the recovery is down to you ... and I know you'll be diligent!

The planning incapacity bit is odd isn't it. Like you my previous periods on crutches were unplanned, so it was very odd being on a countdown!

Anyway - here's the diary bit.... Day 25 .... I think

Calf pain is improving little by little, still feels like I should have done something very cardio-vascular to deserve such tender muscles!
Wounds have healed well - getting a good rubbing to loosen the scar tissue.
OMG I think the bruising is no longer visible - just feels tender on the inside of the calf where it was most impressive.
Walking is OK - still catching and getting that snapback towards extension, but any faster than very slow and it hurts.
Gym - bike 25mins (up to level4 resistance for 5 minutes), cross trainer 20mins. Tried out a new machine that is a kind of stepper/running machine but like the cross trainer and I nearly put myself through the roof. Ouchies. Not ready for that one yet then!

I've reached that point where the rapid recovery/changes post op have been replaced with the long slow rehab. It's going to be hard to be sensible, but I guess for once in my life I'll just have to do it.

Oh yes - and my side rising kicks are back to boob height  ;D (using bad leg as the kicking leg. I can balance on it but there's no way I could use it as a standing leg for kicking quite yet!)

Hugs to all you wonderful people. My life would be a lot less (.... looks for right word.....) jolly without you all in it.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 14, 2010, 06:24:12 PM

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 14, 2010, 07:06:04 PM

Hello folks,

Its not raining here but it is really COLD!! I'm sitting in my fleece, and fluffy slipper sock things from the winter. At least I have nice snuggled warm onions. Fried not chopped at the moment.

Cosmic - slow and steady wins the race. Bit of a frustration with the extension, looks like Lottie's chocolate hanging therapy will be in full swing at the next visit. Keep plugging away. was that new machine an Arc trainer perchance? We have those at my gym, and Bob actualy gets on far better with them than the normal cross trainer, but you must watch the hill adjustment and also the swing. The wrong angle and it catches the kneecap. The cross trainer is probably easier to control and also doesn't force you into extension as hard. I'm on an abs mission. I've always worked my core, but met up with a trainer friend of mine today who is very fit (teaches about 20 classes a week, is a pole dance isntructor too, and spin instructor, and salsa etc - and is 51 with the physique of a 20 year whilst coping with deteriorating vision and a heart murmur!) and she is on an abs drive. No alcohol in the week, high protein diet, only low GI carbs in the day, and 2 sets of the killer p90 abs workout per day. I need to compete!! So, my fridge is full of mung beans, prawns, chicken, eggs (yummy egg white omlet anyone for brekkie?) and stuff. I'll be able to still do that when the onion is chopped. Onions have been OK today, frustrating when they are as it makes me want to avoid chopping, but the right one is throbbing tonight.....Bob and Bobba are being calm, must be loving their thrice daily lathering with Voltarol gel.

Snowy - how is the poorly kitty? I hope she is improving. So sad when they get old, but she is getting the best love clearly and I am sure you will be helping her more than you imagine. I hope the vet's visit goes OK. Boris and Lottie send their love, in fact Boris sends a warm sleeping mouse that he dropped by the cat flap and a smelly sock he has dug up in the garden.  ::)  I am SO in to the idea of reloacting to Vancouver. All your pics look so lovely!!  8)

Tez - when do you go on your hols? Remind me where you are off to again. Has the hangover gone?!  :P

Wicki - nice being back at work?  :P :-*  How is the dreaded lateral knee pain?

Right time to stir fry my mung beans and cook pasta for husband.

Hugs to all

Lottie xxx :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 14, 2010, 09:11:17 PM
Lottie hols are a week tomorow going to Benidorm for the first time really hopeing it wont be tooo busy as its before the school holidays my giant kids are coming too which was a bit of a surprise as  Conor is 18 and Steph is 16 I thought they would think they were to old to go on hoiday with there old  Mum and Dad so it should be nice....
Hangover all better the saying never again springs to mind :-[
Mung beans are they as tasty as they sound :o
appoligise for the shouting I keep tellin Dougie not to change things on my laptop just wonder who he is shouting at ???
Glad the onions and the bobby twins aren't too bad today  hope they keep behaving for you, maybe a we throb from the old onion is enough to keep you on the right track for your surgery
Take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 14, 2010, 09:29:16 PM
Hey hey

Return to work was delightful of course.  I already knew I had one proposal to write this week, I was given another to do for tomorrow as! My day was not improved by a mid afternoon trip to the tooth butcher for a filling which resulted from a tooth breakage on holiday!  Sore and I keep getting metal on metal on the one below  >:(

Neelie the knee is being remarkably well behaved overall...swollen of course and the lateral portal is sore as is the lesion site when I prod or catch it wrong, so I guess I shouldn't prod or catch it wrong ::)  Generally however feeling ok.  No gym or swim today, work permitting, I shall go again tomorrow (am so missing the cardio stuff, although I do have a cheeky 10 minutes on level 6 on the bike, can't neglect my legs completely)

Scales looked positive this morning too  ;D

Lottie - your diet sounds lovely  :P

Snowy - My mad Woo cat sends his love too to your poorly mog (he is an oldie at 14 or 15 so can sympathise, although he is in fine stripy fettle)

Tez - you must be over your hangover if you are able to shout  ;)  ;D

Cosmic - all sounds great, how can you do 20 minutes on the XT and not die of boredom  ???

Take care of those joints all

Wicki xxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 15, 2010, 05:00:53 AM
Cosmic - excellent news on the calf pain and wound healing. Patience on the extension; I think it's natural for it to take longer with all the issues you've had and the previous leg locking, but keep working on it - it's still early days in the bigger picture. Very impressed about the side rising kicks, too.

I know the anaesthetic will probably be fine, but can't seem to stop myself fretting about it. Fear of the unknown? I think I just hate the idea that if something does go wrong, I'll be out cold and won't know or have any say in the decision making process. I guess I just have to learn to let go and trust in the OS (after all, he's the expert.) In some ways I feel very ready for the surgery to happen, in others totally unprepared - hard to believe I only have 3.5 weeks to go now.

Thanks to all for the good kitty thoughts - she's actually doing a little better today. Still very weak and frail, but she kept some food down and we hope that means she turned the corner. Long may Woo stay in his fine stripy form! The girls did very well up until about four years ago, and since then it's been one major crisis after another. Laya has bounced back admirably, but little Mara has been quite fragile since the diabetes diagnosis. When I was agonizing over whether to pay for my own MRI ($1000), my mum rather pointedly asked how much we've spent on the cats' medical care in the past 5 years. We stopped counting at $20,000 - no wonder we don't have any spare cash! Moral of the story: get pet insurance while your furry kids are young enough to qualify! We tried to insure the girls soon after I moved here, but were told they were already too old.  :-\

Tez - sounds like quite the party you guys had! Glad you're recovering now. Today marks my final glass of wine before climbing on the pre-surgery wagon; thanks to that focus group I'm going out in style! Shame you can't come over for a glass of the very good champagne they sent me home with. :)

Lottie - we had a gorgeous sunny day and then a massive thunderstorm rolled in about an hour ago, complete with crazy storm clouds, forked lightning and some of the loudest thunder ever! There's actually a fab video online of the last big thunderstorm we had in Vancouver - it's a series of timelapse photos from a day last July: Well worth a watch - the fireworks at the end are from the Celebration of Light, our annual summer firework contest. (The light was even crazier than it looks in the video - here's a shot taken inside our living room at the same time:[email protected]/37). Not that I'm showing this just to try and lure you to Vancouver, or anything... ;)

Glad to hear the knees are behaving. I'll be interested to hear how the ab blast goes - the diet doesn't sound too bad apart from the mung beans...

Vickster - welcome home, but sorry to hear about the dental work. :( Hope it settles down by tomorrow. Impressed that you're getting positive results from the scales in spite of the restricted activity...I start to pack on the pounds as soon as my cardio drops. (Still working on trimming off the last 5 pounds from my post-injury surplus.) Hope you get a good swim tomorrow. My trick with cross-trainer and stationary bike boredom is to set up in front of the computer and watch a fairly mindless movie or TV show; distracts from the boredom and works better than reading (I kept losing my place, or dropping the book.)

Had a good day today - I tied my stretchy theraband to the balcony railing and did my knee exercises out in the sun and went for an excellent 4k swim before the wine tasting focus group. Perhaps it was worth working on Saturday to get a sunny Monday off. :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 15, 2010, 11:07:22 PM
evening all you lovely knee geeks
A question for you all has anyone tried Regenovex for joint health??
A client of mine has had one tkr already and was due to have the other one done this year at some time, but as she didnt have a great result from the first one she is not sure if she wants to go ahead with the second one, and someone advised her to try this Regenovex, she has been takeing it for 2 months and says both her knees feel so much better and if this continues she will not go ahead with the second new knee.
wondered if anyone else has tried it and what they thought about it!!
Cosmic how are you doing today? how about the extension do you feel things are improving? and another question I wanted to check with you was how soon after surgery did you have your first physio appointment I was thinking of giving my private physio a call and arrange an appointment pretty soon after surgery even though I will be offered the nhs one and I will probably use them as well I would like to see Paul just to keep me right especially as I am not used to most keep fit and excersise wise unlike all you really fit folk  ;) I have decided this will be a good time to change all that and my vow is by the time I am 50 I will be super fit with 2 working knees.
Vicky hows the tooth feeling thats all you needed on the first day back at work :'( though excellent new on the scales what with the cake, ice cream and beer you must have walked you wee legs off not to put on amy weight..
Kay hows the puss feeling today hope there is an improvement and she gets back to her nearly healthy self I had to agree with your Mum on the fact that you spend all that money on the cats but had to be convinced to spend money on your own M.R.I
sounds like you had a great time at you wine tasting last night, I have decided there will be no more alcahol passed my lips untill I'm in Spain and even then I shall show restaint as I also need to prepare for surgery.
Sue how are you feeling today hope the knees and the onions are treating you well and not being horrid to you, how about the high protien mung bean diet experience thing  going are you sticking with it or has some lovely delight tempted you yet.
Well I hope everyone is having a good evening take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 16, 2010, 06:53:16 PM
4 Weeks Today  ;D

Hey chappies,

No internet last night   ::)  :o  :-\ -  I had to have a long Lush scented bath and an early night instead!

Vicks - the cross trainer has a TV/radio facility - so I can amuse myself with some banal entertainment..... last night was 25mins bike, 25 mins xt! My knee certainly feels better for the movement. I've upped the resistance a little bit - nothing stupid and I am being careful, it just gives y quads a bit more of a work out. I've also reinstated my ankle weights for walking - I wore them after my Jan scope with the clearance of my PT to try to enhance any work my muscles were having to do - so they came with me on the dog walk this morning. It feels like you are walking on the moon when you take them off.

Lottie - the "ouchies" gym equipment is the Technogym Vario .... .... - a veritable piece of torture kit for a knee challenged individual if ever I've experienced one! I'm looking forward to being able to use it without going through the ceiling ... so I'll keep tentatively trying.

I spent some time last night between exercises working on my hamstring flexibility.... it's always been good (pretty much into side splits at my best) so I've been interested to see how the hammy graft might affect them..... I was so chuffed that by the end of the session my ACLr leg was only a couple of degrees off my good leg ... and the good one is at the max of the stretching machine (it stops at 108o).
Now before you manic physical types mention it - I know my ACLr leg isn't quite straight but my knee thinks it is!!! ... I was so pleased that I made myself look like a real numpty and took pictures for your delectation (see below)!

Generally things are getting easier - less catching, my gait is starting to "normalise" with some concentration, and I've taken to lying on my tummy doing prone hangs at any opportunity! the extension isn't changing (yet) ... I strongly felt before the ACLr that there was something preventing extension (other than muscular/ligament/ tendon tightness) - it feels just the same now.
The private consultant wanted to scope to MUA and look to remove scar tissue - he said he wouldn't consider ACLr until full extension was reached. My NHS OS poo-pooed that. Both are highly rated knee specialists. A little part of me still thinks I should have got it straight first.... time will tell, it's all too easy to be impatient.
Today's challenge was navigating Asda with a full shopping trolley..... there just no chance of taking those 90o turns without hopping!

Asda special - work this one out.... Kellys Cornish ice cream (honeycomb caramel or strawberries and cream) is currently £3.87 per tub, or £3 for two! You just have to buy a few really don't you!  Yummmmmmy  ;D

CathyD - hoping you are home and comfortable.

Snowy - hows the puddy? Barmy Birman Blue (a mere kitten at 14years) sends purrs and an ear licking.

Tez - my first PT was 6 days post op - if you are happy with Paul then I think it would be fine to work with him alongside your NHS PT.
I've not heard of Regenovex but it is a great combination of some of the supplements I already take. Have you had a look at their website and the chart of the ingredients and what they do?   ... ...

Vicks - you ought to write the Bavarian diet book  ;)

Well, the shopping is stashed in clean and orderly cupboards (I'm a bit OCD in my kitchen!)... and it's nearly time to go and heckle the kickboxers again ....

Happy Day to you all!


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 16, 2010, 07:44:06 PM
Hey hey!

Look at you you little hammy stretch photo queen!!! Excellent!! I think the extension is a tricky one. It looks to be very very close. I guess time will tell, but if there had been scarring in there surely he would have got that out when he did the ACLr? Perhaps it is just swelling internally that is going to take some time to resolve? Are you positive it was straight before the accident?  :P :o ;D  (just kidding....). Sounds good on the walking and the catching sensation - you'll be beating the onions across the sands when they next have an outing. I sometimes walk round the house in ankle weights but haven't graduated to using them outdoors yet, they certainly make that quad fire more actively when you walk.

Wicki - got your text, sorry the darned knee is playing up again. Perhaps it needs a diet of cake and beer and will be happy? So frustrating when it just comes and goes. same with my knees and the bad onion to some degree. If it were out and out agony and no function then the choice to go surgical is more clear cut I think.

Tez - those supplements look good. I like the high HA component and I have checked and Boots have 3 for 2 on at the moment. The tablets are just under 30 quid for a months supply and the gel is about 9.99, so it isn't cheap but I found that Kordels Glucosamine did help me a bit, so I might give these new ones a go with a double pronged attack on the gel and tablets for a month.

Snowy - how is the kitty doing? I think you were mentioning she might be seeing the vet today, but I hope she has improved. I found a FLEA on Boris last night, so now I have to worm them both and get the flea treatment on their necks. I may be in A & E later, neither of them like tablet taking exercises.

me - well, the knees are feeling pretty calm, I am sure the steroid injection I had a week ago for my severe hay fever has helped them. However I have also been religiously applying diclofenac gel 3 times a day to them and cutting out the oral NSAIDs in a bit to save my guts more trouble. But they are doing OK, I'm maintaining my exercises, and we shall see. The right onion - ow ow ow ow ow, any type of walking for more than 5 mins and its off, including 30 mins on X-trainer. Typically I have had some work come in that I really can't turn down (very good rate and I need to earn before I am out of work for 6 weeks post op), so I have to do that probably next week, then I have another assessment to do and time to fit in a seaside visit with Cosmic and then Wicki's birthday on the 12th july, so i suspect chopping probably on the 14th July! We'll all be in rehab together!!!

Right, my prawns are cooked!!

Hugs to all,

Lottie xxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 16, 2010, 08:04:44 PM
Hey guys. :)

Cosmic - wow - check out that stretch! I'm not very flexible so I'm pretty sure my legs weren't that good even before I started tearing ligaments. Does the hamstring hurt when you stretch it out that far? I'm still quite curious about the healing process for the graft site, although I'm sure every one is different.

If it makes you feel any better I had big problems getting the last few degrees of extension back after my injury. My GP thought I had bits of ACL stuck in the joint; my PT thought it was swelling from the effusion. I spent many tiresome hours doing leg extensions into a towel or theraband, and eventually it came back - but it felt like it took forever. Don't give up on it. :) How do you do a prone hang on your stomach? (I think this might be another North America vs. UK vocabulary difference.)

Tez - I haven't tried that particular supplement; like Lottie I take something similar but with less HA. I like the look of that, so I might check it out and see if Shopper's Drug Mart (our equivalent of Boots) carries it.

Thanks to all the people and fellow kitties who sent good wishes to Mara. She actually seems to be doing a little better today; on a hunch J cut out all the food we were giving her that contained wheat about 48 hours ago, and since then her diarrhea has finally cleared up and she seems happier, though still quite weak and skinny. So it looks as though we may have a wheat intolerant kitty! When I gave her her insulin injection this morning she stretched and snuggled into my hand and was clearly happy to see me, which is a big improvement on the past week or so when she just lay there looking listless and sad.

Lottie - that's going to be a big week - my ACLr, your onions, and then Tez's ACLr (and maybe Tony's too). Glad to hear the knees are doing okay although boo hiss on the sore onions. I am envious of all of you getting together in the next little while - perhaps we should start planning a surgery class of 2010 get-together next year. I'd be happy to host in Vancouver.  ;D

I'm doing okay today; knees had a grouchy day yesterday and are a little sore this morning. Hoping a swim after work will help them. It's lunchtime here, so I'm just trying to decide whether I should be good and go to the gym or take my bike around the seawall instead. Hard to believe surgery is only just over 3 weeks away, and a week tomorrow is my last day at work until September! In fact maybe I'd better skip lunch today and try and get some of my projects a little closer to finish/handover point...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 16, 2010, 10:50:12 PM
*Snowy spam*

I just wanted to share a small milestone with you guys. At lunchtime today I went for my first run! Very short (just 5 minutes) but kept up a reasonable pace, and - touch wood - no adverse reaction from the knee beyond a bit of squeaking from the PFS. (Will be watching it carefully for the rest of the afternoon.) Running has never really been my thing, but I liked this one.  :D

Right, back to my website report...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 16, 2010, 11:50:41 PM
SNOWY  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o RUNNING OMG!

Go you! - That's so fantastic!

The hamstring doesn't hurt at all to stretch like that - it just tensions at the max point as it always has done - at which point it gets a good squeeze, relax, squeeze relax and it extends a bit more. At my best when doing a standing assisted stretch (standing with my back to the wall with someone pushing my leg up) I could get my toes within 2 inches of the wall.
I'm not giving up on the extension.... however it hasn't returned since the injury in September and has been a cause for concern since. Next OS (registrar) appointment i would really like to be able to have an intelligent (no funny remarks you lot!)  "what if" conversation to get an idea of a gameplan... even if the plan is to wait 6 months and keep doing the physio! Lottie - my NHS OS made no moves towards surgically correcting the lack of extension during ACLr.... I think he was giving Dr Condom a surgical version of the bird!

The "prone hangs" are simply lying on your tummy on the edge of your bed/sofa with your legs protruding  and letting gravity pull them down - you can add weights for a more extreme stretch.

Wicki - bad bad knees :-(( ... definitiely need the Bavarian cake and beer and rib-jenga healthy knee diet book! How long before you go beck to OS?

Good mews on Mara Snowy. We use a brilliant wheat free food by Burns for our dog - it's designed by a vet, and we believe it helped sort her ear problems which she'd had for over a year. Clever J  :D

Lottie - good the Bobs are being kind to you - shame onion can't take a leaf out of their book. Looking forward very much to your next visit - might just have to go to the Purbeck chocolate producer - Chococo -  in Swanage... they have a shop and a cafe :-)))... then more beach paddling.... and some crabbing off the pier if you like! .... then happy to come to your or Wicki for the big birthday celebration on 12th July.

A class of 2010 KG get together is a fab idea !! ... I wonder if we could get a group discount LoL.

Tony - if you read this I hope your last exams go well. It's such an exciting time for you!

I just tried to watch the next episode of Luther on iplayer - there isn't one. Gutted :-(.

That's all for  now - I shall go to bed wishing you all trouble free knees - or at the very least, sweet dreams... especially CathyD and her new ACL.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kcknee on June 17, 2010, 02:32:08 AM
I would have loved that hamstring stretching machine back when I was still new to PT and not so numb as I am now to all the manhandling involved. My PT's office only has the basic PT equipment - bike, elliptical, leg press/curl /extension machines and the bosu, bands and blocks for strengthening. There are weight benches and a weight machine for the personal trainer's clients. The majority of the hour long sessions are on the tables with hands on stretching by the PT. I'm not a touchy person and it was hard to relax and get used to someone grabbing and massaging your knee/leg at first.

That hamstring stretch is done with your foot up on the PT's shoulder as he rotates your leg out and pushes your extended leg back towards your head and then makes you press down into his shoulder. I don't even care or really notice what he does anymore. I let him do whatever he wants and just wait for the pain to be over.  He's had lots of bizarre stretching moves for my hip and the muscle in the front of the thigh as he keeps coming up with new ideas on what might help with my extension. I really don't think my leg used to stretch pre-injury as far as he's forced it to go. That's one of the reasons that I'm not sure if any extension I'm gaining now is real or just from all his stretching. In the months after my injury, he used to keep stretching my stuck ACL stump out so much that I would be able temporarily to sit fully back on my heels and extend my leg fully in between PT appointments before my OS diagnosed me correctly and removed my ACL in the first surgery.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 17, 2010, 08:20:41 AM
Hey all!

Snowy - great news on the jogging!  Not my bag either but it would be so nice to at least be able and have the option to run for a train!

Cosmic - I am not sure how the eat and drink as much as you like diet works - maybe my body was just pleased at having booze and something other than salad and responded favourably or all that rib jenga protein!
No appointment to see OS again, just depends how the 3 months of 'reduced activity' (I can't really call it rest) goes! Saw him last on 20 May (so what 4 weeks?)  I still can't kneel with any force on the knee, nor can I do a quad stretch - I tried to look at my heel the other day while standing and it hurt like...Neither of these things are normal, just depends whether more surgery to deal with the pesky lesion will return my knee to normality for the remaining 40 years of my life  ::)  It is also swollen and reacts badly to more active pursuits.  I managed 15 minutes on the bike on level 6 before it hurt a lot yesterday.  I realise I shouldn't be cycling but I need to know I can - not being able to ride without an adverse reaction won't be acceptable for me :(  It just seems to flare, whether this would stop with better rest, who knows?

I hope you get the extension sorted soon :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Mike Hough on June 17, 2010, 09:31:32 AM
Hi Cosmic,

Long slow rehab is the way it goes now. I'm finding a fair bit of variability with generally two steps forward, one step back. I'm told that hydrotherapy tends to accelerate progress - are you lined up for that?
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 17, 2010, 11:00:47 AM
Hi Mike - No hydrotherapy mentioned - the only mention of a pool is that that the PT's  directive is that no swimming is allowed (I'm essentially a non swimmer and it's my least natural environment..... although to swim in Snowy's pool in Vancouver I might be tempted to have an attitude adjustment!). Thanks for the two forward, one back..... sometime's it's hard to keep expectations realistic and no matter how many times I've heard it and told it to myself I keep needing to hear it!±

Is there anything specific you'd recommend hydro-wise that's helped you - I may just have to blow the cobwebs off the swimming costume!

KC - The PT I get is the opposite to yours  - hands off. The stretchy machine is at my local sports centre - just a mile down the road compared to 6 to the hospital gym. It was revamped 18 months ago - from a little shoebox room with no natural light or air circulation and a few scabby machines to a state of the art techno-gym with a fine view of the Purbeck Hills. I'm not a big gym fan, but it has been so lovely to have such a superb facility so close. I've been a member there since the revamp, and the staff there have designed me programmes to suit through my injury time. There is also an indoor pool there but it's closed for refurb at the moment.... maybe a good time to get in there when it re-opens as it's all included in my monthly membership!

Your PT sounds like one of our Taekwon Do stretching classes LoL!

Wicki - I don't blame you for getting back on the bike - I'd be exactly the same. I find knowing knee boundaries really hard - as Mike says "two steps forward one step back" .... each day I find  I can do things I couldn't the day before, but also that I can't do things I could do yesterday.... so each day is a journey of knee re-discovery. Just be careful (but you know that!)

Happy sunny days

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 17, 2010, 04:34:55 PM
***** Lottie Spam *****

The right onion is booked for the 14th July.  :o :o :o ::)  *terrified*

I spent 20 minutes walking around the shops today after a work appoinment, in sensible boots (great for the summer!!) and within 10 minutes my toe was stabbing, the foot is swollen and I have nerve tingling all up the top and side of the foot where it is clearly being stressed. So - it can't really make it worse. I am emailing my chopper some questions re options in the surgery and rehab, and its all go. I hapened across a woman in John Lewis with a big ortho shoe on - 3 weeks post onion surgery. On one crutch and looking quite happy....

Cosmic and Wicki - on the 12th I will be in a state of terror and eating puds like there is no tomorrow.  8)

Cosmic - crabbing off the pier?!!!  :o  You want Bob and the onions to shuffle sideways and fling themselves in to the ocean?!!!!  :o ;D

So...mid July is going to be one busy time for us all!!

Snowy - good work on the jog. I find even a slow jog affects the PFS now, I can feel it all grating about in there.  :'(

Wicki - know your limits. You're no spring chicken, just accept you can't kneel, jog, walk, bike... ::) :P  Seriously,  I suspect as I get off the crutches you might be borrowing them.... :'(  Poor Neelie, she is a *****.

Happy knee days everyone, me and my onions are heading for a sunny seat and a foot spa.  8)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 17, 2010, 07:00:07 PM
My darling husband unplugged my laptop just as I was posting a message here :'( :'( he though it was Steph straightners so he said
so shall try and remember what I had posted ::)
Cosmic lovely well exacuted hammie stretch and the op leg really looks pretty close to straight in the photo so go girl, also the fact that you feel your walking and gait has improved must make you feel as if things are improving a bit, I guess even the rehab is a lesson in patients, your gym sound brill our local one is a bit iffy more like the way yours was befor the refit will have to find a good one for after the recon.
Lottie your onion chopping will be right in between Snowy's and my ops so we can all have a wee moan together :P
Sorry your still in painbut at least it proves you really need to get the op, when pain is stopping you doing normal day to day things like walking round the shops you know its time to get it sorted. So when is the next great adventure of the terrible trio [new name for Emma Sue and Vicky] cos even though I am too far away to join in I look forward to hearing the tales of what you crowd get up to.
Vicky sorry the knee is not feeling any better maybe it need time to recover from all that walking while on holiday I hope it improves soon.
Snowy how is Mara doing I hope she's still getting better I can tell how much you two love both your kittys just by the way you talk of them. as for runing you are a brave girl dont think I could bring myself to try  anytime soon I really hope you dont have any adverse reactions to the run and your knee behaves.
Take care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 17, 2010, 09:49:59 PM
Well, the jogging was a sort-of success - not a twinge out of the ACL site, but the PFS grumbled all night and both knees are cranky today. I'm leaning toward the painkillers but trying to hold off until my afternoon meetings are done...

Vickster - the running was at my PT's instigation...I haven't run regularly since my injury 4 years ago (too painful since then) and to be honest it's never been an activity I enjoyed, unless it was chasing a soccer ball or a frisbee (hmm...perhaps I was a dog in a past life.) But it would be nice to be able to run for the elevator at work every now and again. :) I'm sorry the cycling didn't work out so well. Is the doctor hopeful that you'll be able to cycle regularly again at some point in the not-too-distant future?

KCknee - your PT sounds incredibly hands-on. Mine's done a bit of that kind of work, along with the ultrasound and IMS, but is generally not too hands on - we focus more on the kinds of exercises I should be doing, checking exercise form, etc. Every PT seems to be different in terms of how they like to approach specific issues.

Cosmic - my PT was suggesting that once my knee is up to it post-surgery, just walking up and down in the pool is great for rehab. The water provides resistance (you can vary it by going deeper or shallower) and the leg is supported, so you're not going to hurt yourself. Might be worth venturing into the water to see if it works. :)

Lottie - congrats on getting the onion chopping booked! I have every sympathy with your terror, but it *will* be worth it once you're able to move without onion pain. I hope you're managing to rest them this evening, and they're starting to settle down now...

Tez - Mara is still having a few digestive issues, but seems a lot happier in herself. We hope she'll continue to get better. They're such awesome little cats - we call Mara the little nursecat because whenever one of us is ill, she'll sit by their head and watch over them. When my knee was really bad post-injury, Laya used to come and snuggle up beside it on the chair where I had it propped. purr therapy. :)

Oops - lunchbreak over. I need extra time to get to my next meeting, as our elevator has been broken for the past 24 hours so I have to take the stairs up to the 7th floor...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 18, 2010, 09:17:30 AM
Woooo, it's Friday ... been a tough week back at work after holiday, trying to focus again!  Not slept well this week, a) it's summer, so lighter and warmer and I always sleep like rubbish b) knee niggly at night, when I lie on it, used to be fine c) going to bed to late as hooked on Bejewelled Blitz on FB - I am squarely blaming Lottie for introducing me to this waste of time!!  ;D

Knee was really sore at work yesterday, again laterally especially .  I don't think it can be a reaction to the gentle cycle in the gym surely?  Possibly, the fact I am again more sedentary at work or indeed, that I am not taking drugs again  ???  4 weeks of 'reduced activity' (in the gym at least) and to be honest, not noticed a lot of benefit, despite stopping all road cycling, rowing, stepping, XT and only minimal lower resitatce stationary biking   >:(

I am going to chop my lovely Mini in for an automatic (at least a quick one) as driving more and the clutch is aggravating Neelie too

12th July - well it will be my birthday so I will definitely have pud and expect Lottie and Cosmic (whose birthday we will also be celebrating) to join me!

Tez - have a fab holiday

Cosmic - keep up the good work

Lottie - good luck for the onion dicing, I know how much you are looking forward to spending the summer in a super sexy boot  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Mike Hough on June 18, 2010, 03:29:36 PM
No reccomendations for hydrotherapy as I haven't had my first session yet!  I think the idea is walking and jogging in the water, rather than actual swimming. The support from the water helps you to do very low-impact but energetic motions, which also helps when they put you on the treadmill after 12 weeks and say 'run!'   
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 18, 2010, 04:57:17 PM
Mike - The word "run" just does not compute at the moment ... but then neither did walking without crutches 4 weeks ago  ;)

My youths and I went for a short week break to Glastonbury 8 weeks after my last scope - there was a lovely indoor pool at the holiday cottage so I did some jogging and general leg waving in the pool there - doesn't gravity suck when you get out!

I will take your advice and investigate the local hotel spa pool, which is smaller and quieter and generally less intimidating for someone as aquatically challenged as me.

Vicks - glad you made it through your first week back - bizarre how the knee doesn't seem to react as expected, it would be so good to pinpoint the triggers. Telling you what I've been told - 4 weeks of relative inactivity (apart form the bike at the gym and the walking holiday ;-) ) is just a drop in the ocean - these things take time (I must learn to listen to my own advice!). Sad the mini is going, but auto's do make the job of driving a pleasure rather than a chore - I thought when you said you were going to chop it that you were making it into a convertible!!

Kristin - how are you doing?

Day .... errmmmm .... about 4.5 weeks ....

Had a crap knee day yesterday - it's about time really so I can't complain... if you've ever watched "The Mummy" then just think of the scarab beetle and you've got the picture - I think one had taken lodgings under my scar and kneecap  -  I battened down the hatches and slept on the sofa in the evening whilst the corn-fed chicken burnt in the oven  :-\.
During the day we had taken the dog to a lovely clear shallow ford near a rather good tea shop - lavender cake with elderflower presse  ;D .  The ford is very shallow and has a long footbridge over it, perfect for standing on and throwing a ball into the water for the dog to chase, a knee friedly dog exhausting (and cleansing) experience.
All in all not bad for a crap day.

Good news about CathyD's non ACLr scope  - if you're looking in on this post Cathy here's to a rapid recovery xx ;D ;D ;D

Love to y'all

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 18, 2010, 06:27:34 PM
Oh, boo for bad knee days. :( I guess the consolation is that it's the first one in a while. What sort of dog is your pup?

Will keep my fingers crossed that tomorrow is a much better day. Will be interested to hear how the experiments at hydrotherapy go. My PT recommended walking around in the pool after my injury but I could never stop myself splashing down into swimming mode. :)

Vickster - I definitely find that my knee hurts more when I'm at work stuck in sedentary meetings than it does when I'm out and about and keeping it moving, so maybe that's it? Perhaps Neelie got used to all those lovely Budapest hills and is saddened by being back in an office environment. That's too bad about the car, but the benefits of an automatic for a bad knee are tremendous - I used to grumble about my truck being an auto (I prefer driving stick) but am now incredibly grateful to have it. Trading cars with a coworker for a weekend was enough to convince me that clutches and bad left knees do not make a good combination.

My knees are still sulking after the running experiment...I'm icing again (first time in ages) and had to take some Naproxen yesterday after a spell of five whole days with no painkillers of any kind. We were hoping to hit up the Grouse Grind tomorrow, but I'll have to see how things are feeling. This time in three weeks I'll be in Delta Hospital having my shiny new ACL fitted...eep!

Well, back to my work day - I'm working on an inflammatory report (much better than inflammatory knees) that I've been saving as a Friday treat. If I can make enough progress on it, I might be able to catch the second half of the football at lunchtime.  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 18, 2010, 06:29:53 PM
Greetings all,

Cosmic, sorry you had a scarab beetle day. Boo. :-( Perhaps its healing up?! Or perhaps you do have a scarab beetle? Wow - forget the discomfort, Dorset's first scarab beetle in knee will make you loads of cash!!  :P ;D  Hopefully today has been a better better knee day. I am looking forward to Choccoco and crabbing my onions off the pier, before one of them goes into the surgical bin!!

Vicks - sounds the potential car change is good....great engine in the 2.0T GTis, we'll be able to have DSG VW races....(I'll win  ;)).

Kristin, saw your fb updates, sounds like the knee is doing OK, great that you can swim again. I am also aquatically challenged and find that i have little confidence in actually walking about and to the pool, let alone being in it as the knees feel so kind of "off" and I simply terrified of slipping and twisting or smacking the wounded kneecaps on the ground.....

Snowy - good news that the kitty makes progress, all paws are crossed here. Lottie has just about recocered from Richard slamming the end of her tail in the door this morning.... :o  poor mog, she made such an awful noise. I can only imagine its like trapping your fingers in the car door.

My right foot has been simply so painful since about 20 minutes of walking yesterday, it is horrible and is making the right knee also feel really clicky and unstable as I am obviously not using my foot properly. Sooner its done, the better.

England match tonight - joy! :o

Midsomer Murders around by us, police have found a body down the lane into the village and its all cordoned off with lights, toilet and 24/7 police guard.  :(

Edit, it is this:

How sad. 24 years old. Not much of a life.  :(

Happy knees everyone, hope you're all doing OK.....its raining here. Booo!

Lottie xxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 18, 2010, 07:34:20 PM
good evening all
we have had another lovely sunny day today it's warm and dry and sooo not like our weather ??? whats up with that..
Cosmic sorry your having a bad knee day or yesterday I shoud say cos I hope today it feels better.
My knee has been really stiff today it kept me up for a while last night and has been a bit uncomfortable all day at work ,,but I only have a half day to work tomorrow then I'm off for a week and a couple of days yipeeee.I havent really been looking forward to this holiday the way I usually do and couldnt work out why but I think its this whole knee thing, I had a kinda hard time last year when we flew to Vegas with the stiffness and pain in my knee and my knee was in much better shape then than it is now the bright side of things is that Spain in only 2 -3 hours away compared to 10 hours to Vegas so maybe it will be ok anyway moan over ::) sorry for that.
I hope everyone has a good weekend
Take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 19, 2010, 04:43:01 AM
Lottie - that is horribly sad. :( It always brings it home when the news turns up at your door like that.

Mara and Laya send purrs to poor tail-squished Lottie-mog...Mara isn't completely over her digestive problems yet, but she seems happier and she had enough spark to get really mad when J brought her in off the deck earlier. That's a good sign. :)

The England match...oh dear oh dear. Not sure what I can say that we haven't already said on Facebook, but the performance was so lame that it made me rather glad not to be English anymore! I'd put $20 on Wednesday being their last action in the World Cup, but I don't think anyone would want to bet against me.

The knees...ack...not such a good day. Starting to really regret that 5 minute run, even though my PT was keen for me to try it. I gave up running completely after my last knee injury 4 years ago because it aggravated the PFS so much, and it's set both knees off horribly. The bad one has been stiff and sore, and the good one has just been sore; it's been a fairly grim couple of days, and particularly frustrating as I'd finally settled the PFS down following the last flareup. I went for a swim this evening and the left knee loosened up while I was in the pool, but once I got out it was straight back to the burning/swarm of hornets sensation. I'm mad at myself because I knew that running's not a good idea for me at the best of times, and especially not when both knees are in a highly sensitive state because of all the extra leg work I've been doing since the ACL injury. I think my PT was overly optimistic suggesting it; I probably should have been more insistent that it wasn't a good plan. Although it didn't seem to bother the ACL injury site, which I guess is something.

Giving in and taking one of the heavy-duty painkillers...sigh.  :-\ Hope I've got the quota of knee pain for the gang, and you guys are having better knee nights than me.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 19, 2010, 09:34:07 AM
Ugh - Snowy - your twin knees understand the swarm of hornets feeling. It is SO frustrating to get a flare up under control and then trigger it, especialy if you know what did it. I did the same a while back - was on a spin bike and stupidly tried some hills and standing up stuff. Fine at the time, next day and for 3 days afterwards the knees hated me. i shan't do that again. It is so frustrating, you feel like you should cope with such simple stuff so easily, like a 5 minute jog. i did some really short jogs a month or so ago and during the short jogs both knees felt uncomfortable, like they were grating, and I was glad I only had such a limited bit to do (was covering a boot camp class for a friend of mine - silly plan!) and thankfully they didn't flare afterwards. Hopefully they'll settle again now, sometimes strong painkillers are needed to just take the pain down and let them behave again.

Football was shocking, Boris could do better with his extra cat toes and passion for bats.  ::)  Lottie's tail seems OK, she has had a tin of tuna all to herself over the past 24 hours so she is very happy....

Right, time for the gym for me, husband is off golfing so its gym, shower, then meet him for coffee this afternoon. Onions not too bad so far, right knee is cracking like mad as it clearly is geting annoyed by the dodgy gait due to the stiff onion. 3.5 weeks and onion begone!

Tez - nearly time for holibags!!! Have a fab time! We'll miss you!!  8)

Hugs to all

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 19, 2010, 07:13:20 PM
Well, deposit paid on a rather nice blue 3 door Golf GTI  DSG  - quick and comfy ;D  Just need to sell the Mini ! Major hike across London to the dealer on many trains and tubes.  Driving would have been horrible though!  Even managed a short skippy-hoppy run for the train, must look a right wally! 
Been to the gym, 15 minutes on bike, knee not happy...bah...going to have to stop I fear.  Very annoying that any cycling annoys the lesion...seems we all manage to irritate our joints with even the simplest and smallest change in exercise  :(

Lottie - I am sure your onion "prosthesis" will be fine - not sure why they have used the word given the definition below...Typo ???
Prosthesis: An artificial substitute or replacement of a part of the body such as a tooth, eye, a facial bone, the palate, a hip, a knee or another joint, the leg, an arm, etc. A prosthesis is designed for functional or cosmetic reasons or both.

Maybe he plans to do a bogof and replace Bob while you are under  :o

Tez - how's the packing going?

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 19, 2010, 07:40:28 PM
Wicki - Welcome to the world of crip-dom DSG Auto VW cars!!!  :-* ;D ;D ;D

Can we race? Can we?????  8) :o

Yes - indeed, why does my onion quote have a section that says "Prosthesis - dependant on size between £800 and 1500" WTF?!!!! Is he giving me a fake toe? Will it be green? Shiny? I MUST check as I don't want a big toe joint replacement - fraught with problems and only last about 2 years. The op is described as a fusion - so whats the false bit? My only thoughts are that it refers to the hardware (2 pins and a plate) - but by god, if it does, I'll suggest he pops to Wickes and gets some light weight nails - about 31p. If he replaces Bob whilst I'm out I will be quite upset!!!

Have emailed his secretary to ask. And sent him lots of questions for her to pass on - including - when can I go back to the gym, can I do a plank pose and push ups with a fused big toe, can I do Pilates, can you try not to fuse it please, can I take the boot off to sleep in, etc etc...poor man.  ::) :P


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 19, 2010, 08:45:02 PM
congrats on the new car Vicky it sounds pretty cool and a little on the speedy side ;D just the way I like them
Its such a shame that the one excersise you love to do more than anything is the one that causes your knee so much pain its just not the way things should be :(
Packing is not going too well my things and Dougies things are sorted all ironed and folded the kids on the other hand are still not quite getting the fact that if they dont look out their stuff they will not have anything to wear on holiday, but I have decided its not worth my getting stressed  about, they're both adults [well nearly]  and its up to them.
Lottie good idea e,mailing the surgeons secretary just to put you mind at rest that he dosen't plan on giving you a hairy hobbit foot in place of the onion.. :P how are you feeling about the upcoming op, are you still a little freaked out and if so is there anything I could do or say to make you feel better about it. hopefully you can keep busy to keep your mind off what lies ahead
Snowy dont think you should be attempting another run anytime soon if thats the reaction you are getting, it would apear that swimmming ad cycling are much more beificial to you.. Hows the coffee detox going?? hope it not too bad ::)
Cosmic how are things with you? do you still have Mr Cosmic home? I hope you two are making the best of your time together, I suppose you are used to him not being around all the time but it must be pretty hard on you sometimes especially with the kids,
thats another reason why I think you are such an amazing person, you never seem to let things get you down.

Take care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 19, 2010, 10:12:15 PM
Vickster - nice choice! Good luck getting the Mini sold. Hopefully you won't have too much trouble; they're certainly super-popular here.

Lottie -  it's amazing what can be described as a prosthesis. In the States, the insurance companies reimburse SynVisc injections (HA) for the knee under the prosthetics category; I guess technically it is fake synovial fluid, but still, that seems like a stretch. I'm sure Bob will come out of the onion-chopping intact. :) It's weird how some stuff irritates the PFS, and other things are just fine; I can cycle up and down steep hills for four straight hours and not have a problem (in fact the knee felt better afterwards), but one five-minute run and they're completely gimped again.

Tez - that sounds like a good plan. Make sure your stuff is all packed and on the kids' own heads be it if they don't bring everything they need. I'm sure you'll have a fantastic time in the sun regardless, though I'm not quite sure what we're all going to do without you on the boards while you're away.

We've had a busy morning here - went to Can Tire and London Drugs for the first of our big pre-surgery shops. Bought a new outdoor chair for my "rehab corner" on the lower deck, all kinds of dirt and flowerpots for summer repotting, and two new office chairs to replace the wobbly old ones. (I actually once fell off one of the old chairs and broke two ribs while hanging Christmas decorations. Not one of my finest moments.) I also had a mad retail therapy moment and treated myself to a completely unnecessary toy that will make the post-surgery period a whole lot more fun - an iPad. It meant breaking my cardinal rule of never buying 1st gen tech products, but I was just about to fork out the same amount of money for Apple TV and an ereader and then realised that the iPad will do both those things and surf the net as well. Now I've had a chance to play with it we've definitely bonded, and I think it will be way more convenient than my laptop while I'm recovering.

Knees have settled a bit with a hefty dose of naproxen, but I'm still getting a lot of anterior pain and the bad one (who shall henceforth be known as Gimpy) is still quite stiff. Fortunately it's a nice day for a long swim later. :) From Gimpy's reaction, I'm actually wondering if the bone bruising isn't quite as healed as I thought it was. Given that I'm only just over 3 months post-injury, I guess that's quite possible.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 20, 2010, 09:02:00 PM
Hello world!

How is everyone? Cosmic, how are things? How is the extension and the resident scarab beetle? Hope your gimpy day has now passed by!

Tez - methinks you've jetted off now?! 8)

Wicki - on a bike???! How far?!! How is Neelie?!! :o

Snowy - boo hiss to the anterior knee pain. I am amazed at how much my residual tooth ache has reduced since my steroid jab for hay fever. I shall be looking into them for the knees when this wears off, although I always resisted them into the joint. However, it is far less invasive than someone trying to replace my kneecaps! Hoping Gimpy has settled down over the weekend and liked the swim. not long now for us both -  under 3 weeks, and 3 weeks plus 2 days...I am both excited and scared. I stupidly found a photo of a foot with the scars and swelling post onion - eeeek!!! I'll be Frankenstein Foot - will sure have some good scars I think.

Been sunny here, sat in the sun and gone a bit pinky brown. I'll be getting a decent colour on my top half and still lily white on Bob and the onions. Perhaps I'll need to bask them in their post surgery special boot. Wonder if they do it in pink?

Hugs to all

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 20, 2010, 10:21:47 PM
Hellooooo LottiefocBobOnions and the rest of the World....

Stumpy Knee is  .... I dunno really.....just kinda in this seeming status quo ..... the scarabs have reduced from their marathon munch to a quiet nibble with the occasional exceptionally tasty morsel (ouch) ...

I helped at our local area TKD/KB grading today - Ele got her last but one belt before black belt in KB, and my friend who is half way through chemo for lymphoma got a distinction pass at the same level :-).  It was funny as he is losing his hair (he has a fab sense of humour) - everytime he rubbed off the sweat with his towel a clump of chest hair came away too :-). Life can be so much easier when you are surrounded by ordinary people doing extra-ordinary things.

One of the other instructors there wrecked his knee several years ago at a demo doing a flying side kick over several of his students who were lying on the ground. He knew the jump hadn't gone well and should have aborted the kick, but executed it anyway.... he landed trailing his leg and took his knee out sideways..... he had ligament recon and was on crutches for 10 weeks, so was a little surprised to see me walking without after 4!
He has recommended a private PT who specialises in knee rehab.... may be worth a ring me thinks.

I feel like I'm in a big comfort zone - that I should be trying to do more. In reality I think I'm doing all I should be and SHOULDN'T be considering more.......... which comes to a conversation today with our TKD Master... who is doing Lands End to John o' Groats next March sponsored for 3 charities.... I've already been looking at distance cycle rides in the autumn.... just as a target, you know, something to keep me focussed ..... perhaps just to join one or two stages with Master G ....and have ordered a Cycleops turbo trainer to arrive for my bike so I can use my road bike for rehab at home. Realistic or just plain stupid  :P?

Mr Cosmic has returned to Nigeria tonight .... it'll take the kids a couple of weeks to readjust - Cameron usually has an attitude shift (to the less favourable) for a time ... usually their downs don't correspond so I can deal with one and then the other!
Ele had her hair cut yesterday - she is 12 and has always had waist long hair .... it's now just past her shoulders........ Tez I'm so impressed at the courage you hairdressers have - I was watching, have always said it's her hair so she can do what she wants within reason .... but my heart was racing. It looks lovely, much more in proportion (her hair is very very thick!) and she looks less like my little girl!

...trying to post hairy pictures but it doesn't like .jpeg files - gota drop son's friend home, will try later..


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 20, 2010, 11:17:53 PM
Just for you Tez.....
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 20, 2010, 11:32:02 PM
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh wowsers!!!!

Hair just past shoulders?!!! Wow!! I can't wait to see it! She has STUNNING hair - whatever the length, I know it was the first thing I noticed. Bet she looks more grown up doesn't she? Scary!  :o :D

So.....yours next then?!  :P :-* ;D

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 20, 2010, 11:38:26 PM
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 20, 2010, 11:56:52 PM
Evening all I tried to post a reply at the same time as either Lottie or Cosmic and I lost the whole post so will try again
Holiday prep is getting there, tomorrow I have to pack the rest of the cases, clean the house, pick up prescriptions, check on and clean Mums flat, cut Stephs hair, [cos she cant possibly go on holiday without having her hair cut] drop the dog off at the dog sitter, shave all parts of the bod not usualy seen :-[ paint toenails  oh and charge u phone i.pod mp3 camera etc I think thats it any suggestions of what I may have forgoten let me know. Flight is 6am Tue so early start >:(
Cosmic I think you are coming alone really well off crutches at 4 or was it 3 weeks is fantastic I just read Peter's post and he was on them for I think he said 10 weeks and is now moved onto a stick a few other people have posted the same thing so you my dear are doing great. You must be so proud of Ele getting her belt today it is so nice you all have the same hobbie or should I say passion it seems to be a very supportive group. as for her hair it was beautiful and I'm sure it is even more beautiful now its cut a wee photo of the new style  would be nice :) I always think when a girl gets a dramatic change like that they do look so much more grown up.
Lottie Snowy and Vicky I hope you are all behaving and the Knees, onions, cats , and dogs are also behaving also.
Not sure if I mentioned it but I  am going away on holiday to Spain for a week 8) 8) 8) 8)
Will prolly be around tomorrow then bye bye so take care everyone
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 20, 2010, 11:58:54 PM
cosmic you must be a mind reader her new hair is fantastic what a pretty girl :) :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 21, 2010, 12:04:29 AM
Tez - have a fab holibags, we'll miss you on the forum.... and thanks for your lovely comments ... especially:

"Cosmic how are things with you? do you still have Mr Cosmic home? I hope you two are making the best of your time together, I suppose you are used to him not being around all the time but it must be pretty hard on you sometimes especially with the kids,
thats another reason why I think you are such an amazing person, you never seem to let things get you down.

Honestly? - it took me aback a little ... I had a tear in my eye and a lump in my throat (just as well it wasn't the other way around!).

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 21, 2010, 02:26:49 AM
Cosmic I just say what I see or see what I say or something like that ;D ;D
a little depressed now noticed my name on the upcoming birthdays an that number 49 looked as if it was jumping off the screen what a horrid age to be turning I have been more thinking about turning 50 next year didn't give 49 a thought untill now..Oh dear maybe its time to get rid of the spikey hair and put away the short skirts and get into the sensible shoes well actually that one has already happened [thanks knee] time to start acting like an adult!!!! or maybe not..   
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 21, 2010, 05:36:13 AM
Cosmic - love your daughter's new haircut - her hair was incredible before, but it does look much more grownup now.

Is the holding pattern for Stumpy Knee a good place or a bad place? If it's doing everything it's meant to be doing without too much complaining, I hope that's good.

Lottie - if you're feeling really brave, you could Google videos of the operation. I did that with the ACLr and oddly I ended up being glad I had (even though it made me cringe a bit the first time I watched it) as it gave me a much better sense of what will be happening to me. Then again, you might dismiss this as the suggestion of a madwoman, the view of most of my friends!

Tez - age is just a number - don't you dare ditch the spiky hair and short skirts! ;) Glad to hear all the packing's going well, and I hope you guys have a wonderful wonderful time.

The news from my end isn't good, sadly. Mara, our poorly kitty, had a massive seizure and is in Animal Emergency. The vet wouldn't give us a definite prognosis given the complicating factors of Mara's age, diabetes and the risk of brain damage from the seizures, but did warn us that the outlook isn't that great. She's stable for the time being and will be closely monitored overnight, and they'll give her cognition tests tomorrow to see how she responds. We're both at home worrying quietly tonight.   :'(
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on June 21, 2010, 12:12:40 PM
Snowy sending hugs and kitty prayers your way! Hope you've gotten some (good) news.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 21, 2010, 12:31:45 PM
Snowy ((((hugs))))) for you and Jen I hope Mara pulls through its scary when you dont know what will happen cos theyre just like a member of the family.
Must be something in the air I had to take Misty to the vet today seems my poor pup has arthritis she has been limping around since Satuday but she has a habit of licking her paws untill she makes them sore and I thought that was the problem again so I put on her wee socks as I usually do but the limp got worse so as we are going away thought I had better take her in, so now poor Misty is on metacalm and I have to try and get her weight down a bit, so I guess we are both old crocks now
Take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 21, 2010, 02:18:39 PM
Woo sends stripy and hairy "get well soon" love to Mara x

And to Misty as well :)

I confess to having gone for a short 5 miles cycle yesterday as the weather was nice - took it slow, about 25 minutes (although I did keep getting caught by lights) and didn't do a very hilly circuit.  Just been to the gym too, 10 mins on the static bike which was ok (although the knee feels rather crackly and not smooth while pedalling).  I also had a 1min jog on the treadmill at 7kmh (so not exactly sprinting) - that was less successful, knee felt horrid, tight and crampy very quickly.  I seem to have more medial than lateral pain right now, wretched joint can't make up its mind.  The right one seems niggly too  ::)  I have been mentioning around the office that I may need more time off in the autumn - seemingly not an issue - I am allowed up to 16 sick weeks a year and that's August - August so no issue.  Would want to wait until September before doing anything else anyhow as that is the renewal time for my private HC (restart for physio etc)

Lottie - do you really want to watch a vid of the onion op - use of saws, drills and meccano!  :o  Remember what my colleague said about the sound being the worst thing (local anaesthetic)

Tez - hope you are all eready for hols - have a fantastic time!

Cosmic - Ele's hair looks great!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 21, 2010, 02:49:25 PM
Snowy - I hope Mara is comfortable and Lottie and Boris send furry hugs too. It is so awful when they are ill, you just feel so helpless and don't want them to be in any pain. I know the vet always looks after them - in many ways animal hospitals seem better than our human ones!! I hope she is OK, and you get some good news. Ditto licks and hugs to Misty, I can empathise with the arthritis pain - I am convinced that some shots of Metacam would sort my joints out, our cats are always mega happy after they've had a dose!

I don't think I'll watch a video - my onion OS - Mr Tory-Boy-911-wasoncefitbutallabitsaggynow-topfootman - showed me some still of the operation during our consultation. He has a big section for teaching on his website and it shows the procedure. For anyone really keen click here:

I warn you there are some gruesome images, and I did feel a bit yukcy, but then again it is only flesh and blood. Its the screws that get me - like countersinking something and making a flat pack bit of furniture. You can also see a picture of Mr ToryBoy-Onion man but it was clearly taken a few years back and probably air brushed - like those internet dating sites when the reality doesn't quite match up. However, I am not intending to shag him, so I merely want him to be good with his tools - of the surgical kind!!  ::) :P  The onion is SO painful today, and thats after 90 mins in the gym and a short gimp across a car park to get an iced coffee and lunch at the services on the way home. It is time for it to be done. I fear that if it is fused I will be limited in shoe choice - but I am now, incredibly so because of the pain and stiffness. I am looking at MBTs as they provide that rock motion and they also have some very funky styles. Not cheap, but I think they could be the way forwards both pre and post surgery. Going to try some tomorrow I hope.  8)

Cosmic - Ele looks like a young lady. I think some special girl pampering treats might be in order for my next visit.  ;D

Tez - are you packed? I want to say something to you. First thing - I completely agree with your comment on Cosmic. She has been my rock when my knees started playing up last year. Fidning her and then the rest of you gang has got me through the low times. As I've said, I wouldn't choose to have crap knees, but without them I wouldn't have made real life friends with Cosmic and Vicks, and all you other lovely virtual people. Truly - it is amazing what the internet can do. Right - second thing. I KNOW you're scared about the op - same here for mine. BUT - on your holibags I want you to a mental imagery thing. I want to box up your fear and worry and op thoughts and put them mentally into a box. A pretty box, in your fave colours and tied up with lovely ribbons. s**t the lid, tie it up and put it in a corner of your mind. That way, when you're on holiday you know the thought is still there but its packed away and not to be taken out on holidays. Being scared is normal, it would be weird not to be. But mentally box it, leave it alone and relax. I do this kind of imagery with things and it does help - you can tell I'm a bloody psychologist can't you!!!  :P ::)

Vicks - have you given up on the resting idea? Don't jog though!! It'll just make the lesion sorer! I'd be the same with wanting to cycle/gym stuff. it is going to kill me after onion op. I'm writing a list of things I should be able to do with my foot in a huge bandage!  If you have MACI you'll have to follow the rehab protocol though - to the letter. Everything I read and those people with god outcomes err on the side of caution rather than pushing...... :-\ :(

Gosh what an essay.

Where's my ice pack? Need to get a cryo cuff sleeve for the foot.....

Hugs to all xxx

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 21, 2010, 03:06:05 PM
I'm too sexy for my Podalux..... :o
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 21, 2010, 04:29:52 PM
Oooh that's lush  :D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on June 21, 2010, 05:36:54 PM
sexy momma!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 21, 2010, 06:16:59 PM
Need to email Mr Onionchopsawpinporschesmoothmysuitisabittightgivemeyourtoesnow Surgeon and ask if they do that thing in pink.

I can't wear dismal grey and black for 5 weeks!!  ::) :o :o :'(

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 21, 2010, 06:25:35 PM
Well the cases are packed, the dog is with the sitter, the house is clean, Mums house is clean, the beds are all clean and fresh for coming home, the fridge has been scrubbed to within an inch of its life and all that need's to happen now is for  Steph to have the tearfull fairwell with the boyfriend.... why is going on holiday so stressful????

Lottie I am going to try and do as you say and put the whole drilling and chopping thing out of my mind there will be enough time to worry and get sorted for surgery when I get home, I agree with you about the support on here even though I am too far away to go on your jaunts in person I get a kick out of hearing about them and seeing the photos, you crowd have kept me sane through all of this so thank you all Cosmic, Lottie, Snowy, Vicky, Kris  and we certanly cant forget my bestest  bud  and E Son Tony

I hope you all behave while I'm away [I'm going to Spain in case I forgot to tell you 8) ;D :P] And I really hope the knees and onions behave..Also Snowy I realy hope all is well with Mara.
Take care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 21, 2010, 06:28:31 PM
I really think you ought to get a  matching pair!!!

Spooky co-incidence - took my Dad out to one of our regular lunch venues today - spent the entire time feeling like someone was eyeballing me - turns out it was my hug-buddy Em who had her left ACLr Hammy the same time as me, and ended up on the overnight ward too. We've exchanged a few texts but it was lovely to see her. Just to show how different post-op protocols are - same op, same knee, same day, same surgeon, same PT department and she is on one crutch until next week.... and still not allowed to drive her manual car (nearly 5 weeks). Another coffee and cake session booked in the diary  ;D .

I've booked my appointment for next Monday with the private PT recommended to me yesterday. He was an NHS PT so is aware of the limitations the of the service so it should be interesting to see what he has to say.
Their website makes interesting reading.

EmBob you need to get those onions housetrained .... I think a session with Cesar Milan would do the trick. LoL about watching surgery online - I watched the hammy ACLr - didn't think I was too fazed by it until I looked at my feet and realised my toes were curled tight!! You caught me unawares again with your Dr Tory-Boyslightlysaggyjustaswellnotgonashaghim comments - I guffawed - loudly, suddenly and uncontrollably....

Snowy - still thinking of you Jen and Mara - it's so hard as your pet family get on in years..... Mara couldn't wish for more devoted owners/parents/people pets (coz really they are the owners and we are the pets).  :-*

Tez - you're a-leaving    on a jet plane  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D KG can't wait til you come back again..... looking forward to hearing your tales when you get back.

Wicki - I'm glad the cycling seemed OK - I love the gym bike and the knee is certainly free-er after a good session. running just seems barbaric! Come and try out my cylceops magneto  - hopefully I'll have it set up for your visit.

Time to go and see Ele get awarded her red belt :-)


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 21, 2010, 06:34:27 PM
Thanks all for the good kitty wishes. We just had our morning summit with the vet and it's mostly good news, with a few concerns remaining. Mara has stabilized overnight, and isn't showing any obvious signs of cognition or vision impairment (cats suffer brain damage really quickly when their brains are starved of glucose, so they were very concerned about this last night.) The seizures were caused by blood sugar fluctuations, which are now under control. However, they're quite concerned about the underlying cause; her blood sugar shouldn't be varying that much when she's on a stable insulin dose. Given all her digestive problems over the last couple of weeks, bowel cancer is being mentioned as a strong possibility.  :'( We're going to visit her a bit later, and are hoping that she'll be able to come home tonight.

No more pre-surgery shopping for us, either - the vet bill is at $2000 and rising fast, as our vet is closed Sunday and Monday so she's still in Emergency. :(

We're both still quite stressed and worried. At 20 years old it's so hard to know whether we're doing the right thing for her. We want the basis for any decisions to be Mara's wellbeing and quality of life, not any wishes or concerns of our own. When we drove down to Emerg last night with her semi-conscious and unable to move her back legs, we really thought it was the final trip. The guidance we're getting from the vet is that she can definitely come through this (at least for now), but it's still so hard to be sure that we're making the right choices for her.

Sending good thoughts to Misty, too. Mara has some arthritis in her hind legs and we found a warming pad really helpful, especially during the winter when she's more symptomatic - we put it in her little bed or on her favourite chair, and it seems to really help her with the stiffness.

Vickster - very happy to hear about your cycling success. :) Jogging, though - ouch! After my experience last week I cringe even thinking about it. What are the things you're most concerned about being able to do?

Lottie - I gather there's a bit of a story behind your OS's nickname? I think that predates my time here so you'll have to share. Sorry the onions have been so rotten the past few days. :( I did look at the surgery site - it's unpleasant but I always figure knowing is better than not knowing. Glad you've got to the point of feeling sure that it's time for the onion to be chopped - mentally, I think that's a good place to be going into surgery. And of course you have those delightful shoes to look forward to afterwards...

Tez - Hope you're feeling completely prepared and ready for your break now. That's great advice from Lottie on putting the surgery aside while you're gone. I shall have to try and do the same thing while my parents are here.

Cosmic et al. - I echo all the statements about how lucky I am to have found you guys a hundredfold, too. :) I can't say anything that the others haven't already said, so will settle for a big thank you. :)

Brief knee update (they've sort of faded into the background due to the kitty crisis): they were feeling so awful on Saturday that I couldn't even walk to the pool; we had to take the car. They felt better in the water but it was back to angry hornets as soon as I was back on dry land. Decided to go for a kill or cure yesterday and went ahead with a planned group bike ride out to Maple Ridge, 120k in all. The last long ride I went on seemed to work a lot of the kinks out and the knees felt great afterwards, so I decided it had to be worth a try. Lots of knee grumbling in the early stages, but they felt much calmer during the afternoon. 10k from home I got a call from J who had just found Mara unconscious, and went into super sprint mode for the remaining distance; the knees were the last thing on my mind and at that point I didn't care if I messed them up completely. They were pretty sore last night and I dosed them with ice and naproxen when we got back from Animal Emerg, but the good news is that they feel miles better this morning. Let's hope it lasts.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 21, 2010, 11:18:25 PM
Lottie - I gather there's a bit of a story behind your OS's nickname?

Yes - when she sent me a link, I said he looked like a new Lib Dem cabinet member (they are a bit identikit), so he became LibDem onion boy however, when she met him reckons he is more of a ToryBoy as he is posh and drives a Porsche 911  ;D

My leg is having a meltdown tonight, doesn't seem to like the jogging...odd that!  Neelie is being iced as I type!  I haven't given up on the rest, but there doesn't seem to have been any improvement - despite me cutting right back on leg based exercise (I was gyming 3-4 times a week - 2k quickish row, 20 mins cycling, 15 minutes stepper, XT if could be bothered) plus road cycling 50 odd miles a week I guess!  I am now just swimming ~400m and perhaps 10 mins static cycle on lower resistance 3-4 x a week.  It is all very frustrating - knee is sore, twingy, swollen.  I could take anti-inflammatories which seemed to help on holiday but I don't really want to be reliant on drugs.  I have also lost 29lbs this year so I am feeling lighter and fitter and would like to reap the benefits in the gym and on the bike!  I just want Neelie to feel normal like my right knee!  >:(

Snowy - good to read Mara is doing better :)

Tez have a fab holiday - off to the airport very soon!  Woohoo  8)  Don't forget the AlkaSeltzer for that all you can drink Sangria  ;)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 22, 2010, 05:23:55 AM
Hahaha - love the LibDem/Tory onion boy story. My OS is youngish (looks mid-30s, but suspect very well-aged 40s) and incredibly buff - he looks like he spends all his spare time working out. He's also a skier (my coworker, who had her meniscus repaired by him in September, said she once saw skis in his office) which is encouraging. How's that whole coalition government working out in the UK? We went the other route here following a hung parliament and have a minority federal government, which is just as well as it means they're kept in check and can't do anything too heinous. However the feds have minimal influence this far west and BC is mostly subject to the whims of the provincial government, which in spite of the Liberal name are a bunch of right-wing crooks. Fortunately they went too far with recent tax legislation and it's looking like there will be a recall campaign later this year.

My leg had the same reaction to its 5 minute jog last week; it just seemed to set everything off and felt horrible for several days afterwards. If the jogging was more problematic than the cycling, would it be worth trying to cut out impact exercise rather than just reducing all leg exercise? Is the source of the pain the OC lesion that healed over, or the patella defect? I'm sure Neelie is feeling the benefits of the weight you lost - the best thing I ever did for my knees was ditching a lot of extra weight that I was carrying a few years ago.

Mara update: she's home! She's weak and quite grouchy after 24 hours in Emerg, but is definitely herself and her vision is fine. Her blood sugar is still fluctuating, but the vet is happy for us to do her blood glucose curve overnight (not fun; we have to prick her ear with a needle every hour and test the blood droplet with a monitoring strip) and report in with the results. She seems to be responding too well to the insulin right now and there's a high risk of her having another hypoglycaemic seizure if her blood glucose falls too low, so we're cutting her back to a smaller insulin dose just once a day. We're just so relieved to have her home; when we took her in last night she was semi-conscious, had lost control of her legs and could only move her head to one side. When we found her we thought she'd had a stroke and we honestly weren't expecting her to come home again. It's good to have two kitties in the house again. :)

Given the time here, Tez will soon be up and about for her flight...will look forward to hearing about Benidorm being painted red, Tez-style. :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 22, 2010, 08:06:40 AM
Great to hear Mara is home and stable  :D

The OS thinks it is the healed over lesion that is causing the issue - fibrocartilage is hard and can remain tender.  He advised me to stop all (leg based) exercise and PT for 3 months as is aggravating the knee (swimming ok, whatever is comfortable, crawl ok).  I am bending the rules a bit  ::) with the gentle cycle (lower resistance, sensible rpm).  as I can't neglect my poor legs completely! The jogging was daft, won't be doing that again and the bike is going back in the shed :(  He says my gait has also altered due to protecting the knee hence the lateral pain.  The hope is that resting it will help it settle and stop the pain - if not, more surgery may be needed to clear out the scar tissue and do something hideous to refill the defect :(

Cosmic - good luck with the new PT on Monday  :D  Looking forward to the trip to the seaside on the 12th, can we have ice cream as well as pudding, please please!!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on June 22, 2010, 11:57:28 AM
Welcome home Mara! My heart goes out with all of the pin-pricking though, that can't be fun for anyone.

My OS is youngish and also scrum-diddly-umptious. Would have pegged him as too young to be a surgeon but I Googled him (yes hush!) and he is 40. I am going to tell my single friends to start blowing their knees out- seems the OS is an untapped man-market.

Vickster- sorry to hear about your setback but taking it easy is probably the smart thing. Might I suggest my new favorite activity poolwalking? OK so it doesn't get the heart pumpin' so much and it makes you look like granny grunt... but it doesn't hurt!  ;D

Lottie- hope your onions are behaving and I think that the fancy shoe would be really cute with some splatter-paint or bedazzling, 80's style. I have heard wonderful things about those MD-whatever expensive sneakers and am still considering one of the cheapy versions to help my poor dead quad back to life. They sure are funny looking though!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 22, 2010, 01:47:45 PM
Morning all or afternoon all...

Lovely sunny day here!  8)

Snowy - such good news on Mara coming home, one day at a time I guess and see how she goes but she sounds like a tough little cookie and I am sure she is delighted to be back with you both and getting lots of kitty fuss! Glad you knees have settled down somewhat, I have to say that the slight bit of jogging I did a few weeks back around a park with a boot camp class I was covering didn't set them off - at the time they felt nasty but afterwards they were OK. I actually find biking to be very variable (only do indoor stuff) and seems to depend very much on the model of bike and how I can adjust the saddle and other bits. Cross trainer is the best for them, but again certain ones are better. Rowing is a huge NO for me - way too much shearing stress through the whole joint.

Vicks - it is a difficult call. There is an argument that if you did do the complete rest for 3 months at least you would know if things settled down. I know you've reduced the gym work but the holiday did involve quite a lot of walking and the bike, although non impact, is repititive action. But, I can also see the frustration of not doing anything for 3 months, getting some relief and then geting on a bike,,,and bamn, it all flares up again. I think in honesty if a lesion is troublesome, and the fibro isn't giving enough protection then it may need attention. My grade 4 on the femur is similar. I knwo when I did it (90 shutle sprints - ouch, sharp pain). and the next time I jogged on it, not knowing what had happened, the pain nearly floored me. It took my breath away. Clearly since then Bob has grown some scabby scarr stuff over it, as the pain is never as intense but it isn't right when I catch it. Thankfully, it is just slightly off the main walking weight bearing section - its weight bearing, but at an angle!

My onion OS is not hot at all, he just looks a bit sauve and like he may have been a player about 20 years ago! Very very Tory-Boy - he does 2 days a week private the The Wellington in London which is a WELL posh hospital; the car park for the docs is like a Goodwood festival of speed holding bay - Maseratis, Porsche, Astons...etc!

The onion was incredibly sore last night. Probably the worse pain I have had in it when I went to bed. Like someone had it in a vice. I shall be glad to get it done although I am under no illusions that it will be quite tough and I won't have a perfect foot afterwards.

Good session with my trainer this morning - don't see him that often as we moved house this year but we've stayed in touch. He thinks my quad control and strength is way better than it used to be, especially in Bob-knee. I have to spend the next 3 weeks really cranking up my PT exercises especially for onion knee, and he also introduced a couple of new things that I was surprised I could do (single leg dip/modified lunge with back leg up on bench and dip forwards, and some BOSU things). I'm seeing him the day before surgery to evaluate muscle strength and measure all my bits - I am determined not to gain weight or lose upper body muscle so this gives me a benchmark!!

Cosmic - how is Stumpy today? I'm glad that Mr OS Onion made you laugh. Almost as good as Mr Rubberlatexslipitinbecarefuldon'tspillanysuperstrongbobbleheadnobaby Condom-Sheath!!  :P ;D

Kris - sounds like you are doing really WELL - excellent news. Keep up that icing and pool walking! Do you have any images/web links of your hot OS?!  :P I think customising the Podalux is a wonderful idea. I read last night that after 2 weeks all the bandages come off - eeeek yuk gross massive scar and swollen foot to look at. Joy!

Hugs to all

Lottie xxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 22, 2010, 02:25:48 PM
Lol at the OS chit-chat.  Mine is not hot, sweet and easy to chat to but in his 50s I'd guess.  A good thing - lots of experience in chopping open knees!  He is also seemingly quite Conservative - also not a bad thing in an OS, not scalpel, scope and drill happy!!

Lottie - I have resolved to give the rest malarky another month, with NO cycling (static or road), treadmill, limited walking as practical - only upper body and crawl - will aim for both 3 times a week on alternate days with a day off at some point - swimming and upper body on alternate days probably as my arms and shoulders can't cope with both :-)  Then I will see - I can't see how the lesion will settle for ever more - even if it does calm down in this time, as soon as I do anything again, I fear it'll just get annoyed  ???

My boss sees a neuro at the Wellington - A certain ageing TV/news personwas there the other day with his son on Friday apparently (shhh don't tell anyone)

Kris - I'll try the pool walking.  I have been doing some SLRs in the water and cycling type motion

The great irony is that I injured myself doing exercise, if I had continued to sit on my ar*e , I'd be fine - size of a house and probably with diabetes and hypertension but fucntioning knees!!

Cosmic - did you get my text ref the 12th?  Have found a possible location with a very good looking pud menu  :P ;D

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on June 22, 2010, 02:40:30 PM
hehe there are no really good pics online that I can find- but here's a funny one from an ad campaign that features his h.s. yearbook photo! He's skinnier in the face now and his hair is shorter (which really suits him I must say! hehe!)

a little magnifying glass should show up to make the image bigger.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 22, 2010, 02:55:34 PM
Kris - he just looks a bit....gingoid in that photo!! Nice smile though!!  ;D :P

I'd like an OS like.....this....

I wouldn't want to speak though, it all gets ruined when Becks speaks!  :o
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 22, 2010, 02:57:51 PM

The great irony is that I injured myself doing exercise, if I had continued to sit on my ar*e , I'd be fine - size of a house and probably with diabetes and hypertension but fucntioning knees!!

Same here!! OK, my knees might have degenerated over the next 20 years as would my toes as they've always had niggles, but boy I sped up the process doing extreme training for 12 months!!! I should have stayed 2 stone heavier and able to walk properly!!  ::) :P
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on June 22, 2010, 03:29:13 PM
omg i think there are laws against shirtless os procedures but... ME LIKEY!

i swear i don't have a thing for gingoid types
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 22, 2010, 03:49:40 PM
I couldn't find a pic of my OS online. I'll have to see if he's willing to let me take one before surgery (perhaps I'll claim I'm working on "Shiny New Ligaments - an iPhone documentary.") He's also fairly conservative in his approach to treatment; the first time I saw him was for the patellar tracking problem, and he actually counselled me against an LR and sent me for a brace fitting and physio instead. That actually kept the problem under pretty good control for about three years, until last summer when we moved house and a solid two weeks of carrying heavy boxes and laying flooring did for the knees completely. I was actually concerned that he'd try and talk me out of the ACLr given how stable my knee seems to be, but as soon as I said I wanted to go back to high level skiing he said he'd strongly advise having the reconstruction.

I'd like an OS who looks like Becks but in addition to not speaking, I'd want a few more IQ points. Becks is lovely eye candy but I've never gotten the impression that he's the sharpest tack in the box, bless him.

Lottie and Vickster - do either of you wear any kind of unloader brace to reduce pressure on the lesions?

Lottie - that's interesting about cycling sometimes being okay and sometimes not. Clearly I don't have a problem cycling (in fact it seems to actively help the knee) but I do have to be very careful about picking the right equipment. When my downhill bike was stolen last year ( :'() I had to ride the beater bike I've been saving to teach J to ride. The frame is a couple inches too small for me and it has really short cranks, and my knees would just be screaming after the 35 minute ride to work. I ended up buying a secondhand model of the exact same bike that was stolen, since I found it so comfortable. Both of my bikes are Rocky Mountains; something about the unique angle of their frame seems to work really well for me. I also ride a slightly larger frame than would be expected for my height, and have the seat raised high enough that neither foot touches the ground - I find it's absolutely essential to fully straighten the leg at the bottom of the pedal stroke to avoid knee pain. I've had a few issues with some stationary bikes too, so at home I use an indoor trainer with my road bike because that way I know it's going to be a good fit.

That's really too bad about the onion pain. :( It may not be perfect afterwards, but it has to be better than going through this level of pain on a regular basis. I hope things are better this morning.

Time to go to work - darn, just when the live stream of the South Africa - France game was getting really entertaining! (2-0 to SA and a red card for France.) I still find it odd watching World Cup matches at 7am with breakfast rather than a beer, but at least it's not quite as bad as the last World Cup when half the games kicked off at 5am here.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 22, 2010, 08:03:27 PM
Snowy - no never been asked to wear a brace even when the injury was fresh (and the lesion probably down to bone) .  I used a neoprene support on holiday, but with the heat, the knee just sweated and swelled!

My I said, old (and he looks a little younger in the pic)

Had a swim tonight - did 40 lengths (it's a 17m pool) as I had a big fat cupcake mid afternoon which needed burning and gave me a sugar fix  ;D + 4 lengths walking as suggested - weird feeling, like being drunk  :P Followed by jacuzzi (knee massage in jet), sauna and steam... And now Neelie hurts lots even to stand on  >:(  All I have done is sit at a desk all day before the swim!

Lottie - how are the weird drunken shoes doing?

Cosmic - your thread has expanded in your absence lol!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 22, 2010, 08:35:20 PM
Snowy - Nope, I have never had an unloader brace suggested to me either; I used to wear a lightweight sports support at the gym, just a stretchy one for reassurance more than function but I've graduated away from that. I think if I tried anything hard like skiing (ha ha ha ha Bob and the onions on skis) I might look into one, but I have to admit to HATING anything around my knee like a brace!!  ::)

Vicks - bad Neelie. She isn't happy is she? Do you do crawl? Kicking hard or soft? This is so frustrating. Do you want Mr ToryBoy911 to do a job on her on the 14th as well/ I'm sure he can do other joints apart from feet, its all the same really isn't it.... :P

I tried some MBTs. The shop I went to only had a very limited choice and all of them were winter type shoes. I had a good walk about, they are quite cool actually, and kind of force you to walk heel to toe without thinking about it. I did find that they pushed on my bad big toe at the moment, but I think thats because my big toe has growths on the top rather than the shoes. They certainly support the joint well and stop the jamming action. I think I might get some for after my surgery, when the swelling has settled down as they do create a sense of stability, underpinned by instability! The really helpful girl in the shop said she loves her tw0 pairs and does power walking in them and wears them to the gym for cross training too. Bonkers!! So, I didn't get any MBTs but I did get some cool soft leather type sandals/shoes that don't seem to create agony in the the foot when I walk, especially with my delightful gel pad shoved on top of the extra bonus big toe growth. I wouldn't be able to walk a long way, but they seem OK and at least they aren't my Mizuno running shoes which is what i appear to be living in recently!! Chav!!! ::) :o ;D

Gosh football on the TV. How unusual.  ::)

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 22, 2010, 08:53:33 PM
Yes, crawl...softish kicking, not loads of splash as far as I can tell!  Neelie is indeed a b****, I really dk what else to do or not do!  I was told swimming is fine, well even if it's not making her worse, doesn't seem to be helping...aarrgh fed up :(

I'll pass on Tory onion boy and his saws and meccano!  :P  I shall likely see my own OS in August at this rate

Skiing ugh, my worst nightmare, I hate snow, foul muck!  Sorry, skiing fans!

Look forward to seeing the new groovy sandals on the 12th ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 23, 2010, 06:19:39 AM
That's okay, I won't hold your anti-snow opinions against you. :P As long as it's just anti-snow and not anti-Snowy.  ;) Although at this time of year I really should change my name to Splashy, given the amount of time I spend in the pool.

That's too bad that swimming's not helping. I guess at least it's a form of exercise you can do without aggravating things, but it's a bit limiting if that's all you can do. Poor Neelie. :(

What are the options for repair if you do go back to the OS?
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 23, 2010, 06:29:38 AM
Oh - Lottie - after reading your post I did a bit more investigation into the MBTs. I'd never heard of them but they seem like a great idea, and I'm going to ask my PT about investing in a pair once I'm through the early stages of ACLr recovery. How did they feel on the knees? Were they really weird to walk in? Did you feel like your leg muscles were getting an extra workout in them? I had a look at their website and there's actually a supplier just a few blocks from our place, so I'm tempted to go and give them a try...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 23, 2010, 08:21:20 AM
Not anti-Snowy of course  :D

I am just more of a green rolling hills kind of gal rather than craggy, snowy mountains!  I have been to the Canadian Rockies though and they were superb!  Even I could appreciate their splendour  ;)  I just see no positives to snow - I have skiied in childhood, not my sport!  It's just cold, wet, inconvenient and dangerous!

In terms of repair, the letter from my OS after my last consultation refers to debridement of the fibrocartilage on the lesion, grafting with a collagen membrane.  He also mentioned drilling during the discussion.  So whether he is thinking MACI or drilling/microfracture with a membrane, not sure.  He does both according to the hospital site.   (warning piccies, albeit not very gruesome, not that most here are squeamish ;D )

Obviously, I would want whatever has the best chance of long-term success!  The rest of my knee is basically ok, back of kneecap a touch manky and now missing a bit of meniscus!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 23, 2010, 09:07:50 AM

The MBTs made my knees click a bit, but not in a painful way. They click a lot anyway but I guess this just shifted them slightly. I think practice would be needed along with decent socks (I had on fairly thin socks and would probably find my Hilly sports socks to be better; I think the thin sock was what made my toe feel a bit uncomfortable) if you're getting a full "trainer" type pair. They do the sandal types too, which look they'd be fine with bare feet. The shop girl said they recommend wearing for them about an hour at a time intially to get used to them and then building the time. They are extremely soft as you walk which is nice, you almost spring out of a step and you can walk with smaller strides and at a faster pace. The other good thing is when you stop walking, they make you stand up properly - and you can rock and shift in a way that moves your hips and back and bum, it is quite hard to describe but they are good! I cam imagine that your muscles do work differently if you were to walk about in them for a while. The other important thing is to make sure that you don't pronate or roll outwards in them - my feet pronate and I am not sure if you could also use them with a custom orthotic as they do give good arch support anyway. I think its more of a walking process so you're consciously distributing your weight properly, which the shoes kind of force you to do. The pair I tried on did feel a bit bulky, but no more than biggish trainers or walking type boots. The summery ones are meant to be more light weight.  8)

I could be having my onion done today - it was my first date I was thinking of until work took over. Imagine - ToryBoy chopping away happily and watching the England match...OMG I could have ended up with the wrong foot, fused five toes, big toe fused at 60 degrees, ankle replacement.....the horrors!!

Hope everyone is OK,

Off to the gym, sunny morning! ;D

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 23, 2010, 10:01:26 AM
I reckon ToryBoy is more of the rugby than football type...when are Englad playing again in Oz..14th July is it?
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 23, 2010, 03:31:45 PM
sorry cant keep away just a we quicki weather here is brill posted on imps thred but using crap hotel puter long story
hope you are all well i am doing ok bit more walking than knee likes the standing its used to but walking is another story watching the getting on and off kirbs cos dont want to end up flat on my face here.
any word aboit Tonys date yet will check in again later if allowed Dougie is trying to diswade me from logging on tale care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on June 23, 2010, 05:28:07 PM
oh gosh tez! go do something fun!
careful on curbs, you've got a few weeks til your repair yet so don't go breaking yourself :) remind the fam that there's nothing wrong with walking slowly...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 24, 2010, 03:27:30 AM
Vickster - my knee will attest to the dangers of skiing. :) Having a very poorly developed sense of personal risk, that's one of the things I like about it.  ;D

Lottie - I'm intrigued enough that I think I'm going to try a pair on. I'm game for anything that might help the knees, and they sound quite different to anything I've tried before.

Tez - good to see you, but I still think you should be lounging in the sun with cocktail in hand rather than hanging out online. Of course that's just 'cause I'm jealous, since we still don't have much in the way of summer weather and I foolishly gave up drinking prior to surgery (though I will probably let myself have a beer on Canada Day.) Any luck getting Conor's laptop back? Haven't heard from Tony, but it's his grad tonight (go Tony!) so I think he has other things on his mind.

I'm asleep on my feet after getting up at 6am and hauling myself to a downtown sports bar to watch the game. At least England rewarded me with a win this time, though I suspect it will be the last one. I just can't get used to this whole concept of watching the footie with a cup of tea in hand rather than a beer...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 24, 2010, 10:08:12 AM
Skiing just doesn't appeal, the risk, the cold, the wet - I'd rather spend my holiday time and cash seeing a city / the world than sitting on my rear in the horrid white stuff!  I am in no way an adrenalin junkie, although I quite like a fast car and accleration  ;D

My knee is drivving me potty, stiff, hurts (indeed my back is achy too) and swollen - was bad last night - partly the heat perhaps?  Attacked it with ice but still achy today :(  Not done anything leg based in the gym for a few days either (and the last was just a brief cycle).  I did wash the car last night in readiness for a viewing, perhaps that set it off...grrr

To make things worse, my home laptop has thrown a wobbly - an IT colleague reckons the symptoms sound like a fubar'ed Hard Drive - just what I need, especially as it's a month out of warranty!  >:( Not got a lot spare cash for a new one with buying the car.  Bah!  >:(

Next England match is 3pm Sunday I think, so again still rather early for beer in Vancouver!

Hope everyone else's knees and other joints are behaving better than Neelie!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 24, 2010, 08:44:22 PM
Hello world....

How is everyone? Cosmic, how is the knee doing? Is it next Monday you see the private PT or was it this week? I am confused with my weeks!

Vicks - darned Neelie-knee. WTF is up with her? I am baffled why she is continuing to swell and get stiff when you're really not doing very much with her. Do I sense another OS review perchance to talk through options.....poo bah damn it.  :'( :-\

Tez - I don't want to see you on here until next week!!

Kris - sounds like you're doing well having checked in on your thread. Good steady progress - I think aqua aerobics can be really good, it works you a lot harder than you think you are.

Snowy - we will not only have matching bum knees but matching MBTs at this rate! I am going to get some I think, but not til after surgery as I may find they don't suit the post surgery foot for a while. I meant to ask - when your OS does the ACLr is he going to do anything else - with the PFS I guess it is possible the kneecap may have some hairy bits. Will he do anything with any hairy cartilage? I suspect that the PFS will like the fact that the crud gets washed out through the fact it is having a scope and stuff, and I wonder how much you'll not only be benefitted by the ACLr but the clear out of debris for the PFS. A friend of mine had PFS and has had about 5 wash outs, nothing else done apart from trimming the major divots and washing the junk, and she really responds well. I may end up having that done next year if conservative measures fail. I certainly know that inflammation is a big trigger of my symptoms, more so than the direct pain of lesions - and it seems that clearing out the spare rubbish can help....

Me - well, I've been to Rotherham today for work and spent the day in the hospital education centre. Lots of consultants - I got to park in their car park so Bob and the onions felt quite important. Very different to Tory-Boy private consultant car park - just normal cars as compared to the prestige car dealership sensation you get at my onion chop abode!! Good day at work, one of my most challenging cases for a while and its good to think of something other than knees and feet. I am starting to feel scared about the 14th - I actually get that physical gut lurch when I think of the process and being back home afterwards. I can't quite believe I am choosing to give up my mobility for a while - but I have to do it. I cannot carry on as the onion is! Scary though.  :o

Hope the world is treating people and their knees well.....

Lottie xxx ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 24, 2010, 09:48:15 PM
5 weeks and 2 days

Hi y'all,

So .... it is with great pleasure that I can report that (I think) i am walking pretty normally..... and for the first time am forgetting my knee when moving around the house .....  ;D ;D ;D ;D .
On a slow-moderate walk on flat ground it's generally pretty comfortable...however I am very aware that the comfort zone is still quite narrow....and am very quickly out of my depth if speed, uneven surfaces, inclines/declines or impact come into play.

Tuesday night I planned a walk with Ele and her friend at Arne - a local RSPB reserve which meanders through deer infested woodland with harbour views and across sandy heath to a small beach. We took disposable BBQs to use on the beach - but didn't make it that far  :-\ (slow me coupled with having to be back to collect Cam from meeting his girlfriend's parents!) ... so we took the BBQs home and cooked in the back garden acompanied by a couple of Cam and Ele's friends... much hilarity  ;D ;D ;D ;D.

I've been for a couple of cracking walks with the doglet this week (Kris I think you asked way back what flavour she is.... she's a 4.5 year old Tibetan Terrier) still very aware of knee on uneven or hilly terrain and protective ... ..always use a walking pole in the forest.
Yesterday I walked to a Victorian boating lake secreted in the forest - the Rhododendrons have pretty much engulfed most of the banks - there are just two routes of access, one along a small river - and one across the heath. The river route has a small boggy section bridged by small logs and a fallen tree - had to decide which was the least risky route so chose to climb over the tree.... much bottom sliding involved but no problems.

The return route should have been a straight forward potter across the heath however  the Forestry Commission have decided to chop down all the trees and introduce livestock to manage the heath...and installed fences with ladders (which are 5 pieces of wood hammered horizontally between the fence posts)  instead of stiles. I have to say I did stand and look at it for a while thinking "should I? shouldn't I?" .... in the end I took off the backpack and squeezed between the wire of the fence. Undignified but safe.

The funniest part was at the river - there is a steep dirt bank down to the water - Tashi brought me a stick and as I looked down to pick it up my sunglasses fell off my head down the bank, another bottom shuffling episode combined with creative use of walking pole to retrieve them and meantime a friendly and very soggy labradoodle pup decided that I was on the ground for a game of ruff and tumble!!! I had to hang on to a tree to avoid being pushed into the water.... couldn't stand up, couldn't move..... and was rescued by a mortified puppy owner LoL.

Today I chose a different route - one with trees for a bit of shade... and had lunch by a small lake formed by local ball clay mining.... piccie below!

I had a couple of quite rough nights and painful mornings last week - I even resorted to wearing the lockable brace for a couple of nights to immobilise it extended - it was between the devil and the deep blue sea -  the brace helped the pain but was blooming uncomfortable!

The pain/discomfort (scarab beetles and all) last week may just have been a stage of the healing....or it may be the break from the gym ...for one reason or another I haven't made it to the gym this week.... maybe I was just overdoing some of the repetitive stuff, or maybe it's just been through a storm before the calm!
Who knows?? ... but I do find that once I've been through a backwards step the next step forwards seems to come faster and step further. It helps to keep that in mind when frustration kicks in.

The aerial man has been today. Our signal has been naff for years - but as we're not big TV viewers (3 hours a week!!) we've never bothered to do anything about it. When we moved the lounge around the TV ended up on the opposite side of the room to the aerial socket ... we've been 2 weeks without it and haven't really missed it -  I think the light evenings help (and the laptop)! So we now have full digital signal in the lounge and a socket in the bedroom ... I just need to put the mains, wall bracket and TV there and I'll be able to watch my 3 hours of TV in bed!!!

So everyone - the countdown continues - not long until July and I can tune in to all your post op journeys  :D ... I hope that my rantings are helping to ease your fears.
My pre-op wasn't the easiest, and my post op has been interesting...BUT as week 5 passes and heads into week 6  (the beginning of graft vascularisation and innervation) and I am very happy with progress.....

So everyone else....

Lottiefox - love the idea of customising your shoes - do you get them before the op? - can you bring them/it to our luncheon and we can do a combined effort on them/it. Hope the onions are behaving - I've got the pickle ready if not......

Tez - what are you like LoL!? Hope you got the laptop back, and are having a fantabulous time!

Snowy - hope Mara continues to improve, that Gimpy is behaving now she's got over the jogging episode and you are getting everything done that you want to pre-op.

Wicki - bummer that Neelie is being a petulant teenager. Perhaps cake and ice cream, some pud and more cake might help  ;D.  She'd better be on her best behaviour for your birthday! I can come out of the closet now and admit that, like you, I am not a fan of the cold white stuff! There - I've said it! I always feel like I should want to want to ski - and perhaps if I tried it properly at a decent beginners resort I may learn to love it.... but my weeks' experience on the Italian slopes 17 years ago didn't inspire me to return to date!

Tony - still waiting to see the pictures of that graduation dance!

Kris - hope you have a great weekend after your week back at work, that you get the chance to relax a bit!


PS checked for pics of my OS - none available online  :-(- shame as he's quite presentable really.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 24, 2010, 09:50:08 PM
..... lunch venue ...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on June 24, 2010, 11:33:01 PM
Cosmic, fantastic to hear that it's all going so well and to plan  ;D  Looking forward to seeing scars and the rest of you on the 12th (location still TBC I think)

Neelie is indeed a petulent teenager, just like me lol  ;D  I have started back on the 400mg ibuprofen to help the swelling, which in turn will hopefully help the stiffness.  Saw the OS 6 weeks ago today so I should be half way to being healed...err...yeah  ::)  I am also trying the cake and sweet therapy, good for the waistline.

Swim today, 30 lengths of crawl and 10 of inebriated walking!  Had a break in the middle as the fire alarm went off, deafening, had to hobble down 4 flights of stairs in cossie, towel and barefeet  :-[ . Then hang around on pavement for 15 minutes, highly elegant in front of all the gym boys.  Fortunately, it wasn't too cold out nor any glass around!  ::) All good fun, went back up all the stairs to pool to finish off and warm up!

Lottie - I expect I wiill be seeing the OS again in 4-6 weeks to talk strategy!  I am certainly not doing anything like the leg-based stuff I was before and even then, it's not like I was running a 10k every week!

Bed, I need to sleep, really struggling at work due to this wretched summer insomnia!!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 25, 2010, 06:36:52 AM
Hey gang! I've had a bit of catching up to do today - it was my last day at work and with an entire provincewide virtual reference service to shut down (bah), my office to pack up, and all my projects on the web side to hand off to the person who's acting for me for the next two and a half months, it was insane. I honestly thought I was going to explode before the day was done. A soothing swim on the way home helped (just 22 lengths, but in our crazy huge pool that's just over 3k) and now I'm giving myself a rare evening off. Tomorrow my parents arrive for their ten-day visit, and then after they go I just have a couple of days to get ready for the big day on July 9th...

Cosmic - fantastic news, not just on your progress (so much walking!) but on how happy you are with the stage you're at now. Must admit I'm very impressed with your tales of walking/scrambling on riverbanks and through the woods. It may feel slow but I think you're actually doing more than a lot of folk at the five-week mark. Sorry to hear about the rough days last week; did anything trigger those or do you think it's just part of the healing process?

I hear you on the TV. We watch even less (2 hours on a Sunday evening in the winter; none in the summer) and I live in fear of running out of books while I'm still immobilized, and being trapped with nothing but daytime TV for company. It's not very likely (J will be home if I need amusing, and I work in a library - I'm not short of books) but that was the main rationale for buying the iPad. I can hook it up to the TV and download shows I actually want to watch on iTunes (I've been saving Season 6 of House for this purpose), and download ebooks to read in an emergency. And of course the nifty little thing hooks right up to KneeGeeks, too. Be prepared, that's my motto... :)

Tez - poor thing - we all tell you how much we're going to miss you, and then you pop into say hi and we all tell you to get back out to those Spanish beaches! Hope you're having a wonderful time and the knee is behaving itself. :)

Vickster - that's too bad that Neelie isn't responding to any of the efforts you're making to please her. Fire alarms in pools are always a very bad thing - that happened to me in London once in the dead of winter and I came down with one of the worst flus I've ever had right afterwards. Hope you can get the laptop fixed - at least if it's the hard drive it's easy (and not too expensive - about $100 here, not sure how the UK compares) to replace in a laptop, but recovering the data from the dead one can be a real bitch. I'm envious of your planned meetup - make sure you take lots of pictures for those of us who can't be there!  :D

Lottie - that's a very interesting point about the PFS pain and the surgery. We haven't actually talked about it, but I imagine the OS will tidy up anything that needs tidying while he's in there. My understanding from the last set of x-rays and my sports med doc is that the cartilage changes are quite minor (early stage OA) and that inflammation is the main source of the pain, but then again I haven't had any deeper level scans done and they have gotten a lot more painful since then (that assessment pre-dated the ACL tear and the aggravating factor of all the legwork.) I'll have to ask before the surgery. If a knee laundering helps I'd be delighted to have one on the other knee after the ACLr heals up. The PFS is awful at the moment - I'm back to angry hornets in both knees, I think from a heavy gym session yesterday lunchtime. I just don't know how much I can do to settle it down while I'm doing the ACL rehab.  :-\

Tony is still out celebrating his grad (although by the sounds of his Twitter posts his date isn't much company) so hopefully we'll hear from him in a day or two. :)

Okay, time to go unpack the three boxes I lugged home from my office today...I honestly have no idea how I accumulated so much crap there! Although there's an entire box of assorted knee braces, ice packs and physio aids... ::)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on June 25, 2010, 11:15:04 AM
Hello prolific writers! So many novellas to tune into on this fine Friday morning... I love it!

Snowy- congrats on last day of work. Now you've got lots of relaxing to do! House season 6 was great- season 7 was an epic disaster, but then again, I am an unapologetic tv addict and will watch anything! Even though my rehab was short, I still ran out of reading material and had to send for more books on hold to be picked up from the library. Daytime tv is nobody's friend!

Cosmic, walking like a normal person is quite a feat! It's nice to be reminded that there's light at the end of this long injury/surgery tunnel. Sorry to hear you've still had pain but it seems like nights and mornings are always the worst. Cruel.

Lottie, I know you're in for a fair bit of work but in so many cases we psych ourselves up and the worry is worse than the outcome. Remember how much better you'll feel when all's said and done. (Yes I need to take my own advice too) You're like royalty parking in the fancy lot, so just think of the extra-special care you'll be getting  ;)

Tez if I see you on here again I'll kick your butt!  :)

I am doing ok, I am still sleeping pretty well but I still have more pain and swelling than I was prepared for at this point. Got to work this weekend to keep trying to get caught up but I will sneak some relax time in as well.

happy friday to all!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 25, 2010, 04:27:11 PM
that's it - I'm going to be a cat next time around ...

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on June 25, 2010, 10:40:11 PM
you really think the tape is going to hold!? the key to all great technology is... black tape
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 25, 2010, 10:50:36 PM
R was telling me about this cat - I couldn't watch - I know its awesome vet skills but I kept thinking of the poor little kitty loosing his feet in such a horrible way.  :'( 

It is summer. Long warm sunny days......


Lottie has caught a stinking summer cold and has a throat full of razor blades. Forced myself to the gym and infected most of Buckinghamshire, sweated like a b-stard, felt marginally better, came home, ate, relapsed.  :(

Bed time for this bunged up sore footed Fox. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Night all, hope the joints are behaving

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 26, 2010, 06:43:49 AM
Oh, poor Lottie. :( I really hope you exercised your cold into submission and feel much better soon.

Kris - that's too bad about Season 7 of House. It's one of the few shows that's been consistently good so far (we've seen up to Season 5) and I was hoping they'd be able to maintain that. Oh well - perhaps that's one to watch while I'm still on the good painkillers...

Had a pretty good knee day today - got up at 6am for a soccer breakfast, then biked along the False Creek seawall to the pool where I had a gorgeous early swim in the sunshine. Spent the afternoon trying to make our condo look presentable for the parental arrival; we only moved in last summer, so they hadn't seen it before today and it was a bit of a disaster after a busy week. Picked up the rather jet lagged parents from the airport, and am now getting a few moments to catch up online while they sleep.

Not sure how much I'll be able to post over the next week or so, but I'll try and check in when I can. Hope everyone's at the start of a good knee weekend.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 28, 2010, 07:11:16 PM
Poor Lottie - razor blades and ear mites :-( .... hope the anti-bionics are kicking in and are ensuring that you are fit to enjoy the sunshine and get to your onion dicing.

Snowy - your condo looks beautiful, I'm sure your parents are very impressed! We all are ! :-*

5 weeks and 5 days

Went to see the private pt - Mr Tim Cruse-Drew today (recommended by a fellow TKD flying sidekick casualty)....(shame Tim isn't called Oliver as then his initials could be OCD  ;D). 

Wow I learnt so much.

Firstly ...... Scarab beetles = normal  :) . The saphenous nerve descends the inside of the thigh and then splits into 5 branches just below the knee from the medial side. The ACLr surgery has damaged the branches (which is why you end up with the numb patch at the front of your knee/calf) ... and the pains are the nerves repairing. It also explains the odd sensation when I massage the medial side of the scar and it feels like it's pulling a piece of string which runs under the skin across the front of the calf through the numb bit!

The scar is a little too red and perhaps a little too tender - PT thinks there is a possibility of a low level infection - if I was a private patient he would have called my OS to take a look at it, but as NHS I have been advised to keep an eye on it and follow up if it gets any redder or hotter.

So that was interesting - now for the really interesting bit. My extension is 5o .... so not quite straight yet....BUT what I have never realised/ been told is that my good leg extends to -10o - so the total difference between my knees is 15o!!!!
It explains why, when I sit with my legs in front, there doesn't appear to be much difference in extension (as my right leg is restricted by the floor!) yet when I stand up there is a big difference.
Now I know it's SO OBVIOUS!!!!

Mr OCD believes that the hyperextension is probably a major contributing factor to the original injury ...

"Hyperextension of the knee, that is, if the knee is straightened more than 10 degrees beyond its normal fully straightened position, is a very common cause of an ACL tear. This position of the knee forces the lower leg excessively forward in relation to the upper leg."

Anyway - the new ACL is fixed so that maximum extension is zero degrees... so I have 5o to work on to get to my new full extension, and have to re-educate my knee about its new terminal extension point.

Kristin - I think I have found a match for your brutish windy-grin PT..... Mr OCD raised my heel on a roll and then applied his full body weight to my knee! I'm surprised the receptionist didn't call emergency services ... I was halfway between nervous laughter and screaming howls  :o. Quads went into twitching spasms to try to kick the leg out of the lock..... but Mr OCD reckons a bit of brutality is the only way to break the scarring. "If after a few tries the knee feels worse then it's probably a good idea to stop" LoL. So I've got to get Ele to sit on it! I'm wracking my brains to think of a way of setting up a weighted contraption so I can do it myself.

The next interesting bit is the re-education of my knee .... which comprises of two parts.
1) sensory re-adjustment..... this involves both the skin surface and the deeper nerves. I have to bombard the scarred area and numb bit with lots of different sensations - tickle it, rub it, tap it, stroke it, rub it with paper, velvet, plastic, cotton wool....anything to give the skin a variety of inputs...and to do the same thing on the other knee to give a bench mark for my brain!
The nerves are hyper-sensitised to pain. The difference in pain when Mr OCD squeezed my good thigh, then my bad was HUGE, yet there is no real reason for it - just the saphenous nerve over-reacting/my brain misinterpreting the signal, so I have to de-sensitise them by lots of vigorous application of PAIN (within reason obviously)!
2) Re-educating the knee about its new point of full extension. Lots of balance/co-ordination exercises....

Lastly is the need to bulk the muscles. The gym work that I have been doing has all been very much in line with the early ACLr protocol, but Mr OCD-letmepinyourkneetothetablewhilstyouwriggleandsquirm says I need to up the resistance (keep the reps the same) to make sure the quads are exhausted by the last rep in order to increase muscle mass. He says that increasing the time that I am doing each of my exercises is OK for cardio and stamina but not for strength..... it's so logical  ::)!!!
So higher weights for leg presses - lots of one legged work, holding squats, lunges etc.

That's all for now - have to taxi kids to kickboxing!!

I hope that's useful info!!

Hugs for all


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 28, 2010, 10:59:31 PM
Wey hey - I scoured the garage and found a boot mountable bike rack - a bit of ingenuity and the addition of two furry cushions and two velcro straps from my lockable brace and I now have an bit-of-kit which I can use as a lever to apply pressure to extend my it lifts my heel it presses on my calf and thigh to try to straighten my leg. Cool  ;D

Heath Robinson eat your heart out  :P

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 29, 2010, 04:26:24 AM
Okay...this update definitely gets a prize in terms of fascinating post-ACLr information. Mr TCD is a clearly a goldmine!

The whole nerve thing makes complete sense when you think about it. Keep us posted on how the desensitization goes. I've heard a similar story about how one of the really good patellar tendon surgeon helps his patients avoid donor site morbidity - he gets his patients doing things like kneeling on rough carpet and then moving forward on their knees to help desensitize the donor site.

That's also very interesting about the whole hyperextension issue. I also naturally hyperextend, and my PT mentioned that this was probably a contributing factor to my initial ACL tear and eventually the rupture. What I didn't realise is that the new ACL may be set to a different terminal extension! I'll have to check that with my OS when I talk to him before surgery, as I suspect I will also end up having to re-educate my knee to adjust to a new terminal extension.

I love your homemade knee bending contraption! That totally deserves a spot on  ( (home of the pic jerry rig).

The time is just flying for me while I spend the week showing my parents the sights of Vancouver; can't believe surgery is a week on Friday! The OS's office called me this morning to let me know that I'm the first surgery of the day on the 9th, so I have to be at the hospital at 6am and will likely be under the knife around 9am. They're going to be calling with some more details later this week.

Lottie - my mum's onions have gotten really bad and she's anticipating surgery later this year, so she's asked me to keep her posted on all the details of how your onion chopping goes. I also really hope that you're feeling better now; your evil cold/flu/summer lurgy doesn't sound good at all.

Will keep trying to check in in between sight-seeing. Hope you're all keeping well. :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 29, 2010, 09:00:10 AM
Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh................first time in 4 days I've been able to focus on the computer screen. Yuk. No more of that nasty flu thing please. It makes onion and knee pain look almost desirable. Finally made myself see GP yesterday after 4 days of fever, green gunk, vomiting, loss of 4 pounds....ear infection, throat got some drugs and hopefully the cough of the dead might least this morning I am out of bed!!

Cosmic - MrOCDtidyyourroombeforeIpinyoudownbackwardsdon'tscreamyou'llwake theneighbours sounds like a good find. Very interesting about the hyperextension - I think my knee also hyperextend, and whilst i have an intact ACL mine has shown as "attenuated" on scans and I intend to try and protect it. I think our natural gaits (slight inwardly facing knees, womens' hips, etc etc) predispose us to hyperextend and if we have relatively flexible joints, then its double trouble. Sounds like those final 5 degrees will come..........with or without pain!!!  :o  Love the idea of ticking/rubbing/sand blasting both knees - perhaps thats what I'll do to Bob when he misbehaves! I think onion ops can have similar fall out with nerves being a bit bonkers so we can sandpaper together!  8)

Snowy, hope you're feeling OK about the 9th. Must be great to see your folks. I will certainly keep your Mum posted about the onion op. Has she seen a specialist? Much seems to depend on whether you just have an onion (relatively straightforward choice of corrective ops) or if the joint is also arthritic (as my right one is). Then it is not only the choice of correction for the deformity but dealing with the worn out joint. I think if hers have gotten to the stage of daily pain then it is worth going for it. Mine have been fabulous the past 5 days as I've been in bed! The knees don't like being inactive though, can feel the muscles seizing up on a daily basis so despite feeling ropy today I must get my PT started again. I had such good plans for working them so hard prior to the op - still, can't be helped.

Vicks - was that a serious text last night about booking Neelie in for her MACI?!!!  :o

Right, am shattered. This ill business is no fun. Time for a large Ribena and a lie down.

I was marginally cheered yesterday as R made me get up for 2 hours and I watched Rafa win at Wimbledon - two shirt changes at the end of each set and the BBC showed some of his shots in slow motion - OMG those muscles.  :P That man is a dream...... ;D

Hugs to all

Lottie xxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on June 29, 2010, 12:28:01 PM
Wow Cosmic, welcome to the torture club! The use of full body weight to push on one little, damaged extremity is a practice I am very familiar with. Yesterday I was yanked up by the ankle and had my knee bent til my toe almost touched to the back of my head... nope I'm no gymnast... I squealed for my life! (His response: "It hurts that much just from me doing this?" With emphasis on the just, as if we were sharing a piece of freakin' pie. Come on now!! We'll have to wait and see if these caveman methods are ultimately helpful. I love your homemade contraption! Are you an inventor?

Lottie glad to hear you're feeling better... but if you wouldn't blowing whatever you've got my way- I'd like to lose 4 lbs!

Snowy, I am so glad to hear that you're a first-thing in the morning gal. Waiting all morning and into the afternoon was complete torture. The way I look at it, the sooner you get in and finished, the sooner the healing begins! Plus you won't be subject to delays caused by other gimpers, a sleepy OS who needs his afternoon Red Bull, etc. etc. Hope you continue to have a blast with the family- think of all the poor sap desk jockeys (i.e. me! haha) while you are out and about and have some extra fun for me.

Back to jockeying for me... there's been a sudden avalanche of ineptitude around me, so I'm going to have to find time today to throw a fit to management on top of everything else I've got to do, then be out of here by 1 pm to get to the OS. Serenity now.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 29, 2010, 07:41:27 PM
Please can I come back and chat with you crowd now, cos I am home from Spain I have already done 3 loads of washing that are now hanging outside, and the 4th in in the machine, the cases are all unpacked, the dog has been picked up from the dog sitter and the kids are off to see their other halfs so now I can catch up on everything here.
Cosmic sounds like your new physio is a little sadistic but seems to know what he's talking about, and your leg straightening contraption shows a fair bit of inventory flair  :).
Snowy hope parents are enjoying there visit and you are all having fun investigating the very beautifull Vancouver, it must be lovely to show off such an outstanding place, and the knees are cooperating and not giving you too much grief.
Emma pleased you got something from the doctor for that dredfull lurgy you have been suffering from hope you feel better soon.
My holiday was pretty good the weather was hot and sunny apart from Sun when it rained for a while, the knee coped not too bad but it did prove to me that it is deffo worse now than it was last year because last year we spent a week in Vegas and I walked around there every day with just a little pain and swelling by the end of the day whereas this holiday I really struggled to walk around even for part of the day and had a constant ache though not a lot of swelling, also just the feeling that my knee could give out at any moment is really not a nice feeling, far to many high kirbs for my likeing, one thing that the holiday has brought home is how much my knee has deteriarated since last year and that, I'm sure would just continue if I didn't have the surgery, so in a way it has dispelled any feelings that I was making a mistake in having the surgery at my age :o
Take care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 29, 2010, 10:45:55 PM
Welcome home Tez!!!!

Glad you had a warm and sunny break!!  8)  Don't you just hate the washing though after a holiday...where does it all come from......yes, my lurgy is reducing thankfully, although still have a cough and feel pretty wiped out. I know what you mean about needing some reassurance you need the surgery. My onion has been perfectly behaved with 4 days in bed and only walking to the bathroom or kitchen. Today it walks down the road to the shop, and hangs out some washing and does a bit of taking rubbish bags out etc and bending it....and it starts to, it reinforces that I too just have to grin and bear it. Not long for you, me and Snowy....and who else is due in july?

Right sleep time, hopefully I won't cough all night for once!!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on June 29, 2010, 11:45:50 PM
Welcome back Tez - it's been very odd without you!! Glad you had a good time and are raring to go.... impressed with the washing!

5 weeks and 6 days

I reached a another milestone today ...remember that new instrument of torture at the gym three weeks ago..the Vario...that nearly shot me through the ceiling. I said it would be a real event when I could finally use it. DID IT tonight  ;D - its really great. I did 20 minutes  ... the gym trainer chatted to me about drums and guitars and amps and before i knew it time was up!

Also must tell you about the cream - "percutane" - that the PT's like a herbal deep heat - main ingredient = capsicum ( in red, green, chilli!!). Use sparingly .... hmmm.
Applied, rubbed in, waited. Applied more, rubbed in waited. Went to bed. Woke in the middle of the night with legs on fire LoL. If you've ever chopped chillies then touched delicate parts of your body you'll be familiar with the sensation.
I may be a little more frugal tonight!

Tez - practicing to look after your clients in your absence - put cam's hair in dreadlocks tonight - first time. No wax so won't stay in long but looks fab!

Time for bed (having fallen asleep once already typing this! ::)

Night night Knee friends. xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 30, 2010, 08:34:27 AM
Hello my wonderful knee geek friends. Checking in very briefly to see how things are going before crashing for the night. It's lovely to see my parents and we're having a great time seeing the sights, but boy is having visitors tiring!

Lottie - so glad to hear the lurgy is doing better now. I hope that this means you've turned the corner - and at least you can console yourself with the thought that you've got it out of the way well before surgery. Take loads of vitamin C and see if you can boost your poor immune system back up a bit. We have a third musketeer in July now - Impishgrin is back and will be getting his new ACL in between Tez and I. Tony is still waiting on word from his OS, but I believe July is likely for him too.

Kris - yikes, sounds like you're really back into the swing of things at work! Not sure I'd be capable of anything except contributing to the ineptitude so soon after surgery, so good on you. :) Hope it's not making you too tired.  Thanks for the reassurance on surgery time, too. It'll be a bitch getting out to Delta that early, but I think worth it.

Tez - welcome back!!! We missed you a lot. Sorry to hear the knee cranked at you on holiday, but glad that you had a good time otherwise. Sounds like you're more mentally ready for your big day than I am for mine - you'll have to let me into your secret!

Cosmic - may have to try and get some of that percutane. As a hot sauce fanatic I'm wondering how it would taste! ;) Congrats on the Vario - that's great news. Would love to see a pic of Cam's first-time dreads if you have one.

Flying update from me: climbed the Grouse Grind today for the first time since the ACL tear! My 64-year-old mum kept pace with us all the way. Sort of had the opposite effect of Tez's knee difficulties while walking in Spain - it made me feel almost normal! I think the knee is appreciating the fact that it's had a respite from the daily strengthening exercises while my folks have been here.

Today also brought good news and bad news. The good news is that I have a new niece or nephew on the way in January; needless to say this was the cause of great excitement both for us and for the soon-to-be-second-time-grandparents. Unfortunately we also had another trip back to the vet where we got some not-so-great news about Mara, who hasn't been doing too well. She's home again and seems happy for now, although we have a whole new regime of four assorted daily meds in addition to the current routine.

Hope you're all keeping well, and that everyone is having a comfortable knee night.

K xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 30, 2010, 09:39:11 AM
Morning all,

I shall reply more fully later - but just for entertainment, and wishing my onion OS was like this....and because I shall be watching him in action this afternoon..let us all celebrate the biceps..guaranteed to cheer any bad knee days....(in my brain anyway!)


Lottie x

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on June 30, 2010, 05:17:16 PM
Lottie - thank you for that!  ;D

Just a flying update to let you guys know that the OS's office just called, and I have my time - 7.45am on the 9th! I hope my OS is more of a morning person than I am...

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on June 30, 2010, 05:50:40 PM
woohooo!!! early birdy
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 30, 2010, 06:40:17 PM
Excellent news Snowy - is that first on the list? Far less time to fret and worry and it'll all be over and done by morning coffee!  ;D  I'm hoping to get on the first run for the onion chop too, I won't know til the Monday before but she says he appears to have a relatively quiet list so unless he favours a lie in I should be done quite early.  :D

It is all starting to feel quite real to me now, I've been frustrated with being ill as I'd really wanted to work the knees for a good fortnight prior to enforced inactivity for a while but I've just not been up to it. Aiming for a gentle gym session tomorrow if I can. Had asked my OS some questions via email and he seems to think being back in the gym for upper body by week 4 is achievable and on the static bike by week 5 if all is going well. Will depend on fusion or non fusion as to how much I can start doing, but I shall be working towards early mobility!  ;D  He also says even with fusion things like pilates are fine, and plank position is generally OK - if it isn't I shall be forced to do one legged push ups and planks, certainly work you hard!

Cosmic - saw your photos on fb today - awesome. I am seriously considering a move to the seaside. There may be the chance that R has work in South Wales/Bristol next year so it might not be as daft as it sounds. Vancouver looks far better though. I know he also wouldn't dismiss that idea.... ;) 

Snowy - thanks for you fb message too, I am so sorry Mara is a poorly kitty. I have paws crossed she pulls through but I know she will know she is being loved. I shall reply to you on fb - might want to pick your brains about a few things regarding Canada, but I know you're having a great time with your folks so it can wait til we are both - immobile!! Do you msn? 

Tez - how is the peeling nose?Has the liver function returned?! How are you feeling about July?

Kris - ahhh patella mobes.....the activity of the devil!!!  :o ::) :P

Vicks is off watching Kings of Leon tonight with a grumpy Neelie, so I shan't ask her anything!

Hugs to all, watched Nadal go through the tennis and get all sweaty and a bit angry at one stage. Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice!! ;D

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on June 30, 2010, 09:56:26 PM
Evening all hope everyone is doing ok
Snowy well done on grouse grind, it sounds like my idea of hell  ::) but I know you realy enjoy doing that walk or should I say climb so very impressed you managed it with a gubbed knee. I hope you and your parents are still having a good time it must be so nice to spend time together.
Lucky you getting an early morning slot for surgery I have been told to arrive at the hospital at 1pm so I guess thats me not getting done untill later in the day, maybe because I will be in for a couple of days they will leave me untill later, I assume the folk having day surgery will be done first to give them time to recover before being sent home.
Lottie really pleased you are feeling a bit better just be carefull and dont over do things cos these horrid bugs take a while to work out of you system. Your another one with a morning surgery time lucky you  ;D  are you kept in hospital for any time after the onion chopping or does it depend or how much work they do once in there?.
Cosmic good for you with your vario machine do you still class it as a form of torture or is it now your friend :) I cant believe its 6 weeks since your surgery you are stil an insperation to me even though your a bit younger and a lot fitter than I am I still look at how well you seem to be doing and it gives me hope that I too will manage to get back to doing all the things I love especially my long walks with Misty I feel so guilty about how much weight she has put on because her walks have been cut down so much.
At the moment I am feeling prety good about the up coming op I had a letter from the surgeon just going over the preop chat we had and again he has said he will start with the scope to have a good look at what is going on in the whole joint and then reconstruct the acl unless anything else shows up, that worries a little cos I dont want to have to go through another op at a later date but if there is something else wrong with my knee I deffo want that sorted if at all  possible. I'm sure it will all work out fine in the end.
Take care all Tez

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on June 30, 2010, 11:45:15 PM
Hey Tez

Don't be worried about the OS saying he needs to look around the knee to make sure everything else is OK. He is actually taking a really planned and methodcial approach and whilst I suspect it is the ACL (after all , the scope this year showed thats the damage) you want him to be 120% sure its the right time to do the ACLr rather than create bigger problems down the line. He is just being methodical - far better than a scalpel happy production line doctor. I have a smilarish situation - i won't know exactly what the onion man will do until he gets into the joint initially - he'll scope it (must have tiny toe cameras!!) and if the joint is OKish then the deformity will be corrected and cartilage tidied up; if its worn out, then its an open surgery and probably fusion. Kind of have to trust they'll do the best thing...I'll be placing bets on the fusion versus non fusion (in my head currently 70-30 odds!!). In answer to your question I'm scheduled to be overnight, thats standard for fusion as you have a nerve block in the foot, and I think even with a non fusion he likes to check the foot the next morning and they can manage the pain control. Must be because I am older too!!  ;D (40+ = overnight stay!!) Its £380 for the overnight stay so I am intending to eat as much as possible even if in severe pain or at least put the food in a bag for R to take home!! Cooked breakfast + morphine?! Bring it on!!!  8) :o

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 01, 2010, 12:52:13 AM
If they can do bacon chocolate, I'm sure they can do bacon morphine! ;)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 01, 2010, 04:17:10 AM
Thanks Lottie you as usual have made me feel a whole lot better about what the surgeon has said, I think this is how my worry about the op is showing up and I am getting fixated on this whole thing about doing the scope first, but as you said it is the best possible thing to happen because the first o.s [the scope man] stated afterward that he could see acl was ruptured and felt the mcl tear but he couldnt see what else was going on because of scar tissue whereas this new guy [aclr man] seems to have a wee dought that the acl is completely gone and something else is causing the problems I am having, saying that when I think about that appointment he had the old m.r.i up on the screen and was refering to that where the acl damage was not seen.
Oh well like you I will try to make the best of being in hospital mine is supposed to be very nice, it was built by a bunch or Arabs to be used by the private sector but the nhs took it over a few years ago and everything is state of the art so we shall see ::)
Snowy I have been meaning to ask you how Mara was doing I read somewhere that she is still a poorly kitty I 'm really sorry to hear that all our pets are so important to the whole family its horrid when one of them gets sick. How are you feeling about the upcoming drilling and cutting do you feel prepared yet???
Cosmic sorry for hijacking you diary again, we all seem to do that to you but as long as you know its only cos we care and feel  welcome here ;D
Take care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 01, 2010, 07:27:40 AM
Glad you're feeling reassured, Tez - I think Lottie has it spot on about why your OS is being cautious and what he needs to look for. The most important thing is that you go into hospital confident that you'll get the best possible treatment and will come out well ahead on the road to a happier and more stable knee.

Thanks for checking in on little Mara. Her situation is a bit complicated; the pancreatitis wasn't coming under control so we had to rush her back to the vet yesterday. This time we were able to take her to our own vet rather than emergency, and it turns out that she has a whole bunch of food intolerances (including kitty celiac disease) that meant she could no longer absorb her food. This was causing her to become seriously malnourished, and sending her blood sugar totally out of whack. She's on a new diet, has been prescribed prednisone and also has a whole bunch of different vitamins and supplements to get her system going again, and in just over 24 hours she's already doing way better.

That's the good news - the bad news is that something has to have caused all of this, and the vet thinks she may well have bowel cancer. However the only way to find out for sure would be a bunch of invasive tests, and the treatment would be exactly what we're doing now with the aim of preserving quality of life. So we're not going to put her through the tests; we're going to keep up the supportive care and just hope that it's enough to keep her happy and healthy.

With my parents here, I honestly haven't had much of a chance to think about the upcoming op or even do any additional preparation for it. It all feels a bit remote right now. I'm sure reality will come crashing down on Sunday when they head home and I only have four days left to get everything ready.  :o

Hope everyone's sore spots are happy and healthy tonight. Hugs to all.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 01, 2010, 02:53:19 PM
Hey all -

Tez - no probs with "hijacking" - I'm quite happy to put in a cameo appearance every so often  ;D. This post is like a 24hour cafe/bar, and is for all of us to sit at the forum table and enjoy our coffee and cake postings (or beer and cocktails if something stronger is required).

Tez- your specialist sounds bang-on. The only way to know what is going on in your knee is to get in there and look - he is very sensible not making any rash statements or false promises.... what he is doing is saying he will make an informed decision when he has more information. Can't say fairere than that. The hardest part for you is trusting him to make the decision on your behalf - but that is why he is your surgeon.

Snowy - Mara may be little but she has a warrior within. So glad that you have managed to identify a suitable diet and treatment plan, and hope that she continues to stabilise and flourish on it.

Vicks - are you ready for the big birthday celebs? The venue looks lush - as long as you guys are happy to go the few extra miles - it gives me extra minutes to be with you before having to scoot to OS appointment. Hows Neelie .... have you talked her out of her teenage angst yet? If so can you came and do the same for my Ele  :-[ ?

Lottie - today would have been our day - I've celebrated by cleaning and de-scaling the dishwasher! I do hope that you are feeling well recovered and are bouncing about with your normal humour (hmmm. .... I mean normal for you, everyone knows that your sense of humour isn't normal!)

Kris - I loved your bit on painful PT and big bad Brad  asking if just doing that hurt as  if you were "just sharing a piece of frikin apple pie" it made me guffaw  :D ....

I'm going to re-acquaint myself with the Vario tonight. Our relationship got off to a rocky start but we have reached a deep meaningful understanding, and I can see us entering a long term relationship  ;).

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 01, 2010, 07:26:00 PM
Hiya all

I have been a bit remiss in coming to the cafe  ;D  Not much new to report on the Neelie front unfortunately, still swollen, stiff, sore .  Can settle a little if I do do nothing, but as soon as I get up again, she soon gets cranky!  I went to see Kings of Leon last night in Hyde Park, daft numbers of people, most of whom were drunk and rowdy.  Neelie didn't like the uneven ground, tight space and constant battering of people pushing by.  >:(  I am getting too old for huge outdoor rock gigs in parks!  Also walked a reasonable distance to and from the station and then "run" for the train home.  I got a seat but very cramped, seriously uncomfortable being unable to straighten leg at all! Got off the train and could barely walk  :o  Went straight to bed, too late to ice, nice and stiff this am

I also made the mistake of squatting to pick up a toner cartridge from floor the other day at work...ouch ouch ouch!  :(
 The other annoying thing is my other leg is starting to complain while walking too, probably gait related.

Although I am going to persevere with the "rest" (I have been very good, no jogging, cycling at all), I am not feeling positive about recovery without intervention.  We have just won a big account at work and I am an integral part of the team, so I emailed my OS sec today to ask about implications of surgery. In general terms if I proceed to surgery, I would probably need  six weeks off work  :o of which the first 3 weeks you would be on crutches.  I would not be able to drive for six weeks.  In all, you would need a physiotherapy rehabilitation programme of about 3 months. :(  I presume that is rule of thumb and not specific to whatever surgery I end up with - be it MACI (no mention of 2 ops at the mo thank God) or the delightful sounding drilling and membrane combo!  I am not sure how anything with a membrane is done arthroscopically, so I guess that's why the longer time off and physio  :(  She says I would need to make an OS appointment to discuss the details

I need to discuss this with my boss and see when would be the least bad time to do this, I guess sooner rather than later before the account kicks off  ::)  Also if off for 6 weeks, I'd like to be able to recuperate in the garden ;)

Hopefully, I'll have the automatic car at the weekend if the Mini goes tomorrow (for less money than I'd hoped but I've had no other interest)

So that's the latest in the Neelie saga!

Looking forward to the 12th, especially pudding.  Lottie excited about fishfinger sandwiches too  ;D

Getting close for Tez and Snowy, good plan to keep busy to keep mind off surgery.  I shall leave as little time as possible before mine to avoid worry, but enough time to tie up work stuff!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 01, 2010, 08:16:38 PM
Vicky so glad you popped into Cosmics cafe for a wee chat ;)
Sorry your gig wasn't a huge sucsess last night I think we have all come across something we always loved to do but since the knee packed in the pleasure has gone.
I think from what you have said here and from what we have chatted about on F.B you are going to have to have the surgery for any kind of normal life without pain. at least your in the good position that you can fit any surgery round when it suits best at work
So is it just a matter of sorting out the timeing  and what exactly you will have done, or are you still a wee bit undecided about whether you are doing the right thing?? ??? ???
As for you birthdat expedition on the 12th I will expect a blow by blow account of how it goes and lots of photos just so I can see what I have missed ;D
Cosmic you Lottie and Snowy are all very wise women and of course you are all right I need to trust my surgeon and trust that he will do the best thing for me,, sorry for the worry but I think its the pre op jitters..
Kris how about big bad Brad is he still torturing you??
Take care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 01, 2010, 08:41:46 PM
Greetings again

This thread can be serialised one day into a chick lit novel!

Tez - pre op jitters are totally normal. When i think about the onion op my tummy actually does a little flip. It has been so well behaved whilst I have been ill, but today i went to the retail park for about 30 minutes then the gym for very gentle cycling and some mat work and its sore as hell. The downside is that the other onion is also sore as hell too, but in a different way. the right one is seriously arthritis ridden, the left one is just sore and needs straightening but that won't be done til at least 3 months after the other one, more like 6 months in my mind!

Cosmic - I so wish I'd been able to visit this week but the seaside will still be there after the onion recovers! Glad the dishwasher got a good clean though - but not as cool as cake and coffee and ice cream on the beach......hope the Vario machine treated Stumpy kindly........looking forward to the 12th, I might need some hefty pud therapy....

Vicks - sounds like Neelie might be in for the chop. That rehab protocol sounds like drilling plus a membrane to me, very similar to Cartifill. No need for extended NWB and shorter rehab. MACI is about 6 weeks NWB if its a condyle WB area. Be sure to check out with him outcomes of this technique and implications if it should not work plus does it generate better quality cartilage....

Snowy - I hope the sight seeing is going well and Mara is hanging in there.....not long for you either now, hope you are feeling OK. Soon we'll look back on these posts and think how far forwards we are.

I bought some of the Regenovex supplement today - Tez mentioned it a while back. Not cheap, and you need to take 2 tablets a day for 10 days then 1 tablet for the follow up. At £30 for 30 tablets thats a quid a day....but if it helps it is worth it.....time will tell. I also got the gel they make as it was 3 for 2, and some bone calcium supplements to help the onions heal! My onion OS has said he will give me a steroid shot in the other less bad onion for free whilst I am asleep. I am seriously tempted to ask him to jab the knees as well..... ;D

Right then, time for Holby, love watching people die in surgery.....eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk  ::) :o :o :P :-[

Hugs to all

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on July 02, 2010, 11:07:44 AM
Hi ladies! Happy Friday to you and it's my last check in before I get out of town for a week!

Vicky, I am so jealous you got to see KoL, I have missed their shows here twice now. They sort of look like the family might be a little inbred but I love them nonetheless! Sorry that Neelie wasn't up to it. And what are you doing bending for cartridges, as they say, there are people to do that. They're called the "well kneed!" Keep resting. It seems like you have some viable surg options although I still don't get what the "membrane" thing is! Rehab sounds totally sensible based on what I hear in my constant travels to the orthopedic center.

For the past week or so I have been looking into something called "Triflex," which I think is the same or a similar thing to regenovex. There's a deal going on at the vitamin store so maybe will give it a go. Haven't tried supplements before since I never really had a diagnosis but the research seems pretty positive from what I can see. Tez have you had results with it?

I felt like Big Brad had a major attitude on Wednesday, I don't know if he was just having a bad day or what, but he called me "Little Miss Sassypants" and accused me of being a whiner... I really almost walked out. I suppose I can dish it but not take it, I have given him plenty of attitude over the past months of PT for sure!

Fortunately (or unfortunately, as it were) I had a bad night of stiffness and achiness (I suspect there's a bunch of freakin fluid in the joint again after I just had 2 really good days) so I am looking forward to him torturing me and sorting it out today. Could use some of his patented muscle stretching as well, and that one really hurts. It will be 12 hours in the van from my house to my parents' tomorrow so I need my kneetard to be in tip-top condition.

I hope you all have a great week- I'll be missing til the 11 or 12... looking forward to catching up on all of your adventures- happy birthday Vick and oh my goodness it will be gear-up time for tez and snowy when i return. exciting times ladies.

hugs to all!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 02, 2010, 11:38:12 AM
I have spoken to my boss and he says to do it soon as summer is quieter for us workwise, OS on holiday last 2 weeks of August so I guess we are talking early August, I think July is just too soon!

It is a scope procedure, but not sure on the details, won't be able to fly for 3 months post due to the increased risk of DVT and physio protocol.  I have asked secretary to make an appointment for me ...

Oh dear...  :(

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 02, 2010, 12:41:51 PM
Vicks you'll be a late entrant into the 2010 summer of rehab but we'll give you honorary membership!  8)

Might need to keep those crutches then hey?  :P :o :'(

Best to see OS and see what he says. Neelie is clearly misbehaving and affecting normal life things. OK, if she just stopped you say..running, or lifting weights or only ached after walking all day, then its easier to see how she goes. But she is getting you down so its best to check out options. Get a rehab protocol from the OS for whatever he is suggesting - Mr Silly-Putty has a 3 month regime he showed me, is very useful to see the expected goals and points of progress.

By August the onion will be straight so will be on hand for msn conversations and sharing of swelling management.

Kris - Little Miss Sassypants - awesome.  ;D ;D :P


PS Regenovex smells like a slightly chemically dead haddock.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 02, 2010, 01:44:50 PM
Indeed, OS appointment tomorrow...I am thinking maybe 9 August for the chop and drill  :'(  Another month, and Neelie may miraculously recover!  :-\

At least I can recuperate in the garden.  Scope, so only little plasters for a week to stop my tanning  ;D

I will need the sticks indeed, so Lottie, you'll have to buy your own  :P

Haddock Bob, have the mogs had lick of him yet? ;)

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 02, 2010, 02:59:51 PM
I'm about to take Haddock Bob and the Onions to the gym for some steady pedalling with the tennis. Makes the pedalling far more enjoyable!  ;D

How does the doc get a membrane up a scope instrument?! He must be very dextrous!!! What is the membrane made of? is it stitched into place? Or glued? Shetty has a power tube to inject the cartifill via scope, but can't yet do it onto the patella because of the angle of dangle - 2011 brings the year of kneecap silly putty.  8)

9th August. Ooooerrrr. What a bunch of bloody surgery veterans we all are this summer.  :o

I've just remembered I have Cosmic's spare crutches in the boot - need some ferrells but I must get some and start practising. I hope they don't expect me to crutch down stairs, I don't do stairs down properly anyway with Bob let alone with a busted foot and two sticks. It will be the bottom shuffle central for me for the first week or two.  :P

right then Murray, take your medicine and get knocked out!!  :P

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 02, 2010, 04:16:50 PM
Hey knee friends,

Quick check in before we head out for today's sight-seeing. Had an epic Canada Day barbecue at our place yesterday - three generations of J's family, two generations of mine - fun, but our poor place looks like a bomb hit it and we have enough leftover food for a small army. Sockeye salmon with west coast garlic rub, anyone?

Vickster - that's scary but also, I hope, hopeful - you've clearly given Neelie every chance to mend her ways without surgical intervention, and if it's not happening then it's definitely time to look at next steps. Hopefully it will be short-term pain for long-term gain. I am also very curious about how the drilling/membrane option works!

I think that now makes Kris and Cosmic the only ones who are over and done with their surgery. The rest of us still have it to look forward to. This time next week I'll be in theatre - eep! In retrospect I should have tried to leave a longer gap between my parents' visit and surgery; I am actually feeling quite woefully unprepared right now, and I know I'm not going to have time to do anything about that until Monday at the earliest.

Kris - that's the way I feel about the IMS treatments from my PT. They're awful, but they really do help the ongoing knee pain. A friend of mine actually had to quit the IMS because she couldn't stand the sensation, and when I told my PT he said "What a wimp!" He's a tough guy, but good at what he does. Best of luck with the car journey!

Lottie - I couldn't get Regenovex here but have found something called Osteo Joint Ease that contains almost the same mix of ingredients. It smells very odd and the pills are the size of a small car, but I'm plugging gamely away with it. Although today is the day I have to come off all my NSAIDs, so I think I may have to stop taking that as well - it has natural anti-inflammatories in it and I'm not sure how they would be for surgery.

Treated myself to a Canada Day beer yesterday, but now it's back on the wagon (I quit alcohol and coffee about 3 weeks ago) until the deed is done and the worst of the swelling is gone.

Alright, time to head out for today's sightseeing. We're going whale-watching in Steveston, which should be pretty awesome.

Take care all,

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on July 02, 2010, 04:52:49 PM
Oh no! I'm missing Kay's day! Grrr... I assume that I knew this and blocked it out? Also I never know what day it is.

So I've snuck back in to wish you the best of luck, hope everything goes smoothly as I'm sure it will. Take it easy this week if you can, I know you're going to want to run around getting everything prepped but cold-turkey on the anti inflammatories brings its own brand of fun doesn't it? Glad you had one last beer- I was clinging to mine til the last possible second but I never claimed to be a "medical professional."

Hugs squeezes and lots of good pain meds to you! Can't wait to read a success story next weekend  ;)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 02, 2010, 07:09:52 PM
Snowy - the Regenovex pills are small, but the gel is weird. Smells OK when it goes on, but I've just been at the gym and when my knees got hot an aroma of stale shellfish was rising!!! Eeeek!!!!  ::) :o

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 02, 2010, 07:21:30 PM
I don't know how themembrane scope thing works either, scrunched up, rolled up and inserted some how, no clue...I guess  I'll find out if the drilling/membrane is the plan  ???  I can only go on the face that he has mentioned drilling before and his latest letter mentions the membrane.  This suggests it is glued and pinned in place
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 02, 2010, 07:32:56 PM
A quickie ladies as gym shuts a 9pm tonight so I have to "run" ..... it's taken me 10 mins to catch up with the thread!!

Be careful with your supplements and alternative meds - some have blood thinning effects - I was advised at my pre-op (10 weeks before surgery) to come off all of the ones I was taking (even the arnica!)!!!!

Check with your OS if in doubt!!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 02, 2010, 08:23:47 PM
Evening all first day back at work and when I eventually get on to read whats been going on our Vicky has made all sorts of plans and decisions  :D I am so pleased that you have taken that step to get neelie sorted once and for all. yet another plus for me is someone else to chat to during the time when I'm gonna be off [I know thinking of myself and how it will suit me selfish selfish selfish ;D]Seriously I shall have to do a bit of reading abour exactly what you will be having done cos at the moment I dont really understand al the tech terms.
Kris if you get a chance to see this before you go away I hope you have a fantastic holibags and that 12 hour drive aint too bad for the knee ;) also big bad Brad calling you names you tell him I'm coming over to sort him out even if the name he called you fits quite well ;D.
Snowy your b.b.q sounds like fun I think the stuff left over is always the same when you have any kind of a do, if your anything like me I always get far too much stuff when I'm entertaining. The time is really running out for you know and I know you feel your not going to have time to do everything you feel you need to do before you surgery but dont worry you'll be fine, really when you think about it what else do you have to do, from what your told us the house is sorted and Jen will be there when you have had your op to get you anything you still need.
Lottie I havent got around to getting the Regenovex yet It was a client of mine who was raving about it. so will be interested to know how you get on with it. How are you feeling about the upcoming op do you feel as if you are ready?
Cosmic how are you doing how is the extension coming along? what about your invention are you ready to get a patent for it yet ::) ::)
Take care all Tez    
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 02, 2010, 08:32:20 PM
Sorry forgot to say I havent been told to stop taking anything I am still taking tramadol, paracetamol and Ibuprofen, not at the same time I may add ::) well not always :-[
Do you all think I should be checking that out cos nothing has been said to me about anything like that??
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 02, 2010, 10:57:40 PM
I've also not been told to stop taking anything....I shall check with Mr Onion on Monday....I haven't had any tramadol for a while but still take paracetemol and ibuprofen as required..... ??? (and just started my Regenovex...)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 02, 2010, 11:31:36 PM
I can't remember if I was before scope, but then I was only taking the antibiotics for my pre-op sinus infection  ::)

Looking at the paperwork from last time, says to discuss with doctor if taking warfarin, aspirin or anti-diabetic drugs

Normally, it is just NSAIDs and especially anything with aspirin as thins blood.  I guess you don't want to be loaded up with any narcotics either, don't want to OD due to post op meds
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 03, 2010, 12:32:21 AM

It was the alternative stuff I was asked to stop ...the glucosamine/chondriotin/arnica/bromelian/hyaluronic acid/Omegas 3-6-9 etc etc.

Will update over the weekend on confusing NHS PT today - threw a spanner in MR OCDs information  :-\. Sometimes the search for truth is not straightforward.

Ho hum, big day today - Ele is playing in Bournemouth Music festival competing with 5 pieces for Young Pianist of the Year  :o :D :-\

Night all


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: ouch09 on July 03, 2010, 01:35:59 AM
I feel like I'm treading into "the space that men should not tread" by writing in this thread  ;D

Interestingly I wasn't asked to stop taking the Glucosamine/Chondroitin prior to the op, but perhaps I should have.

I did read somewhere (can't find the reference now but I think it was from here that general anaesthesia is not as effective if there is alchohol or recreational drugs in the blood stream, which is apparently why the anaesthetist asks you before surgery how many units of alchohol or recreational drugs you take per week, so he/she can up the dose of anaesthetic if you're a "regular".

I was going to have a few beers the night before the op to relax, but changed my mind when I read about this.  :)

Cosmic, good luck for tomorrow's big day - Young Pianist of the Year eh ?! :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 03, 2010, 03:43:05 AM
Cosmic you must be so proud of Ele I really hope she does well :D You seem to have a very talented musical family do they get that from you?? Steph is really the only musician in out family and I ofter wonder where that comes from, I would love to be able to play an instrament but sadly I never learnt and I find now the old brain struggels to take in new information  ;)
Very interesting about NHS physio confusion tell us more!!???
Deepak I'm sure I speak for all who enter Cosmics cafe to say you are very welcome here as long as you behave yourself and there's not too much manly behaviour from you we wont mind you popping in  :P but you had better check with the proprieter our lovely Cosmic just to make sure ??? ::) :P
Take care Tez         
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 03, 2010, 07:21:02 AM
Wind-burned, sunburned Snowy checking in, what a day! We took a fast Zodiac boat for about 2 hours through the Gulf Islands into Washington state, saw a whole pod of orcas hanging out near San Juan island including three babies playing chase, then bought the biggest pile of spot prawns at the docks and had a feast when we got home. I think my parents are starting to understand why I moved to Canada. ;)

With regard to the medications, I was told to cut all the NSAIDs a full week before surgery. They act as blood-thinners, so it's fairly important. I forgot to ask about the supplements but am going to cut those too to be on the safe side. You're supposed to ensure that your system is clear of alcohol before the surgery, too - not only because it renders the anesthetic less effective but because it also acts as a blood thinner. (Ever had a tattoo after a heavy drinking night? It's really messy.) A few days without booze is actually sufficient to clear the system, but I've been avoiding it for a while as part of my efforts to stay on an anti-inflammatory diet.

If any of you haven't been given specific advice about avoiding meds, it's definitely worth a quick check in. It probably depends on the individual condition and doctor, but the advice I got about the NSAIDs definitely makes sense.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 03, 2010, 09:48:43 AM
Hi Ouch09 and welcome to the world of wittery women  ;D

I am not sure August is going to work for me - as I live alone, I am going to need my mum to help me out (either here or I go to my parents' house depending on whether I need to be at the hospital a week post op like last time).  'Mother care services INC' not available 16th August - 4 Sept, and OS on hols last 2 weeks of August.  So perhaps the 6 September will be Black and Decker drill and membrane day (gives me more time to lose a bit more weight too).  Not prepared either workwise or mentally for July!

Seeing OS in an hour and half, so will discuss the practicalities - whether it is nwb on the crutches  (in which case I'll deffo need mummy!) , what the rehab protocol is etc.  Work will have to lump it.
I can't believe I am nearly 38 and reliant on mummy to look after me !!  ::)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 03, 2010, 12:43:52 PM
Back from interesting appointment with OS...

My knee isn't fixable, it'll never be the same and I won't be able to kneel comfortably...but it is helpable.  I think if the knee wasn't swollen and sore, then leave but we discussed the surgical option.

OK, he explained the procedure.  It is probably an open incision - it can be done by scope but is very fiddly, depends on whether the lesion can be accessed (still not sure how the membrane is inserted that way but has a special tool).  Would go in assuming open.  It is one procedure, the fibrocartilage is debrided, the area is microfractured (eek) and the membrane fixed in place with dissolvable pins.   The stem cells from the MFX embed in the membrane and form new tissue over time.  He game me this brochure and told me to read up on it.

For those who like to read, more here...

He now does this instead of MACI which he used to do, same principle, but one just produces own stemcells, rather than taking, sending off to be cultured, impregnated into membrane, implanted.  Hence, just one op not two.

In terms of success, hard to say as a) quite new b) depends on lesion site.  Definitely doesn't work on patella due to shearing forces, but thinks my lesion is far enough away from the traccking of the patella

Post op protocol, 3 weeks off leg (assume minimal weight bear), at least 6 weeks off work (should be ok after 6 but could be longer).  3 month physio (didn't run through specifics).  No flying for 3 months - increased risk of DVT plus he said he'd rather I was around if there was a problem  :-\  I need to continue with the rest :( so the knee isn't inflamed for op.

He would also clean up the back of my patella a bit more.

Possible sticking point - not all insurance companies will pay for this as the membrane is very expensive and although CE marked, it is still an experimental procedure.  It may or may not be funded on the NHS given the curent situation with cuts etc and there would be a long wait.  Other option I guess, self fund!   :o

The only other option is drilling but just produces more fibrocartilage and low chance of success.  And if unseccessful, it affects the surrounding bone and renders it unsuitable for this other op. Ugh

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 03, 2010, 04:31:58 PM
Vicky I just read your post on the general thread and asked a load of questions that you have just answered on here so ignore my other post, cos I think you just covered everything I was asking :P
Thats not so good about the insurance possibly not covering this because it definatly looks like a pretty good option so I really hope you manage to get things sorted out so that you can go ahead with it.
As for relying on your Mum I think you will definatly need the help at home from her when you are on crutches so I guess you have to schedual things for when she can be there with you. I dont think it matters how old we all get we all still need our Mums from time to time.
Take cre Tez 
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 03, 2010, 04:42:46 PM
Wow, Vicks - that's quite the procedure. I'm going to go through the more detailed information when I have a bit more time, but it's a very interesting alternative to some of other options I've been reading about. Definitely a bonus  only having to have a one-stage procedure. The post-op regime also doesn't sound too bad compared to some of them, though I'm sure the three weeks on crutches will drag horribly.

When the doc says your knee "isn't fixable, but is helpable" - what's he predicting in terms of outcome? Will you be able to go back to doing all the things you enjoy? If Neelie was able to support you getting out and about on your bike, not being able to kneel wouldn't be the end of the world.

Will keep my fingers crossed on the insurance/NHS options. What would something like this cost to self-fund?

Hope you're able to get a date figured out soon. For me at least, things became a lot easier once I had a definite date - I felt like I had a specific goal to aim for, which helped.

Take care,

K xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 03, 2010, 06:17:53 PM sounds like cartifill to some degree, but Shetty will do that on the patella as it is hard from the start. This sounds like the matrix will still be maleable hence the need for 3 weeks NWB. Very interesting that MFX trashes the bone rendering this type of fix unsuitable. It does sound like a viable option. The other thing I would be researching is OATS. OK, I know it robs peter to pay paul but it has good outcomes on focal lesions, and will be covered by insurance. Has he mentioned this at all? The great thing about OATS is that if the graft takes, you have hyaline cartilage - should be robust and good as new. See Dad3's diary - very good outcome on his and also another girl on here, great OATS outcome on a similar lesion. Personally, if I only had the grade 4 femoral lesion, I would be looking at OATS rather than the drilling plus something - but seeing as I have patella and that is pretty limited options (MACI/ACI 50% success rate) and cartifill seems a possible I will probably end up with all of the holes being done in that way.

What I like about your chap is that he is honest - refreshing yet somewhat hard to take to hear someone say the knee might never be the same again. In  honesty once you've damaged it, and had surgery, it won't be a perfect knee. Same with denegeration - nothing is going to get my knee back to how it was when I was 14! Even sports people back at high level competing after joint surgery will have some limitations, however small that may be.  :-\  he is being realistic but he clearly thinks things could be improved.  :D

I would actually say seek a second opnion, not because I think there is anything wrong with this guy at all, but because there are different ways to treat these types of lesions and all OSs have their own preference and their own biases. Sometimes their preference might not be the best option for your particular knee but until you get other views it is hard to tell. One thing I'd flag up is whether this matrix gel has been peer reviewed yet as well, what do other docs think of it? cartifill has not yet been peer reviewed and I am interested to find out more when this happens. Does he have any outcome data yet? eg predicted sucess rates..I know it depends on lesion size and location but does he have any cohort studies out?

Self funding - well cartifill comes in about £6,000 or so but that is via scope, MACI has been mentioned on here at £15, perhaps someway inbetween....

Not kneeling is not a huge issue, kneel on the other knee or don't pick up things under desks! And gardening is over rated, I rarely kneel as Bob doesn't like it much.......he'll do it, but he isn't happy.  :'(

Decisions....... ???

My admission details have come through for the onion, which, typically, is being well behaved today even with walking about a NT garden, some shopping and some knows!!!  :o  Got some ends for Cosmic's spare crutches so thats my mission for this evening - practice!

Hope all is good with folks,

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 04, 2010, 12:15:19 AM
Hey all ...

Apologies if this terminates part way through as it's been a long, adrenalised, emotional day ..... I may just fall asleee      zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz   zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz     zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 04, 2010, 12:40:09 AM
Only joking  ;D .

Deepak of course you are welcome in Cosmic's Cafe - the more the merrier :-)))

Vicks - wow, what a lot of information to process. I'd tend to agree with Lottie - a second opinion may be useful, not because you don't think this guy would do a good job but it may just give you other options.
My Mum stayed with me for 3 nights after the ACLr, and then popped in each day for a bit of general domestics and teenager chivvying for the rest of the first week. She and I had some lovely chats - heart to hearts, a chance to say things we may not have made time to say otherwise. She was really glad for the chance to help out, to be my Mum. At 41 years old it was still a treat to be tucked up by my mother. Makes me wonder how I managed without her after the original injury and the first operation.

Ele's performance was good, but she made a couple of technical errors which she was really cross about. I was very proud as she kept her composure and continued performing even though I could see she was disappointed and angry. Much like with our knees - sometimes you learn more when things don't go quite so smoothly, when the odds are stacked against you... anyway - the guy that won was nearly 16years old (they had to be max 15years) - Ele is just 12. He's played for 8 years, Ele's played for 19 months. He was playing grade 8 music and clearly a very accomplished performer (minimum required was grade 4), Ele was grade 5&6. The other competitors had all played for at least 5 years. When you take it all into account she did superbly... but sadly she just knew that she could have done better on the day.

So - my NHS PT appointment. I gently enquired about some of the information from Mr OCD and had some conflicting info.

1) my good hyperextending knee considered to be at 0o when fully extended (not -10o)
2) my bad knee will not have been reconstructed to 0o as per Mr OCD - but just to make it stable and strong( she said that the length of the new ACL is relatively insignificant, and that it was just the position of the tunnels which is important - at his point alarm bells were ringing!
3) I should be aiming to match the extension of my bad knee to my good - ie I am 15o off full extension.
4) Because I had problems extending before ACLr it is unlikely I will reach the same extension as the good leg. I do wonder sometimes if I should have taken the Mr Condom OS route and had a surgical procedure to try to straighten it before ACLr. I'll never know!

No joke - just fell asleep at the keyboard (in bed typing on laptop) so must switch off.

Hope you all happy chappies whatever time of day or night it is with you.


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 04, 2010, 07:38:20 AM
It's late here too and I'm just taking a few moments to check in before passing out on the iPad (that sounds like some kind of hormonal disaster.) Had a lovely last dinner with the parents; their time here has flown and it's hard to believe that they're heading home tomorrow.

Cosmic  - I meant to say before - total kudos to Ele! Whatever happened on the day she clearly did phenomenally well just to make it to the finals at 12 years old. She'll have other chances and if she's this good now, she'll undoubtedly be taking home the trophy before long. You must be immensely proud of her; both the talent and the courage.

That's too bad about all the conflicting advice. Would the OS be able to shed light on who is right? As you say, no point worrying about what you could have done now; better just to focus on the knee you have and what it needs for the best possible recovery.

For any of you working on balance, my mum taught me a simple and very effective exercse - just try standing on one leg with your eyes closed! It's ridiculously hard (and I can now do 30 tennis ball catches while standing on the wobble board on my bad leg.) Doing it on the wobble board is impossible.

Take care all, and bear with me if I go into some kind of pre-surgery meltdown once reality hits tomorrow night.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 04, 2010, 08:06:30 AM
Hey Snowy -

Glad your parent's visit has gone so well - it certainly looks like you have seen some beautiful sights. The comment about your last supper made me painted a vaguely ethereal and saintly  ;).

OS appointment is on the 12th - but I am scheduled to see a registrar - which doesn't bode particularly well as the information I've had from previous registrar appointments has been flakey and contrite at best. I'll see if this appointment is any more successful and then speak to OS secretary after if necessary.

I think the bottom line is that ideally it would be good to have two matching knees. Whether it is expected that grump Stumpy returns to her original -10o or not won't stop me trying to get her there and just getting on with "stuff" in the meantime. Expectations are strange things, sometimes they can spur you on, sometimes they can be limits to your possibilities.... if I don't expect to reach -10 again then I probably never will.

I am very proud of Ele. She makes me laugh so much - I am a natural optimist, she is pessimistic. She gets so frustrated with me because I turn around things for the good, so whilst she just wanted to languish in her disappointment yesterday I was going through all the positives that had come out of the experience..."Mum,will you please just let me be sad for a bit!!"

Oh yes - the eyes closed balance - I used to get my TKD and KB classes doing that - you just need to make sure that you have plenty of space around each student LoL. Try doing it with the lifted leg in different positions; bent and lifted to the front, side, back; straight lifted to the front, side, back. Then doing it with your lifted leg moving - drawing circles, figures of eight, slowly swinging across your body and outwards, swinging forwards and backwards. Then with the standing leg on tiptoe (aaaagghhh!).

As for pre-op meltdown ...a very wise Tez said to me (when I got to the stage pre-op where I felt I had film credit style to-do lists rolling in my head).... don't worry, whatever you don't get done will either wait for you or be sorted by someone else. Do you know what...she was right!

..... Exciting times ahead in Cosmic's Cafe ...... ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 04, 2010, 01:41:05 PM
Cosmic I'm not often called wise so thak you for thar ;D
You sound a bit like me I am also quite optomistic and I always try and look at the bright side of anything I also annoy my kids with this especially Steph must be a something to do with the musical temprement ::)
Good for Ele getting as far as she did and as you have said shes not been playing that long compared with others, I'm sure her time will come, even to have the confidence and ability to take part at 12 is amazing I dont know about you but sometimes I look at Steph and wonder where all that confidence comes from I cant imagine doing half the things she does ::) ::)
Wee question about the lost extension how much will it effect your day to day life if it stays as it is? this is all a bit confusing to me I think because I have never been into anything very sporty I have never had to think much about my body apart from will I fit into my jeans or not ;)????
Snowy I wil have to try the balance thing not the I think it will be very sucsessful an that is the one thing I have strugeled with since injury my balance is pants not too sure if this is somethin new post injury or maybe I always had crap balance!! could be a     contabuting factor to the fall in the first place, when I thing about it I have always been a bit clumsy!! who knows
I hope your not going to miss your folks too much once theyre gone cos as Cosmic says it's nice to have them in your life especially your Mum. My sister and I kinda mother each other a bit to make up for my Mum not being able to.
Take care Tez     
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: ouch09 on July 05, 2010, 12:45:08 AM
Cosmic, sorry to hear that Ele didn't win, but as Kay said just the fact that she qualified is a huge achievement.

You say she's playing grade 5/6 after only picking up the piano 19 months ago ? That's amazing ! Had she played another instrument before ? If not, she truly is a fast learner !
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 05, 2010, 07:54:47 AM
Hah - our family is definitely a long way from etheral and saintly (although my dad is a lapsed Benedictine monk - he spent three years in a silent order, but bailed two days before taking his final vows. Just as well, really.) Saw the folks off at the airport this evening - my mum was a little weepy but I tried very hard to convince her to see it not as goodbye but just "see you next time." We're a long way away in terms of distance, but the funny thing is that I actually stay in much closer contact with my family now than I did when I lived in London. The time difference is  very conducive to regular phone calls as I'm a night owl and my mum likes to get up early, whereas in London I lived a bit of a crazy lifestyle with my ex (who was a musician) and it was often really hard to connect. I do miss my family (and friends) in the UK a lot, but I think that the Internet has really stopped geographic distances mattering as much as they once did. I don't feel that far away, which is nice.

Cosmic - love the description of Ele asking you to just let her be sad - my younger sister was just the same! I got the optimism gene, for which I'm grateful. :) Your kids both sound very awesome. Your description of the eyes closed drill reminds me of when J and I used to do blindfold katas in our martial arts classes. The goal was to end up in the same place you finished, but I don't know that I ever did. Katas were never my strong point (as a martial artist I had a lot of power, but no grace) and I had enough problems getting back to the start point with my eyes open. Regarding the knees, I think your approach is perfect. No point in settling for less when it's still early days and anything is possible.

Vickster - somewhere in the mayhem of my folks' visit I completely missed that you went to see Kings of Leon! I'm insanely jealous. There are very few bands I would go to see live now (I overdosed a bit while living with the musician) but I would go to see them in a heartbeat. I discovered them last summer and they were the soundtrack for our packing, move, and the floor laying and painting in our new condo. As a result their music has a very strange associative emotion of a sort of delighted exhaustion for me, and I will always love them dearly.

Tez - clumsy is after my own heart! I think my balance is probably better now than it's ever been from all the PT, but it's still not very good. Wobble boards are fantastic for a cheap and easy way of working on balance, although I don't imagine they'll be recommended in the immediate aftermath of surgery. And Cosmic is right - you're definitely wise. You've been the source of some of the most practical and grounded advice I've had on this forum. :)

No big pre-surgery panic yet, although I'm sure it's coming. (Is it bad that I was wondering if I should leave J instructions on how to post on KG if something goes wrong?) ???

I'm rambling - it's been a very busy (though lovely) 10 days and I'm very tired. One piece of good news before I go - little Mara is showing some signs of improvement. She's put a little weight on and seems to be processing food a bit better. It's good to see her seeming more like herself again.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 05, 2010, 03:34:57 PM
Snowy well your preop mania has hit me at last I have just spent the last 6 hours gutting the 2 rooms in our house that I dread having to do.. Stephs bedroom and the den, Steph is supposed to do her room herself and she does to a small extent tidy it , but her idea of doing her room is stacking everything in the corner of the room and shoving everything under her bed I have just removed 5 glasses a load of plates and 3 bin bags full of rubbish unfortunatly it wasen't just a matter of dumping all the papers in the bin cos she writes songs ALL THE TIME she has bits of paper with song words all over the room so I had to seperate every bit of paper and decide if it was rubbish or potencialy  the next big hit ;D ... as for the den I never go in there its what was the garage that we converted a few years ago for the kids to bring their friend etc, its on the ground floor with the only down stairs toilet and non over bath shower cubical so I decided I had better get it into some kind of order as its where I am going to have to shower after my op.. Yet again the kids are suppose to keep it clean & tidy.. well I think their idea of tidying is shoving everything under the sofa and behind the t.v, it was full of crisp bags drink cans, bottle tops, etc, etc, and there had obviously been drinks spilt many times that were dried up but never cleaned up properly.. Now its clean and tidy I am tempted to ban everybody from using it untill I can manage to get into my own bathroom shower again.. 
Oh and your not alone in wondering about getting J to learn how to post on KG just in case.. I was also thinking that!! well not J of course but Dougie.. so glad i'm not the only one with thoughts like that  ???
Good news about Mara hope she continues to improve at least that one less thing to worry about before you op..

Take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 05, 2010, 10:29:55 PM
Blimey I need a please, Cosmiclandlady  ;D

Sold the Mini tonight.  Got £500 more than the p/ex so am happy  8) .  Collect the Golf on Saturday so am carless.  The temptation to commute on the 2 wheeled death machine is strong!  :-[

Snowy - I like KoL on CD, not sure about them live...very static on stage, no very charismatic performers which was a shame given there were 60k people there!  Yeah, and most of them bashed into me and threw beer bottles which it me on the head  >:(  It may have been better in a more intimate indoor venue

Review of gig here

I have to say The Killers are far better live  8)  I also prefer their stuff I think generally and Brandon is lush (albeit short)

Getting a bit more info about the op - 1-2 nights in hospital depending on time of surgery (the hospital has wifi fortunately), physio starts 2-3 weeks post op.  Need to confirm the funding (I now have a code, osteochondral grafting, sounds inocuous enough eh) and then decide on a date - 6 or 13 September. I have tickets for Last Night of Proms (yeah, I do classical as well as rock and hip hop folks  ;D ) on the 11th, kind of like to go as that'll presumably be my hardcore gig going swansong for 2010!  Not sure bouncing at concerts is part of the rehab protocol!

You lasses are all mad with your pre-op cleaning.  I think I just about ran the dishwasher before my scope  ;D

Hope the onions and knees are behaving well.  Neelie is strangely calm, she is scared!

...OK...edit...I spoke too soon about calm neelie - she had a meltdown as soon as I went to bed, pain in lower leg and foot, have slept like utter c*** , despite popping 2 paracetamol after tossing and turning for ages :'(  I did get to sleep eventually only to wake again about 3 hours later and then more insomnia...I've had maybe 5 hours sleep :(  This pain at night is a recent phenomenon, regardless of which side I lie on...why??? I was having second thoughts about the op, I think she has to be for the chop!! 

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 06, 2010, 05:38:45 PM
Vicky not happy about the pain you had last night, but kinda happy it's given you the incentive to have the op, I think you were wearing yourself out with all the will I, wont I, and the worry of are you doing the right thing. ::)
I think sometimes the old knee's flair up just at the right time to remind us why we are going down the surgical road.
Night time is when my knee is at its worse so you have my sympathy :'( and had I known you were up unable to sleep last night we could have finished our conversation from earlier in the evening... cos I was up as usual playing more daft games on FB
take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 06, 2010, 07:50:38 PM
Hello world,

How is everyone doing? Vicks I hope Neelie behaves better tonight - perhaps a nice treat of some choc might help her sleep....sounds like the decision has been made for chopping. Will he do another MRi at all? Just seems so weird that you get so much swelling and pain from a lateral lesion alone - my knee is covered in lesions and never swells, Neelie really is an odd beast.  ::) :P  Just think if it wasn't the lesion but a simple meniscus trim again when he gets in there! Awesome!!  ;D  I had a bout of night pain with Bob when he was very angry after last year's physio bashed him and tried to manipulate the patella. It was a bitch - I found stretching before bed, and icing as I fell asleep helped (wrapped up - obviously don't want frozen leg and probably not quite solid ice to start with!!), also combo of paracetemol and ibuprofen might help kick it into touch at night.

Tez - how are you doing? How you feeling about the 19th? Has the suntan faded yet?!  8)

Snowy - so glad little Mara is having a better time, she is a little trooper. I saw your pics of the Grind yesterday and have to say - awesome work! I shall expect you to be grinding up there on crutches by Day 7!! How are you feeling? Its all quite real in my head now especially as I had my invoice from the hospital to pay - happy days! Oh so many more exciting things i could spend that cash on...but hey, the onion needs some love and attention and soon it will be straight for the first time in many years. I think what is weird with these elective type surgeries is that you know when you will be suddenly immobile - I was at the gym today and thinking how weird it is that I know after the 14th i won't be there for a while - unless i have auper fast recovery and can pogo myself down there after a fortnight!

I had to laugh at my invoice - the prosthesis (which is the screws etc he may use) is estimated as he won't know a) the size and b) whether he will definitely need them until the op, so if he doesn't use them I get a refund - how exciting! I might take him some B & Q special wood screws, surely they'll do the trick and 39p they are far more affordable than the £1200 currently being mooted... :o

Cosmic - how are you? Ele did really well to get so far with her playing, and I had to laugh at the concept of just being allowed to be sad!! R is a bit like that with me, he always tries to solve problems and sometimes I just want a problem to be allowed to exist and to feel miserable about it for a while! THEN I'll tackle solving it! When is the next PT? Those two conflicting PT opinions are baffling. I can see the logic in both, but I guess whatever view you subscribe to the key is getting the knee as strong and as straight as you can do. The offer of heavy choc and some bouncing is always available....

Ouch/Deepak - welcome to the crazy world of Cosmic's cafe - not solely reserved for layyyyyyyyyyyyydeeeeeez but it might help if you wear a dress and talk cake from time to time.  ;D :P

right 'tis time for dinner....and OMG football on again...what joy....

Lottie xxx (soon to be called Mrs Bob and the ONION (singular).
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 07, 2010, 12:08:12 AM
I'm wondering where my pre-surgery panic has got to. This time in three days, the deed will be done... I guess it still doesn't seem entirely real. Either that or I'm just in denial.

Vicks - that's a shame about KoL. A friend saw them in the States and raved about them live, so either she had low expectations or they're getting tired near the end of the tour! I'm also a big Killers fan but keep missing them whenever they come to Vancouver.

Sounds like Neelie digested the news about the op and then threw a tantrum once it had sunk in - so sorry to hear about the night pain. It's a frustrating vicious circle as lack of sleep impedes the body's healing ability, and on it you say perhaps this is a good reminder that it's time to take action. Did your OS give you an idea of what level of knee function you'll have if the op is a success?

Tez - I don't envy you your pre-op cleaning with two teens in the house. Mind you we're still cleaning up after my parents' visit. It's actually kind of funny - we had a total role reversal from my teenage days, in that they ate all our food, made a lot of mess and kept trying to persuade me to have a drink while I politely declined! I'm not sure if it's an age thing or if it all depends on whose house is actually being shared. ;) Still, it was funny teasing them about it. ;)

Lottie - I love the idea of you showing up with a pack of 39p screws for your surgeon.  ;D How are the onions feeling at the moment? I agree completely about the weirdness of planning for immobility; I've been injured a number of times, but never had the opportunity to plan for the inconvenience and hassle. Or attempt psychological preparation, at which I can only conclude that I'm failing completely.

Not such good kitty news - came home from my bike ride and Mara's digestive problems had returned with a vengeance. Without going into too much gory detail a very sad, protesting little cat had to be bathed, the couch has been completely dismantled and disinfected and I'm about to bleach the floors. It's too bad, as she'd had a few better days in the runup to this episode. Unfortunately I don't think we can go ahead with the plan to reclaim the shower stall from the cats, as she's having enough issues without us moving the litterboxes. I'm just going to have to figure out a way to get in and out of the bathtub to shower.

The preparations...well, I did the big Costco shop yesterday ($400! :o But we're well stocked on everything heavy and/or bulky that would be hard for J to get without the car) and have arranged to borrow the parking spot next to our building's elevator from a kind neighbour for two or three weeks (ours is right at the far end of the parkade.) Still haven't managed to track down a cryocuff, although I have one more sports med store to try tomorrow. I had a DVD splurge at Futureshop and have stocked up on library books. One step at a time, we're getting there - though we won't be anywhere near the end of the list by Friday.

I also checked two items off my pre-surgery wishlist - climbed the Grouse Grind in under an hour yesterday (we haven't managed that since 2007, when we were doing the Grind three times a week) and cycled to the top of Cypress Mountain this morning. I'd forgotten just what a brutal ride that is; only about 70k but you drop down to sea level before climbing solidly for about 25 kilometres, the last 15 of them steep. You guys will laugh - today is the first really hot day here, and I realised at the foot of Cypress Bowl Road that I hadn't bought any sunscreen with me. My legs haven't had much exposure to the sun because it's been so cold, and I got really paranoid about sunburning my left leg before friday. So I ended up ripping one sleeve off my hoody and wearing it as a knee protector. It looked completely ridiculous, but I figured better to sacrifice the hoody and my dignity than have to deal with dressings and stitches on a sunburn.

I am feeling a bit grouchy about the capriciousness of the weather gods - after the worst start to a summer that we've had since I moved here, today the weather finally turned glorious and the forecast is 30 degrees on Friday, Saturday and Sunday! :(

Okay, time to go sort out these terrifying floors...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 07, 2010, 02:54:58 AM
Aaargh I hate this site sometimes, just reset and wiped my reply...grrr

It's 2.40 and I'm awake.  Tez - no sign of you on FB, you must be asleep, lucky thing!  Neelie is stiff rather than specifically painful, which is a relief.  I am hungry, latte, chips, fruit and co-codamol a bit lacking, but don't fancy anything to eat so will just put up with the tummy grumbles!

Snowy - sorry to hear about Mara, Woo sends stripey get well hugs across the Pond :)

Function wise, other than running, there's not much I really can't 'do' - it's just the gym stuff that makes Neelie cranky (I have actually come to terms with that I think, rather than denying it when I was advised to stop by the OS) .  OK, the rest hasn't solved thhe problem or really improved it, but I don't think it's worse ultimately!

II am very impressed by your cycling, the most I had done this year hving got back on the bike after my impressive tumble when I rejoined the bike path without the bike was 10 miles.  I think I could have done more, but was pushed for time and thinking a bit of the knee!  I'd love to try a 30 mile ride, let's aim for next summer!

I can't believe it'll be a year since injury when I have the second op.  I have decided on w/c 13 September if the OS can do (he'll be back from his holiday and my mum is around).  It will give me the chance to hook up with some very good friends who are over from the US and go to Proms in the Park on the 11th.

I diidn't manage to call the insurance yesterday, wasn't in the mood (had a bit of a misery sessiion in the loo at the office, luckily no one noticed or at least commented, bit hormonal too  :-[ )

Lottie - no second MRI mentioned.  I think the OS is confident it is the lesion causing Neelie to swell and gripe.  I've not had the letter after Saturday's appointment, so not got all the details other than that the op is microfracturing of the osteochondral lesion and then covering with a membrane.  Sounds so inocuous, but I am sure it'll hurt  :(  I think the knee gets scoped first, so I assume he'll have a good look, shave the patella a bit more before the main event.  Wonder if he can use the same portals or poor neelie will end up with 2 pairs of eyes and the bigger scar!

OK the milkman is outside delivering, which means it'll be getting light soon and the wretched birds will start singing.  Time for me to try to sleep again.  It's 23.8 deg in my room so thankfully a bit cooler.  I am glad that I am waiting until September for the surgery, when hopefully it'll be cooler still at night but warm enough to sit outside and recuperate.

Take care out there, knees and onions!  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 07, 2010, 08:34:44 AM
Vicky so sorry you had another crap night :( dont want to rub it in or gloat but 7 FULL HOURS OF SLEEP I had last night!! last time I had anything like that amount of sleep I had been pretty drunk going to bed :-[ and prolly then it was more like being comatose rather than sleep so I'm happy. but I deffo sympathise with you cos I think everything feels worse when its night & everyone else is sleeping and your awake and worrying about the decisions you have made. Feel better soon :)
Snowy so sorry about Mara poor wee kitty its such a shame and she cant even tell you how she feels.
3 days to go for you, you sound as if you've calmed down a bit and seem prepared for the whole post op rest and rehab, the rest side of ot you will need after the manic last week of grouse grind climbing, swimming and cycling,, it sounds exahusating but lots of fun. I think its just as well I am at work up till the sat before the op, plus that weekend my sister is moving into a new house so the Sunday will be taken up helping her so no time to worry about the op.
Lottie not long for you too how are your preop plans going getting ready for the onion chopping, has Snowys preop frenzy hit you yet?? As for the suntan it will stay as long as I keep using the Johnstones holiday skin stuff cant be going in for surgery all
peelly wally (thats a good old Scots expression).
Cosmic how are things going with you the cafe seems kinda quiet without the boss popping in ;)
Deepak how about you and the poetic license any more adventures to report.
Take care Tez   
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 07, 2010, 07:28:27 PM
A little more progress towards getting neelie mfx'd and grafted. 

Spoke to insurers, they won't fund without more info from OS  as the guidance from NICE is that the data on long term effectiveness of this procedure is inadequate and they need supporting documentation from the OS regarding the reasons the I need to have this procedure and not any other form of treatment available for the knee. NICE refusal seems like an excuse to not cough up frankly!

I assume OS has his reasons, he certainly isn't keen on simple mfx

Date wise, probably 16 September (Thursday list filled first, then Monday if busy)'s getting later but I would like to go to PiP

Of course, neelie hasn't been too grouchy today...fickle joint!  And I haven't been too tired despite my middle of the night KG session!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 07, 2010, 07:54:02 PM
Vicks - good luck with the insurers. I am sure the OS can convince them it is the best way forwards and in essence, it is probably cheaper than a failed MFX and a TKR.... :P :o ;D

The onions have been well behaved today. The knees however have been a PAIN. That bee swarm sensation is back with a passion. It does seem to flare up at certain times of the month I have to say, which is just such a pain as they've been pretty settled for nigh on 2-3 weeks. Perhaps the hay fever steroid injection is also wearing off....I am going to ask the onion man if he'll inject my spare big toe and both knees next week I think! Didn't make the gym today as they were bugging me, but had a productive afternoon of report writing after my assessment this morning so I feel positive. Plan to hit the gym in the morning to wake me up and make the most of being able to drive!!

Cosmic - wherefore art thou?? :D

Snowy - how you feeling? I hope things are OK. We're both on close countdown....closely followed by Tez and then on super long extended countdown..Vicks!

I am sure I need to sort loads of things out for next week. I am planning on doing some food shoping the day before especially for all the nice healthy things I like as otherwise R will be feeding me pizza, curry, toast and cheese for a few days! I also need to find some reading material. I've got plenty of DVDs to keep me busy including the boxed set of Prime Suspect that arrived this morning - reduced from 99 squits to 11.99 on - happy! I need to decide whether to sleep in the main bedroom (next to en suite) or other big bedroom whch has the TV point and telly in it. Do I need jim jams to take to hospital? Oh goodness, am dreading not having my contacts in when I come round as I am so short sighted.

Am actually quite scared now. Wish my knees weren't hurting!  ::)   Tomorrow is another day - and will be knee pain free!!

Hugs to all

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: zaiemk on July 07, 2010, 10:40:40 PM
Hi Lottie

I last got to the gym the week before my aclr - really miss it at the mo and glad I kept pushing at the quads, h/strings, and calves till the op.  The hay fever injection probably did help.

I buggered up with the shopping and ended up burdening Ayesha with it this week - get in a some comfort food/snacks :)
Go with the room with the TV connection - your worst toilet incidents will be post op in hospital - Cosmics anecdote about the pan - spot on - although I had to use a bottle - dignity??? - out the window.  The nurse did take the mickey, as she said the ladies had it a lot worse than us boys.  It may be something to do with the anaesthetic as well - I did go through a lot of bottles.

Just make sure you do allow yourself enough time to get to the toilet - the first few times were a bit touch and go :-[

Not sure if you need PJs for your stay - I was put into one of those nice bare back gowns, and when I was cleared for discharged, got changed.  I did take mine just in case though.

Might be a good time to get yourself some cheap spare glasses - I got mine from Glasses Direct - no commission :)

Good luck and take care
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 07, 2010, 10:57:52 PM
Hi Peeps,
7 weeks today!

Walked 6 miles to the lake in the forest today (and back!). No problem with walking distances and the calf and ankle swelling is behaving. I haven't made it to the gym for the last few days but have my little places in the forest where I stop and do balance work, single leg dips, squats and lunges - which is fine until you are in the zone doing balance drills with your eyes shut and your local ninja dog walkers sneak up on you!

Excitement of the day was a forest/heath fire about 1/2mile from where I was walking - unfortunately I understand that one of the fire rescue vehicles overturned and trapped someone underneath - haven't found any official reports yet. Anyway, it was all brought under control without further incident.

Yesterday was the first anniversary of the death of my Dad's partner from bone cancer. It's been an odd year, in many ways I can't believe it's a year already, in other ways it seems such a long time ago. I went in to our little back garden for a moment of quiet contemplation at about the time she died (11:20pm) ... one star shone through the clouds, and a snuffling could be heard in the undergrowth which turned out to be a rather large hedgehog eating the birdseed :-). I've put some dog food and fresh water out in the hope that it might come back tonight.

I met up yesterday for lunch with Em-hug, who's was next in theatre for her ACLr was after me. She had a week of antibiotics for a knee infection, and has just about made it to 95o flexion and is about 5o off extension. She said there was no way she could do teh distances that I have been walking, but has been told by the PT at Poole (where I go) that she can swim front crawl (...I was told again last week - no swimming until 12 weeks!). It just goes to show that this recovery is very individual. She has her OS/registrar follow-up straight after me next Monday - but sadly I won't have time to speak with her as Ele has just qualified for the finals in another competition between the local schools, so I have to get her to the concert hall by 6:30pm - a tight call :-/ - backup lift already organised!

I have to admit - I did try a little jogging on the spot in the kitchen yesterday. The impact, which would have been a problem previously, was OK and I must admit the lovely Mr Vario at the gym has given me some confidence in making jogging/running kind of movements. Hopefully this means that I'll be OK in another 5 weeks for a bit of gentle running (I know - I hate running - but I like having the choice not to run!).

Kay - I know you're nearly there.... if I can do this then I have my fingers crossed that you'll find this a breeze. Sorry to hear that Mara has been unsettled again - I hope she improves.

Tez - so glad you had a full night's sleep - here's to a few more! xx

Lottie - I'm here - still here.... so many lunches, so little time ;-). Looking forward to seeing Onion for the last time before he goes for his radical restyle :-)

Vicks - lovely to catch you for a rare interlude of FB chat the other day. The remains of my ironing (plus the next four loads) are still to be found in the basket at the end of the sofa. Good that you are pursuing the insurance - don't let them wriggle out of it! I hope you get a better night tonight.

Deepak - it's so good to have a bit of male logic on board to keep us all in order again - Tony has been busy with all his post grad stuff.  :-)

Time for bed - can't keep the hours I used to :-(....

Getting jittery for all you guys on countdown!


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 08, 2010, 05:21:44 AM
Lord you folks have been busy posting today! :)

Cosmic - first of all - yay and congrats! A six mile walk at 7 weeks seems pretty amazing to me. It's absolutely true that every recovery is different, but it sounds as though you've more than caught up with where you should be right now. And jogging in the kitchen - clearly there's no stopping you! Glad you were able to take some time to catch up with your knee-hug buddy and remember your dad's partner. I have no idea how you fit all of these things in while also managing your recovery and two kids; I think you must be some kind of superwoman. ;)

Lottie - so sorry the knees are bad again. :( Mine have settled right down after 10 days out of the gym while my parents were here; they weren't idle by any means (we walked a lot, swam every day, and did the Grind once) but clearly it's those repetitive exercises with weights that are really aggravating the PFS. Had the usual needling from the PT today and the muscles barely twinged; that's the first time they haven't been totally knotted up. And that's after two mountains (one on bike, one on foot) in the previous 48 hours!

Vicks - Sorry to hear about the insurance hassle; I hope it can be sorted out. September 16th is a very good day - it's our wedding anniversary (6 years coming up!) so I hope it will be as lucky for your op as it's been for us. :)

Zaiem - your hospital advice has been duly noted and appreciated! Were you in overnight? They're doing me as a day case, but Tez will be staying in for her ACLr.

Tez - hope your good night's sleep last night won't be a one off. Although I think I see you on FB, which isn't a good sign...

So here I am with about 1.5 days to go...woke up this morning to a glorious 30 degree day, so said screw the to-do list and went to beautiful Jericho Beach with J. We sat in the sun, watched kidlets playing, and went for a fairly brief ocean swim before heading over to Kits Beach for a long swim in the pool. It was worth it. :) Now I'm puttering around alternating between housecleaning and the computer, as it's still too hot to clean for any length of time. The one thing I did manage to do was track down what appears to be the only cryocuff in Vancouver; everywhere is all out of rentals so I'm buying one, and will attempt to claim it on my extended health plan even though I'm quite sure it's not covered. We're still deep in the financial doldrums after the emergency vet bills. I also met with the dear friend who's chauffeuring us to Delta Hospital on Friday; given the horrendously early start, she's going to stay over tomorrow.

Had my last pre-op PT appointment this morning; the PT gave me his cell number in case of problems over the weekend, and we're going to touch base on Monday to make my first appointment. I have a few simple exercises to do post-surgery, and instructions to get up and weight-bearing as soon as I can. Fortunately the OS said the same thing!

A few jitters are starting to sneak in now. I'm trying not to overthink it, and just keep busy and distracted until the time comes. I'm sure I won't be sleeping much tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 08, 2010, 08:17:29 AM
Morning lovely knee geeks I hope all is well with you lot and the offending body parts are not being too badly behaved today.
Snowy its getting so close now do you feel mentaly ready for all this? I hope so, excelent news on the cryo cuff should help with post op pain and swelling.
Cosmic 6 miles walk... oh my god!! there goes super woman again that deffo sounds like your recovery is coming along nicely.
My sympathy on the anniversary of your Dad's partner's death, its nice to sit quietly and remember all the good times and the person she was, sending a wee hug your way (((hugs))).
Lottie not long for you now too, sounds like you have lots of dvd's to watch while your stuck at home what else have you been doing to get organised pre surgery cos I'm sure there's something I have forgotten to do or organise but cant think what it is, sorry the knees are playing up but at least the onions are giving you a wee break.
Vicky hope your O.S can put forward a good enough case to get the insurance company to give the go ahead for the surgery now that you have decided to go ahead with the surgery it would be rotton if they refuse to cover it.
Deepak and Zaiem you are both getting very brave entering into cosmics cafe ;D  good for you both we needed a little male prespective in here as long as there is no football talk then all is well :P

well I'm getting ready for work with about 3 hours sleep under my belt, oh the joys!!! I think that is why I am soo ready to get this op over and done with, I need to get back to having a full nights sleep.
Take care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 08, 2010, 11:44:45 AM

Help - I need a virtual kick up the backside. Had a terrible night, the knees were on fire, I had a splitting headache and vomiting, and this morning every single bit of me aches including the knees which are the worst. I am exhausted, can barely drag myself to the kitchen as someone has removed any bit of muscle energy. Why does this happen all the time?? WTF is going on? Honestly I feel like not even bothering with the foot seeing as the rest of me is giving me up the ghost especially the darned sodding frustrating knees. I remember a time when I didn't have to plan every step of my bloody life. Didn't need pills and stretches and exercises to keep me half functional. I'm fed up.  :'(

Snowy - I have been thinking about you - jitters are normal. You will be just fine, and back on that ski slope before you know it. I have that jittery feeling too, its not nice. Deep breaths, you're all planned (good news on the cryo cuff) and you've got great support. Plus those legs must be stronger than the average world cup footballer's legs now!

Tez - sorry you didn't sleep again. I was also awake but I never go onto the computer as it just wakes me up more and I can't see as no contacts in!

Off for a bath and to try and climb out of my pity pit.

Lottie xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 08, 2010, 12:05:54 PM
Having a quickie (I did finally get to bed last night after trying to catch up with all you guys...and failing!) .... whilst downing a salad wrap (thinking of you Vicks) before heading off tho the athletics stadium at Kings Park in Bournemouth to watch Ele run the 800m for her school. She hates running LoL. I keep telling her that I wish I could be so good at something I hated  ;D.

Lottie - HHUUGGSSSSS and a pity pit ladder with a big kick at the bottom of it from your Cosmic knee-buddy. Sorry the Bobs are getting you down (along with the onions and the sickness and aching). If your infection last week was viral it could be a re-emergence - it's a typical viral pattern, but it does seem a little odd to come back with such vengeance! Hope the bath helped and you used some de-stressing and uplifting oils ..... I'll pm/email you later.....xxxx

Snowy - I'm getting nervous and excited for you! I deffo think your decision to sod the list and just get out there and enjoy the day would have been my preferred option  :D.

Tez - your body was playing games with you - just getting you back for thinking that 7 hours of sleep is normal! I don't know how you survive. I used to be able to but am a real old lady now ... If I'm not in bed by 10:30 I certainly know it the next day!... I did read in a TKR book in MR OCDs surgery that general anaesthetics can leave you feeling tired and drained for up to 3 months post-op, so I'll settle for that. I seem to remember it was much the same last time.

Aaahhh clock's ticking got to go can't miss this race (I did miss her sports day one :-( )....

TTFN xxxx

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: zaiemk on July 08, 2010, 03:34:10 PM
Hi Snowy

Nearly there - not long to go - all the best.

My aclr was termed day surgery, but due to the GA and morphine I was wasted till about 8/9pm and didnt get to speak to the physio and get my crutches.  I do remember through the haze that they tried to speak to me and then just gave up and said we'll see you tomorrow.  I was in about 12-18 hrs longer than I needed to be.  I tried to get out of the bed and walk to the toilet at about 2-3am and nearly fell on my face.  One of the nurses had to come running up and shove me back in bed.

Looking at the different people around me, who had varying types of anaesthetic, the common approach was checking blood pressure and temp, asking if they'd passed water, get some fluids and solids down, and physio satisfied that hey could get about - then they were discharged.  They dont like to keep you in there longer than they need to.

Good luck and take care
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 08, 2010, 05:07:41 PM
The nerves got the better of me last night - couldn't go to sleep for the life of me. Up and about early, planning on getting a very long swim once my breakfast has digested! Thanks to everyone for the soothing thoughts. Can't imagine what tonight will be like...

Lottie - so sorry that you're feeling so rough. It does sound like a reappearance of last week's virus. Stay strong, treat yourself to whatever you need to feel better (cake? Painkillers? Strong drink? All three?) and the worst of this should pass. I know exactly what you mean about the frustration of needing pills and stretches just to keep doing what feels like the bare minimum; I know that once (almost 20 years ago now) there was a time in my life when my knees didn't hurt, but I just can't remember or imagine what that felt like now. Sending enormous hugs and Vancouver good vibes your way.

Zaiem - it's funny the things that you don't think of before surgery! I just wrote a little note reminding me to cut my toenails tonight, as it'll be a while before I can do them myself on my left leg!

Cosmic - not going to be able to get away with saying sod the whole list today, but I am giving myself the morning to enjoy.

Tez - don't feel remotely ready in any respect, but this surgery is barrelling toward me like an oncoming train whether I like it or not! Not sure if it's even possible to get mentally ready for something like this when it's such a brand-new experience. It's the hospital experience that's freaking me out a bit - I just want that part over and done so I can come home and get on with healing and recovering.

On today's list is picking up all the kitty meds for the next little while, collecting the cryocuff, taking our thin summer quilt to the laundromat (it won't fit in our machine), cleaning the floors, cleaning both bathrooms, finishing up a freelance project due over the weekend (oops), and testing the iPad/TV hookup. On the not-so-essential list is a long swim (actually that is essential), a quick jump in the ocean, and a smoothie at my favourite cafe. Poor J is working today; I think she's almost as distracted as I am.

This time tomorrow it should be almost over!  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 08, 2010, 08:49:15 PM
Snowy will be thinking of you tomorrow just need to work out the time difference so that I can send your surgeon some extra consentration and hand steadying vibes, Jen some calming vibes and you healing and painkilling and anti sickness after the anasthetic vibes. Good luck and I hope it all goes well and I look forward to hearing all about it after the deed is done :D
Lottie not so good your not feeling good again as the others said it could be the aftermath of the lurgy from last week I hope you feel better soon but if this continues then get you self to the doctor and get it checked out. And dont even think about putting off the onion chopping  ::) even if they dont feel too bad just now,  remember how much pain they cause you most of the time!!
Is it the 13th your due for the chop??
Zaimek I have been told I would be kept in for a couple of days after my op the ward Doc that I saw at my pre op said that  this surgery was usually performed on your 20 year old footballer and they are kept in overnight but because of my age I would be kept in longer :( this came from a doctor who looked about 12.
Vicky any news on the insurance coverage for the op?? and how is neelie behaving today??
Cosmic  how did Ele get on with her race, she is deffinatly multi talented, musical and sporty thats a good mix.
I am not sure myself how I can survive on so little sleep, I know they say as you get older you need less sleep but I thought I should need more than 3 hours, my only consolation is that in just over a week I will have loads of time to catch up on all that lost sleep.
Take care all Tez   
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: zaiemk on July 08, 2010, 09:36:32 PM
Tex - its not just me - I sat in that ward a watched all the consultants coming in at 8am, and kept thinking they're alll really young, which I suppose isnt necessarily a bad thing.  The harsh reality is that I havent acknowledged how old I am.
I think you will be out after 24 hours, but its probably good just so they can keep an eye on how you react to the meds and post op come down.  If you show positive signs and attitude they'll let you out - although they do say that someone should be with you for the first 24 hours.

Lottie - I hope you are feeling a lot better than you were this morning.  I picked up a viral before my first scheduled surgery in late May - after 6-7 days I thought i was getting over it, but it kicked into the next gear and carried on for another week.  A viral infection on its own is completely draining (I'm not talking man flu ladies), on top of everything else thats giving you grief, it must be knackering.  Try  and get some r 'n' r - if thats at all possible - something out of the ordinary - could you do the luxury of a pamper day?

Snowy - catch up with you on the otherside now - good luck and best wishes.  The unpredictable joys of the Pacific coast weather system will be waiting for you - I have the lovely Pennines  - I know where I'd much rather be.... Not in Yorkshire, anywhere but Yorkshire. - I'm a Red Rose boy if theres any doubt.

Take care guys
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 08, 2010, 10:11:10 PM
Snowy - don't fret if sleep doesn't come tonight... just find something that you like doing - reading, dvd, cleaning (lol), extreme knitting Danger Kay style  ;)! I didn't get to sleep until 3am before the op and had to be up at 5am. I was so hyped I didn't feel tired. I was first in too, it's a great place to be on the list.

Ele came 6/9 in the 800m. Turns out her PE teacher told her not to eat anything if she was running middle distance - that was at 12pm when they arrived at the stadium - she didn't run til 4pm ... so she hadn't eaten for 8 hours (since breakfast!). Don't you just love the way that we take the "expert's" advice without question of context.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: zaiemk on July 08, 2010, 10:22:59 PM
Cosmic - Thats rough on Ele - poor advice from her teacher - she shoudnt worry about the result - considering she hadnt eaten since breakfast she did well - she finished.  800m is a bugger of a distance to run - its all about consistent pace from the off.  I have to be careful what I say about teachers - its Ayeshas profession (mathlete instead of athlete).  I hope she's not too down.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 08, 2010, 10:40:07 PM
My my, it's been busy in the cafe today!

I have been sat in training all day, then a retirement speech (I had to sit down, neelie started to complain after 10 minutes, I mean honestly), then the pub (2 bottles of bud and felt sozzled  :-[ ), train home as still carless (well and drunk).

OS letter came today - bit depressing actually - 6 weeks to settle (while off work), 3 months nothing strenuous, will take a YEAR for me to return to sporting activities  :o (hopefully not everything in gym and cycling!) .  Repeats that I won't ever be able to kneel comfortably and that op should improve symptoms but not resolve entirely  :(  Sodding knee!!

Not heard on insurance front, OS sec not in today and not sure if OS works (privately) on Fridays...he needs to get reasons together for the mfx/graft combo...I guess I'll know next week  ???  I guess at least no flat refusal and he must have his reasons for doing this not something else (other than drilling)

Bit fed up, but plenty of birthday knees ups at weekend...and collect the new car on Saturday  ;D

Snowy - all the very best for tomorrow - you'll be great !
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: clarky_vl on July 08, 2010, 11:11:29 PM
feel a bit awkward being a new person to post in a thread like this, but I have loved reading this diary since it started, you do all make me laugh!  ;D

Just wanted to wish Snowy the best of luck for tomorrow and I really hope it all goes well!

Also hi to everyone else and hope you are all well too, especially as most of you are on the run up to a surgery of some kind!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 09, 2010, 12:40:41 AM
Hey all - just woken up to go to bed  ::) ....Tez I think I have your dose of dopiness and then some!

.... just to qualify - Ele's run was what it was ..... I'm starting to sound like a pushy parent and I didn't mean to! ... It just was such a eureka moment when I saw that she took her teacher's advice (which in context was correct) SO literally ... to the point it was detrimental. I wondered how much it could be applied to some of the advice I'd been given over the course of my injury. TBH Ele was just glad it was over!

Hey Vicky - glad we make you smile - and lovely to see you here in Cosmic's Cafe. It is an honour to have you here  ;D....

Zaiem - Ayesha has a tough job!! What age range does she teach?

Vicks, good that you haven't been tempted to cycle in your mini-less days... It's a bit of a shock when you see it in black and white isn't it. Speaking as one who has been off any sport (unless you call dog walking a sport) for 10 months .... time flies when you have KG to keep you amused! ... the rehab protocol for ACLr is 9-12 months return to cutting sports (that doesn't mean competitive hairdressing Tez!) ... so you'll be in line with us standard ACLr-ers. I think that although the time can be frustrating when progress seems slow it also goes quickly when you are focussed on getting the knee as good as it will be.... and who needs to kneel down  anyway? ;) . Hmmm - nothing strenuous - that's another one open to interpretation - I wonder what would count as strenuous on the Snowy Scale of Strenuousness??

It looks like we are going to have to have a super duper birthday slap up luncheon on Monday - it'll be a good chance for you to test the new jalopy ;D .. and get in a couple of well needed hugs.

Lottie - did email you but it's a really short one and probably doesn't make any sense as I fell asleep twice typing and sent it before I checked it ::) xxx.

Night night all! xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 09, 2010, 04:02:08 AM
Hi Vicky! Glad to see you over here, and thank you so much for the good wishes - I really appreciate it, especially when you're only a couple of days post-op and probably have a ton of other stuff on your mind! As one of the increasingly numerous July surgery gang, you fit right in on this thread.  :)

Cosmic - I feel honoured to have a scale of strenuousness named after me! Though it may have to be modified after tomorrow. ;)

Vicks - sorry the letter came as a bit of a shower of cold water. That is roughly on a par with ACL rehab, so at least you won't be on your own - though I'm not sure that's any consolation. I hope the new car, birthday celebrations and hugs help cheer you up. :)

Tez - my surgery is 7.45am and I'm 8 hours behind the UK, so that would make it...3.45pm your time, I think? J has my KG login just in case!

So my last day as a uniACLer is almost done...went for a 6k swim, picked up all the kitty meds, got my Cryocuff (haven't unpacked it, though), cleaned the house to within an inch of its life, got fed up cleaning and raced down to the beach to jump in the ocean, met a friend for smoothies, and now just have to finish up that one small freelance project and I'm - eep! - ready (yet very not ready) to go. Said a temporary goodbye to the pool, my bike, and the Jericho Beach swim raft - I wonder when I'll be able to swim in the ocean again? Looking at that blue sky and wondering how I'll survive recovering in this heatwave.

It doesn't seem possible that surgery is now just 12 hours away...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 09, 2010, 05:12:26 AM
Update: freelance project finished, last pre-op meal eaten, crutches unearthed, nervousness increasing...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 09, 2010, 07:57:41 AM
 ;D ;D It's Snowy Day YAY!!!   ;D  :-* :-\  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 09, 2010, 08:04:26 AM
SNOWY!!!! Will be thinking of you!!! Hope all goes smoothly, thanks for the time difference update, I was wondering on the exact time lag. Soon be done and out the other side and starting the rehab. Sending you huge hugs from accross the ocean and look forward to your own post op diary and updates. Hugs! xxxxxx

 ;D ;D ;D :D

Lottie xxxxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 09, 2010, 08:12:46 AM
Snowy if you get a chance to check in before surgery then GOOD LUCK ;D ;D
Vicky welcome to Cosmics cafe its pretty good here for keeping me sane while I wait for my op but having read all that you've been through mine will be a walk in the park in comparison ::)
Cosmic I dont think you sound like a pushy mother at all you just want the best for your kids, being a Mum is the hardest thing I have ever done but also the best thing.
Vicks I hope you arent tempted to ride evil bike even though you'll be carless untill Sat, look on the bright side had you had you car or bike with you yesterday the you couldnt have had a couple of beers after work, and sometimes thats just what you need..
Lottie I hope your feeling better today and bob and the onions give you a break.
Zaiemk and Deepak  hope all the rehab is going well and your both behaving like resposnsible adults ;) ;)
Take care all Tez

ps forgot to mention a whole 7 hours sleep yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee for me last night
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 09, 2010, 08:38:03 AM
It's 12.30am here and needless to say sleep is proving a little elusive...oh well, if it doesn't come along pretty soon I guess it will be time to get up in about four hours! I'm dying of thirst as it's still baking hot even this late, and I'm into the nil by mouth phase now.

Thanks all for your well that the day is here the support means more than ever. I've been really touched by all the FB and KG messages, emails, and well wishes from work that J brought home. My poor mother-in-law got the dates mixed up and thought my surgery was Thursday, and then when she didn't hear from us became convinced that something had gone wrong. She phoned J's cellphone a dozen times before J finished work, picked up the messages and was able to let her know that I'm still in one piece (for now). 

I've been lying in bed for a half hour or so, alternating between feeling very scared and trying to remind myself that fear is, in the end, a choice. Perhaps if I say it often enough I'll start to believe it!

Thanks for not minding my nervous venting over the past 24 hours. I almost started my own post-op thread earlier tonight, but then decided I wanted to wait till I'm actually out the other side. So I'm cluttering up Cosmic's Cafe instead. ;)

Okay, let's see if I can get at least a couple of hours' sleep before the crack of dawn alarm call...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 09, 2010, 01:31:28 PM
Leaving for the hospital...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 09, 2010, 01:34:46 PM
Good Luck, you'll walk it ;)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 09, 2010, 04:53:32 PM
Snowy - We're all thinking of you so hard I'm wondering if we may have all appeared in your drug induced dreams.... or maybe that'd be more of a nightmare LoL....
Welcome the world Snowy and her shiny shiny new ACL (there's a story behind "shiny shiny' that I'll share sometime if I remember). It should all be installed ready for initiation :-).
J - if you get to read this I hope you are holding up OK - it's hard watching someone you love go through it. Make sure you get some R&R too!

Tez - congrats on the sleep AGAIN - deffo passing your insomnia onto me - what a night  ::)

Lottie - by my calculations you are next  ;D ....

Ooops - taxi duty calls again!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 09, 2010, 07:22:45 PM
Here I am in Recovery at Delta Hospital. (Gotta love technology!) I have a new ACL! Also a LOT of pain which the morphine isn't touching. J is right beside me. :) More later.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 09, 2010, 07:43:07 PM
Snowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwy!!! How awesome to see your post!!! I have been counting through your surgery this afternoon - was on the bike at the gym at 4.15...was thinking...Snowy will be in there 4.45...she'll be rebuilt.....and 5.30..she'll be out!!  ;D

Pain - yuk, but I guess thats to be expected......hang in there, the only way is UP now with that shiny new ligament!!!  8)

Hugs xxxxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 09, 2010, 09:12:53 PM
Hi all
Snowy so pleased to see you post, I have been thinking about you all afternoon and like Lottie counting down the time till I though you would be done, so pleased you are through and I hope you manage to get your pain under control soon at least you have J with you so tat should make you feel a bit better ((((((hugs))))))) from Me take care
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 09, 2010, 09:32:20 PM
Fantastic to hear from you Snowy!!  Hope the drugs kick in soon  ;D

No resolution on my funding - OS and sec not been around, going to be some time late next week I think.  I did get a rather confusing email from the secretary which was meant for the OS lol!  Spoke to her - still dk how much to self-fund the AMIC but the membrane alone costs several '000s so unlikely to be worth me paying!  Also, if it does happen, the 'special' theatre  :o may not be available on the 16th, so would be 23rd or maybe 9th if I sacrifice nothing to report really, except neelie is well grumpy!  I did 40 lengths in the pool which was very crowded and choppy! 

Get the new motor tomorrow  8)

Hope all the knees and onions are enjoying the sunshine  :D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: zaiemk on July 09, 2010, 09:51:58 PM
Nice one Snowy - not only are you concious, but coherent.  Excellent - not the pain of course, thats proper naff.

I was completely wasted for the first 8 hours after surgery - fell asleep while the OS was trying to speak to me, fell asleep whilst the PTs were trying to speak to me, just wasted - the nursing staff got no sense put of me - Ayesha - says nothing special there - me on a normal day apparently.

Cant wait till you start your post op rehab diary - see you there

All the best
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: zaiemk on July 10, 2010, 11:01:01 AM
Hi Sue

Ayesha teaches secondary - so she has the teens - mixed groups as well as 1:1 tuition for those that need it.  It is challenging but she enjoys it and has a sense of achievement - even she connects with one kid and gets them to understand something it makes a massive difference.

Hi Vickster - Your case sounds really complicated administratively - I hope your OS can sort out the evidence for the Insurance and get it boxed off - Have a good Birthday and enjoy your new car.

Take care everyone and enjoy the weekend - Its the world cup finals!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 11, 2010, 09:38:58 AM
Cosmic, Vicky and Lottie I hope you all have a brillient day out tomorrow I am not happy :( cos I want to come tooooo
but as I wont be there I expect a run down of events with lots of details and photos just so I can see what I have missed.
Cosmic I am asssuming things are going well with the rehab as you havent been posting quite as often, I love to see that [not the not posting cos i really enjoy your posts ;D] but if it means you are feeling good and all is well and there is nothing you need to worry or need help or advice with then it gives me hope that there is a light at the end of the tunnel so to speak.. Not sure if that makes sense as I'm feeling a little fragile after my last preop night out last night and I am also a little distracted by the strangs and very loud noises coming from Misty's tummy at the moment never heard anything like it as I just wrote on Snowys thread SHE MAY EXPLODE
Take care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 11, 2010, 11:10:28 AM
Hi all -

Tez - We will make sure that there is plenty of documentary evidence of the 3 Kneetards exploits (with guest appearances by the Onions) - it's going to be a busy day as after lunch I have a Ortho 8 week (!!!!) follow up appointment at Bournemouth Hospital and the hoofing it back for Ele to play in the local schools Music Festival final - representing her school for Key Stage 3.
I'm not expecting too much from the OS appointment. It will be with a registrar and my experiences to date have't been terribly positive. I do have a few questions on my list but like Vicky's and her specialist, I am becoming accustomed to receiving an assortment of answers from different sources, and trying to filter out what I feel is relevant and appropriate to my case.

Sorry to hear that you are feeling fragile  :( - just keep the outcome in mind - you've waited such a long time for the opportunity to improve the stability of your knee and relieve the pain .... your surgeon is going to work hard to achieve that for you.... and you'll had a Tez-massive following your post-op postings!

With the good weather and a knee which withstands walking I'm out every moment I can be - I'm getting to grips with Cam and Ele having lives of their own but have worked out that if I get them to organise themselves and give me a definite return time (rather that testing me when they need a lift!) then I get some useful time whilst they are out .... hence the second walk on Friday.

I headed off with the dog and a long lost feeling of freedom - got in the car, drove towards the Purbeck Hill and after the initial buzz wore off realised that I had no clue where I was going to walk!
Heading up hill was a sure indication that a challenge was being set for shiny ACL - and the route I found didn't disappoint... uneven surfaces, steep dry dirt slopes and an odd errrant fox. I did wonder about my sanity a couple of times - I'd not walked the path before, was alone and had no phone signal! I made sure I timed the outwards walk so I knew I had enough time to return in daylight.
The knee handled it admirably - but as I was walking in a cutting in the hill the sun disappeared rather quickly, so although I hadn't made it to the cove I was aiming for (it was only about 3/4mile away) I decide to turn back - just as well otherwise I'd have missed the breath-taking shots of the sunset!

So at nearly 8 weeks - my ACLr knee still looks a little different, still a bit puffy, and it does swell (along with calf and ankle) if I've been sedentary for long periods (standing or sitting). Walking is great, cycling seems to leave it uncomfortable, feeling ready to face some light jogging anytime soon. The harvest scar is still bound (tight) despite lots of massage so I'm working on that one - and the feeling on the front of my calf is slowly returning...which has it's positives and negatives - I can now feel pain there LoL. There is a really painful spot just beside the scar - about a fingertip in size which I'm guessing may be the graft insertion. Apart from a couple of hideous and uncomfortable grinds and clicks on extension (new party trick!) it is fine ... and the extension, I think, is improving...or I am becoming normalised at my new zero... either way it is feeling more like "my knee" again.

I took Ele and 2 friends to see Eclipse last night - got home to find a shoe fest inside my front door - Cam's band (Dates with a Wolfman) had decided to practice at mine and had arrived from the beach with another friend in tow. Add Ele and 2 friends suddenly there were 9 mouths to feed!
It's fab though - their friends are good fun - I love the buzz and spark, the house feels alive.... I do also love my peace and quiet when they all go home! We ended up with Ele's friends for a sleepover - they take over the lounge as her room is only a "box room" ... I'm about to go a wake them up  ;D :o ::).

Snowy - I'll pop over to your place when I get a mo and see how you are today - hopefully you are comfortably asleep right now.

Lottie and Vicks - really looking forward to tomorrow - and being introduced to the new car!

Zaiem - credit to Ayesha... I am full of admiration for those who's job it is to inspire and motivate! I have a little experience of teaching - it had high highs but very low lows. As you say - every small success, everytime you reach a child makes up for everything else.

Breakfast time (a basket of seriously reduced patisserie from Tesco late last night YUMMMY!)

Hugs to all

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 11, 2010, 03:04:30 PM
Boohooo the forecast is for rain tomorrow! I wanted lunch outdoors!!  8) :'(  maybe it is wrong! Rain is no good - Bob will be all grumpy!

Lottie hijack:

Do you think I'm allowed to have a postop onion diary?! I could relate it to my knee function - somehow! :P

Hugs to all, great work on the Purbeck Hill walk Cosmic you crazy mad woman!!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 11, 2010, 05:21:07 PM
Cosmic you are a a mad woman as Lottie said especially doing such a long walk on uneven paths without a phone signal just in case
But I supose there comes a time when you have to start trusting your knee again so congratulations at feelong you can trust the old knee at last :D Wee question now that your about the 8 weeks mark do you feel that you would be able to work standing all day as I am hopeing to get back to work at about the 8 week mark and was wondering if that sound like a possability, I know everyons different and heals at different rates but just wondering how you would feel.
Lottie I would be most disapointed if there was no post op diary from them there onions I sure you will come up with some way to
combine the knee probs and the onion chopping.
I hope you both have a fantastic lunch tomorow and please give Vicky a birthday hug from me.
Cosmic good luck with the postop appointment maybe the registrar will be a bit better than before hope so anyway.
Take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 12, 2010, 05:13:26 AM
Hey gang. :) Finally getting caught up with the other threads after the excitement of starting my own post-op diary!

First of all - Cosmic - you go girl! I can't tell you how happy it makes me to hear about your 7-week adventures, particularly from my position in the immediate post-surgery nest on the couch. I am full of admiration and also very reassured by how well things are going for you.

Lottie - you have been very much on my mind - how are you feeling about the pending onion chopping? I hope the nerves aren't too bad and you're feeling prepared for what's to come. I think your onions totally deserve their own diary - I'll be very disappointed if I don't get to read their story in full! :)

Vickster - big birthday hugs from me too - and have a wonderful time with the KGers! Very envious. :)

Tez - at this stage I wouldn't even worry about things like your return to work. Everyone's recovery is so different that I don't think it's possible to draw realistic conclusions about what might happen for you; the best thing to do is get to the other side and see how your own knee is responding to its new ACL. Given the instability that you've had for so long, you might even find that the knee feels considerably better as soon as the initial post-surgery trauma settles!

I'm still finding it very strange to be on the other side of surgery; it both is and isn't how I expected it to be. I guess there's just no way to prepare for something that's so different from anything I've ever been through before. I'm having to learn a new kind of patience, that's for sure. I think things will get easier once this initial, very immobile period is over.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on July 12, 2010, 03:06:09 PM
HI HI HI!!! Snowy I am so happy to see you on the other side. Also glad that we didn't have any panicked post-op posts from Jen  :) Also Tez you are a big show-off with all this sleeping and preparative cleaning you're doing  ;) I slept well on the trip but I suspect that was mostly beer-related. Last night I was back to clock-watching. Vick glad to hear you have a "realistic" option even though it's not "perfect" and Cosmic you are a post-op superstar! Lottie I think an onion post-op diary is an absolute necessity. getting so close!

I missed you all with desperation, but had no way to sneak on here, as Alan was intent on testing the kneetard's limits on this trip. I did a TON of standing, walking, etc. not to mention the 12 hours to Atlanta, 6 hours to the beach, and 15.5 hours home in the van. Am having some pain and stiffness from that still. Also the incision they took the stitch out of on 6/29 looks a little infected... grr... we'll have Big Brad deal with that today. I didn't even see him on Friday 7.2 because he decided to leave early for HIS holiday weekend. Was treated by a little Pakistani guy who seemed afraid to touch me and thus just gave me some ultrasound. Not so helpful. I'd rather be called names and at least get some real treatment.

I started taking the chondroitin,glucosamine, MSM while at my parents' house and the next day came down with a horrible vomiting/bad bum spell. Not sure if it was related, but haven't started them again yet out of fear. Am now obsessed with arnica gel though!

My news for the day is that I've finally decided to start back at the gym tomorrow after about 6.5 months of sitting on my fat butt with the kneetard! Going to create some kind of program that involves excessive low-impact cardio and some jiggly-arm and ab workouts. Just gotta find some motivation somewhere, anyone selling?

I do want to post a link to pics of the crazy camper fire that kept us held up for hours in the mountains of Virginia. Despite my assumption that there were several fatalities (usually those accident investigations are what cause such horrendous traffic) but apparently there were NO injuries...

a good knee/onion day to all!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 12, 2010, 11:25:56 PM
Hi All,

After a laughter packed, pressie swapping, balloon bopping, scrummy munching birthday luncheon with Vicks and Lottie (thanks ladies - they truly are the best rehab- should be available on the NHS) I whizzed back to Bournemouth hospital where I was made to eat my words..... along with a huge slice of humble pie.

OS check at almost 8 weeks

I DID see el Hefe - the big boss, Mr OS himself. He was very pleased with the knee - gave it a good tug and a waggle whilst smiling knowingly, and even allowed himself to emit a jolly chuckle. "Solid" he said smugly, and stepped away from the knee.

He then looked deeply into my eyes  in a "tell me the truth 'coz I'll know if you aren't" kinda way...

 "Are you doing what the Physio tells you?" he asks .... "erm yes" I say, and pause.

He steps back again and cups his hand in his chin, nods and says- "NOTHING MORE?"

"um, I'm walking a lot"

.....he tilts his head to one side and then the other - like a hawk fixing on it's if he has a secret knowing of my jaunt in the Purbeck Hills last week ....

"You MUSTN'T, absolutely MUSTN'T do anything silly"


"This is the time where slipping off a kerb can rupture your graft"


So I guess those thoughts that maybe, just maybe I could take the bike out for a slow ride on even ground were a tad unrealistic.

I really had the feeling he'd been looking in the window of Cosmic's Cafe, but I guess so many ACLr-ers begin to regain ownership of their knee at about this stage and then overdo it that this is a key point of rehab.... and they know the importance of making it.

So I'm being much more mindful in what I do. When I walk in the hills I'll wear my walking boots rather than flip flops and take 2 poles instead of 1 LoL  ;) ;D

Sleep well my knee-some friends.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 13, 2010, 12:09:18 AM
Kris - very very happy to see you back here! Sounds like you had an awesome break, and glad the beer was conducive to better sleeps. Funny to see your report on Big Brad's stand in - tough love has its down sides, but is often the most effective kind!

Cosmic - not to worry - I'm sure almost every ACLr rehabber has been there and gotten the same lecture! If I remember right, you are at that "weak graft" stage - I think it starts to get tougher again around the 4-month mark - but that doesn't mean that you can't do things, just be very careful when you do. :) My PT has promised he'll make sure I get outdoors to enjoy myself as much as possible during my rehab, but I might have to accept a few limitations on what I can do out there. You may be interested to know that he said bike riding at 8 weeks should be fine, as long as I stick to quiet bike trails where there's no danger of being knocked over!

Very envious to hear of the birthday lunch - sounds like a wonderful time was had by all, and by the knees too! (Loved Lottie's FB pictures.) Hope it was a good distraction for Lottie and Vickster from their forthcoming surgeries.

I won't bore everyone with a repeat of my comments over on my own post-op diary, but will say that I am feeling  considerably better today. The pain is more manageable (noticeably improved over the first two days post-op) and I'm able to get around just a little quicker and more confidently (so about at the pace of an arthritic tortoise.) One step hobble at a time, my friends...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 13, 2010, 02:24:03 PM
Cosmic glad your sugeon is pleased with how your knee is doing but please be carefull and dont do anything to jeperdise it at this stage cos that would be a disaster at this stage :-X I guess its just a matter of being sensible though not 100% how you are going to manage that ;D ;D
Glad your Lunch with Lottie and Vicky went well was very sad to be too far away to join you all :'(
I have had a stressfull couple of days which have taken my mind of the upcoming surgery. the stress being to do with having a boss who''s also one of my best friends or a best friend who's also my boss needless to say we have renamed him the drama fairy and he really needs to sort himself out. not exactly what I need right now...
Kris so glad to see you back and it sounds like you gave the knee a good old workout while away I hope it keeps behaving and there are no ill effects of putting it through its paces. As for me showing off you should see what I have done today the house has been steam cleaned to within an inch of its life, so thats one more thing not to have to worry about as this is my last day off untill the op so will head into town soon to get last minuit  things and then I am booked in for a massage later so that hopefully will de stress me a little
Snowy keep up the good work ;D
Take care all Tez   
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 13, 2010, 09:06:01 PM
We really do need to start planning some kind of mass Knee Geeks gathering in the future, once we're all healed up.  ;D Given how spread out across the world we are we'd need to find a suitable central point to meet...hmmm....I hear Iceland is dirt cheap to visit since their economy tanked, and it's just full of hot springs in which to soothe sore knees...  ;)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 13, 2010, 09:26:21 PM
Hey Tez - that's hard- having a boss/friend. I'm sure you got him straightened out - at least that'll have taken your mind off your date for a couple of days.

Good to see you are getting some R&R in too before your op. Are you getting excited yet, or just still nervous? It's such a relief when the day finally arrives after such a long build up. Have you tried your cryo-cuff yet? It was one of the things on my pre-op list that I didn't get around to doing, but as Snowy says, it is relatively simple, so I even managed to work it out in my anaesthetic haze. You'll be fine.

Snowy - YES YES YES - I've been wondering how we can orchestrate some sort of get together - Iceland would be awesome!

Lottie-sending you "happy place" vibes for your adventure with Mr Toryboyonionchoppersteroidjabbingscrewfixcrosssheadorslottyleftylooseyrightytighty -this time tomorrow you'll be stuffing your doggy bag (that didn't quite sound right LoL).

Hope the rest of you are having happy knee moments - Deepak, Zaiem, Kris, Tony and Vicks... and all you peeps that pop by without posting.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 13, 2010, 10:03:06 PM
Lottie I though this would be as good a place as any to catch up with you, to wish you good luck for tomorrow ;D I really hope all goes well and you are back starting the onion journals soon, will be thinking about you tomorrow sending happy healing thoughts your way. As for stuffing you doggie bag just be carefull what you stuff it with :P
Cosmic still not tried out the cryo cuff yet I have been meaning to but so far not got around to it.. I had a fantastic massage today that has made me feel so chilled out and relaxed, while lying there today I was thinking a massage should be part of the whole surgery thing I think a wee massage just before your op would be lovely, any chance we could get it on the n.h.s
I am all for the knee geeks adventure to Iceland those hot springs sound amazing!! so bring it on :) :)
Take care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: zaiemk on July 13, 2010, 10:29:37 PM
H Cosmic and pals

Its good that you OS was happy with his handy work and how you have recovered - been of benefit to me reading your post, I didnt realise there was a later stage in recovery when the graft is still vulnerable.  Thanks.  So take it easy on your long rambles - do you still wear some type of knee support/tubi grip when you're out and about?

Looks like you Lottie and Vickster had a good day - nice pics of fb - like the play doh butterfly :)

Best of luck for tomorrow Lottie.

Take care all
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 13, 2010, 11:05:09 PM
Hi Zaiem-

I'm glad that my posts have been useful to you - a safer sort of long ramble ;) ;D.

The graft re-vascularises and innervates at 6-12weeks, and, although my PT says there is no concrete evidence, it is believed that this is when the graft is at it's weakest... which combined with the bravado of a knee which feels relatively pain free is a risky combination!

I don't wear any support or tubi-grip - it's never been recommended and I find tubi-grip uncomfy, it makes my leg swell! There are differing opinions as to the benefits of bracing - some say it adds stability, some say it compromises the muscles which support the knee. Both are valid.

The three Kneetards luncheon was lovely - the cake idea was courtesy of Google and my daughter's box of cake colours :-)

Hope you are well

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 13, 2010, 11:14:01 PM
Hey all

Thanks for all the birthday wishes!  I have just had my last celebration (I think) - local pub quiz with a bunch of friends, one of whom is my birthday twin  ;D  We came 4th as usual, good to stick with tradition

Lottie - all the very very very best for the onion dicing, Mr ToryBoy has the right political leanings, so even if he is a bit scatty, you'll be great  :D

Tez - you'll be equally fantastic and sounds like your house will be immaculate, ready for the kids to trash it while you are convalescing  ;D

Neelie had a right grump on today in the office (too much sitting?), had to pop 400mg ibuprofen and 1.5 co-codamol (one broke in half and I almost choked on the first bit, so binned the other half - rubbish NHS generics).  Didn't really stop the pain but I did feel as spacy as a spacy thing!  :o  Made the rest of the work day go quickly lol!

No resolution with the insurance company - I came home to a nonsense email from them - referring to someone else entirely and OATS!  The company has an account manager, if I don't actually get some clarity as what they need from the OS tomorrow, I shall be going that route.  All very frustrating, still don't know if or when will be having surgery... the knee is swollen, the pain continues to be immensely unpredictable and quite sore at time!  Grrr

Take care knees of the world and onion begone!!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: ouch09 on July 14, 2010, 02:28:44 AM

Its been a while since I popped over to your cafe, so much has happened. Stop the knee geek world spinning - I want to get off !  ;D

Glad to hear that you're up to walking in the hills, even though you're not meant to ... As Zaiem said, this is really useful info, for when I get to the same stage & get tempted to "see what my knee is capable of".  ;D

Is your knee painful at all now & do you still need to RICE ?


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 14, 2010, 02:39:42 PM

I shall use the cafe to update.....the onion is still intact. I've had a major wobble. MAJOR. last night I just couldn't contemplate the prospect of two bummed out knees with worn out kneecaps and the possibility of a fused big toe joint. I just couldn't do it. Had the onion simply been up for a straighten op, it might have been easier but I knew there was a VERY strong chance he would fuse it if the joint were wearing badly as repeated surgeries just isn't a great plan for any joint. I just sat in our lounge and wiggled my toes and got up and bent it and went on tip toe and realised how much it would be odd if it were fused. I just couldn't accept that I might be losing mobility in my knees as the PFS advances and then choosing to throw in a lack of big toe joint. It is so tough - I guess with the ACLr or similar things you're taking a joint back to function - with the fusion you're destroying something. I couldn't turn that into a positive last night (so perhaps the pain I have isn't bad enough yet!!!) Plus the past 3 weeks the onion has been far more controlled (aren't things like that though when they KNOW something is afoot - literally) and I've started to do some normal things. I know - I'm overly pessimistic but this whole past year has drained me more than I ever imagined; from being super fit and changing career to where I am now has taken a whole lot out of me. The joint issues have come right after 4 months of severe gastric problems last year when I was suspected with an ulcer or hiatus hernia and ended up having tests for that, so I feel for 18 months I have had little respite.

So, I spoke with a lovely night sister at the hospital and explained how I felt - she told me that Mr ToryChopperBoy was such a lovely surgeon he wouldn't want me to check in if I wasn't 100% sure and that I wasn't the first and wouldn't be the last....So here I am. I finally fell asleep at 7.00 this morning. I am being advocate of my own care - this was more than last minute surgery fears, I was scared of compromsing what function I have and slipping into the big pit should it not be the outcome I'd hoped for. I wasn't sure emotionally I could wake up and hear him tell me it was fused.

So, I am going to go see ToryBoy for another consultation and seek his advice on anything like injections etc. He himself told me not to have the op unless I felt I couldn't live with the foot as it was. Not sure I'm there just yet and that a fused joint is a better option than what I have.

To be honest, I'm so sick of the whole pathetic story of my failing lower joints I want to try and forget they exist. I might be AWOL for a few days as I'm just wiped out and a bit upset and extremely tired. R is going to take me to Wales again for a long weekend, and we plan to paddle, eat cake and relax and maybe find somewhere we want to live in 2011. I need some normality!

Sorry to whine and thanks to EVERYONE on here for their thoughts. They mean the world to me, such a lovely bunch of folks.

Going to head to the gym - didn't think I'd be saying that this afternoon.  ::)

Hugs to all in the cafe xxxxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kcknee on July 14, 2010, 03:07:30 PM

I'm sorry that you are going through this now. I do think that since you had doubts on living with a possible outcome of the surgery that you did the right thing delaying the elective surgery. The possibility of having this surgery will still exist for you in the future if it seems right.

Over my vacation, I saw relatives I had not seen in a long time. The topic of bad knees and feet obviously came up as I'm limping around with a knee full of scars. My uncle's girlfriend had 3 ACL replacements due to repeated stupid tearing events and falls and my uncle had one knee op and most recently had a toe joint replaced with an artificial joint since he suffers from I believe hammertoes. My grandmother had problems with her toes and had had multiple toe operations and had even had bones removed. I don't know much about foot/toe problems and do not know if an artificial toe joint could even be something that could be possible for you. My uncle and his wife travel around the US in an RV, but I could find out who his OS is if you want.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on July 14, 2010, 03:20:47 PM
Emma, I am so happy that you were brave enough to cancel a procedure you weren't 100% sure of! As the nurse said I bet this is very common. Only you know for sure what you can "live with" and chronic health drama does get frickn' OLD after a while. Hope you can relax this weekend and decompress a bit. A gym trip and a weekend away sound like just the prescription!

I'm probably going to disappear for a bit as well since I've gotten myself worked up into a bit of a foul mood. Canceled pt today on the grounds that I am sick of it, don't want to go, it's all a pointless waste of time, why is the kneetard still so sore, etc. (Read above statement about my feelings on chronic health drama, yes that makes me a chronic health drama queen!) Going to take a nap and perhaps get some sun instead of hanging out in the orthopedic center, then maybe chug a beer?

xoxo to all of you lovely ladies
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 14, 2010, 03:27:10 PM
Kristen and Kris

BEER - What a darned good plan!! BEER.............................

Thank you both. You help more than you could know. Kristen - I'm UK based so not sure if your relatives are US based? I do trust my surgeon, he has never once tried to force me down a route - more the opposite in fact. My cousin has RA and has no toe joints at all, all removed - they are super floppy, strange but perhaps easier than stiff?!!

I think I get dram Queen of the week award though Kris - me and the toetard were a MESS last night!

Hugs both and thank you xxxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on July 14, 2010, 03:59:56 PM
Nice try... but you can't be a drama queen if you have a valid reason to be a mess! Drama queens throw tantrums thankyouverymuch... watch and learn!  ;D You do win the "most deserving of hugs and beer" award, though. I'll recommend it as a treatment option and prescribe it for myself as well.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 14, 2010, 04:55:29 PM
Lottie - I am proud of you - it takes a lot of courage to get to the 11th hour and admit that the procedure for which you've done all this planning and preparation may not actually be the right thing to do. As you say, a simple onion chop and straighten is one thing, with a fairly certain outcome. Going in knowing that you might have changed mobility for the rest of your life is another thing entirely, and definitely not a route you want to go down until you're certain in your own mind that there's no other way. If there's even a shadow of a doubt, better to wait and give yourself time to explore all the options.

As Kris says, you can't be a drama queen if you have a valid reason to be a mess...and this is a huge deal and a more than valid reason! I'm just glad that you've come to a decision that you're comfortable with, and didn't go through with a surgery you weren't sure was right.

A weekend away sounds like a very good plan; forget about all of it - knees, toes, toryboys, hospitals - and just enjoy the countryside, the beer, and Richard's company. Try and put all of this as far from your mind as you can so you come back refreshed and with the energy for whatever the next steps on your knee-and-toe road might be.

Sending hugs and love from Vancouver. xx

Kris - I hear you on your frustration as well. I think it was the same frustration that was making me sad last night; even though I know I've had this surgery in order to get back to being fully functional, I just feel so very restricted right now and it seems like such a long road ahead, with no prospect of the kind of speedy recovery I was able to push myself through after the injury. I don't mind the hard work of rehab at all, it's the long period of being so limited that feels like a bit of a lead weight. But at least our surgeries are behind us, and everything we do from here is a step in the right direction.

Wish you guys were here so we could all go for a knee sympathy beer on a patio in the sunshine. Heck, I'd offer to host a knee sympathy party on the roof deck, except that most of us would be stuck downstairs!

Be strong, my knee friends. It's a tough journey and bumps on the road - for all of us - are inevitable, and no fun.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: zaiemk on July 14, 2010, 05:58:52 PM
Hey Lottie

Dont be too hard on your self - it was a very difficult decision to make and you were the person who had to make it.  Your reasoning is sound.

Take a break - try and clear your head off all of this.

When you get back see the OS and reassess your options.

Take it easy.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 14, 2010, 06:07:12 PM
Hey Lottie -

Any decision you make under pressure like that HAS to be the right decision because it's the one you ultimately make.... and either way the decision was a tough one.

What you have done is kept your options open - and in anyone's book that's got to be a good thing!

The onions live to see another day - and to be wined and dined and briney-sea dipped  :).

Take time and chill-out in Wales.

 :-* xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 14, 2010, 07:22:45 PM
Evening all

Lottie - I'd just like to echo everything said above.  This was a very brave decision to make .  Surgery is a big deal (especially elective surgery) and if you didn't feel ready or that it was 110% the right decision, then you have made the right one :)

See how the onion bears up, see your OS and/or GP to talk about management of the pain / soreness when you feel ready :)

Beer is definitely a very good idea ... just best not to mix with the co-codamol ;)

On my side, I FINALLY got some sense from the insurance company and have clarified what they need from my OS.  They are not refusing to cover the mfx/membrane combo, they just need written justification from the OS as to why this procedure and not something else :)  I have emailed the OS secretary the information and she is going to talk to him tomorrow.  Obviously, it is quite a scary op for me - however, I am fed up with the pain, just sitting at my desk at work and it hurts, it is distracting me constantly, making it hard to concentrate and actually ****ing me off now   >:(  My foot and ankle are swollen too and achy - can only assume is a by-product of Neelie's strop!

 I went to the gym this afternoon, struggled to walk there but persevered (feels really tight behind knee and as if I can't put weight through it).  The defect area also feels very tender!
Did mainly upper body (need to build up for those crutches  ::) ) but also thought I'd try the static bike to see if the stiffness is more just to do with recent under use...well it might be but every turn of the pedal hurt and I gave up after just 2 minutes of very gentle resistance...darn...not being able to cycle isn't an option and this just underlines my decision to sort it  :(
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 14, 2010, 07:31:31 PM
Lottie you are one brave lady to have the strength to make that decision at the 11th hour takes guts and the conviction that you are making the right decision for youself. It must have been a very hard decision to make and I am sure you have considered eveything,,,So the onions have survived by the skin of their teeth [well they would have if they had teeth]
I hope you have a good weekend away to recharge your batteries and get everything in perspective and mayby even drink lots and lots of pink wine ((((hugs)))))

Kris you also are a gutsy girl who has had her fill at the moment of evil Brad and a knee that wont behave so dont worry about feeling like that I think we all have some days when we feel like life sucks, some days when you just want to get away from the knee and thinking about the knee and talking about the knee..the knee takes over you whole life sometimes and my advice is have a beer no have a lot of beer and feel better soon ((((hugs))))

Just had a read back of what I had written and it would apear my answer to most things seems to be alcahol... should I be worried!!!!!
Take care all you lovely knee geeks Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 14, 2010, 11:40:54 PM
Where would I be without you wonderful folk? THANK YOU so much. I have been considering my 11th hour opting out as a bit of a chicken coward reaction. I was stunned in many ways - up until about 4.00 pm I was packed, ready, crutch practice completed.....then I wiggled my bloody toes!!!  :o ::)  So, as you say, the decision was made, and I am glad I made it this way. I fear the onion is going to need something at some stage - it still aches and clearly isn't happy but I am just so not sure I can face having a fused big toe joint.  :-\   Perhaps I do need to speak with him about alternative ways of approaching this at the first stage - be that injection, a debride via scope...whatever....but tonight I've had pink wine, ice cream (bought for post op!) and a DVd with my FAB husband.

Now - bed time.

Vicks - good news on the insurance. Neelie is being a pain, and as we said at lunch this week, its a balance isn't it. Yes the op has risks, and if Neelie perhaps stopped you walking 20 miles or ached after a particularly long day but was generally OK, perhaps you'd grit your teeth and get on with things. But, she is affecting pretty basic tasks and it kind of crosses the line. When the onion stops me walking to the fridge to get wine it will be diced!

Kris sorry you're a bit cheesed off too, how tedious do these knees become after a while in our heads?

Tez - thanks for the support.  8)  You're a star.

Cosmic - just digging myself from the balloon animals, you've created a monster in Richard.  ::) x

Thank you everyone once again, you've blown me away with the support.

Hugs to all knees from Bob and the prog rockers (Greatest Hits CD out tomorrow folks.....Walk on By, Green Onions, The Cutter, Dancing Drama Queen...etc)  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 15, 2010, 01:12:58 AM
Cowardly would be opting out of an op that you were certain was the right thing to do just because you were scared of the op itself or of the recovery. Cancelling an op because you have real doubts that making a permanent change to your mobility and function is the right (or indeed the only) option isn't cowardly at all, it's smart and sensible. However, it's still not an easy decision when you're so close and have put so much planning into the op and your recovery.

This may be a stupid question, but is it possible to get the onion straightened without getting the toe fused, and then look at other options for it after Mr Toryboy has had a chance to take a look at the joint and see exactly what's going on?

Where are you headed in Wales? I always have great memories of a converted lighthouse on the Severn estuary where my ex and I had one of the best long weekends away of our relationship - it had a flotation tank and a shower inside an old red phone box, a giant waterbed in our room, a dalek in the lobby, and a teeny dining area and bar inside the light of the lighthouse where you could watch the Severn bore rush in.

Vickster - it seems like you're having the opposite experience to Lottie, where everything is telling you that you are making the right decision by moving ahead with the operation. It does sound like Neelie has had every chance to cooperate and nothing is making her any less grumpy, so it's time. I'm glad you're seeing some light at the end of the insurance tunnel.

I'll be updating my own thread later, but I'm sure most of you have already seen my frankenknee pictures over on Facebook. It was great to get the bandages off and take a shower but holy smokes, the poor thing bears no resemblance whatsoever to the knee I know and (mostly) love.

I have a friend coming over to visit tonight - looking forward to some interaction!

Happy knee nights all,

Kay x
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 15, 2010, 05:11:40 PM
Greetings all

I shall update in the cafe! I am seeing Mr ToryBoy on the 26th July (he is on hols next week, not sure how he can afford that; as Vicks said my lack of surgery probably means he can't service his 911.... :P perhaps he is off to Skeggy for some candy floss and chips) to discuss a) injection and b) debridement. Snowy - you are right about the fusion element. It is not actually the onion that hurts - it is the arthritic changes in the joint. So, although it is ugly as **** the valgus could stay if the spurs and cartilage damage were looked at. This could be done via a scope and involves a much shorter recovery, but with a far less certain outcome. It is rare that it makes things worse though, it just might not improve the function that much although removing the spurs would help with shoe choice and possibly drilling the cartilage could help smooth function. All this could equal less stabbing pains! He mentioned this before as an option but me being me was keen for one surgery - so perhaps I was a tad hasty!! He totally agreed that delaying was the best move and said even if I'd checked in and chatted to him and been unsure he would have advised a rethink for a while.

I am also going to have a steroid shot in Bob next week, (eeeek) to see how he responds. I am ALSO going to try and see about the stem cell trial being mentioned at Oswestry for early knee OA. Not 100% sure about it as it seems you would be randomised (as is the case with trials) and one of the conditions is ACI - NOWAY am I having ACI on my patella, its too risky and probably wouldn't bed in. I'd stick with Mr Shetty and his silly putty next year!

So, me and the large needles are going to get friendly over the next 2 weeks.

In terms of Wales, we are off to an area just south of Cardiff, which isn't the most stunning part but is the closest for us and we need to combine tomorrow with Richard doing a work meeting down that way. My fave places in Wales are St Davids, right on the Western tip and Saundersfoot on the Pembroke coast. Stunning scenery and the latter was my favourite place for childhood holidays. I shall and attahc a shot from when R and I went there for our very first weekend away together. Fond memories!  :D

Tez - how are you feeling? I know that jittery feeling well. Don't do a Lottie though!!!  :o 8)

Vicks - Neelie will need to get some new eyes to help her recover.  ;D

Snowy - your Frankenknee is still super strong looking, I shall reply to your thread in a while!

Cosmic - my lounge is FULL of darned balloon animals.... ::)

Zaiemk, how are things coming along? Hope all is good.  :)

Hugs to all,

Lottie xxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 15, 2010, 07:06:50 PM
Mr. Toryboy can't be all Tory on the inside - it sounds like he's actually pretty compassionate and sympathetic. At least it looks good for you being able to work with him to find a solution that you're more comfortable with, which is great. I can understand the urge to just have one op, but in the long run it probably is better to start with the conservative measures and see how you get on before making any decisions that might result in irreversible changes for the worse.

Will be really interested to hear how you get on with the stem cell trial.

Beautiful picture - I have a huge soft spot for Wales and it was also the scene of many happy long weekends back in my UK days. I can't remember if I mentioned this, but I went to university in Aberystwyth and loved the area. If for some reason Canada had rejected me, I would have seriously considered moving to either Aber or Dublin.

Hope everyone else is doing well. I just went and collected the mail - one small task I can take off J's hands as I get more mobile. Today will be interesting as I'm cutting the oxycodone in half - a big drop - but I'm just sick of feeling stupid and sleepy half the time.

Oh - here's a story that you guys will appreciate. J is a keen runner, and last winter she decided that her big goal would be to sign up for the Vancouver Marathon - her first - this May. Due to a variety of disasters, including sick kitties and my hapless crash on the ski slopes, her training schedule got thrown way off and by April she was only just working up to the really long training runs. After one 20k run she developed really bad shin splints and a pulled muscle, and couldn't train at all for the three weeks leading up to the marathon. She went out on the day with no real expectations, and during the run the shin splints and muscle pain got so bad that a fireman actually tried to pull her off the course for medical treatment because she was limping so badly. She waved him off (turning down treatment from a hot fireman - now there's dedication) and finished the race.

It's now two months later, and the shin splints are still so bad that she hasn't been able to resume running and has been getting a lot of pain just walking the 6k to work. She went to see the doctor and got x-rays earlier this week, and it turns out she has a fractured tibia. That's right - my wife ran a marathon on a broken leg.

Now I really feel like a wuss. ;)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 15, 2010, 08:07:18 PM
Hey all

Snowy - marathon running on broken leg = impressive...has the fracture healed or is she now plastered?  :o

My left ankle / foot continues to be a little achy/sore and swollen, so on Mummy Tez's advice, I went to see my GP (I completely forgot to tell the OS when I saw him 2 weeks ago) ... she didn't think it is worth sending me for an x-ray at the moment, didn't think due to heat (as only swollen on outside and top rather than all the way round), nor  the bug bite on my leg!  So probably some sort of sprain (not that I recall doing anything to it), suggested wearing a support and taking bog-basic ibuprofen and paracetamol, also rest it (well I am doing that due to Neelie so no worries).  She measured my calves, no real difference in size, asked if an issue with calf - hard to say as I had back surgery when I was 20 and have had altered sensation in my left leg ever since

However, go back in 2weeks if no improvement.  Could be down to dodgy neelie-inflicted gait, stretching ligaments, walking funny on it.  Here's hoping, I am not harbouring a hidden fracture  :o  Wouldn't that be ironic...or at least somewhat inconvenient!!

We had a bit of a chat about the bitch knee, she was cross that the insurers haven't yet agreed to cover the op given how young I am (I like this GP ;) ) , she asked if it is arthroscopic and looked a bit concerned that its open  :-\

Did 40 lengths crawl in pool today and had a sit in the jacuzzi.  Had a bit of mad head spin when I got out of the spa, not eaten much today, assume low blood sugar! It's just one thing after another right now  ::)

That's enough of feeling sorry for myself, hugs to all the knees and onions of the world!  ;D

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: zaiemk on July 15, 2010, 09:04:52 PM
Hi all

Nice to catch up with everyone in the cafe - its been a busy week in here.

First a question, as someone who is teetotal, is the beer for internal use or external, like a beer soak for bad joints?  :)

Vickster - really good that you have got some info from the insurance company, should hopefully be resolved when your OS responds with the info they need - good luck.  On the pain/swelling at the ankle - I suffered with the same post ACL injury and rupture - you may be right, it could be an adjustment in your gait to cope with Neelie.  I got an orthotic insole and it eased it off after a few weeks.  I was getting extra strain  on the outside of my leg down to my ankles, I noticed my mild over-pronation was more pronounced.

Lottie - Steroid shots into the knee - you are like one of those professional footballers - I hope you dont party like them ;D.  I could barely cope with having my staples snipped out today.  Hope you have a nice time near Cardiff - the city has changed a lot - I was at the Poly of Wales in the late 80's and Cardiff was a bit rough back then, but still lots of character.  Its had a lot of regeneration, especially around the waterfront.

Snowy - respect to Jen - that is some going.  Suffered with shin splints and its absolutely murder, when I used to get it bad I couldnt lift my toes/foot up, it used to drag along for about 5/6 hours after exercise/football - never anything as exerting as a marathon.  To have shin splints and then find out she has a fractured tibia, that's got to be really painful.  She's going to have to start her own thread now...

Tez - Its nearly time - Hope you're doing OK and dont end up having too much to do over the weekend.  Get your nest ready.

Cosmic - I hope you're keeping well.

Take care everyone

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 15, 2010, 09:12:49 PM
Evening all I hope everone is feeling the love tonight ;)
Vicky so pleased you went to your g.p  :) at least you listened to me... more than my kids do thats for sure... and at least you have flagged the problem with the doc and if theres no improvement in a couple of weeks  then there should be some more investigation into what is causing the pain and swelling.
Snowy poor Jen she must have been in so much pain running on a fracturen tibia I can see why you two are so well suited your both action women who are a tad accident prone ;D ;D what kind of treatment will she be having for the fracture?  
Lottie I am  feelling pretty calm at the moment not sure when that will change but have been getting so many good wishes and cards etc from my clients that it really makes me feel a bit emotional, maybe thats how the nerves are going to effect me there will be tears and snotters before Monday I can gaurentee it ::)
Cosmic and all other cafe regulars I hope you are all feeling good and the knees are behaving
Take care Tez  
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 16, 2010, 12:05:56 AM
Vickster - it's mostly healed by itself so no plaster, but she will probably need some PT - she's been limping for a while and has some tendon issues as a result.

Glad to hear you saw the doc, but not so glad about the sprain - you sure don't need anything else on top of all Neelie's grumbling and complaints. Hopefully it will settle down soon.

Zaiem - for now I'd have to settle for an external beer rub (I've been off alcohol since about a month before the op, apart from a couple of beers on Canada Day) but boy am I missing the internal treatment! Back when we were a smaller gang and it looked as though Tony, Tez and I would all be getting our ops in July we started calling ourselves the ACLr musketeers, and I found a bottle of craft beer at a local store called "Les Trois Musketeers." It's been sitting in the fridge waiting for a toast when all three of us are through to the other side.

Tez - normally I'm the one who has all the accidents, but perhaps it's catching! Jen is physically hard as nails - twice as fit as I am (at least!) and even though she's 5'1" she can beat the crap out of 6 foot, 250lb guys at her martial arts gym. Sounds like the fracture will mostly have taken care of itself by now, so she just needs a bit of physio for the residual issues from limping.

Glad that you're still calm right now. Reality didn't hit me till 24 hours before the op; then I got very nervous indeed. Having had the experience of the scope will stand you in good stead, and it sounds like you'll get top-notch pain control if they're keeping a line in your knee. You'll do fine. :)

It's a smoking hot day here today and Jen is out watering the flowers on the deck - I'm tempted to wander out and ask her to turn the hose on me! Perhaps just another cryocuffing instead...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 16, 2010, 12:24:07 AM
Hi All -

Let's do the Diary bit first so this thread can justify it's place in the post-op >100replies category!!

Latest development is very bizarre - every so often I get a feeling like there is hot custard running down my calf! I guess it's something to do with the feeling gradually returning to the numb patch to the front of my shin). More bizarre was the need to look and check that I didn't have hot custard running down my calf  :D !
The numb bit does feel warmer when it happens so it's probably a flush of blood. Not uncomfortable or painful, just really weird.

Single leg dips and squats continue to be a challenge - causing pain and leaving the knee generally unhappy. I'm not sure if doing more of them will help (because it will strengthen the quads) or hinder (because it's aggravating the knee).

I've been very good and put any plans for extending my range of exercise on hold. I was very tempted to go back into the dojang to do some basic TKD stances - superb for quads!.... but I just know I'll get suckered into doing too much. Same with the bike. So like Snowy, I'm being very good, sticking to protocol (I'm sure it did mention flip flops and hills!).

Now don't laugh - I know Vicks took Neelie to see KoL... I'm afraid I'm showing my age and am very excited at having booked to go and see......  The Pet Shop Boys!!... at the Bournemouth International Centre next Tuesday. The website said there were only standing tickets left, so I called the ticketline and they have found some upper circle seats suitable for a knee compromised person.
I always remember the Pet Shop Boys' shows having rave reviews for the dramatics stage performances - so it'll be interesting to see what Cam and Ele make of it all.

Well, this has ended up being posted somewhat later than I anticipated - I've had a surprise visit from the guy I handed my martial arts school onto last September - we've spent a merry 3 hours catching up. The school is still going from strength to strength, which is so lovely to hear. I thought it might make me maudlin, but I'm still fine about not making any decisions regarding returning to TKD/KB until further down the rehab road.

Apologies for not remembering who, but someone posted a question regarding icing/elevating.... I haven't needed to ice since about week 3 - but I do tend to elevate when (if) I sit down. The swelling which persisted was mainly calf swelling as opposed to knee swelling, and icing didn't seem to help (gentle heat was actually more relief).

Marathon running is mad - let alone on a fracture!  :o  :o. There must be a special medal for that!

Beer - hmmm topical application sounds great - a beer bath!

Tez - tick tock tick tock.... ;D I hope you are cool calm and collected xxx

Tony - get on that phone and tell them they'll have a world of Kneegeeks to answer to if they don't get you that appointment soon!!!

Lottie - Saundersfoot - I'm surprised we didn't see you by the doughnut stand - that's where we went on holiday as kids too :-)

Vicks - good that you've been to the GP even if she has taken the conservative approach to your swelling - it'll be on your medical records which can only help you case with the insurance!

Snowy - god work on the meds - I was told at 6 days I could drive as long as was off the meds, by that time I was only taking one dose of morphine a day, so came off all meds by day 8 (apart from a couple of ibuprofen every now and then) so I could drive  :P.

Zaiem - haven't had a chance to catch up with your progress today - but hope you are well

Deepak - how's it going?


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: ouch09 on July 16, 2010, 12:40:10 AM

It was me who asked you about swelling & icing/elevating, so thanks for answering. You're doing better than me at replying to people on my thread - where does the time go during the day ?????!!!!  ???

I'm doing well thanks. I'm aching from yesterday's upper-body workout at the gym, which is a much better feeling than not being able to sleep because you're not physically tired ;)


If you are a drama queen, I am a drama king (or would be if I passed those Holywood auditions ...) !  ;D


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 16, 2010, 12:56:01 AM
Hey Deepak - good to "see" you - I'm a bit pants at getting around everyones threads at the moment - there is so much going on both online and off! I remember saying during those early days (when I spent hours online for something to do- and even took the laptop to bed with me for when I woke in the night) that my surfing was unsustainable once mobility returned - and with it some semblance of normality!

Hence resorting to 1am updates LoL.

Good that you're getting the upper body work in - I found (find) it doesn't take a lot to make me sleepy (putting a film on to watch with the kids usually does it!) but it's the quality of sleep that evades me  :-\.

Time to find that soft cool pillow  :)

Night all x
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 16, 2010, 03:38:43 PM
Well, the OS letter has arrived and been dispatched to the insurers.  Clearly argues why a simple MFX is not a good course of action even though the defect is within the 2cm2 parameters (as neelie doesn't like her current fibrocartilage, and new is likely to come with the same issues)...OATS and MACI are other options, but he recommends the single stage MFX + membrane option to produce a more durable repair over the osteochondral defect and much improve my symptoms. 

I guess now I wait, but am pencilled in for the 23rd September...special theatre  :-\ not available on 16th and fits better with work commitments...

Hope all the knees are well and the onions are enjoying the trip abroad to Wales  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 16, 2010, 07:44:41 PM
Ah Cool Vicks - do you have any idea how long the approval process takes?
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 16, 2010, 08:36:00 PM
Vicky that sound most promising the 23rd of Sept is not too long to wait, all we have to do now is pray that the insurance co accept's your O.S reasons why this treatment is more suitable than anything else and the it will be go go girl  ;)
Cosmic the hot custard running down your calf!! is actually very discriptive and I get what you mean but just wondered if this is something that has happened in the past  ???  have you ever had hot custard running down your calf??
Good for you refraining from getting back into martial arts and all things not too good for a brand new acl, too soon
hope you all enjoy the Pet Shop Boys they were never one of my favorite 80s bands but they should put on a good show, we went  to see Spandu Ballet last year at the SECC and they were totally amazing. Dougie has surprised me with tickets for Sunday night to go and see a fantastic singer called Horse she is a Scottish singer who has never really made it big but has been going for ages she has released quite a few albums but for some reason never made it really big even though she has a brillient voice, you should have a wee look online and see if you can listen to her voice her name is Horse McDonald and shes deffo worth a listen,
so that should keep my mind off the drilling and chopping happening the next day  :o
Lottie I hope you have a great weekend in far away Wales andall you other knee geeks have a good weekend   
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 16, 2010, 08:44:32 PM
..Tez - I forgot to answer a question you asked last week regarding returning to work..... I'm pretty much on my feet all day (just not very good a sitting down) - up at 6:30 be around whilst Cam gets ready for school and then straight off for dog walk after dropping Ele at 9am. .... I usually sit intermittently between taxi duties in the evening, and to date the knee has been fine - although there may be a difference between walking for long periods and standing.
You may find that returning gradually would be gentler on you new knee - start off with mornings (or afternoons if more your thing) ... and increase as you feel you can.... anyway - give yourself a chance to get through the early days and then assess how you feel.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 17, 2010, 12:12:56 AM
Cosmic - I don't know, last time about 5 minutes  ::)  The insurance know that the plan is for September, was the 16th...

I presume now they have all the info, assuming they are satisfied, it'll be settled quite soon (here's hoping they don't insist it is a day surgery this time - I have been told one to two nights in  :o )

23rd September is quite a long time away, but suits work and 'Mummy Care Inc' ... also gives Neelie time to grow up and get over her teenage angst, so I can avoid the chop, not that I expect that too happen!

Might see if I can get a gig or two in, and maybe a holiday as obviously 6 weeks off work post op isn't enough lol!

I saw PSB in Hammersmith a couple of years ago and they were really good...enjoy!

I have managed to snaffle a bigger carpark space at work where I will actually be able to open the door fully - I expect once I am cleared to drive and return to work, I will need to be a little cautious of twisting the repair!  Getting in and out of the car was a nightmare post injury and pre scope!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 17, 2010, 01:05:26 AM
Cosmic - hot custard, eh? In the larger scheme of things I guess that's better than cold custard, but still doesn't sound too much fun. My numb patch is still huge at the moment (I gather that's normal, and most of the feeling should come back inside a couple of weeks) and kind of gives me the creeps when I'm showering and cleaning the leg. For some reason that's when it's most noticeable.

I've heard the same thing about PSB gigs, although I had no idea they were still touring! I'm amazed they're still around. I was quite a fan back in the day when they were still in the charts regularly, and I think still have an album or two on my ipod. Chris Lowe was actually a regular in the last central London reference library I worked in before moving here. I hope the show lives up to expectations!

Glad to hear that your martial arts school is doing well in your absence. Would you go back to the school even if you weren't going to participate at the same level, or is that not a decision you've made yet? Wish I could get you and J together - she's been heavily involved in martial arts for about 10 years (mainly KB and BJJ) and I'm sure the two of you would get on like a house on fire!

Vickster - that's good news on the letter; hopefully that will soothe the insurers and all will go smoothly from here. Definitely pack as much as you can into the time between now and surgery; with a long recovery ahead, there's a lot that you won't be able to do for a while afterwards. I'm having horrible withdrawals, especially from my pool, that I'm trying not to think too much about!

Hope you're all doing well and that the knees are behaving themselves. I'm making a little progress every steps, but I know they'll add up in the end. It just feels awfully slow from where I'm sitting!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 17, 2010, 04:01:06 PM
Doing my flying visit between music lessons and Cam's gig this evening....

Snowy - apparently it can take up to 2 years to restore feeling to the numb patch - and sometimes it never completely returns.....  :-\ . A lifetime of hot custard ....  ;)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 21, 2010, 03:45:56 AM
I thought I would pop into Cosmics cafe as I feel as if its been a while and I miss it.
Cosmic how are you doing? how is the hot custard running down your leg feeling I hope its improving :)
Lottie the lady in the next bed that had her toe fused had a fair bit of pain last night she was in her late 60s I guessed and had been having problems with both her feet for quite a while so she had the fist one done and will probably have the second done next year, I think like you she wasn't sure whether the surgeon would fuse the toe or not going into surgery but the damage was worse than expected hence the toe fusing as I said she is to be NWB for 6 weeks in plaster for the 6 weeks but the surgeon will remove the wire from her toes in 3 weeks, I think you may have had a lucky escape.
I hope all the other cosmic cafe regulars are all doing well take care
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 21, 2010, 08:25:37 AM
Hi all
Nothing much to report at my end...still waiting to hear from the insurance company but they did receive the OS letter, case to be reviewed. 

Knee is pretty sore but this morning it looks not too swollen (had some ice last night), will probably react as soon as I start moving around.  She doesn't like the heat I think, nor sitting in meetings or on trains where it just seems to stiffen up and ache.  Feeding her 400mg of ibuprofen once or twice a day as needed, not ideal to need drugs but hey. 

Went to the gym last night for the first time in a while (have been sticking to the swimming), did the upper body weights (yawn) and then got on the static bike for 12 minutes - around 75-80rpm on level 3 (2 miles in all) and it didn't feel very good, no fluidity in the knee, felt kind of grindy and catchy  :(  Was pretty sore trying to do some stretches (standing quad stretch a ccomplete no no), to be honest neelie is grumpier than when I was hammering her in the gym and on the bike - so much for rest helping (now been ~9 weeks).  The rest is also making my leg muscles weaker, I have been trying to do a few basic PT exercises before bed, but they are a struggle.  Once the op is confirmed, I think I'll go see the physio and get a knee-friendly pre-hab regimen of exercises that won't inflame neelie!

Anyhow, enough of my grumbling and I need to get ready for work...

Hope all the other knees and onions of the world are behaving  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 21, 2010, 08:55:03 AM
Morning all in the cafe!

How is everyone? Tez, I hope you're doing OK, I note you were posting in the wee small hours; I guess sleep may be disrupted for a while...sending you positive thoughts! Interesting on the toe fusion; sounds like a different procedure to ToryBoyChopper's proposal as I would not have wire that needed removing, no cast and would be WB from the start as tolerated. I think the wire and cast is when the joint has been at a different angle and they break further up or down or something. I was chatting to a podiatrist I know at the gym yesterday (he sorted out my running shoes a couple of years ago when I had knee function..) and he said that a toe fusion isn't the end of the world, and I'd be pretty much fully functional when i got used to it - sports etc all should be fine but I'd be limited in heel choice and also find things like flip flops a struggle. He said basicaly wait til the toe is SO painful you'd let someone chop it off, then just have one op. He also said that 9 times out of 10 a surgeon will fuse it as usually if you have pain, a simple clean up etc doesn't do much and can just create more pain until you end up with fusion. He said recovery is long mainly because the foot swells for a LONG time but otherwise its OK. He is a skier and he has friends who ski with fused toes. Wow - I can't ski now - result!!  ::) :P

Vicks - Neelie is a being a pain. I think you're right to try and do some exercises, if you have the surgery then the stronger the leg is the faster it will bounce back. Definitely see a PT and get a program of stuff to do, especially things you can do through the day and repeat at night in front of telly etc. Multiple reps, low resistance things are the key and should get some strength back. Avoid the standing quad stretch - it places force on the kneecap - get on the power plate, lie on your front and let the plate massage the quads. Weird but will help loosen them, ditto with calves and IT band. Vibrate baby!!! The onion doesn't like the heat much either, wuld be happier in a chiller cabinet but Bob loves the warmer weather - was chatting to another friend at the gym yesterday who has no knee cartilage left (former rugby player) but is MEGA fit and he said how wonderful the summer was for us prematurely aged arthritic knee folk!  8)

Cosmic how are things going? It was the Pet Shop Boys last night was it not? I have seen them 3 times and they are simple one of my fave live acts. I love their music, so 80s and 90s and brings back many happy memories. This latest show was probably not the best but was still good - and the old faves get you dancing in the aisles (with caution...) Looking forward to the next sea outing, Bob has his spade and knotted hankie packed  8)  The onions are getting quite familiar with the beach environment, they'll be surger dude onions at this rate.

Anyone else out there in the cafe? Kris how is Big Brad and the ramping up of the activity?  :o ;D

Snowy - I see you've been swimming!!!  :o 8)  I thought water was banned for weeks? Great news that you're able to get back into the wet stuf!!

Take care all knee and toes,

Lottie xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on July 21, 2010, 10:39:49 AM
Hi all! We've been sort of delinquent here I guess with all of the excitement on snowy and tez's post-ops  :)

The big Brad ramp-up will be this afternoon. I saw him Monday for the first time since he was away right after I got back into town. He popped the living sh** out of my kneecap so I guess that "patellar mobility" must still be an issue. Also he came back more tan than me which is ANNOYING!

Went to the gym yesterday- made it just over 3 miles on the bike at a level 4. The PT bike is definitely a lot kinder than the gym model- I am getting some achy pain across the front of the knee as I pedal, so I can only do it for 15 minutes yet. Walked on the treadmill after and that was a lot more comfortable. Am sore today but that's probably from the leg press and extension machines as much as the cardio ones. It's hard not to overdo it after being inactive for so long... my back and triceps are yelling at me today too! I am still waiting to hear if my pt got approved this time around, as everything should be getting resubmitted any time now. Really hope I don't have to file the "appeal and grievance package" as it looks like a tremendous pain.

Emma the more we hear about the chop surgery- it sounds gruesome. Hope the onion is behaving- does he know how lucky he is to have his life spared?

Vickster- good job on the prehab, I know it's such a drag sometimes, but I think those who don't do it pay in the end. Got my fingers crossed that all of this insurance stuff goes through quickly.

hope all's well in knees and toes!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 21, 2010, 11:32:10 AM
Good morning lovely people
hope all is well with everybody Lottie I think the cast and the NWB were a bit of a shock to the lady in the next bed [sorry I cant remember her name] so I guess the surgery was more extensive than she thought, I think its one of these things probably with most surgery you dont know exactly what you will find untill the surgeon gets in there, I deffo think the onion had a lucky escape.
Vicky poor Neelie is giving you so many problems just now, but at least you know the whole rest thing is not going to work so the surgery looks like your best or possibly only option, I also think a wee session with your physio sounds like a good idea so he can give you a neelie friendly programe to follow.
Kris good luck with big bad Brad today I hope he dosen't get too mean and at least smiles a little as he causes you pain ;)
Cosmic how was the concert last night I hope you and the kids had a good time.
Take care Tez   
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 21, 2010, 12:12:43 PM
Morning/Afternoon again.....

Tez - I'd be shocked waking up in a cast and NWB for 6 weeks too!!! Poor lady! Although if it sorts it, then 6 weeks isn't long at all. The podiatrist man also said to me to bear in mind that if I had first surgery to correct the onion and clean up the joint it would be pinned to re-align the onion. OK. But, if the pain returns (and its pretty certain it would do at some time along the years because of the arthritis) then the pins need removing, the joint surfaces need cleaning and new pins and plates need inserting to fuse the joint. This *can* mean a bone graft from the hip as the big toe doesn't have enough to keep doing extensive repairs on it. EEEEK. that is then 6-8 weeks NWB and often a cast - and chance of longer recovery. Everything I now find out indicates WAIT til its severely bad, and then have one op and fuse it and correct it. Its behaving pretty well, I'm being sensible with shoes and also doing a lot of toe wiggling, he said the more I can wiggle the better! Ibuprofen Lysine also seems to knock any pain on the head so I'll soldier on!  ;D

Kris - ouch patella mobes, I feel your pain. I hope Big Brad isn't too harsh on you! How is the kneetard feeling in general? Getting easier each day?

Right, early lunch time then some gym then meeting hubby to buy a new shaver - his blew up this morning. Its a wild life. Might sneak in a cheeky dinner at prezzo whilst we're out.... :P 8)

Hugs to all

Lottie x
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 21, 2010, 07:14:50 PM
Hi chaps and chapesses!

Well - Pet Shop Boys were superb - a real trip down memory lane as many of the early tunes were around when Mr Cosmic and I first met (1985!!) ... and we did see one of their tours around that time (somewhere I have a photo of me wearing a fetching PSB baseball cap...). I've never felt a wave of nostalgia quite like it! They were supported by Sophie Legsallthewaytotheground Ellis-Bexter who also put on a very good set.
...and we had to follow tradition and stop at the Night Owl for a vegeburger afterwards (I was only a couple of years older than Cam when we used to do that!!). FAB  ;D

Very little to report on the knee front. I am popping to the local Country Club (don't you know darlings) tomorrow to check out the pool - they have an indoor and an outdoor pool, jacuzzi and steam room  :P .... open from 7am last admission 10pm which is OOODLES better than the availability at the local sports centre (which is also the secondary school pool so not available during school time or after school when swimming lessons are going on or during kayak lessons or private swimming lessons......)..... I'm a fish out of water in water so I need somewhere with minimal visibility - where I can splash around and sing the Little Mermaid song to encourage inspired swimming!

Hot custard still happens at the oddest times. Twisting is a definite no-no, had to turn quickly to grab the mutt last week and it hurt! Persisting with the devilish one legged dips - slowly seeing improvements in quantity and depth of dip. Walking an average of 6 miles a day - longest this week was just under 10miles. The dog was so pleased to be home!!
Extension - hmmmph  :-\. It looks straight until you compare it to the good knee, and certainly doesn't feel straight - pain when walking if I weight-bear when flexing through from it's current full extension, and I still lack the muscular control around those last few degrees that I do have - so I still find at times that it snaps back, which can take my breath away!

FRUSTRATED! Not that I didn't expect it. It is soooo tempting just to try some stretching and leg work in the dojang coz I know when to stop/what I can risk doing; so tempting to hop on the bike and go for a small ride (could ride on even roads to the pool!), so tempting so stand at the net and hold a racket for badminton...... but it's a bit like ice-cream to me. I can't just have a little bit!! I WANT THE WHOLE TUB     ;D ;) !!!!

Other breaking news .... Ele Cam and I are all booked on for Camp Bestival on 30th July - a weekend festival held about 5 miles away at Lulworth Castle. It's a real family event. Two out of three of Cameron's band are also going with their families - so it should be fantastic fun ..... one mum has hired a gypsy caravan to sleep in  :). Pray for sunshine - as being a kneetard camping in a muddy field wouldn't be fun! Question is do I take the mansion 16 berth-can-park-the-car-in-it-and-still-have-space-to-party Kyham tent (ie can I be bothered to put it up?) or two teeny tiny two-man tents?

Also on the cards - exciting news, is a trip to Capetown....Mr Cosmic was given two days notice to move from Lagos, Nigeria to South Africa. He has just phoned me from the apartment he has been allocated - if you've got streeview on Googlemaps looks up Leisure Bay Hotel, Cape Town, Milnerton - that's where he is - right next to the ocean  :o  ;D.  So I'm looking a tickets for the first week in August for three weeks (Dog sitter and cat snuggler allowing). 12 hour direct flight so the kneetard will have to be on best behaviour!

Next week I am hosting two (brothers) of our top young (well, young to me!!) TKD instructors (who also happen to be International Gold Medallists!) for three days - they are mad mental nuts and very lovely.... I have designed a magical itinerary for them including

 :)  breakfast on the beach,
 :)  a showing at our local cinema (the only gas lit cinema in the UK, has double "petting" seats on the back row, and an ice cream lady who sells her wares from a tray around her neck during the interval),
 :)   :)a trip to a small village called Tyneham that was comandeered byt the armed forces for target practice during the second world war:252 people were displaced with 2 weeks notice, and despite promises that they would return the land is still in military ownership, and apart from the schoolhouse and church is mostly derelict....
 :) TKD training at my old school (they were visiting Instructors over the last couple of years)
 :) PYO dinner at the local farm!
 :) Legendary chips (and fish for the non-veggies) at the cafe on the end of Portland Bill much to see and so little time... Snowy I bet you felt the same when your parents visited!

Wow, so now we have Snowy and Tez forging forward with new body bits :-). Tony we need you to complete the set so Snowy can drink her Three Musketeers beer!

Snowy - cool your rehab is truly underway - every day gets better :-)))

Tez - you are such a star. I hope you are taking your own very good advice and resting good and proper. I'll pop in at your place to catch up with the news.....

Lottie - I bet you are so glad with your decision, especially as the onions are behaving! Scouting some alternative cake venues for your next visit  ;D - would the onions like to be dipped in the same bit of sea, or a different bit- coz we could take the chain ferry to "the other side! ... Sandbanks, and hang out with all the football managers ..... !

Vicks - I think you are being very wise with your decision to do some gentle mobilisation and get advice. Knees are such peculiar things - sometimes it's better for them to be rested, sometimes to be used. You know your knee (even you "amended" knee) best, so listen carefully to it (ignoring the pops, clicks, graunches and grates) and do what makes you feel most comfortable.

Kris - Big Bad windy-grimace Brad. I really could do a bit of his gung-ho hands-on PT over here to get those elusive degrees, can you send him over? How dare he have a better suntan than you! Hope your PT funding comes through OK.

Well, that's killed a happy half an hour! I guess I can't put off burning the ironing/dinner any longer.

Hope you are all having shiny sunny days!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 21, 2010, 07:32:24 PM


There. That's my useful contribution to the the thread done.  :P


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 21, 2010, 07:51:39 PM
.....Miracles I can't do - Fish and Chips I can! Swanage or Portland or Parkstone-near-Poole-Park and the pedaloe boats on Poole Park Lake  :o :-\ ... or all three  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 21, 2010, 07:52:34 PM
Great to hear from you Cosmic! South Africa, Cape Town must be lovlier than Lagos?  Good to get that summer holiday sorted too!  Are you ok to fly long haul so soon after the op?

Hope you can deal with the frustration of having to restrict your activities, it is the worst!

I spoke to the insurance company this pm.  Apparently, the case manager (same dippy bint who sent me an email about a completely different patient) has the neelie choppage on her 'task list' and has been trying to get hold of my OS's secretary all day for more information, so all looks hopeful.  I don't think the OS works on a Wednesday (at least in his private practice, may be hacking knees on the NHS  :o ) which could well explain why she didn't get back to them.  I have sent the secretary a gentle nudge email too...If they get the information, the decision will be taken very quickly so fingers crossed.  If this week, I will try to get into see the physio on Monday to get a plan for torturing Neelie and also get a better idea of the AMIC rehab protocol that they use!

My diet isn't going well, fed up with eating salad (am fighting my way through a mountain as we speak)...not put weight on but not lost a lot lately either...don't know if I am going to shed those 6kg by 23rd September.  Maybe getting the op approved will give me new impetus to meet my w/l goal?

One good thing - I left the freezer door open last night, so I can't have choc ice after my salad  ::)

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 21, 2010, 08:02:51 PM
Vicks -

oooh diet  :-[ - I'm so impressed with how much you have lost DESPITE your Neelie restrictions - and you looked so different at your birthday lunch. If it helps I am trying to shed the extra pounds I have gained after nearly a year of relative inactivity. Weight loss does go in stages - keep going and you will see it disappear. The fact that you have lost it through careful eating and exercise should mean that it stays off, as opposed to the soup/shake/meal bar option  :-X. YOU CAN DO IT!!!

Most unlike me I am being very unscientific about my wieght - and haven't stepped on the scales; I've got a few key pieces of clothing that are my target! I reckon I've got about 1.5stone to loose -  so 6kg would be great. Do you want to be my 6kg buddy? I guess I'd have to step on the scales tho  ::)  :o  :-\  :'(  :-[  :(

Cape Town has tarmac roads (without pot-holes), shops that sell edible food, street lights and Mr Cosmic doesn't need a security guard and driver to go out (in fact he has a hire car!!)  ;D

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 21, 2010, 08:13:42 PM
Cheers Cosmic  8)

Just a bit fed up with dieting now lol and all my clothes are too big!  Picking up some smaller stuff in the sales, smart work stuff will just have to be baggy and worn with a belt lol
I need to bin the stuff that is huge, I reckon I am 4 stone lighter and 3 or 4 sizes smaller than I was at my fattest about 5 years ago!  :-X

6kg buddies it is then - a stone in 2 months, it should be achievable even with restricted exercise.  I will need to be very careful post op!  Looks like no swimming for 6 months post AMIC but can gym after 3 months...cripes... :o
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 21, 2010, 08:49:57 PM
...Long haul should be OK after 6 weeks... apparently!

Clothes being too big is a great problem to have. I've put my size 10's away, was tempted to get rid of them but am keeping them as an incentive! I only have 2 pairs of trousers and one pair of shorts that fit my size 14 butt at the moment. I'd be happy with a decent size 12!

Have you tried doing rice/quinoa/amaranth salads - really nice with blueberries/mango or mushrooms/spinach and a smattering of lentils. Baked stuffed portabello mushrooms (stuffed with veg/ rice/chicken), risottos, baked butternut squash with (a small amount) of goats cheese or brie/bacon. Just a few ideas as a change from green salads. I'm afraid they are a bit veggie orientated. Poor Ele rarely gets a sniff of meat at home!

Lets go for it xx

PS Snowy - keep going on the flexion - hopefully now the staples are out your knee will settle a bit more - the swimming may help the mobilisation and to reduce the swelling so can start to move it more comfortably. xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 21, 2010, 09:26:26 PM
Ooooh diet buddies - I need two case studies for my Level 3 REPS qualification diet and nutrition - have decided to finish my personal training qualification and to hell with the joint problems. Won't stop me training people, so long as I don't take on any aspiring marathon runners there is little I cannot demonstrate or do with them for a while and after all, most trainers stand and watch and shout during sessions! Boxing/pad work is one of my key tools for cardio and that is just fine for Bob and the onions.  ;D

Some delicious suggestions for food there Cosmic, yummy yums. I found the fastest way to shift weight was no carbs at night. Eat them in day and you won't feel hungry at night (if you do, have some protein!!). And boxing/pad work. And writing down everything I ate. That was scary - my trainer used to circle all of my lapses!  :o ;D

I lost 2 stone in 8 weeks, and that was still having a glass of wine at night, and the odd treat. Decent brekkie, balanced lunch, snacks of carrots and things during day with a few nuts, and then no carbs at teatime but lots of fish and veg or chicken etc. Usually managed a curry once a week without disaster. I was never hungry. Trained at home during that time most of the 8 weeks, simple exercises, with 2 sessions a week with Sean.  :D

Then I went mad, trained 5-6 times a week, got to about 15% body fat and killed my knees.  ::)

Not at that body fat now but still fit in the same clothes - just about!  :)

So, is this like Biggest Loser kind of thing now? Can we get Bob over? Bob the trainer not Bob the knee!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 21, 2010, 10:21:49 PM
Heh - Lottie - that sounds very much like my approach to losing weight! I packed on the pounds after my last knee injury (the down side of being very active is the dramatic effect of an activity shutdown) and didn't want to diet to get rid of it, so I started working out 3 hours a day, 7 days a week. I lost 50lb in six weeks but my knees cranked at me for about six months afterwards. I did cut out the really unhealthy stuff, but was eating about 3,000 calories a day just to maintain the exercise levels!

I'm trying hard not to gain too much weight after surgery, but I'm also wary of scaling back food too much when my body needs resources to heal. I think I've put on about 4 pounds or so, which isn't too bad. Hopefully I can trim that off once I start incorporating more cardio exercise into the routine.

Cosmic - that's great news about Mr. Cosmic! Must be a huge relief to have him out of Nigeria, and even better to have him somewhere that you can all visit. Sounds lke you're going to have quite the summer coming up. :)

Vicks - Sorry to hear that Neelie is being so uncooperative. If she hurts more at rest I'd say it's definitely time to ramp up the activities, especially with a long layoff coming up.

Lottie - I did get a very early release to swim. One of the reasons they're normally reluctant to let people swim is because it's open chain (i.e. your feet aren't planted on anything) and hence there's the scope to kick out in ways that might hurt the graft, especially if you're not a confident swimmer. Originally my PT and OS agreed that I could swim as soon as the incisions healed is because I said I'd use a float to keep my legs still, and so I wouldn't be kicking them at all. However when the OS found out that I'm a trained swimmer, he said a gentle flutter kick would be fine. I have good technique and there's no real danger of me flailing my legs and doing something awful. Now I just have to get to the point where I'm able to do a flutter kick!

I won't rehash my self-pitying entry over on my own thread, but I'm not having a good day today at all. Cosmic, how long did it take for that really bad calf pain to settle down? Was there anything in particular that helped? I'm struggling with the same thing right now and it's really wearing me down.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 21, 2010, 11:07:20 PM
I am not going to go mad, because a) I am not too keen on the during and after pain and b) I need to avoid inlaming neelie as per the OS instructions but do need to do some sort of leg strengthening
I am pants swimmer so I doubt I'll ever be cleared back to the pool  ;D

Will just get advice from the physio and can also talk to him about the horrors of post-AMIC rehab! Or do I not want to know as yet (bit like I don't want to know what makes the 'special' operating theatre so special)!

Neelie bitch has been quite welll behaved today, no drugs needed which is a bonus.  My stupid foot and ankle were quite sore and swollen again though -another question for the physio, probably a bit more knowledgeable about such things than the GP!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 21, 2010, 11:33:00 PM
Snowy -

I haven't had time to visit you yet - sorry to hear you're having one of "those" days  :(  :-\

The only nugget I can offer is that all my bad days were followed by a great day. If I remember correctly it was at about day 11 that I finally went to a&e to be checked for DVT as the pain was so intense that I couldn't weightbear, couldn't sleep, couldn't do a SLR or ankle pumps, and I had a big red patch (different to the bruising) on my upper calf.

I did go back onto ibuprofen for a few days (I'd pretty much been off the painkillers from day 6 in order to drive) and massaged with arnica oil - it was excruciatingly tender but the massage helps to move on the blood/ stops it clotting in the tissues (hematoma - not like a DVT). I tried the massage brush (which just left exfoliated to oblivion!) and alternating heat with cold. It was very frustrating as it actually got in the way of pt for a couple of days  :(. The only thing I can say is just try to be patient - there is so much trauma in your tissues it just needs time to heal.... If I recall correctly the worst was over by mid week 3.... it seems an age away but you're already at week 2!!! (and I'm at week 9! 3 more weeks to be out of the first trimester  ;)).

I've been out to collect Cam from girlfriend's house - it turns out she is very squeamish  - she fainted during a chat about injuries :-(( - it was interesting as my "Instructor" training took over - I could see her going and made it over to her as she hit the floor - by which time she was already coming round - got her legs elevated and rather assertively got her to stay put as she was still feeling dizzy and her Mum was telling her to get up..... it was a very strange situation as I realised afterwards that it was someone elses daughter in their home - and I took over! Thankfully Jess's Mum admitted that she was very bad with that kind of thing!

Cam is the same with fainting - I resorted to taking him to hypnotherapy at our GPs, which although wasn't quite the answer it did empower him and gave him ideas for strategies to avoid triggers.....  we won't mention the time I went to hospital with Cam aged 4 for a tonsillectomy...and passed out when he came back from theatre. 10 minutes lying on the floor on oxygen didn't help and they ended up transferring me to a day bed in the same ward as Cameron!!! Tee hee - genetics are fun  ;D....

Is it time for bed yet? Ele's finished making her 5ft model of a zipwire (including pond with fish and a "No fishing" sign!) so I guess it must be......

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 21, 2010, 11:52:55 PM
That's basically the point that I've reached. Calf pain has been present since the bruising came out, but initially it just felt like a very, very bad stiff muscle. Yesterday the PT gave me an extensive massage to try and get the haematoma moving, and I guess it is - it's been absolutely excruciating ever since. Last night I could barely walk, and it kept me awake half the night. I can do my ankle pumps and SLRs but anything that involves taking weight on that leg is agony until it's warmed up.

I'm not unduly concerned about DVT as this is so clearly linked to the bruising (the sore areas match the exact pattern of the bruise, and have moved with it) and I don't have any of the other symptoms, but it's really getting in the way of my exercises - seated extensions in particular are suffering because it's so painful pushing the calf into the floor. It also stopped me kicking while swimming.

I'm sure it will pass, but right now I'm finding it very draining. I suspect the lack of sleep last night didn't help either; that's the first really bad night I've had post-surgery (the oxycodone ensured great sleeps initially) and I think it's left me feeling a little fragile today.

I'm still taking my naproxen, so I guess I'll grit my teeth and just keep working on the arnica massages. Poor J may be put on massage duty, too - she has a really good touch for these kinds of things.

Thanks for the tips - appreciated. :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 22, 2010, 05:28:34 AM
Cosmic you lucky lucky girl South Africa sound's lovely and sunny and warm instead of here where we have rain and wind and not warm at all, it must be a huge relief that you hubby has moved on from Nigeria especially to some place you can all go for a wee holiday, glad you mentioned flying post op cos now I am through the other side of the surgery I will deffo want to go out to my friends place in Spain for a week before returning to work but I wasn't sure about the whole flying thing so if it is ok to fly long haul I should be fine for a wee trip over to spain.
Re the whole diet thing I have done the Atkins diet a couple of times once way back before I got married and had a good weight loss with it then, then again about 5 years ago I also had a good result only problem is I would have had to stick with the whole very low carb thing forever and that was not easy for me I actually got to the stage I would have killed for a piece of toast so maybe the restricting carbs after a certain time would be a better option for me I will give it a try soon when I can get myself motavated at the moment I have put on maybe 5 or 6 pounds over the last wee while but I am still approx 5 stone lighter than at my heaviest [major weight problem not helped by polycystic overies] so not too bothered at the moment just dont want to go back down the slippery slope of weight gain....
Snowy I posted on your thread and I hope your feeling better
Vicky here's hopeing tomorrow brings good news on the surgery front
Lottie excellent news on the personal training qualification I recon you would be an insperation to anyone with you positive attitude..
Take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on July 22, 2010, 11:28:58 AM
gosh that was a lot of reading to do! I miss so much when I sign off of this sucker for the afternoons.

Cosmic I love sophie ellis bextor, when she was popular-ish in the US (5 or 6 years ago) we all hated her dang long legs, sad to hear she hasn't shrunk to dwarf size yet! Unfair! Glad you had fun at the concert. South Africa sounds exciting but I hope you can give the kneetard a tranquilizer for the flight (oh if only there were such thing... let's find a pharmaceutical whiz to make it and get rich off of the "Kneegeeks Kneetard Tranquilizer")

I need to hop on the weight loss train too! It was pretty unfortunate that my knee drama coincided with my quitting smoking so I have a LOT to lose. Calling this "the summer of the tankini" since my flub is not fit for public consumption. Hoping to look like some version of my normal self by the holidays.

So Big Brad kept his promise yesterday and he sure was SMILEY about it (who's surprised? no one? nope me neither.) He basically cranked all of my exercises up just enough for them to be doable but quite unpleasant (all the while he's somewhere behind me saying "pump it up girl!" (me: "shut it GUY!") I was almost vertical on the "total gym" for the sliding knee bends and got such a deep squat that I saw stars again (oops, haven't done that since week 2.) I am definitely feeling the effects of this pumped-up plan. Had to take a motrin 800 last night for the first time in weeks and there was certainly plenty of whining going on. Am feeling pretty stiff and sore today like I've taken a trip back in time. I figure since I only have thru next Friday with big Brad (oh what ever will I do without him! besides REJOICE?) I am going to try to stick with it rather than making him dial it back again. At this point I'm really happy with the strengthening I'm doing, just still worried about the darn FLEXION and of course my poor pat mobility.

It's scheduled to be a gym day so I am going to soldier on despite the 'tard's crankiness today. I was told by the pt assistant that I should just dial back the resistance on the gym bike and see if that helps the pain at the front. I told her I only had it at a level 4 and she said that doesn't matter- if it hurts all I am doing is causing inflammation and that's BAD. So that was a little frustrating. I ride the PT bike at a level 10- apparently it's like "vanity sizing" in clothing... the PT equipment is all set to make you feel like you are tougher than you are. That being said, I wish PT sold pants  :)

good knee/toe/calf vibes to all- have a GREAT day and do your exercises... lol
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 22, 2010, 04:14:56 PM
Grrrr sodding insurance company.  Still refusing to sign off on the op  >:(  Their reasoning being that that the use of the specific membrane is at pre-clinical trial stage and apparently the website only cites case studies. So, for the time being they cannot authorise theimplant on the basis of case studies only .  The OS has quite rightly said that he has provided enough information and fully explained his reasoning in the letter and is not in a position to send any further supporting information at this stage.

I am going to escalate this through HR as it's a corporate policy - huge company, expect 95% of people never claim  >:(  I'd have no issues getting Neelie replaced - we are trying to make her existence happier.  I don't particularly want to do this either, but I'd quite like a pain-free life back after nearly 11 months!

Annoyed and frustarted...grrrrr  >:(

Rant over  ::)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 22, 2010, 06:38:15 PM
Vickster - so sorry to hear that the insurance company is being a pain. I'm keeping my fingers tightly crossed that you'll be able to push this through if you're enough of a squeaky wheel. I hate to ask, but what would your options be if they did say no?

Kris -  good work on the enhanced PT regime! It may hurt but it also means things are progressing, which is good news. :)

Tez - a week in Spain when the knee is up to it sounds like a great idea. I'd love to take J away for a break once I'm better to thank her for everything she's done looking after me, but at the moment it's almost impossible for us to get away for more than a night because of the kitties and their medical issues. If we could find a cat sitter who was comfortable doing the IV fluids, insulin injections and all the rest of it we've talked about going to Harrison Hot Springs for a couple of nights (natural hot springs are the best knee medicine on earth) but I'm just not sure if we'll be able to arrange it or not.

Cosmic - thanks again for the calf tips. Half of feeling better is just knowing that other people went through the same thing and it's not unusual. I'm going to try heat pads today and see if that helps. We have a stock of heat pads in the bathroom - when we went to pick up Jen's marathon registration one of the vendor booths gave us a whole bunch of stick-on heat pads that are designed to soothe period pains. We haven't used them and they look like just the right size and shape to stick on my sore calf!

Happy knee days to all,

K xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 22, 2010, 06:41:25 PM

Typical sodding insurance companies. A lot of my assessment work is for insurers paying out on income protection policies (slightly different I know but still insurance) and whilst there are many people who unfortunately like to see this as a way to avoid work the insurers sometimes send me to people that I staggered by - e.g guy with terminal brain tumour - insurer has evidence he has driven to his in laws so therefore can he return to work as a senior field sales manager? Guy with no legs and half a buttock missing, massive ongoing issues, constant pain  - internet search shows he is active on many forums, can he return to work as an IT analyst..etc etc....

If they don't pay out is your OS of the view that another procedure is worth trying or is that it? How silly they'd fund say...MFX, when in 2 years time you might be back again if it fails!! Or 6 months time!!! Do they not know that ANY cartilage repair has uncertain outcomes anyway????

Oh well - if you get a TKR can you get one for Bob too, he can save it in his sock drawer for 2012.  ::) :P

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 22, 2010, 07:27:13 PM
Vicky oh I feel so angy on your behalf I really want to hit someone possible the daft bugger who makes these decisions.... it is so short sighted of them not to allow this treatment now that your O.S has stated this will be the best thing for your condition its crazy to think the insurance company would pass you to have all the other probably more expensive treatments but wont allow this just because the info about it is not what they are looking for. Get your HR department involved and lets hope the insurance co will start seeing sense... sorry just a wee rant on Vickys behalf....
Snowy a few days away with Jen sounds really nice I hope you can ge someone to take care of the kittys so that you can get away
hot springs sound lovely...
Lottie that sounds like a pretty difficult job it must be heartbreaking dealing with some of these cases
Cosmic just read on line about the giant whale who landed on a couples boat in South Africa I think it said they was just off Cape Town, it caused mega damage but just by luck the couple, survived so now you have to promise if you go sailing while out there and you see a whale get out of its way asap
Kris so Evil Brad can smile it sounds like he gets a kick out of causing you pain just make sure its good pain and not any of that nasty bad pain that will cause you more problems at the end of the day....have fun at the gym..
Take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 22, 2010, 08:14:32 PM
Thanks guys  :D

I have spoken to HR, they are going to talk to the Account Manager at the insurance company is part of a very BIG organisation and the health insurance provider account is up for review...hmm, maybe some leverage there even though they are not citing cost as a reason  ;)

I love the way the dippy paper-pushing desk monkey has looked at the manufaturer's website...almost certainly out of date them directly and ask for data  >:(  Why should I and indeed the OS have to justify - he has done his bit and I am fed up dealing with this crap! 

There is another membrane manufacturer - there seems to be more information and links about this one, so perhaps more (convincing) data.  Now I have no idea if it is viable, if the OS has ever used etc, I assume he has chosen the one for a clinical reason.  I have emailed the OS secretary about it nevertheless. Maybe I need to find another OS who uses this membrane if the insurers are happier with that...not ideal  >:(

In terms of other options - well, microfracture, not up for that, I already have tender fibrocartilage and if it fails, my subsequent options are limited.  OATS, my OS has never discussed this, again, I am unwilling to inflict damage elsewhere in my knee if there is another option, MACI - well that uses the same type of membrane, is 2 ops, plus the undoubtedly expensive cell cultivation (it's done in Denmark where a pint of beer costs 6 quid lol) - can't see them going for that

Maybe I can pay for the membrane myself if they cover the surgery, appointments and rehab ... last resort, why the hell should I?

Or I just leave it, have physio, take loads of NSAIDs and end up with gastric issues, stop all exercise and put on loads of weight and end up even more miserable  >:(

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 22, 2010, 08:29:15 PM

I wonder if they would cover Cartifill - similar procedure but a collagen paste rather than the membrane. Shetty has some outcome data, although I am not sure it is any more extensive than the AMIC data. There is also work done using it outside of the UK by Professor Kim in conjunction with Shetty. Ideal for focal and contained lesions. Could be worth asking. I suspect that even if you paid for the membrane they'd argue they won't fund the rest of the process as the whole thing is what they disagree with rather than the membrane. Bloody ridiculous....

How frustrating.  ??? :-\

Tez - sounds like you're doing well, keep smiling and I hope the laundry fairy might visit soon and sort out the washing piles without any input...I would like an ironing fairy too!  ;D

Kris - sounds like Big Brad has a diploma in torture....poor kneetard, it won't be happy but its all for the greater good!! Now I sound like Big Brad!!! ::)

Cosmic - Bob went birthday shopping today as a little bird has told me there is a birthday coming up soon.... :P 8)

Out of interest regarding the personal training......I was reading recently about virtual training. Kind of like a cross between following a DVD program like the Biggest Loser or something and just seeing yourself through the process and full on face to face training with a trainer. it would work by providing initial assessment, recommendations and goals and demonstrating as required the program you'd be setting, advising on diet and nutrition and then setting up a web based program the client followed and giving them regular net or telephone feedback and support. The actual way it runs is open to debate, but do you think people would go for it? It would ty and bridge a gap and my trainer and I have been chatting about it. Personally I think there is little better than a face to face person kicking your butt, but sometimes this isn't practical or suitable or is there a way to bring personal training to a wider audience....

Lottie xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 23, 2010, 02:17:16 PM
For the insurance, HR asked me to summarise the OS letter and put the 4 options in order of my preference.  The first 3 cartilage repair techniques seem to have pretty much the same work and rehab impact, so they are equal from a business point of view

For me...
1) AMIC, 1 operation and the OS preference (which ultimately has to be the key driver, when none are especially appealing or one is better than the others)
2) MACI, because same sorts of outcome as AMIC, but the need for 2 ops is off-putting (and less good from a business POV, it's got to be a week off work after the first scope)
3) OATS - but unwilling to damage another part of my knee for the damaged bit.  Not very aware of the procedure as never discussed it with the OS.  If this ends up being the only option, would need to talk to him again in depth to understand the realities of it properly
4) simple microfracture...may as well not be on the list as I can't see how I will be any better off with just new fibrocartilage and it seems highly unreliable in terms of positive outcome (I guess the fact that my body does produce FC must help, but neelie doesn't like it)!  6 weeks NWB will be an utter sod too if that is the OS protocol!  That said I walked around on Neelie from day 1 and FC developed

Not heard anything more about the other membrane manufacturer from the OS sec, they do say they have 5 years of data.  Their website also has some really gruesome surgery video which I perhaps shouldn't have looked at!  :o

And now I wait a bit more...  ::)

All the knees and onions looking forward to the weekend?  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on July 23, 2010, 04:40:37 PM
Vicky I am soooo sorry to hear of your continued headaches. Sounds like you've really done your homework- fingers crossed that you get it all sorted really soon.

Hope everyone is having an uneventful knee/onion day. Another stormy day here so the kneetard is not on his best behavior. To be fair I had a good bit of pain yesterday and did bike and treadmill anyway, so I might just be paying the piper. It sounds like big brad may have overscheduled himself today so I might get a little break from torture... ha yeah right!

Tomorrow I head up to my dear alma mater to go on a drinking bender with some girlfriends- much needed after a crazy week of stupid knee and work drama. (The salaried staff were informed yesterday by instant message that we aren't getting raises, but we should still attend our performance reviews so that we can be "thanked in person for our hard work.")

I may have had a clever response that used words I learned doing heel-slides and ankle pumps

Yes, I still believe that beer solves everything. No interventions please  :)

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on July 23, 2010, 07:44:37 PM
Vicks - birthday relatives have left and I'm being nagged by hungry youths to go find food .... just to say it's a bugger about your insurance - heartfelt hugs - perhaps if we all combine forces we can come up with something or someone who can help....

Thanks for all the birthday wishes - celebrating the 21st anniversary of my 21st ;-)
I was spoilt rotten when Tashi brought me a freshly killed fledgling in the forest  ::)  :'(  - I did a fab 8 miler, then have had friends and relatives drop by all day. Perfect :-).... especially the rude card from Lottie LoL!!!

Oh yeah - and I discovered that I definitely can't run yet  :o  :o!


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 23, 2010, 07:52:08 PM
Cosmic - glad the card arrived!! Got you a little something too, will wait til next week!!


Oh and the running has nothing to do with the ACLr. Its. Your. Age.  :P ::) :o ;D

Hugs xxxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 23, 2010, 09:09:22 PM
Cosmic A big HAPPY BIRTHDAY from all your fans up in Scotland I hope you have had a spendid day with lots of fun and that the family have spoilt you today.
Vicky I know how frustrated you are with all this insurance co stuff but with your company's HR dept on your side and fighting for you I hope things can be resolved soon I just wish there was something I could do to help move things in the right direction..
Lottie I hope the onions are still greatfull for their reprieve and behaving and Bob is following suit in case you turn the attension onto him.
Kris sounds like you have a good weekend planned but by the sound of what is going on at work you will need to get out and have fun to take your mind off all things work related.
Take care and have a good weekend  Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: ouch09 on July 24, 2010, 12:13:13 AM

Happy (belated) birthday !

Unlike Lottie, I won't make any rude jokes about you age, since I'm older than you  ;)

Walking 8 miles now, eh ? Not in the hills, by any chance ?  ;D


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: zaiemk on July 25, 2010, 01:19:56 PM
After a few weeks days away from Cosmics cafe, its like I hav elost touch with the world - theres so much going on...

Cosmic - Very belated Happy Birthday young lady.  The running will come back - since my original injury I have struggled to run across the road to avoid getting run over. :)

Vickster - I am bummed out for you - just watch out for any disclaimer if the insurance co does sign off conditionally.  Hopefully HR will box them off.  You and your OS shoiuldnt have to provide all the necessary info for the claims handler, but it may be worth trying to get hold off any additional info on the procedure for the lazy @#!£er.  Good luck

Lottie - if you are talking about a more affordable solution to personal trainers, I think if you can work out the practicalities of the initial assessment, in the current economic climate it may be a good alternative.  I do know that the public gym I attend have a contracted Personal Trainer who offers various packages, inc the one you have just mentioned, but without the web based approach.  It allows for a 'distance' personal training approach, especially for those who dont want (or need) to join a gym to exercise.

Kris - I think that the club of people who think that beer solves all problems will continue to grow - you may want to discuss the likelihood of alcohol based inducements for staff in your next performance review, after you've exhausted your expletives.

Take care all
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 26, 2010, 04:45:59 AM
Cosmic - I had a dream last night that I met you and the little Cosmics. Hopefully an omen for a KG get-together one day in the future!

Vickster - I'm really sorry you're still having insurance hassles. Keeping my fingers very tightly crossed that whatever you hear next is finally some good news.

Lottie - I really like the virtual personal trainer idea. I think it would tap into a whole new audience and would give you the benefit of a lot more flexibility with clients' schedules. Something that's also really popular here (not sure if it is in the UK - certainly not when I left but that was almost 6 years ago) is outdoor personal training - every park and beach seems to have a little cadre of clients, trainers, and even whole exercise classes. That always struck me as really smart; no overheads, and a lovely outdoor workout space. Perhaps not the best in the winter, however.

Kris - hopefully your employers have braced themselves for some fine language in response to that particular corporate memo! Hope the bender helped take a bit of the sting out.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on July 26, 2010, 10:38:47 AM
happy Monday to all! Hope your weekends were great. I was feeling much better about work drama til I landed back here in the office. My stomach is in my throat again. Thankfully I have KG to keep me company today *and to prevent me from working too hard, as silent protest* My weekend bender was as nuts as promised. I got absolutely destroyed by mosquitoes and didn't notice til yesterday when I sobered up! Going to try to get through the day without putting my feet up on my desk and scratching like a maniac...

Lottie your trainer idea is GREAT! I think one of the hardest things about working with a trainer is the embarrassment factor- even when I start a new workout routine by myself, I am self-conscious about doing things wrong, looking stupid. being a big sweaty pig, etc. Plus for you, scheduling-wise, it would be great!

Cosmic I hope your birthday was ultra-festive!

Tez/Snowy glad to see your new acls are still intact and trying to behave  :)

zaiem, if we had all been spoken to over beers last week I think the news would have been far better received. It's early so there aren't many people in the office yet besides me. If I had to guess I'd say we're all still giving the boss the silent treatment. They better replace the water cooler with something STRONGER.

vicky hope there's good insurance news on the horizon... fingers and toes crossed!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 26, 2010, 08:59:54 PM
Thanks for all the good luck wishes folks  ;D 

Still no news however...the account manager has passed it to medical management, from whence it came!  Hopefully, someone who actually gives a s*** is now looking into it now and spends more than 2 minutes looking at the membrane manufacturer's website  ::)

Knee is troublesome and my stupid ankle is still very swollen and tender.  The leg seems to really suffer being stuck at a desk at work - need to figure out how to elevate it so I can still reach my keyboard!  Still swimming, around 2k a week (across 3 swims) I think, that's 10 minutes for Snowy but my lack of style makes it like swimming the channel lol

I have tried a little cardio in the gym - I did a gentle 1k @ 5 minute row - felt very easy fitness wise, but the knee didn't like the bending...must be my raggedy kneecap - also sore when I try to pull my leg to my chest bending the knee.  Have also done some static cycling but again, fairly uncomfortable, even just for 12 minutes (2 miles, level 3 or 4, ~75rpm).  The rest thing really hasn't helped as far as I can tell, it's been ~10 weeks, the knee is stiffer and sorer than before :(

I see the physio on the 2nd, hopefully he can shed some light on what on earth Neelie is such a mood about, other than just those raging teenage hormones!  ???

Hope all the ACLs out there are healing nicely (I feel rather left out with just my knackered cartilage and intact ligaments) and the Lottie onions are cheery :D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on July 27, 2010, 11:25:30 PM
Hi gals. I've popped by the musketeers' and just wanted to see if there was Vicky news (NONE? bummer!)

Vicky- I kept my leg propped up next to me on an extra chair (sort of off at a diagonal toward the corner of my desk) every day for 6 months between my injury and surgery. It might have given me one flat butt cheek but it definitely helped with the pain and swelling.

Sorry you're stiff and sore- it must be that time of the month for Neelie. It's frustrating when there's no rhyme or reason. Sometimes exercise helps, sometimes it hurts, gahh! (As someone with intact ligaments I feel you on the busted cartilage!) Hope the physio has some suggestions.

Well my last Monday at PT went well. Big Brad will be so sad to see me go I think... he was in a really good mood (almost scary how jovial he was.) Of course he got to do some major patella mobes, so that probably helped. Fortunately, I thought to ask him about my gym routine because I hadn't yet- turns out leg extensions are a big, total, absolute no-no (they're for "people with normal knees," says he) and that I'll be stuck doing SLRs with ankle weights forever to keep undue stress off of my messed up kneecap. Also I have to switch my leg presses from 2 legs all the time to 2 legs down, 1 leg up. I very easily could have finished PT and gone on my merry way... how stupid would I have felt when my knee was grinding again because of this stuff?

In other news, I had my performance review this afternoon... it turned out a lot better than I expected. I was able to voice my laundry list of grievances (using only two profanities) and got lots of great feedback. Since tomorrow is my boss' last day before he transfers to our German office, it's a bit too little too late- but at least he's not leaving with the hostility/drama intact. Also instead of no raise I got a puny 3% one, which is definitely going straight into the work- and knee-related beer fund... yes, Kay, I'm having one right this instant ;) They tried to make me go to rehab, I said NO! NO! NO!

happy knees and onions to all and to all a good night
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 27, 2010, 11:40:35 PM
Kris 3% rise yipeeeee ok its not a fortune but its better than a kick up the bum and at least you got to tell your soon to be German boss what you thought before he left :P So is that the end of the relationship with Big Evil Brad?? well at least he gave you some do and donts before he went on his merry way..
Take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 28, 2010, 07:06:44 AM
Kris - things like that make me think I should look into corporate librarianship. In the public sector we consider 3% a really good raise.  :-\ Congrats on the parting of the ways with Big Brad...I remember having a similar conversation about leg presses and leg extensions with my PT during my prehab phase. I was allowed to do extensions but only at zero weight, no resistance at all. Same rationale.

Vickster - waiting on tenterhooks for news...fingers crossed they don't keep you hanging on much longer. I found rowing brutal on the knees, which saddened me - when I switched to the rowing machine I thought of it as a not-so-intense knee exercise, but it soon proved me wrong. For the desk, I experimented with a few different propping techniques before settling on two stacked boxes of photocopier paper topped with a blanket. I was able to push those to the back of the desk and sit in an almost normal position with my leg propped up. At home right now I'm using Jen's exercise ball for the same thing, which isn't quite as stable but can be very easily moved to adjust my position for comfort.

I got one bit of good news today - because my extended health insurance only refunds out-of-pocket expenses at 80%, I'd miscalculated the amount I've already spent on PT this year. In fact I have about $200 left to claim, which means that I'll at least get the first three post-surgery sessions refunded. After this Thursday, unfortunately, I'm on my own - but at least that's $200 that I wasn't expecting to get back. I wonder if my PT would consider billing as a chiropractor or acupuncturist instead? Between the two I have $1000 of unclaimed services for this year. We're still debating additional income streams to fund my rehab - perhaps I should use my time off work to write another book. Gah...I guess at least I'm getting first class treatment thanks to private PT, but I do wish it was covered under MSP.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 28, 2010, 08:24:25 AM
Good morning cafe members!!

I've been a bit remiss with cafe posting too, good to see some activity going on! Can I have a large skinny capuccino with one shot and a breakfast loaf thingy please to take out?

Vicks I hope the insurers finally make up their mind today. At least then you can make a plan whichever way they decide. I can't row any longer; I used to row quite a lot as I found it REALLY worked me hard although I hated it, but it just HURTS way to much now. When you think thats its a continual leg press action at speed with resistance it perhaps isn't that surprising! I think elevating the knee at work could be a plan, especially if you tend to sit at your desk with knees bent or tucked behind you. That isn't great. As an addition - I got chatting to a lady at the gym yesterday who had a scope on her knee 15 months ago - its still not settled down although an MRI shows nothing more sinister thanmild wear and tear (she had a meniscus trim and wash out) and her OS says some knees take 2 YEARS to get happy again!! It just made me think - perhaps Neelie just needs 2 years of doing nothing!!  :P ::) :o

Kris - I think Big Brad has a soft spot for you.  :P  I too have to avoid leg extensions, although my PT has got me up to managing very short arc extension action over a towel to start with and now with my leg over the foam roller. But the leg extension machine - NOOOOOOOOO. Ditto leg press, I always do both legs then singles to make sure I am working the worse knee equally hard (wel not that hard really as I have pathetic little legs....but they are getting there...). Do you think things are improving now after the op? Anf good news on the pay rise - every little helps as Tesco say over here.

Snowy - good news on the extra funding - perhaps just get a super supply of smoothies? I saw that flex is still being a pain in returning, I can imagine you're getting frustrated now.  :-\  It will come, it is clearly being a stubborn knee this time around but it has had a lot of work done to it.

Its another Cosmic and Bob adventure tomorrow so long as she is free and her guests have gone. I have just seen some Facebook snaps of them - COSMIC why did I not come and visit whilst they were still there??!! FIT AS!!!!!!!! The forecast is sunny so i am hoping for lunch al fresco and some onion dipping. The onions have been extremely well behaved over the past two weeks. They had a twinge at the gym yesterday but seem to settle quickly. The knees have been OK, relatively calm despite me doing some major league gym sessions this week and last. I am religiously icing and keeping on top of stretches. They will detreiorate next week in line with my hormones; for some reason I get 5 days of wasps under the knecaps right around that special time...

Tez, your fb pics indicate a tidy looking knee. A walk along Largs too - I went to Largs once after a work visit up there. I had about 6 hours to kill before a flight home and a hire car so i drove along that coastline. It was gorgeous.  8)

Right then it is breakfast time in Lottie world then off to order us a new sofa. I need some ideas to stop the cats shredding the corner - do they sell proper covers for the corner/plastic trim?!

Happy knees and onions to all

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 28, 2010, 08:28:55 AM
Kris - well done on the payrise, better than a poke in the eye with a blunt spoon!

Snowy - good news there are a few more dollars in the kitty for physio. IF I need it, my insurance year restarts on 1st September, so I'll have plenty to cover post op physio.  I have enough this year for 3 more sessions, but don't think I'll need more beyond the one on Monday

Still no news from my insurers  ::) ...HR Director back from leave today so maybe she'll have more sway than her exec

I have been fretting about what I'll do if they refuse (I am not immensely optimistic right now), the knee really is very sore.  Reacted badly again to the 12 minute low resistance cycle on Monday.  I had yesterday off exercise as I wasn't feeling too well all day  :(  Will swim this evening.  Knee was bad yesterday, soooo stiff and very tight and stabby behind my knee and my ankle was swollen and achy too (even [or because of?] wearing the support as advised by GP).

I have found a foot rest for under the desk, just need to remember to use it!  As Lottie says, I sit with my knees bent and ankles crossed - awful, just don't really notice I am doing it!  I don't think the paper boxes or chair plan will work with how the desk is designed.

Lottie & Cosmic - have fun tomorrow!  I've got some dull internal meeting all afternoon, should kill Neelie good and proper having to sit listening to my colleagues zzzzzz  and then the summer party, might stay if not just for free nosh  ;D

Maybe I should get myself put down  ::)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on July 28, 2010, 12:02:38 PM
Oh no, Vicky, don't off yourself! :-[ And stop crossing your ankles, it hurts me just to read it!! I hope Neelie doesn't "kneed" 2 years to get straight and I hope the kneetard doesn't either... good lord that's a long time...

Snowy, congrats on "finding" the $200 for PT... the best kind of PT is the already-paid-for kind thankyouverymuch. I actually have 2 more sessions with Big Brad: today and Friday. I am sure he's already ordered a giant going-away cake for me... or maybe just a huge SNEER.... yes, that's way more likely.

Going to try to hit the gym today after PT, since I skipped yesterday (too tired after waiting around for hours for the soon-to-be-German!) I will be missing his going-away this afternoon since I'll be on my hot date with Big Brad. Lesser of two evils indeed.

Hope everyone (and their creaky parts) has a great day
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 28, 2010, 12:11:10 PM
Cosmic is taking me here tomorrow:

Apparently they have a cafe...... :P :o 8)

Fear the inch gain by Friday!!!! Bring on the chips for dinner too!!! Fish n chips by the sea with Stumpy and Bob in his knotted hankie!!

Vicks - don't top yourself, bit drastic. And DON'T cross your ankles, no wonder they are swollen if the knee is not happy!!! Just get a foot elevator thingy, HR should provide it for you under the DDA.  ;)

Kris - tell Big Brad you want a cake ordered from Chococo up above.

Gym for me too later, been working hard the past two weeks, today is upper body and core. Yesterday was kill yourself on the cross trainer and balance.

Tomorrow is........CHOC and Cosmic and CHIPs!!! The three Cs...

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 28, 2010, 01:19:22 PM
It's tough with the ankles, most of the time I don't even realise I am doing it, just a natural way for me to sit at my desk!  I have a foot rest - just need to remember to use it!  I can't do anything to keep neelie straighter and higher as my legs are too long, there is a plank at the back of the desk and I can't reach the keyboard even with my monkey arms lol!

HR director reckons I'll be lucky to have an answer from the insurers this week...spiffing!  ::)

2 years is indeed a long time, been nearly 11 months since injury and six since the scope!  The lack of improvement recently (and even worsening) certainly makes me think not doing anything is not an option longer term...just what those options are if the insurers refuse to play ball  >:(

Just had a baked potato with meatball marinara and a bit of cheese and chili sauce...mmmm...meat, carbs and fat!   :P ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 28, 2010, 03:30:01 PM
Good afternoon I hope everyone is ok
Vicky your lunch choice has made me hungry sound delicious ;) ...I know how frustrated you must feel waiting to hear from the insurance co it seems to be going on forever I hope you get some news soon..I hope the physio can help with Neelie and your ankle. I never thought about how you sit at a desk could have an impact on your knees but now I'm thinking about it it must be pretty hard to keep it bent for any length of time, I thought I had it bad with standing all day but I'm now thinking its probably slightly better for your knee.
Lottie and Cosmic I hope you have a good day out tomorrow choc and cake and fish and chips sounds like you 2 are going all out to enjoy your day especially adding in a lovely walk by the sea, again photos and details will be expected afterwards ;D
Snowy good news on the extra pt funding every little bit helps towards the expense.
Kris have loads of fun with Big Bad Brad It sounds like he has your best interests at heart, just finds it hard to show how much he cares ::)
Happy Knee days to all Tez

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 30, 2010, 05:07:52 PM
Well I have heard back from the insurers...

They definitely will not cover AMIC, just too little data on the membrane (they are fine with the microfracture bit, great  ::))
They will cover OATS/mosaicplasty with a bit more info from my OS as to why this delightful op which involves butchering neelie further  ::)
They will potentially support my entry into an ACI/MACI trial (ACTIVE only one running)...woopie do, as not done by my OS and would involve 2 operations, travelling to Stanmore for them which isn't ideal and would involve lots of follow up at Stanmore presumably, which is even less ideal!  ::)

Hmmm, apologies for my sarcasm, not really the outcome I was hoping for, but not wholly unexpected  :(

Will need to discuss with the OS - really not sure what to do - I think you can try ACI/MACI after OATS (unlike after mfx) but that won't help the donor site (which as Lottie says develops fibrocartilage, keen on which the teenage neelie isn't)!  ???

On the positive side, neelie has been quite calm for the last couple of days...I am just finishing off at work and then to the gym and pool...might try some boxing  >:(

Hope all the knees and onions of the world are glad it's the weekend  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on July 30, 2010, 05:39:20 PM
Hi all frequenters of Cosmic's cafe...
Vicky so sorry the insurance co wont cover Amic that sucks big time maybe its time to start thinking of some fundraising ideas after all ;)
So I guess its back to the drawing board now, will this mean a change to your O.S if your guy dosen't do OATS, if thats the road you decide to go down!!
Big decisions for you to make I think its time to get as much info about all the other options you have.
Please try not to get too down about this as there must be other options its just a matter of finding whats best for Neelie.
Take care Tez xxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 30, 2010, 06:04:34 PM
Just wrote a long reply that vanished.

**** it.

Bad news on the insurance. Perhaps try a steroid shot if Neelie is calm? can't hurt? less invasive and might reduce the swelling....

Bad news here is that one of my best friend's Mums has terminal cancer. Gutted. For her and for my friend. Another friend has had her hsband diagnosed with Parkinsons at the age of 34. Gutted for them too, they got married just before us last year.

So - carpe diem. This weekend we're seeing a puppy. Next year we're moving to the seaside.  8) I don't want to die and wish I had done things I can do.

Lets hope this one posts. Ginger beer time. Its past 6pm

OH and those on facebook will have seen the EmBobOnionsCosmic day out - what a great day was had by all. And here is Cosmic stuffing her face.  ;)

Hugs to all xxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 30, 2010, 09:08:57 PM
Apologies for my grumpy toys out of pram post earlier  :-[

Long stressful day at work - I had a Lottie moment when I managed to somehow delete 3 slides in a proposal I was writing (and save without realising) which had taken me at least an hour to do and had to re-do, they were better first time round  ::)  I am also sleep deprived right now, as a moody Cancerian I don't cope too well with tiredness  :-\

Anyhooo, this is basically all very frustrating, having private healthcare, I don't think I expected to have to battle to get the most approporiate treatment for my knee.  My OS does do OATS, he has considered it, was in his letter.  According to the insurance, I am eligible due to my long standing knee problem (ok, not as long as some of course, but it has been 11 months) and the fact that the scope didn't solve the problem.  But, they still need justification from the OS...why if I am eligible and it is one of the options put forward by the surgeon?  ???

I went to the gym (left the office too late to swim too, having spent an extra hour redoing the lost slides) - I needed to sweat  ;D so I did 10 minutes on the stepper, weights, 10 minutes on the XT and 10 minutes on the bike...the stepper was ok, muscles just felt a bit twingy, weights were dull as ever  ;), the XT felt odd but ok, but the bike was most painful for neelie even though only level 3-4, still no fluidity and a catchy kneecap. 

Feels ok now, home and have stuffed my face, even though I have gained one of those lost kilos over the last couple of weeks  :'(   Cosmic, are you still on for the now renamed 7kg Club? After the trip to choccy heaven with Lottie yesterday, you may be eligible  8)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 30, 2010, 09:36:48 PM
Ack. I'm so sorry to hear the bad news - I hope the insurance approvals person gets dunked in a bucket of week-old mackerel. And then beaten with Lottie's haddock, if she still has it handy.

Is OATS going to be your most likely route forward, or do you need time to think about it now that AMIC is off the table?

Some nights you just need to treat yourself. Dieting can wait for tomorrow. ;)

Lottie - so sorry about your influx of bad news, but glad that you're taking steps to make some positive things happen. After going from a rather miserable existence in the UK - living somewhere I hated, in a relationship that wasn't going anywhere, with a job that bored me rigid - to the thoroughly awesome life I have here, I'm a firm believer in throwing caution to the winds and charging off in pursuit of your dreams.

I'm so glad you guys had a good day out - looks like a wonderful time was had by all. :)

I'll post a regular tediously detailed daily update over on my thread in a bit, but suffice to say that I'm back in the gym and have been reunited with my old pal the leg press machine. Ouch says Frankenknee...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 30, 2010, 10:41:41 PM
Well , it looks like OATS (if the insurance are happy for my knee to be improved with spare bits from another bit of neelie  ;D ), mfx or nothing. 

MACI isn't appealing (or guranteed enough) enough to even consider the undoubted aggro of being involved in a 2 (or 3) op trial the other side of London (with up to 10 years follow up  :o ).  I am single, live alone, no one to drive me around easily for starters.  The current hospital is a 5 minute drive/bus ride from home and 20 minutes or so from work!  The practicalities make it a no brainer tbh.  I can't take half a day off work for a 30 minute physio session or 10 minute follow up appointment for the next 10 years!

I need to talk to the OS and get his view on OATS/mosaicplasty - although he mentions it as an option, we have never actually discussed it as a real choice :)  The one advantage is it appears to be an option for kneecaps, mine is not great so I don't know if he could patch it up while in there - bogof fix  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on July 31, 2010, 06:11:08 AM
Good for you for not letting the bastards get you down, and starting to think about next steps already. I think it would have taken me a couple of days just to stop swearing at the insurance company.

It's also a timely reminder for the rest of us about the fallibility of private medical care. When I was involved in my protracted battle with MSP to try and get my ACLr wait time down from 2 years to something more reasonable, I would have given my eye teeth for some kind of private health coverage. But there are no guarantees that it will be a quick fix either; sometimes it just throws up a different set of obstacles.

Will keep my fingers very tightly crossed that OATS/mosaicplasty is a reasonable option for addressing Neelie's woes.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 31, 2010, 10:08:53 AM
Cheers Snowy

I guess it's just my pragmatic side.  They have now said no twice and it's not like AMIC is going to fix Neelie just hopefully help.  If it wasd a guaranteed fix, then yes I would of course be more pis**d off.  I'll see the OS again, not least as the insurance will have to pay for it lol and I see the physio on Monday (not seen for 3 months, so he will have an objective view on neelie's progress or lack of) and then make a decison (help not my strong point right now lol)

Happy weekend to all those fixed, waiting to be fixed and meditating knees and onions
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on July 31, 2010, 11:46:12 AM
One thing I would just say - there is no rush. Frustrating as it is to have a knee thats below par (and I have two!!) new advances are coming out all of the time. Plus fixing cartilage defects is very much a trade off between possible gains and possible risks. OATS may well be an option, chat it through with him - it *can* be done on the patella but that creates a larger open procedure as they need to flip the patella over and the risk of scarring under the patella becomes high. Mr Shetty discussed it with me - hence why I am waiting til he can do cartifill via scope or else look at the direct stem cell injection work. Mr S also said the learning point of all surgical choices in these cases is to take time - sometimes recovery happens spontaneously and the risk of making the wrong choice outweighs the benefits. Mr S is quite unusual for a chopper!!  ;D ::)

I would still be considering a steroid shot to try and get this swelling and inflammation down. If that got you 3 months of reduced inflammation and better function it buys you time to explore your options with a clearer head. OK it might do nothing, but it might just bring symptoms under control and allow more exploration..... :D

Bummer all round really cartilage defects.... :-\ :'(

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on July 31, 2010, 01:47:44 PM
I know what you are saying but from a work point of view, if I am going to have an op that is going to mean 6 weeks off work and 3 months no travel, I need to do it this year if at all possible.  I have a new role that I am determined to make a go of (I have had an utterly awful year career wise thanks to all the knee nonsense and the distraction it has brought with it).  Big new account, going to be very full on next year, with EU and more global travel necessary.  I know health comes first but my work have been understanding thus far, it is really time for me to knuckle down (and I'd quite like to be considered for some sort of financial reward next year). 

I am not keen on steroid shots, I have heard nothing particularly positive.  The swelling isn't out of control and any severe pain isn't unmanageable or that frequent.  More stiffness, achiness and twinges if I catch the lateral side or kneecap wrong.  Three months isn't going to make any difference in terms of the options available - anything that is new now is a minimum of 5 years off being readily available and funded either privately or on the NHS.  I am not getting involved in trials. It has been 6 months since the scope and I am no better off than I was about 8 weeks post scope  ::)     It is hard, I have one defect that causes me the grief, it has been 11 months since injury and I am very near to the enough is enough phase, I don't feel I am rushing - I first discussed the possibility of more surgery 10 weeks go when I started resting the knee more! 

Your issues are very different to mine and you are certainly right to wait for new options that might better suit you :)  I just want a more normal knee come January so I can get on with my life and career again :)

Thanks for all your advice as ever :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 01, 2010, 09:04:57 PM
Just checking into the cafe on Cosmic's behalf...

She is at Bestival (or something like that) and has spent the weekend in a giant tent watching Madness, Human League and Marc Almond amongst others!

Cosmic - living proof that ACLr rehab is best done al fresco!!  8) :D

Lottie xx

PS We decided YES on the dog......
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on August 01, 2010, 09:49:59 PM
Yay - I'm so excited and happy for you! When do you get to bring him home? Any final decisions on a name yet?
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on August 01, 2010, 10:03:05 PM
Emma he is totally amazing what a lovely wee face [the dog i'm talking about!!!! not that i'm saying Ritchard dosent have a lovely face lol] I hope your prepared for a few sleepless night some major damage and lots of love and licks and wagging tails.
I dont like my home much without a dog, its so nice to come home to someone who is always happy to see you and gives you a big welcome. So congratulations and I'm sure there will be some days when you will say to yourself why did I do it, but they will be come less as the pup gets older and you'll realise iwhat a wonderful thing having a dog is....
Any ideas on the name yet????
Take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on August 02, 2010, 10:48:31 AM
Just checking in after a weekend away from the geeks... yes, I was stewing because of the big Brad phone call of DOOM on Friday. Still haven't called the office back- will do so this morning. Going to have to tell them that 2 more weeks isn't possible because my insurance is due to run out at the end of this week, and I really need to get on with my LIFE at this point. Hanging out with elderly TKR patients 3 times a week is starting to do bad things to my psyche. We'll see how that goes.

Vickster, I am so sorry to see you having a rough go of things. I wish private insurance made everything easier, but they've always got hoops set up too. I agree that steroid shots probably aren't the answer, and the more I read about the long term effects of steroid shots on tendons, I wish I hadn't been talked into the 2 I had either. I hope you can get some good advice and insight when you go see the OS.

Lottie the pupster is the CUTEST! My heart and prayers go out to you after your rash of bad news. Exciting to hear you guys are getting the ball moving on your relocation. We are strongly considering one as well, but still spinning the wheels a bit.

Hope everyone is less frustrated and having a good Monday in their joints and lives as a whole.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 02, 2010, 03:29:18 PM

Hope the knees are behaving this afternoon.....

Anybody got any thoughts on allergies? I get bad hay fever and this year I had a Kenalog (steroid) shot for it in June. I used to have them every year but stopped aslong term they aren't a great plan. This year I couldn't face hay fever and joint pains though. Anyway, I have had a shocking reaction to the two pup visits this weekend. I hoped it was just a bit of hay fever breaking through the first time but I have been suffering badly. Last night I fussed Boris the cat a bit and the reaction went bonkers again and today I woke up still suffering but not as bad, but this morning went to see a client with a dog and within 5 minutes of being in the same room I was sneezing, my face has come up in lumps, my eyes are red, swollen and itchy and my arms and legs are itching. WTF. Now, the Kenalog should still be active in me - but am I experiencing a totally new allergy or a rebound effect as the kenalog wears off or am I allergic to bloody dogs all of a sudden??? I have to say I am extremely allergic when I have a reaction - my hay fever is often off the scale and I am worried this is a similar reaction that is too strong for the waning Kenalog to cope with. Was not having any problems til the dog visit at the weekend.

Great. We've got a hairy, shedding dog arriving in 3 weeks and I can't breath.  :-\

Happy days....

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 02, 2010, 04:04:29 PM
Oh dear, have you had an allergic reaction to dogs before?  Have you owned a long haired hound previously?  I know allergies to mog hair are really common, do you have the shots to keep this at bay too or just hayfever?  I would think given it has cooled down now, the pollen count must be lower, unless there is something very specific that you are reacting to that is currently in bloom (for example, I have a friend who is allergic to nothing except Lime)

Although I am the least allergic person around, you have my sympathies, hayfever is miserable :(

Neelie says hi...she is to be gently exercised as much as she can take on the advice of the physio before she is excised (or should that be exorcised) by the OS  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 02, 2010, 04:39:58 PM
I've never been allergic to the mogs in the slightest - to the degree that Lottie-mog sleeps on the bed and always has done and I can deal with them next to me with no effects. I haven't ever really struggled with dog fur, but I haven't ever spent anytime with Golden Retrievers and a quick internet search suggests they are "non oily" and if you're going to be allergic, then they may be the type of dog you're allergic to. I was fine with Cosmic's Tibetan terrier last week, and have had friends with assorted other mutts that have been equally fine. The reaction to Boris last night was almost like my system was in chaos after the dog visit and then some more fur sent it into free fall - same with the dog this morning...... :-\

This reaction was been way more severe than hay fever too, my breathing has been bad and everything.  :'(

Fecking hell, can see us getting chickens at this rate not a canine...

Work Neelie hard, When u seeing OS again?
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 02, 2010, 04:49:16 PM
Eeeek, well chickens do produce eggs (eggs = cakes  ;D ) and if you get bored of them / miss getting to the supermarket for the Sunday roast...  :o

Fish are pretty hypoallergenic too (well unless you are allergic to them and their shellfish buddies)

Maybe another breed of canine...labrador, or curly coated retrievers are tres tres cool or a rescued Heinz 57 mutt of the rough coated variety 8)

Don't know ref OS, just going to call sec...edit...6pm Thursday

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on August 02, 2010, 05:37:11 PM
I don't know much about allergies, but it seems odd that you'd suddenly develop an allergy to dogs if they've never been a source of trouble in the past. Can you get skin tests to find out if it is the dog that set it off?

Chickens are nice too, though not quite as cuddly. And you'd look a bit funny taking one for a walk.

Vickster - good news on the new OS appointment. Fingers crossed...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on August 02, 2010, 06:20:11 PM
Emma so sorry about the reation to the pup it sound pretty bad, a friend of mine moved house and the first night she was up all night with her nose and eyes streaming and her chest so tight she thought she was going to die, and they worked out the previous owners had 2 retrivers and the carpets were thick with their hair needless to say the next day every carpet was ripped up and her health improved, but since then she has had to take a antihistamine when coming to my house cos of our a dog, the thing is she didnt have a problem before the house move, in fact growing up her family had wiea maranas [dont have a clue how to spell them they are big grey german dogs with short hair] So she assumes that the carpet hair started up an allergy.
Another friend has a bichon frese and they are meant to be good if you have a dog hair allergy plus they dont cast.
Vicky excellent if thats you got an appointment with your o.s tis time to get Neelie on the road to recovery,,
Take care Tez   
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kcknee on August 02, 2010, 06:30:31 PM
I have known several people that have had allergies to puppy fur and not adult dog hair. My mother was wheezing and had red swollen itchy eyes when she spent time with one of our our shetland sheepdogs when he was a puppy, but now does not have a reaction to the dog at all. Maybe when your allergy settles down, try spending time with adult golden retrievers and see if you get the same reaction.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on August 02, 2010, 06:56:14 PM
I'm back (briefly!)...

Hello campers! Well, the knee has survived a three day jaunt at Camp Bestival, including going up the ladder to retrieve the 32kg tent (I guess it's the equivalent of a penthouse!) from the garage roof. Ground was uneven but with careful navigation and Ele saying "bump", "hole", "fence" to notify me of any impending hazard I may miss we got through OK :-). It was a fab long weekend with a big group of friends - some old and some brand new. Just unpacking to wash everything to repack for South Africa on Thursday!!

Oh yes Lottie - was it you who said I couldn't run coz I was old LoL??!!!! Just coz I could remember all the words to the Wurzels' songs from 1976!

Vicks - despite not having the result that you wanted from the insurance it sounds like you are making some positive strides to sorting you life, priorities and the Neelster. Good on you.

EmBoBOnions - bummer about the reaction :-( - very odd. Maybe try another session with him and see what happens? Poodles (no joke!), Bichons, Maltese and Tibetans are all non-moulters so are less likely to cause an allergic reaction (and it's much easier to keep the house clean).

Snowy - managed to catch up bits on FB - looks like you are finally making headway on the flexion. Fab news on the 30mins bike. Keep going! :-)))

Tez - you are a dark horse....driving already, what an achievement. Just be careful - the temptation to fly around doing "stuff" is really hard to contain.

..... guess what .... gotta dash - kickboxing time.... no peace for the wicked!

Love "n" hugs and festival vibes to you all from the "Guff" wearer ... (Lottie, I'll let you explain, you do it so much better than me!))


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on August 03, 2010, 10:35:12 AM
this thread has started making me ITCHY! The allergies are a sad state indeed. I am allergic to everything except dander so I can relate to that terrible wheezy feeling. I concur with what (the other!) Kristin is saying, though- it's true puppy fur is a totally different beast than adult dog hair. Also golden retriever puppy hair flies all over and gets in your mouth and eyes with supreme ease. Hope you can work out a solution.

happy to see lots of great progress on tez and snowy's threads- 2 little superstars!

cosmic, super jealous of your camping fun and glad your knee made it through no worse for the wear.

In my super-awesome good news, thanks to insurance restrictions and a little begging, I've finally been freed from Big Brad's shackles for good! I even refrained from having a major tantrum and calling him mean names. So now I am PT-free and can focus wholly on my new fitness balance- somewhere between rehab and working out like a normal person. It's definitely been tricky so far but at least I can do things on my own time instead of working out when I feel weak/sore/otherwise unable just to fit it in around my PT schedule.

hope everyone's having a great day.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 03, 2010, 12:36:08 PM
The allergy has settled today, the mogs aren't making me hyper itchy thankfully. I think I'm going to have to to go back and see the dogs again. Ironically I probably fussed the Mum dog more than the pups, as Richard was holding the boy dog pup the most, I was doing some general fussing etc and watching them play but I spent ages with the gorgeous Mum dog fussing her and telling her what a proud parent she was.  ::)  So, who know which ones triggered the reaction the most. The worry I have is that even if we think its the pups I will be fretting whilst he grows up that a) I have an allergy to manage and b) will it go away and when? It will kind of destroy the experience for me in many ways. I'm pretty done with "managing" ailments what with constantly managing the knees and onions, and this is meant to be a way of switching off from all of that! This whole allergic business is also making me seriously consider if R and I are at the same point in our understanding of pups....some fundamental differences of expectations and assumptions coming out over the past 48 hours and I am fearful I am going to end up with a HUGE amount more work than simply taking in a puppy!

Kris - well done on jetissoning Big Brad - back to normal training and exercise. I know you'll miss the TKRers though.  ;)

Vicks - good luck with the OS on Thursday - grill him on OATS and also if he feels the donor sites may cause any problems. Hopefully you'll get a good response and the insurers might get their finger out. I can understand the work/knee balance. It is tricky to time things - I guess there is no ideal timeline for having your knee chopped about.

Tez - you're doing so well. Keep up the work and take it steady too - I think you have a good balance.

Snowy - will post on your diary in due course!!

Cosmic's guff - she wears things in her hair called something like Chuff, or Scruff, or Buff. But I kept calling them Guffs last week, including knocking a display of Guffs over in a shop in Swanage. And then....some woman actually did a GUFF right behind us. We were cracking up.

GUFF's rule.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on August 03, 2010, 04:58:03 PM
Cosmic - question for you. How much are you doing in the way of day-to-day rehab now? Glad you had a great time at the festival, and especially glad the knee survived unscathed. :)

Kris - congrats on your escape from PT! I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to have to scale mine back due to the financial situation, which sucks - I think I've really been benefiting from the regular attention, especially the hands-on work.

Lottie - Are you rethinking the dog decision? Even if the baby retriever doesn't work out it might be worth having allergy tests to see if a different kind of dog is feasible. The varying expectations, however, might take a little more working on...

It's early morning here and I'm just putting my knee through the usual stretches and ankle pumps that it requires to unstiffen and face the day. I wish this swelling would settle so that I could be a bit less paranoid about inflammatory factors and get back on the morning coffee. I feel like my brain is missing its morning jump start.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on August 03, 2010, 07:32:48 PM
hello to all the Cosmic Cafe regulars
Lottie have you deciced what is happening re the pup, not sure what you mean exactly about the differences of expectations between yourself and Richard but my experience of having a puppy is that their will be a lot of hard work involved, just the basics like the pup being up half the night howling, also the house training is something that can become difficult depending on individual pups, like kids some get it before others and while they are going through the process there will be lots of little accidents on the floors, also the chewing most pups will go through a faze of chewing anything in their path, we have had pup's that have chewed carpets, sofas,shoes,toys, basicaly everything in their path, then there is the problem of what to do with them while away on holiday and even going out for the day.
Sorry I dont want to put you off having a dog as mine is my baby and i couldnt imagine not having her I love her to bits, but wish someone had told me what to expect before we went down the doggie path.
Kris congrats on getting rid of evil Brad it must feel good to think that you no longer have to put up with his sadistic side :P and working at your own pace should be nice for a change.
Cosmic looks like you had a good time at your festival and now your off to South Africa lucky you, its good to hear all that you can do without too much hassel and gives me something to look forward to.
Snowy I'm sure your swelling will go soon just be patient I appreciate that the lack of flex is slowing down the stuff you can do but before you know it you will be back doing all the dangerous stuff your used to doing.
Vicky look forward to hearing how the appointment goes on Thursday I hope you have a list of questions to ask and a note book with you to write all that was said down
Take care all Tez   
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: ouch09 on August 04, 2010, 12:50:13 AM

Sorry to hear about your dog allergy problems. Hope they work out !


Glad to hear you enjoyed the music festival. If you can carry 32kg tents down a ladder, you clearly don't have any knee issues any more. Are you still doing physio or is all that behind you now ?


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on August 04, 2010, 10:25:44 AM
Hey chaps,

PT - still doing my exercises with a long way to go. I was only given a limited range at my last NHS physio session about 5 weeks ago, so I am focussing on the recommendations from the private PT Mr OCD. He suggested that doing more of what I could do would only give me more stamina at it, and so increasing the load was more important in terms of increasing quad muscle mass.

Gym work has gone to the swanee with the advent of end of term activities in the last two weeks of school, and is just hasn't figured into the holiday agenda so all my work is done ad hoc at the moment..

Ad Hoc PT Schedule ... including but not exclusively....

Dog walks - between 4 and 10 miles a day over variable ground (sand, gravel, undergrowth!) up some hideous hills... and down sometimes too .... carrying a weighted rucksac (tea, coffee, mugs, lunch/nibbles and a couple of ankle weights - not so good for the shoulders or the waistline!)

Knee dips - I don't count them but at any opportunity where I am standing still (supermarket queues, Bestival!, washing up etc etc) I am bobbing like some demented bobbing thing. My knee doesn't particularly relish them, however the improvement over the last four weeks is definite. When I started doing them I could dip  a few degrees (almost impercetibly!) now I can get to 30o+ with 3 reps of 10 at a time.

Balancing at any opportunity (I am so used to the bewildered stares!) - good leg in front, behind, to the side, static, moving.... good when cleaning teeth, not good in the shower LoL ).

I've also been practicing a variety of slow kicks - using the good leg for balance as pivoting is required.... it's open chain but very controlled as the foot needs to be in a particular position to execute the kick correctly.

Lunges - ack - dislike.

(When I last went to the gym single leg presses were up to 30kg, 10 presses, 3 reps. Cross trainer 25 mins, Vario 25 mins, static bike 25 mins.)

The turbo trainer/ bike combo is resting as cycling with made my knee very sad, I guess it must be something to do with the riding position as the gym bike is OK - so I'm leaving it until return from SA (by which time I'll be at 14 weeks) and give it another try.

The quad muscle mass is becoming more defined, generally in the normal day's activities I am pain free. Occasionally if I overcook my day I am rewarded with an uncomfortable night  ::). I still have a small amount of swelling above the knee but it doesn't hinder movement, and tbh I think that it has been swollen for so long now that it is unlikely to return to it's original shape. I am still very wary of twisting and impact - they do cause sensations from discomfort to pain - although I do wonder how hyper-sensitised I am to any knee response and whether they are, actually, within the range of acceptable responses.

Haha Deepak - the 32kg tent was a bit of careful planning - the ladder took the strain and gravity was in my favour ;-). I'm not even contemplating trying to get it back up there - it's still in the car!

This is likely to be my last post (gets out the bugle!) for the next 3 weeks - by the time I come back Snowy's graft will be innervating and re-vascularising, Tez will be testing out her heels and Tony will be about 2 weeks post op and dusting his crutches.

Hoping the Big Brads (and his worryingly windy grin) of this world stay far distant memories and that your knee adventures continue to be good ones over the next three weeks....

"I'm a leavin'... on a jet plane... la la la lalala la"

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on August 04, 2010, 10:56:59 AM
Cosmic have a fantastic holiday we shall all miss your wit an wisdom, but will look forward to your return and a detailed account of all things South African.
I have just booked my flight out to my friend's place in Spain, it will be aprox 7 weeks post op so I assume by then it will be ok to fly etc, really looking foward to a break with some really good friends, no men and no kids total bliss, then it will be back to work for me and back to the daily grind yipeeee.
Take care a look afer that new acl  ;)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: ouch09 on August 04, 2010, 08:23:05 PM

Thanks for the very comprehensive description of your current physio schedule. I hope to be emulating that in a few weeks when (if) I get back on track with my physio.

I'm impressed that you can do the kicks, and I'm sure you've been dying to get back into the TKD  ;)

Have a great holiday in South Africa !


Good luck for your surgeon appointment tomorrow !


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 04, 2010, 10:22:26 PM
Cheers Deepak  :D

I am utterly confused right now as to what I should do.  Neelie has been an utter b**** today and my ankle is nice and swollen to boot (indeed,  my foot was hurting while swimming with the kicking tonight)!  Fed up...  :(
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 04, 2010, 10:54:29 PM
Cosmic - have an awesome holiday!! I will miss you!! Safe trip and I expect lots of photos of Stumpy knee up to all sorts of mischief!! NO GUFFS!!!  ;D

Vicks - sorry the knee has been such a pain. Perhaps with the bad days it makes it easier to bite the bullet and get booked in? Everytime Bob got terrible I was ready to have Mr S chop him up, same with the onions. Strange how both things appear to have normalised over the past 3 weeks, the fear of surgery is strong in my psyche or perhaps the PT is finally having a longer effect....who knows! Sound out Mr A tomorrow re OATS but mention all this weird ankle swelling etc, seems very odd for a lateral lesion to do all that.....she really isn't happy is she.  :'(

I am going back to sniff the dogs tomorrow. I spoke to the breeder who sounded a bit cheesed off with me, but it isn't my fault I had such a reaction!! To be honest, it may be a timely reaction as recent discussions with R indicate I may be making slightly more changes to my life than he would be to accomodate the pup. I have NO issue with us taking on a puppy, and making time to train it, walk it etc. BUT I am not going to be the one who does all the **** jobs and gets none of the fun. I am also having big worries about how the cats will react, especially my boy Boris who was a nervy rescue cat and who is now my special boy who loves tummy tickles and fuss but is still very wary of noises and strangers. Will he bolt and never come home? So, perhaps this is not the right time. I was underestimating my cat love I think, probably because they were my cats prior to getting together with R and hence a big part of my soul.

Tez - good work on the driving. I have not driven a manual car for nigh on 11 months but last weekend I sat in R's Dad's new Tiguan and plonked the clutch down and played with the gears - I could do it! OK, the clutch wasn't biting but a few months back I simply could not do the clutch release action without horrible pain. Perhaps Bob is self healing from the inside!!

Snowy - you're simply awesome with your progres. I must post on your thread but I have all fingers and paws crossed for an early release to REAL cycling!!  8)

Deepak, sounds like things are OK although I am just about to hop over to your many diaries...such little time for the onions to read!

Hugs to all,

Lottie xxx (Dogless, but with a full set of prog rockers)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on August 05, 2010, 10:52:06 AM
Lottie, I can hear it now... "Ma'am, please don't sniff the dogs"

Vicky... I really hope the OS has some good ideas for you and sorry that Neelie is having her time of the month!

hope all is well with the musketeers I am off to check your threads!

not much to report here... kneetard's a little stiff this morning but it's a gym day, so she'll either be better or worse later. Too soon to tell! I tripped on the sidewalk yesterday when I was leaving work. Almost falling on my face was bad enough, but that was my first near-accident with the 'new and improved' kneetard. "A little scary" is an understatement, I almost peed.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 05, 2010, 10:55:54 PM
Well, very good chat with OS...obviously he is unimpressed with the insurance company's decision but he doesn't think there is anything more he can do to change their mind!

We discussed the other options. 
Simple microfracture is not an option,the defect is already filled with fibrocartilage which is tender - if the bone was exposed,yes, it would be possible but it isn't so no point.

Osteochondral grafting (OATS/mosaicoplasty) - good to discuss, but again he is very unwilling to go down this route - old procedure (he is a bit of a cartilage pioneer so has been doing this for a long time) and does not think the success is good enough - my defect is on the cusp size wise for it to be a consideration (max 2cm2), it is also on a curved surface and thus more difficult to patch up successfully.  If it could be sorted with a single plug, ok but no. Also, interestingly, you still end up with fibrocartilage around the plug and we know how much neelie loves that s***  >:(  Last resort stuff

He said he could try hyalauronic (sp?) acid injections - 3 a week apart to add somefluid to the joint and see if that helps the tenderness, might work but again I didn't get a huge amount of enthusiasm (or I guess he would do it)

He didn't look at the knee but asked how it was - basically, no better, still swollen, stiff, achy, blah blah and now ankle/foot suffering too...

Then we discussed the trial question and this is where is gets more interesting and hopeful...he has recommended that I see John Skinner preferably (or Tim Briggs) at Stanmore about the Active trial.  Said to get GP to refer me as the insurance company could get sniffy if he just sends me there (not sure why but they do move in mysterious ways lol).  I got the impression he knows them well so will happily write and explain all about my case.

So...this I will to do something, need my life and career back on track and this knee isn't getting better on its own. 
The OS did say of couse no guarantees with any of these ops and I could have more pain, but worth the risk I think.
I have had the bike out and been back in the gym doing some light bike, XT, stepper, rowing but neelie has really not reacted well to that.  Stanmore is 50 miles away, about an hour so not the end of the world.  The follow up protocol doesn't look too hideous (ok for 10 years :o but only once a year for an actual appointment after the first 6 months or just a questionnaire to complete - I'm a market research director, I can do that lol  ;D ), would just need to be sure that I can do physio locally.  Hopefully, I'd get randomised into the non ACI/MACI arm and have AMIC anyhow in the end with someone other than my stingy insurers covering the cost (although I will make sure they are charged for as much as they can be ;) )

Phew, so that's that!! Looks like no op for me in September which works ok from a work point of view as things have got more complicated on that front for a few reasons  ::)  Still want to get this sorted asap so as to not disrupt 2011 like 2010!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on August 06, 2010, 06:20:13 AM
Vickster - sorry to hear that the grafting options aren't going to work out; that's really too bad. But the trial does sound pretty exciting, and with luck will get Neelie to a point that you can live with. It might be worth considering the hyaluronic acid injections as an intermediary step; I've heard good things about them from arthritis sufferers here, although obviously that's a bit different to Neelie's situation.

Cosmic - have a wonderful time! We'll all miss you a lot, but hopefully there will be a few Facebook updates during your break. Enjoy the sights of SA and the time with Mr. Cosmic. :) Thanks for providing such a detailed breakdown of what you're up to kneewise at this point; it's good to have a sense of what might be ahead, especially as your recovery seems to have been pretty close to mine up to this point (with the exception of my early ditching of the crutches, and my problems being with flex rather than extension.) At this point I can't imagine being pain free during normal activities, but it's a nice thing to keep in mind. :) Actually at this point I have no recollection whatsoever of what a normal knee felt like - anyone???

Lottie - sorry to hear about the ongoing puppy complications. How did the sniff test go? I hope you're able to get it worked out and make a final decision. Definitely not something you want to do unless you're 100% sure, wonderful though puppies are. We'd love to get a dog one day, but have no illusions about how well one would fit into our lives right now - we're both far too busy. One day, when we have that plot of land out on the Gulf Islands... (How are the prog rockers?)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on August 06, 2010, 10:49:03 AM
Vicky, I am glad to hear your OS had some ideas for you. Seems like the trial might be a good option for you if you can get some local attention from it as well. Fingers crossed that whatever the next steps are in the "paper pushing" phase of this go really easy for you.

Lottie how's your nose?

Yesterday I managed 40 minutes of cardio (combined bike/treadmill) for the first time in almost a year. It was pretty exciting... kneetard only protested a little and is just a bit sore today, but nothing major. I also treated myself to a little "foam roller" action. Almost as good as the old "Big Brad push and pop" but way less unpleasant.

hope you're all having a great day... I know Tez is hanging out with hunky young boys in class right now... COUGAR!  :D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on August 06, 2010, 11:50:43 AM
Kris... Cougar!! not so much, not sure if I am disapointed or not but the class was pretty mixed there were a couple of younger guys but also a few older folk of both sexes, in a way I was happy because I didnt feel like the old lady but not too sure if the whole class thing is really my cup of tea  or not I will give it another week its on a Wed and Fri so even just for the fitness side it will do me good, the problem I see is there is very little one to one attention you are given a sheet with your excersises and told to get on with it and if you need advice then go and ask, I dont know what to do at the moment  I kinda think I would prefer a bit more attention from a physio [I know I crave attention lol]
Vicky this trial sounds as if it will be ideal for you as it gives you the chance still to have the amic and if not the other option sounds pretty hopefull, I know from our chats that neelie and the ankle are not getting any better in fact things seem to be worse so something has to be done if not now then in the future and the longer you leave it the longer your in pain and the longer your unable to be as active as you want to be.
Lottie what's happening about the pup? have you been for another sniff yet? I can understand how you feel about the cats it would be horrid to upset them by bringing in a new pup but then again they may love having a dog about the house to play with and bully lol.
I hope Cosmic has arrived out in SA safe and sound and all the Cosmics have a fantastic holiday.
I hope everyone has lots of fun plans for the weekend.
Take care Tez 
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 06, 2010, 05:57:04 PM
Thanks all!

My insurance company have agreed for me to see Mr Skinner and have signed off on an initial and follow up appointment, routine scans, x-rays and bloods and have made an appointment to see him on the afternoon of Friday 20th August (I was offered 9.15 on the 19th, erm it could be a 2 hour drive in the rush hour even in August so declined, far too early).  They'll accept the referral from current OS so i don't need to see my GP - I have an appointment with her next Thursday am, may keep it as much as to keep her in the loop with all this malarky!

So the war commences, but I have won the next battle with the insurers  ;)  They are certainly open to me being part of a trial (well they would be as it'll be at least part funded by someone else lol )

Neelie's fun continues!

Tez - glad the class wasn't too horrendous, but if one on one works better for you, maybe switch or do both on alternate weeks for example while you are off

Lottie - did you recover ok from the nutty pups and mum-induced sniffles?

Take care knees and onions of the world, wherever they may be on hols (lucky Cosmic) or at home! ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 06, 2010, 06:42:15 PM
Good news on the appointment - RNOH have an excellent reputation, you'll be in safe hands. At least they can talk you through it all and make some plans.  ;D How do they allocate you - is it completely random or based on scans etc?

I'm suffering like **** from the dogs - at least I assume it is that as my throat is itchy and red, my nose is SO itchy inside and out and my eyes feel like gravel is on my lenses and are horribly itchy too. I spent probably 30 minutes with the pups and 15 with the Mum yesterday, very hands on and by the time I got home I was starting. It has been worse today, and I kind of feel very wheezy and allergic too, didn't even make gym as my chest feels so tight. So, no puppy. I am not that sad in reality - there were some major concerns that R hadn't quite factored in and Vicks pointed out some practical problems I had kind of assumed I'd deal with e.g. I'd assumed pup would be easily trainer o walk off lead and return to even if onions were sore I could get him ample exercise by throwing things, etc etc..but some dogs don't learn rapidly or what if I was being pulled along by a stonking great dog for 3 hours a day with a bad onion? The prog rockers are doing GREAT at the moment, but who knows in 5 years what they'll be like! i think we'd been a bit short term......The pups were BONKERS yesterday as well, out in the garden and hungry - CHAOS!!! So cute but bloody hard work! If we do get a different breed one day it will be when we BOTH have a lot of time. Probably when we retire!!

Anyway, saw a client today with an AWESOME cat - black with a kind of stripe in darker black, quite chunky, thick soft fur, and orange eyes. So cuddly - I want one. R says I can't but I'll just get one if I want one - he'll love it too.  ::) :P  I know cats don't make me wheeze, lottie cat is a silver tabby and sheds chunks of fur all over the place!

Tez - I think classes are a bit of a cop out for PT in many ways. Little focus on your form, safety, progression...I would feel the same that they might give me some ideas but I'd prefer some 1-2-1 input designed for my knee and my recovery. Do you get the option of this or would you have to see your private one? In some ways a lower number of one to ones with proper focus and homework may be more useful than many groups with little bespoke design...

Kris - you cardio maniac - excellent news. Sounds like the kneetard is beginning to normalise and is not missing Big Brad...I always foam roll, boy its nasty when you start but keep it up and it works wonders. have you done your glutes/butt cheeks on it? You find a totally zinger spot when you roll about!! I do my quads and TFL too (kind of top of leg, near groin, hips etc) and it looks like some form of porno activity going on in the gym floor. I bought one for home usage too.....oooer.

Snowy - I must post on your diary, I read it every day and then forget to reply. The smog you've got sounds nasty. No smog in the UK - it is cold, windy and I have a fleece on. Hey ho, Autumn is here.

Any plans for the weekend? I am aiming to do gym both mornings and then some shopping tomorrow. Possibly see if there are any films to go and see too, as I now know the prog rockers can set up in the front row of the "circle" and have room to breath. Seeing Sound of Music with my Mum next week, she loves musicals and i do have a soft spot for all those songs. I may dress up as a nun, but it isn't sing-a-long...shame....

Hugs to all knees and other bits!!

Lottie xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 07, 2010, 03:23:07 PM
Lottie - reading the protocol  (very long if you are interested), patients are randomised to either ACI / MACI (depending on surgeon choice) or to control group (mfx, mosaicoplasty, AMIC) with choice based on best patient need (so assume AMIC for me) .  It is random which arm, so have to prepared and indicated / not contraindicated for either.

I am having a lazy day - months of rubbish sleep have finally caught up with me and I woke up at 1pm  :o  It's now 3.20, have had a shower and breakfast ... must must get up and go to gym / pool lol  It's also raining now which isn't helping my enthusiasm!

Hope all the knees and onions are joyful (and not being as idle as Neelie ;D )
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on August 09, 2010, 10:41:19 AM
good morning all! here it's 5:30 so I am at my desk... happy Monday GRRR

Vicky I am so jealous of your lazy day! Because of my early work schedule, I can never really sleep in on weekends either. I know the kneetard likes sleep so I bet Neelie was happy.

Lottie, have you tried any antihistamine drops? I am not a huge fan of nasal sprays but my mother-in-law is a big nose sufferer and swears by them. I use the eye drops (called zaditor here) religiously... a little expensive but totally worth it. Also the hiiiiiiiiiilllllls are alive, with the sound of music! (I am embarrassed to admit I still love it too!)

Had another long cardio session on Saturday and pumped up the leg press machine to 70 lbs. (I am still doing up with both legs and down on the "good one" only) Have been really sore since... kneetard is all puffed up and my ass is sooooo sore! God I am out of shape. I don't know if I have the confidence to do porno moves on the floor at the gym so I may be investing in my own roller soon. On Saturday my gym started its "90 day fitness challenge" so it was a pretty uncomfortable scene, trying to roll while almost getting stepped on by people who had never been in a gym before and didn't know how to act. I think odds are that many will start dropping out immediately so hopefully the gym doesn't stay crowded (it's like the New Year's Resolution rush came early this year.)

hope everyone's stuff is behaving!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 12, 2010, 08:02:41 AM
Thought I'd sign back in - not too much to report.  Neelie continues to grouch and grumble, either achily or sharply and usually for no discernible reason!  ::)  The gym cardio seems to annoy her, so I'll stick to the pool at least until I see the OS next week.

Current OS agrees that I should have a fresh MRI for the new OS, and I should have a date for that today over the next few days (joy, bang bang bang beep beep beep).  Being done locally - was very complicated trying to explain to the insurance company which consultant had requested it and for where - technically, in their eyes, I am now under the new OS, although it is the old one requesting at that hospital.  They can sort out the payment later!

MRI 10am next Wednesday (woo can have a little lie in)

I will get a copy of the OS referral letter - I wonder what OS speak is for hypochondriac or f***** knee  ???  ;D

I am seeing my GP shortly to fill her in on the latest in the Neelie saga (this is longer than the Lord of the Rings) as she will undoubtedly receive some communication from the new OS which might prove confusing!  I'll also ask her about my strange dizzy spells - I think it is probably low BP (have had before), or could be something more diet related given the weight loss (although currently totally static, that 6kg target looks further and further away!)

Edit - my BP is on the low side (although consistent with previous readings) at 105/70, happily in normal, but according the GP, low for 'big girl' like me, all the blood must drain to my feet while sitting and takes a while to travel back round to the bits that need it ;D  No treatment, just keep well hydrated and don't stand up too quickly or lean forwards!

Hope the knees and onions around the world are joyful  :D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on August 14, 2010, 05:42:38 AM
Sorry to hear that Neelie isn't settling down at all. How quickly do things usually move when you enter a clinical trial? I vaguely had the impression that it's pretty slow, but it seems like things are starting already for you.

It will be interesting to see if the new MRI exposes anything new, given Neelie's continuing grouchiness. I remember when I had my first MRI I'd imagined I would be lying in a tube with soothing white noise in the background; I had no idea it would be like being on the inside of a particularly noisy combustion engine.

Keep us posted on how things go, and fingers crossed that this is the start of a fix for Neelie's woes.

Cosmic's Cafe seems awfully quiet without least we know from her FB pics that she's making the most of her time away!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 14, 2010, 10:00:31 AM
Hi Snowy,
From what I've read about the trial, (initial) surgery should occur within 3 months of being randomized (M/ACI vs other)  - how long randomisation takes, I have no idea - to be discussed on Friday.  I now have the letter from my OS, lays out the history pretty clearly and also is fairly definitive that AMIC or MACI would be the best course of action.  So we shall see.  This time next week I should have a better idea of next steps - trial, mosaicplasty with current OS (which he would be happy to perform per his letter to my GP) or nothing, cross fingers and live with it! 

Fortunately, Neelie has been fairly calm this week (bit of burning and stabbing but hey), but I've not been to the gym or on the bike.  Just a couple of swims - that is on hold now as I appear to have a bloody cold  >:(

MRI not the most fun way to spend half an hour but at least one's head isn't inside for the knee imaging! I shall not listen to Muse, Black Holes and Revelations this time, maybe something a bit more gentle and less like the actual sound of the machine!

Happy weekend to the knees and onions around the world xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 15, 2010, 10:22:13 AM
Morning all

Just a brief check in to the cafe with my morning tea. Vicks hoping the meeting with the new OS this coming week is productive. I know it looks possible that the op may not be done til early new year from what you've said which is a pain, but if it helps and is the right thing then it is wirth waiting for. You never know - Neelie may have a sudden healing surge whilst waiting!

Me - I've had a pretty bad few days. Started to get some niggles early in the week and by Friday all my joints were very painful and hot and stiff. Clearly my systemic steroid shot that was actually for my hay fever has been responsible for my transformation over the past 6 weeks and it has now worn off. Consequently I think I've had a rebound effect and all my orginal problems are back. It seems so strange that I get such a violent flare along with feeling exhausted, virtually suicidal and in terrible pain. So, it is the GP for me on Tuesday afternoon. I need some investigations doing - this seems such an inflammatory cycle that reacted so well to a systemic dose of steroid I am unsure if something else is going on as well as the basic OA/PFS. Depending on the outcome of that I will have to think about rebooking the onion as the foot is agony again, and looking at what can help the knees. Unfortunately I am getting pains in my thumbs, wrists, lower eyes are dry, itchy ... cannot concentrate.....all very weird, frustrating and quite scary.  ???  I can't live on steroid injections and whilst they may try oral steroids the hideous side effects almost make me prefer the pain - but realistically I can't live as I am. I have managed things like the cinema and walking on the beach recently - too much to ask at the age of 41 being otherwise fit???

Anyway, when I'm like this I tend to withdraw and just want R to look after me so I am reading about people and wishing you all well but apologies if I'm quiet.

I'll update after GP visit - new GP as we moved and I haven't seen this one. Lets hope he is helpful.

Hugs to all

Lottie xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on August 15, 2010, 10:41:09 AM
Lottie so sorry you are having this horrible flair up it sound pretty nasty Im pleased your planning to go see your gp cos the fact other joints are involved it is time you had some blood tests etc, I just hope the new GP is good and gets to the bottom of all your problems (((((((hugs))))))) to you and feel better soon.
Tez xxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: LARSknee on August 15, 2010, 02:27:53 PM
Hi Lottie
i havent read all of your posts on here but sounds as though you need some serious cheering up with all that you are going through,so thought i would just drop by and say hi and wish you all the best for a speedy recovery.

Hope lots of positive things come your way.


Shelli :>)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on August 15, 2010, 05:27:11 PM
Oh Lottie - I'm so sorry. You're right, this sounds way beyond any kind of PFS or OA related flareup, and it's definitely time for further investigation.

Do you have any thoughts or ideas on what's setting the cycle off? What was the cycle like prior to the steroid injection - did it happen regularly or was it consistently bad? Are you having a worse reaction than normal because of the steroid wearing off?

For the knees, the only thing I can think of is to try bracing (I think you mentioned previously that you hadn't tried that yet). I found that using unloader braces to change the forces through the joint really helped lessen the pain when I was having a bad flareup. Depending on the severity, Opedix leggings (designed for runners and skiers) can also be used for unloading and are way more comfy than a brace, though I found them better for the moderately bad knee than the really bad one.

I'm so sorry that you're feeling so rough, but glad that R is taking good care of you. Hang tight, and know that all of your gimpy-kneed friends are sending love and hugs from our far-flung corners of the world.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 15, 2010, 10:32:10 PM
Lottie - I hope you are feeling better having managed to get out and about today and even to the gym :)  Fingers crossed that the new GP is able to help you out.  There must be something else going on to upset all your joints and immune system like this.  A trip to a rheumatologist or allergist might be in order :)

From my side, I'd love Neelie to heal without intervention, but at nearly 12 months post injury and 6 months post scope and with the fibro not likely to go away, I am not very optimistic.  Yes, the knee can feel more settled, but any additional activity seems to set it off.  Standing for hours today, being sat in the car and then a trip to John Lewis, it has been sore, medially but especially where the defect is.  Took the bike out this evening, to get some exercise and burn off some of the c*** consumed this weekend and although I can ride 5 miles or so, hills are a challenge and uncomfortable unless in a low gear.  I never seem to be able to have a ride, gym session or even swim without some pain in the knee, ankle or foot (depending on the exercise).  It'll be interesting to see what the fresh MRI shows and hopefully, I'll have some idea of next steps on Friday :)

Take care all xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: ouch09 on August 16, 2010, 01:11:55 AM

Sorry to hear you're feeling so terrible.

Your symptoms definitely sound like they're not OA/PFS related.

I had a friend in her 20s (I like to hang round with young people - it makes me feel less old  ;D) who had a similar problem, and in the end it turned out that her body was just trying to tell her to rest : she was working, exercising and partying too hard. I'm not saying that is what's going on with you since I don't know how hard you're partying  ;)

Seriously, I hope you get some answers from the GP.

I agree with Vickster that you might benefit from seeing a rheumatologist, allergist or endocrinologist.

Glad that R is giving you plenting of TLC.

Hope things get better soon.


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 16, 2010, 08:26:53 AM
Thank you for the kind thoughts everyone... ;D  I will be pushing the GP for some further tests to see if anything shows up in the blood works and then take it from there. I also need a proper plan to manage whatever is going on, although clearly that might depend on what if anything is diagnosed. I just find it hard to believe that this cycle of flares/exhaustion/low mood happen so regularly with simple worn out kneecaps! And then the feet both join in! Snowy - prior to the steroid shot things were not TOO bad, I had thought that PT was helping the general function but I still had days of nasty burning and pain although not the degree I had over Friday and the weekend. Things have calmed a little today, R took me out yesterday as it was warm and sunny then made me go to the gym for some weights and some time on the arm bike to stimulate natural cortisol levels, then I drowned my sorrows in some pink wine and a DVD - I have been avoiding wine but I decided it wasn't going to make things much worse! The braces are not a bad idea, I shall have to look into them as clearly the knees ned some help. The pain is just so frustrating - it isn't that I can't walk, or weight bear, or bend to full ROM all of which are fine  - its this hideous sore diffuse hot burning sensation in them. Perhaps it is just OA and my life is doomed to 30 years of arthritis....blimey I'll be booking for a PFJR if it is!!!

GP tomorrow at 4.15. Friend coming up today to go over some joint working ideas (not knee joints!) and we'll go to the gym later and do some padwork as she is also into her punching and fitness. She is staying over as R is away for work and then its time for a double pronged Lottie and Elaine assessment tomorrow on an unsuspecting client. Hoping Boris doesn't bring her another mouse head. Not yet found the remainder of the mouse... :-\

Oh and the best news - R is booking 2 weeks off in November and we're going to take our previously Icelandic volcano aborted trip to Fuerteventura. Woohooo...the knees should like warm November weather!!  :D 8)

Thanks again all

Happy knees to the KGers xxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on August 17, 2010, 05:02:36 PM
Poor Lottie. :( The sensation you describe actually sounds horribly familiar - it's the same feeling - that burning hot pain throughout the joint - that I get from severe PFS flareups. Hopefully that means it's not OA (or maybe it means my OA is worse than I thought?)

What did the GP say? (I think your appointment will be happening right about now, given the time difference.)

Hope you're feeling better today, and glad you have two weeks in the sun to look forward to. :)

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 17, 2010, 05:15:21 PM
Hello Snowy and the world,

Your timekeeping is excellent, I have just seen my new GP. Nice chap, if a little "aloof". Typically today is a good day so I wander in there in vest, cut off jeans, relatively tanned, looking healthy, and he must think I am a complete fraud. He felt my knee and extended it and told me it made a lot of noise. (NO **** Sherlock it has no cartilage left on the kneecap!!). I told him about my flare ups and symptoms and he felt my hands and wrists and has referred me for some blood tests for checking of rheumatoid factors and iron levels etc. He doesn't *think* its rhemuatoid as the joints aren't red or hot, but tests will confirm. The steroid I had shouldn't have made such a radical change to OA but it might do - a direct one into the joint might help with a severe flare but it isn't a treatment plan as such especially not at 41 as they do weaken ligaments. He mentioned I will likely need "resurfacing" like an old road in the future - well I kind of knew that but I am working in the here and now not 10 years down the line....if the bloods indicate anything we need to talk different meds, such as course of steroids or a DMARD (modifies the activity of the immune attacking disease). Really don't want anything like that going on....

We discussed medication and he has prescribed some Celebrex, one of the COX-2 NSAIDs at my request (it is costly and PCTs don't like it but I pointed out I had funded all my scans and OS appts so far so I was owed some drugs). His view on surgery - a scope to clean out won't do much apart from buy me some months of possible better function but as I have full ROM and no locking he said don't bother. His wisdom on knee surgery was that the only ones that ever worked were...wait for it.....TKR (so long as not fat or lazy and not willing to rehab) and....ACLr!!!

So, blood being done on Monday as I am away with work tomorrow for 2 days and otherwise keep working, keep exercising, keep smiling. Gotta love GPs.  ::) :P

The past 3 days have been better - been to the gym twice and the knees are not too bad. The onion is NASTY, here we go again! I think I am going to have a steroid shot into the onion (can't do any harm, it will end up being fused anyway and Snowy - your messages about that have really made me feel better) and possibly a Euflexxa shot into Bob. This is an oil change shot - Tez did you say a friend of yours has these for knee OA?

Snowy - the PFS is inflammation I guess, and I suspect some of my pain is from that rather than pure OA or the missing cartilage. My knee isn't mishapen, overly stiff, has full ROM etc (unlike my toe which has BIG OA on the X rays), so I wouldn't think yours is too advanced. It doesn't stop it hurting though. Frustrating or what. I feel like many times I'd like to take my kneecaps off and wash them out!!

Hope all the knees are behaving - Vicks good luck with scan tomorrow. Deepak, thanks for the kind wishes too, ah, if only I was partying too hard...I remember those days... 8)

Lottie x
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on August 17, 2010, 09:05:00 PM
Dear Lottie so pleased your having some blood work done, even if nothing shows up at least you'll know theres nothing lurking that causes these flair ups. I cant remember the name of the stuff my client had injected into her knee but if its the same thing, she is doing really well she went from walking with a stick being unable to go up and down stairs and unable to go on holiday because of pain and how limited her walking was, now she skips into the salon without needing a walking stick she was just back from a cruise in South America and is now planning another holiday out to friends in Canada.
At least your GP thinks that an aclr is a worthwhile that has put my mind at rest as I;m sure it has for Snowy and Deepak and all the other acl'ers on here :P
Take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on August 18, 2010, 12:19:59 AM
Ack, poor Lottie. I'm glad you have some options to try, but frustrating not to know anything conclusive at this point. Surgery is a tough one. I know just what you mean about wishing you could wash the knee out, and a knee laundering might help - but it's still an enormously traumatic event for the knee with its own recovery period, so probably not worth going that route unless you've exhausted the other options and are really confident that it will help. (Of course an OS would probably have a better perspective on that than a GP...)

One of the reassurances of having the ACLr is that now a surgeon has been inside my knee, and so I know for sure that the OA isn't too bad - particularly as the operated knee was the one which developed OA first, and has been the more problematic of the two. (I hesitate use the term "good knee" as the right one has been through its own set of traumas, but nothing as bad as the ACL rupture.) This does mean that the severe PFS flareups I was having were all down to inflammation, and I hope the same is true of your joint pain - it's not fun at all, but there are a lot more varied and less invasive treatment options than for severe OA.

Tell your GP that the ACLr gang will sleep easier for having his seal of approval. ;)

Glad that things are feeling a bit better, and I hope either the NSAIDs or the Euflexxa shot have the desired effect.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on August 18, 2010, 11:23:31 AM
Hi kneetards!

Lottie, Glad you're having some bloodwork done and hope you get answers! Also, why does being tan and in shorts make us frauds? I used to get the same crap from one of the PT assistants, something to the effect of "you are always so tan and show up in your little shorts, I didn't think you had a job." Apparently we're supposed to be inside in our wheelchairs because we have joint problems. The damn thing hurts just as much inside as it does when I am sunning myself, so might as well be brown I say! I know very little about celebrex, what is it that makes it different from other NSAIDs? Is that the one that replaced vioxx after everyone had heart attacks?

Vicky, good luck w. the scan! Looking forward to news.

I am stiff as a board today, had to opt to wear sneakers to work today... attractive (not) At this point I am counting down to my OS appt on the 31st. It's sort of unnerving to be out here on my own and not know if my aches and stiffness are good, bad or indifferent. After hanging out on KG for so long, it's tempting to start flipping out and start diagnosing myself w. complications... lol

good knee day to all!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 18, 2010, 11:44:11 AM
Kris - hope you have de-stiffened a bit!  I usually wear trainers to work, with a dogy knee and big feet, tends to be easier  ;D

Scan was fine - more comfortable than the first one as I can actually straighten my leg having the meniscus issue sorted since!  Neelie started to ache towards the end and is stiff now, but nothing out of the ordinary.  Listened to Keane this time, far more agreeable than MUSE, which although they are fantastic, was a bit full on with the noise of the scanner too  ;D

I have had a quick look at the disc but obviously means almost nothing to me  :-\  The radiology department have the new OS's sec's fax number and there should be no issue with getting the report over in time for the appointment on Friday

Celebrex is a COX-2, so the same class as Vioxx.  Anti-inflammatory, but not an NSAID, does not have such a potentially detrimental on all bits gastric.  Looking at the drug book on my desk (I work in pharma market research), all COX-2's carry cardiac risk, the thing with Vioxx is that IIRC, Merck knew about it from trials but didn't disclose!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 18, 2010, 12:04:33 PM
The cardiac risk does exist, but most drugs are not without risk. GP said if I were older/overweight/had a history of family heart conditions/high blood pressure I would not be alowed it. But thankfully none of the above apply so I will give it a go - when I remember to take the presciption out with me.....

Kris - I suspect your aches and pains are probably pretty normal, you did have a fair old bit done and it can take months for the joint to settle down. It is scary sometimes though as you just read all the bad things on KG and forget the good ones!! I know what you mean it shouldn't matter if you look fit and well, I refuse to start looking like a dag just because I have **** joints but I do think the GP would have listened a bit more had I slouched in unwashed, fat and sobbing. Probably given me Prozac as well as Celebrex.... ::) :P

Been to the gym, not my usual one as thats a drive the other way to Newcastle and had a go on the Wave machine - ooooh noooooooo nasty nasty nasty on the kneecaps. Back to the cross trainer and they have arm bikes unlike my regular gym  - I thought I was relatively strong upper body wise but that arm bike can kill me!! Mega weights, leg press for weedy legs and relax...Then a large take out coffee, back for a shower as the changing rooms were full of ankle biters and off oooop north. Bob won't like it, it is always freezing cold and raining above Sheffield.... ::) Opted for a decent hotel with pool and gym so aim for a weight session and steam room after the long drive, and hopefully very early morning sesh to ready myself for the mad client and the long drive home....

Hugs to all

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on August 18, 2010, 01:18:18 PM
Thanks for the info on the drugs, ladies. I love an education, and since I suspect I liquefied my guts on the months of ibuprofen, this may be helpful info for my future!

Lottie, I did turn up to the GP one day fat, unwashed and sobbing when I was still trying to get my OS referral... it didn't work either! I guess it's best we stay presentable. (Lest I misrepresent myself, I should note that I am probably not "that" presentable... have been wearing rubber flip flops to work basically every day for months... so maybe gym shoes are a step up? I was just looking for a little more foot support!) Not sure what I will do when it starts snowing, hopefully the 'tard will be acting "normal" by then- whatever that is!!

The arm bike is a BEAST! That was my last resort pre-op before even sitting at it became unbearable for the 'tard. If you can stand it, it will give you amazing shoulders... honestly I haven't been back to it now that my legs work, it was giving me wrist aches and I didn't want to go down another pain road thanks! I laughed at the ankle-biters in the locker room... probably 75% of the time I end up bailing out of there still stinky because of the summer day campers and unattended children who are just there to use the outdoor pool.

Vickster, glad the scan went ok. Let me guess: Muse + scanner sounds like a lot of "bleep bloop arrgghhh"? I prefer keane to just about anything so I am biased  :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: seerobinbike on August 18, 2010, 07:28:05 PM
Hey All,

Started reading Cosmic's 'diary' today and (finally!!) realized that it doesn't matter what type of injury brought us to the boards.  Duuhhh...light finally dawns on Marblehead...this board is about each of our trials post op when things are supposed to get better.  So to all of you fellow geeks out there, I both join you and salute you in your quest for usable knees.   ;D  Keep fighting the good fight!!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 21, 2010, 10:04:23 AM
To resurrect Cosmic's cafe (had dropped off the first page  :o  )...

I saw the new OS yesterday...interesting

Explained the procedure - (M)ACI rather than AMIC - via scope, check that the defect is actually suitable for cartilage transplant and if so, harvest of cells (around 100 which then head of to the lab for a while to multiply).  Followed by the big operation, open, really quite painful, 3-4 days in hospital, brace, crutches, a year of rehab and taking it easy but he said that most people don't see any real benefit for 2+ years !  Said that the MRI this week shows improvement versus the one from October - the two had been compared.  He then examined at my knee.  Said my walking is ok pretty good (it is as good as it has ever been, Neelie although still stiff and 'off' is pretty calm at the moment) and I need to think about whether I am absolutely sure I want to go through this.  He said I am doing all the right stuff in the gym and should continue to build that up and then get out on the road bike more if happy (I did go out last night, knee felt ok but I ended up with a monster stitch, hurt like hell and I struggled to get home, finally eased when I lay on the sofa)!

I do wonder whether he was implying that ACI will not help Neelie get beyond where she is now?  I am now really confused but think I am going to wait and ramp it up more in the gym over the next month and see how the knee reacts if I push to doing what I was in May (before I decided it as doing me no good lol).  IF it gets worse, then I'll rethink.  I do need to be able to travel for work - Neelie did not like flying in June - and probably long haul.  I am possibly off to Germany in September which will mean yomping around airports, flying and then sitting through focus groups - should test Neelie's mettle.

The gym should also help me shift those last 6kg too!

The Neelie saga continues...  :-\

Whoever reckons OS's are scalpel happy haven't met the 2 I have dealt with  ;D

Oh and the journey to Bushey was HIDEOUS both ways!  The M25 was a 'mare going, so much traffic and coming back through London, although moving was an adventure as always and it cost me £8 for the Congestion Charge (although shorter distance and not stuck in traffic unlike M25, which was awful at 2.30, would have been utterly shocking at 4.30!!)  >:(
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 21, 2010, 11:02:21 AM
Oh well, at least he didn't rush you into doing anything. At least pushing the knee a bit will see how it copes, if you can live with it, and if the fibro covering falls off then you'll probably know that the op is a better option as it will hurt more! It is good that he was realistic I guess.  :)  I wonder if it is worth PMing JulianUK who had MACI at Stanmore 7 years ago on a focal defect - he can tell you his limitations prior to surgery, his decision process, what the rehab was really like etc. He is doing very well I know but he followed rehab to the LETTER.

I've had a bad bad week. I've decided that due to my knees being considerably "worse" than the odd lesion and having what amounts to bicompartmental grade 3 and 4 OA I need to seek a more holistic view. Thanks to a couple of very helpful PMs on here from drmark and WorkingWings I have a contact in Norwich who is the leading UK patella specialist. I need a rounded view, no point going through all of possible cartifill, release, etc etc if basically the joint is worn out or rotational issues need to be considered. My symptoms are worsening, I have pain at rest and at night, a constant burning, sharp pains through the kneecaps etc. The bloods will show if anything is going on but even if they do, it won't change the changes I have so to speak. To be honest if someone recommends replacement parts that give me my life back then I will consider it. Better for my situation than faffing about trying to darn a holey sock as would ACI be or even cartifill. I noticed Michael Douglas had a TKR a few months back, as did Fabio Capello and as did my fab removals man who was carrying sofas and jumping into vans 10 weeks post op. I am of the view now of fix it, the best it can be fixed (or them as both are screwed). I am sick of a half life.  :-\  I did a screening test for "what can you do". My 80 year old Mum did better..... :'(  If the doc thinks the lubrication injections might help I will give them a try but my mental state is shifting to accepting what might be a different line of action in a shorter term than a longer one.

Alongside that various other things are going on which I won't post on here.

And when is Cosmic back?!! I am missing her heaps. Come home Cosmic, Warwick castle is waiting for us!!  ;D

Hugs to all

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on August 21, 2010, 07:08:43 PM
evening all thanks Vicky for pulling Cosmics Cafe back up to the first page, we cant let this wonderfull thread dissapear while Cosmic is having a ball out in SA ;D
Robin glad you have realised anyone is welcome in here no matter what type of kneetard they are ;) I think this is a great place to pop into and find out how everone else is doing and find out about all there trials and tribulations.
Vicky glad you've come to a sort of decision about neelie I think your being wise to get back into the gym and see how she reacts before making a decision about what is a major surgery with a long rehab, no dought you will change your ming a few times as the time goes by, but remember I am always there to listen to whatever you want to vent about, you have been a great friend to me and I would hope to there for you too.
Lottie I know you have been going another bad time with the joint pain etc and really hope you can get some answeres soon, it must be so frustrating to feel things have been improving for a few weeks ,just to have things take another downward turn ending in you having to go through all this pain again ((((hugs)))) to you and if theres anything I can say or do to help please just ask.
Kris I hope your feeling better, and whatever lurgy that has befallen you improves soon ;)
Take care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on August 22, 2010, 04:10:18 AM
Vickster - sorry to hear that ACI doesn't sound like it's going to be the fix for Neelie that you've been hoping for. A major open operation, year of hard rehab and two years to see any real benefit is a huge, huge commitment to undertake. I think you're doing the right thing by making sure that there really are no other options that might possibly work before embarking on the trial. (And who knows, if you leave it long enough maybe your wretched insurance company will stop viewing the original membrane as "experimental!" Hope the increased gym works and Neelie is able to tolerate a bit more activity. =

Lottie - ack. :( I've been thinking about you a lot this week, as it didn't sound like things are going well. I think that once your knees start compromising the life you want to lead and your happiness, it's time to take whatever steps need to be taken to make things better (or at least improve the situation.) Do you have a date to see the patellar specialist yet, or is that still to come? I hope the other things that are going on aren't too bad - if there's anything we can do from this distance to help, please let me know. In the meantime I will be sending you good thoughts and hoping the knees settle down soon.

Cosmic - we all miss you!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 22, 2010, 05:20:34 PM
Thanks all for the comments.

I had a go at Neelie in the gym yesterday - 6 miles in 20 mins on bike (level 5-6, ~80 rpm), I was tired and legs were achy but no worse than usual.  A 4m36 1k row, again I was whacked but knees coped, 12 mins on XT @ level 5 @ ~125 spm again ok and 8 mins on stepper, level 4, 30 floors, 60 spm (very sweaty by this stage), legs tired but not painful per se! 

I also tried Neelie's nemesis "the terror treadmill" and had a jog for around 1m30 at a staggering 7.5kmh  :o.  Neelie not happy, but weirder I got a pain in the top of my thigh which is still there today (lottie, you are better with anatomy than me, is that a specific muscle?)  I also did some weights, including 40kg, 2 legged on the leg press (2 x 15 reps) - what I was doing before, felt rather heavy ... neelie was ok, but her sister's kneecap was grindy, that's a new one on me  :-\

Today, swimming, 60 lengths x 17m crawl, rather tired but not too sore.

Weirdly, Neelie starts to complain more just walking around, e.g. to and from the gym, kind of swollen tight feeling, medially and laterally.  I guess my gait is still off, walking has always been challenging.  I need to try a proper walk for a few miles, not just around the shops  ::)  I'll also see how she gets on sat in the office etc

Gym again tomorrow - will probably stick to bike, XT and stepper :)

Lottie - so sorry to hear things are still not going well.  To echo Snowy and Tez, if there's anything you need whatsoever, let me know :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 22, 2010, 06:24:05 PM
Top of thigh - on side you mean near hip or front or rear?

I have to say that I would be totally avoiding the treadmill. With an identified lesion that is *filled* and changes to the tibial surface opposite you really DO NOT want to place that knee under excessive impact - and even a slow jog transmits way more weight than walking. Might be OK at the time or the day after...but I ran all last summer, no pain at the time....and I have no medial cartilage left to speak of now.  :-\  Protect what you have got, no point at all trying to do it "to see if it hurts" which is what I perhaps was guilty of many times..

I've done no gym at all since Wednesday morning. I am disgusted with my lack of motivation, interest and lack of energy. I got ready to go today and ended up in the garden with a book and an attitude.  :-\

Oh well, next week can only get better, at least the forecast is dry...some pain reduction may occur...

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 22, 2010, 06:36:43 PM
Yes, side near hip :)

Understood on the treadmill, I have always been a little daft ...falling off the bike was not the cleverest thing I have ever done obviously ::)  I'd forgotten about the grade II on the tibia!

Maybe a break from the gym will help in the short term for you, get the motivation back as well as resting your sore bits.  You did say you had started to find it all a bit dull. Perhaps a swim, or even just a bit of pool walking and a nice California workout (jacuzzi, sauna, steam ;) ) will be good. 

Hope the weather stays good for peed down here earlier (I was going to mow the lawn after the swim).  On Thursday, I am meant to be watching a rounders match (as much as I like rounders, I decided the running, twisting, squatting required was not especially Neelie friendly) so I'll just go for the BBQ having made the required charity donation, although heavy rain is forecast  ::)

Take care :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on August 22, 2010, 07:44:10 PM
Good evensing all Cosmic cafe regulars I hope all the knees and any other body parts that are causing problems are feeling the love today.
Vicky just a wee thought but when you were saying that neelie was more painfull when walking than doing most other things I wondered if there could be something about your gait that is causing the pain have you ever had your physio have a look at how your walking, I know most of us knee geeks have had a gimmpy limmpy walk at some point  and just wondered if there could be some kind of left over limp that could be causing the pain, it might be worth getting him to check it out and see.
Lottie I hope that your break from the gym has helped with how your feeling, sometimes we all need to take some time out of our usual day to day activities and spoil ourselvs a bit I hope your feeling better and the weather improves for you to help with the pain.
Take care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 22, 2010, 09:58:33 PM
Not knee related at all - but Boris is limping and seems to be getting worse. I thought he'd had an awkward twist but yesterday something weird happened in the lane outside (a really quiet dead end but with some traffic from the farm at the bottom). I was inside and heard a noise like something stopping suddenly and a kind of scrape. I immediately looked out of window and saw a car and trailer pulled over beyond our house and mostly behind the wall, and by the time I went out and down the drive it had gone. I thought I heard distant cat noises, but wasn't sure. Went round back of house (its a kind of wrap around garden affair) and I called Boris (Lottie was on the bed) and I heard some cat noises, went back to front and Boris appeared from a yew tree. He was very noisy but seemed fine, and he often goes up the tree after birds etc....but this morning he has this you think the car might have hit him???? What might he have done? I am now terrified of pelvic damage - he seems perky today, rolling, stretching his legs out, chasing after Lottie but when he walks he is hobbling, like when your hip hurts not your foot being sore. A sort of up and down gait.

I sense a vet trip - but any experiences welcome.

Lottie xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 22, 2010, 10:15:42 PM
Awww poor Boris  :(  I guess he may have been knocked by the car - presume there is no flesh wound?  Definitely get him checked if he is still hobbly tomorrow.  Can you keep him in over night or will he drive you mad?  Does he get stroppy if you try to rub the leg/hip he is hobbling on - if Woo has a sore but and I touch it, he snaps or claws!  The fact he sees ok is presumably a good sign, if he was very sore, I think you'd know it. Is he eating ok?

Woo sends get well soon vibes :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on August 22, 2010, 11:49:41 PM
Lottie not to sure about all things cat related cos I'm a dog person :P but if Misty is sore anywhere she will lick and lick at the sore spot, just wondering if cats do the same and if so then you could pinpoint where her pain is. I hope poor Boris feels better soon, let us know how he is.
Take care Tez   
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on August 23, 2010, 10:17:08 AM
good morning geeks...
just checking in as i have rejoined the living (sorta) and have lots of catching up to do! seems lots has happened in the world of joints and veterinary medicine.

i have lots of reading to do clearly, just wanted to proclaim myself non-delinquent (although my lungs are still totally out to lunch! hoping i will someday begin productive coughs so i don't end up with pneumonia! wouldn't that be super fun?)

good day to all
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 23, 2010, 11:01:05 AM
Morning all.....

Good news, Boris is fine. He was still limping this morning so off we went to the vets. Usual vet lady on holiday so saw Simon (also very nice and who said "Pleased to meet you Boris" which just made me want to HUG him!) who examined all his joints, checked him over and pronounced him all tip top. No evidence of a car knock, so likely just a sprain or twist during hunting adventures. One dose of Metacam, the limp has gone, Boris is chasing bugs in the garden.  ::)  I wish our joints were so easily sorted out!!

Kris - glad you're back in the land of the living. What was it - a chesty/cough bug? Yuk. No excuses now - back to that gym!!  :P ;D

I'm off to the gym and hopefully seeing private GP this afternoon for some further advice on pain management. Had to change blood test appt as had to go to vets - vampire now drawing blood on Weds...

Hugs to all knees,

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 23, 2010, 05:05:37 PM
Poooh bah can't see private GP - unhelpful woman on reception says "she is full and won't see anyone else". Pah.

Anyway have also booked Euflexxa injection for 9th September (OS on hols until that week and I need someone who knows where to aim the large needle..). Secretary says he first injects knee with local to numb it - how blissful, a normal pain free knee for the first time in a year! I might see if he can hook up a portable drip.....just doing the left knee initially unless he'll do a very good deal on both (BOGOF?!) asd its £360 and if it does nothing I would rather have spent £360 than £740!! It also gives me a baseline of whether it significantly improves the injected one - the scientist in me is coming out, if both are done it confounds matters as they may both improve due to some other factor! I am hopeful - it apears to cushion the joint and it says it acts on inflammation - which is a big part of my problems I am sure. Weight bearing, ROM, all those things are fine - its the gnawing inflammation pain that gets me down..... ???

Boris update - the cat brain has forgotten a) to limp and b) the vet trauma. I am coming back as a cat. Off to get him some prawns as a treat...

Lottie x
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on August 23, 2010, 05:10:40 PM
Aw, yay for Boris feeling better. :) Our little invalid is also having a happy morning, though she may get less happy when work starts on the deck and we have to bring the kitties inside.

Boo for the GP being full - are you able to see her later this week? Exciting news on the injection, too, though I'm horrified by the cost. One at a time definitely sounds like the best way to get a real sense of how much they're helping the knee. Fingers crossed that it makes a difference, and gives you another option for Bob and his pal (does the other knee have a name?)

K xxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on August 23, 2010, 05:41:26 PM
Lottie, what had started as a nasty respiratory thing seems to not be done yet. Today I've slowly developed pain on breathing- webmd and my "work mom" both think this could mean pneumonia!? Gotta call and try to get in to my own GP now! I actually have a job interview in a couple of hours so I am going to have to keep it together for today anyway. Cross your fingers I don't collapse in front of these nice people.

Boo GP! I really like the idea of a totally numb knee though.... oh glorious...

If there's a way to do some kind of brain transplant so that we might forget our woes and ailments as quickly as Boris? If so sign me up.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on August 23, 2010, 05:54:43 PM
I sincerely hope it's not pneumonia - I had that in 2007 and it's nasty. The good news is that if you're able to force yourself up and about, it's more likely to be a severe bronchitis - still very unpleasant, but a quicker recovery. Will keep my fingers crossed for you - get to the GP as soon as you can just in case.

Our kitties are both curled up sleeping in sunbeams now - a cat's life really isn't such a bad one. :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 23, 2010, 06:19:44 PM
Shame the GP can't see you, managed to get in another day?

You'll have to let me know how the injections go, might be an option if neelie gets cross with the abuse I shall be hurling at her in the coming weeks  ;)

She has been fairly well behaved at work.  Bit stiff, maybe she has turned a corner (still tender where the defect is though  >:( )

Good old Boris, reckon he'll present you with a fox, a badger and the beast of bodmin this week  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on August 23, 2010, 07:41:35 PM
Kris I hope the interview goes well and I really hope its not pneumonia you have, it would appear you should be tucked up in bed and not going to work, you need to start looking after yourself.
Lottie so pleased that Boris is ok and has had a clean bill of health now he will be free to roam the wilderness [or at least the garden and surrounding areas]. Good news about the euflexxa injection I hope you get a good result from it, even though its pretty expensive, it will be worth every penny if it works.
Snowy also good newas that Mara is doing well she is a wee fighter just like you.
Vicky glad neelie has had a calmer day hope she continues to behave and give you a bit of peace.
Take care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on August 25, 2010, 01:53:04 AM
Not sure when Cosmic is back from her adventures but though I would post on here just to make sure we keep this on the first page for her to come back to.
Lottie any idea when she's due back??
I hope the rest of the cafe regulars are all doing well there have been a few dramas with Snowy's Mara, Lottie's Boris, Kris's lungs, Kays deck and the collection of knees onions and all other failing body parts this past week so heres hoping everything and everybody has a better time coming.
Take care Tez
ps Vicky I hope your not regreting you decision to brave the wet and windy Greenock in November cos now your booked I am holding you to it, and looking forward to getting together with you for some fun,if the weather stays dry enough we can get out for some nice walks if not there is always shops and and strong drink to keep us amused lol
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 25, 2010, 07:51:09 AM
Cosmic flies back tonight I believe and lands early at Heathrow Thursday morning. I've had a couple of texts from her and the facebook photos show what a great time she has had! That knee has held up well I think! I predict one VERY excited Tibetan Terrier when they all get home!!

I've missed Cosmic!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 25, 2010, 08:21:36 AM
 8) on the Cosmic return

Tez - not at all, I'll check my inoculations and passport are up to date and I've got my Glaswegian phrasebook on order from Amazon ;D

Hope all the knees and onions of the world are smiling  :D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on August 25, 2010, 04:59:08 PM
Yay for Cosmic's return!  8)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on August 25, 2010, 05:04:56 PM
yay welcome back cosmic! we've missed you (and your fb pics are jealousy-inducing of the highest power)  :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 25, 2010, 08:51:40 PM
Boooo....Boris is limping again and not happy. All curled up on a faux silk bed throw! Reckon some of my Celebrex sprinkled on prawns might help?! Or treatment a la Tez/Lottie - a tramadol and a rose wine????

Poor boy. I'm out really early for work tomorrow and up north, so I hope he is OK.  :-\ ???

On the upside, despite the fact we appear to be having the dawning of the age of Aquarius here in Warwick and the house may well be washed away by the morning the knees are being quite well behaved. Never normal, but tolerable. 7 days into the new NSAIDs..perhaps things are settling.. decent gym session today......burning reduced.........thats cursed it now, I'll be unable to walk to the bathroom tomorrow....

Bloods taken this morning, 5 great vials of it.  :o

Hope the knees and the attached people are happy tonight....

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 26, 2010, 08:23:52 AM
Lottie - The leech took 5 vials - eek!  :o

Good news on the knees feeling calmer

Hope Boris is less hobbly after his night on the denim  ;)

Welcome back Cosmic  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on August 26, 2010, 04:43:33 PM
How is Boris doing this morning? Hope the poor little mog is feeling better...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 26, 2010, 04:53:16 PM

Boris is still limping. I was up and out early this morning and he was limping about but quite sleepy...this afternoon it is our usual monsoon weather so he is back on the bed throw sleeping. Haven't seen him walk much but he did manage some prawns when I got home. I shall see what he is like when he moves about. R thinks he was moving a bit more easily this morning, but time will tel. If he is still limping tomorrow I will call the vet and see if he needs a course of NSAIDs.....him and me both!  ;D

FED UP with all our darned rain. It has been raining solidly here for over 24 hours, and the night was simply sheeting it down constantly. Drove to Manchester to see a woman with some interesting brain hardware (make you appreciate your knee woes when you see someone who has an intra cranial shunt and then a bolt put in her skull twice a year to tweak pressures for 10 days....eeeeek) and then home, some work, and my brisk 30 minute walk in said rain to lubricate knees....not too bad again today. Just waiting for the next meltdown.... ::)

Cosmic are you home? Have you got your water wings ready?!!

Hope all is well with knees of the globe

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on August 26, 2010, 05:23:07 PM
Cosmic if and when you come back to visit your cafe WELCOME HOME... from the look of your photos on FB you had a great time, but some details to make us all jealous expected.
Lottie I hope poor Boris is felling better and gets back to hunting and fishing before long.
Take care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on August 26, 2010, 08:07:34 PM
Honeeeeyyyyy, I'm Hooooome!!!!!

Wow - thank y'all for keeping Cosmic's Cafe buzzing and up there on the forum pages. I've done a quick scan read over the last 5 screens of updates - so much going on! I've just gone past 36 hours awake so having read all the entries have got to the top to realise that I can't remember much at all, so I'll revisit tomorrow with fresh eyes and mind!

Lottie, evidence certainly points to something more systemic affecting your body - either endocrine or immune. There's an interesting conundrum for your GP should he choose to accept.

Vicks - I haven't taken on board all of your options - discarded or still considered, but it looks like there is some progress in the authorisation process and on rationalising some of the options. I agree with Tez - if walking specifically causes pain then it may be worth getting a proper gait analysis (apologies if you addressed that in another post!).

Tez, Kris and Snowy - I need to make time to visit your threads to catch up. Snowy - i caught drifts of frustration on your FB postings... your comment about recovery not being linear is so true.

So what of Cosmic's Diary?

I'm through the magic twelve weeks, and am due to see my original physio (the absolute gem who thinks laterally) next week. I'm remained cautious with the range of exercises and activities (yes - even Table Mountain - a crackin' good bum shuffle at it's steepest!)...and am quite open to admit I am very tentative about increasing impact (jogging, jumping) as even mis-stepping still sends a jarring pain through my knee that would be measurable on the sad face to happy face scale of pain.
I think much of this battle is mental - it's almost a year since Knee Day - I've not perambulated faster than a brisk walk in that time. The thought of running, quite frankly, is intimidating!

The 12 hour flights to and from Cape Town weren't the most comfortable, but it was nothing that some stretching and a few dubious looking anti-dvt exercises couldn't sort.

So lovely to come home to you lot :-))) Hugs and respect to you all xxxxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on August 26, 2010, 10:12:30 PM
Cooooooooooooooooossssssssssssssssssssssssssssssmicccccc!!!  8) ;D

Welcome home!! So good to see you back here in your cafe. Well done in catching up on everything with severe sleep deprivation - get yourself to that funky new bedroom of yours and sleeeeeeeeeeeeeep! Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......

Poor Bogs (Boris-Mogs) is in hopital. I got home tonight and he hadn't moved all day and when he got up and went out, his limp was awful and the front leg was also affected. The vet fitted him in at 6.10 and agreed that X-rays were sensible next step, despite not being able to find anything on a physical exam...poor Bogs...I have this feeling I was right and the car has clipped him, its all too coincidental..... :-\  But he is in the right place and they'll get him well again I am sure.

Night all, knackered after constantly driving the UK in an aqua bubble drenched by rain.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on August 27, 2010, 02:24:39 AM
Yay! It's Cosmic! ;D

So good to see you here again, and to hear about your current progress. Will be really interested to hear what your PT says now that you're past the magic 12 weeks. It must be a huge relief to know that your graft is relatively secure in there. :)

I did get to a point of extreme frustration a few days ago, following a rotten knee spell with a lot of pain and stiffness. However I had a bit of a breakthrough three days ago and am feeling considerably better and more optimistic as a result, though still not quite willing to trust that it will last!

Kudos to you for your big adventure - it looks like you made the most of every second. :)

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on August 27, 2010, 03:31:30 AM
Cosmic welcome home!! its great to have you back with what sounds like a well behaved knee, even though you dragged i it off to a far flung destination, really pleased it survived the flight and all the walking, in what looked like a beautifull place, some of your photos on FB were amazing.
Its hard to believe your at the 12 week stage already, and from the sound of it things can ow be cranked up a bit rehab wise, with any luck you'll be back doing you flying high kick or whatever its called sooner rather than later.
Even though I am up and posting at 3.30am for once the knee is not to blame for keeping me up this time its more to do with family dramas, and the joys of being the mother of teenagers lol.
I hope you have a great sleep tonight and most of tomorrow the jet lag is a killer when you first get back from any long haul flight so rest up and take care.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on August 27, 2010, 02:36:02 PM
loooookk who it is! yay!

congrats on 12 wks, what a great milestone. You've definitely given the graft a workout these past few weeks judging by your photos. Also I think the dubious-looking exercises sometimes work the best for some reason- glad you managed the flight without incident. I understand the worry about increasing impact- it's absolutely a balancing act. (I was feeling great yesterday and knocked the resistance on the bike up a couple of pegs... suffice it to say I am feeling significantly less great today as a result! grr puffy 'n' stiff!)

hope you're resting up and adjusting to "real life" ok, you glamorous world-traveler
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 31, 2010, 01:56:15 PM
Hiya all,

Welcome back Cosmic!!  ;D  I am sure you are delighted to be home ;)  Kids back to school this week or next presumanbly?

Neelie is being pretty calm, so at the moment, I am probably not going to pursue the surgery.  Have been walking around this weekend, have been to the gym a few times (she doesn't like rowing, but will cycle, step and xt for around 45 minutes in total, and she is a bit feeble and will leg press 30kg only, used to do 40-45, hope to build up again) .  Not been out of the orad since the weird stitch incident, but the weather has improved a bit so may try to ride to work tomorrow (if I can get up early enough lol).

It sounds odd, but what I'd really like to know what I could expect in terms of best outcomes without surgery - I can't kneel, squat, jog/run comfortably and heel slides, wall slides and too much bending are uncomfortable but perhaps that is how it will always be whatever I do ???  Foot and ankle still swollen and knee swells more in gym.  I am going to give it another month, ramp up the gym, ride the bike and see. 

I guess the fibro probably won't last forever, the patella damage won't get any better.

I am still pretty confused, really just want someone to tell me what to do for the best  ::)   I think this is just how knees are once damaged!

Hope all the other knees and onions of the world also have a share of Neelie's relatively good karma
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on August 31, 2010, 04:25:18 PM
Hi All,

Back from my 12+ PT appointment having changed back to my super-duper NHS PT. She took me through some new exercises, picked up on the fact that I felt frustrated and held back, noted how poor my control is at the last few degrees towards straightening and confirmed that the quads and hamstrings aren't firing in the correct sequence to stabilise my knee - which is possibly why any jarring/impact still hurts. Lots of trampette work: almost jogging, two footed jumping and stopping dead, balancing with tiny dips, and side ways foot-to-foot movement along the room- ensuring hips and feet are kept square to the direction of movement (it was much harder than it sounds!).

I checked if it was OK for me to get back on my bike (an official OK is always wise I feel).... she said "what are you now...about 6 weeks?".... feeling like I was back on the hierarchy of the pregnancy weekly countdown, I chortled and told her I was past 12 weeks - she looked rather taken aback, gave me some more exercises which she assessed as I was doing them, and then booked me in for a weeks time (my last appointment was 6 weeks ago). Something tells me that I'm not quite where I should be (which is cool in a way as it confirms my suspicions!).

So out on the bike in a minute, just a local try out, and I need to acquire a trampette.... and a firm but squishy foam ball to put between my knees as my bad one is still collapsing inwards (need to improve glut control). I have no idea where this new piece of kit is going to live!

I'm still feeling really unsure about how the old knee is supposed to be and which pain is "ouch-pain-stop!" and which is "ouch-oversensitised-nerve-get-over-it"..... it's like feeling around the dark with mittens on when you're not even sure what you're looking for or whether you are in the right place!

And I'm the FATTEST that I've been in 10 years  >:( :'( :-\ :-[ ::) :( :o... That one extra kg makes the difference. The 6kg club is now becoming a 12kg club of get back to my lightest weight. Time to get serious :D didn't help that the PT had me bouncing on a trampette and watching myself in a full length mirror - it was like some sick psychological torture!

Ele goes back to school on Thursday, Cam on Monday. I love having them (and their hoards of friends) around, and really miss the chilled holiday times wen the school routine starts again.

I've managed to find a maths tutor for Ele, she's in the top set but struggled last year despite the best efforts of the teacher (she related really well with the previous teacher, so the difference was even more noticeable) .... he's an ex-NASA mathematician who has an equation named after him.. which like he says, is great but only a handful of people in the world will ever need it. So he decided to put his maths prowess into general circulation.... what really clinched it for me though is that he is a keen electric guitar player and writes songs.... as well as being a marathon runner frustrated by injury! He'll fit in fine here  ;D LoL.

Vicks - I think the bottom line is that there are no guarantees. All your surgeons can make are recommendations based on their knowledge and experience. They all have their "campaigns". Like you say - I just think sometimes this is how knees are once they've been damaged - they evolve!!!

At least with the more conservative option the ramifications are less extreme!

Time to blow the cobwebs off the bike  ;D

Sunny times  :-*
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on August 31, 2010, 04:46:50 PM
I know and I think that's what's so damn frustrating about all of this  :(
My weight loss is going horribly too - my sweet tooth is back with a vengeance especially.  Just had a heavy weekend of lots of eating out and beer...I am in an 8kg club I reckon...wanna join?
Off to gym again today...

Good to hear the PT went okay and that you have some stuff to focus on

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: ouch09 on September 01, 2010, 12:03:30 AM
Welcome back Cosmic !

Yes, I remember having that trepidation re jogging and jarring the knee during my post-injury rehab. I think the trampette work should help with that. I needed my physio to monitor me on the treadmill and correct me - it turned out I wasn't using my glutes or abs. I never even knew that you needed to use your glutes or abs to run ...  :o ;D This time round my physio has already told me that my glutes are weak and he's getting me to work them, e.g. with bridges.

Let us know how your physio progresses. By the way, you must be way more than 12 weeks, since I'm 10 weeks (I'm not showing yet  ;)), and you had your op about a month before me.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on September 01, 2010, 11:45:48 PM
I was 11 weeks when I flew to SA on 5th august so I'm around 15 weeks (easier to count in months now...heading 4 months). The PT was due to be my 12 week appointment but I had to change it because of our holiday ... hence 12+ weeks LoL!

As for showing - I reckon I look about 4 months gone at the  mo  :-\.

Thanks for the heads up on the jarring - like you say, hopefully the trampette will sort my mis-firing out! So much of this knee stuff is in the brain.... I never thought I'd be so.... afraid... to do stuff!!

I lost out on a trampette for 99p on eBay - a suspicious bidder jumped in at the last few seconds - so I've reserved one from Argos to collect tomorrow - they've got Reebok ones at 40% off ... and only had one left locally. I've also visited a local hotel pool, small, 1.3m deep all the way, very quiet (almost deserted) and lots of windows onto the hotel gardens. Found my cossie and will take the plunge tomorrow when Ele is at school.

Sleep tightly knee peeps.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on September 02, 2010, 01:53:21 AM
Interesting that you comment on the fear of doing stuff, even though theoretically you're able to now. I was just reading an interesting study that found that ACLr patients had a tendency to strongly underestimate their own ability to participate successfully in activities, and that perceived weakness when returning to sport is often psychological rather than physical:

Very exciting news about the bike. How did the first ride feel? Was it strange? How did the knee feel afterwards? My bike and I are just back from a trundle around the UBC loop; highly recommended on a beautiful sunny evening.

Sorry that things aren't quite on track for this point, but it sounds like your PT has it well in hand. Are you planning to see her more regularly for a bit?

Good luck with the big plunge tomorrow!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on September 03, 2010, 08:23:07 PM
Cosmic well done on the bike ride it must have felt pretty good to be back to doing something after such a long time, I wonder how many people are exactly where they should be when it comes to acl rehab, so I wouldnt worry about that I'm glad your physio has you going back a it quicker this time 6 weeks sounds pretty long inbetween appointments.
Good news on the purchase of the trampett I was thinking of getting one but I would struggle to find a space for it in a house that is filling up with all sorts of fitness equipment [belonging to me] and guitars and amps[belonging to Steph] never mind the fact there are usually 4 or 5 of Stephs friends plus their guitars cluttering up every available space, poor Conor has been relegated to the smallest bedroom in the house because he dosen't have a lot of stuff, apart from his xbox, laptop and phone!!! all things that dont take up much space, I do feel sorry for him as he is also the biggest member of the family at 6ft 5, but unless we add on as extension there aint much I can do...anyway why I have started to talk about the size of my house I'm not sure cos it aint got nothing to do with knees ;D ::)
Take care Tez 
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on September 03, 2010, 11:07:59 PM
Hey Tez  -

You are so right about PT and schedules of recovery - we all surge ahead and lag behind the "text book" recovery at certain times.... I guess I was just feeling that I wasn't where I could have or should have been at this point in rehab.... and yes - 6 weeks between appointments was too long.... the appointment next week and the specific targeted exercises have given me a new focus and a new mindset. If you are offered appointments 6 weeks apart I would recommend requesting a smaller interval.

So, out on the bike again today - extended the circuit I did yesterday and added some hills (some gentle and long, some a little more immediate) - managed to get to the shoreline of Poole Harbour - watched the view for a bit over a roll and a cup of tea, and rode home.

It feels so good.

The knee held up well, a few grumbles on the way home, but nothing unusual or disturbing.

The trampette .... I so know where you are coming from with the guitars, amps, friends in varying quantities.... I think I'll have to move into the garage!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on September 04, 2010, 11:43:30 AM
Hey Cosmic!!

Just catching up with the cafe diary - so glad to hear that you're back on the bike, That cycle to the view over Poole Harbour is quite a decent slog if it is where I am thinking we also viewed it? I am quite worried who you had a roll with though, you must stop picking up strange people...I know that NT cafe man was tempting but he was mine so just back off.... :P

I think the fact you've now got some new exercises, some decent direction and some goals will bring the rehab back into a more positive feeling vibe. Rehab isn't linear I guess, and everyone goes differently and when you think of what you had going on after the ACL rupture with the stump, further scope, extension etc...well, it isn't going to be a standard progressiong. But then, who is ever standard as the whole concept of having ripped your ACL means you've gone through some trauma. You'll get just as far as you possibly can I know. The trampette sounds scary. I do get Bob onto the BOSU regularly but the prospect of bouncing him on an uneven surface....oooh he wobbles internally at the mere thought......

A quick Lottie update - I see my (very nice but rather useless) GP on Monday morning for my blood results and to discuss how the Celebrex has been working. I think its calmed down the general inflammation but I am worried about the nasty side effects i read about and fear dropping down dead of a heart attack but with painless knees. I need him to check blood pressure too, and make sure all is OK. I also have my Euflexxa jab into Bob on Thursday in London. Eeeeek. I am half torn between trying to get him to do both knees for a cheaper fee, but I then won't know what is working. But, as R says, if the knees feel better then thats most important. Wory about what worked when they hurt again! Some people seem to report good results with these jabs and others nothing, so hopefully I'll be a lucky one. If it means I can drop the meds out then I'll be happy. I have started indoor biking again, it started to really annoy Bob so I've been just on the ARC trainer for about 2 months but have been cranking back onto longer rides indoors with moderate resistance so no hills to push up. So far so good and better than terminal boredom on the arc trainer every darned time! perhaps I might even manage a Spin class to see how they cope, my friend is an instructir for many of the classes at my gym so she will watch out for me and won't make me do owt daft.....the onion appears to have setled beyond all expectation s long as I wear decent shoes and wiggle it as much as possible......hurrah! It will need doing but hopefully not for some time!

Anyway, my floors are drying after the weekend mop, I hope everyone is having a decent time and enjoying some sunshine. Tez - not long til Spain now, woohoo!!!

Kris - hope you haven't fallen off any more heels this week.... :P

Hugs to all,

Lottie xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on September 08, 2010, 11:40:51 AM
Hi all

Just a quick update to say that the blood tests were all clear apart from a borderline iron level which the GP didn't seem worried about but said I could eat some more liver etc or take some supplements. It isn't clinically "low" but is borderline, as it was last year. GP quite happy for me to stay on the celebrex as required - lowest dose possible is ideal, but better to have 100mg of that a day which helps than massive ongoing ibuprofen which does very little.

So, I think I'm relieved really as I didn't want anything like rheumatoid arthritis as although they can treat it to some degree, it is progressive and wouldn't have altered the damage already done to my knees. So, it is plain old early OA and I now need to do everything I can to keep the knees as functional as possible. Perhaps they'll stay like this until I am 75 now - rapid degeneration and years of plateau!

Euflexxa injection tomorrow. Not relishing that, but hoping it might lubricate things. Knees have been quite calm what with the Celebrex and steady exercising. Left problem one is a bit achy today but I've been hitting more bike plus cross trainer each gym session so its a bit sore rather than flared I think. I am sure my patella tendon gets annoyed, as does the ITB insertion on the tibia, rather than it just being "arthritis". I've been taught some new stretching with my band and breathing and lowering my leg at right angles outwards, very elegant but boy it loosens the hammies.....48 hours enforced rest after the jab, YAWN.

Hope everyone is well,

Lottie xxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on September 08, 2010, 01:00:54 PM
Lottie so pleased that the doc didnt find any nastys lurking, and that what problems you have you are already working towards making as good as possible :D it must be a relief!!!!!
Good luck with the Euflexxa jab tomorrow and much as i know it wont be easy for you!! do what your told and take it easy afterwards, and with any luck you will be skipping around before you know it ;D
Cosmic how goes things with you what about the trampett did you get one and have you beed bouncing good style on it?????
I guess that's your kids back at school so you will have more time to work on your rehab, and before you know it you're physio will be praising you for how advanced you are..
Take care all..
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on September 08, 2010, 09:47:21 PM
All the best Lottie for the jab, I am sure it'll be a success and Bob will love being lubricated...if not, there's always tequila!!  :o  Although not to wash down the Celebrex!


It's Neelie's birthday tomorrow, it'll be a year exactly since that fateful morning where the bike and me parted company and my left knee (as well as hands, right elbow and right leg) became overly familiar with a concrete cycle lane...'s been a LONG LONG year, about 15 trips to the physio, about 12 x OS appointments with 2 surgeons, 2 MRIs, 2 Xrays, a trip to the leech for blood tests not to mention the arthroscopy!  My first experience of using crutches (or the twigs as they are affectionately known), horrid compression stockings, first icing of a joint not to mention SLRs, wallsides, heel slides etc (obviously not as many as Snowy though lol). 

Oh and not to mention, paper pants!  8)

I had never heard of a meniscus, articular cartilage, an osteochondral defect and I didn't know I had wear and tear damage on the back of my patella!

I have decided it's time to stop focusing on a knee that is recovering, and get on with my life and career again.  I even managed to "run" a little bit for a train today (as I am carless :( )

It has also been a strangely good one meeting all you lovely knee geeks around the world, either virtually or in person! I've not had balloons for my birthday for a very long time and never a butterfly shaped multi-coloured cake :D

Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday dear Neelie, Happy Birthday to you...

Now bugger off and leave me in peace (at least for a few years) ;)

Take care all and look after those joints!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on September 08, 2010, 11:26:20 PM
Vicky your a star.... and just want to wish neelie a happy 1st I will join you in wishing for a nice well behaved knee with no pain and no stiffness resulting in no neelie, just 2 normal perfectly well behaved knees... ;D ;D
Take care Tez

ps remember you promised no bike on the first aniversary of your header off it ;) ::) :P
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on September 09, 2010, 11:40:42 AM
hey gals- and a very happy birthday to Neelie! These stupid joints do certainly change the course of things... but on the bright side you learn a whole bunch of new anatomy stuff (everyday's a school day!) and get to talk to strangers on the internet  ;) so, the good with the bad!

Lottie, glad to hear that the jab didn't reveal you to be a rheumatoid!  :D It seems you always get assigned the "elegant" stretches, don't you? I thought of you and your "porny" roller stretches yesterday while I was doing my post-workout foam activities.... I was going along on my merry way for quite some time before I realized I had my ass straight up in the air, facing the gym full of patrons of course  ::)

No worries on the heel front because I am back in flats, tearing up all of the bottoms of my pants once again!! Still not quite back to where I was before the fall, but I haven't been taking any NSAIDs so I think I probably have some minor lingering inflammation going on. Overall I am very dull and can't complain
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on September 09, 2010, 02:23:56 PM
Kris just a wee note to say by no strech of the imagination could anybody ever call you dull ;D ::) :P
So glad your tumble didnt't  cause too much damage but hope  the lesson has been learned that heels are evil and they dont really make your legs look longer or make you look taller or slimmer :'(
Take care Tez   
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on September 09, 2010, 05:36:14 PM
Well, Bob is back from his day out in London having his Euflexxa jab (car, train, taxi, taxi, train, car) ably assisted by husband who fed me lunch and a white wine spritzer afterwards.

The jab is easy - the local is probably more painful initially as it has to go into the joint space, behind the patella. "Relax" says OS - hmmmm.......but in 3 seconds the knee is numb and you just feel some slight pressure. I didn't even feel the needle for the Euflexxa go in or out nor the three vials of gunk that he then injected..... Knee feels fine now I'm home, bit sore where the injection went in, but otherwise same as ever. The 3 hours of numbness were fabulous! I could have run a sprint!! On the plus side too i spent an hour with Mr Evans, the OS at London Bridge. I originally saw him last year prior to the Cartifill explorations and he recommended a scope to MFX and chondro the femur and patella. I wasn't keen and stand by the decision to see how things go with conservative treatment, which he agreed with today seeing as things have probably improved and certainly have not worsened. He did say again that a TKR or PFJR is in my future, and no one really knows if that is 2, 5, 10 or 20 years away. It depends how I look after what I have, how my knee reacts to making new stuff to fill in the gaps (fibro I assume) and how general ageing progresses. He again recommended glucosamine and chondroitin so I'll need to go back to that, he didn't have an issue with Celebrex so long as not over using it, and I picked his brains a bit about the whole TKR procedure, malaligned kneecaps, cartilage repair options, etc etc. In honesty I now agree with what he says - things like MACI etc may be great for a single trauma, but wear and tear in several areas....well, its new parts in reality when the time comes. Unless something dramatic develops in the next few years, which of course it may do. Plus, he said there is a BIG correlation between going into a TKR with a strong, stable, fully moveable knee that then gets a great outcome than one thats been through numerous attempts to try and patch gaps up. He quoted a mega martial arts chap who bilateral TKR at the age of 65, he is now back to FULL martial arts and was walking out of hospital 48 hours post op. Mind over matter too!!

Anyway, we bonded as he stabbed Bob as I said Botox was much worse and he red facedly agreed and told me he too succumbed to Botox on his frown crease above his nose (like me) - and he is SO not George Clooney!! Any OS who admits to vanity can chop Bob when the time is right.

So, lets see what the Euflexxa does. Maximum benefit probably felt after......2-3 months!!!

Happy Birthday to Neelie, shame its not been the best birthday for her in honesty.... :-\ :'(

Fingers and onions crossed for positive outcomes all round....

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on September 10, 2010, 12:04:38 PM
Bob feels like he has a giant bee sting on his lateral patella.  :-\

Apart from that he feels exactly the same....I am expecting that in 2 months he is as fluid as Anne Widdicombe will be on Strictly Come Dancing.... ::)

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on September 12, 2010, 12:42:12 AM
Lottie - glad to hear that the jab went well. How is Bob feeling now? Synvisc (which I think is fairly similar to Euflexxa) has been mentioned as an option for me, so I'm very curious to hear how much difference it makes to the pain.

Too bad that there are really no other options for the longer term apart from bionic bits. As the doc says, though, better to go in with a knee in good shape than a knee that's been through attempted repairs to no avail. It does seem to make a really big difference to the outcome from the TKR stories that I've heard.

How are the onions doing these days?

Vicks - belated happy birthday to Neelie. It's amazing how fast the time goes - and how much of it is consumed by everything that goes with an injured knee. I think your new philosophy is a very good one; I hope that Neelie will continue to make progress, even if it's slow. Has your car been restored to health and returned to you yet? (I heard via FB that it was having woes.)

Hope everyone else is doing well. We're still a very sad household here, so we're just trying to stay busy and distracted and lavish as much love and attention as possible on poor lonely Laya.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: ouch09 on September 13, 2010, 01:52:58 AM
Lottie - glad to hear that your Euflexxa "big prick" wasn't too painful and hope that Bob will feel better soon. As fluid as Anne Widdicombe eh ? Don't get your hopes up. You should be so lucky, lucky, lucky, lucky !  ;)

Vickster - happy birhtday to Neelie and hope she gets better via the conservative route. I know what you mean, just over a year ago, I didn't know what a meniscus, patella tendon, or even ACL was. I had heard that professional footballers injured their "cruciate ligament" but had no idea where in the leg it was.


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on September 13, 2010, 08:55:57 AM
Hiya Peeps,

So Tez off in Spain for some R&R ... my Spanish mother -in-law has just come back from her family near Gibraltar and it was 44o, so it should be nice and roasty toasty for the knee rehab!

Vicks - I hope you got your car sorted, what a nightmare  :(  >:(  :'(

Lottie - glad Bob didn't pop and go whizzing round the room when you were needled - it'll be interesting to see what difference it makes.

My news? Stumps is one year old today (yay, more birthday cake!).

Last week (on PTs suggestion) I returned to the badminton courts on our "social" evening.

It was very strange - my game partners were very understanding as some shots I just couldn't reach and would stand stuck in place and shout "Nope" "Can't" "Yours" or just laugh (only once I felt tears of frustration pricking when one opponent insisted on playing to my weakness, serving long and dropping my return short and to my right where I struggle to reach ... deep breath, and relax.....).

The knee held up remarkably well, just swelled up somewhat afterwards ... and I had to retire just into game 3 with a cracking muscle cramp down my hamstring and around my calf (I am prone to cramp - I think all my muscles were working overtime to protect the joint) ... but OH! the feeling of elation at just being on court again.

I played again last night. The great thing is that playing the game takes the focus off the knee.

When I'm exercising for rehab it's all about the knee. When I'm playing sport it's not.

I'm very aware that it has limitations (can't run backwards safely, have limits in changing direction and acceleration) but inadvertently I find myself doing manoeuvres that I would normally avoid. Of course the worry is that one of those manoeuvres causes a re-injury, but as we all know - it can happen at anytime, anyplace doing the most innocuous activity (high heels and stairs LoL!).

What still surprises me is the variation in advice (although by now it really shouldn't). My last mediocre NHS PT suggested that playing badminton would be unwise because of the unpredictable and sudden turns, acceleration and deceleration.... that along with squash it is one of the worst knee sports.
Current PT (who I would trust with my life) just said "why not play? At 4.5 months post ACLr it should be fine!"... but advised staying away from the KB and TKD for a few more months!

As for the weight - I'm using a free online package to log what I eat and drink, and my activity. It then analyses you data and calculates nutritional value (not just calories but carbs, protein, fats, vit A,C, cholesterol, etc etc), it works out your calorie intake vs expenditure and graphs everything over a time period. I know it will never be 100% accurate but it's a useful exercise.

Anyway - I'm beginning to feel more like me. Sometimes it's only when you look back you see where you've been.

Happy Monday y'all - and much love and respect for all the times you've been there for me over the last year!


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on September 13, 2010, 03:47:24 PM
Yay Cosmic - Happy Birthday to Stumps!!!!  ;D 8) A whole year - where does time go? Congrats on the badminton, excellent achievement and so what if you can't do all you used to just at the moment. You will do, in time. Running backwards is over rated anyway, always best to see what you are running into.... ::) Imagine playing badminton this time after the injury - and poo bah to the numpty serving to your weakness. I'll kick him/her in the shins then karate chop their kneecap so they get a glimpse of life AK (after knee).

Good idea on the logging of food and activity. When I shed 2 stone the food log and balance of activity made it really work. It made me look at what I ate, when, how much different nutritional value I was getting and then when my trainer used to circle my "cheats" I felt berated and gradually the cheats vanished until I hit my goal weight. Keep up the good work!  :P

Bob liked his jab far more than expected and didn't make a "ppfffffff" noise and fly off round the room. OS did say he was really "creaky" through the needle, yukkity yuk poor Bob he has such poor joint space behind the kneecap! So far he feels about the same, but I am expecting slow and gradual improvement if anything. Psychologically it has been a big boost. Yesterday we went to Cliveden and thought we'd hire a boat on the Thames. When we got there it sais 30 minute walk down to river and "steep walk" back up. I kind of fretted but then mentally slapped myself, and off we went. We typically missed the main route down and ended up clamering over a stile and ladder, then slithering down an embankment onto some kind of stages before meeting the main route down.  ::)  That bit was not fun, I am fearful of both the pain on the kneecaps when I tackle steep descents and the knee giving out. Coming up though - we found the proper route and its 172 steps of those long type that climb up a hill - Bob and onions made it, fast pace, non stop - not out of breath. I was SO happy! R was puffed after a third and got up to the top about 5 minutes behind me! Hapy days! Little achievments, but they make you feel so normal. I felt like i wanted to run up them! (Nope, Bob would have protested!) So, yesterday we dod quite a bit of walking about, steps and then I did an hour in gym on way home as R watched footie in sports bar and the knees felt OK. Iced as usual in the evening, but OK. Good ole Bob - think I'll get the other one done too.  ;D

Kris - has the kneetard settled down?

Anyway, just back from Warrington and work to do...hope all is good with things around the world...

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on September 13, 2010, 05:03:15 PM
Hey ladies and joints... including you birthday knees!

I like the suggestion of a food log but am also in major denial about my grease, carbs and beer habits. Grrrr...

Kneetard is a bit better. Managed a decent workout on Saturday, so now just feeling the effects of that. I get the impression that I am going to continue to be sore after activity no matter what precautions I take. It is definitely getting better over time, just not out of the woods yet.

Cosmic, it seems that "limitations" do show themselves often and in the funniest ways... though I agree there's no good reason to run backward, EVER! Over the weekend, I dropped a pendant off a necklace and had to go searching for it in the carpet... it made me fully aware that I still can't kneel (and made my jewelry search that much harder.)

Not much to report here. I got some extremely bad news last week about my mom's health (which I am not even ready to type yet) and I am just trying to deal with life and not be a basketcase.

hugs to all
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on September 13, 2010, 07:21:58 PM

Thanks for all the birthday wishes for Neelie!  ;D  She does seem to have had her epiphany (crosses fingers and toes and touches wood).  Still swollen (my new jeans feel tighter around Neelie than her sister), and the defect area still feels tender when I prod it (doh don't then, but generally she feels ok.  I am able to cycle in the gym for 20 minutes (doesn't feel especially fluid but not so painful that I have to stop), I can use the stepper for 12-15 minutes and I am even back walking on the treadmill (did 20 minutes at about 5.8km/h increasing the incline up to 10% for a few minutes).  I can do 15 minutes on the XT but zzzz and my feet go to sleep  ::)

Car - very unhappy feared the gearbox is dead and needs replacing...very scary amount of £££££s  :'(  It is stuck at the garage awaiting a decision.  I have taken some legal advice as I haven't had it long (thanks Lottie ;) ) and am awaiting an answer from a) the manufacturer and b) the garage I bought it from.  Need to chase all tomorrow, just difficult when at work (and I'm a bit of a coward, not keen on confrontation)!

Pretty miserable about it all right now.  Carless.  Luckily, I can get to work by train and my brother is close and can take me shopping and there's always the bike  :o although the weather is miserable and I am not inclined to ride in the rain for obvious reasons  :-\

At least, the knee is behaving...

Best wishes to all the joints and owners worldwide :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on September 17, 2010, 10:53:00 PM
Couldn't resist looks like we'll have to toss a coin to decide where to host the Canadian Knee Geeks get-together. Snowy's Lounge, or the Cosmic Cafe. Yep, Vancouver has both.  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on September 20, 2010, 04:35:37 PM
Good afternoon all you cosmic cafe regulars I hope all is well with you  :D I am back from a wonderfull week away with the bestest friends in the world and I have had a ball, I feel nice and chilled out and the knee feels pretty good plus I now feel  I'm ready to get back to work come Friday.
Cosmic happy kneeday and congrats on the whole getting back into badmington thing, it must be a nice feeling to get back into something you enjoy doing, looks like it wont be long till your back at your TKD and then I'm pretty sure any extra weight still hanging around will disapear pretty quickly.
Lottie also good news that your injuection seems to be helping I really hope it just gets better and better, how long should it last for and are you planning on having the second knee done?
Kris so sorry to hear about your Mums health, its so hard when a family member's going through any health problem but its especially hard when its your Mum so sending you a hug from Scotland ((((hugs)))).
Vicky you sound like your doing a bit better neelie wise though the whole car thing is a total nightmare, any idea when you will be getting it back? also I hope the snotfest you have been experiencing has improved and your feeling better.
Snowy looks like we will now need to have 2 get-together's  one in snowys lounge and one in cosmics cafe it wouldnt be right to leave either place out  ;)
Take care all Tez       
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on September 20, 2010, 06:55:15 PM
Hi all!

Tez, welcome home! SO glad you had a chilled week away with plenty of wine and sangria and giggles from the sound of it! I bet windy chilly Scotland is a bit of a shock.......but great news that the knee held up pretty well too. Take it steady back at work, what hours are you going to be doing at first?
Snowy - I like the fact we have a choice of venues for coffee and cake. Cosmic will want to go in both, she loves a bit of cake  ;)
Kris - I am hoping things are OK for you. I don't want to ptry at all but we're all thinking of you. Family bad health news is always the worst, so I'm sending healing hugs across the waters.
Vicks - fingers crossed the car will soon be mended! Neelie sounds like Bob at the moment - transient ouchie moments, these darned defects. Thing is, as various OSs have said to us....whats the guarantee that they'll be fixed with a variant of stabbing/chopping/grafting......pah. New cartilage should be available at Waitrose.
Cosmic, have you stayed stuck in that splits pose as you've been very quiet on here..... ;)

Me - well, the knees are OK. Not too bad at all. The injection hasn't caused a flare and maybe, just maybe, the knee feels a little more cushioned. Its tough to tell as I know the Celebrex has really helped with the day to day aches and burning, so I guess if i stop that I will know if the injected knee feels better. I mowed the lawn over the weekend, something I wouldn't have attempted a month ago. I also decided today to see how the knees coped with a wee bit of impact work and spent a few minutes at home doing star jumps, burpees and some moutain climbers. Hmmm. I couldn't manage a squat thrust and the burpees hurt as they involve a semi squat thrust. The star jumps were fine at the time but the knees felt a bit twitchy after. I don't want to do impact work per se, but if I know they'll cope with a few minutes without dying then thats a positive for me. Its a bit daft really - a few weeks back I wanted not to wake up in pain and be able to walk without burning. That reduces and so I decide to shift the goal posts! The onion hated the star jumps, but thats expected! Need to make sure got proper Mizuno trainers on, they absorb more foot movement. Overall i think i should stick to the bike, cross trainer, weights and floor work! I've always liked abs work thankfully!!  :P

Much love to all knees around the world...

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on September 22, 2010, 11:29:26 AM
Hi ladies and joints

Lottie, glad to hear you are flare-free! Also happy to see that Tez's survived vacation and Snowy's is coming back from the infection. You gals are warriors!

Kneetard is still struggling without the glucosamine... I either need to order some of the Litozin? lottie suggested today or start taking fish oil perhaps. I've about had it with being all creaked out.

Well the very bad news is that my mom has been diagnosed with lung cancer (non-small cell squamous.) The belief is stage 3 or 4, no surgical options available, but we should be getting some info on a treatment plan from the oncologist today. Somehow despite years of treatment for COPD they missed this... I am trying to be tough for now but I have to admit I am not very good at it. She's not sure how much treatment she will accept yet, it all depends on the prognosis... if the odds are as bad as we think they are, she doesn't want to be sick from treatment for no reason. So I have to start planning some trips south to Atlanta to see her- first one should be soon so I can see her before she's sick and then God knows what after that. It's all so sad, she's only 64 but that's what smoking your whole life will do. I have to believe that God has a plan for all of us but I am basically shattered at the thought of life without my very best friend in this world, not giving her any grandchildren yet, etc.

Appreciate your prayers, healing thoughts, positivity and perhaps recommendations for psychotropic medications?

later gals
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on September 22, 2010, 01:18:44 PM
Kris (((((hugs)))))) so so sorry about the news of your Mums illness, my heart goes out to you, Its going to be hard for you especially as she lives a distance from you and you wont get to see her as often as you would like, but from the sound of the way you speak about your Mum I can tell you will be there with her every step of the way, even when you cant spend time with her, and I'm pretty sure the fact that she will know that you are there for her will make her feel so much better.
Your a good daughter and that's all you need to be for her, sending loads of healing thought and good wishes to you both.
Take care Tez

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on September 22, 2010, 03:34:27 PM
Oh Kris...that's desperately sad news. I am so sorry to hear that you and your family have to deal with such an awful diagnosis, and my heart goes out to you all. I don't know if this is any help, but rather than think about the things you haven't been able to do with her maybe you can focus on the things that you have done and are still able to do. At least you will be able to treasure the time you have left, though I know that doesn't soften the blow at all or make it any easier to bear.

Sending good thoughts, much love, and strength to you all.

Kay xxxx

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on September 22, 2010, 07:05:05 PM
Oh Kris, what sad news. I am sending you hugs and will be thinking of you and your family over the next weeks. I hope your Mum can at least be comfortable and be able to enjoy some fun with you and the family. As Snowy said, it is desperately hard not to think of what you are never going to have but trying to think of what you have with her now and all the love you've shared since you were born is a big thing to also focus on. Losing a parent is really hard. I lost my Dad 7 years ago. My Mum and I are pretty close and I can't imagine what will happen when her time comes. But, she will always be your Mum even if she isn't here in body. Mums are for ever.

I'm so sorry to have read this news. Big hugs,

Lottie xxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on September 23, 2010, 10:24:03 AM
Thanks for all of your kind words and thoughts. Still not getting much great info as a brain scan and full body imaging are still needed to see the extent of what she is dealing with here. Trying to bring the positivity and allowing myself to flip out as needed. The hard thing is definitely slapping a happy face on for the world, I am so exhausted at the end of the work day from just getting through it, it's crazy!

Hope you all are having a great day and I am about to make the diary rounds now.  :) Kneetard still flippin' HURTS (thanks severe weather) but I ordered the litoZin yesterday so hopefully relief is on its way! Going to try to manage a long bike ride at the gym today because I've been majorly slacking on that front, but we'll see if the 'tard cooperates. The temper on him!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on September 23, 2010, 07:01:38 PM
Hiya Kris

It took about 10 days or so before I felt the Litozin made a difference so hang in with it. I haven't started guzzling the Flexeze yet - everytime I think I must start I open a beer or have a wine instead.... ::) 

Hope the scans etc on your Mum give you all a clearer picture of what is going on. Don't be afraid to cry and get mad. (although maybe not right at your desk....).

Thinking of you

Lottie xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on September 27, 2010, 08:52:47 PM
Hi all.....

Just a short update.....

Cosmic and I created havoc in Winchester last week; muchos coffee, giggling, gossip, lunch and bad behaviour in the cathedral with the Antiques Roadshow....(No, they don't value old worn out knees - we did ask... :P)

The Euflexxa injection - the jury is still out. Both knees feel pretty decent at the moment. The onion had a rough few days last week but I think it was not aided by 100 push ups, planks on a BOSU and Power Plate and generally using it a lot (plus plenty of red wine!). Its settled down today, I have strapped it with an old wrist support (looks weird) to try and offload the joint as Dr ToryBoyChopper said thats the key when it flares. Unlike knees, arthritic big toe joints need to stop being flexed for a bit! If the injection has done anything I would say that after training or if I catch the lesions the wrong way then it settles a bit quicker than it used to. Perhaps it is generall more cushioned. OS did say peak effect at around 6 weeks so I've got 3 more to go.....

I have today signed up for and paid for my Level 3 Personal Trainer certificate. I have 10 weeks home study then 3 weekend workshops from December to February including an exam and a practical. I am both scared (of failing and of the knees holding me back) but very excited. In reality there is little I cannot do for the purpose of the course apart from a leg extension on the machine and a box jump/hard plyometrics. I estimate such things will be about 0.01% of the course so....its time to get busy!! I have a LOT of ideas for when I am qualified and am very glad I have decided to go for it. I've even got a business name.  ;)

Hope everyone is doing OK. Kris - how are you doing and your Mum coping? Sending thoughts.

Snowy - those kittens are SO cute. I am jealous!!!

Tez - what a horrible week you've had. I know things will be tough but a big hug and hang in there.

Cosmic - I know you're fine, mad and dandy. And probably in Shakeaway or Shakealot or whatever it was called. Cosmic and I had a race up Debenhams stairs to the toilets last week. I say a race.......ha ha ha ha  :P 8)

Hugs to all

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on September 29, 2010, 09:22:09 PM
Evening all I hope everyone is doing ok out there is dodgy knee land.
Lottie excelent new on the personal training cetificate, is this the last part of the training? I think you will make an excellent personal trainer as your knowladge on all sorts of health and fittnes things is exceptional, just wish you stayed up here and you could get me into some kind of decent shape for turning 50 next year.
Kris I hope by know you have had all the diiferent test results on your Mums illness and you have a better idea of what your dealing with, have you managed to organise a visit with her soon, I hope so cos it will make you both feel so much better just being able to spend some time together.
Take care Tez 
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on September 29, 2010, 10:59:46 PM
Hey all at the sleepy corner of Cosmic's Cafe...

Kris - so sad to hear about your Mum. There's nothing really I can say to help, most of it you will have thought through for yourself..... mainly to enjoy then time you do have together, and never underestimate how much difference a little touch can make. I don't know if you know but we saw my Step-Mum through 3.5 years of bone cancer to her passing last summer. There were some incredibly sad and scary moments, but also some incredibly poignant ones which I doubt we would have had otherwise. I hope that the diagnoses are giving you more facts to work with. Wishing you strength and

Snowy - wow Frank is master of the stairs! Good to see you back on top and so lovely to watch the kittens lives unfolding in your flat.

Lottie - congrats on your PT course. You can beast my sorry backside from afar - I'm happy to be a guinea pig (better than a mouse - may end up in a Hovis loaf!!!)

Vicks - hope young Neelie is settled and that the jalopy is imminently returning in a fully restored state!

Tez - so sorry to catch up with your news about Gordon. I'm glad you all decided to open the salon, I'm sure it's what he would have wanted, and it probably was therapeutic for you all to be together and immersed in your work. Huge respect to you for picking up his Mum from the airport. Gestures like that are priceless. I know it must have been very difficult for you. xx

Sooo ... the diary....

Week 19

So my schedule now includes social badminton on Friday and Sunday, and TKD and KB on Mondays and Wednesdays ... that leaves Tuesday evening for drumming and jamming with Laurie-the-surfer-dude-instructor-from-the-gym-who-is-young-enough-to-be-my-son, Thursday for swimming between taxi-ing Cam to-and-from his band practice and Saturday for music lessons and gig practice. I'm walking between 3 and10 miles each day, supplementing shorter walks with cycle rides of up to 20 miles. Life is returning to it's pre-knee hecticful disarray :-)). I almost feel like I'm me again  ;D.

Monday was PT day ... so I parked the car halfway between home and the hospital and cycled ... with a detour to Sandbanks to pick up our  winter-let beach hut key :-). I'd left it a bit tight with just an hour to get there, sort the key and get back to hospital..... eeep! PT suggested that I should drop back on activity a little to allow the swelling to go down LoL! At least I was warmed up (if not a bit sweaty  :-X !) for her exercises.

So I'm now into doing narrow star jumps (can manage 15 at a time before ouchies), step-overs (stepping over a small block) to work on stepping down properly (apparently stepping down is one of the last actions to normalise as it is quite an extreme position for the knee). Not up to jogging yet as impact and shear still cause jarring pain, but it'll happen soon enough.

The joy of getting back to my sporting interests is that it takes the focus off the knee. The downside is that I do find it hard not to get frustrated at times and over step my limits.

Keep well knee buddies xxx


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on September 30, 2010, 12:42:42 PM
Yo Cosmic!!

Good update! Do you think you're being a bit lazy though? I mean an evening of jamming with hunkyyoungfirmbuddysurffelmybuttwhipthemoffsurfshighrideemcowboy dude one evening a week is pretty slack isn't it?????? :o ::)  It'll be Jeremy Kyle next and every evening spent on ebay and you tube.... :P

Really good progress on the knee. I have to say that seeing you last week the walking and general knee function looks better every time I see you. Star jumps sound fun - I tried some the other week and Bob coped admirably but the onion protested! I need super squidgy boots!

Beach hut!!! Yay!! I look forward to seeing it - but only if we can sit like grannies with rugs round our knees (of course), cake and a flask of coffee (with a toddy in it) looking out over the sea front and grumbling about the price of bread.  ;D

Kris - I hope things are OK for you and your Mum and you have some time to get together with her soon and find out what is happening. Sending hugs over the water.

Me - nothing much to reports since the last update. Tez - the PT course is a Level 3 one which is the kind of formal "personal trainer" qualification. As with all jobs you only really start to learn and develop when you DO the job, so its the kind of licence to start working with clients. I then want to expand into level 4 qualifications to allow me to work with what they call "special populations" - my focus will be on younger people with things like OA or RA, some injury rehab (knees of course!!) and the clinically obese, especially teenagers and younger adults. I think this ia a real problem now and want to combine my psychology and fitness training to try and provide something a bit unique. I won't be doing sports specific training as my own issues means I'd struggle and it isn't where my strengths lie. My knees are doing pretty well so far, the Euflexxa does appear to have made Bob feel more calm, so I may have the other done too before our hols in November. The onion is up and down, but I just get on with it. I even managed a (modest) pair of wedge heels for work yesterday and wasn't crippled, although the onion definitely prefers flats!

Hugs to all,

Lottie xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on September 30, 2010, 02:03:48 PM
Hi all! Have been staying caught up on you, just being quiet given the circumstances. Have a trip planned to my parents' from Oct. 10-23, and can work from there, so that should be nice. No news really.

Lottie, you're a superstar and I am excited/glad to hear you will focus some on those with uhh, "lesser abilities" since you know what it's like to require that TLC! I know you'll do great.

Cosmic, thanks for the kind words. Sounds like you are doing awesome, but be careful with those damn limits! We will all get there in time but I know it's a pain. I still feel like I don't really know what I'm going to get day-to-day, one day's great, then one's crappy, and an overzealous workout usually means a crappy day. It feels so good at the time though! Argh!

I'm swamped at work because of the paris motor show so I'll crawl back into my cave now. good day to all!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: ouch09 on October 02, 2010, 12:10:04 AM
So my schedule now includes social badminton on Friday and Sunday, and TKD and KB on Mondays and Wednesdays

Cosmic, you've been on the Kryptonite again, haven't you ?   ;) You & Snowy, both ! Are you allowed to do Taekwondo (I assume "KB" is Kick Boxing) at your stage of rehab ? If you are, you probably don't need any more physio !!!  ;D

Anyway, it's great to hear how well your doing at week 19. I'm at week 14 & know there's no way I could play badminton, never mind doing any martial arts training.

- Lottie, what are you implying ... ?  ;) :P Good luck with your Personal Trainer course !

Kris, Sorry to hear about your Mum. Good luck for your trip to your parents'.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on October 02, 2010, 01:57:35 AM
Hello to the Cosmic Cafe Crowd
Oh My God Cosmic when do you have time to do normal human things like sit and think about the price of your Tesco shopping or wheather your using the best fabric conditioner, or any of the important day to day things that seem to occupy my thoughts ;) To be honest I am just wondering where you get the energy to do all these activities and keep the family happy, I think Deepak is right you and Snowy have some kind of magic bean or something that gives you both limitless energy, and I am extremely envyous.
It sounds like the knee is doing really well and its great to hear your back at your TKD and KB because I know you missed that the most.
Lottie your plans for your future career sound amazing you will be so good at helping anyone with knee issues and the fact that you can understand exactly what they are going through is going to be a deffinate advantage.
Kris I am so peased you are getting to see your Mum, you both will feel so much better just to spend some time together, I'm sure seeing your lovely face will be the best medicine for her and exactly what the doctor ordered.
Take care all Tez     
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on October 02, 2010, 04:11:52 AM
Hey Cosmic! Great to get an update on your knee. So impressed by all the things you're doing - I know I'm quite a long ways behind you, but just can't imagine badminton or star jumps at the moment. What sort of things are you doing at TKD and KB? I imagine some things are still ruled out at this point. I'm also impressed by how much you're doing for the knee day-to-day. I do feel like mine is coming off a bit second-best now I'm back at work; I'm managing to squeeze in two hours of rehab (combination of functional and specific) a day, but I'm sure Frank would be happier with about double that.

Lottie - great news on the course. I love your plans for post-qualification; I think the combination of psychology and fitness training will leave you perfectly positioned for that kind of work. Also great news on Bob's relative calmness. :)

Kris - so glad you're heading down to see your mom soon. Have been thinking of you a lot and hoping that you and your family are holding up as well as you can under the circumstances.

Hugs and happy kittens to all. :)

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on October 02, 2010, 09:05:12 AM

I got a text message from Lisa - she's having an amazing time in Uganda. Sounds like she's doing incredible work and really enjoying all the hugs and love she's getting from the kids in return. I'm so in awe of what she's doing there - it's definitely not something that anyone would do, and requires significant time and commitment. It's no wonder the kids love her - I'm sure she's a shining light in their lives.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 04, 2010, 11:02:03 PM
Hello all

It's been a while but work is utterly MANIC  :o  I have done a 13 hour day today more or less with an hour off to eat this fun fun...more of the same for another month at least I fear  :-\

I have been trying to ignore Neelie since she was reprieved from the chop but having settled for a bit, she has started to play up again.  I am back in the gym (weather has been way too nasty for cycling and I am a fair weather indoor swimmer so not been in the pool for a while  ;D ).  Time permitting, I am managing around 40 minutes of cardio - around 8 miles in 20 mins on bike on medium resistance at 75-80rpm, then 12-15 minutes on stepper, then possibly the XT or the treadmill for 12-15 minutes and on Saturday I managed a 2k row in 9m35, not done that for months!  With some upper body weights and the leg press (2 x 15 reps at 40kg, the knee can't manage any more, bit pathetic really but hey).  In addition, I am STILL carless  >:( so am walking more than usual I'd say (ok not much distance but more nonetheless)

Neelie doesn't find any of it exactly comfortable (no fluidity of movement for her on any of the gym stuff) but I persevere unless it is downright painful.  I still can't kneel, squat, jog, the lesion burns, the knee is swollen, was quite uncomfortable when I flew to Germany a couple of weeks ago (despite being in business and had loads of leg room - must be the pressure change) and frankly, I am fed up again.  I have been in a lot of pain today for some unknown reason, really tight to walk on, especially laterally and am wondering whether another trip to the physio may be in order.  Might seek out someone else, just to get another opinion really.  I don't think I want to go back down the surgical route, but I'd like to see some longer term improvement which just seems unobtainable.  I doubt the work stress, sitting through endless TCs and being chained to my desk help, but that's life right now!

Compared to what some of you other KG'ers are going through right now, I feel a little guilty for having a whinge about Neelie's grumpiness and my work stress!

Cosmic - back doing the scary martial arts stuff - fantastic!!

Lottie - fabulous doing the crazy PT course with the dodgy onion and the other prog rockers - happy to be your case study guniea pig, even more if you can give Neelie a kick up the bum and stop her teenage tantrums!

Tez - so so sorry about Gordon, it must be dreadful having to wait so long to be able to say your proper goodbyes :(  I would have loved to meet him when I come up in November. 
Superb on Tezknee for being such a star!  Maybe she can indeed slap Neelie into shape!

Kris - so sorry to hear about your mum.  Just be there for her whenever she calls on you :)

Snowy - Neelie is in awe of Frank's accomplishments...nuff said!

Bed now in preparation for another 12+ hour day tomorrow and more public transport!  ::)

Take care joints of the world!!!

Vicks xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 04, 2010, 11:53:07 PM

Just wondering if the "return to rowing" has triggered the bad day today? Rowing is basically a leg press of your body weight and resistance/assistance as you work. Its harsh on kneecaps. If you're slightly out of whack on your action and pulling for 2k......that knee won't like it. Just a thought. I simply can't row now, which frustrates me as although I hated it, I liked it in a punishing way and its non impact. It hurts me as soon as I get going so I can't even work through it.

Get some ice on her too!!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 05, 2010, 07:47:57 AM
You may be right, but it is precisely this which kills me about this whole knee nonsense - not being able to do what I want when I want and the rest of me is now capable of doing  :(  Rowing is non impact, I had it on level 5 and frankly felt like I was taking it pretty easy taking care not to overbend of overstretch the knee!  It may have also been the fact that I walked about half a mile each way to a friend's house for his birthday party, or the fact that I then stood in a bar for an hour jiggling, it may be nothing to do with the gym!  I did no exercise to speak of on Sunday - (I just went to friends for tea.  I won't get to the gym now until tomorrow due to work so I'll see how it feels today - the pain did feel muscular or tendon-related but it was downright sore to walk on especially after being sat for a while and the defect area is burny, also during the night...

At a bit of a loss right now, 13 months post injury, 8 months post scope an still this  >:(
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on October 05, 2010, 07:57:54 AM
Valid point Lottie - I have the same love/hate relationship with the rowers, they are great for people like me who spend their lives punching forwards, the backwards pull creates equilibrium in the muscles and joints around the shoulders..... but my knee simply protests (even at a relatively low resistance). At least with leg presses I can take time with each rep to make sure it is in good form - much harder to do when you are beasting on a rower.

As for my star jumps, badminton, Kickboxing (KB) and TKD, and even the cycling really .... it may sound impressive but just imagine everything at about a quarter of what it would normally be. Star jumps are to about a shoulders width. Badminton consists of lots of shots that I just have to let go and shots that go out of court as I can't get my feet angled correctly behind the shot, KB and TKD is patterns and linework which I can ramp up or down as I need, and pad/partner work which again puts me in control.

A lot of it has been about conquering the fear of doing stuff - although maybe fear is too strong a word.... it's a massive sense of self preservation where everything is squealing - "OMG it's going to blow again!"....

One of the side effects of getting back into sport is that everyone around me seems to have developed nervous tics! They are all so worried that I'm going to re-injure it. To be fair I don't think my poor TKD/KB Instructor has forgiven himself for asking me to demo the pattern that involved a flying kick - he'd coached me through 4 years after my last op and had always been insistent on my avoiding jumping and modifying spinning techniques to suit. Three weeks ago when I appeared in my suit to train he saw me arrive and posted a Black Belt on the dojang door to stop me entering (all somewhat tongue in cheek!!). I feel obliged to him not to re-injure myself in his class.

My badminton colleagues started off playing almost patronisingly (can't say I blame them), but I'd rather lose fair and square than win falsely. Sunday night saw a world stopping "plant and twist" moment where my trainer clad foot stayed put as I pivoted to turn. A sickening graunching sound and a tentative hop later and I WASN"T on the floor, WASN"T in agony, WAS feeling very white and queasy and rather tender but was able to carry on playing. It has been unhappy for a couple of days but not enough to keep me from training TKD and KB last night.

Snowy - I don't think I am ahead of you (apart form in time post op) - I think our recovery paths are weaving through each other, like two raindrops running down the window. You RAN!  ;D . My knee is getting the jitters just writing it!

Tez - haha magic bean  :D - we are vegetarian so that may count  ;) ..... I just don't sit down, if I do I fall asleep! It is a "standing" joke with the kids that the only way I can watch a film is through my eyelids!

Well, Camerooney is well on his way to school on the train, Ele is just about to get her morning hug and a shower of kisses to wake her up (she hates having her sleepy space invaded, but it annoys her enough to get her out of bed ... the only other option to extract her would be to develop a bed-bomb I keep doing the hugs and kisses LoL!)

Happy Day to you all


Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on October 05, 2010, 10:23:10 AM
Got some good news re: my mom's prognosis- no brain or bone metastis (sp?) and oncology is hopeful for a really good outcome after 3 rounds chemo. She starts Monday... ready or not here we go!

The kneetard walked a 1.5 mile round-trip to/from the dentist yesterday in slouchy boots. Maybe not the best idea, but he survived (my damn feet hurt though.)

Cosmic I have been struggling bigtime with the rowing machine. It makes me so mad to see people plug along full force on that thing while it hurts me!

I am interested in the magic bean if anyone's selling one...
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 05, 2010, 10:53:42 AM

That is really great news about your Mum. Chemo will be a tough time but thats a really great bit of news and hopefully will bring about a positive outcome. Sebding positive vibes for the start of the treatment and some real gains. Keep us posted!!

Cosmic - I read that description of the plant foot and twist and felt quite giddy. Is Stumpy OK today? I think what you're doing is just fab, even if it is only a quarter of where you were. Think - this time a year ago Stumpy and Bob hadn't met and you were stuck at what was it, 30 degrees, and hopping about on crutches!!

Vicks - I'm not nagging about the rower and I totally understand about how the knee won't let you do things the rest of the body would cope with. BUT its a kind of "comes with the territory" kind of issue and I guess the choice is adapt what you do and find a balance or try the surgery. It sounds like Neelie has some fluctuations that are going to happen with a cartilage defect - fundamentally its an arthritis based change (I am not saying you have arthritis per se) and symptoms will fluctuate in the tissues around it. Increased repeitive load on the knee, especially if form lapses (which it tends to do even in mega non injured people if you're working hard) and the knee takes on a compensatory load, xould cause more inflammation.

Me - the darned onion has flared BADLY. I can hardly put weight through it with any bend - not helped by smashing it into a bookcase yesterday but it was bad before that. I am very frustrated - have just committed to my PT course with the plan to start seeking out clients from 2011 and if so, when on earth can I fit in foot surgery that will take 5 weeks of non driving and probably 6 months of getting back to normal activity of walking/no swelling/being on feet/up and down on floor? Plus the knees are doing well, and I don't want to stop the training I am coping with - agh! fingers crossed its a blip not a meltdown....DRUGS. ICE. BATH. ToryChopperBoy may be asked to stab it with a steroid but to be honest, the pain isn't inflammation, its bone on bone.  :-\

Oh well, onwards and upwards, people have much worse things to deal with.

Hugs to all,

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 05, 2010, 01:33:58 PM
Lottie - I know.  However, actually, as long as I don't over bed/stretch on the rower it hurts no more as an exercise that cycling/XT/stepper or even walking any distance (by this I mean 15 minutes not 10k) and swimming.  Should I have to modify everything?  The knee also swells no less after the rower than any of the above.  It's a **** frankly :(  The surgery isn't an option ultimately due to the insurance issue - I think putting and shutting up is the way to go.  I might see a physio - the knee gets so darned stiff just sitting through wrteched TCs, have had 2 hour long ones already today  ::)  Anyone got an tips to help with that (other than drugs which I am not too keen on)?

Might Eulflexaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa help lubricate the onion and so reduce some of the bone on bone pain, rather than a steroid?

Kris - great news on your mum - my own mum had lung cancer 20 years ago (was operable and had a bunch of radioTx) and then a brain met and she is still cancer-free today :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on October 05, 2010, 09:38:33 PM
hiya Cosmic cafe crowd
Kris I am so happy to hear the encouraging news about you Mum, I know the chemo wont be fun but having her family round her to support her is going to make all the difference, I also think having a positive attitude makes such a difference when dealing with anything like this, and if she is even slightly like you that wont be a problem at all.
Lottie so sorry you are having an onion flair but as Vicky suggested maybe Eulflex would help ease the bone on bone pain.
Vicky I know neelie has been a little s**t for you over the last few days so I hope she starts to behave for you soon, it would be great if you could pinpoint exactly what causes her to act up but I think it appears to be whenever you crank up the work in the gym, I could be totaly wrong in that and I know how frustrated you are about what neelie will allow you to do but maybe a different physio might have some new ideas for what's best for her.
Snowy thanks for passing on the news from Lisa I also think she is an amazing person to do what she is doing, and you can tell how much she loves working with children, I just hope she gets home safe and sound after having a fantastic time.
Cosmic even though you feel your not exactly doing all your activities full throttle , just to be back doing them must make you feel as if things are returning to some kind of normal. I love how you wake Eli up in the morning I also do the same with Steph even though she's 17 now, its deffo the best way to wake her up and keep her in a good mood cos she is not really a morning person at all, and anything to get her moving and out to college without  her having a strop is a good thing.
Take care all Tez     
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 06, 2010, 11:00:48 AM
Hmmmmm......onion in decline. Gradual decline over past 3 weeks has ended up with severe stabbing pain, almost like a nerve is being impinged on the bone spur at the top. Braking in the car hurts, walking hurts.

In technical terms. BOLLOCKS. Having just started the PT course, with calmer knees than I have had for 12 months I had hoped Onion features would behave.

I fear DrToryBoychoppersawholditrighttherebringmy911roundmymandoesthathurtooohlovelyscrewsintoebangbangbangdone Onion man might be on speedial before too long.....problem is we have 2 week hols on 3rd November and i can't realistically see anything being done prior to that....which gves ample time for a reprieve and another bottling out.


Hope everyone else is OK!!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on October 06, 2010, 12:10:57 PM
Ugh Lottie, so BUMMED to hear this. If it's not one thing, it's another. It seems the timing is all wrong for bangbangchop, even though the monthly Carrera payments might be due. Any chance for temporary relief with the old guard? Perhaps you could walk around in surgical boot? (A most attractive option, always.)

Vickster- sorry you are struggling and I hope you can get some relief/find balance with not doing too much! I was listening to the orthopedics show on satellite radio the other night, and the doc said the main issue with knees, hips, joints in general is that impact is always the enemy... but try to have a "normal life" without impact, it's impossible. All we can do is lessen the impact when we can control it (i.e. if you have to walk a lot in your daily activities, stay off the dang treadmill). I am better at the preach than the practice obviously and still struggle. I wish there was a quick fix for these suckers but I am supposedly still looking at months til total "normalcy", not that I'd recognize it either.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: seerobinbike on October 06, 2010, 09:22:04 PM
Officially entering the Cosmic Cafe for the first time I believe.  Heard this is where all the cool people hang.   ;)
Cosmic...Well, look at what you've started!!!  Haven't read through all the postings here but it seems that you and Snowy share a boatload of determination and/or craziness.  Pleased to meet you.

Snowy...Oh.  You were the very first person to respond to my diary. :'( :'(  Thank you.  My intention for keeping a diary was to help others going through the same type of operation but found lots more!

Tez...Think of you often during this tough time in your life!  XX

Lottie...can't seem to touch base with you often enough to offer support but you always show up @ the Cosmic.  Sorry to hear of your major bump in the road.  Not a good time for this at all.  Damn.   

Kris...So sorry to read about your mom although the news does sound a bit more encouraging since I last read your post.  Thinking of you even if you don't know me.:)

Vicster...Sorry to hear that you've been having so many bad days with that knee of yours.  Have you given any thought to accupuncture as an alternative?  Also, google prolotherapy.  I'm a massage therapist and had a client a few years back who tried everything under the sun for his pain and it was prolotherapy that ended up helping.  It popped into my head the other day when my knee was being a pain.

Ouch…pleased to meet you and anyone else I missed. 

Me…Off from work today cause I’m feeling icky. Not sick but just not feeling right.  I e-mailed my boss last night to warn her and she basically told me to stay away!!  Good news is that it’s taken my mind off my knee woes. 

Nice visiting all you geeks.  May you all be having (somewhat) good knee days!!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 06, 2010, 09:30:32 PM

Yay Robin!!!

Welcome to the cafe!! This is indeed where all the BEST people hang out.... :P  Glad to see you here!!

I decided to distract myself from onion pain and spent an hour on the bike at the gym and managed just under 30km - wooohooo, Bob hasn't managed that long for a year. Perhaps Euflexxa is helping! (Tez, it won't work in the toe as the joint is too small, plus for me I have little functional joint space in it, so it would be agony and probably not helpful. Poooo) I then killed myself with some heavy weights, and have now frozen the right toe into submission.

Simples choice really - suck it up and stop moaning or book the op for the wek after hols, shift my course to the next inake (March - May workshops 2011) and hope it recovers quickly. Do I live with pain when  walk (and sleep) in this cycle or trust that fusion will help??? Or try a debridement??? (But X-rays show quite bad degeneration.....)

Agh - sorry to offload!!

Thanks for listening!

lottie  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 06, 2010, 10:09:41 PM
Hiya Robin.  Pull up a stool and grab a beer  ;D

It's not so much the pain that gets me, it's manageable without drugs, just used to it now I guess.  Sometimes it can be quite bad but that passes usually.  It is the infernal stiffness which frustrates and the tight full swollen feeling.  13 months post injury and 8 months post scope and the knee is still puffy all the time  ::)

I have an appointment to see the physio on Monday, to see what he advises to deal with the flares, tightness, and stiffness - problem at the moment with mainc work, being sat in meetings and TCs and at desk.  Is quite bad even after 30 minutes at the moment.

Heard of prolotherapy but no idea what it is or even if it is something available in the UK.  I am not really up on alternative stuff.  My OS did mention hyaluronic acid last time I saw him before the non-surgery saga!  Then the knee settled for a couple of months, even walking was better.  Will get the physio to look at my gait on Monday to see if this is an issue, even though I am more or less limp free.

Lottie - sorry the onion is being such a pita especially with the knees behaving and lots of life plans.  Maybe time to see Mr ToryBoy again if you can countenance the thought of surgery.
30km on the bike is excellent, I did about 12 in 20 minutes today (all I had time for in the gym) and could barely walk and still hurts.

Hope all the other global joints are calm and funky  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on October 07, 2010, 05:37:40 AM
Vicks - ack, that really sucks. Not sure what you can do given the situation with the insurance. Is it the fibrocartilage that's responsible for the swelling?

One of our neighbours had prolotherapy on a long-standing back injury, and swears by it. It's not something I know a great deal about personally, but given that surgery's not an option it would be worth looking into anything that might be a viable alternative.

Any word on when the car will be restored?

Kris - I'm glad you've had some slightly better news about your mom. Will be keeping my fingers crossed and sending good thoughts her way (and yours) as she embarks on the next stage of the battle.

Lottie - that's really too bad about the onion. I know it's been settled for a while, but if every settled period ends in a bad flareup it might be worth just biting the bullet and getting it done. If you do, you'll be in good company - my mum is still planning on scheduling her op this winter (she had to delay it due to a recent celiac flareup) and Jen's mom is now getting hers fixed too, most likely before Christmas! Apparently all the cool people have onions.

Hope everyone else is doing okay. I'm sitting tight and trying not to worry myself to death over how bad my knee feels and the fact that my PT (normally Mister Cool) seems quite concerned about it. Gotta get through tomorrow's trip out of town and big presentation first, then deal with the knee first thing Friday. Ack. Gah. Ack.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 07, 2010, 08:01:23 AM
Hiya Snowy,

I think it must be - tis grumpy stuff  it seems :(  If I feel around that area, it is tender.  Still a bit puffy around the portals but that would seem to be quite common.  Last night it was swollen medially too, quite noticeable compared to the other knee.  Seems ok this morning but I am sure it will start to complain as I walk to the station (still carless, they are waiting on parts  >:(  )  Not sure what has set neelie off over the last few weeks, hadn't been to the gym since Saturday.  Just seizes up when I sit  ???

Good luck with your presentation.  As others have said, take a day off all exercise (gym, bike), one day will do more harm than good, ice and take anti-inflammatories

Vicks xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: seerobinbike on October 07, 2010, 11:04:46 AM

I say just go for it.  I worked through my pain for at least two years because it was an on and off thing.  Not quite sure what the tipping point was but something tells me it was exercise overload that sent me rushing to a knee specialist.  Not having surgery just wasn't a choice.  I could barely walk and was limping around work like an 80 year old.  So I rolled the dice and viola.  My knee is far from good but it's sooo much better than it was. 

You've probably already figured this out but it took me a bit of time to realize that if you go to a website for people with knee problems, only those who have run into problems on their way to healing will continue to post.  Personally, I know at least 6 other people...some younger, some older and some who are defiantely out of shape who had meniscus surgery and emerged with no problems whatsoever.  I understand that you aren't facing quite the same set of problems as I did/am but at some point, you've got to question the quality of your life and go from there. 

I understand that it's not an ideal time for you with your PT classes starting.  (Congrats on this decision, BTW!!!)  Truth is, there is never going to be an ideal time for surgery. 

Anyway, I'm getting off my soap box now and sending you lots of good thoughts and hugs.  XX
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: seerobinbike on October 07, 2010, 11:12:06 AM
Thanks for the warm welcome, Vicster. :)  After having spent months post surgery fighting knee soreness and stiffness, I hear you when you say that it gets old fast.  (And even worse, makes you feel old faster!)  Hopefully the PT will shed some light on what may be happening.  Did you get a chance to read some about prolotherapy? 

Hoping that today brings better things for all you fellow KG's out there in cyberspace.

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on October 07, 2010, 11:15:39 AM
Good morning cool kids... and welcome Robin!

Vickster, I just read about your swollen portals again and wanted to mention something weird I've noticed. My portals generally look ok, but if I cut my bad knee shaving (or most recently mosquito bites) the skin swells like crazy and takes way longer than it used to to heal. I've got almost 4 week old mosquito marks now. I'll be 4 months out as of tomorrow. Surgery does weird stuff man... I still struggle mostly with stiffness/fullness too. Hope you are getting some answers (and can share! lol)

Lottie, it definitely sucks to think about the surgery again, but maybe it will be good to get it out of the way so you can continue on the path with classes, etc?

Snowy I just wanted to reiterate how sorry I am about your achiness. Grrr....

I am definitely in with the crowd today. Stiff and sore for no reason (my fat butt has been lazy on the workouts with all of the life drama so I haven't been to the gym since Saturday)... trying to be good to me today and hope it feels better tomorrow. First flight of the "knee era" on Sunday, we will see how that goes!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 07, 2010, 12:17:13 PM
Morning all,

Robin, I think you're right. Its strange but apart from some usual horror tales abut big toe fusion I actually have a wealth of material to indicate that this is a successful surgery! In fact, one of our crew has a partner with a fused big toe who is MEGA active and fit!!! ;)  I am going to go back and see ToryBoy (and Robin, he is so called because he looks like a Lib Dem MP but when i saw him first i spied him levering himself out of his 911 so said to Vicks he was probably a Conservative  ;) and he is quite sauve but its gone to seed a wee bit in his later years!! I don't care - he has a great foot and ankle clinic and very good reputation with the local physios and nursing staff) next week I think and have a chat. I have some weird nerve type sensations now too in the foot, so in reality I think the sooner the better. I just dread not being able to exercise - although I do have plenty of home gym stuff and have just secured a 2nd hand spin bike wooohoooo ex gym for £75 so can hook up the onion and pedal (from week 3 apparently. Weeks 1 & 2 have 4 boxed sets of House to work through....with constant elevation!) I am scared the knees won't like the inactivity but if I can get them biking after 2 weeks then they should be fine.

Vicks/Kris - a stiff, swollen knee after a scope isn't always unusual for up to 12 months.....according to my London doc. Just the joint settling down. May not even be the defect per se Vicks, just an unsettled onion will be swollen for up to a year. good job i have lots of big trainers!!

Snowy, posted on your diary too but  hope Frank settles down after his big Tv appearance. Perhaps its time to show off his scars to the world? Can we watch this TV extravaganza? On the i player?

Right, time to see if R has rescued my desk top. On Tuesday the Tassimo coffee machine blew up. the power spike it caused did something to my desk top and its vey unwell. A Windows install is currently ongoing but the bad news - all my i tunes library has vanished.  :'(

Onions and pootas - who needs them! Oh and there is a mouse somewhere that I can't locate.....(rodent type not computer)

Lottie xxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on October 07, 2010, 01:29:56 PM
Good day/ night/ morning/evening to all enjoying the roller-coaster ride of kneedom,

Kris - that's very hopeful news for your Mum. I hope your flight is uneventful and you are able to enjoy your visit.

Lottie  - remember your chappy at the gym who said you would reach a point where there was no decision to make as there is only one option .... you'll know when the time is right. you have heard so many of the GOOD outcomes from ToryBoyBigChopperBigToeFusion that hopefully you are feeling a little more assured of the outcome.

Snowy - bummer re your pain in the knee. I hope your Physio has some answers for you. Looking forward to seeing how your presentation went (I'm sure it was a knock out.... did you remember to take the chocolate enticements/treats just in case?).

Robin - very warm welcome to this den of iniquity ;-). Lovely to have your dash of wisdom added into the pot :-)))... and you are so right about the forum being mainly for those with problems/looking for help. It is very easy to get a skewed picture of the wide world out there.

Vicks - I saw a very poignant news article shortly after my knee-incident. It was about a policewoman who had been shot and paralysed in the line of duty. She was competing at international level in fencing - within just a couple of years of her accident. She said that when something happens to change your life it is easy to focus on what it has taken away, rather than finding new ways to enjoy what remains. It may be that acceptance is a large part of our healing - and learning that acceptance is much most certainly not a giving in, but a moving forwards. Like Lottie and Robin, there may come a point where there just is no other option for you than slicing and dicing, but in the meantime it sounds like there may be other routes like Prolotherapy that are worth investigating.

Tez - hope you guys at the salon are holding up OK, and the knee is withstanding the rigours of work!

So my post-op diary is counting at just short of five months (it's a bit like being pregnant - first you count in days, then weeks, then months! Hopefully noting my diary in months signifies that the end is closer  :)!). Lottie - you are right when you say that where I am today is a long way from where I was a year ago. My comment about being at about a quarter of fullness in everything I do was no to "diss" where I am, but just to try to negate some perceptions that I am a Magic-Bean-consuming-super-being ;-) .... it's all very much in moderation at the moment.

There doesn't seem to be any real set back from the plant and twist episode on Sunday, and I was very "sensible" and sat out on the mobile kicking padwork and power kicks last night at KB.
Sensible isn't the most flattering word, it doesn't portray spontaneity, vitality and excitement. It does, however, represent a maturing of my thought processes, an accession that i need to insure my body against unnecessary risk.... and no I'm not going to wear a twin-set and pearls, horn-rimmed glasses and drink sherry JUST YET!

I'm going to try to post a pic of my numb patch ... some reports state that generally by now the numb area  should be the size of a coin - I thought I go more bank note and cheque book, with a couple of credit cards thrown in... it covers he whole of the front of my knee and around to the portals.
It was weird finding the border between feeling and not ... and drawing around the perimeter of the numb bit, the line ended up going over the lateral portal and looking like a duck!
There's also a picture of both knees for a comparison. Quads still have a long way to go to even out, and there's still a certain amount of swelling which I think may just remain.... a bit like when you blow a balloon up and then let it down again  :-X  ::)  :-\  ;D.

Hugs to you all and your creaky-knees xx

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on October 07, 2010, 09:18:37 PM
Evening all you Cosmic crowd...Robin its nice to see you here so pleased your bringing all your witt and wisdome to the cafe regulars ;)
Lottie so sorry the onion is having a meltdown it would appear the time has come to get that onion chopped once and for all, I know the thought of all the down time is a bit scary but the fact that the knees are feeling a bit better it would be a shame to lose the benifit of that because of the darn onion.
Cosmic my knee is holding up ok it has been a bit achey today but that would be day 3 of my work week and I had only been doing 2 days previously  so it could be that or the fact that last night after work myself and a couple of the girls went up to start clearing Gordons flat and spent a goood part of the night walking up and down the stairs with bags of stuff, or the third option is I have had no time to do much in the way of physio recently, or just a combination of all three.
Snowy I hope all went well today with the interview and the heels were a big succsess
Vicky hope neelie has had a calmer day and will prolly chat with you on FB soon
Kris you must be soo looking forward to going home to see you Mum I'm sure you will feel so much better about things once you have seen her and get to spend some time with her.
((((hugs)))) to all take care Tez 
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 08, 2010, 09:47:59 AM
Well, after another night of disturbed sleep and someone stabbing an ice pick into my toe (although briefly distracted by one of my best buddies and chilled bottle of Sauvignon Blanc arriving at 6pm last night wooohooo) I am seeing Mr ToryBoyschopitdicechopsawoohlovelyletmejustnailthatdownChopper on Monday at 4.45 to just chat through some questions and get his advice. The nerve type pain I have is different, and I think indeed I have to do something. Whats the alternative - live with this for ever???

Still stuck on doing it asap after or hols and knowing its done or sticking with course and then doing post completion. Gut says do it sooner - delay course til March to May (can still do all the distance learning first) and that also gives me time to heal longer and should be able to start taking on clients in the, I need to ask ToryBoy if realistically I will cope with the 3 x weekend courses some 3.5 months post op. They wouldn't involve impact work, but I'd need to be mobile, to get down on floor, etc to be there all day.

Plus dealing with this sodding sore onion all winter is going to KILL me!

hugs to all knees and their owners

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: ouch09 on October 09, 2010, 12:59:06 AM
Kris - glad to hear the good news about your Mum. Good luck for your flight !

Vickster and Lottie - sorry to hear that your knees and (in Lottie's case) toe are causing you grief. Lottie, good luck for your appointment with your "ToryBoyToChopOrNotToChopThatIsTheQuestionChopper" ortho surgeon !

Cosmic - I'm also vegetarian, but I don't have your energy, so like Kris, I'd be interested in some of those magic beans, if you're selling any. I know a nightclub where you could do a roaring trade selling 'em ...  ;) I winced when I read about the "plant and twist" episode at badminton  :o Glad to hear that you're OK though and been able to resume normal activity, while exercising some restraint - I think being "mature" is a good option   ;)

and no I'm not going to wear a twin-set and pearls, horn-rimmed glasses and drink sherry JUST YET!

And why not ? That look is back in, so the super model tells me.  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 12, 2010, 08:41:16 AM
Morning all.....

How is everyone? Kris - hope your Mum is doing OK and you're also OK. How is the kneetard amongst all of this?? (and the teeth?!!)

Tez I shall post on your diary but I have been thinking of you this week and hope that the funeral goes as smoothly as things ever can do. It won't be easy but it is also a chance to celebrate Gordon's life and the friendship he gave you all. Sending hugs.

Cosmic - do you have the lawn mower ready????!!!  :o :P  Fiona is unfortunately busy, but I think this week may be Winchester on the telly so I will be Sky plussing it!

Deepak - I can well imagine you with sherry, magic beans and a twin set at Stringfellows. I will call OK magazine this morning to get you featured in the Society section, or perhaps Tattler may be more suitable.....

Me - well, I saw ToryBoy yesterday. He was delayed in theatre so i got a call putting me back by 2 hours in the morning, blimey I hope he didn't chop the wrong toe off or something. He was helpful, and said I did completely the right thing having a wobble in the summer if I wasn't sure. He is going to arrange for me to speak with a couple of his previous female patients who are younger and active who've had fusion. I think this will be useful but I am very aware that everyone's recovery is different. I quizzed him on rehab again and its 6 weeks off bike, 8 weeks of cross trainer, 5 weeks no be honest all this worries me a) I'll hate not being able to exercise and will be climbing the walls and b) the more concerning thing is that the knees will go into meltdown with no biking or cross training for 6 weeks. I know as soon as the muscles stop getting used the PFS flares badly. I'm just managing some definition in the legs again, and am biking between 25-30k three to four times a week at the gym, plus cross training and my other circuits stuff. I know the foot hurts, I know it won't get better, but I still wonder if I am at the "OK the pain outweighs the change/loss of gym routine/knee therapy...." The thought of the knees returning to how they were 6 months ago....eeeeek. I shall speak with these other folks and see what they say.....

Right then it is breakfast time for onions,

Hugs to all

Lottie xxx ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on October 12, 2010, 06:55:29 PM
Lottie sounds like a good idea to talk to someone else who has had the toe fusing already, and with any luck that will be enough to put your mind at rest, I understand its a big decision to make, but do you really want to have all that pain forever, and ok the fact you will not be mobile for a while and not be able to go to the gym and excersise will be hard for you, but its surprising how quickly time goes by, and before you know it you will be back doing everything you love but with a lot less pain. Just keep thinking how painfull that ice pick in toe feeling is, and do whats best for you.
Take care Tez 
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on October 12, 2010, 07:22:33 PM
Cosmic - just short of five months, wow! That's well past the halfway mark and even if you're having to moderate things more than you'd like, it still sounds like you're accomplishing an impressive amount. I am finding the current phase of rehab (3 months) almost unbearably tedious, as there's still no real change from the "same activities, more weights and reps" instructions that I've been getting since about the 8 week mark. Just the idea of being able to do the range of things that you're doing sounds quite exciting to me!

Ditto on the numb patch - it sounds like yours covers roughly the same area as mine. I've gotten used to it and it's a fairly minor concern in the greater scheme of things, but it's big! Looking forward to the pics.

Lottie - ack ack ack on the onion decision. I guess the question is whether the decision will get any easier if you do leave it. I don't think there's ever a good or easy time to have surgery, and the consequences on the rest of the body are one of the most distressing things about it. That said, if you have time to plan there are things you can do to mitigate the impact on the knees at least a bit (I can forward you all the things my PT had me doing) and being able to get good upper body workouts does a lot for the psychological impact. In fact I can just picture you doing a Jen, and cycling away with the surgeried foot hanging to the side and the good leg clipped into a pedal and doing all the work. :)

Hugs to all from an achy-kneed Snowy. xxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 12, 2010, 07:40:35 PM
Tez and Snowy - thanks for the good wishes.

I forgot to say that ToryChopperBoy also said he could do a debridement, probably via scope. This *might* help symptoms - it has a 75-80% success rate and if it doesn't work then you usually know within 3 months. Two weeks in the special shoe but no restrictions on activity as the aim is to get movement back in the toe, although clearly it will swell so long walks won't be on the cards for a while. Having studied my X-ray again last night I was surprised that my joint space is actually very well preserved. A very clear and decent spacing. A scope wouldn't address the onion deformity but having had for so many vanity has reduced. Mobility is more important! He also said that when the prospect of not training for a while and being restricted seems like a fair trade to make for geting rid of pain I'll know its the right time. Leaving things won't change what he can do, progres is very slow, the toe won't suddenly not be amenable to a scope if I procrastinate for months. However as said, its tough just not doing anything.

My heart says do the scope, save the wiggle toe. My head says do the fusion and deal with it. My Lottie-ness is doing neither at the moment!!


Snowy - is Frank still sore????BAD BAD Frank. Smack.  :-\ >:(


PS Snowy - love the comment about Jen and cycling......I have a second hand spin bike arriving next week, I was thinking I could just clamber on using the wall as stability, hook up Bob leg and strap him in for work and stick the opped foot up or out and pedal away!!!  :P ::)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: seerobinbike on October 12, 2010, 09:56:28 PM
Hey to everyone @ the Cosmic.   :) :) :)  Thanks for letting me part of your crowd.  It's kinda like the TV show Cheers in here.  Sometimes you've got to go where everybody knows your name!  Does anyone know what I'm talking about?   :P 

Lottie...figured I'd find you here.  Sorry that you have so many crappy decisions to make.  Ack as right. Yes...mobility is #1 and sometimes I suppose you've just got to take the chance and hope that you've made the right decision.  6 weeks off bike is pretty agonizing but if you don't get the foot problem addressed it's just a matter of time before back problems, etc. will crop up I believe.  Compensation does terrible things to the body.  But that's nothing that you don't already know.  Hey, I've done the one legged spin thing and it ain't all that bad!  No matter what decision you make, at least it will be a step towards something.  Inertia is a terrible thing. 

Vicster....How has your knee been feeling? 

Cosmic, Snowy, Tez, Kris, Ouch, Deepak....Have a nice cold one for me.  Part of my detox diet is no alcohol at all.  Probably not a bad thing since I think I've been imbibing a bit too much since my knee pain began.  I've lost a few pounds and I swear that not drinking has helped calm my knee down!!!  So it's a Kenyan Extra Bold for me tonight.  Take care all...I've got to go give a couple massages now. 

Robin  XX
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 12, 2010, 11:40:05 PM
Hey Robin!
Same old, same old in Cosmic Cafe's Cartilage Corner. Unfortunately, changes in Neelie's well being are measured in units of weeks if not months  :(  She has been out and done a few careful miles on the bike over the weekend while the weather was nice and struggled through 20 minutes on the static bike and 15 minutes on the treadmill tonight.  Saw the physio yesterday, he is befuddled by the knee's lack of cheeriness, doesn't think there is much else he can suggest.  Doesn't think I am overdoing the exercise given time passed since injury and op, just there is something in there which is irritating the joint.  He suggested maybe seeing someone else with a fresh pair of eyes in case they can think of something else to offer.
Ah well, such is the way of these pesky joints it seems  ::)
Vicks xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on October 12, 2010, 11:56:54 PM
Lottie - hmm. 75 - 80% success rate is not actually that bad, particularly as it's not an especially lengthy or torturous recovery. If I were you I'd be pretty tempted to go for that option as a first step. It doesn't come with the lengthy limitations and irreversibility of a fusion, and if it worked you'd no longer have to face the unappealing choice between a long break from activity and constant pain. At the very least, it gives you another option to consider.

Unfortunately once the PFS flares up it doesn't settle down quickly, as I'm sure you know. :( Frank got pretty much a complete rest since Wednesday thanks to the Victoria trip and our thanksgiving break, but there's still a lot of niggly pain under the kneecap. At this point it becomes a balancing act: enough activity to keep strengthening the muscles (which will ultimately do more than rest to help the PFS feel better) without reaching a point where the patellar pain becomes so bad that I literally can't exercise. I knew this issue would rear its head at some point during rehab, so it's not unexpected - just a gigantic pain in the ass (or the knee, to be more accurate.)

Robin - I may join you on that particular wagon! I had let my anti-inflammatory diet slip as the swelling in my knee is mostly gone now (maybe 10% over the good knee remaining, which is fine for this point) but it's inflammation of a different kind that's causing my current discomfort. If I'm resorting to the Diclofenac again, I probably should think about going back on the diet too. Mind you we have so much thanksgiving turkey left after dinner yesterday (I bought a 16lb bird to feed 6 of us; we all ate well but barely dented it) that I think that's all I'll be eating between now and Christmas.

Vicks - so sorry to hear that Neelie isn't improving. Are they absolutely 100% sure that it's the cartilage damage causing the unhappiness? You've done so much to try and settle that down - it just seems like maybe there's something else going on there. Wish your insurance company had been more forthcoming on finding you a real fix. :(

How's the car doing?
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 13, 2010, 12:06:10 AM
Oooh the car is fixed and I will collect it on Saturday  8)  My brother went to NYC today and has loaned me his monster BMW Alpina estate so no traain seaqson ticket this week  ;D (nor my daily Starbucks fix and the station  ::) ).   It is a bit terrifying driving it as it is one of like 10 ever made and is his pride and joy so sweet of him to lend it  :-*  It also has a 3.3l engine and 280 bhp but I haven't exploited that (yet  ;)  :D )

I don't know what the issue is with Neelie-b**ch-knee - hence my general feduppedness with her >:(  Nothing else showed up on the MRI in August, just the wretched fibrocartilage, nor on OS examination - grindy kneecaps, lateral tenderness, ligaments all stable  ???
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 13, 2010, 10:05:11 AM
Grindy kneecaps/PFS can make knees a living hell...... :-\ :'(

Time to find out today if the R32 is terminally ill. If it is a nice sensible TDi is on the cars. (with a cheeky remap). 40mpg + instead of 25mpg suddenly looks good.  ::) 8)  I am truly getting old.

Snowy - you're right on the debridement concept, it is another option and the concept of only being limited by pain/swelling rather than "you MUST  not do anything or the fusion won't work" is quite appealing. With decent joint space it could buy me much relief. Foot will still be fugly but hey, they live in shoes.....Hope your PFS settles, it is SUCH a balancing act as you say, I am completely with you on it. I can almost feel when training I hit a point where the usual working out ache becomes a PFS ache and its hop off the bike/cross trainer and lie on the floor doing core work for 30 minutes!!! Then ice on the knees as soon as home. Hoping Frank calms down, the NSAIDs should help that low grade inflamation to settle. ToryBoy coined a lovely phrase for early OA stuff - he said it "waxes and wanes" true!!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: seerobinbike on October 14, 2010, 12:10:42 PM
Morning to all:)

Vickster...A fresh pair of eyes sounds like a fabulous idea.  Things were going very well for me after my medial meniscus surgery in June when all of a sudden the knee just seized.  OS said post traumatic arthritis (and to this day this may have been the case) but to cover all bases, I decided to have one of the best MT's in this neck of the woods take a look at it and he within 5 minutes he said MCL tear.  Two PT's didn't pick up on this nor did the MRI I had prior to surgery.  I did go back to take a look at some of your older posts and am feeling a bit perplexed right now.  What is your latest diagnosis?  Glad that you were able to get out on the bike even for a short bit.  Does wonders for the head.  Oh...and glad the car is fixed.  This can only help poor Neelie! :)

Lottie...Well?  Any decisions yet?  ??? ???

Snowy....Hop right on, the weather is fine up here.  Truth be told, I think I got into such a funk when my knee began hurting and I wasn't able to work out as much that my usual one Corona might become 5 or 6.  I've decided that for the time being, it's better not to even start.   :)  It's only 7am and I've already got veggies roasting in the oven! 

Tez...Thought of you often yesterday.  XX 

Take good care all and hope that body's and minds are hanging in there.  Robin
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 14, 2010, 01:39:01 PM
Hi Robin-

Latest diagnosis I guess is that the knee is still swollen and tender laterally upon examination.  i cannot kneel on neelie, not squat nor twist or lean up against the lateral side of knee.  Full ROM, but lack of fluidity cycling etc
In terms of actual damage to the knee, lateral menisus was torn (had to be trimmed, degenerate and in 5 months I had managed to grind part of it away  :-\ so not repairable - around 10-15% removed apparently), osteochondral defect on lateral femoral condyle of around 1.5cm2 - would have been through to bone but at time of scope in Feb (and I believe August MRI) filled with fibrocartilage, plus a grade II defect on tibia and also grade III wear and tear to lateral facet of patella (which was tidied up).  OS is pretty certain that it is the wretched scar tissue that is tender and causing Neelie's grumpiness, hence suggesting a cartilage repair...I have seen a second OS 9after insurance company refused to cover repair) and from his examination, all the ligaments are ok. 

All good fun!  ::)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on October 14, 2010, 02:09:00 PM
Good afternoon Cosmic Crowd
Vicky after reading Robins post could it be possible that you also have some kind of post traumatic arthritis as well as all the other defects just wondered because you have some periods where neelie feels not to bad and others when she is not happy at all, I dont know much about any of the problems you are having but my thoughts were if the pain and swelling was soley down to the cartiledge defects then would neelie be painfull all the time, sorry if I'm talking rubbish but I know how frustrated your feeling about it all and really want to help.
I think going to see Paul while your up at me next month is a good idea also, not that I think he's so much better than the P.T your seeing just now but sometimes a fresh pair of eyes on a problem can find something missed.
Robin how is the detox going I think it might be an idea for me to join you especially after having a few drinks yesterday when we went to our usual haunt after Gordons funeral, so between that and spending a large part of yesterday in tears I am feeling a little delicate today and detoxing sound just what the doctor orderd.
Lottie sounds like the debridment would be a good start point when it comes to your onion woes, from the sound of things it cant make things any worse and if it works then it saves you all that time away from excersises etc, how quickly can it be done if you decide it's the way to go?
I hope the cars not treminal and its fixable cos it sounds like you love that car even though its a thirsty beast.
Snowy happy belated thanksgiving, shows my ignorance of all things Canadian I didnt realise that you celebrated thanksgiving for one, and that it would be a different time from the American one, SORRY.
Take care all you lovely people Tez       
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 14, 2010, 07:55:45 PM
I think Tez has a point re Neelie - any form of cartilage trauma can lead to "arthritic" type changes, especially if there were some changes prior to incident (think you said the kneecap was not directly linked to the accident? ) Hence the waxing and waning as ToryBoy called it of symptoms.....Vicks check out tenisfan in General threads - she has failed OATS and a defect. Huge relief from a series of Synvisc injections......

Lottie's fast update before dinner:

CAR - VERY poorly. Cam chains about to fail. 2k repair bill, but car is actually running fine and no warning lights, so the plan is to trade it in at VW or Audi for something - FAST!! I feel a bit bad but such is life and they'll sell it with a full warranty so if it does fail. the next person is protected.

TOE - feels great - its stopped raining and onions like dry weather!

KNEES - Euflexxa rules - fluid, less aching, even pivoted today and then spent an hour squatting and kneeling looking at cars and their underbits.....

Right then - wine time. All this car hassle has meant no gym for 2 days. Pah. BAD MOOD!!!

Oh and had an eye test and no glaucoma and perfect visual field (blind as a bat but hey, contact lenses have worked for 20 years...). Thank god not all my body is failing....

Hugs to all


PS Cosmic. Get the lawnmower out.... :P
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 14, 2010, 10:51:06 PM
Thanks Tez and Lottie :)

I think I shall probably give the hyaluronic acid jabs a go, as much as I don't relish the though of 3 injections (which is how my OS does it) into Neelie, it can't do any harm  :-\

The OS's secretary phoned me today saying she had received a note and a visit from the physio saying I had seen him again and could she and the OS help at all :)  Got to love private healthcare, bless!  We had quite a good chat, she asked me how I had got on with the other specialist and what was happening with the knee.  Explained all and then talked about the jabs a bit.  Obviously, I need to see the OS so I'll make an appointment.  Think I'll wait until after my visit to sunny Greenock!  She did ask whether I would have the surgery if was covered and I did say I wasn't so sure, given that the knee had calmed down a bit for a while.  I don't know exactly what the physio's note said, but she did say that he had said that I certainly wasn't under-exercising and she wondered whether I was perhaps overdoing it?

I am struggling at the gym right now - today I only managed 20 mins cycling, ok quickish at 20mph/~75-80rpm but only level 7 and 15 minutes walking on the treadmill increasing and then decreasing the incline and neelie has been done in both times this week.  OK, probably not helped by being knackered and stressed but is that really the best I can deal with!?  Gym 3 x a week, 45-60 minutes of cardio and weights?  I am 38 not 68!

I am going to see how the jabs go.  If they help settle the naughty neelie, then great...if not and she is still griping in the new year, I will revisit the surgical options - although I will discuss with the OS when the stabbing occurs!  :o  Work hell will continue now until late Jan anyhow

I had started to plan a West Coast US trip for May (possibly ending up in Vancouver ;) ) but that will go on hold if do end up having Neelie fixed as the OS won't let me fly for 3 months and certainly not for 11 hours (I couldn't anyhow right now)

I wasn't aware of any issue with my knee or patella before the accident, indeed before the scope which is when the wear and tear was discovered.  the popping is quite mad at the moment, I can get a pop and a couple of crunches a lot of the time when bending my knee, either lying, sitting or standing lol  It isn't painful per se but it is quite weird!  ;D  The right knee is most gurgly on the leg press.  I'll check out tenisfan as suggested

Lottie - boo to the sick car...VWs eh  ::)  but good on the happy progsters  :D

Tez - I am glad that you got to say your proper goodbyes to Big G with family, friends and colleagues  :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 15, 2010, 07:47:48 AM

I do have to ask.....why are you walking on the treadmill when walking outside aggravates the knee?! I KNOW it is frustrating but constantly re-irritating the knee won't ever it time to settle. It HAD settled for some time, then flared up - for whatever reason....if you want to live with the irritation then fine, but personally in a flare up I'd be doing nothing that used a repetitive leg action for a week and icing diligently, lots of stretches, no leg press, follow an anti inflammatory diet for a week (so no refined sugar, no alcohol, lots of things like cherries and so on...Snowy had a good one she used) and try and slap the knee into submission. Also, if you're having the shots have them ASAP - they won't hurt so long as he numbs the area first, and they can start to work prior to the visit to Scotland.

Lecture end/

Lottie  :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 15, 2010, 08:02:30 AM
Too much work right now, difficult to take time off

Lecture heeded but I have to do something, frankly everything is (mildly) uncomfortable in the gym (bike, XT, treadmill, stepper, rower) and I was encouraged by the second OS and the physio to carry on in the gym...there is more to me than this f***** knee :)  Not using the gym over the summer made sod all difference - ok it has settled but it wasn't better  :-\  It stiffened while sitting, it still grumbled while walking, it still popped and ginded and it was still swollen, it was subjectively better but it wasn't better  and I am beginning to wonder whether it will be with the wretched fibrocartilage which isn't miraculously going to go away   :'(

Don't take refined sugar away from me, life's miserable as it is  :-[

Sorry, grumpy this morning after another atrocious night's sleep  >:(
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on October 15, 2010, 08:18:09 AM
Vicky (((((hugs))))) to you and your non sleeping grumpiness :P and just a wee note so your not too dissapointed... Greenock is possible the wettest place in the world so be aware....... be very aware......
Take care all Tez 
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 15, 2010, 01:04:36 PM
Well......if you can't take time off for the injections, and don't want to modify the gym then I guess this is how it is...   :-\

I'd still try and ice after the gym despite thinking it doesn't do much - it won't do any harm. I don't mean remove every bit of refined sugar, but think about what might inflame the knee from the inside and feed it stuff that might help it...........cherries, loads of them. Loads!!!

Maybe some celebrex might help?! Magic pill for my knees! (but I know you don't want to take meds either.....)

Scotland is always wet isn't it Tez????  8) ;D :P  (Scenic though!!!)

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 15, 2010, 01:27:01 PM
I did ice a bit last night :)  even though it was brrrrrr  :o

It's not cherry season, but I will try to avoid too much c*** (now I have had 3 pieces of cake this morning lol and I am out for a Brazilian meat, capirinha and beer fest tomorrow)   ;D

I don't think I am at the Celebrex stage, I'd be better off with an NSAID first as I have more swelling than pain.  As neelie is a pain, she is not quite at Bob's level I think

I have decided to go for the jab - my work calendar is astonishingly free currently next Thursday, OS has a clinic, the planets are aligned (as long as the insurance will cover (I dk how much he charges otherwise, cashflow isn't great right now, I could sell a kidney  ;) )

I shall take a brolly ro Scotland, although after the Tequila session, I may not care  about the rain :P

Edit - insurance will cover cost of consultation but not the injections...not proven for use in the knee (only hips apparently)...I've got 2 kidneys right ;)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 15, 2010, 07:12:18 PM
Cherries come in high juice format too...and tins.... 8)

Celebrex IS an NSAID, designed for joint issues and OA rather than generic inflammation. Not quite sure what you mean about "Bob's level"???  :-\ Ho hum.

Your insurers are talking crap - there is documented evidence that knee injections can bring relief. It won't show 90% improvement but neither does an arthroscopy. Euflexxa is £250 for the 3 shots given at once. (more effective apparently).
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 15, 2010, 07:40:48 PM
Lottie - I am only repeating what I was told, even if seems to be crap...the nurse said that Durolane (which is a brand of HA that is given in 3 doses) is not covered by them as there is not sufficient evidence in knee for them to cover.  I queried that I do not know which brand of HA the OS uses, but she was definite that they do not cover any product that is given as 3 jabs.  They will pay for the consultation, I presume I will need to pay for the actual be it, I'll get the sec to sort the invoicing.  I get them all anyway, will just settle that one myself and get them to pay the OS costs.  I am less inclined to argue about a few hundred quid given the previous stress and hassle. 

What I meant about Bob is that I do not have severe pain, yes, I have burning, stiffness, twinges.  That said he is far far better behaved than Neelie right now - she won't cycle 30K happily

Ok I was wrong, I apologise.  Celebrex is a Cox-2 inhibitor, a type of NSAID. I am no scientist, but assume that molecularly it is different even if it acts the same as the likes of ibuprofen, naproxen, diclofenac. 

I think I need some anti-grump cure rather than NSAIDs right now..!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: seerobinbike on October 16, 2010, 06:22:39 PM
Lottie and Vickster...look at you two go at it! :) :)  I think you should both go out and have a drink together.

Vickster...I've been crazy busy with work but have been thinking about you and your knee.  I want to agree with Lottiefox regarding the injections but am wondering whether you've gotten a cortisone shot yet.  One quick stab and it's over.  I had one maybe 6 weeks ago and (touch wood) my knee hasn't been terrible at all lately.  My OS recommended Synvisc injections for my constant knee pain post surgery but luckily the cortisone shot helped for my insurance company keeps tossing the request.  Are you able to walk normally?  Is there anything that doesn't aggravate it?  Are you really feeling down?  I'm sorta kidding about the last question but after my funk set in post surgery, my knee really started hurting badly.  Once my knee started feeling better, my mood lifted.  Just another thing to think about, that's all.  Sorry it's been so hard for you.  Your accident was over a year ago and you are still in pain. :(  That just sucks.  You shouldn't feel 68 @ 38 and I don't blame you for being tired of the pain.  Pain gets old fast. 

Lottie...behave. :) :) :)

Chat again soon, folks.  XX
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on October 16, 2010, 06:52:25 PM
Vicks - so sorry that Neelie is being such a pain. I think the shots are an excellent next step - will keep my fingers crossed that they provide some relief. I do hope you don't have to cancel your West Coast trip - a Knee Geek outing in Vancouver would be awesome. :D We could also come and meet you for the day if you were somewhere nearby on the other side of the border, like Portland or Seattle. Keep me posted on how the plans come along.

How is Neelie doing now?
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on October 16, 2010, 11:53:49 PM
Good evenig all I must say the whole insurance company thing must be a pain Vicky It sounds like they dont cover much of anything that is use to you at the moment, I think the injections you have decided to have would probably be covered on the nhs but as we talked about, the legnth of time it would take to get reffered to an o.s then wait for an appointment with them then the wait for them to decide that the injections are whats best for you, another 6 or more months have passed with you still suffering with the bitch neelie, so I think your doing the best thing at the moment. dont worry about being grumpy we all have a good old grump from time to time, and dont worry I will cheer you up when you get up to wet and windy Greenock.
And Lottie oh yes we usually get rain up here but when the weather is good you cant beat the views, and just to keep you happy I will concoct some kind of lovely cocktail for Vicky that uses  cherry juice and force her to drink it while shes up ;)
Robin I knew your wit and wisdom would come in handy on here ;D
Snowy It looks like our Vicky will become the travelling knee geek who drops in on all other geeks all over the world to check up on how they'er doing, now if that was a job anyone wanted to pay a wage for I would like to offer my services ;D
Take care all Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 17, 2010, 10:09:26 AM
Robin, Snowy, Tez - thanks  8)

Neelie is Neelie - and I think that is what so darned frustrating about this whole thing - the constancy of the never changing landscape of kneedom - some days she is better (never normal - i.e. feels the same as the right knee, which is my gauge for normal) and some she is worse (rarely what I would necessarily call painful beyond an ouchy twinge) but uncomfortable or sore and restrictive  :(

This is hard for me, as although I have friends and family, I don't have a partner to share everything with which is probably why you KGers bear the brunt of my knee-related griping - and I can only apologise for that  :-[   I also think that I become much more sensitive to it as well when I am stressed and tired like now, although the current work hell does give me something else to focus on.  The gym also provides a release and focus, which is why I am so unwilling to give it up again (having been gutted earlier in the year when the OS advised me to stop for 3 months which I did).  In the gym, it would seem to be a fine balance between not doing enough for the knee and the rest of me and possibly doing too much - I haven't found that balance and am not sure how to  ???

Friends and family and colleagues can appreciate the effect it has on me and their view is that I 'should get it sorted' but obviously this is easier said than done - there is no miracle cure for the damage unfortunately  >:(

I haven't had a cortisone shot no, and no doc has ever suggested it - I am not overly enthused either due to the potential for soft tissue damage.  The HA injections (of which Synvisc is one of several brands out there) shouldn't do anything nasty - ok, may not help but won't harm either!

I need to head to the supermarket now - my life is a whirlwind of excitement lol

Sorry for the venting...

Laters xx 
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 19, 2010, 12:19:24 PM
Seeing OS on Thursday evening to discuss injections.  If he still thinks it is sensible, they will be done 3 times over 3 consecutive weeks :)  Will also discuss other possible (future) action
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 19, 2010, 06:57:05 PM
Worth checking with OS to get his thoughts. Have you seen him since the MACI consult? Get that knee ready for a big, long, sharp, needle.... :P :o 8)

Not much to report here apart from calm joints in Lottie world, but severe problems with my eyes now! Can't tolerate contact lens in right eye; was found to have mild astigmatism at my recent sight test which explains the blurry night vision but over the past week the whole eye is so darned dry and irritated! I have had to get some glasses on order as I live in my contacts (ooops probably explains the problems after 20 years..) and I am severely myopic so glasses will present an interesting change!

Good news on the knee - I've been driving a manual car for the past week until we get my new one...(wooohooo) and the knee has coped fine. Its a very light clutch, it wouldn't be so happy in ToryBoy's 911 but its the first time in a year I have managed a manual.  ;D  I'm trying to cut down my Celebrex to one a day, then one every other day but notice the difference. One a day appears to be the minimum before the gnawing starts up again....hope they aren't making my eyes dry!!

Kris - how is your Mum doing?

Cosmic - sorry about the aborted "joint but not treatment" at the weekend, but looking forwards to the rebooked one!! File those claws and mow that lawn!!  :P

Snowy - hope the knee is still happy after the running. Those kitties are awesome.

Robin - you mentioned the knee was a bit sore again. I hope its settled down again. Darned knees.

Hugs to all

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 19, 2010, 09:39:13 PM
No I haven't seen anyone other than the physio since then.  Neelie was more settled until a few weeks ago  ???

Thanks for the warning on the needles, not normally terribly bothered by them, but I think my strategy this time will be....

not too look  :o :P  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 19, 2010, 10:12:28 PM
I didn't look. Richard did. If he offers local first take it - the knee is totally dead. Wonderful!!  8)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 19, 2010, 10:44:22 PM
Local sounds like a spiffing idea  :D

As long as the OS looks, Neelie will be fine!  8)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: seerobinbike on October 21, 2010, 02:00:12 AM
Vickster...LOL.  Yep.  Doctor MUST be looking to give the injection.  Like Lottie, I find not looking helps alot.  Have you gotten a date yet to begin the shots?  Sending good thoughts that this will help you.  Like you said, it may not help but it certainly won't hurt!  I have my reservations about cortisone but not being able to walk can force you to make decisions you wouldn't otherwise make. need to apologize for the venting!!!  This (I think) is what makes this forum so special.  Some days we rejoice over our (or others) accomplishments and other days we just need to bitch.  I think that it's great that we all have a place that we can come together and do one or both.  God knows that my friends, co-workers and hubby are sick and tired of hearing me talk about my knee!!!   :D  Seriously, if you were to ask them, they would tell you! 

Lottie....Happy to hear that your knee has been doing so well!  Did you do the whole series yet?  Sorry for asking but I'm getting old. Guess if it's not one body part, it's another, huh?  Hope that you get this straightened out soon.

Hope everyone is hanging in there tonight.  Tomorrow is a new day and will hopefully be filled with love and happy joints. 

Robin  XX
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on October 21, 2010, 06:47:48 AM
How can you not look? I would have to look! (I still wish I'd been able to see my surgery.)

Vicks - is this a cycle of better-worse-better-worse that Neelie goes through, or does it seem to be a steady decline? I'm also curious as to whether the OS has any thoughts on why the fibrocartilage is so problematic when they actually seek to create it via microfracture in many similar cases. It does beg the question as to whether something else is going on in the joint that's causing your symptoms. Ack - knee stuff is so damn difficult.

Lottie - congrats on driving stick! I felt just the same way when we had my friend Annie's little Toyota while my truck was on its trip to Montreal. The funny thing is that because I learned on stick shifts and never even drove an automatic till I moved here, it still feels like the "right" way to drive - when my truck got back, I spent the next three days pushing an invisible clutch with my left leg.

Happy knee days to all. :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 21, 2010, 10:53:45 AM
How can you not look? I would have to look! (I still wish I'd been able to see my surgery.)

Vicks - is this a cycle of better-worse-better-worse that Neelie goes through, or does it seem to be a steady decline? I'm also curious as to whether the OS has any thoughts on why the fibrocartilage is so problematic when they actually seek to create it via microfracture in many similar cases. It does beg the question as to whether something else is going on in the joint that's causing your symptoms. Ack - knee stuff is so damn difficult.

Snowy - well I might look if I can't not lol !  Needles aren't a major concern, but there is no way I could watch surgery on myself or anyone else "live".  I can watch it on the TV ok, although I did catch something orthopaedic the other day (putting a rod in a bone or fixating something) and it was BRUTAL, hammer used  :o 

I think it is that, Neelie never feels normal like her sister, and is always puffy and stiff to some degree. I don't know if it movement in the gym that is now aggravating the fibro, but I do get that tight vice feeling walking normally too.  She has been stabby on stairs this week too, which is unusual  >:(  The stiffness gets worse if I sit for a time (this can be 10 minutes or longer) regardless of how I bend my legs sitting - I think I just tend to sit in the way that is most comfortable while sitting rather than trying to figure how to sit so that Neelie is less stiff when I stand up (does that make any sense whatsoever??) .  I also get burning around where the knee is tender laterally -  a quite specific patch, which I can only assume is where the defect is, and she can be sore if I lie on that side too.  Neelie is also poppy and grindy and crunchy when bent and straightened, e.g. doing a heel slide - this does vary in its degree but occurs pretty much every time and is disconcerting but usually no pain - from what the OS said post scope, this is a result of the shaving of the manky patella cartilage, creates suction in the groove.  Lovely lol!

In terms of the FC being tender, I think this can just happen - it is harder and less smooth than hyaline cartilage, and I can only imagine that it gets irritated as the joint moves - what the physio suggested.  There are certainly folks on here who have had MFX and although the defects fill in, they continue to have pain  I guess similar for me, I just went for the DIY MFX approach  :-\  I assume that defect location can make a difference to this.  For whatever reason, I don't appear to get the FC to chill out longer term - even when I saw the second OS and Neelie was as calm as she had been, it was still tender around that area.

I think I need to decide whether I can live with the discomfort long term (I would say it is uncomfortable and annoying rather than painful, although I do get more ouchy moments every day) and am prepared to pretty much ditch the cardio in the gym except to a very gentle level.  For example, I was in a lot of discomfort on the stepper the other day and had to stop after 6 minutes (I normally sweat my way to 15 minutes, my feet go numb lol but my knees are normally ok) .  I have stopped rowing and also not been on the treadmill this week.  I can usually use the XT ok (numb feet again, knees feel a bit jelly like but not painful) and the bike is ok on about level 7 @ 75-80rpm - I do 10 minutes ok, the second 10 can be sore.  The physio certainly thinks the bike is the best for me as long as I don't over do the resistance (and indeed not underdo, some is good as provides control to the pedalling motion)

Dodgy knees do indeed appear to suck! 

Ooops waffle waffle waffle...sorry  :-[

In terms of getting the shots, I see the OS this afternoon to discuss that this is a sensible next step (he suggested these back in August before I saw his OS mate) and then will be booked in for the three jabs over three consecutive weeks.  I guess thus that the first will be next Thursday.  No point waiting to do once decision made :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on October 21, 2010, 02:13:34 PM
Hi geeks!
I am a long way from being caught up but it seems you've all had lots of action over the past 2 weeks (boo hiss). You know I will add my 2 cents if you just give me a little time!  :)

My mom is doing really great. This past Sunday the nausea from chemo started, but it's spotty and she's been staying on top of it with meds, so not too bad. She has 2 wigs and many hats at the ready, but she has a ton of hair so even though she's losing it, you can't really tell yet. Her oncologist made her get a flu shot on Monday, so I think that is a bit of what's making her feel crappy. We've had a really great time together and her attitude is awesome. The best news is that she's already breathing better, which means that the radiation is shrinking her tumor as hoped. Awaiting scans but this is obviously the best result we could have hoped for. Almost 2 weeks down, 5 more to go in this first of 3 rounds of treatment (which will hopefully be all she needs.) Thanks for all of your good thoughts and prayers.

Of course the kneetard just CAN'T BEHAVE! I had admittedly been doing a LOT here... housework. long walks with my dad and the dog, and stationary bike rides... the knee was bugging me a little, then on Monday while we were sitting at chemo I started to get the "all over the top of knee" pain I had before surgery. Over the past few days it's become extremely swollen with the familiar old pains that extend into the quad, behind the knee, etc. I am devastated and can't imagine why this is happening. Fortunately I have my physical scheduled for Tuesday, so my GP can probably give me a referral to go back to the OS. So this is now officially a full year of knee problems. AAAAAAAAAHHH I considered jumping off a bridge. Am saving my last 2 prescription pain pills for the flight home.

Will get back to you all again once I am home... I am supposed to be working right now (oopsies)

hugs to all knees, onions, and the cafe regulars to which they are attached!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 21, 2010, 09:07:25 PM

Saw the OS this evening

Good news (I guess) - Neelie isn't going to be stabbed (says the HA jabs are suitable for diffuse arthritic changes, not focal lesions, won't do much if anything),.  Bad news - he thinks that I should definitely pursue the MACI trial at Stanmore as it is clear the knee isn't getting better and I cannot live with it like this for the rest of my days!  He says the latest MRI shows changes to the subchondral bone under the scar tissue and this is as likely to get worse as better.

He says he could clear out and drill the defect, but very hit and miss process and is entirely possible I'll just end up with more tender scar tissue and more change to the subchondral bone.

We discussed mosaicplasty but for him this would be a less good and last resort option given the size of the defect - i.e. to consider if the MACI door is slammed shut.

I guess, thus, the next step is to speak to Mr S and get booked in to have the scope to investigate the lesion (Mr A didn't seem in any doubt that it is suitable, he asked f Mr S had seen the scope pic of the lesion, no) and have the harvest / biopsy.  Assuming I am able to have some control over the process, the best time for the scope would be just before Christmas to minimise effect on work (joy) and then have the bigger op in Feb (current work hell to which I am committed should be over by then)

 As I said to him, coming off that bike was not the cleverest thing I have ever done in my life  ::)  This might not be the best time to buy that Spesh fast hybrid I have been eyeing up  ::)

Cripes! Guess I need to dust off the crutches  :'(
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on October 21, 2010, 09:19:33 PM
Kris so pleased to hear your Mum is doing ok I think a positive attitude is one of the best ways of dealing with anything like this, and I'm snure having you there with her has made her feel a lot better as well. Booo to the kneetard it donsn't sound so good and think its deffo time to go back to see the O.S and see what he thinks is going on, with any luck its something easily fixable, knees seem to have a mind of there own and will do whatever they damm well want.... nasty things!!
Vicky sounds like the chop is in your future now then, at least you now know that there has been some changes that explaines Neelies grouchines, looks like I am going to have to show you a really good time when you come for your visit as it would appear you wont be doing much partying over christmas as it looks like you could be nursing a newley scoped neelie
I hope all the other Cosmiceers are happy and doing alright.
Take care Tez  
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 22, 2010, 09:23:21 PM
Now with 'Neelie Art', she smiled nicely for the camera   ;D

Shows her scraggy bit in all its glory  :-\
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 22, 2010, 09:33:33 PM
I need to try and upload a shot of Bob's lesion on his femur. He has a smaller width but a nice white flare underneath. I assume that means he is rotting slowly.... 8)

Knee. Eyes. Feet. Pah.

Someone rebuild us all.....

Lottie x
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 22, 2010, 09:37:53 PM
LOL...don't ask me how to do that, I suspect I will never again be able to successfully crop and upload any image

How are your dodgy bits the wine helping your vision  ;)  :P
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: seerobinbike on October 23, 2010, 05:56:26 PM
Vickster...a what?  Did you say mosaicplasty?  You are talking way over this gal's head. It sounds complicated and a bit scary!  Hope you and your doc's can agree on what is best for you.  Sorry that it isn't a bit simplier for you. :(

Lottie...Seriously, huh?  Please. Help. Our. Aging. Body. Parts!!!

Kris...I'm new to the Cafe but do want to say that I'm so glad that your mom is doing well.  Glad that you are there with her (I'm sure that she is glad that you are, too!!!)  Sorry the knee is being such a kneetard.  Remember the days when we all just took them for granted?  Well, at least I did.  Do you know what the next step towards helping the knee is going to be? 

Tez...I know that today is Gordon's party.  Please know that I am thinking of you.  XX

Hope that you all have a decent weekend in spite of all of life's little and sometimes big problems.  Keep the faith!!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on October 23, 2010, 06:52:43 PM
Kris - that's great news about your mom's response, but not so good on the kneetard. Hopefully it's a response to the travelling, extra work and stress and not previous problems returning - it would seem really strange for that to happen after all this time. Let us know how you get on when you see the ortho - definitely best to get it checked out sooner rather than later. And will be keeping my fingers crossed that your mom keeps up the amazing fight back.

Vickster - ouch, ouch, ouch! No wonder Neelie hurts. Funny how such a tiny piece of damage can start a cascade effect. Do they think the subchondral damage dates from the accident, or that the fibrocartilage hasn't been providing sufficient protection for the bone? It's too bad your insurance has blocked off all routes other than the trial, but at least you still have that option - hopefully it will provide the relief Neelie needs....

Lottie - it would definitely be worth investigating the laser eye surgery. It's super popular here - I have five friends who've had it done in the last year alone - and I don't know anyone who's had a bad outcome.

Tez - I hope that Gordon's party is a chance for all of you to share wonderful memories and raise a glass to your friend. Thinking of you.

Not much to report for me - Frank had a vile night after my monthly six-meeting Thursday (seven hours of sitting around = mighty unhappy knee) but then settled down a bit yesterday. Running is now up to 15 minutes at a time on the treadmill, which I think means my PT will okay me to start running outside when I next see him. Most of my attention is being sucked up by the nightmarish deck reno project on our building, which has spiralled to more than three times the original budget (from $18,000 to $60,000) causing a major financial crisis both for the building, and ourselves. On the positive side, Laya is doing great with the kittens and has definitely picked one who will be staying. Ah, kittens.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 24, 2010, 01:13:22 AM
Tez - I hope the party went off ok and that there was as much laughter as snotters :)

Snowy - Neelie would be as grouchy as a grouchy thing too after all that sitting, Frank is coping admirably with everything you chuck at him.  15 minutes of running is  8)

I don't know whether the bone damage was caused by the accident - I'll take a look at the initial MRI and see if I can post a comparison.  I can't imagine knocking off cartilage and performing a DIY mfx is particularly bone friendly!  The OS did say that the defect would have been to the bone initially so maybe caused at the time?

Indeed, the damage looks so innocuous, I think the location is as much the issue as the size - I was told 1.5cm2 after the scope but the latest MRI reporting did not mention size apparently.

I am seeing Mr S on 5 Nov to discuss Neelie choppage.  Had a chat with his secretary and she said that my insurers aren't great but not the worst! The trial is ongoing apparently and the op could possibly be done on the NHS if the insurers really won't play ball. (I will get the HR director to take it up with them again).  I do have an agreeable GP who feels sorry for me and my knee woes, so I am sure she'll do whatever she can if necessary (and she thinks it is crap that you can have insurance and still not be covered)

Grouchy Neelie - pretty gentle gym yesterday annoyed her, shopping this morning annoyed her further and going out this evening more!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 24, 2010, 07:31:25 PM
From what Mr Evans said to me, the bone damage often just occurs when the covering cartilage is unhappy. A trauma can weaken the bone and then if the covering doesn't protect it you get changes.  :-\  Good news on the next appointment, time for action from what you've said!

Tez I hope the party was a great celebration of Gordon's eternal 39. What a great age to be - and I bet he had a 40th knees up in the spirit world too, and was looking in on your shenanigans!  8)

Quick message only, as adjusting to my new specs! Eyes have settled a bit, have decided my worse right eye is due to my lack of botox in my forehead for the past 4 weeks which has created my usual droppy eyelids so I am off to get rezapped this week in the hope it helps the fel of the right eye. Nothing at all was found on a very detailed opto exam on Friday - eyes in very good health considering I have worn contacts for 20 years day in day out. So, I think my eyelid may be pushing on the lens and making it feel a bit sore. Optos don't check this as clearly your eyes are wide open when they examine you!!

All quiet on the knees and onion front - something remarkable has happened and I am not even thinking about my knees. I was scurrying around yesterday like 12 months ago, and not a twinge. Kneeling, pulling things, twisting.....has someone rebuilt me whilst I slept?!!

Hugs to all,

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 24, 2010, 07:59:35 PM
Cheers Lottie

I wonder if the bone bruising has something to do with it

I have got an image from the first MRI, but having technical issues with getting it into an uploadable format...

Lots of pain this afternoon after the gym  :'( - ice, 400mg ibuprofen and a couple of co-codamol has helped.  Will be going very easy in the gym for the next couple of weeks

Let me know what has helped the progsters, perhaps I can buy some of the good karma for Neelie in Waitrose   8)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on October 24, 2010, 08:53:59 PM
Good evening all you lovely Cosmiceers well Gordons party was a great success everyone semed to have a great time there was lots of laughter and a few tears, we even launched one of those chinese lanterns that everyong wrote a wee message on then lit the bit you light and watched it fly straight up into the sky till it had gone out of sight, and I am sure he got the messages we had posted to him, Lottie I really loved the phrase that Gordon's eternally 39 he would have loved that as he didn't want to turn 40 and had been getting worked up about it for some time.
Lottie so pleased the knees are behaving thats brill and long may it continue, sorry your having trouble with your eyes and hope the botox redo helps with them, I also have kinda droopy eyelids so wondered if botox would help me in that department, do you really think it helps to lift the eyelids enough to make a significant difference, I may have to sart saving my pennies and get some done too.
Vicky not be too long now till the 5th and the appointment with Mr S then the next day you will be in the air flying up to see me yipee, really hope that by taking it easier at the gym for a while will help neelie to settle down and give you a break.
Kris I hope your Mum is still doing well I'm sure now your home you will miss her so much and I'm also sure she known how much you love her and would like to spend longer with her but unfortunatly work and life gets in the way, I hope the kneetard is feeling a bit better now your home and if not its time you got your wee butt back to see your O.S or maybe even big bad Brad.
Snowy the photos of the kittens are the cutest things I have ever seen even though I'm more a dog person looking at those little kitties has made me want to get one, not too sure how Misty would react to having a kitten in her house but I would love it.
Robin how are you is the knee stil misbehaving or have things settled down, I really hope so so you can get back to enjoying your bike rides with 2 painfree knees.
As for queen Cosmic how is she doing Lottie you keep in touch, I hope all is well with her cos we havent heard too much from her latley, wondered if Mr Cosmic was home and he was keeping her mega busy, or is it just all the different things she fills her life with that's keeping her so busy, whatever as long as all is well and shes ok its all good.
Take care everyone Tez           
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 24, 2010, 10:31:16 PM

I am a botox convert - I had it before I got married and also some filler in my lines from nose to mouth (I'd lost 2 stone in weight and looked a bit gaunt!) and have stuck with the botox for my central frown line and above my eyes. I don't want to achieve the Fiona Bruce 80 degree eyebrow look but I find it really helps my frown line, and in turn with careful placement the eyebrows lift a tad and your face looks less tired. I know its toxins into your body and it kind of goes againt my life-ethics but hey! I tend to frown easily especially in sunlight and the injections really help, and also lifted my droppy lids a bit. It costs me £280 for injections into all the required areas and that lasts about 4 months. Not cheap. If you go for it make sure a proper person does it - I have had a consultant plastic surgeon do it and now his manager of the clinic does it and she knows exactly where to place it to achieve the right effect. Amateurs can leave you with droopy bits you don't want!! I will get some before and after shots if you want and can email them to you. :-))

So glad the party went well. I LOVE the idea of the lantern with messages written on. Such a lovely thought and I bet the eternal 39 year old is reading them now.  :D

I am in regular touch with Cosmic and she is keeping very busy. The last update was the knee was doing pretty well, and we have a spa day booked in for after my holidays for some Stumpy/Bob pampering which will be lovely. I believe Mr Cosmic is returning this week for a visit.  8)

Time for sleeps. manchester tomorrow and early start.

Night all xxxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on October 25, 2010, 11:25:06 AM
Hey peeps!
Back in the office this morning, being a major GRUMPERS (the kneetard and I both!) since I was kept up most of the night with pain (like the old days!) Not sure what is going on, but I still have tons of swelling, pain over the top of the patella, and other associated aches around it like I used to. Hoping I can at least get some pain help tomorrow when I see my GP and I guess she'll maybe have to refer me back to OS. Not sure what the deal is but this is definitely not normal, everyday pain. (If I have to go back to Big Brad I will probably choke him.)

Tez loved the lantern story... so nice!  :)

I am definitely a little sad about being home and sort of overwhelmed because I'm not sure when I will be able to get back to GA... but it was wonderful to get away and now I get to deal with my crazy coworkers instead of chemo nurses. I would prefer the nurses any day!

Snowy... thanks for the good thoughts re: my mom and yeah... this knee stuff is definitely strange... but I guess if you look at all the people posting on this site, maybe surgery fails are not super uncommon  ??? I am trying not to freak out too bad yet and hopefully it's nothing, but... with the way the universe has been treating me lately, who knows!!

Lottie how are your eyeballs? I am not a laser candidate but I would also get it in a heartbeat (my mom had it a couple of years ago and it didn't fix her, but she apparently is a "super scarrer" and thus not a good candidate either so I wouldn't use her as an example) My main problem, aside from being blind as a bat, is allergies, so I can almost never wear my contact lenses in the spring and fall, wjicj is super annoying.

Vickster, counting down to your appointment! Here's hoping you get somewhere!  :)

later gators.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on October 25, 2010, 06:45:27 PM
Hiya all Lottie the whole botox thing sounds really interesting and I would love to see some before and after pics, what has always put me off is the frozen look that some people get afterwords, I sure thats down to who you have to do it, si if I decide to get it done I will deffo look for a reputable practisionar.
Kris I wonder if the problems you are having with the kneetard could have something to do with the fall you had a while back ,I could be totally off the mark but just a thought cos I know you had just been given the all clear from your O.S so it could be something thats happened since then, tell me to shut up if I'm talking rubbish!!! just a thought..
Good news that all is well with Cosmic and the spa day sounds amazing, that is one of my favourite things to do unfortunatly it dosn't happen very often so I'm green with envy :D, plus it wont be long till your holiday Emma you must be really looking forward to getting away for some sun and relaxation, lucky you.
Take care all Tez   
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on October 26, 2010, 04:08:01 PM
Good morning all...
Just wanted to check in since I have just seen my GP. She found the swelling to still be pretty significant (I thought it was looking a little better) but doesn't think it's indicative of a failed surgery. She says she can feel something under the kneecap but it doesn't feel like fluid, so it could be either a new injury or something underlying that was not fixed or identified during my scope. I got a new scrip for more NSAIDs and a referral to go back to OS. Hopefully I will get better from the strict NSAID regimen and won't have to keep an appointment with OS but we will see. Tez, your theory about my fall is an interesting one and definitely goes along with my GP's assessment, we will see!

Can I raise my hand to say I'd also like to see Botox pics? I have a "paragraph" forehead and always have, it gets worse every year so by age 30 I will probably look like the old schoolmarm!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 27, 2010, 10:21:10 PM
Here is more 'Neelie Art' from Oct 2009, a month after The Battle of Vickster's Knee and the birth of Neelie  :'(

Can see the defect, the rather lovely bone bruising and I *think* the meniscus!

I am now seeing the OS on the 3rd in the evening as will be less disruptive for work...looking forward already to 3+ hours of driving for what will likely be a 15 minute or so appointment   ::)

I had the letter from #1 OS after last week's consult and he is clear that a cell-based therapy is the best option, so we shall see.  I have had a chat with the HR Director and they will help me with the inevitable battle with the insurance - frankly, I am too busy and tired to deal with them so this is good!!

I hope all of the world's knees, onions and eyes are joyful  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: seerobinbike on October 28, 2010, 01:02:26 AM
Vics...what a pain in the arse all this knee stuff is.  Hoping that you can find some definative answers and most importantly a fix for the pesky knee. 
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on October 28, 2010, 08:04:18 AM
Kris - I hope the OS visit went well! Probably a good start that they realized they're not dealing with a 110 year old. ;)

Vicks - keeping my fingers crossed that the insurance company plays ball this time. It's time Neelie got some real relief.

A big thank you to all the KGers who responded to my request for info on Facebook - what would I do without you guys? :) My friend P now has some real options to choose from, which is fantastic. Her diagnosis was a complete shock (her GP had told her that it was almost certainly nothing serious and the MRI probably wouldn't reveal anything treatable) so it's great that she has some recommendations to work with.

Knee Geeks to the rescue! :)

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on October 28, 2010, 12:11:27 PM
hi all!

no real news here, I can't get in to see Dr. Ginger McYumYum until Nov. 9. The hope is that I will be all better by then on my own (magic?) and won't have to see him, but we'll see. Had to get all new referrals since I have HMO, which is how I found out that I was 110 years old. So for now I'm just grinding through the day (literally I guess, ouch) and trying to rest as much as possible when I get home from work. Oh it's all so familiar!

Vicks- glad to see that Neelie will be getting some attention next week (that sounds like a horrible drive though!) and that you won't have to do the insurance fighting on your own. My OS office/PT has been wonderful about that as well, I keep getting the EOBs saying that last April's PT claims are denied, but they keep resubmitting without me having to ask and with any luck it will eventually get sorted out. (Especially if I end up having to go back to big Brad... oh god can you imagine?)

Sending warm, healing and anti-inflammatory vibes to knees, onions and geeks  :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 28, 2010, 02:44:00 PM
Hi All!!

Kris - what a pain that the knee is being a kneetard. I am sure Dr Ginger YumYum will sort it sounds like something is inflamed in there, hopefully the meds and stuff will settle it down..why are knees such pains???? Hope your Mum is also doing OK. I think of you and her often - keep us posted.

Vicks - sounds the decision has been made in your head for choppage, now the battle for insurance commences. I assume if they won't play ball an NHS referral should work - they can't deny you need it and that its the best option if Mr A is saying so?

Snowy, I hope your chum gets things sorted soon. I have heard of Deepak's surgeon, he is meant to be excellent. I like his name too, like a chick lit novel character.

I'm OK. Knees and onion calm - this week has been the saga of the Lottie-eye. i wasn't happy with the optometrist woman's verdict that all was fine so i paid to see a consultant opthalmic and occuplastic surgeon yesterday. He was Canadian and quite Mr YumYum. Lovely eyes. Anyway, he did some wacky tests including sticking a blue disc on my eyeball whilst I looked at his ear, dilating my pupils and flipping my eyelids back a few times. Verdict - i have early stage giant papillary conjucntivitis. Thats inflammed/allergic eyelids to you and me - caused by lots of contact lens wear for 20 years and I think probably aggravated in recent weeks by two severe episodes of allergy to the puppies (my right eye was agony for 2 days) and then a change in I am not to wear my lenses unless I have to and have steroid drops for 14 days to get the inflammation under control. left alone this would have worsened and eventually I'd be intolerant to my lenses. he is hopeful I can return to them, but MUST reduce my wear time and also might want to consider lasik when things are calm to create a long term solution. He also changed my prescription in my new glasses, and wrote me a letter supporting why and thats been done today - awesome. The giddiness has gone. He isn't even convinced I have astigmatism so took the correction out. I am VERY angry that the opto woman missed this, she flipped my lids too and surely must have known what she was looking for? It was also her who said I had astigmatism (NEVER had this detected before) but how can I when my glasses with a correction for this are so wrong?!!  I have a follow up with him after our hols to see how they look.

So, thats the Lottie eye saga. I am hoping that my 3 health issues have now "come in threes" and might resolve.....

5 days to hols - got loads to get for it. Still 27 degrees out there - wooohooo!  8)

Hugs to all,

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on October 28, 2010, 03:13:47 PM
awww lottie! sending hugs. I have allergy eyes & know how excruciating it can be. At one time it was suspected that my eyes deposited a protein on my contacts that they were intolerant/allergic to (gross) but I am also allergic to "outside" in general.

steroid eyedrops are no joke and I hope you get thru the 2 weeks without the side effects (I get loopiness, nightmares, cranky, etc.) My ophthalmologist said that steroid intake through the eye gets into your system so fast, it makes the effect that much more pronounced.

I agree with your "comes in threes" philosophy, in which case you should be feeling AMAZING soon!

No news on my mom because she tends to rest in the afternoons when I get home from work so I've been worried about calling and bugging her. Will have our regularly-scheduled phonecall on Saturday morning, I will certainly tell you guys what's up when I hear!  :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on October 28, 2010, 05:42:34 PM
Kris - myopic and allergic is no fun is it........ ::) :(  I think its been the build up of proteins and crud and stuff that has set me up for this bout. I am trying not to read scary stories about people with GPC who NEVER tolerate contacts again!! If thats the case I'll be under the laser faster than a speeding ToryBoy in his 911. I usually respond well to steroids - my body seems to love them and I turn into super woman so I hope they have a similar effect on the eyes......just hope my eyes don't get red as my Mum has steroid drops for her glaucoma (plus other drops and things) and she has awful red dry eye a lot of the time. I am dosing with Thera Tears too. I was impressed by canadian-yumyum as he ordered me all preservative free drops in individual vials without me asking so I could avoid the preservatives - this kind of joined up thinking apears lacking in many doctors!! Allergic reaction??? have some more hideous preserved toxins madam! Steroids are bad enough without the added nasties....

Tomorrow I am going to brave driving the new mota in my glasses and go to the it possible to train hard in specs?? I hope they don't fly off!!

Lottie xx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on October 28, 2010, 08:13:38 PM
I wear specs in the gym.  If I remember, I take them off on the stepper, only because I tend to perspire a lot and it makes wiping the drips off my forehead and the end of my nose easier  :-X  Your training is a lot more hardcore than mine, sure you'll be fine though, depends how much you bounce around on the progsters!    :P

I think Neelie is for the chop, at least the scope to explore and harvest if needed presuming the insurers play ball :)  She is currently miserable, not helped by being very busy at work and being chained to a desk - stiff, achy, tender and burny  :(  I am taking pankillers before bed now as she is sorest in the evenings and in bed (ibuprofen and a co-codamol)

From what Mr S's sec says, MACI is available on the NHS for the trial I think, so I will pursue that if the insurers don't play ball next week- I don't know what the process is yet :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on November 02, 2010, 07:06:46 PM
A quick hello and goodbye....

My eyes have been awful, haven't even been able to look at the computer. 5 days into steroid drops and perhaps some improvements. I am hating wearing glasses with a passion but I HAVE to if I have any chance of contacts again. I am also looking into implantable contact lenses.....£3K per eye...oooh yes please madam.....goen off laser - high prescription, random dry eyes = failure and worse problems!!

So, Kris - I hope your Mum is doing OK and you are also doing better with the kneetard. I have been slack with keeping up with people and their progress but I am sending hugs.

Vicks - good luck tomorrow. I should be able to pick up facebook messages so let me know how the consult goes. Will be thinking of you.

Update from Cosmic - Mr Cosmic is back this week, she is well and VERY busy and the knee is generally behaving I think. We are spa-ing when I'm back off my hols!

Tez - hope you are OK, that things have settled a little after big G's funeral and that you and Vicks have a super weekend! Perhaps the sun might shine?  8)
Snowy - an overuse injury!!! Honestly!! I just knew running is fundamnetally bad for you.  :P  Seriously, I hope things settle down and progress conitnues. Foam rolling is awesome, I love it!

Robin - keep up the hard work, hoping the knee is OK and you are also doing OK!

So, I must away to finish my packing. We fly tomorrow at 8.00 am to Fuerteventura so have an early drive to Stansted. Currently its about 28 degrees out there - so I'll be basking in my prescription sunglasses and drinking wine! The villa complex has a gym thankfully, so I plan to bike for an hour each day and weight train too. Happy days!!  ;D

Hugs to all and will see you in 2 weeks!!

Lottie xxxxx

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on November 02, 2010, 07:27:31 PM
Lottie have a wonderful holiday the 28 degrees really apeals to me right now as its been cold, wet and windy up here, poor Vicky had better bring her winter woolies this weekend. I hope the eyes improve and you have a lovely relaxing holiday with lots of fun and the odd glass or 2 of pink wine.
Kris how is you Mum doing? I hope the treatment is not too hard on her and she is copeing well with it all, as for you how is the kneetard? I hope its behaving a bit better and the meds are helping, if not I'm sure Dr Yum Yum will find the problem and with any luck it will be easily fixable.
Vicks not long now till you brave the wildes of Greenock, hope your prepared for the cold and the rain!!
Robin I hope everything is going well with you and the knee is behaving.
Take care all Tez         
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on November 02, 2010, 08:01:47 PM
Hmm, cheers Tez, I need to buy some winter woollies but I do have a brolly ...maybe I'll go away with Lottie instead, 28 deg sounds joyous  :P

Only kidding, I am looking forward to the wilds of Greenock for a few days of R&R (ok, shopping, eating and boozing)!!

My appointment got moved to Thursday afternoon from tomorrow - not as convenient work wise as I'll have to take most of the day off but hey ho.  I need to get this sorted, I am absolutely shattered - not stressed especially (although work is shocking) just so so tired.  I can't actually remember when I last slept the whole night - I think it is knee concern and discomfort that is ultimately to blame.  I am probably going to resort to a sleeping tablet tonight   :-\

Hope all the knees had a happy Halloween and are gearing up for Christmas (or Thanksgiving for those of you Stateside)!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on November 03, 2010, 11:09:11 AM
Oh my LORD Vicky... how could you go and start Christmas talk already? ;) I could maybe be less prepared somehow. Thanksgiving is another nightmare, it's during a busy work time for me so I would like to ignore it altogether... hope you've gotten some sleep and that you get sorted on Thursday. Knee-somnia is the worst so I am sending hugs!

Lottie, hope you are having a wonderful and relaxing holiday with cooperative knee, onion, eyeballs. Prescription sunglasses notwithstanding you should still have a blast! (I hate glasses too but have had mine on for a good straight 3 weeks now)

Tez I hope all is well and that you are giddily preparing for your guest  :) Cold and rain, sounds just like Detroit! So nice to wake up to the sounds of the wind whistling outside... wait, no it's not...

I appreciate everyone's good thoughts! My mom is still doing OK. Starting to have side effects from radiation- trouble swallowing from a burned esophagus and itching like crazy on her back. She's got meds for both, should also be starting some pain meds and sleeping pills this week because of the steroids in her chemo keeping her up all night. Otherwise she is still in great spirits... I couldn't be more impressed, really... allow me to brag for a second and say that my mom is a SUPERSTAR  :)

Kneetard is the same. Still extremely swollen, pain is consistently a 5 or 6 and worse at the end of the day, so not nearly as bad as it got pre-surgery, but enough to be bothersome anyway. Can't wear my stretchy knee sleeve as the swelling makes the knee poke way out of the hole in a most uncomfy and ugly way. Ice is also not bringing much relief. Looking forward to next week, if nothing else maybe I will get some better meds. Have had to work some long days so I am starting to struggle with sitting... hoping to go home and rest at a decent time today.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on November 03, 2010, 06:55:01 PM
Holiday text from Lottie...

27 degrees, sunny hot onions, full of Cajun chicken and beer and now nap time.  Not made gym yet!   8)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on November 04, 2010, 04:37:22 PM
Kris - so glad to hear the continued good news on your mom, though I'm sorry she's starting to suffer side effects. If attitude were enough to kill this thing (and I firmly believe it plays a part) she's surely got a great chance. Sending regular good thoughts and healing vibes her way.

A big thumbs down to the kneetard for not settling down. Hopefully it's just overuse and not enough opportunities to rest lately. When is your appointment with the OS?

Vicks - thinking of you at your appointment today. I hope this offers some real hope for Neelie's future. I think you're doing the right thing - you've tried every possible conservative measure and she's still having a severe detrimental impact on your day-to-day life. Also very much looking forward to hearing how the wild weekend in Scotland goes - you and Tez must make sure there's a camera handy!

Lottie - envy envy envy! Have a wonderful break in the sun.

Cosmic, wherever you are - we miss you! Hope all is well, you're enjoying Mr. Cosmic's visit and the knee continues to make good progress.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on November 04, 2010, 10:42:29 PM
Thanks Snowy :)

Appointment went fine - even the traffic was ok, about an hour each way (not too bad, although the consult was all of 15 minutes lol)

OS is going to scope the knee and have a look, and harvest cells for the MACI if deemed appropriate (which will be 6 weeks later if it happens).  Happy to fall in with my work friendly timings assuming the insurers play ball.  I will speak to his sec about logistics etc and of course the lovely insurance company!  Good to have a plan of action for the wretched knee finally

I have dug the camera out for the trip, so will take some pics of Neelie doing Scottish things like tossing the caber  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on November 08, 2010, 12:27:25 AM
Glad to hear you have a solid plan for moving forward, although boo on the extent of surgery and rehab that's going to be required. When will you know if the insurers are okay with the plan?
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on November 08, 2010, 08:29:42 PM
The insurers were meant to call me with a decision today...unsurprisingly diddly squat heard  ::)

As I am away having a fab time sunning  ;)  myself in Scotland wth Tez, I haven't chased.  Neelie held up really well out shopping in the blistering Glasgow heat with Tezknee which was good :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on November 09, 2010, 03:07:03 AM
As I'm sure anyone who has ever spent any time in the west coast of Scotland will know Vickys description of the blistering heat up here is a slight exageration, in fact as she is a somewhat soft southerner the poor girl has been suffeing in the cold damp weather that us more hardend Scots folk are used to, but she has coped like the star she is without too many moans and complaints ;)
Neelie and Tezknee have been put through their paces today as we have had a marathon shopping spree in the great city of Glasgow, they both seemed to hold up pretty well at the time, though Tezknee has brought me down stairs in the middle of the night as she is now very grumpy, and Neelie seemed to be getting stiffer as Vicky limped herself off to bed earlier, but with any luck a decent night sleep will help, as for me I have found that the best thing to do when my knee wakes me up is to come down stairs take a couple of pain killers and spend some time on line before retuning to bed and hopfully getting back to sleep.
Tomorrow before Vicky flies home to the warmth of London she is being beautified by yours truly, in other wards I am taking her into the salon to do something with her hair, but dont worry I have promised there will be nothing too dramatic done, then again sleep dreprived little old me may get carried away when she is in the chair in front of me ;D 
Take care everybody Tez   
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on November 09, 2010, 03:17:25 AM
Oh, I'm so envious! Sounds like you guys are having a great time. :) That's so awesome that Vicks is getting a Tez haircut before she leaves. We expect before and after pics!  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on November 09, 2010, 10:14:12 AM
Aww! So jealous, I also want a tez hairdo! Glad you ladies are having a good time but sorry about the knees... (jerks)

I also have been doing the wake up and take painkillers song and dance, but thanks to my early morning work schedule, I've basically just been staying up instead of trying to get back to sleep. Of course today's not a nap day either, because I finally get to go see the OS. Kneetard is nice and swollen as to make a proper showing. As usual, just hoping I don't scream, vomit or pass out when he starts poking at it...  ;D will let you guys know as soon as I know anything!

In other news my mom still seems to be doing extremely well. Definitely a bit tired, and still trying to get the proper meds in play to deal with the trouble swallowing... but otherwise super. She appreciates all good wishes, happy thoughts and prayers  :)

will report back after my torture... er, "appointment"
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on November 09, 2010, 05:44:41 PM
Well...the Tez do is FAB  ;D  No more grey and I have fairer streaky bits and neat hair - moppy is no more  :D.  If anyone finds themselves in Greenock, they too should get a Tez-do and also a hair wash from Ian...Wow, scalp massage extraordinaire  8)

Oh and we forgot the photos - I have one of Tez and I looking windswept on Sunday by the Clyde which I'll upload at some point!

Back home, have bought the cold, wet and windy weather with me and left Scotland with clear weather and blue skie s (the least I could do to say thanks a million toTez)  ;D

Neelie does NOT like flying, despite getting an exit row seat, after about half an hour I had lovely stabby pains around the defect despite taking a couple of ibuprofen before boarding  :(  And I've got to do it all again tomorrow and Thursday as I've got to go to Switzerland for work  ::)

Still nothing from the insurance company - quelle surprise! Might get HR to chase up tomorrow

Hope all the knees globally are happy and that the onions are starting to appreciate their winter sunshine  ;)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on November 10, 2010, 02:04:00 AM
Very much looking forward to seeing the photos! I hope there's at least one of the Tez do.

Keeping my fingers crossed that you hear from the insurance folks soon.

In other news, it turns out that I have MRSA (full story on my thread). I think the universe hates me.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on November 10, 2010, 12:37:44 PM
welcome back vicky and I hope you get some insurance news today!

Well as you guys saw on facebook, I have synovitis. There isn't excess fluid in the joint, but the tissues are puffed up to hell. This could be a symptom of something bad/chronic (RA or OA) but Dr's belief is that I just overdid things and gave myself a flare-up, and is treating it as such. He seemed sort of surprised by it and said that usually post-surg you will see this at up to 10 weeks, but I am now 5 months out. So basically I am a weirdo as usual.

He gave me the usual options... pills, PT, shot. I said no to the shot for now because I had such bad reactions with the last 2- basically bedridden for days- and I know it's a new day or whatever but was pretty scared to go down that road again. Will get one later if I have to. Of course when I went over to see my good friend Big Brad to get set up for 3 quick sessions, the insurance company said "absolutely not!" I am persona non grata in the PT world until 2011, as expected. Big Brad was only going to do stretching and pain/swelling modalities anyway, so no big loss there. My OS did sort of think out loud about renting me a "game ready" cryocuff, but at that point he thought he had found a way to get me into PT so he didn't explore it any further. I may call back at some point this week to inquire about that and schedule an injection in case I need it.

Took my second dose of Relafen this morning. I feel kind of sick/gross but it will be worth it if it helps and I can start getting some sleep soon. I was so tired yesterday I went to bed at 8:30. Still woke up every 45 minutes like clockwork. Grrr nasty kneetard!

If you guys could have seen Big Brad's face when I walked in... he was like a kid at Christmas. He didn't do anything that looked like torture to any patients while I was bumming around there for over an hour, so he must not have any worthy patients right now! haha! He got the wind knocked out of his sails real fast when I got denied by insurance but I pretty much skipped out of there!

Hope everyone's knees, onions, superbugs and sexy haircuts are well behaved today!
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on November 10, 2010, 02:44:33 PM
Booo to synovitis and MRSA ... hope both clear up asap :(

Spoke to insurers earlier, well I was kept on hold for 15 minutes while CS spoke to Medical Management and then informed me that I should have an answer today (oh and sorry for not calling by Monday lunchtime as promised)...blimey anyone would think that these procedures were 'experimental' (errr, expensive   ::) ) ... not holding my to airport at 4, so hopefully will call before (I do not want them calling my mobile when I am overseas)

So we shall see...

My sexy haircut is no longer sexy, just fluffy as always (I don't have Tez's patience or dexterity when it comes to blow drying moppy  ;D)

Take care all  :)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on November 10, 2010, 11:33:42 PM
Kris I really hope the new meds help the kneetard to feel better soon, with any luck the the sick feeling will only last a few days and will improve as your body gets used to taking them, the injection sounds pretty nasty if thats the result from previous times I would think twice also about having that done again. As for the tezdo any time you feel like flying me out to you I would happily bring my scissers and go to town on your hair i fact I would really enjoy it ;)
Snowy I hope things are improving with you too and your giving your body a chance to heal by taking things a wee bit easier for a few days, I assume if the meds you are on at the moment dont get rid of the infection and the y have to give you the other antibiotics they would be given to you through a drip so does that mean time spent in hospital or is that something that can be done as an out patient?
Vicky moppy had better not be too moppy after all my hard work ::) And hope the insurance co get back to you soon with some good news, and you get back from your travels safe and sound.
Take care all Tez 
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Vickster on November 11, 2010, 10:39:07 PM
OMG what a couple of days!

Office yesterday (having got back from Scotland around 5pm on Tuesday), then flew to Basel which wasn't as relaxing as I may have liked as my colleague had an issue with her ticket and we got to the gate for boarding rather than having a relaxed coffee in the lounge.  Got to hotel at ~9.45, quick dinner of salad and chips, bed...then my Blackberry buzzed at 3am and could I get back to sleep.  NO!  >:(  Sort of dozed and tossed and turned until the alarm went off at 6am ... stinking headache and the shakes...oh dear!  Quick shower, hair dry and breakfast (sorry, Tez, moppy Moppy), then to client for presentation from 8am to 10.30 (which went ok thankfully).  Then cab to airport and onto plane - all seemed to be going to plan, until they shut the doors and were told that thanks to bad weather in London, we were going to sit there for an hour before pushing back (but we had to stay put just in case an earlier slot came up).  Did take off *only* an hour late, but then we circled above London for a further 30 minutes as the delays hadn't cleared  >:(  Thanks to the weather, it was nice and bumpy for the 15 minute approach (I don't like flying and especially in the rough stuff  :( ) 

I was seriously grouchy by now as had eaten nothing apart from a biscuit for 8 hours.  I made the poor cab driver wait while I grabbed a capuccino and sarnie.  Back to the office to stressed colleagues and then 2 x 75 minute pilot interviews for my big project with a couple of doctors.  I got home at 9.45 (ooh so 10.45 Swiss time, nice 15 hour day) and ate another sarnie  ::) The same tomorrow, for 2 more interviews to finish at about 8.30pm (on a Friday)  Oh and I have been committed to giving another presentation to some senior folks at 4pm on Monday and the slide deck isn't actually in existence.  Bang goes my weekend.  Thank God I had my break with Tez!!

Sometimes I just LOVE my job...NOT  ::)

Neelie is grumpy but no more than expected given the flying and sitting etc and still nothing from the insurers - assume still waiting for the info ref the trial from Mr S's sec ... joy!

Rant over lol!!

Hope everyone else had a more fun day than me!  ;D
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on November 12, 2010, 08:10:47 AM
Vicky so glad we didnt go into mega party mode while you were up here with me, and had a nice relaxing weekend instead so at least you had a chance to recharge your batteries for what sounds like a horrid couple of days.
(((((hugs))))) take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on November 12, 2010, 10:17:41 AM
wow vicky, your story has made me very tired just reading it! Travel is such a hassle.  :o Hope you're managing today and that you don't have to put too much effort in for the stuff Monday.

I have had a pretty lousy couple of days pain-wise, I figure the new NSAID takes a bit to start working anyway. Yesterday I had to do some new employee training. I don't know if I was even making sense half the time... you know those waves of pain that wipe your brain totally clean? Not totally conducive to sounding like a smart and capable person! As of Wednesday night, kneetard's swelling had evolved into a big, weird "bubble" on top of the patella. I managed to get the swelling under control with some elevation and major laziness in the afternoon. Today I am trying a compression bandage. I've got plans to go see a friend tomorrow night for some much needed girl time and I am hoping I won't have to limp all over the place (plus it's an hour's drive).

Happy Friday to all.
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on November 19, 2010, 04:06:37 PM
Hello world!! I'm home in the dark, cold, wet UK.......boooooooooooooooooooooooooo  :'(

Had a great holiday - not a day that the temperature dropped below 21 degrees, was usually around the 25 and largely sunny with the odd shower or cloudy morning. We did lots of exploring, saw parts of the island that we've not seen yet and generally chilled out. I was virtuous the first week and spent several sessions in the tiny complex gym with no air con sweating for Britain but then gave up and spent the second week eating and drinking and getting round. Well, I stopped drinking after Saturday last when I had WAY too much vodka with cranberry. I don't drink much really, and NEVER drink vidka but 4 large Spanish measures after half litre of sangria and a Jagermeister shot....OMFG. I was so ill the next day until about 6pm! However during my drunken frenzy I danced like a wild chick for about 3 hours with no after effects! The knee has held up brilliantly - climbed up and down dunes, up hills, around the volcano on lanzarote, over rocks and stuff on beaches, and generally walking as much as we wanted to. The Euflexxa has without a doubt helped Bob, as does the warmer climate. The onion did not like the dune and beach walking - hideous pain one day and I bought some funky Spanish light weight trainers that saw me through the rest of the trip with funky blue curved soles and white and blue top bits - they were my salvation! My eye is still rancid, on holiday I spent the day in my prescription sunnies and attempted lenses a few evenings but not good. Strangely the night I got hammered I was wearing them and they were perfect for 9 hours! Solution must be drinking lots....I saw consultant again next week so will see what he reckons when he flips back my eyelids again.....happy days...I HATE spectacles!!  :-\  My gym regime starts again tomorrow, but weirdly I have lost weight after the hols - I blame loss of muscle tone and 12 hours of vomiting!

So....everyone else.....Vicks - I hope the insurers are playing ball. You mentioned December for the scope...Xmas twigs!!! Tinsel on the eye holes!!! The trip sounds great fun to the rainy North, and a haircut! I might get on a plane - I am in need of something funky as I feel daggish and lethargic.

Kris - synovitis, ouch ouch ouch. I think my toe gets that as Dr ToryBoy said the lining of the joint gets angry and that causes a chain reaction...and its bad in my small toe joint so the knee must be horrible. How was the girl time trip? Hope the kneetard is starting to settle.....

Tez - I will catch up with your diary and see how things are going for you. Hope you're doing OK and coping with missing Big G. x

Snowy - MRSA - eeeek. I will post on your diary but ye gods what a year. Hopefully the kitties and the cycling are keeping you sane.  ;D

Robin, how are things? Hope you're doing OK too.

I have been in touch with Cosmic over past weeks - I am sure she won't mind me saying she had a bit of a blip with the knee when it gave way at badminton but I think things are on the up again. Graft is appparently fine but she's been under orders to calm down for 2 weeks! I am about to phone her so will see if she can update. I know she thinks of you all often.

I saw a new client this morning - motorbiker who hit a broken down car in the pitch dark as the car hadn't put hazards on. Hit with his face and knees. Amongst other things a tibial plateau fracture that was pinned and plated at the time, but 9 months on he finally got them to scan his other knee as he said it was painful and no one listened. Ripped ACL, clean out - and he now has a TPF still healing and an ACLr done in July and problems in both knees. Ouch.   :-\

Right I am in the midst of house cleaning, so I must away to the bathroom for scrubbing!

Hugs to all

Lottie xxxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on November 19, 2010, 10:45:42 PM
Welcome home Lottie! Sorry the weather isn't cooperating to welcome you back. I have forgotten what warmth feels like - we're having a really stormy November. I'm wearing skiing base layers and winter motorbike gloves on my bike ride to work, and over on the North Shore the mountains are literally caked in snow. (Whistler opens today. I am not thinking about it. I am not thinking about it. I am not thinking about it.)

That sounds like one monster hangover! I had a few of those back during my London days, but thankfully can count the hangovers I've had since moving here on one hand. I don't know if that's because I'm happier and therefore not drinking to forget, or because the microbrews I drink here are all organically brewed and not packed full of chemicals like Stella or Heineken. I've never been able to drink hard booze - I have no tolerance for spirits at all - so I'd have been flat on the floor after sangria, vodka and a Jager bomb.

Great news on the knee! How often is Bob allowed to have his Euflexxa? I hope your eye doc can come up with some solutions to get you back in lenses and out of the specs.

Tell Cosmic we send our love...hopefully she'll have time to stop by for an update one of these days. We miss her. :)

As for me...the MRSA sucks, but at least it explains how tired and run down I've felt for the past couple of months. It will be nice if I finally get my normal energy levels back when it clears up. The good news is that Frank has been doing better lately; I'm starting to see glimpses of normality, although I'm also having to be increasingly careful about managing the PFS. I find that if I really push the knee - say, with a 30 minute run or 4 hour bike ride - I have a bad day the next day, but it settles the following day and I see some real strength gains. Still keeping rehab at about 2 hours a day - an hour on the bike (no swimming for MRSA carriers) and an hour of gym work, mostly weights and running.

I haven't seen my PT in quite a while so I'll probably try and visit him next week just for a checkin. Now that strength is doing so well the two things I need to work on are muscle bulk (quad and calf well-shaped, but small) and muscle response time - there's still a lot of latency on that side. (Tips welcome!)

The kittens are awesome. :) We said a very said goodbye to Sprocket, Kismet and Kaia who have all gone to loving new homes. Freya and Smoky are adjusting to life without their sibs and as permanent members of the family. Laya is still hissy when they approach too fast or try and steal her food, but has adjusted to their presence and is starting to enjoy snuggling with them on the bed and mutual grooming with little Freya. We've also started letting them have the freedom of the condo at night; I've been waking up to find little purring kittens snuggled around my head, which is a quite lovely way to start the day.

Hope everyone else is doing well and that the various knees, aches and pains are having a good day.

103 days till I can ski again. (I am not thinking about Whistler opening day. Really.)
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on November 19, 2010, 10:59:10 PM

103 days will fly by!!!  8) ;D  Good news on the improved Frank - managing PFS is a real game isn't it. Too little and it flares up, too much and it sets you back the day after. I to find that it is usually fine at the time, but I pay the day afterwards, That makes it hard to judge sometimes during the event as to how hard to push.....good news on your running and longer bike rides too.

Bob can have Euflexxa as often as needed, I think probably after Xmas I'll get him a top up shot. Typically the knee(s) have started to ache tonight - I suspect a combination of no Celebrex for over a week, hormones, and no cycling and gym work for a week. Bib really does prefer to be kept moving! So, off to bed and gym in morning for a decent session. I find training in my specs really hard, so I'll be myopic and sweating. I know the gym inside out so can manage fine with no correction as regards machines, mats, weights...but I won't recognise anyone unless they fall over me!  ::)

Right sleep time for knees and onions and eyes....

If I can't get back into contacts for a while/ever I am going to invest in many pairs of glasses. I am currently in Oakleys (robust yet funky), and have seen some bling Prada and some very cool Missoni.  8)  Still undecided about laser or other surgical options as my prescription is termed high. Not sure i want the surgery hassle risk for vision that still needs correction.....

Night all...

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Cosmicsnuffle on November 20, 2010, 01:15:45 PM
Hi Geekers!

I've a break in the "schedule" as Ele's music lesson was cancelled last minute (it's now midday and she's just got out of bed, so she's taking advantage of the spare time in a more teenage way than my manically capitalising on every unexpected free moment).

I've been keeping up with you all intermittently - I won't go to bed until Cam does - so I'm usually tailing him into bed well after I feel the need to be in the Land of Zzzzzzzzzz. I've got into a very bad habit of taking the laptop to bed and trying to catch up online .... usually falling asleep part way through. I wake up wondering whether I've actually sent stuff or just dreamed that I've sent it - and often emails are/posts are written between snoozes..... sometimes I don't realise I've fallen asleep until I wake up!

So Lottie mentioned "The Blip".... it was a bit of a bugger really. Badminton has been great for improving confidence in my knee, and over the last two months-ish I can generally feel the improvement each time I play (give or take the odd "knee off-day"). Two weeks ago I was playing with our friendly group (I am usually the youngest there by at least 20 years!) and was partnered with Annie, an inspirational tiny lady of 70 who is struggling with Parkinsons....making her pretty immobile. I love partnering Annie as it means that tactics become even more important.... but it also means I have to cover all of the court except the area where she stands.

So the knee-dump......I found myself on the floor without warning - and just remember thinking "Feck, here we go again". WB was painful, so I sat out til the end of the session. There is just one court in a church hall with low beamed ceilings - leading to a new court rule of "Beam" when the shuttle hits the roof structures and the point has to be replayed - a superb opportunity when desperate tactics are required ;-). Up to 12 people play so there is plenty of time to socialise and nurse knackered knees.

I was in two minds whether to try to see the specialist, but knowing how impossible it was to get quality specialist time after my initial injury i guessed it would be like nailing jelly to the wall, so decided that seeing my wondrous PT would serve better as an initial assessment.

She identified a weakness in the postero-lateral corner - the biceps femoris tendon which seems to be contending with scarring and overcompensating for quad atrophy... and a problem with the lateral meniscus - most likely a tear.

It seems I have a couple of choices:

1. Put up with it, concentrate on strengthening the postero-lateral corner, risk trashing it the meniscus if I fall again.
2. Get it investigated (arthroscope), means probably trimming more of the meniscus from an area already meniscally-challenged.

No choice really - I've chosen option number 1 ... so I'm getting used to the way it feels and the sort of pain it I can know when I've really stuffed it up ;-).

It's taken a couple of weeks to settle, but I played again last night and it held up OK. I also branched out into Swiss Gym Ball usage of a serious and structured format (in a proper class rather than falling off it in my lounge!).... which (apart from a couple of kneephobic excercises) was fantastic - no impact, work with weights and SUCH a laugh.

Another decision I've made is to step back from TKD and KB for while. I know that many of the guys I train with find it hard to understand but the knee-dump the other week required a reassessment of my aims and goals. I've mentioned previously that my very lovely instructor blamed himself for my initial injury. He has come to terms with the fact that, in class, I am actually being pretty sensible regarding my rehab, and don't take unnecessary risks.....but I feel I don't want to put him through a knee-dump happening in class.

Lottie - your quote "but then gave up and spent the second week eating and drinking and getting round." made me laugh - couldn't work out if you were getting round (with all the eating and drinking) or getting 'round (seeing the sights!).... or maybe the two aren't mutually exclusive!

That's my time up.... pancake making duties for Ele to go to the common for a picnic.... it's never too wet/cold/windy for a picnic!!

love to you all xxxxxxxxx

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Snowy on November 22, 2010, 06:56:38 AM
Cosmic!!!! We missed you. :)

So sorry to hear about the knee dump. Do you have any idea what caused it? Was it a specific movement or landing on the knee with more impact than normal?

I think if I were you I'd be taking exactly the same course of action, although I'd likely also seek the specialist's advice just for confirmation/possible alternatives. It sounds like your PT really knows her stuff and given the diagnosis, I'm not sure what else you could do. More surgery at this point could cause as much harm as good - you'd have to deal with all the stress and hassle of recovery when your leg is still in the final stages of rehab from the ACLr. Better to go conservative for now and see what happens.

I hurt for you on the decision to step back from TKD and KB, but it probably is the right thing to do. I finally got back into the mountains today - on snowshoes, not skis - and it was an interesting experience. I motored up like I'd never been gone - the friend I was with couldn't keep up - but I struggled so badly on the downs that I ended up sliding down the steepest sections on my butt. After a while I suddenly realised that I had no idea why I was doing that. When I did walk down it didn't hurt my knee at all; it was more than strong enough to deal with the sleep slopes and mixed terrain. What was inhibiting me was the fact that my feet sometimes slid a little, and I was very conscious that if one of those slides kept going I wouldn't be fully in control of what was happening to my left leg. In spite of the fact that I probably would have been fine (once I realised that the problem was psychological and not physical, I did walk down a few slopes and had no problems) I just didn't want to risk getting into a situation where I could potentially do damage to the knee. (As I self-analyzed on the trail, my friend stared at me like I'd lost my mind and said "You? Cautious? Really?") It's one of the toughest things about this rehab process - sometimes having to let a few things go, at least in the short term, for the long term good.

Anyways, I'm glad you're doing okay in spite of the setback. I do hope it doesn't cause any major problems with the overall pace of your rehab. I think of you and all the other knee geeks often and hope that all is going well...take care of that knee and enjoy the badminton. (Can't wait till I can play!)

K xxxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on November 22, 2010, 10:12:37 AM
so glad to see you, lottie and cosmic  :)

i will reply properly tomorrow since i will most likely be home for the day after I see Dr. Mc Yum Yum but... HI GUYS!!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on November 22, 2010, 06:58:11 PM
Good evening to all you lovely Cosmic regulars......
Lottie sounds like your holiday was fantastic,  just to have some sun and warmth sounds amazing but I bet it made the cold back home feel even colder,glad the knees held up ok, and if the hot weather really helps them feel better then maybe a wee move to somewher where the weather is warm all year round should be something to think about, and I'm not just saying that to wangle a holiday but it could work, you could offer a nice warm place for us knee geeks to come out to have a holiday and get some pain relief thrown in as a bonus ;)
Cosmic sorry about the knee blip sounds a bit scary, though I think your being a wise woman cutting back back on the TKD and KB for now to see how it goes, it also sounds like your life is as busy as ever but it is so nice to hear from you :). Apart from thi latest problem how has your knee been did you still have any pain or swelling? just trying to work out if the problems I am having are aclr related or wear and tear related.
Snowy yipee for you back on the snow even though you wer'nt sking it must be the next best thing, well I hope its enough for now untill your allowed to ski properly.
Kris good luck with Dr McYum yum tomorrow hope all goes well ,is this the injection your going for? if so I will keep my fingers crossed that you dont have a bad reaction to it this time.
Take care all Tez   
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on November 23, 2010, 05:45:28 PM
Hi geeks,

Well here I am, couch-bound as promised after my shot. It actually felt ok in the beginning because he numbed it so much (I got the spray stuff for the first time, loved it!) but the stiffness and sore, achy feeling is starting to set in now so I am expecting the same "crystallization" reaction I usually get. Will probably be worse tomorrow if history repeats. Yay, something to look forward to.

The big news is that while I was in the OS office, I had a consult with another sports medicine doc in addition to seeing my usual OS. They can't find any structural reason why I continue to have inflammation, and there is no fluid inside the knee. For that reason, my OS feels that I may have RA or some other autoimmune problem. In his words, now that all of the common stuff has been ruled out, it's time to start "hunting for zebras." I guess the fact that I only have one problematic joint is what makes it a difficult case diagnostically. So I went to the lab for a bunch of blood tests. No further appointments scheduled at this time, but once the results come back he is sending me to a rheumatologist.

This has hit me like a ton of bricks and I don't know what to think... when the OS was telling me all of this stuff he was trying to keep me calm, I think, but he was talking WAY too much about statistics and all of this crazy stuff. My ever-helpful mom said "Oh it better not be lupus, that makes you DEAD!" Thanks mom!  :o Also just wanted to let you guys know that my mom is doing awesome- this is her last week of the combo radiation and chemo. Since her blood work looks good, she should be ready to go for round 2 after just a couple of weeks off. She is really extremely tired and has some sickness on and off, but overall doing great.

Lottie, I agree with tez. I think moving to where it's warm is the only solution, and I am strongly considering it too at this point  :) Glad you had such a nice time on your trip, so I will try to stop being so jealous about it!!

You're right that this little bit of inflammation causes "chain reactions," the pain goes crazy from just a tiny bit of tissue. It's nuts! I had a great time on my girls' night, but learned the hard way that the relafen and more than 1 beer do NOT mix... I was sick all day Sunday as if I had been chugging tequila or something. The sports med doc today told me to quit taking them since they aren't helping, so at least that's a problem solved, and I can start medicating myself with holiday-themed beers instead  ;D

And as far as the eyeballs- hope yours are getting squared away! I am now on the 5th straight week of wearing glasses! It's cold here but still not to "the freeze" so my allergies are as-yet uncontrolled. So you are not alone... but of course the kneetard is keeping me from exercise so it's really no big thing for me to wear my specs all the time. I started wearing glasses at 3 months old and didn't get contacts til age 10, so I am definitely used to being a four eyes... lol..

Cosmic, glad to see you are "bouncing" back after your tumble (that's a swiss ball joke, har har!) I think it's pretty smart of you to take a step back from KB and TKD... it's clear that rehab isn't a sprint and taking the extra care of yourself now will pay big dividends later. You'll know when you feel strong enough to return, it might not even take that long. I'm sure it was an awful decision to make, though, so I commend you for it, so much.

Tez I hope you have a fun date with Paul and that everything checks out. I laughed out loud at your comment about sitting all night for the sake of the shoe! I just got the date for our office Christmas party, which is thankfully held in a lounge in the basement of our building. It's more of a billiards/darts place (used to be a cigar lounge before the smoking ban) so there will mercifully be no dancing. I plan to find myself a cozy seat where I can sit all night and hold court... and wear flats... I am just over 5'3" so I will probably get kicked out of the bar when they see my legs dangling in my seat like a toddler!!

talk to you all later... I am going to go have a tiny pity-party for myself while I clean out the DVR!

Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: tez27 on November 23, 2010, 07:32:08 PM
Kris (((((hugs))))) to the kneetard I hope the pain is not too bad this time and you dont have the same reaction as before,
I also hope that whatever the blood tests show up is not anything too serious and is something that is easily treated.
I am so pleased your Mum is doing ok and coping well with her treatment.
Take care Tez
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: Lottiefox on November 23, 2010, 09:55:12 PM

Also hugs to the kneetard - hope the pain reduces rather than gets worse. Great news on your Mum, she is kicking ass and doing awesome from the sound of it!! That really is GOOD news. Don't get too scared about the possible RA theories etc....I am pretty sure you will be negative on such things. I had al the same tests and suggestions but to be honest, i think a knee just gets cranky and gets angry and takes forever to settle down. I am not dissing what the docs say and is it FAR better to get screened for such stuff (and in some ways, if is auto immune at least they can start meds) but I have a sneaking feeling its a kneetard being a kneetard. Almost more frustrating though when the pain is bad. I almost wanted a positive rheumtaoid diagnosis at one stage!!

Agh, the glasses. I am into week 4 now and see the eye doc tomorrow. I am laughing every time I think of him as he is called Don David (a slick Calgary stud muffin) and on hols we found a cheese manufacturer called Don Simon and a cake maker called Don Juan. I keep mixing them al up, with cake-cheese-eyes being my fave description of Mr David. yummy, get those eyelids everted and call me a waffle. Have you ever been tempted by laser correction? I was a firm anti laser until i read about advances over the past 5 years - that even people with moderate myopia (I am -5.50 and -7.00) can get excellent results in the right hands. The right hands is the key - bargain high street places still generate crap results. I am seriously considering it. For those interested watch Philip Schofield (my hero) getting his done at London Vision centre - THE place to go.

Hope everyone else is well,

Hugs to alll

Lottie xxx
Title: Re: Cosmic's ACLr - hmmm cat or gibbon graft??? Paper pants or commando?
Post by: kris_83 on November 24, 2010, 12:27:14 PM
Hi Lottie,
Thank you SO MUCH for talking me off the ledge a bit. It's so easy to get swept up in these things. Until I get more info, I guess it's pointless to be too worried about anything. There were 3 or 4 kinds of tests they were going to run, the only ones I can remember for sure were the rheum factor and lyme disease. So we will see. Honestly it would explain why I am so tired all the time, but I think chronic pain by itself could also be responsible for that! Other than some tingling in my fingers and toes I have no other real symptoms, so... we will see!

I think if you are a candidate for laser, you should totally do it. My mom had hers 3 or 4 years ago and didn't get great results, but she wasn't an "ideal candidate" anyway because of her propensity for scarring. I have a weak eye muscle from being a preemie baby, so laser would not correct all of my problems, I would still need a corrective lens. (I am + 4.5 and + 3.5 with mild astigmatism) Contacts were always good enough for me til a few years ago when my allergies went out of control. It's cold enough to freeze my allergens here today, but tomorrow's forecast is warmer! So still no relief! Leaf and grass mold are the worst for me, so this frost/thaw stuff is a total nightmare.

Still suffering from the cortisone flare so I am sitting on the floor working off of my coffee table today. Fortunately we have the thanksgiving holiday so this is the last workday of the week... I get to spend tomorrow gimping around my mother-in-law's kitchen, maybe